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August 28, 2023 - 10:00am
Last week, the New York Times reported that gender surgeries almost tripled between 2016 and 2019. That includes over 27,000 operations to amputate or simulate breasts, over 16,000 genital surgeries, and over 6,000 facial surgeries. Almost 8% of patients undergoing gender surgeries were 18 or under.
These numbers, researchers point out, are almost certainly an undercount.
The World Professional Association for Transgender Health’s latest standards of care lists 54 potentially “gender-affirming” operations patients might undergo — from hairline advancement to upper lip shortening to calf implants. Brow lines and jaw lines can be reduced or augmented. Nipples can be kept or removed. The penis can stay but a neovagina, lined with colon tissue, can be added. Patients can even opt to cut everything off and be as smooth and unreal as a Ken doll.
Since such cosmetic interventions can only imitate the appearance of the opposite sex, that means there’s no end to the procedures patients and their unscrupulous surgeons can pursue. Sure, you’ll never become, but you can always keep trying!
This is where gender dysphoria starts to look a lot like body dysmorphia. Address one “problem area”, and the dysphoria doesn’t resolve: it migrates. Patients and surgeons end up playing a macabre game of whack-a-mole. As dysphoria migrates across the body, new markets for surgical intervention open up. And because surgery will never turn a male into a female or a female into a male, the market for body modification is bottomless.
Plastic surgeons are meant to screen out patients who have impossible expectations for cosmetic interventions. But take away the impossible expectations and transition falls apart.
Some of these surgeries have horrifying complication rates, like phalloplasties. But medical complications can be reframed as opportunities, too. When Vanderbilt University’s Clinic for Transgender Health opened its doors in 2018, one physician pointed out: “Female-to-male bottom surgeries… these are huge money-makers.”
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SubscribeWhy are these surgeons not looking at the world from behind bars?
It does seem alarmingly at odds with the Hippocratic Oath
Because what you apparently pretend or imagine is real and relevant about these sugeries is not.
The binary is real whether you acknowledge it or not. There is a public service being done here. The mentally ill are being rendered sterile, so it’s “evolution in action.”
It is a bimodal distribution which is real, not a binary, and the genes which are associated with being transgender like those associated with being gay occur in a steady state rate throughout the whole population. Transgender people have no mental illness, but have a physical birth defect.
I thought it was there ineffable ‘gender identity’ which only they can see.
You people are as dangerous as Mengele, and should suffer the same consequences for your evil actions.
It’s a genetic defect?? Does it run in families? Why is increasing so drastically, above all amongst teenage girls?
Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria: ROGD
Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria: ROGD
Unfortunately, the supposed “bimodal” distribution of sex as a non-binary attribute is pure pseudoscience. Aka hooey.
For a true bimodal distriburion of a physical attribute, height is a good example: in two overlapping curves, one for for females and one for males. But in the overlap area of short males with tall females, the males are no less male, and the females are no less female.
As for genetics, there is no such thing as “transgender” or “gay” genes: more pseudoscience / science fiction.
Kids brainwashed into the belief they were “born into the wrong body”, because they display gender non-conforming behaviour, tend to have high rates of autism and/or latent homosexuality. They are more likely to be fostered, adopted or living in care homes, and to suffer high rates of emotional and /or physical abuse and neglect, and sexual abuse, by supposed caregivers.
Their resulting distress is all too easily exploited by the unscrupulous gender cult.
I thought it was there ineffable ‘gender identity’ which only they can see.
You people are as dangerous as Mengele, and should suffer the same consequences for your evil actions.
It’s a genetic defect?? Does it run in families? Why is increasing so drastically, above all amongst teenage girls?
Unfortunately, the supposed “bimodal” distribution of sex as a non-binary attribute is pure pseudoscience. Aka hooey.
For a true bimodal distriburion of a physical attribute, height is a good example: in two overlapping curves, one for for females and one for males. But in the overlap area of short males with tall females, the males are no less male, and the females are no less female.
As for genetics, there is no such thing as “transgender” or “gay” genes: more pseudoscience / science fiction.
Kids brainwashed into the belief they were “born into the wrong body”, because they display gender non-conforming behaviour, tend to have high rates of autism and/or latent homosexuality. They are more likely to be fostered, adopted or living in care homes, and to suffer high rates of emotional and /or physical abuse and neglect, and sexual abuse, by supposed caregivers.
Their resulting distress is all too easily exploited by the unscrupulous gender cult.
It is a bimodal distribution which is real, not a binary, and the genes which are associated with being transgender like those associated with being gay occur in a steady state rate throughout the whole population. Transgender people have no mental illness, but have a physical birth defect.
Pop onto X and if you follow certain accounts you can choose to see graphic evidence of the awful results of these surgeries.
A side issue, here, but does Musk now own the rights to the letter X? It’s getting a bit scary…
A side issue, here, but does Musk now own the rights to the letter X? It’s getting a bit scary…
The binary is real whether you acknowledge it or not. There is a public service being done here. The mentally ill are being rendered sterile, so it’s “evolution in action.”
Pop onto X and if you follow certain accounts you can choose to see graphic evidence of the awful results of these surgeries.
Because it’s a free country, what they are doing is perfectly legal, and people can spend their money on whatever they want.
AP News:
“In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.”
So, a fraction of 1% regret sufficiently to detransition.
Problem is that many don’t return to the hospital or clinician to express regret, they just silently stop believing in the framework that led them to modify their bodies and move on as best they can. And what would a “reversal” surgery even entail? You cannot regrow breasts, a p***s, ovaries, uteri, testicles or facial bones; unsew a vagina; reskin a c******s. You can remove implants and the neophallus, I guess, but this is relevant for only a subset of patients. For many the last thing they want is to go under the knife again, along with the risk that always comes with any surgery and anaesthesia, and to be vulnerable to the same people who harmed them to begin with. There is also a recurring pattern of clinicians throwing their hands in the air and telling these patients that since they’re not seeking trans-related care, they can no longer be helped by them or funded by insurance – I very much wonder whether such outcomes are being recorded by all hospitals and clinics, or whether they are ignored, or described (as mentioned in the article) as part of a continuing “gender journey”.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with the methodological and statistical gymnastics employed by much trans-related research. Some of it is obvious even to a layman, some of it is clearly laid bare by the sort of peer review that should have been done prior to publishing.
We do not allow surgeons to amputate the limbs of apotemnophiliacs even if they express a very strong and distressing sense of an inner “amputee identity”.
There will probably always be individuals that carry out amputations and castrations on themselves and each other, but it’s reasonable to say that surgery to damage a healthy body – especially this destructively – should not be labelled “healthcare” nor covered by insurance
AP has been a cheerleader for this sick ideology for years now. I somehow doubt that this unnamed ‘review’ is anything but trans propaganda.
Ha!
You just made that up.
Whatever.
What’s made up is this alleged ‘review’.
The NY Times just said last week:
“The number of people who detransition or discontinue gender treatments is not precisely known. Small studies with differing definitions and methodologies have found rates ranging from 2 to 30 percent. In a new, unpublished survey of more than 700 young people who had medically transitioned, Canadian researchers found that 16 percent stopped taking hormones or tried to reverse their effects after five years.”
What’s made up is this alleged ‘review’.
The NY Times just said last week:
“The number of people who detransition or discontinue gender treatments is not precisely known. Small studies with differing definitions and methodologies have found rates ranging from 2 to 30 percent. In a new, unpublished survey of more than 700 young people who had medically transitioned, Canadian researchers found that 16 percent stopped taking hormones or tried to reverse their effects after five years.”
Ha!
You just made that up.
Whatever.
Legal does not translate to moral.
It may be legal in some states for a 50 yr old to have sex with a 16 yr old, that does not make it moral.
Nobody who wants to do this to themselves, particularly given the health impacts, can possibly be mentally well.
Certainly, no child is capable or consent to this evil.
Nobody under 18 should be treated or operated on… agreed.
But what adults do with their body is their business.
As far as morality is concerned, well, morality is in the eye of the beholder.
Nobody should be imposing their morality on another adult.
Agreed that no-one under 18 should have so-called “gender ressignment” surgery — or be prescribed puberty-blocking hormones (unless to delay abnormally early puberty), nor cross-sex hormones which typically follow puberty blockers. (The same drugs are still being used for “chemical castration” of a generation of gay young people under the “trans” false flag, as were used when it was illegal to be gay. This is the true “conversion therapy”.)
Children, especially already distressed, gender non-conforming children, also need to be protected from indoctrination, particularly at school, from the proliferating abundance of lies and disinformation — however incoherent and contradictory — spread by the gender ideology cult.
Agreed that no-one under 18 should have so-called “gender ressignment” surgery — or be prescribed puberty-blocking hormones (unless to delay abnormally early puberty), nor cross-sex hormones which typically follow puberty blockers. (The same drugs are still being used for “chemical castration” of a generation of gay young people under the “trans” false flag, as were used when it was illegal to be gay. This is the true “conversion therapy”.)
Children, especially already distressed, gender non-conforming children, also need to be protected from indoctrination, particularly at school, from the proliferating abundance of lies and disinformation — however incoherent and contradictory — spread by the gender ideology cult.
Nobody under 18 should be treated or operated on… agreed.
But what adults do with their body is their business.
As far as morality is concerned, well, morality is in the eye of the beholder.
Nobody should be imposing their morality on another adult.
I agree. We live in a free country and adults should be allowed to change their body anyway they choose, as long as taxpayers don’t have to foot the bill. Children should not be allowed to undergo these life alteration surgeries either. I am very skeptical of a study, however, that says only 1% of patients express regret.
I disagree. These surgeries are not purely self-regarding acts. These actions harm all of society by perpetuating gender fraud and sterilisation.
I disagree. These surgeries are not purely self-regarding acts. These actions harm all of society by perpetuating gender fraud and sterilisation.
By this logic, people should be allowed to submit to cannibalism based on advanced consent. I suspect the fraction of regret would be even lower than 1%!
And what are the figures for “lost to follow-up”? Much higher than one percent.
Desisters and detransitioners rarely return to gender clinics, who very seldom try to find out what happened to them. Keeping detransition statistics would damage the proselytising gender cause and recruitment rate. All that matters is sustaining profits.
Problem is that many don’t return to the hospital or clinician to express regret, they just silently stop believing in the framework that led them to modify their bodies and move on as best they can. And what would a “reversal” surgery even entail? You cannot regrow breasts, a p***s, ovaries, uteri, testicles or facial bones; unsew a vagina; reskin a c******s. You can remove implants and the neophallus, I guess, but this is relevant for only a subset of patients. For many the last thing they want is to go under the knife again, along with the risk that always comes with any surgery and anaesthesia, and to be vulnerable to the same people who harmed them to begin with. There is also a recurring pattern of clinicians throwing their hands in the air and telling these patients that since they’re not seeking trans-related care, they can no longer be helped by them or funded by insurance – I very much wonder whether such outcomes are being recorded by all hospitals and clinics, or whether they are ignored, or described (as mentioned in the article) as part of a continuing “gender journey”.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with the methodological and statistical gymnastics employed by much trans-related research. Some of it is obvious even to a layman, some of it is clearly laid bare by the sort of peer review that should have been done prior to publishing.
We do not allow surgeons to amputate the limbs of apotemnophiliacs even if they express a very strong and distressing sense of an inner “amputee identity”.
There will probably always be individuals that carry out amputations and castrations on themselves and each other, but it’s reasonable to say that surgery to damage a healthy body – especially this destructively – should not be labelled “healthcare” nor covered by insurance
AP has been a cheerleader for this sick ideology for years now. I somehow doubt that this unnamed ‘review’ is anything but trans propaganda.
Legal does not translate to moral.
It may be legal in some states for a 50 yr old to have sex with a 16 yr old, that does not make it moral.
Nobody who wants to do this to themselves, particularly given the health impacts, can possibly be mentally well.
Certainly, no child is capable or consent to this evil.
I agree. We live in a free country and adults should be allowed to change their body anyway they choose, as long as taxpayers don’t have to foot the bill. Children should not be allowed to undergo these life alteration surgeries either. I am very skeptical of a study, however, that says only 1% of patients express regret.
By this logic, people should be allowed to submit to cannibalism based on advanced consent. I suspect the fraction of regret would be even lower than 1%!
And what are the figures for “lost to follow-up”? Much higher than one percent.
Desisters and detransitioners rarely return to gender clinics, who very seldom try to find out what happened to them. Keeping detransition statistics would damage the proselytising gender cause and recruitment rate. All that matters is sustaining profits.
It does seem alarmingly at odds with the Hippocratic Oath
Because what you apparently pretend or imagine is real and relevant about these sugeries is not.
Because it’s a free country, what they are doing is perfectly legal, and people can spend their money on whatever they want.
AP News:
“In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.”
So, a fraction of 1% regret sufficiently to detransition.
Why are these surgeons not looking at the world from behind bars?
I’m yet to be able to fathom how actual human beings can wake up every morning and perform these surgeries. I can read about it, I can even see pictures of it (not recommended), but I can’t imagine actually doing it to someone or having it done to yourself. It is something straight out of a literal hell-on-earth scenario, like stitching a mouth closed or turning your skin inside out. These people must actually be imbued with some supernatural evil. That’s all I can think of.
MONEY! Lots and lots of MONEY.
Plus, in certain social circles it would make them celebrities, heroes even. Social status.
Never mind they are just greedy monsters seeking to pay for their next Land Rover.
“Gender reassignment” surgery is apparently more complex and difficult than open heart surgery. But no special skill is required from or, apparently, possessed by, these surgeons.
“Gender reassignment” surgery is apparently more complex and difficult than open heart surgery. But no special skill is required from or, apparently, possessed by, these surgeons.
They only care what their peers think of them. No ones’ opinions, even of former patients, matters.
Almost all the dominant institutions in the West either
are or are rapidly becoming psychopathic. In their non-work lives the people running them may be normal, but the institutions respond to incentives and the incentives demand psychopathic action toward everyone else.
Apply that paradigm to this and a hundred other things that you cannot understand, and it will all make sense.
The most well-known “gender reassignment” surgeons are themselves trans-identified males. They can make lots of money from practising the same surgery that represented — possibly — their own perceived liberation: or take out their own regrets on others.
MONEY! Lots and lots of MONEY.
Plus, in certain social circles it would make them celebrities, heroes even. Social status.
Never mind they are just greedy monsters seeking to pay for their next Land Rover.
They only care what their peers think of them. No ones’ opinions, even of former patients, matters.
Almost all the dominant institutions in the West either
are or are rapidly becoming psychopathic. In their non-work lives the people running them may be normal, but the institutions respond to incentives and the incentives demand psychopathic action toward everyone else.
Apply that paradigm to this and a hundred other things that you cannot understand, and it will all make sense.
The most well-known “gender reassignment” surgeons are themselves trans-identified males. They can make lots of money from practising the same surgery that represented — possibly — their own perceived liberation: or take out their own regrets on others.
I’m yet to be able to fathom how actual human beings can wake up every morning and perform these surgeries. I can read about it, I can even see pictures of it (not recommended), but I can’t imagine actually doing it to someone or having it done to yourself. It is something straight out of a literal hell-on-earth scenario, like stitching a mouth closed or turning your skin inside out. These people must actually be imbued with some supernatural evil. That’s all I can think of.
Some gay male friends of mine were involved in commemoration ceremonies for Alan Turing organised by the local ‘Pride’ organisation, which includes many ‘trans’ people.
We were talking about the cruelty of the chemical castration punishment meted out to Turing.
When I asked what they thought of young gay male teenagers being encouraged to go down a route of hormone blockers and oestrogen treatment, answer came there none.
My daughter uses her fluent Arabic as a volunteer for an anti-FGM charity. I asked her why she doesn’t also campaign against transmengelism, but answer came there none.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=transmengele
Don’t let them forget that “puberty blockers” are the same drugs as given to Turing. Designed to block the release of testosterone (they work on oestrogens too of course) to minimise sexual drive and also stop puberty. Ghastly drugs.
No, Turing was not given any puberty blockers — they did not exist during the time frame in question.
The drugs referred to and used as puberty blockers are not designed and created for that purpose. They were developed for reproductive cancers in the middle-aged, particularly prostate cancer.
They’ve been used off-label to utilise the side effects – interrupting puberty in the young and chemical castration in sexual criminals.
You are completely incorrect. They were developed to treat precocious puberty, what you are claiming are side effects are the intended effects. They were later used for gender dysphoria, certain cancers, and for endometriosis. They have no negative side effects known to be caused by the drugs either individually or as a class of drug. When used for gender dysphoria, they have the identical dosage and mechanism of action as that tested for efficacy and safety as when they were first developed and approved in the late 70’s and early 80’s.
For my information can you cite the studies please? It seems to be opinion versus opinion and I would like to see real evidence before making a judgement. I will search Pubmed but if you already know the literature you might be able to point us to the correct information.
https://books.google.com/books?id=FjKfqkaKkAAC&pg=PA514#v=onepage&q&f=false 1975
Patented in 1975, in trials for 11 years.
https://www.drugs.com/newdrugs/arbor-pharmaceuticals-llc-announces-fda-approval-triptodur-triptorelin-4554.html
https://www.webmd.com/children/what-are-puberty-blockers#1-3
“Safe and effective”
What you won’t do is find anything backing you up.
Lots of sources besides pubmed.
I have replied with several links, and Unherd has seen fit to not post it. Why don’t you try finding anything to excuse as being factual what you have claimed?
Sometimes, it takes a while for posts to appear.
Sometimes, it takes a while for posts to appear.
https://books.google.com/books?id=FjKfqkaKkAAC&pg=PA514#v=onepage&q&f=false 1975
Patented in 1975, in trials for 11 years.
https://www.drugs.com/newdrugs/arbor-pharmaceuticals-llc-announces-fda-approval-triptodur-triptorelin-4554.html
https://www.webmd.com/children/what-are-puberty-blockers#1-3
“Safe and effective”
What you won’t do is find anything backing you up.
Lots of sources besides pubmed.
I have replied with several links, and Unherd has seen fit to not post it. Why don’t you try finding anything to excuse as being factual what you have claimed?
Thanks. Helpful. When you say there are no negative side effects, are you talking solely about physical side effects? My impression is that the controversy about teenage use of puberty blockers centres mostly on the psychological impact (in that it tends to reinforce the new gender identity which arguably might otherwise disappear with puberty in many cases) but also that this is new territory and no one is too sure of the long term physical side effects of blocking puberty. Any clarification would be useful.
Objections to puberty blockers have no factual center. Puberty blockers for gender dysphoric youth have been in general use for 20 years, they are not new.
Objections to puberty blockers have no factual center. Puberty blockers for gender dysphoric youth have been in general use for 20 years, they are not new.
No side effects? What about osteoporosis, reduced brain function and infertility? Puberty is a normal part of human development. Convincing prepubescent children to take these noxious drugs is beyond evil.
For my information can you cite the studies please? It seems to be opinion versus opinion and I would like to see real evidence before making a judgement. I will search Pubmed but if you already know the literature you might be able to point us to the correct information.
Thanks. Helpful. When you say there are no negative side effects, are you talking solely about physical side effects? My impression is that the controversy about teenage use of puberty blockers centres mostly on the psychological impact (in that it tends to reinforce the new gender identity which arguably might otherwise disappear with puberty in many cases) but also that this is new territory and no one is too sure of the long term physical side effects of blocking puberty. Any clarification would be useful.
No side effects? What about osteoporosis, reduced brain function and infertility? Puberty is a normal part of human development. Convincing prepubescent children to take these noxious drugs is beyond evil.
True: principally Leuprorelin (Lucrin).
Also sold under the brand name Lupron
Also sold under the brand name Lupron
You are completely incorrect. They were developed to treat precocious puberty, what you are claiming are side effects are the intended effects. They were later used for gender dysphoria, certain cancers, and for endometriosis. They have no negative side effects known to be caused by the drugs either individually or as a class of drug. When used for gender dysphoria, they have the identical dosage and mechanism of action as that tested for efficacy and safety as when they were first developed and approved in the late 70’s and early 80’s.
True: principally Leuprorelin (Lucrin).
Alan Turing was way past puberty and in his early 40s when in 1952 he was prosecuted for having gay sex. He was punished by “chemical castration”: ie by being forced to take Diethylsilbestrol (DES), in the same class of oestrogen drugs still used as a follow-on from puberty blockers. (Also used for men to treat prostate cancer, with a range of adverse side effects). Turing killed himself two years later.
The drugs referred to and used as puberty blockers are not designed and created for that purpose. They were developed for reproductive cancers in the middle-aged, particularly prostate cancer.
They’ve been used off-label to utilise the side effects – interrupting puberty in the young and chemical castration in sexual criminals.
Alan Turing was way past puberty and in his early 40s when in 1952 he was prosecuted for having gay sex. He was punished by “chemical castration”: ie by being forced to take Diethylsilbestrol (DES), in the same class of oestrogen drugs still used as a follow-on from puberty blockers. (Also used for men to treat prostate cancer, with a range of adverse side effects). Turing killed himself two years later.
Stop conflating what was imposed on Alan Turing with free will.
A ridiculous argument.
No, Turing was not given any puberty blockers — they did not exist during the time frame in question.
Stop conflating what was imposed on Alan Turing with free will.
A ridiculous argument.
“answer came there none.” <– That is because your predicate, “young gay male teenagers being encouraged to go down a route of hormone blockers and oestrogen treatment”, is not “real”, it does not occur often enough to have any relevance.
File this one under “Never Happened”!
Yup, that’s what happens to inconvenient opposition to a party line: break out the airbrush…
You believe that nonsense?!?! Man, you people are gullible!
You believe that nonsense?!?! Man, you people are gullible!
Yup, that’s what happens to inconvenient opposition to a party line: break out the airbrush…
My daughter uses her fluent Arabic as a volunteer for an anti-FGM charity. I asked her why she doesn’t also campaign against transmengelism, but answer came there none.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=transmengele
Don’t let them forget that “puberty blockers” are the same drugs as given to Turing. Designed to block the release of testosterone (they work on oestrogens too of course) to minimise sexual drive and also stop puberty. Ghastly drugs.
“answer came there none.” <– That is because your predicate, “young gay male teenagers being encouraged to go down a route of hormone blockers and oestrogen treatment”, is not “real”, it does not occur often enough to have any relevance.
File this one under “Never Happened”!
Some gay male friends of mine were involved in commemoration ceremonies for Alan Turing organised by the local ‘Pride’ organisation, which includes many ‘trans’ people.
We were talking about the cruelty of the chemical castration punishment meted out to Turing.
When I asked what they thought of young gay male teenagers being encouraged to go down a route of hormone blockers and oestrogen treatment, answer came there none.
Mutilaters not surgeons
Dr Transmengele will see you now.
Dr Transmengele will see you now.
Mutilaters not surgeons
“And because surgery will never turn a male into a female or a female into a male, the market for body modification is bottomless. ”
Grisly double entendre.
“Nonbinary patients — who might have avoided surgical interventions in favour of blue hair dye, personal “flair”, and interpersonal obnoxiousness”
Superb piece of writing!
The term “double entendre” doesn’t exist in French! An English invention
The term “double entendre” doesn’t exist in French! An English invention
“And because surgery will never turn a male into a female or a female into a male, the market for body modification is bottomless. ”
Grisly double entendre.
“Nonbinary patients — who might have avoided surgical interventions in favour of blue hair dye, personal “flair”, and interpersonal obnoxiousness”
Superb piece of writing!
“Gender-affirming care” = FGM for White people.
FGM for the mentally ill.
For female mainly white people
FGM for the mentally ill.
For female mainly white people
“Gender-affirming care” = FGM for White people.
And why ‘bottom surgery’ instead of genital surgery? The gender bending operations have nothing to do with the bottom. A phrase that depersonalises, demeans and cutefies what is going on.
Orwellian language is indeed a big part of the problem.
The term “bottom surgery” is commonly used by transgender people themselves, if you look it up. It’s not demeaning, it is seen as friendly and non-threatening.
Politics And The English Language 2.0
“Bottom” surgery is a coy diminution of the seriousness of genital surgery, which tends to affect patients adversely for life, in difficulty urinating etc.
Orwellian language is indeed a big part of the problem.
The term “bottom surgery” is commonly used by transgender people themselves, if you look it up. It’s not demeaning, it is seen as friendly and non-threatening.
Politics And The English Language 2.0
“Bottom” surgery is a coy diminution of the seriousness of genital surgery, which tends to affect patients adversely for life, in difficulty urinating etc.
And why ‘bottom surgery’ instead of genital surgery? The gender bending operations have nothing to do with the bottom. A phrase that depersonalises, demeans and cutefies what is going on.
Although the author touched on it, it’s worth repeating that many of these surgeries are needed to address complications caused by the original surgery. The brutality of these operations is shocking.
No, the complication rate for these surgeries is under 2%.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35690947/
It’s no more shocking than is fixing a harelip.
Here’s the money quote from the abstract you cited.
“Low serious complication rates within 30 days prove GAS to be safe.”
And that quote disproves you.
Are you saying 30 days is sufficient to evaluate the results of gender affirming surgery? There are plenty of studies out there underscoring the dangers of this type of invasive surgery.
None of which you will show claim the dangers are untoward with respect to the results or concealed in any way from people requesting them, and you will not show a serious complication rate occurring on average more than 2% of the time. 30 days is certainly the time frame over which a serious complication requiring reoperation would likely manifest.
I actually have no issue with adults getting gender affirming surgery, as long as the taxpayer doesn’t foot the bill. My issue is with minors getting invasive surgery.
But still we have to be honest and accurate when it comes to these things. One of the most famous minors to get surgery, Jazz Jennings, will soon be getting her fourth surgery to address issues caused by the first surgery.
I did very little research, and the number I discovered was 36% for bottom surgery. The abstract you cite says 8% for bottom surgery, not 2%.
I don’t have time right now, but later I’ll link to some studies that show much higher rates of complications.
I actually have no issue with adults getting gender affirming surgery, as long as the taxpayer doesn’t foot the bill. My issue is with minors getting invasive surgery.
But still we have to be honest and accurate when it comes to these things. One of the most famous minors to get surgery, Jazz Jennings, will soon be getting her fourth surgery to address issues caused by the first surgery.
I did very little research, and the number I discovered was 36% for bottom surgery. The abstract you cite says 8% for bottom surgery, not 2%.
I don’t have time right now, but later I’ll link to some studies that show much higher rates of complications.
None of which you will show claim the dangers are untoward with respect to the results or concealed in any way from people requesting them, and you will not show a serious complication rate occurring on average more than 2% of the time. 30 days is certainly the time frame over which a serious complication requiring reoperation would likely manifest.
Are you saying 30 days is sufficient to evaluate the results of gender affirming surgery? There are plenty of studies out there underscoring the dangers of this type of invasive surgery.
30 days! What about ten years?
And that quote disproves you.
30 days! What about ten years?
Your own source does not say that. It has 8% for “bottom” surgeries, 3.5% for “top”, 2.1% for head/neck, and overall 6%. And it only looked at complications recorded in the system within THIRTY (30) DAYS post-op…
No, that’s not what it says.
“The overall complication rate was 6% (n = 247), 2.1% (n = 4) for head/neck procedures, 8% (n = 134) for bottom procedures, and 3.5% (n = 84) for top surgeries.”
Nowhere is there a 2% statistic cited.
Furthermore, the point that “low serious complication rates WITHIN 30 DAYS prove GAS to be safe…” is ridiculous because it excludes complications that may present at a later date. The statistic is not only meaningless and irrelevant, it is dangerous, misleading and frankly, deceptive.
TBH, the Trans Cult and advocacy of trans surgeries cannot rely on the TRUTH about anything, so trans advocates resort to distortions, lies, manipulations of data and language to achieve what they cannot achieve by outright bullying of gender critical proponents.
Sane people need to adopt a zero tolerance policy towards this crap. Deny them everything, it’s 100% unscientific, made up bullshit.
Sane people need to adopt a zero tolerance policy towards this crap. Deny them everything, it’s 100% unscientific, made up bullshit.
Here’s the money quote from the abstract you cited.
“Low serious complication rates within 30 days prove GAS to be safe.”
Your own source does not say that. It has 8% for “bottom” surgeries, 3.5% for “top”, 2.1% for head/neck, and overall 6%. And it only looked at complications recorded in the system within THIRTY (30) DAYS post-op…
No, that’s not what it says.
“The overall complication rate was 6% (n = 247), 2.1% (n = 4) for head/neck procedures, 8% (n = 134) for bottom procedures, and 3.5% (n = 84) for top surgeries.”
Nowhere is there a 2% statistic cited.
Furthermore, the point that “low serious complication rates WITHIN 30 DAYS prove GAS to be safe…” is ridiculous because it excludes complications that may present at a later date. The statistic is not only meaningless and irrelevant, it is dangerous, misleading and frankly, deceptive.
TBH, the Trans Cult and advocacy of trans surgeries cannot rely on the TRUTH about anything, so trans advocates resort to distortions, lies, manipulations of data and language to achieve what they cannot achieve by outright bullying of gender critical proponents.
The long term health consequences are not just disturbing, they are frightening and grotesque.
Iatrogenic harm
No, the complication rate for these surgeries is under 2%.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35690947/
It’s no more shocking than is fixing a harelip.
The long term health consequences are not just disturbing, they are frightening and grotesque.
Iatrogenic harm
Although the author touched on it, it’s worth repeating that many of these surgeries are needed to address complications caused by the original surgery. The brutality of these operations is shocking.
Other than the consent of the “patient”, how is this different from the experiments done by the Nazis?
Assuming that a mentally ill person or a young minor CAN consent.
Assuming that a mentally ill person or a young minor CAN consent.
Other than the consent of the “patient”, how is this different from the experiments done by the Nazis?
Remember when the fad-du-jour was anorexia? Of course it’s still with us, but not the in thing at the moment, that would be trans. But why didn’t we — don’t we — Affirm anorexia? Why not Affirm that a 12 year old girl who weights 60 pounds is fat and need to lose another 20 pounds? Identity is reality, so if the girl Identifies as fat, SHE IS FAT and it should be a crime to say otherwise. We could have Weight Affirming Care that helps girls shed that last 20 pounds. There’s money to be made. And why no anorexia flag? And why no Safe Spaces? Why no parades? Why no Anorexia Month?
Because anorexia is a mental illness, a delusional inability to accurately identify the physical aspects of the self. Transgender people have no such delusion.
“… to accurately identify the physical aspects of the self”
Would that not be the perfect description of trans? Is trans not, for example, the delusion that one is a boy irrespective of one’s XX chromosomes and female biology? If Identifying as male makes it so, irrespective of reality, then how on Earth does Identifying as fat not make it so, irrespective of my weighing 60 pounds?
No, they can describe the physical aspects of the self which are visible with usual accuracy.
The equally physical parts which cannot be seen are what you are in denial of.
‘Phydical parts which can’t be seen is oxymoronic. As well as moronic.
I want a list of physical parts that cannot be seen, and by seen, I include things that can be seen with an x-ray, an MRI, or proved with a genetic test. I’m willing to entertain the idea that there’s such a thing as a female brain and that it can be distinguished from a male brain, and that this can contradict a person’s genetic makeup, but how do we establish that in a scientific, measurable way?
‘Phydical parts which can’t be seen is oxymoronic. As well as moronic.
I want a list of physical parts that cannot be seen, and by seen, I include things that can be seen with an x-ray, an MRI, or proved with a genetic test. I’m willing to entertain the idea that there’s such a thing as a female brain and that it can be distinguished from a male brain, and that this can contradict a person’s genetic makeup, but how do we establish that in a scientific, measurable way?
No, they can describe the physical aspects of the self which are visible with usual accuracy.
The equally physical parts which cannot be seen are what you are in denial of.
Oh dear.
Oh no, not at all.
“Transgender people have no such delusions” as the anorexic — that she is fat — is a great joke. It made me laugh, anyway. Because only “imposter syndrome” can make this true.
And original transsexuals never claimed to have changed sex anyway: they were realists.
For (usually) a woman to be deluded about her “too fat” body weight / size / shape under huge pressure from the fashion industry to be actually anorexic, is a recognised hazard for fashion models. As it is also for other girls horrified by the hypersexualised images of women in consumer advertising, plus the demeaning expectations of becoming a woman: not just on the lines of a 1950s sex role stereotype, but now hideously degraded by online porn.
But girls who might previously have become anorexic in defiance of these expectations now identify as “trans” instead. Plenty of trans-identified females accept they can never truly become males: but relief from the sexual attentions of men might not survive the enduring stress of imposter syndrome. Some find that coming out as a butch lesbian is a much greater relief: to be truly “themselves” — instead of the strain of pretending they have changed sex.
“… to accurately identify the physical aspects of the self”
Would that not be the perfect description of trans? Is trans not, for example, the delusion that one is a boy irrespective of one’s XX chromosomes and female biology? If Identifying as male makes it so, irrespective of reality, then how on Earth does Identifying as fat not make it so, irrespective of my weighing 60 pounds?
Oh dear.
Oh no, not at all.
“Transgender people have no such delusions” as the anorexic — that she is fat — is a great joke. It made me laugh, anyway. Because only “imposter syndrome” can make this true.
And original transsexuals never claimed to have changed sex anyway: they were realists.
For (usually) a woman to be deluded about her “too fat” body weight / size / shape under huge pressure from the fashion industry to be actually anorexic, is a recognised hazard for fashion models. As it is also for other girls horrified by the hypersexualised images of women in consumer advertising, plus the demeaning expectations of becoming a woman: not just on the lines of a 1950s sex role stereotype, but now hideously degraded by online porn.
But girls who might previously have become anorexic in defiance of these expectations now identify as “trans” instead. Plenty of trans-identified females accept they can never truly become males: but relief from the sexual attentions of men might not survive the enduring stress of imposter syndrome. Some find that coming out as a butch lesbian is a much greater relief: to be truly “themselves” — instead of the strain of pretending they have changed sex.
Because anorexia is a mental illness, a delusional inability to accurately identify the physical aspects of the self. Transgender people have no such delusion.
Remember when the fad-du-jour was anorexia? Of course it’s still with us, but not the in thing at the moment, that would be trans. But why didn’t we — don’t we — Affirm anorexia? Why not Affirm that a 12 year old girl who weights 60 pounds is fat and need to lose another 20 pounds? Identity is reality, so if the girl Identifies as fat, SHE IS FAT and it should be a crime to say otherwise. We could have Weight Affirming Care that helps girls shed that last 20 pounds. There’s money to be made. And why no anorexia flag? And why no Safe Spaces? Why no parades? Why no Anorexia Month?
Transubstantiation is the term for converting these new ‘gendered souls’ into correspondingly altered bodies. Donna Haraway’s cyborgs are closer to the truth than Judith Butler’s Foucauldian spin on the construction of ‘sexed’ as well as sexual identity. That is, gender is an academic conceit until it encounters the operating theatre.
The freedom granted to plastic surgical interventions in the United States is then disastrous when matched to the wave of psychotherapeutic assessment of childhood/teenage mental complexes which simply apply ‘expressive liberalism’ – the creed that my truth is the only ‘subjectivity’ which matters (clinically here) – to conditions requiring long-term, nuanced diagnosis and treatment.
Transubstantiation is the term for converting these new ‘gendered souls’ into correspondingly altered bodies. Donna Haraway’s cyborgs are closer to the truth than Judith Butler’s Foucauldian spin on the construction of ‘sexed’ as well as sexual identity. That is, gender is an academic conceit until it encounters the operating theatre.
The freedom granted to plastic surgical interventions in the United States is then disastrous when matched to the wave of psychotherapeutic assessment of childhood/teenage mental complexes which simply apply ‘expressive liberalism’ – the creed that my truth is the only ‘subjectivity’ which matters (clinically here) – to conditions requiring long-term, nuanced diagnosis and treatment.
I find the whole transitioning phenomenon odd. Does its rise coincide with an online gaming world where you can literally be anyone (or anything for that matter) you want?
It’s almost like this virtual world has bleed into the real world with predictably macabre results.
No – it coincides with schoolteachers telling little children fairytales about sex. I have kids. They loved and looked up to their primary school teachers. The capture of the school system by progressives is appalling because it allows them to literally warp reality for children.
Some teachers have helped this ideology along, but they didn’t start it. Online influences seem to be more important in implanting the idea in vulnerable young people that all their problems can be solved by transitioning genders.
Some teachers have helped this ideology along, but they didn’t start it. Online influences seem to be more important in implanting the idea in vulnerable young people that all their problems can be solved by transitioning genders.
Yes, in many cases it does correspond to young people’s experiences in the virtual world, where they can pretend to be anyone they want.
No – it coincides with schoolteachers telling little children fairytales about sex. I have kids. They loved and looked up to their primary school teachers. The capture of the school system by progressives is appalling because it allows them to literally warp reality for children.
Yes, in many cases it does correspond to young people’s experiences in the virtual world, where they can pretend to be anyone they want.
I find the whole transitioning phenomenon odd. Does its rise coincide with an online gaming world where you can literally be anyone (or anything for that matter) you want?
It’s almost like this virtual world has bleed into the real world with predictably macabre results.
‘First do no harm’ is yesterday’s news. ‘Follow the money’ is today’s hippocratic paycheck.
These ‘doctors’ should be struck off. And prosecuted. And if there isn’t a law under which to prosecute them yet, pass one. Fight fire with fire. Hoist them with their own petard. These ‘doctors’ are amoral ghouls.
‘First do no harm’ is yesterday’s news. ‘Follow the money’ is today’s hippocratic paycheck.
These ‘doctors’ should be struck off. And prosecuted. And if there isn’t a law under which to prosecute them yet, pass one. Fight fire with fire. Hoist them with their own petard. These ‘doctors’ are amoral ghouls.
I have no problem if people want to customise their meat suit. So long as they pay for it and don’t seek any special treatment because of it. I’m all for voluntary body modification no matter how hideous, so long as people take personal responsibility for it.
However todays gender dyspeptic and AGPs take no responsibility and want want taxpayers to pick up the tab for their fetish.
I have no problem if people want to customise their meat suit. So long as they pay for it and don’t seek any special treatment because of it. I’m all for voluntary body modification no matter how hideous, so long as people take personal responsibility for it.
However todays gender dyspeptic and AGPs take no responsibility and want want taxpayers to pick up the tab for their fetish.
“the market for body modification is bottomless.”
Ha!
“the market for body modification is bottomless.”
Ha!
Well, we do need to reduce the population, and this is basically castration, so . . .
On the contrary, we need to increase the population, or at least massively increase reproduction rates to sustain it, at least if we wish anything like a welfare state to continue. Mass immigration is a short-termist Ponzi scheme which will in the fullness of time collapse as such schemes always do, though not before it has done untold damage to social cohesion and mutual trust.
You’re right of course, but I’m pretty sure Dumetrius’s comment is in the spirit of a Swiftian Modest Proposal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal
The welfare state deserves to die. There are too many childless, elderly parasites.
You’re right of course, but I’m pretty sure Dumetrius’s comment is in the spirit of a Swiftian Modest Proposal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal
The welfare state deserves to die. There are too many childless, elderly parasites.
On the contrary, we need to increase the population, or at least massively increase reproduction rates to sustain it, at least if we wish anything like a welfare state to continue. Mass immigration is a short-termist Ponzi scheme which will in the fullness of time collapse as such schemes always do, though not before it has done untold damage to social cohesion and mutual trust.
Well, we do need to reduce the population, and this is basically castration, so . . .
Maybe it’s just God’s way of telling Americans they have too much money and lack the education to spend it wisely.
Maybe it’s just God’s way of telling Americans they have too much money and lack the education to spend it wisely.
There’s an element of profiteering here that’s disappointing from the medical industry. Disappointing, but not shocking to someone as cynical as myself. Further, the doctors aren’t the only ones who exploit the gullible, the mentally ill, and the stupid. Once the doctors are done, then the lawyers get their turn at the trough. The doctors make the money doing the surgeries. Then the lawyers make money when people sue over the expensive complications that they weren’t sufficiently warned about. Get ready for the amusing sight of left-leaning lawyers and left-leaning doctors arguing about victimization and getting rich while the people they claim to care about continue to suffer.
Prove there is any complication rate for these surgeries higher than for any other.
Prove there is any complication rate for these surgeries higher than for any other.
There’s an element of profiteering here that’s disappointing from the medical industry. Disappointing, but not shocking to someone as cynical as myself. Further, the doctors aren’t the only ones who exploit the gullible, the mentally ill, and the stupid. Once the doctors are done, then the lawyers get their turn at the trough. The doctors make the money doing the surgeries. Then the lawyers make money when people sue over the expensive complications that they weren’t sufficiently warned about. Get ready for the amusing sight of left-leaning lawyers and left-leaning doctors arguing about victimization and getting rich while the people they claim to care about continue to suffer.
I got a feeling a lot of these doctors are going to end up as popular as abortionists.
Even many of us that support a right to abortion have no desire to know a doctor socially that does that for a living. It takes a certain kind of cold, callousness to be able to do that day in and day out.
Got a feeling that as more and more comes out about what is going on, there are going to be recriminations for a lot of the people involved and for these doctors, they will ultimately be shunned.
I got a feeling a lot of these doctors are going to end up as popular as abortionists.
Even many of us that support a right to abortion have no desire to know a doctor socially that does that for a living. It takes a certain kind of cold, callousness to be able to do that day in and day out.
Got a feeling that as more and more comes out about what is going on, there are going to be recriminations for a lot of the people involved and for these doctors, they will ultimately be shunned.
“The World Professional Association for Transgender Health”
And here’s where these perfectly well-adjusted chaps stand on castration fetishes and child abuse fantasies…
https://reduxx.info/academics-involved-with-top-transgender-health-authority-publish-paper-on-choosing-castration/
“The World Professional Association for Transgender Health”
And here’s where these perfectly well-adjusted chaps stand on castration fetishes and child abuse fantasies…
https://reduxx.info/academics-involved-with-top-transgender-health-authority-publish-paper-on-choosing-castration/
What is the point of inviting people to “join discussion” when the system suppresses 99.99% of their posts. It’s tiresome and makes me question whether I should pay for a subscription
Ya. This is beyond frustrating. I wonder how many posts were deleted. What’s the point? When everyone follows the herd, the comment section is fine. The second there is controversy, comments get deleted. Maybe they should change the name of the site to Herd.
Plus, the controversial comments are always the most enjoyable to read (especially when I disagree with them)
Plus, the controversial comments are always the most enjoyable to read (especially when I disagree with them)
Ya. This is beyond frustrating. I wonder how many posts were deleted. What’s the point? When everyone follows the herd, the comment section is fine. The second there is controversy, comments get deleted. Maybe they should change the name of the site to Herd.
What is the point of inviting people to “join discussion” when the system suppresses 99.99% of their posts. It’s tiresome and makes me question whether I should pay for a subscription
As more and more live their lives virtually there’s a certain logic to believing we can infinitely alter our avatars to match our mood.
Very very funny to see a bunch of Trump cultists worrying about the mental capacity of others!
Right, only ‘Trump cultists’ are opposed to this insanity. Methinks thou art a shithead.
Right, only ‘Trump cultists’ are opposed to this insanity. Methinks thou art a shithead.
Very very funny to see a bunch of Trump cultists worrying about the mental capacity of others!
What adults want to do to their bodies is their own business and no one else’s.
OK, so if an adult wants, say, his left arm amputated, a surgeon should be found to do it? Or does this only apply to breast removal and genital mutilation? As the author points out, they’re chasing an impossible goal, which of course is great news for the modern day Mengeles masquerading as ‘gender affirming surgeons’. You don’t seem to object at all to these grotesque procedures being performed on children.
Children are an entirely different matter. Don’t conflate them with adults.
Nobody under 18 should be having any surgical procedures or hormone treatment.
And no, I don’t object to an adult having radical surgery.
It’s their body, their money and their life.
Nobody has a right to impose their beliefs on others.
Adults are free to do as they please so long as they don’t hurt others.
No person who is mentally fit would ever engage in such behavior.
If you are not mentally fit, then a doctor has an obligation, a duty, to decline to perform that surgery.
Good to know that you oppose children being subjected to this sickness. As for beliefs being imposed on others, what about people being punished for not using ‘preferred pronouns’, or ‘deadnaming’ and ‘misgendering’ others? And don’t even tell me this is not going on. The examples are too numerous to list.
Having failed with that line of reasoning you have changed the subject and gone off at a tangent.
Let’s stick with the subject at hand.
OK, let’s go at this another way: if someone knows that somebody they care about is an anorexic, a bulimic, a self-cutter should they just say hey, it’s their body and let them continue?
Understand that I’m no fan of the nanny state. If people want to smoke, drink, get high, eat greasy food it’s up to them, just don’t whine about the consequences.
On the other hand, engaging in or wanting to engage in self-mutilation is clearly a sign of serious mental illness, don’t see how you can argue otherwise.
As far as people being punished (increasingly by the law, in the UK, EU and US) for challenging the trans orthodoxy I would say that that’s the logical consequence of accepting something with such an illogical, absurd premise.
None of which makes any difference to my belief that adults can do whatever they please with their bodies and nobody else has a right to interfere.
You obviously have paternalistic beliefs.
I consider myself to be a libertarian.
Chalk and cheese.
We are never going to agree.
None of which makes any difference to my belief that adults can do whatever they please with their bodies and nobody else has a right to interfere.
You obviously have paternalistic beliefs.
I consider myself to be a libertarian.
Chalk and cheese.
We are never going to agree.
OK, let’s go at this another way: if someone knows that somebody they care about is an anorexic, a bulimic, a self-cutter should they just say hey, it’s their body and let them continue?
Understand that I’m no fan of the nanny state. If people want to smoke, drink, get high, eat greasy food it’s up to them, just don’t whine about the consequences.
On the other hand, engaging in or wanting to engage in self-mutilation is clearly a sign of serious mental illness, don’t see how you can argue otherwise.
As far as people being punished (increasingly by the law, in the UK, EU and US) for challenging the trans orthodoxy I would say that that’s the logical consequence of accepting something with such an illogical, absurd premise.
Having failed with that line of reasoning you have changed the subject and gone off at a tangent.
Let’s stick with the subject at hand.
No person who is mentally fit would ever engage in such behavior.
If you are not mentally fit, then a doctor has an obligation, a duty, to decline to perform that surgery.
Good to know that you oppose children being subjected to this sickness. As for beliefs being imposed on others, what about people being punished for not using ‘preferred pronouns’, or ‘deadnaming’ and ‘misgendering’ others? And don’t even tell me this is not going on. The examples are too numerous to list.
Children are an entirely different matter. Don’t conflate them with adults.
Nobody under 18 should be having any surgical procedures or hormone treatment.
And no, I don’t object to an adult having radical surgery.
It’s their body, their money and their life.
Nobody has a right to impose their beliefs on others.
Adults are free to do as they please so long as they don’t hurt others.
If someone suffering paranoia is convinced there are microphones implanted in their teeth and want them all removed, would you condone it?
They are not in a proper mental state to make such a decision, which is obviously not good for them. Trans surgery is the same.
Answer came there none.
Answer came there none.
No, I heartily disagree with you. Not when it comes to needless self harm and suicidal ideation.
It’s astounding how readily you feel you can interfere with the lives of others… to decide for them what they should and should not be able to do.
Simply astounding.
I’d feel the same way about you too, William. If you posted here that you wanted to undergo sexual reassignment surgery, I would strongly urge you to consider other alternatives to finding self-acceptance. I certainly wouldn’t push surgical procedures on you that could potentially prevent you from ever having a healthy sexual and social life. If that makes me interfering so be it.
I find your beliefs inconceivable.
Stay out of other people’s lives.
I would never interfere with the life of another person.
Anything an adult wants to do is their business and their’s alone, unless it physically damages another human being, costs them money, etc.
I find your beliefs inconceivable.
Stay out of other people’s lives.
I would never interfere with the life of another person.
Anything an adult wants to do is their business and their’s alone, unless it physically damages another human being, costs them money, etc.
I’d feel the same way about you too, William. If you posted here that you wanted to undergo sexual reassignment surgery, I would strongly urge you to consider other alternatives to finding self-acceptance. I certainly wouldn’t push surgical procedures on you that could potentially prevent you from ever having a healthy sexual and social life. If that makes me interfering so be it.
It’s astounding how readily you feel you can interfere with the lives of others… to decide for them what they should and should not be able to do.
Simply astounding.
OK, so if an adult wants, say, his left arm amputated, a surgeon should be found to do it? Or does this only apply to breast removal and genital mutilation? As the author points out, they’re chasing an impossible goal, which of course is great news for the modern day Mengeles masquerading as ‘gender affirming surgeons’. You don’t seem to object at all to these grotesque procedures being performed on children.
If someone suffering paranoia is convinced there are microphones implanted in their teeth and want them all removed, would you condone it?
They are not in a proper mental state to make such a decision, which is obviously not good for them. Trans surgery is the same.
No, I heartily disagree with you. Not when it comes to needless self harm and suicidal ideation.
What adults want to do to their bodies is their own business and no one else’s.
Apparently Unherd or someone is not honest enough to have this stay posted. Who deleted it is a child abusing coward.
There is no “dark truth” to gender affirmative surgeries. They are far less regretted than for example back surgery or knee replacement.
They have no more a serious complication rate than do other major surgeries.
https://journals.Iww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/03000 /regret_after_gender_affirmation_surgery_a.22.aspx?fbclid=lwAR3IGpcsJ8Mxj tC-X9FIV37QGSxKysAhl3yqA9L0dmsDrwlnnz5PqgP7NPj4
Becoming has nothing to do with it — that is your dishonest, conclusory, strawman argument. It is your resort to emotion over facts.
Not having an appearance at odds with the internal sexual dimorphism of the brain (and the brain is equally as physical and biological as the rest of the body is) is the point; and these surgeries serve the end of that point very well.
So what if 8% of gender affirming surgeries are happening for people under the age of 18? You have no excuse to pretend the regret rate for them is markedly higher than for adults.
You fail miserably a real life test of the Trolley Car Problem. You are perfectly willing to force about 49 boys to grow up with breasts and a period. or to force about 49 girls to grow up with a beard and a deep voice for sake of preventing about 1 from experiencing the same.
Now let’s see if you are brave and honest enough not to delete this again.
Sorry, but your claim that these mutilations are less regretted than back or knee surgery is just nonsense.
Oh really? And how do you know this? Read it on Brietbart? Saw an expose on GB News?
Or you just feel that it isn’t right?
Sorry, the clinical evidence is overwhelming. Do some research.
How about you provide some of this overwhelming clinical evidence – if you can…
How about you provide some of this overwhelming clinical evidence – if you can…
Sorry, the clinical evidence is overwhelming. Do some research.
Oh really? And how do you know this? Read it on Brietbart? Saw an expose on GB News?
Or you just feel that it isn’t right?
I completely disagree with everything you’re saying, but they shouldn’t have removed your post.
Your language suggests that you are too close to this topic to think objectively about it. Surely, the whole point of human existence is to learn how to come to terms with reality, and not break oneself upon a shallow fantasy? By performing these monstrous surgeries are we not simply denying people the ability to learn how to sexually mature and grow up?
“Monstrous”?
Little subjective yourself there, Jules!
Yes, I’m perhaps a little subjective myself on this matter, but there are good reasons for that. Would genuinely like to hear your views though, CS.
Views on what? A miniscule number of young people getting the medical support they need? I’m all for it.
Or the far right trying to use this as a wedge issue to try to get people to not focus on their grotesque policies to enrich themselves while the average GOP voter gets poorer every day? Not so keen on that.
I’m completely with you that this is a wedge issue. I disagree that it is a far-right one, but neither do I think it’s far-left either. I think it’s a very rich and influential group of people who enjoy seeing us fight among ourselves while they enrich themselves. I truly hate the left and right wing dichotomy as it’s not at all accurate. I’ve recently finished reading ‘Why Liberalism Failed’. It makes for good reading and explains many of the underlying reasons of why and how we got here.
I’m completely with you that this is a wedge issue. I disagree that it is a far-right one, but neither do I think it’s far-left either. I think it’s a very rich and influential group of people who enjoy seeing us fight among ourselves while they enrich themselves. I truly hate the left and right wing dichotomy as it’s not at all accurate. I’ve recently finished reading ‘Why Liberalism Failed’. It makes for good reading and explains many of the underlying reasons of why and how we got here.
Views on what? A miniscule number of young people getting the medical support they need? I’m all for it.
Or the far right trying to use this as a wedge issue to try to get people to not focus on their grotesque policies to enrich themselves while the average GOP voter gets poorer every day? Not so keen on that.
Yes, I’m perhaps a little subjective myself on this matter, but there are good reasons for that. Would genuinely like to hear your views though, CS.
“Monstrous”?
Little subjective yourself there, Jules!
Children are prevented from doing many, many things – because they are not mature enough to make certain decisions. That same logic applies to gender affirming surgery. We don’t allow children to drink alcohol, yet somehow they should be allowed to make decisions about life altering surgery.
Sorry, but your claim that these mutilations are less regretted than back or knee surgery is just nonsense.
I completely disagree with everything you’re saying, but they shouldn’t have removed your post.
Your language suggests that you are too close to this topic to think objectively about it. Surely, the whole point of human existence is to learn how to come to terms with reality, and not break oneself upon a shallow fantasy? By performing these monstrous surgeries are we not simply denying people the ability to learn how to sexually mature and grow up?
Children are prevented from doing many, many things – because they are not mature enough to make certain decisions. That same logic applies to gender affirming surgery. We don’t allow children to drink alcohol, yet somehow they should be allowed to make decisions about life altering surgery.
Apparently Unherd or someone is not honest enough to have this stay posted. Who deleted it is a child abusing coward.
There is no “dark truth” to gender affirmative surgeries. They are far less regretted than for example back surgery or knee replacement.
They have no more a serious complication rate than do other major surgeries.
https://journals.Iww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/03000 /regret_after_gender_affirmation_surgery_a.22.aspx?fbclid=lwAR3IGpcsJ8Mxj tC-X9FIV37QGSxKysAhl3yqA9L0dmsDrwlnnz5PqgP7NPj4
Becoming has nothing to do with it — that is your dishonest, conclusory, strawman argument. It is your resort to emotion over facts.
Not having an appearance at odds with the internal sexual dimorphism of the brain (and the brain is equally as physical and biological as the rest of the body is) is the point; and these surgeries serve the end of that point very well.
So what if 8% of gender affirming surgeries are happening for people under the age of 18? You have no excuse to pretend the regret rate for them is markedly higher than for adults.
You fail miserably a real life test of the Trolley Car Problem. You are perfectly willing to force about 49 boys to grow up with breasts and a period. or to force about 49 girls to grow up with a beard and a deep voice for sake of preventing about 1 from experiencing the same.
Now let’s see if you are brave and honest enough not to delete this again.
There is no “dark truth” to gender affirmative surgeries.
They are far less regretted than for example back surgery or knee replacement. They have no more a serious complication rate than do other major surgeries.
https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/03000/regret_after_gender_affirmation_surgery__a.22.aspx?fbclid=IwAR3lGpcsJ8MxjtC-X9HV37QGSxKysAhI3yqA9LOdmsDrwInnz5PqgP7NPj4
Becoming has nothing to do with it — that is your dishonest, conclusory, strawman argument. It is your resort to emotion over facts. Not having an appearance at odds with the internal sexual dimorphism of the brain (and the brain is equally as physical and biological as the rest of the body is) is the point.
And those surgeries serve the end of that point very well.
And so what if 8% of gender affirming surgeries are happening for people under the age of 18? You have no excuse to pretend the regret rate for them is markedly higher than for adults.
You fail miserably a real life test of the Trolley Car Problem. You are perfectly willing to force about 49 boys to grow up with breasts and a period, or to force about 49 girls to grow up with a beard and a deep voice for sake of preventing about 1 from experiencing the same.
Now let’s see if you are brave and honest enough not to delete this.
The jury is still very much out on the regret rate, not to mention the post-op suicide rate, and the figures may be very different for the latest batch of patients who go down this road more because of social pressure than a genuine pathology.
I wonder what the long-term outcomes would be for patients who undergo non-affirming care instead? Of course I’ll never know because that’s a position only a facist bigot could entertain.
No, no jury is “out” on any of these things. There is no evidence whatsoever showing anyone is medically transitioning owing to “social pressure”, the idea is the fraudulent creation of Littman.
“I wonder what the long-term outcomes would be for patients who undergo non-affirming care instead?” <– We already know that, it is the 40%+ suicidality of the first 50 contiguous years of history the matter was regarded by Western science, psychiatry, or medicine.
The approach you ask about is known to be a failed one.
Isn’t it impossible to deny the existence of social pressure in an age of ubiquitous social media?
There is no factual basis to claim social pressure is causing people to medically transition their externally apparent gender and/or sex with regret. Littman and Bailey both have notoriously used the same fraudulent means to claim it, and been called out on their “errors” in every case.
There is no factual basis to claim social pressure is causing people to medically transition their externally apparent gender and/or sex with regret. Littman and Bailey both have notoriously used the same fraudulent means to claim it, and been called out on their “errors” in every case.
Isn’t it impossible to deny the existence of social pressure in an age of ubiquitous social media?
Yes, a fascist bigot. (You forgot the ‘s’, which only proves … something bad about you.) Anyway, bigot or not, we’ll see what happens in 10 and 20 years when the fad is over, and people’s new parts are falling off for the 3d time and they wake up to the fact that they are going to be medicalized for the rest of their lives.
No, no jury is “out” on any of these things. There is no evidence whatsoever showing anyone is medically transitioning owing to “social pressure”, the idea is the fraudulent creation of Littman.
“I wonder what the long-term outcomes would be for patients who undergo non-affirming care instead?” <– We already know that, it is the 40%+ suicidality of the first 50 contiguous years of history the matter was regarded by Western science, psychiatry, or medicine.
The approach you ask about is known to be a failed one.
Yes, a fascist bigot. (You forgot the ‘s’, which only proves … something bad about you.) Anyway, bigot or not, we’ll see what happens in 10 and 20 years when the fad is over, and people’s new parts are falling off for the 3d time and they wake up to the fact that they are going to be medicalized for the rest of their lives.
Boys grow up with a beard and a deep voice. Girls grow up with breasts and a period. There are two genders, and nobody has ever or will ever change sex. Stop pimping for sadistic paedophilia, you degenerate.
“Boys grow up with a beard and a deep voice.” <– Not always and only.
“Girls grow up with breasts and a period.” <– Not always and only.
The delusion you have that human sexual dimorphism is always in every individual perfect in that regard is only a delusion.
“There are two genders, and nobody has ever or will ever change sex. Stop pimping for sadistic paedophilia, you degenerate.” <– Why do you try not lying? Care and learn about what is real instead.
What makes this topic so irreconcilably fraught is that people are approaching it from two different realities – one where sex can be either male or female, and the other where people can choose from a whole range of genders and custom-build their bodies accordingly.
Debating this issue is difficult. Both sides believe that their version is right and the other is wrong. Both believe they have science on their side. Both believe they are acting out of care and compassion when they are for or against sexual reassignment surgery.
To me, it is pretty clear-cut. Sex is dimorphic. We are either male or female. Sex is not ‘assigned’ at birth, but formed during gestation. What makes transgenderism so unappealing to me is that it requires a lot of mental juggling on my part to go along with it. I have to suddenly accept that a man can be a real woman, and vice-versa, I have to learn new pronouns that can change at a moment’s notice and if I get them wrong can cost me my job, I have to pretend (act fake) around someone who has transitioned. The problem with gender ideology is that it is starting to be enshrined by behavioral codes and official government language. In effect it is forcing me to go along with someone else’s lie, which then puts me in mind of this Theodore Dalrymple quote:
“To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
I don’t want to have to learn a whole new way of speaking or acting just to avoid being bullied by a very small but vocal percentage of the population. To do so would make me an accomplice to a big lie which has great potential to ruin so many lives.
Regardless of your word salad, the bottom line is that you want to mutilate children. Children need to be protected from you people. You are utterly depraved, and belong on the sex offender wing in a high security prison.
Even better, put ’em in General Population and see how long they last.
I concede your point.
I concede your point.
Even better, put ’em in General Population and see how long they last.
What makes this topic so irreconcilably fraught is that people are approaching it from two different realities – one where sex can be either male or female, and the other where people can choose from a whole range of genders and custom-build their bodies accordingly.
Debating this issue is difficult. Both sides believe that their version is right and the other is wrong. Both believe they have science on their side. Both believe they are acting out of care and compassion when they are for or against sexual reassignment surgery.
To me, it is pretty clear-cut. Sex is dimorphic. We are either male or female. Sex is not ‘assigned’ at birth, but formed during gestation. What makes transgenderism so unappealing to me is that it requires a lot of mental juggling on my part to go along with it. I have to suddenly accept that a man can be a real woman, and vice-versa, I have to learn new pronouns that can change at a moment’s notice and if I get them wrong can cost me my job, I have to pretend (act fake) around someone who has transitioned. The problem with gender ideology is that it is starting to be enshrined by behavioral codes and official government language. In effect it is forcing me to go along with someone else’s lie, which then puts me in mind of this Theodore Dalrymple quote:
“To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
I don’t want to have to learn a whole new way of speaking or acting just to avoid being bullied by a very small but vocal percentage of the population. To do so would make me an accomplice to a big lie which has great potential to ruin so many lives.
Regardless of your word salad, the bottom line is that you want to mutilate children. Children need to be protected from you people. You are utterly depraved, and belong on the sex offender wing in a high security prison.
“Boys grow up with a beard and a deep voice.” <– Not always and only.
“Girls grow up with breasts and a period.” <– Not always and only.
The delusion you have that human sexual dimorphism is always in every individual perfect in that regard is only a delusion.
“There are two genders, and nobody has ever or will ever change sex. Stop pimping for sadistic paedophilia, you degenerate.” <– Why do you try not lying? Care and learn about what is real instead.
I think you need to find a moral compass or have the broken one you have repaired.
Your existence is appalling.
Characterizing letting nature take its course as forcing boys growing up to have breasts and a period, and girls growing up to have a beard and a deep voice is so moronically solipsistic it is truly staggering. A supporter of the genital mutilation of children calling their opponents ‘child abusing cowards’ is evidence of a sick, sick mind.
The jury is still very much out on the regret rate, not to mention the post-op suicide rate, and the figures may be very different for the latest batch of patients who go down this road more because of social pressure than a genuine pathology.
I wonder what the long-term outcomes would be for patients who undergo non-affirming care instead? Of course I’ll never know because that’s a position only a facist bigot could entertain.
Boys grow up with a beard and a deep voice. Girls grow up with breasts and a period. There are two genders, and nobody has ever or will ever change sex. Stop pimping for sadistic paedophilia, you degenerate.
I think you need to find a moral compass or have the broken one you have repaired.
Your existence is appalling.
Characterizing letting nature take its course as forcing boys growing up to have breasts and a period, and girls growing up to have a beard and a deep voice is so moronically solipsistic it is truly staggering. A supporter of the genital mutilation of children calling their opponents ‘child abusing cowards’ is evidence of a sick, sick mind.
There is no “dark truth” to gender affirmative surgeries.
They are far less regretted than for example back surgery or knee replacement. They have no more a serious complication rate than do other major surgeries.
https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/03000/regret_after_gender_affirmation_surgery__a.22.aspx?fbclid=IwAR3lGpcsJ8MxjtC-X9HV37QGSxKysAhI3yqA9LOdmsDrwInnz5PqgP7NPj4
Becoming has nothing to do with it — that is your dishonest, conclusory, strawman argument. It is your resort to emotion over facts. Not having an appearance at odds with the internal sexual dimorphism of the brain (and the brain is equally as physical and biological as the rest of the body is) is the point.
And those surgeries serve the end of that point very well.
And so what if 8% of gender affirming surgeries are happening for people under the age of 18? You have no excuse to pretend the regret rate for them is markedly higher than for adults.
You fail miserably a real life test of the Trolley Car Problem. You are perfectly willing to force about 49 boys to grow up with breasts and a period, or to force about 49 girls to grow up with a beard and a deep voice for sake of preventing about 1 from experiencing the same.
Now let’s see if you are brave and honest enough not to delete this.