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William Cameron
William Cameron
10 months ago

You missed out the killer reason for all this misery.
The 10m increase in the population in recent years (mostly immigration/ some ageing) is a huge drain on the economy. Virtually none of that 10m pay enough tax to cover the £11,500 each their public services (Police, Schools, Medicsetc) costs each.
The foolish politicians thought it increased GDP. It did a bit- but it didnt increase GDP per capita and it added billions to country’s running costs- never mind creating a housing crisis.
Increased population has ruined the Uk and it still goes on.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

Since Brexit, we have gained the power to cap immigration at a level that our housing market, public services and infrastructure can cope with.
All we need now is a government that understands this…

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

‘They’ understand alright, but lack the moral courage to do anything about it. In fact a classic case of LMF.*

(*Lack of Moral Fibre.)

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

Correct!

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
10 months ago

Are you sure it’s not class war?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Andy Iddon

Not yet.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Andy Iddon

Not yet.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

Correct!

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
10 months ago

Are you sure it’s not class war?

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

And it’s increased despite some pretty draconian Home Secs. Not so simple is it.
Incompetence doesn’t help of course.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

I don’t believe it has increased. There are no reliable figures prior to 2021 as we still had open borders with the EU. Population growth suggests we have been averaging 450k net immigration since A10 accession in 2005.

And no it isn’t easy – you will periodically get a problem like Ukraine that requires a temporary limit increase. But all in all, it should be possible to set a cap on work visas, family visas and refugees.

My suggestion is that the cap is based on a % of new dwellings built in the previous year. There were about 200k in 2022 so if we agreed 75% that would be a cap of 150k.

Of course this needs to go hand in hand with stopping illegal immigration otherwise it is all for nought.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

The Wizard of Oz syndrome – pull back the curtain on those ‘Draconian Home Secs’ and you’ll find the Wizard of Oz.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

I don’t believe it has increased. There are no reliable figures prior to 2021 as we still had open borders with the EU. Population growth suggests we have been averaging 450k net immigration since A10 accession in 2005.

And no it isn’t easy – you will periodically get a problem like Ukraine that requires a temporary limit increase. But all in all, it should be possible to set a cap on work visas, family visas and refugees.

My suggestion is that the cap is based on a % of new dwellings built in the previous year. There were about 200k in 2022 so if we agreed 75% that would be a cap of 150k.

Of course this needs to go hand in hand with stopping illegal immigration otherwise it is all for nought.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

The Wizard of Oz syndrome – pull back the curtain on those ‘Draconian Home Secs’ and you’ll find the Wizard of Oz.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

We are ruled by remainers, they’ll not come out and say it because they learnt their lesson from the referendum. They’ll slowly destroy Brexit. The only good news is that at the rate the EU is going, by the time we have been taken to the brink of rejoining, the EU will have failed.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
10 months ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

This is just silly, quasi-conspiratorial stuff. Rishi Sunak supported Brexit as a matter of record. (Bizarrely Liz Truss, despite being the brief designated champion of the Right, did not).

And please don’t counter with some definition of ‘Brexit’ of your own. The term, and the 2016 Referendum, itself made clear that it was a matter of remaining in the EU, or leaving it on some unspecified basis. Norway is not a member of the EU, and indeed Nigel Farage used to regularly advocate the ‘Norway option’ for which position – later shifted – he is rarely if ever taken to account.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
10 months ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

This is just silly, quasi-conspiratorial stuff. Rishi Sunak supported Brexit as a matter of record. (Bizarrely Liz Truss, despite being the brief designated champion of the Right, did not).

And please don’t counter with some definition of ‘Brexit’ of your own. The term, and the 2016 Referendum, itself made clear that it was a matter of remaining in the EU, or leaving it on some unspecified basis. Norway is not a member of the EU, and indeed Nigel Farage used to regularly advocate the ‘Norway option’ for which position – later shifted – he is rarely if ever taken to account.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

‘They’ understand alright, but lack the moral courage to do anything about it. In fact a classic case of LMF.*

(*Lack of Moral Fibre.)

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

And it’s increased despite some pretty draconian Home Secs. Not so simple is it.
Incompetence doesn’t help of course.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

We are ruled by remainers, they’ll not come out and say it because they learnt their lesson from the referendum. They’ll slowly destroy Brexit. The only good news is that at the rate the EU is going, by the time we have been taken to the brink of rejoining, the EU will have failed.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago

Its a MYTH put out by both left and right – that ”immigrants” contribute.
What utter nonesense.
Whilst I agree some certainly do, but where (say) a Polish family (Mum Dad & 2 kinds) come to UK (when we had freedom of movement) the cry was ”they are payign tax” – well maybe, but what was the cost to the general tax payer?
here:
Schools for 2 kids – £20,000 pa?
Health Care for 4 – £10/15,000 pa? – including maybe having another baby
Housing benefit perhaps? – £5,000 pa?
Other benefits perhaps (Child/school meals etc) – £2,000 pa?
Creaking infrastructure? – Price unknown….
Income tax paid perhaps – £2,500 pa? £4,500 maybe?
VAT Contribution maybe – £1,000?

It seems to be rather imbalanced to say the least.

For the record : I am really glad Polish and other hard-working people came to UK – they transformed the Handyman and Hospitality industries.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  rob drummond

The UK’s BAME population is currently standing at about 18%, or a fraction under 12 million souls.
Unfortunately it is now FAR too late to refute the MYTH that you so sensibly refer to, the damage has already been done.

If we to wish to divine the future, best look to that paragon of inter-racial harmony, the United States of America.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago

Indeed Charles. But I must also state the benefits MOST of the self-styled “bame” (hate that acronym) have brought us.

Firtly who the hec came up with that “BAME” cr*p in the first place – it is in itself DIVISIVE. And who the hec wants to put themselves INTO that “group”?

I say “most” of the “Bame” immigrants (vast majority actually) – but it seems to me quite a number b***h and shout about so-called “inequality” and racism at every single turn. “They” see it everywhere – even when it does not exist.

Why anyone would want to live in any country they clearly cant stand is beyond me.

Last edited 10 months ago by rob drummond
rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago
Reply to  rob drummond

Hmmm it seems “someone” edited a word that I wrote above – the word was Bit**

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  rob drummond

BAME was a descriptor the current Govt got us to start using.
The rest of your comment suggests to me you don’t have much experience working with people from a broad range of such backgrounds. I can tell you it’s most often an absolute pleasure and enriching.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago
Reply to  rob drummond

Hmmm it seems “someone” edited a word that I wrote above – the word was Bit**

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  rob drummond

BAME was a descriptor the current Govt got us to start using.
The rest of your comment suggests to me you don’t have much experience working with people from a broad range of such backgrounds. I can tell you it’s most often an absolute pleasure and enriching.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago

Indeed Charles. But I must also state the benefits MOST of the self-styled “bame” (hate that acronym) have brought us.

Firtly who the hec came up with that “BAME” cr*p in the first place – it is in itself DIVISIVE. And who the hec wants to put themselves INTO that “group”?

I say “most” of the “Bame” immigrants (vast majority actually) – but it seems to me quite a number b***h and shout about so-called “inequality” and racism at every single turn. “They” see it everywhere – even when it does not exist.

Why anyone would want to live in any country they clearly cant stand is beyond me.

Last edited 10 months ago by rob drummond
j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  rob drummond

I guess that example RD might apply to some but I’m not sure you can extrapolate much from it. You also miss quite a bit of dividend – what if the business where the migrant works cannot recruit elsewhere and would collapse without the additional workforce putting all the others out of work and also a reduction in corporation tax? What if the immigrant is a doctor helping ensure people sick can return to work quicker? How does one calculate the full value in such instances?
We could go on. The issue is there will be a massive range in any cost/benefit analysis – a cost/benefit analysis that might expose many of us ourselves of course were it applied more broadly.
In general though migrants, esp those who had come from the EU, were younger. Thus less health care and related costs. Less schooling costs as already schooled. Often well trained – teachers, nurses, and as you note, plumbers etc. And trends indicated they went back home later too in large numbers. So a v mixed picture.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  rob drummond

The UK’s BAME population is currently standing at about 18%, or a fraction under 12 million souls.
Unfortunately it is now FAR too late to refute the MYTH that you so sensibly refer to, the damage has already been done.

If we to wish to divine the future, best look to that paragon of inter-racial harmony, the United States of America.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  rob drummond

I guess that example RD might apply to some but I’m not sure you can extrapolate much from it. You also miss quite a bit of dividend – what if the business where the migrant works cannot recruit elsewhere and would collapse without the additional workforce putting all the others out of work and also a reduction in corporation tax? What if the immigrant is a doctor helping ensure people sick can return to work quicker? How does one calculate the full value in such instances?
We could go on. The issue is there will be a massive range in any cost/benefit analysis – a cost/benefit analysis that might expose many of us ourselves of course were it applied more broadly.
In general though migrants, esp those who had come from the EU, were younger. Thus less health care and related costs. Less schooling costs as already schooled. Often well trained – teachers, nurses, and as you note, plumbers etc. And trends indicated they went back home later too in large numbers. So a v mixed picture.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago

Hang on – without immigration we would not have a big enough working age population to pay taxes to support the ballooning pensioner population. Because of immigration we are not in such a bad state as some places – e.g Japan desperately needs migrant workers.
If you want economic growth you need immigration, if you don’t want immigration you can’t have growth.

John Serrano-Davey
John Serrano-Davey
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Simply not true- and dangerously so.
if you have to rely on immigration for growth, by your own definition it is a Ponzi scheme merely kicking the can into the future.
We wouldn’t actually need growth if our population was falling, and productivity-mechanised or otherwise- increasing.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago

Believe it or not I actually agree – but everyone seems to want growth. Although many of the the sectors that do need growth e.g. Care, can’t be mechanised so it’s not quite that simply. But I would be more than happy to live in a less consumer driven, more equal society, where we weren’t obsessed with growth. But show me a political party that says we don’t want growth!

Mike Bell
Mike Bell
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Around 1894 some of us ‘Greens’ were campaigning for a ‘Quality of Life’ index to replace GDP.
The ‘Growthist’ won.

Mike Bell
Mike Bell
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Around 1894 some of us ‘Greens’ were campaigning for a ‘Quality of Life’ index to replace GDP.
The ‘Growthist’ won.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago

Believe it or not I actually agree – but everyone seems to want growth. Although many of the the sectors that do need growth e.g. Care, can’t be mechanised so it’s not quite that simply. But I would be more than happy to live in a less consumer driven, more equal society, where we weren’t obsessed with growth. But show me a political party that says we don’t want growth!

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

If they don’t cover their own cost and more, what are you on about? Your statement is kind of dumb, isn’t it? youre relying on asking a silly question -as you have- right?

Last edited 10 months ago by Andy Iddon
Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Andy Iddon

So all the British contribute to tax revenue do they? A lot of the indigenous population dont want to work, we are becoming a lazy apathetic nation

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Andy Iddon

So all the British contribute to tax revenue do they? A lot of the indigenous population dont want to work, we are becoming a lazy apathetic nation

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Precisely why we need a properly funded savings system for pensions where people save before they spend (and spend someone else’s taxes rather than their accumulated savings).

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Thanks Martin, but you’re wasting your breath on these rednecks.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Carl Valentine

They do say
“There’s nothing like a well reasoned argument for persuading people.”
and that is nothing like a well reasoned argument. 😉

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Carl Valentine

They do say
“There’s nothing like a well reasoned argument for persuading people.”
and that is nothing like a well reasoned argument. 😉

John Serrano-Davey
John Serrano-Davey
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Simply not true- and dangerously so.
if you have to rely on immigration for growth, by your own definition it is a Ponzi scheme merely kicking the can into the future.
We wouldn’t actually need growth if our population was falling, and productivity-mechanised or otherwise- increasing.

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

If they don’t cover their own cost and more, what are you on about? Your statement is kind of dumb, isn’t it? youre relying on asking a silly question -as you have- right?

Last edited 10 months ago by Andy Iddon
Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Precisely why we need a properly funded savings system for pensions where people save before they spend (and spend someone else’s taxes rather than their accumulated savings).

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Thanks Martin, but you’re wasting your breath on these rednecks.

Margaret F
Margaret F
10 months ago

Immigration drives sprawl. Of course people are fleeing the cities. Who wants to live in the third world? Not even third worlders! Immigration drives crime, pollution, congestion, overpriced housing, etc, So people flee to the suburbs and the suburbs expand and that is how you get sprawl. You can’t have uncontrolled immigration and green belts too. It is one or the other. Keep up the immigration and the home counties will soon look like America, where one city blurs into the next in an endless sea of concrete and everyone wonders why they are so miserable. So basically file this problem under: “Yet Another Result of Uncontrolled Immigration.”

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Margaret F

Ever heard of nuance Margaret?

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Margaret F

Ever heard of nuance Margaret?

j watson
j watson
10 months ago

Rubbish, albeit I note you mention aging population which your subsequent supporters gloss over. In fact without a decent amount of managed migration we’d have even bigger problems because of that demographic.
No the reasons we are in a mess are i) we’ve had a hopeless Tory Govt for 13 years, first following unnecessary austerity that resulted in the grumbling of our public realm (incl. less ability to handle the Pandemic) ii) the chimera of Brexit, not only in making our economic position, international status and future outcomes worse, but also pursued to the detriment of much else we should have focused on instead iii) a series of dreadful PMs largely selected by a tiny ‘Golf Club’ cohort of the UK population iv) a Right Wing media that has helped lay the ground for these repeated disasters v) Right Wing philosophy that can’t square the desire for ‘conservatism’ with ‘Neo-Liberalism’.
The fact all these factors now mean even leafy Surrey feeling it just underlines how awful the above combination has proven to be.

Last edited 10 months ago by j watson
Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Excellent post my dear Watson

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Carl Valentine

Except it ain’t true.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Carl Valentine

Except it ain’t true.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Austerity? Interesting word. But can you point out where it applies to any Government since 2008? We have printed money as though it is going out of fashion (actually it appears to be) , we had the lowest interest rates in recorded history and we run a spending deficit since Brown. Perhaps you are using the Humpty Dumpty definition? i.e whatever you want it to mean.
The Greeks would love such ‘Austerity’

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Excellent post my dear Watson

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Austerity? Interesting word. But can you point out where it applies to any Government since 2008? We have printed money as though it is going out of fashion (actually it appears to be) , we had the lowest interest rates in recorded history and we run a spending deficit since Brown. Perhaps you are using the Humpty Dumpty definition? i.e whatever you want it to mean.
The Greeks would love such ‘Austerity’

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

Since Brexit, we have gained the power to cap immigration at a level that our housing market, public services and infrastructure can cope with.
All we need now is a government that understands this…

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago

Its a MYTH put out by both left and right – that ”immigrants” contribute.
What utter nonesense.
Whilst I agree some certainly do, but where (say) a Polish family (Mum Dad & 2 kinds) come to UK (when we had freedom of movement) the cry was ”they are payign tax” – well maybe, but what was the cost to the general tax payer?
here:
Schools for 2 kids – £20,000 pa?
Health Care for 4 – £10/15,000 pa? – including maybe having another baby
Housing benefit perhaps? – £5,000 pa?
Other benefits perhaps (Child/school meals etc) – £2,000 pa?
Creaking infrastructure? – Price unknown….
Income tax paid perhaps – £2,500 pa? £4,500 maybe?
VAT Contribution maybe – £1,000?

It seems to be rather imbalanced to say the least.

For the record : I am really glad Polish and other hard-working people came to UK – they transformed the Handyman and Hospitality industries.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago

Hang on – without immigration we would not have a big enough working age population to pay taxes to support the ballooning pensioner population. Because of immigration we are not in such a bad state as some places – e.g Japan desperately needs migrant workers.
If you want economic growth you need immigration, if you don’t want immigration you can’t have growth.

Margaret F
Margaret F
10 months ago

Immigration drives sprawl. Of course people are fleeing the cities. Who wants to live in the third world? Not even third worlders! Immigration drives crime, pollution, congestion, overpriced housing, etc, So people flee to the suburbs and the suburbs expand and that is how you get sprawl. You can’t have uncontrolled immigration and green belts too. It is one or the other. Keep up the immigration and the home counties will soon look like America, where one city blurs into the next in an endless sea of concrete and everyone wonders why they are so miserable. So basically file this problem under: “Yet Another Result of Uncontrolled Immigration.”

j watson
j watson
10 months ago

Rubbish, albeit I note you mention aging population which your subsequent supporters gloss over. In fact without a decent amount of managed migration we’d have even bigger problems because of that demographic.
No the reasons we are in a mess are i) we’ve had a hopeless Tory Govt for 13 years, first following unnecessary austerity that resulted in the grumbling of our public realm (incl. less ability to handle the Pandemic) ii) the chimera of Brexit, not only in making our economic position, international status and future outcomes worse, but also pursued to the detriment of much else we should have focused on instead iii) a series of dreadful PMs largely selected by a tiny ‘Golf Club’ cohort of the UK population iv) a Right Wing media that has helped lay the ground for these repeated disasters v) Right Wing philosophy that can’t square the desire for ‘conservatism’ with ‘Neo-Liberalism’.
The fact all these factors now mean even leafy Surrey feeling it just underlines how awful the above combination has proven to be.

Last edited 10 months ago by j watson
William Cameron
William Cameron
10 months ago

You missed out the killer reason for all this misery.
The 10m increase in the population in recent years (mostly immigration/ some ageing) is a huge drain on the economy. Virtually none of that 10m pay enough tax to cover the £11,500 each their public services (Police, Schools, Medicsetc) costs each.
The foolish politicians thought it increased GDP. It did a bit- but it didnt increase GDP per capita and it added billions to country’s running costs- never mind creating a housing crisis.
Increased population has ruined the Uk and it still goes on.

Stephen Walsh
Stephen Walsh
10 months ago

“…some of the country’s most expensive mortgages were among those hit hardest by the Truss Budget“. No they weren’t. They were hit by the spike in interest rates which accompanied that budget. But the reason property prices have risen so high in the first place – making them completely unaffordable for people on moderate incomes – was largely down to long period of historically extremely low interest rates maintained by the Bank of England, due in turn to sluggish economic growth. This has had a regressive effect, and pitted the interests of the generations against each other – a very political policy without political accountability. If the Blue Wall votes for Labour or the Lib Dems they will be getting a lot more of the anti-growth policies which are already making them poorer.

Last edited 10 months ago by Stephen Walsh
Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Could labour or lib Dems do worse? – they are going to have to go some. Inflation higher than in Europe, growth lower than in Europe but of course it’s absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

I see Sweden’s inflation rate dropped to 10.6% in March (compared to UK 10.1%) having been up to 12.3% recently. I must have missed the news about them leaving the EU.
Also I missed the bombshell that Germany had quit the EU. They must have done otherwise how could their last GDP growth print be -0.4% when ours was +0.1%.
I really must stay up to date on the European news!

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Lol you’re the man, the rednecks are routing!

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Lol you’re the man, the rednecks are routing!

John Serrano-Davey
John Serrano-Davey
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Of course Brexit had SOME influence, but your sarcasm betrays a lack of understanding if I may say so.
”Brexit” may not have been a very well thought through idea, and it’s implementation was shockingly bad. That said, it was always a long term strategic action rather than a short term promise of improvement, so it’s way way too early to say what the overall effects will be.
The lower growth might just be something to do with our appalling productivity record, and shockingly bad government leadership since then- together with a civil service determined to everything in its power to “make us all pay” for our impudent decision to leave.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

All European countries have shockingly low growth – last quarter:
UK 0.1%
France 0.1%
Euro Area 0%
Italy minus 0.1%
Germany minus 0.4%
Ever since the GFC European growth has been almost non-existent, indeed Germany was trending toward recession in the months before Covid hit.
As to inflation, all countries have suffered the same fate:
The UK peaked at 11.1%
The Netherlands at 14.5%
Sweden at 12.3%
Belgium: at 12.2%
Italy at 11.9%
Spain at 10.8%
Denmark at 10.1%
Germany, USA, Canada, etc topped out between 8-10%
This habit of singling out Britain’s performance as being uniquely poor is reminiscent of the times during Covid when our death rate was said to be the highest in Europe. Of course once the dust settled it turned out to be middling and lower than many countries including the, often lauded, Germany.
All people do is pick an indicator that is momentarily worse than other countries (often just down to reporting cycles) and shout: Look! Brexit!
It is as meaningful as me picking, say, the UK’s unemployment rate of 3.8% – half that of France, a third of Italy and a quarter of Spain – and shouting: Look Brexit!

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Excellent work, thank you!

Mike Bell
Mike Bell
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Have other people noticed this trend?:
That journalists now seek out the negative, the thing which knocks Britain, the snippet which may lead to a minister resigning.
When I was younger I feel MSM talked the country up more.
Am I deluded?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Excellent work, thank you!

Mike Bell
Mike Bell
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Have other people noticed this trend?:
That journalists now seek out the negative, the thing which knocks Britain, the snippet which may lead to a minister resigning.
When I was younger I feel MSM talked the country up more.
Am I deluded?

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago

Agreed

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

All European countries have shockingly low growth – last quarter:
UK 0.1%
France 0.1%
Euro Area 0%
Italy minus 0.1%
Germany minus 0.4%
Ever since the GFC European growth has been almost non-existent, indeed Germany was trending toward recession in the months before Covid hit.
As to inflation, all countries have suffered the same fate:
The UK peaked at 11.1%
The Netherlands at 14.5%
Sweden at 12.3%
Belgium: at 12.2%
Italy at 11.9%
Spain at 10.8%
Denmark at 10.1%
Germany, USA, Canada, etc topped out between 8-10%
This habit of singling out Britain’s performance as being uniquely poor is reminiscent of the times during Covid when our death rate was said to be the highest in Europe. Of course once the dust settled it turned out to be middling and lower than many countries including the, often lauded, Germany.
All people do is pick an indicator that is momentarily worse than other countries (often just down to reporting cycles) and shout: Look! Brexit!
It is as meaningful as me picking, say, the UK’s unemployment rate of 3.8% – half that of France, a third of Italy and a quarter of Spain – and shouting: Look Brexit!

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago

Agreed

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

The Lib-Dems did so well in Coalition that their voters, who were the only ones who actually got what they voted for in that GE, almost annihilated them next time around. Then we have Labour. Well that coalition, and every Tory Govt since has followed the same major economic policies as Brown. QE, Low interest rates and deficit spending – the Coalition DID make an effort to cut the deficit (not the debt, the deficit) AND the left whinged “Austerity” so they abandoned it. Clearly the left never read anything about Greece and ‘The Trokia’ and what Austerity was applied there. Nor did they read the IMF apology (after the crook Lagarde had left) apologising for ‘Immolating Greece on the Altar of the Euro’ – as far as I’m aware NO Tory was pushing the board of the IMF to produce that apology. Brexit is fine, the Trade War the ,EU has been waging against us ever since is an issue, and not one of our remain at heart leaders responds in kind. They even demand that City Bankers having meetings in the EU have a ‘chaperone’. We need The Reform Party in power , then tell the EU – IF it is a trade war you want, then no gas this summer, and no fishing in UK waters.
That apart, the Lib-Dems and Labour not only would have implemented lockdown longer and harder, they also support Net Zero insanity. IF the Blue Wall vote for any of them, then they’ll deserve ALL they get. Lets’ hope the Red Wall votes for Reform; there isn’t anything else out there worth voting for.
Even then we are too far down the road to avoid the catastrophe the West is facing over the insanities QE, low interest rates & deficit spending for decades, meeting lockdown inflation and Net Zero inflation.
Though I see Gold has dropped below £1600 an Oz – time to stock up with more of the stuff perhaps?
PS Inflation in Europe – smoke and mirrors.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/16324910/2-19042023-AP-EN.pdf/ff3d6b28-9c8f-41cd-714f-d1fd38af0b15

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

I see Sweden’s inflation rate dropped to 10.6% in March (compared to UK 10.1%) having been up to 12.3% recently. I must have missed the news about them leaving the EU.
Also I missed the bombshell that Germany had quit the EU. They must have done otherwise how could their last GDP growth print be -0.4% when ours was +0.1%.
I really must stay up to date on the European news!

John Serrano-Davey
John Serrano-Davey
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

Of course Brexit had SOME influence, but your sarcasm betrays a lack of understanding if I may say so.
”Brexit” may not have been a very well thought through idea, and it’s implementation was shockingly bad. That said, it was always a long term strategic action rather than a short term promise of improvement, so it’s way way too early to say what the overall effects will be.
The lower growth might just be something to do with our appalling productivity record, and shockingly bad government leadership since then- together with a civil service determined to everything in its power to “make us all pay” for our impudent decision to leave.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

The Lib-Dems did so well in Coalition that their voters, who were the only ones who actually got what they voted for in that GE, almost annihilated them next time around. Then we have Labour. Well that coalition, and every Tory Govt since has followed the same major economic policies as Brown. QE, Low interest rates and deficit spending – the Coalition DID make an effort to cut the deficit (not the debt, the deficit) AND the left whinged “Austerity” so they abandoned it. Clearly the left never read anything about Greece and ‘The Trokia’ and what Austerity was applied there. Nor did they read the IMF apology (after the crook Lagarde had left) apologising for ‘Immolating Greece on the Altar of the Euro’ – as far as I’m aware NO Tory was pushing the board of the IMF to produce that apology. Brexit is fine, the Trade War the ,EU has been waging against us ever since is an issue, and not one of our remain at heart leaders responds in kind. They even demand that City Bankers having meetings in the EU have a ‘chaperone’. We need The Reform Party in power , then tell the EU – IF it is a trade war you want, then no gas this summer, and no fishing in UK waters.
That apart, the Lib-Dems and Labour not only would have implemented lockdown longer and harder, they also support Net Zero insanity. IF the Blue Wall vote for any of them, then they’ll deserve ALL they get. Lets’ hope the Red Wall votes for Reform; there isn’t anything else out there worth voting for.
Even then we are too far down the road to avoid the catastrophe the West is facing over the insanities QE, low interest rates & deficit spending for decades, meeting lockdown inflation and Net Zero inflation.
Though I see Gold has dropped below £1600 an Oz – time to stock up with more of the stuff perhaps?
PS Inflation in Europe – smoke and mirrors.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/16324910/2-19042023-AP-EN.pdf/ff3d6b28-9c8f-41cd-714f-d1fd38af0b15

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Could labour or lib Dems do worse? – they are going to have to go some. Inflation higher than in Europe, growth lower than in Europe but of course it’s absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

Stephen Walsh
Stephen Walsh
10 months ago

“…some of the country’s most expensive mortgages were among those hit hardest by the Truss Budget“. No they weren’t. They were hit by the spike in interest rates which accompanied that budget. But the reason property prices have risen so high in the first place – making them completely unaffordable for people on moderate incomes – was largely down to long period of historically extremely low interest rates maintained by the Bank of England, due in turn to sluggish economic growth. This has had a regressive effect, and pitted the interests of the generations against each other – a very political policy without political accountability. If the Blue Wall votes for Labour or the Lib Dems they will be getting a lot more of the anti-growth policies which are already making them poorer.

Last edited 10 months ago by Stephen Walsh
Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

This is the return of the “Remaniers Revenge/LibDems one-step-from-victory” story that was so prevalent in the run-up to the 2019 election in which the majority of the Lib Dems, including their leader and all the Remainer Tory turncoats all lost their seats.
As a reminder, we had a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic which resulted in the unprecedented two-year-long shutdown of the world economy and was followed by a disruption to the energy market equivalent to the 1973 Oil Crisis.
Many commentators seem to forget this and believe that our economic woes are somehow to do with Boris eating some cake or a minor increase in paperwork to move fresh sausages from Dover to Calais following us leaving the EU.
Pretty soon inflation and GDP growth will return to pre-Covid levels. This will put an end to the strikes and sense of financial insecurity. NHS backlogs will resolve themselves. Life will get back to normal and Rishi Sunak will probably win the next election.

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Spot on! Even Aeschylus, Sophocles, or even Euripides couldn’t have dreamt up such a TRAGEDY!

However one cannot exculpate Johnson & Cummings for their absolutely pathetic response to the great Covid Panic/Scam.

As a result of their abject dereliction of duty, the hard won ‘Red Wall’ is probably lost for a generation. Whilst I admire you optimism, sadly I cannot share it.

Johnson & Cummings should be thrown into the ‘Pit of Eternal Stench’, otherwise known as “Damnatio memoriae”!

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago

Oh Charles your pretense is boundless, but amusing…

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago

Oh Charles your pretense is boundless, but amusing…

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Agreed with most of that, but not sure it would even be healthy electorialy speaking, for Rishi to win the next election.

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

“Pretty soon inflation and GDP growth will return to pre-Covid levels. This will put an end to the strikes and sense of financial insecurity. NHS backlogs will resolve themselves. Life will get back to normal and Rishi Sunak will probably win the next election.”
Dr Pangloss still lives it seems! What about the shit in the rivers? Will that too magically disappear? And NHS backlogs will resolve themselves!! I see 16 people like this optimism based on literally nothing.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

I don’t see why these indicators will not return to mean.
Take the NHS. There is a backlog of patients which was built up during the lockdown, that will now resolve itself. Take waiting times for ambulances (category 2 calls – second most urgent type). Prior to covid they took an average of 20-25 mins to arrive. Earlier in the year they were taking 90+ minutes. Today they are back to 30 mins. Same with waiting lists, waiting times in A&E etc. All these are falling and will fall further in the coming months.
Some of these things are related to each other e.g. energy prices are falling, so inflation is dropping and when it falls far enough, wage demands of strikers will shrink.Ending the strikes will boost growth.
Not sure about river pollution. I haven’t really heard much about it and when I looked it up it seems to be a Guardian/Daily Mirror issue – i.e. made up for political point scoring.

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Think you’ll find the poo problem is for real.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Think you’ll find the poo problem is for real.

B Emery
B Emery
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

.

Last edited 10 months ago by B Emery
Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

I don’t see why these indicators will not return to mean.
Take the NHS. There is a backlog of patients which was built up during the lockdown, that will now resolve itself. Take waiting times for ambulances (category 2 calls – second most urgent type). Prior to covid they took an average of 20-25 mins to arrive. Earlier in the year they were taking 90+ minutes. Today they are back to 30 mins. Same with waiting lists, waiting times in A&E etc. All these are falling and will fall further in the coming months.
Some of these things are related to each other e.g. energy prices are falling, so inflation is dropping and when it falls far enough, wage demands of strikers will shrink.Ending the strikes will boost growth.
Not sure about river pollution. I haven’t really heard much about it and when I looked it up it seems to be a Guardian/Daily Mirror issue – i.e. made up for political point scoring.

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
B Emery
B Emery
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

.

Last edited 10 months ago by B Emery
Nicholas Rynn
Nicholas Rynn
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

And squadrons of pigs will fly. At 68 I have, for half a century, voted Conservative. I will deliberately spoil my vote next time around, I cannot not vote Tory.

This is the Party that gave us in quick succession the biggest liar and charlatan to have ever sat in the PMs chair and followed it by giving us the most incompetent.

My MP is a decent and competent representative: until he and others rebuild the Party’s reputation they cannot ask for my support.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago
Reply to  Nicholas Rynn

The choice will be between Rishi Sunak and Kier Starmer. Past PMs are irrelevant to people’s decisions otherwise who on earth would have voted Tory in 2019 after Teresa May?
It seems to me that Sunak is far better on almost all measures than Starmer. I suspect that many 2019 Tory voters will reach the same conclusion. Indeed the tightening polls suggest they are already.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago
Reply to  Nicholas Rynn

The choice will be between Rishi Sunak and Kier Starmer. Past PMs are irrelevant to people’s decisions otherwise who on earth would have voted Tory in 2019 after Teresa May?
It seems to me that Sunak is far better on almost all measures than Starmer. I suspect that many 2019 Tory voters will reach the same conclusion. Indeed the tightening polls suggest they are already.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Sounds a bit wishful thinking to me. Hope you are right but I certainly wouldn’t bet on it

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

A bit optimistic, we still have an employment problem, and lots of underinvestment and decaying infrastructure ie electricity and sewerage, so work in progress. Oh and no social care… I could go on.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Spot on! Even Aeschylus, Sophocles, or even Euripides couldn’t have dreamt up such a TRAGEDY!

However one cannot exculpate Johnson & Cummings for their absolutely pathetic response to the great Covid Panic/Scam.

As a result of their abject dereliction of duty, the hard won ‘Red Wall’ is probably lost for a generation. Whilst I admire you optimism, sadly I cannot share it.

Johnson & Cummings should be thrown into the ‘Pit of Eternal Stench’, otherwise known as “Damnatio memoriae”!

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Agreed with most of that, but not sure it would even be healthy electorialy speaking, for Rishi to win the next election.

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

“Pretty soon inflation and GDP growth will return to pre-Covid levels. This will put an end to the strikes and sense of financial insecurity. NHS backlogs will resolve themselves. Life will get back to normal and Rishi Sunak will probably win the next election.”
Dr Pangloss still lives it seems! What about the shit in the rivers? Will that too magically disappear? And NHS backlogs will resolve themselves!! I see 16 people like this optimism based on literally nothing.

Nicholas Rynn
Nicholas Rynn
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

And squadrons of pigs will fly. At 68 I have, for half a century, voted Conservative. I will deliberately spoil my vote next time around, I cannot not vote Tory.

This is the Party that gave us in quick succession the biggest liar and charlatan to have ever sat in the PMs chair and followed it by giving us the most incompetent.

My MP is a decent and competent representative: until he and others rebuild the Party’s reputation they cannot ask for my support.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Sounds a bit wishful thinking to me. Hope you are right but I certainly wouldn’t bet on it

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
10 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

A bit optimistic, we still have an employment problem, and lots of underinvestment and decaying infrastructure ie electricity and sewerage, so work in progress. Oh and no social care… I could go on.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

This is the return of the “Remaniers Revenge/LibDems one-step-from-victory” story that was so prevalent in the run-up to the 2019 election in which the majority of the Lib Dems, including their leader and all the Remainer Tory turncoats all lost their seats.
As a reminder, we had a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic which resulted in the unprecedented two-year-long shutdown of the world economy and was followed by a disruption to the energy market equivalent to the 1973 Oil Crisis.
Many commentators seem to forget this and believe that our economic woes are somehow to do with Boris eating some cake or a minor increase in paperwork to move fresh sausages from Dover to Calais following us leaving the EU.
Pretty soon inflation and GDP growth will return to pre-Covid levels. This will put an end to the strikes and sense of financial insecurity. NHS backlogs will resolve themselves. Life will get back to normal and Rishi Sunak will probably win the next election.

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
Neil Ross
Neil Ross
10 months ago

No mention of the 9 million population increase since the start of the century – wonder why not?

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago
Reply to  Neil Ross

This is a number often denied as being various immigration policies – if anything its on the low side.

On the other side around 1.2m UK people went to live in EU. Permanently or otherwise. Puts it into perspective me thinks.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Neil Ross

Some 20 years ago I worked for a large supermarket on their database, and their data, as reported in one of the MSM papers suggested that around those 20 years ago they were supporting a population of over 70 million. Given the latest Covid data from the ONS one wonders IF Govts knew and have conveniently ‘massaged’ the population figures ever since. it might explain the failures of our infrastructure, including sewage treatment.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago
Reply to  Neil Ross

This is a number often denied as being various immigration policies – if anything its on the low side.

On the other side around 1.2m UK people went to live in EU. Permanently or otherwise. Puts it into perspective me thinks.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Neil Ross

Some 20 years ago I worked for a large supermarket on their database, and their data, as reported in one of the MSM papers suggested that around those 20 years ago they were supporting a population of over 70 million. Given the latest Covid data from the ONS one wonders IF Govts knew and have conveniently ‘massaged’ the population figures ever since. it might explain the failures of our infrastructure, including sewage treatment.

Neil Ross
Neil Ross
10 months ago

No mention of the 9 million population increase since the start of the century – wonder why not?

tom j
tom j
10 months ago

I submit to noone in my contempt for the Tories, but the idea that the big move is to switch my vote to the Lib Dems is beyond tedious.

Andy White
Andy White
10 months ago
Reply to  tom j

Tedious? Yes, but also the rules of the game called First Past The Post. In the Home Counties, it is usually the Lib Dems who have the best chance of beating the Conservatives. So if you really, really want the Tories out, you vote for them. It’s about prioritising who you *don’t* want, not who you do want. It may not be “the big move” you’re looking for, but them’s the rules.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago
Reply to  Andy White

Lib Dams had their chance to change the system via a referendum. They lost but like the much fabled WW2 Japanese soldier – they never give up.

Sounds more than a little like some poor brexit non-brexit related souls.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago
Reply to  Andy White

Lib Dams had their chance to change the system via a referendum. They lost but like the much fabled WW2 Japanese soldier – they never give up.

Sounds more than a little like some poor brexit non-brexit related souls.

Andy White
Andy White
10 months ago
Reply to  tom j

Tedious? Yes, but also the rules of the game called First Past The Post. In the Home Counties, it is usually the Lib Dems who have the best chance of beating the Conservatives. So if you really, really want the Tories out, you vote for them. It’s about prioritising who you *don’t* want, not who you do want. It may not be “the big move” you’re looking for, but them’s the rules.

tom j
tom j
10 months ago

I submit to noone in my contempt for the Tories, but the idea that the big move is to switch my vote to the Lib Dems is beyond tedious.

B Emery
B Emery
10 months ago

Surrey is like the rest of England; it’s becoming a shithole.”

About sums it up.

swimming pond in Fetcham, which is now, as one local told me, “full of shit”

So is the river wye, I don’t want to take my little one in it in a kayak anymore last report I read said there were now actual t**d islands in it. We were really ill last time we went near it. Bleak.
Didn’t we actually invent modern sewer systems and make the Thames much cleaner over a hundred years ago? How is this technological progress in the 21st century. Why can I not even take my boat out without encountering islands of shit. What do they spend our billions on.

Tony Price
Tony Price
10 months ago
Reply to  B Emery

Shareholder dividends, with borrowed money, is the answer to you question.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Or else there are far more people contributing to those Islands than Government data would have you believe? They say that the Census is to enable decisions to be made on infrastructure. IF we are only deciding on say 67 million, but there are actually over 70 million Shareholders may be getting the blame unfairly.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Or else there are far more people contributing to those Islands than Government data would have you believe? They say that the Census is to enable decisions to be made on infrastructure. IF we are only deciding on say 67 million, but there are actually over 70 million Shareholders may be getting the blame unfairly.

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
10 months ago
Reply to  B Emery

In my book this alone is enough to condemn the tories forever, and i always thought of myself as a tory! The Wye was among the greatest,most majestic rivers of the country; but then, I knew it well when rivers, water, sewage, were the responsibility of water boards run by real civil servants. It is heart-breaking to see it, and the UK generally, in its current state. I sometimes feel glad to be entering my final decade so won’t have to see too much more of the country’s decay.

B Emery
B Emery
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

Lucky you, leaving us millennials with islands of t urds, I can’t wait.
The whole lot are hopeless. I don’t know what they are all messing about at apart from having a ridiculous culture war, tanking the economy with their ridiculous policies, fiddling while we burn.

Edit: Sorry that wasn’t meant to be so cutting, I’m in that kind of mood today, read too much doom news.

Last edited 10 months ago by B Emery
Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

Perhaps the truth is the Tories never really cared anyway – as long as they could get the likes of you to vote for them. And they have certainly been good at that for many years

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

And what precisely would the Lib-Dems or Labour have done that was different? Oh, yes, I know, implemented lock-down for longer and harder, implemented Net Zero quicker and harder, driven the deficit higher. None of them are any better economically. The Tories MAY know what a woman is, but then again they may only be pretending they do, or are slightly more honest than Starmer in not pretending that they have no idea whatsoever. The Tories must collapse, then Labour may follow, but the state we are in isn’t going to get better with the Lib-Dems or Labour in power.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

And what precisely would the Lib-Dems or Labour have done that was different? Oh, yes, I know, implemented lock-down for longer and harder, implemented Net Zero quicker and harder, driven the deficit higher. None of them are any better economically. The Tories MAY know what a woman is, but then again they may only be pretending they do, or are slightly more honest than Starmer in not pretending that they have no idea whatsoever. The Tories must collapse, then Labour may follow, but the state we are in isn’t going to get better with the Lib-Dems or Labour in power.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

The ‘privatisation’ surge was based on EU Competition Rules, and those ‘CIvil Servants’ in the UK implemented them with zeal. Unlike Germany and France – hence EDF is now ALL Government owned again. (It’s also up to its eyes in debt, but that is another story and hopefully the French will pay that, and not the English Consumer)

B Emery
B Emery
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

Lucky you, leaving us millennials with islands of t urds, I can’t wait.
The whole lot are hopeless. I don’t know what they are all messing about at apart from having a ridiculous culture war, tanking the economy with their ridiculous policies, fiddling while we burn.

Edit: Sorry that wasn’t meant to be so cutting, I’m in that kind of mood today, read too much doom news.

Last edited 10 months ago by B Emery
Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

Perhaps the truth is the Tories never really cared anyway – as long as they could get the likes of you to vote for them. And they have certainly been good at that for many years

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

The ‘privatisation’ surge was based on EU Competition Rules, and those ‘CIvil Servants’ in the UK implemented them with zeal. Unlike Germany and France – hence EDF is now ALL Government owned again. (It’s also up to its eyes in debt, but that is another story and hopefully the French will pay that, and not the English Consumer)

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  B Emery

The upper reaches of the River Arun (Sussex) are t**d free I gather Ms Emery.
Plus most of the stuff in the Wye is generated by Chickens not humans, not that is any improvement!

B Emery
B Emery
10 months ago

Yes, thank you, much better!
Anyway, yes chickens I have heard are a problem too, think there have been shortages of sewage treatment chemicals since covid though and also when it floods they dump it raw into the river then too. Lovely.

Last edited 10 months ago by B Emery
B Emery
B Emery
10 months ago

Yes, thank you, much better!
Anyway, yes chickens I have heard are a problem too, think there have been shortages of sewage treatment chemicals since covid though and also when it floods they dump it raw into the river then too. Lovely.

Last edited 10 months ago by B Emery
Tony Price
Tony Price
10 months ago
Reply to  B Emery

Shareholder dividends, with borrowed money, is the answer to you question.

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
10 months ago
Reply to  B Emery

In my book this alone is enough to condemn the tories forever, and i always thought of myself as a tory! The Wye was among the greatest,most majestic rivers of the country; but then, I knew it well when rivers, water, sewage, were the responsibility of water boards run by real civil servants. It is heart-breaking to see it, and the UK generally, in its current state. I sometimes feel glad to be entering my final decade so won’t have to see too much more of the country’s decay.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  B Emery

The upper reaches of the River Arun (Sussex) are t**d free I gather Ms Emery.
Plus most of the stuff in the Wye is generated by Chickens not humans, not that is any improvement!

B Emery
B Emery
10 months ago

Surrey is like the rest of England; it’s becoming a shithole.”

About sums it up.

swimming pond in Fetcham, which is now, as one local told me, “full of shit”

So is the river wye, I don’t want to take my little one in it in a kayak anymore last report I read said there were now actual t**d islands in it. We were really ill last time we went near it. Bleak.
Didn’t we actually invent modern sewer systems and make the Thames much cleaner over a hundred years ago? How is this technological progress in the 21st century. Why can I not even take my boat out without encountering islands of shit. What do they spend our billions on.

Mark Goodhand
Mark Goodhand
10 months ago

It’s hard to take the article seriously after you hit this line:

More recently, some of the country’s most expensive mortgages were among those hit hardest by the Truss Budget

Mark Goodhand
Mark Goodhand
10 months ago

It’s hard to take the article seriously after you hit this line:

More recently, some of the country’s most expensive mortgages were among those hit hardest by the Truss Budget

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
10 months ago

Hmm. When my parents moved to Gerrards Cross in 1960 they bought a house on Kingsway for about £6,000. The house sold for £1,950,000 in Oct 2022.
Just sayin’.
But then, when I was a lad at Uni in 1965, a pint was 2/6. Today it’s £4-£8.
What’s wrong with the world? It’s sick and wrong.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

.

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago

Petrol @ 4/6 a gallon…..sheer nectar!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
10 months ago

It’s no substitute for meths.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Travelling by rail (steam) in the late 50’s early 60’s a decent meal in the Dinning Car would cost you the following:

Whisky & Soda: 5/6
Smoked Salmon: 7/6
English Lamb Cutlets: 8/6
Cheese & Biscuits : 2/-
Coffee: 8d
All washed down with a decent bottle of Mâcon: 13/-
Cigarettes, 20+ Senior Service: 5/6

So, exclusive of Wine & Cigarettes but not the Whisky & Soda! You were looking at a bill of :£1. 4/2.

Incidentally a first class single to say Birmingham Snow Hill would set you back a further: £ 1. 15/-
Second class: £1. 3/6

All this when a ‘working man ‘ earned about £8-10 a week!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
10 months ago

On a slightly less salubrious note, my first school busfare was three ha’ pence. So i walked and saved it, which bought a considerable amount at the tuck shop!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
10 months ago

On a slightly less salubrious note, my first school busfare was three ha’ pence. So i walked and saved it, which bought a considerable amount at the tuck shop!

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Travelling by rail (steam) in the late 50’s early 60’s a decent meal in the Dinning Car would cost you the following:

Whisky & Soda: 5/6
Smoked Salmon: 7/6
English Lamb Cutlets: 8/6
Cheese & Biscuits : 2/-
Coffee: 8d
All washed down with a decent bottle of Mâcon: 13/-
Cigarettes, 20+ Senior Service: 5/6

So, exclusive of Wine & Cigarettes but not the Whisky & Soda! You were looking at a bill of :£1. 4/2.

Incidentally a first class single to say Birmingham Snow Hill would set you back a further: £ 1. 15/-
Second class: £1. 3/6

All this when a ‘working man ‘ earned about £8-10 a week!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
10 months ago

It’s no substitute for meths.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago

It ain’t the world, it is Governments, they lay the blame on the fantasists known as Central Bankers and Economists. Every 10 years of my life the value of the £ has effectively halved. FIAT currencies are a politician’s dream, that and a Central Bank – until the point they become the politician’s nightmare. Truss gets a bad press, she simply lifted the lid on the mess, and the BoE opted to sacrifice her Government to save its Pension Fund if some reports are to be believed, and below are a few of ‘some reports’.
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/10/pay-bank-of-england
and
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/10/pay-bank-of-england
one of the more interesting snippets in the above is the ‘indemnity’ given to the BoE by the Treasury.
It’s a classic community earning its living by taking in the neighbours washing.
The BoE bails out the Treasury by buying their Gilts.(aka QE) The Treasury, when the BoE starts making losses on the Gilts, then bails out the BoE.
As far as I know, the only Central Bank to get indemnity for QE is the BoE – a pity they aren’t as smart when it comes to managing the interest/inflation for the rest of us as they are covering their rear end.
This recent BBC report on the Economist blaming wage rises for inflation and saying ‘people need to accept they are poorer’ is classic. I believe he earned close on £100K – perhaps earning that much I could afford to be 10% poorer. Perhaps Govt needs to cut his pay by 10% and see how well that goes down. He certainly hasn’t done his job IF he works at the BoE.

Matt M
Matt M
10 months ago

.

Last edited 10 months ago by Matt M
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago

Petrol @ 4/6 a gallon…..sheer nectar!

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago

It ain’t the world, it is Governments, they lay the blame on the fantasists known as Central Bankers and Economists. Every 10 years of my life the value of the £ has effectively halved. FIAT currencies are a politician’s dream, that and a Central Bank – until the point they become the politician’s nightmare. Truss gets a bad press, she simply lifted the lid on the mess, and the BoE opted to sacrifice her Government to save its Pension Fund if some reports are to be believed, and below are a few of ‘some reports’.
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/10/pay-bank-of-england
and
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/10/pay-bank-of-england
one of the more interesting snippets in the above is the ‘indemnity’ given to the BoE by the Treasury.
It’s a classic community earning its living by taking in the neighbours washing.
The BoE bails out the Treasury by buying their Gilts.(aka QE) The Treasury, when the BoE starts making losses on the Gilts, then bails out the BoE.
As far as I know, the only Central Bank to get indemnity for QE is the BoE – a pity they aren’t as smart when it comes to managing the interest/inflation for the rest of us as they are covering their rear end.
This recent BBC report on the Economist blaming wage rises for inflation and saying ‘people need to accept they are poorer’ is classic. I believe he earned close on £100K – perhaps earning that much I could afford to be 10% poorer. Perhaps Govt needs to cut his pay by 10% and see how well that goes down. He certainly hasn’t done his job IF he works at the BoE.

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
10 months ago

Hmm. When my parents moved to Gerrards Cross in 1960 they bought a house on Kingsway for about £6,000. The house sold for £1,950,000 in Oct 2022.
Just sayin’.
But then, when I was a lad at Uni in 1965, a pint was 2/6. Today it’s £4-£8.
What’s wrong with the world? It’s sick and wrong.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago

You actually quote:  “The Tory party needs to die,” says Westminster’s new Liberal Democrat candidate” – and you expect me to take your long list of ills’ seriously?
Yes, of course many of the things in your list are true – as they would have been under a certain Anthony Bliar & ”G-Bee” – but to write off the Worlds longest and oldest Governing party on a few soundbites is a bit too far. Maybe the soundbites come to you as a complete surprise? – Having been around a bit, frankly ”I have heard it all before”.
Yes: The Tories are in a complete mess and have lost voters and will lose many more – (including me) and they deserve to. Thankfully The Labour Party of Corbyn has gone – and Starmer, whilst I wont be voting for anyone who cannot work out what a Woman is, is surprisingly no longer ”supporting Corbyn 100%” – I wonder why?

Your mates – The Lib Dems are not going to be in Government any time soon – me thinks. Haedly anyone knows anythign about them – not even who their leadr actually is – let along pick them out in a Police line up.
The Scottish labour gains will give labour the seats they need to scrape over the line – without a coalition. My opinion only – other opinions are available, but not from me.

rob drummond
rob drummond
10 months ago

You actually quote:  “The Tory party needs to die,” says Westminster’s new Liberal Democrat candidate” – and you expect me to take your long list of ills’ seriously?
Yes, of course many of the things in your list are true – as they would have been under a certain Anthony Bliar & ”G-Bee” – but to write off the Worlds longest and oldest Governing party on a few soundbites is a bit too far. Maybe the soundbites come to you as a complete surprise? – Having been around a bit, frankly ”I have heard it all before”.
Yes: The Tories are in a complete mess and have lost voters and will lose many more – (including me) and they deserve to. Thankfully The Labour Party of Corbyn has gone – and Starmer, whilst I wont be voting for anyone who cannot work out what a Woman is, is surprisingly no longer ”supporting Corbyn 100%” – I wonder why?

Your mates – The Lib Dems are not going to be in Government any time soon – me thinks. Haedly anyone knows anythign about them – not even who their leadr actually is – let along pick them out in a Police line up.
The Scottish labour gains will give labour the seats they need to scrape over the line – without a coalition. My opinion only – other opinions are available, but not from me.

J Boyd
J Boyd
10 months ago

I will not be voting Conservative next month, mainly because I have had enough of concreting over the countryside around my town (in the Tory heartlands). Not only have we lost huge swathes of green belt, but the increased population has stretched the local NHS to breaking point and led to traffic gridlock.
The Conservative Party needs to understand that a huge chunk of its support will never accept ‘growth’ at the expense of loss of the countryside and damage to its quality of life.
To put it bluntly, it can decide to side with the developers and free market headbangers who constantly snipe at ‘NIMBYs’, even though we have built millions of houses and the cause of the ‘housing crisis’ clearly isn’t lack of supply, but excess demand due to buy to let etc. If it does, it will alienate its traditional voters and lose the South East.
Or it can decide that it actually is a conservative party and start conserving things.

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  J Boyd

Supposed excess demand from buy to let cannot drive up the price of housing unless the properties bought are not occupied. The root causes of ridiculously house prices are a combination of cheap money (still priced too cheap – real interest rates hugely negative), excess housing demand (immigration, smaller household units/family breakdown) and government subsidies (ridiculous policies like help to buy; housing benefit). All of these need to be addressed. None are taken seriously or have been for over 20 years.

J Boyd
J Boyd
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Agree with most of this, except the first line: the popularity of buy-to-let increases demand and drives up purchase prices. Conversely, it may help keep rental costs down, but the two are different.

J Boyd
J Boyd
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Agree with most of this, except the first line: the popularity of buy-to-let increases demand and drives up purchase prices. Conversely, it may help keep rental costs down, but the two are different.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  J Boyd

I sympathise. The trouble is conservativism never was consistent with free market zealotry. And many Tory voters don’t seem to understand what that means. That’s why they voted for Truss the most anti – conservative of politicians.

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  J Boyd

Supposed excess demand from buy to let cannot drive up the price of housing unless the properties bought are not occupied. The root causes of ridiculously house prices are a combination of cheap money (still priced too cheap – real interest rates hugely negative), excess housing demand (immigration, smaller household units/family breakdown) and government subsidies (ridiculous policies like help to buy; housing benefit). All of these need to be addressed. None are taken seriously or have been for over 20 years.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  J Boyd

I sympathise. The trouble is conservativism never was consistent with free market zealotry. And many Tory voters don’t seem to understand what that means. That’s why they voted for Truss the most anti – conservative of politicians.

J Boyd
J Boyd
10 months ago

I will not be voting Conservative next month, mainly because I have had enough of concreting over the countryside around my town (in the Tory heartlands). Not only have we lost huge swathes of green belt, but the increased population has stretched the local NHS to breaking point and led to traffic gridlock.
The Conservative Party needs to understand that a huge chunk of its support will never accept ‘growth’ at the expense of loss of the countryside and damage to its quality of life.
To put it bluntly, it can decide to side with the developers and free market headbangers who constantly snipe at ‘NIMBYs’, even though we have built millions of houses and the cause of the ‘housing crisis’ clearly isn’t lack of supply, but excess demand due to buy to let etc. If it does, it will alienate its traditional voters and lose the South East.
Or it can decide that it actually is a conservative party and start conserving things.

PETER THOM
PETER THOM
10 months ago

I don’t really know what the Tories, Liberals or New Labour really stand for anymore and I believe that they are all too heavily influenced by WEF major players. I’m putting my hope in Jordan Peterson’s ARC (Alliance of Responsible Citizens) initiative, to produce and drive an alternative vision to the WEF which will produce fairness and prosperity to all.

PETER THOM
PETER THOM
10 months ago

I don’t really know what the Tories, Liberals or New Labour really stand for anymore and I believe that they are all too heavily influenced by WEF major players. I’m putting my hope in Jordan Peterson’s ARC (Alliance of Responsible Citizens) initiative, to produce and drive an alternative vision to the WEF which will produce fairness and prosperity to all.

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
10 months ago

I’m no fan of the Lib Dems but I agree the Conservative Party must die. They have stopped being Conservative and so must go. The Lib Dems may have to play a part in their demise but I hope the ultimate beneficiary will be a real Conservative Party like Reform UK.

Oddly, I’m in Canada and I used to think about escaping to Britain but for all Canada’s problems, these days Britain is even worse.

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
10 months ago

I’m no fan of the Lib Dems but I agree the Conservative Party must die. They have stopped being Conservative and so must go. The Lib Dems may have to play a part in their demise but I hope the ultimate beneficiary will be a real Conservative Party like Reform UK.

Oddly, I’m in Canada and I used to think about escaping to Britain but for all Canada’s problems, these days Britain is even worse.

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
10 months ago

Seems rather absurd to blame the decline on Brexit, but whatever – its like trying to have a debate with a cat when they start on that supposed rationale.

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
10 months ago

Seems rather absurd to blame the decline on Brexit, but whatever – its like trying to have a debate with a cat when they start on that supposed rationale.

Martin Terrell
Martin Terrell
10 months ago

I get the same feeling from the eastern side of the Home Counties. The Tories have simply ended up upsetting as many sectors as possible. One Nation Remainer Tories aren’t coming back. Brexit voting socially conservative voters are disappointed and probably vindictive. The middle of the road professionals, suburban parents who aren’t that engaged politically will want to give Labour a chance. Is anyone left? A few pensioners, a few sensible types fearing worse under Labour, a few tribal Tories, enough save a deposit, but that’s about it.

Martin Terrell
Martin Terrell
10 months ago

I get the same feeling from the eastern side of the Home Counties. The Tories have simply ended up upsetting as many sectors as possible. One Nation Remainer Tories aren’t coming back. Brexit voting socially conservative voters are disappointed and probably vindictive. The middle of the road professionals, suburban parents who aren’t that engaged politically will want to give Labour a chance. Is anyone left? A few pensioners, a few sensible types fearing worse under Labour, a few tribal Tories, enough save a deposit, but that’s about it.

Stoater D
Stoater D
10 months ago

Chris Coughlan is correct, the Conservative party needs to die but so does his vile, fascist
Liberal Democrat party.
Had the LDs had their way, this country would have been locked down for years.
As much as I despise Labour and the Conservatives, the LibDems are a whole new level of hypocrisy. They disgust me.

Stoater D
Stoater D
10 months ago

Chris Coughlan is correct, the Conservative party needs to die but so does his vile, fascist
Liberal Democrat party.
Had the LDs had their way, this country would have been locked down for years.
As much as I despise Labour and the Conservatives, the LibDems are a whole new level of hypocrisy. They disgust me.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

ahhh Guildford man and Sevenoaks woman, with Courtenay at Tonbridge or ” Charterheouse” and Tyger Jade at St. Parvenoove Convent, white trainers and Teslas, golf club membership, Beards and Frantalle Lobotomi designer cleothing…..

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

ahhh Guildford man and Sevenoaks woman, with Courtenay at Tonbridge or ” Charterheouse” and Tyger Jade at St. Parvenoove Convent, white trainers and Teslas, golf club membership, Beards and Frantalle Lobotomi designer cleothing…..

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

I suspect that the great majority of people in Britain, not least at the top and and working peoples ends of society, are sick to death of having the whole of nu britn run by Pooter’s grandchildren from Kent, Surrey and East Sussex, who in Queen Victoria’s grand plan were always meant to be clutching quill pens and shuffling post industrialisation paper.

Having been carefully nurtured to never have to make decisions, move in tray to outray, obey orders, respect their betters, and live in insufferable snobbish fear of descending back into the working class, and what the neighbours think, it was never in a million years even imagined that they would end up running and destroying our country, when not at the golf club, Tesla showroom, or masonic lodge.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

I suspect that the great majority of people in Britain, not least at the top and and working peoples ends of society, are sick to death of having the whole of nu britn run by Pooter’s grandchildren from Kent, Surrey and East Sussex, who in Queen Victoria’s grand plan were always meant to be clutching quill pens and shuffling post industrialisation paper.

Having been carefully nurtured to never have to make decisions, move in tray to outray, obey orders, respect their betters, and live in insufferable snobbish fear of descending back into the working class, and what the neighbours think, it was never in a million years even imagined that they would end up running and destroying our country, when not at the golf club, Tesla showroom, or masonic lodge.

James Kirk
James Kirk
10 months ago

At least a LibDem government would be interesting, however unlikely. What would they do and how? Would the CS toe the line? I’m sure on how bad Sunak and Starmer are. No idea what Davey’s about or how he’d cooperate in a coalition. Doubt he’d be any worse than the main contenders. A chastened Tory Party might emerge after next week’s elections. Frost, Davies, IDS and Redman are mysteriously quiet. Reform seem to think it’s school holidays for all the fight they are putting up. Meanwhile Starmer has attacked Momentum at a time when the loony element need to be pacified.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

Dont worry all you Heome Ceounties… The Late Queen and current King’s racing manager is the son of a Harlow dustman, and ex stable lad, now married to an Earl’s daughter… there is hope for you all….

Peter Rigg
Peter Rigg
10 months ago

Gosh,are people really still discussing the economic effects of Brexit? The economic effects of Net Zero will be a thousand times greater. Yet no one discusses it and all the parties bar Reform are fully signed up to it.

Philip Stott
Philip Stott
10 months ago

As a resident of Mole Valley, and a Conservative voter for the last 30 years, my vote for Labour this next election will have nothing to do with local issues.
Rather it will be due to the (belated) realisation that we haven’t had a Conservative government for the last 13 years, just a bunch of Lib Dems with blue rosettes.
The Tories need to be utterly destroyed at the next GE, so that maybe Kemi can step up in 4 or 8 years time.

Last edited 10 months ago by Philip Stott
Philip Stott
Philip Stott
10 months ago

As a resident of Mole Valley, and a Conservative voter for the last 30 years, my vote for Labour this next election will have nothing to do with local issues.
Rather it will be due to the (belated) realisation that we haven’t had a Conservative government for the last 13 years, just a bunch of Lib Dems with blue rosettes.
The Tories need to be utterly destroyed at the next GE, so that maybe Kemi can step up in 4 or 8 years time.

Last edited 10 months ago by Philip Stott
John Murray
John Murray
10 months ago

Just one comment to make. Matt M’s statistics are presumably deliberately misleading. I suggest people don’t take them at face value and do their own research. Brexit hasn’t remotely delivered on the promises made in the referendum campaign, has made us poorer, and there is no evidence it will ever economically benefit us.

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  John Murray

What is all this stuff about “promises” ? The referendum was quite simply about whether you wanted to remain in the EU or not. That is a question of personal beliefs, feelings and instincts. Not the “promises” made by politicians – which were of variable quality on both sides.
Not that you’ll ever here that from the pro-EU side. They lost because they couldn’t or didn’t argue a sufficiently compelling case and people’s instincts were on balance to leave. Nearly seven years on, they still won’t take responsibility for their own failure. “Always the victims, never their fault”.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Odd argument. The result is the result. Not sure anyone needs to take responsibility. Certainly lies were used to justify the arguments. But that’s the trouble with a referendum, it’s not like there was a manifesto put forward by a political party who could be held to account.

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

They weren’t “lies”. They were options and opinions.
Brexit voters are constantly asked to “take responsibility” for what happened. I agree with you – we simply went out and voted and did our duty. We were never responsible for what came afterwards. Nor indeed were the Leave campaign. And that was obvious at the time. David Cameron explicitly said that he would implement the result. And then walked away when he lost.
If anyone’s responsible, it’s Cameron and those who enabled him. Blame all the MPs who voted for the terms of the referendum if you don’t think it was correctly set up (it certainly might have been done better, but the Leave campaign didn’t set the rules of the game – they just played the cards they were dealt).
And yes, the Remain campaign do need to take responsibility if they aren’t happy with the result. They also set the rules of the game (Cameron et al). It’s like a football team being relegated after an appallingly bad season and then complaining about a few refereeing decisions that went against them over the season – while ignoring any that went their own way and their own abysmal performance.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

I thought that remainers DID set the terms. Didn’t the Commons pass Benn’s bill that prevented us walking away with ‘No Deal’?

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

I thought that remainers DID set the terms. Didn’t the Commons pass Benn’s bill that prevented us walking away with ‘No Deal’?

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

They weren’t “lies”. They were options and opinions.
Brexit voters are constantly asked to “take responsibility” for what happened. I agree with you – we simply went out and voted and did our duty. We were never responsible for what came afterwards. Nor indeed were the Leave campaign. And that was obvious at the time. David Cameron explicitly said that he would implement the result. And then walked away when he lost.
If anyone’s responsible, it’s Cameron and those who enabled him. Blame all the MPs who voted for the terms of the referendum if you don’t think it was correctly set up (it certainly might have been done better, but the Leave campaign didn’t set the rules of the game – they just played the cards they were dealt).
And yes, the Remain campaign do need to take responsibility if they aren’t happy with the result. They also set the rules of the game (Cameron et al). It’s like a football team being relegated after an appallingly bad season and then complaining about a few refereeing decisions that went against them over the season – while ignoring any that went their own way and their own abysmal performance.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Odd argument. The result is the result. Not sure anyone needs to take responsibility. Certainly lies were used to justify the arguments. But that’s the trouble with a referendum, it’s not like there was a manifesto put forward by a political party who could be held to account.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  John Murray

I note that the war that dare not speak its name, the EU trade war against us gets no credit for the issues we suffer. Then again I don’t believe the majority of our rulers support Brexit. As most Remainers realise, they can’t achieve their desired aim of getting us back in IF they admit it. They learnt the lesson of the referendum, where they actually thought they’d win so weren’t shy about hiding their loyalties. Then they discovered that a rear-guard action in the Commons, Lords and Courts also wasn’t as effective as they hoped. Now they just lie. Vote Reform, if nothing else it might sweep away the dross that inhabits Westminster.

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  John Murray

What is all this stuff about “promises” ? The referendum was quite simply about whether you wanted to remain in the EU or not. That is a question of personal beliefs, feelings and instincts. Not the “promises” made by politicians – which were of variable quality on both sides.
Not that you’ll ever here that from the pro-EU side. They lost because they couldn’t or didn’t argue a sufficiently compelling case and people’s instincts were on balance to leave. Nearly seven years on, they still won’t take responsibility for their own failure. “Always the victims, never their fault”.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  John Murray

I note that the war that dare not speak its name, the EU trade war against us gets no credit for the issues we suffer. Then again I don’t believe the majority of our rulers support Brexit. As most Remainers realise, they can’t achieve their desired aim of getting us back in IF they admit it. They learnt the lesson of the referendum, where they actually thought they’d win so weren’t shy about hiding their loyalties. Then they discovered that a rear-guard action in the Commons, Lords and Courts also wasn’t as effective as they hoped. Now they just lie. Vote Reform, if nothing else it might sweep away the dross that inhabits Westminster.

John Murray
John Murray
10 months ago

Just one comment to make. Matt M’s statistics are presumably deliberately misleading. I suggest people don’t take them at face value and do their own research. Brexit hasn’t remotely delivered on the promises made in the referendum campaign, has made us poorer, and there is no evidence it will ever economically benefit us.

David Lindsay
David Lindsay
10 months ago

The parliamentary boundaries are being redrawn so as to restore normal service and stop General Elections from being decided in places that never voted for Thatcherism. Thatcherism at the time was a force both of and for social liberalism, and it was ferociously Eurofederalist, with any opposition to that project derided as “Loony Left”. The Thatcherite heartlands became the backbone of the Coalition, and they expressed their approval of its record by giving its Prime Minister an overall majority in 2015.

The South then largely voted Remain, in accordance with Conservative Party policy at the time. That party installed a Thames Valley Remainer as Leader and Prime Minister without any sort of election, and if the 2015 Parliament had run its course, then scores of seats would have turned from blue to yellow in 2020. That would also be true if the 2017 Parliament had run its course, with the overall result that Corbyn’s Labour would have been the largest party in the hung Parliament of 2022. Unsurprisingly, those Thatcherite, liberal, pro-EU areas are now preparing to return Liberal Democrats in 2024. Matters are being arranged so that theirs would once again be the votes that mattered.

David Lindsay
David Lindsay
10 months ago

The parliamentary boundaries are being redrawn so as to restore normal service and stop General Elections from being decided in places that never voted for Thatcherism. Thatcherism at the time was a force both of and for social liberalism, and it was ferociously Eurofederalist, with any opposition to that project derided as “Loony Left”. The Thatcherite heartlands became the backbone of the Coalition, and they expressed their approval of its record by giving its Prime Minister an overall majority in 2015.

The South then largely voted Remain, in accordance with Conservative Party policy at the time. That party installed a Thames Valley Remainer as Leader and Prime Minister without any sort of election, and if the 2015 Parliament had run its course, then scores of seats would have turned from blue to yellow in 2020. That would also be true if the 2017 Parliament had run its course, with the overall result that Corbyn’s Labour would have been the largest party in the hung Parliament of 2022. Unsurprisingly, those Thatcherite, liberal, pro-EU areas are now preparing to return Liberal Democrats in 2024. Matters are being arranged so that theirs would once again be the votes that mattered.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago

The Right eating itself should provide quite a bit of schadenfreude for those who predicted much of his shambles. But reality is no one can take delight. The mess impacts on lives. We don’t get these years back, and all could have been so much better.
Sunak inching his way back to reality though on immigration deliverables and Brexit (i.e much closer alignment with EU). The crazies keep pulling him back to plummet off the end of the cliff, but does seem he’s gradually getting the measure of them. That means suspect he’ll ensure it’s closer in 24 GE than might appear now. Regardless the fundamental challenges will remain and the Right will continue to twist, turn and agonise about it’s own contradictions that have led to such a malaise

Last edited 10 months ago by j watson
Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Don’t worry about the down ticks – you are the sane one.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Tories – The Right? Hmm, only if the only thing that defines the ‘right’ is an objection to the mythology that sex isn’t biological and even this Tory party may not be of the right with that as the definition.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Don’t worry about the down ticks – you are the sane one.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Tories – The Right? Hmm, only if the only thing that defines the ‘right’ is an objection to the mythology that sex isn’t biological and even this Tory party may not be of the right with that as the definition.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago

The Right eating itself should provide quite a bit of schadenfreude for those who predicted much of his shambles. But reality is no one can take delight. The mess impacts on lives. We don’t get these years back, and all could have been so much better.
Sunak inching his way back to reality though on immigration deliverables and Brexit (i.e much closer alignment with EU). The crazies keep pulling him back to plummet off the end of the cliff, but does seem he’s gradually getting the measure of them. That means suspect he’ll ensure it’s closer in 24 GE than might appear now. Regardless the fundamental challenges will remain and the Right will continue to twist, turn and agonise about it’s own contradictions that have led to such a malaise

Last edited 10 months ago by j watson
Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
10 months ago

Labour is busy kicking out socialists and (woke drivel aside) quietly becoming the new Conservative party. Meantime, the original Conservative party largely has purged itself of conventional Major style conservatives and has transformed itself into a radical, disruptive, protectionist, English nationalist party. Interesting times.

polidori redux
polidori redux
10 months ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Sorry Frank, we all have our own opinions, but this:
“The original Conservative party … has transformed itself into a radical, disruptive, protectionist, English nationalist party. ”
Is simply delusional.
The policies advocated by the three main parties are, to all intents and purposes, identical – They might as well unite and save us the trouble. They are all bourgeois liberal.
You have been drinking the Kool Aid, if you cannot see this.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

O that it had Frank, but sadly there is no Oliver Cromwell in sight just yet, although I live in hope if not expectation.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

Perhaps we should put all the heome ceounties Tories into somewhere in Kent to be called ” BuchenWeald”?!!!!

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

Perhaps we should put all the heome ceounties Tories into somewhere in Kent to be called ” BuchenWeald”?!!!!

R Wright
R Wright
10 months ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

I would live to inhabit the fantasy world you live in where the uniparty doesn’t exist, there is real democracy and the parties actually offer solid platforms based on values. A true left and a true right. I’d give my left arm for that utopia over the ideological monoculture hellscape we live in.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
10 months ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

‘… transformed itself into a radical, disruptive, protectionist, English nationalist party.’
Ha ha ha ha! Dream on! If only…

polidori redux
polidori redux
10 months ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Sorry Frank, we all have our own opinions, but this:
“The original Conservative party … has transformed itself into a radical, disruptive, protectionist, English nationalist party. ”
Is simply delusional.
The policies advocated by the three main parties are, to all intents and purposes, identical – They might as well unite and save us the trouble. They are all bourgeois liberal.
You have been drinking the Kool Aid, if you cannot see this.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

O that it had Frank, but sadly there is no Oliver Cromwell in sight just yet, although I live in hope if not expectation.

R Wright
R Wright
10 months ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

I would live to inhabit the fantasy world you live in where the uniparty doesn’t exist, there is real democracy and the parties actually offer solid platforms based on values. A true left and a true right. I’d give my left arm for that utopia over the ideological monoculture hellscape we live in.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
10 months ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

‘… transformed itself into a radical, disruptive, protectionist, English nationalist party.’
Ha ha ha ha! Dream on! If only…

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
10 months ago

Labour is busy kicking out socialists and (woke drivel aside) quietly becoming the new Conservative party. Meantime, the original Conservative party largely has purged itself of conventional Major style conservatives and has transformed itself into a radical, disruptive, protectionist, English nationalist party. Interesting times.