I wouldn’t hold out much hope for justice from the WHO regarding China.
Fraser Bailey
4 years ago
‘First, an international investigation.’
Jeez – how naive can you be? Any such investigation would be stuffed with the corrupt and the incompetent, most of them anti-American. Anyway, it now seems that the corona research at the Wuhan lab was funded, ILLEGALLY, by Fauci with US tax payer’s money under the Obama administration. The fake news legacy media in the UK, and even the US, has not really reported this development yet.
Well it seems to be a fact that the US Public Health Institute or some such sent 3.7 million to the lab in Wuhan for corona virus research in 2015. (The US had decided that it was too dangerous, or illegal, to perform this research in the US).
Apparently, Fauci facilitated this funding, which itself was also illegal. This may explain why he evaded a question on the subject of the Wuhan Lab a few days ago. I am following all this stuff very closely on US news channels and podcasts etc.
It would be fascinating if this ‘synthetic plague’ turns out be a CIA planned and Fauci executed plot? Shades of the Pear Harbour set up of 1941, that some believe in? If it is the case, it should be applauded as an act of Bismarckian audacity, for the greater good.
Precisely. Although I doubt if the CCP will ‘roll over’ so easily as the USSR. However the West should be doing everything it can to help the Chinese masses overthrow their loathsome overlords.
Dave Smith
4 years ago
I am incredulous. China is never going to take the slightest notice of the West or anyone else for that matter. Why should it? We have sent off our productive capacity to China because those who could and had the power thought it would make them very rich. Which it did for a while. All we can do now is to try belatedly to revive our manufacturing in the West. i doubt that will worry China much now it has the whole of the world as a market. Let alone it’s rising middle class. There is one other thing though and that is what should give the whole world pause. There are too many dead now. Both in the West and soon in the rest of the world. That is not something that suing or whatever can erase. Perception is as always going to be all. The only question left for those who have suffered and for those devastated countries is this. Did the virus come into our world by accident or was it deliberate. If the former then that will bring trouble enough but if it is the latter then this world is in the most dangerous place it has been for generations. As always it will be what the people of the world thinks that will be the deciding factor
David Bardell
4 years ago
I doubt this whole process has any legs But I did admire the phrase The pacifying instincts of German Mercantilism
Me too! Preceded by “rein in” usually used for militaristic instincts.
Mark Corby
4 years ago
A wonderful idea, resonant of Cicero, but sadly completely potty! The only thing Communist China may understand is force. They regard ‘us’ as weak and decadent, and who can blame them, after the antics of Clinton, Obama, Blair etc.? As the late Roman Vegetius said “if you wish for peace, prepare for war”. It may come as a shock to the ‘West’ that long years of post war hedonistic enjoyment, and self indulgence are over, but as Goethe said “nothing lasts forever”. To conclude with, and slightly plagiarise, the words of a third and final Roman, Cato the Elder, sometimes addressed as the Censor, “China must be destroyed “!
d.tjarlz
4 years ago
Antibiotic use in animal farming *has* to come under scrutiny. But how to force compliance in the now globalised commons of human health? Where is the culture of commonality that would allow us to see and understand our interdependence?
Damien Pitt
4 years ago
…
Last edited 9 months ago by Damien Pitt
D Glover
4 years ago
China owns a huge sum in US debt. What would happen if the US simply defaulted?
D Glover
4 years ago
China holds a great deal of US debt. What happens if the US simply defaults on it?
K N
4 years ago
One area of concern that I have, not mentioned in this article is that of germ warfare. Many industrialised countries still maintain facilities to experiment on, produce and test germ agents. What’s the position of international law in cases where such experiments go wrong with devastating consequence which goes beyond the international borders of the source country?
Lindsay Gatward
4 years ago
Had Lockdown not been the policy destroying the economy it is unlikely a legal challenge would be considered – A depression which will kill more than the flu as history shows maybe one of the unintended consequencies of the Lockdown policy which would then be seen as the biggest self inflicted wound of all time – The total lose of life from all causes can be a universal measure of how bad this flu was compared to earlier ones, this statistic will be interesting to see and compare to Sweden if they stay on their current course?
Philippe KIEFFER
4 years ago
Whilst can see an argument about compensation for deaths (negligence etc..) I am having more difficulty with the economic consequences of a general lockdown (each country making their own decisions) given that there is no consensus on the necessity, efficacy or terms of it (even on this website)? It has also been suggested that the GFC originated in the US (see Jim O’Neil @ Chatham House) and resulted in global financial contagion etc. How is that different? How is it also different from the 1,200 billion war reparations claims against Germany which remain open (as far Poland and Greece are concerned)?
John McFadyen
4 years ago
Good luck with that one! I don’t disagree but I can’t see it happening without a major spat, and the Russians are cosy with the Chinese right now.
Mark Bevington
4 years ago
If we want to truly learn the lessons of Covid and minimize the risk of a repeat, picking a fight is unlikely to get us there. Who wouldn’t put a wall up against an investigating adversary? And we should be careful what we wish for: it could be any other country where the next pandemic starts. I’m reminded that the fights you come out of best are so often the ones you never get into.
Gary Miles
4 years ago
I’m not sure legal action will get anywhere but change in China’s openness, processes and customs is absolutely essential.
Jerry W
4 years ago
Here is an alternative point of view .. it makes for difficult reading and certainly does not reflect my views, but an uncomfortable amount of it does ring true:
Bill Bolwell
4 years ago
I am not saying SARS2 is manmade, that may be a psyop in itself.
If SARS2 was from a lab in China, then it originally came from a the USA, so that storyline goes, and it also had other countries involved. I have seen footage of Trump saying he would cut off the funding, initiated by Obama, to the Chinese Wuhan lab. So how can USA sue China, when the USA was involved in it themselves, if that where SARS2 came from?
This whole thing is psyop, of some description.
Our leaders, in democratic countries, are not supposed to be despotic tyrants, they are there to carry out the will of the people. I personally do not believe they have the right to take away our freedom.
Oliver Wright
3 years ago
Hear, hear, bloody hear!
Rex Lombardo
4 years ago
What about the obesity and diabetes caused by the export of American fast food chains like Pizza Hut and MacDonalds that now blight all Chinese cities? Perhaps China might like to claim for all the unhealthy crap that’s come their way from the west.
Nobody’s forced to eat either of those. And say what you like about fast food from the US–at least it doesn’t contain bats.
lyvennet
4 years ago
Can someone please enlighten me. What exactly is China and the WHO supposed to have done wrong? I have not seen this explained anywhere and I have been looking. I have been keeping a timeline of the virus events for a couple of months or so.
3 January, 2020 China informs WHO and the US that there is an unknown virus on the loose. On 24 January 2020 Trump Tweeted “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!” 26 January, 2020 onwards USA, UK and others send planes to evacuate nationals for Wuhan and China generally. There can be do doubt that the virus hitched a ride.
OK so far?
March, 10.2020 The The BLAME GAME starts Trump emphatically blamed China for the coronavirus pandemic using the term “Chinese virus.” The world is paying a very big price for that they did,” Trump said, referring to his claim that Chinese officials did not fully share information sooner about the coronavirus outbreak after it began in China. “It could have been stopped right where it came from, China,” Trump said at a White House news conference. He argued that American officials would have been able to act faster if China’s government had fully shared information about the outbreak, which began around the city of Wuhan. “It would have been much better if we had known about this a number of months earlier.
Now it is head shaking time. He has had two months to do what he he thinks he should have done.
It’s the countdown to the Third Opium War. A war that has to be fought in order to decide, once and for all, who rules the planet, The West or China? A Darwinian necessity if you like.
If you think that China would co-operate in any way shape or form with an international investigation, then you are dreaming.
With the right amount of force…..maybe
I wouldn’t hold out much hope for justice from the WHO regarding China.
‘First, an international investigation.’
Jeez – how naive can you be? Any such investigation would be stuffed with the corrupt and the incompetent, most of them anti-American. Anyway, it now seems that the corona research at the Wuhan lab was funded, ILLEGALLY, by Fauci with US tax payer’s money under the Obama administration. The fake news legacy media in the UK, and even the US, has not really reported this development yet.
I see the tin foil hat brigade have even infiltrated unherd!
Well it seems to be a fact that the US Public Health Institute or some such sent 3.7 million to the lab in Wuhan for corona virus research in 2015. (The US had decided that it was too dangerous, or illegal, to perform this research in the US).
Apparently, Fauci facilitated this funding, which itself was also illegal. This may explain why he evaded a question on the subject of the Wuhan Lab a few days ago. I am following all this stuff very closely on US news channels and podcasts etc.
It would be fascinating if this ‘synthetic plague’ turns out be a CIA planned and Fauci executed plot? Shades of the Pear Harbour set up of 1941, that some believe in?
If it is the case, it should be applauded as an act of Bismarckian audacity, for the greater good.
You want to hope this is not a Chinese rehearsal for the deadly bioweapon ,the people of China need to take there country from the CCP members .
Precisely. Although I doubt if the CCP will ‘roll over’ so easily as the USSR.
However the West should be doing everything it can to help the Chinese masses overthrow their loathsome overlords.
I am incredulous. China is never going to take the slightest notice of the West or anyone else for that matter. Why should it?
We have sent off our productive capacity to China because those who could and had the power thought it would make them very rich. Which it did for a while.
All we can do now is to try belatedly to revive our manufacturing in the West. i doubt that will worry China much now it has the whole of the world as a market. Let alone it’s rising middle class.
There is one other thing though and that is what should give the whole world pause. There are too many dead now. Both in the West and soon in the rest of the world.
That is not something that suing or whatever can erase. Perception is as always going to be all. The only question left for those who have suffered and for those devastated countries is this.
Did the virus come into our world by accident or was it deliberate.
If the former then that will bring trouble enough but if it is the latter then this world is in the most dangerous place it has been for generations. As always it will be what the people of the world thinks that will be the deciding factor
I doubt this whole process has any legs
But I did admire the phrase
The pacifying instincts of German Mercantilism
Me too! Preceded by “rein in” usually used for militaristic instincts.
A wonderful idea, resonant of Cicero, but sadly completely potty!
The only thing Communist China may understand is force. They regard ‘us’ as weak and decadent, and who can blame them, after the antics of Clinton, Obama, Blair etc.?
As the late Roman Vegetius said “if you wish for peace, prepare for war”.
It may come as a shock to the ‘West’ that long years of post war hedonistic enjoyment, and self indulgence are over, but as Goethe said “nothing lasts forever”.
To conclude with, and slightly plagiarise, the words of a third and final Roman, Cato the Elder, sometimes addressed as the Censor, “China must be destroyed “!
Antibiotic use in animal farming *has* to come under scrutiny. But how to force compliance in the now globalised commons of human health? Where is the culture of commonality that would allow us to see and understand our interdependence?
…
China owns a huge sum in US debt. What would happen if the US simply defaulted?
China holds a great deal of US debt.
What happens if the US simply defaults on it?
One area of concern that I have, not mentioned in this article is that of germ warfare. Many industrialised countries still maintain facilities to experiment on, produce and test germ agents. What’s the position of international law in cases where such experiments go wrong with devastating consequence which goes beyond the international borders of the source country?
Had Lockdown not been the policy destroying the economy it is unlikely a legal challenge would be considered – A depression which will kill more than the flu as history shows maybe one of the unintended consequencies of the Lockdown policy which would then be seen as the biggest self inflicted wound of all time – The total lose of life from all causes can be a universal measure of how bad this flu was compared to earlier ones, this statistic will be interesting to see and compare to Sweden if they stay on their current course?
Whilst can see an argument about compensation for deaths (negligence etc..) I am having more difficulty with the economic consequences of a general lockdown (each country making their own decisions) given that there is no consensus on the necessity, efficacy or terms of it (even on this website)? It has also been suggested that the GFC originated in the US (see Jim O’Neil @ Chatham House) and resulted in global financial contagion etc. How is that different? How is it also different from the 1,200 billion war reparations claims against Germany which remain open (as far Poland and Greece are concerned)?
Good luck with that one! I don’t disagree but I can’t see it happening without a major spat, and the Russians are cosy with the Chinese right now.
If we want to truly learn the lessons of Covid and minimize the risk of a repeat, picking a fight is unlikely to get us there. Who wouldn’t put a wall up against an investigating adversary? And we should be careful what we wish for: it could be any other country where the next pandemic starts. I’m reminded that the fights you come out of best are so often the ones you never get into.
I’m not sure legal action will get anywhere but change in China’s openness, processes and customs is absolutely essential.
Here is an alternative point of view .. it makes for difficult reading and certainly does not reflect my views, but an uncomfortable amount of it does ring true:
I am not saying SARS2 is manmade, that may be a psyop in itself.
If SARS2 was from a lab in China, then it originally came from a the USA, so that storyline goes, and it also had other countries involved. I have seen footage of Trump saying he would cut off the funding, initiated by Obama, to the Chinese Wuhan lab. So how can USA sue China, when the USA was involved in it themselves, if that where SARS2 came from?
This whole thing is psyop, of some description.
Our leaders, in democratic countries, are not supposed to be despotic tyrants, they are there to carry out the will of the people. I personally do not believe they have the right to take away our freedom.
Hear, hear, bloody hear!
What about the obesity and diabetes caused by the export of American fast food chains like Pizza Hut and MacDonalds that now blight all Chinese cities? Perhaps China might like to claim for all the unhealthy crap that’s come their way from the west.
Nobody’s forced to eat either of those. And say what you like about fast food from the US–at least it doesn’t contain bats.
Can someone please enlighten me. What exactly is China and the WHO supposed to have done wrong? I have not seen this explained anywhere and I have been looking. I have been keeping a timeline of the virus events for a couple of months or so.
3 January, 2020 China informs WHO and the US that there is an unknown virus on the loose.
On 24 January 2020 Trump Tweeted “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
26 January, 2020 onwards USA, UK and others send planes to evacuate nationals for Wuhan and China generally. There can be do doubt that the virus hitched a ride.
OK so far?
March, 10.2020 The The BLAME GAME starts Trump emphatically blamed China for the coronavirus pandemic using the term “Chinese virus.” The world is paying a very big price for that they did,” Trump said, referring to his claim that Chinese officials did not fully share information sooner about the coronavirus outbreak after it began in China. “It could have been stopped right where it came from, China,” Trump said at a White House news conference. He argued that American officials would have been able to act faster if China’s government had fully shared information about the outbreak, which began around the city of Wuhan. “It would have been much better if we had known about this a number of months earlier.
Now it is head shaking time. He has had two months to do what he he thinks he should have done.
It’s the countdown to the Third Opium War.
A war that has to be fought in order to decide, once and for all, who rules the planet, The West or China?
A Darwinian necessity if you like.