“The objective for today is to come back alive.” Yevgeny is a young commando from the “Mad Pack”, a special forces unit that has been fighting in Bakhmut since November. His words are familiar — lacquered with that mix of emotions common to almost all soldiers fighting on the frontlines of war: laughter and unease. We clamber into a Land Cruiser and head toward the city. “The situation is always changing,” he continues. “But one thing remains the same: the line of contact is always active.”
Even by the standards of eastern Ukraine, Bakhmut is a hellscape of destruction. Electricity has been out since August and water since October. Rows of uniform Soviet-style buildings now resemble a series of ragged molars, mottled by shells and blackened with soot.
The streets of this city that once had a population of 70,000 are almost empty of civilians, save for the odd elderly man or woman who ambles past amid the constant drum of nearby shelling. Everywhere I look I see soldiers: standing guard, advancing forwards, taking cover, congregating in doorways and behind walls, and almost always smoking. Our first port of call is a mosque. A small squat rectangular box that could be a normal house save for a small golden dome on its roof. Kazbek, a Chechen soldier fighting for Ukraine, who is our guide with Yevgeny, gets out of the car and goes to pray, bowing to Mecca as shells explode around us.
If you want to discover the madness of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, come to Bakhmut. The battle for the city is now the longest of the war. Russia launched a large offensive to try to take it in July 2022 after it took Severodonetsk, the final major city of the Luhansk region. The truth is Russian troops are dying in their thousands here — and possibly for nothing. The UK Ministry of Defence has outlined Bakhmut’s “limited operational value”: the city’s fall would be useful, but by no means decisive, in helping Russia press further through the Donbas. The fight, therefore, has become almost symbolic. “Bakhmut holds” is now a rallying cry for Ukrainians.
We advance further into the city. I see my first civilian vehicle: a minibus covered in grime, onto which someone has painted a white cross. Then we see an old man walking on the pavement. Yevgeny asks why he hasn’t left. “Where would I go?” he responds. He tells me that he lives with some friends in the city and has a stove and a basement to hide in. We turn a corner, and the Land Cruiser skids across the wet and pitted road. “The full contact front is just there,” says Yevgeny, pointing. Kazbek explains what this means: “The Russians are just 200 metres down that road. Tomorrow, I will come back and kill them.”
Shelling is a constant refrain in Bakhmut. But this close it’s different. Shells whistle around me, deep throaty roars that crescendo to a colossal bang as they strike home. “Now the Russians are attacking Ukrainian positions from three sides,” says Kazbek by way of explanation. We climb back into the Land Cruiser and drive into what appears to be a fenced-off wasteland right by the line of contact. On a wall some graffiti reads, “the republic of Ichkeria [Chechnya] will be free. Russians will be dead.” A lone cyclist comes into view. “Stupid,” says Yevgeny.
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SubscribeThanks for the front line coverage. It resonates.
“It resonates”
I think you mean ‘It reverberates- conclusively’, the drumbeat of modern war.
If by “resonates” you mean “reads like pro-Nazi, anti-Russian propaganda and outright lies” then I agree. If any of you want a more accurate idea of what’s going on in this war, try “the duran” for some more evidence-based commentary.
It is a truly revolting article – and when your post was the only one here I wrote a long one explaining why – nothing offensive, but naturally it is deleted – the heads at Unherd are no different than any MSM in reality. Total Pu** ies and too afraid of free speech to go against the agenda.
IOW, the only “free speech” is YOUR speech.
All else is controlled by the MSM.
You DO know where that comes from don’t you? And where it leads?
Garbage!
I think you are flagging it. You are a right pain in the arse.
Free speech is “a pain the arse,” isn’t it?
If yours was the only voice we would all be happy.
Problem is mate, you are the one that thinks it shouldnt be allowed. That only your comments should be allowed. I haven’t ever flagged or complained to unherd about you. I’ve never flagged anyone.
Problem is mate, you are the one that thinks it shouldnt be allowed. That only your comments should be allowed. I haven’t ever flagged or complained to unherd about you. I’ve never flagged anyone.
Free speech is “a pain the arse,” isn’t it?
If yours was the only voice we would all be happy.
Garbage!
I think you are flagging it. You are a right pain in the arse.
Whereas you are a fighter for truth and peace–and anyone who brings up inconvenient facts is a troll.
One alternative might be to address the issues raised, and stop the accusations.
Just a suggestion…
Everytime I do that you resort to telling me you have no choice but to attack and me and wolfowitz will be happy together. You can’t have a sensible conversation. You have said awful stuff about both ukrainians and Russians.
Everytime I do that you resort to telling me you have no choice but to attack and me and wolfowitz will be happy together. You can’t have a sensible conversation. You have said awful stuff about both ukrainians and Russians.
IOW, the only “free speech” is YOUR speech.
All else is controlled by the MSM.
You DO know where that comes from don’t you? And where it leads?
Whereas you are a fighter for truth and peace–and anyone who brings up inconvenient facts is a troll.
One alternative might be to address the issues raised, and stop the accusations.
Just a suggestion…
“Russian troops are dying in their thousands”
And from what I’ve read elsewhere (not Russian propaganda) Ukrainian troops are dying in their tens of thousands.
The real story is here, but unintentionally. There’s the fact a brave (or mad) journalist was able to get to Bakhmut.
“Russia is attacking on three sides” – in other words, the Russians almost surround the city.
“Bakhmut has no operational significance” – then why defend it?
Anyone who has listened to the knowledgeable on Russia’s approach, knows that they favour creating “cauldrons”. Bakhmut appears to be one example.
And while the Russians create their cauldron at the speed of molasses they use artillery to annihilate Ukraine’s youth. Those that still remain in Ukraine at least.
“The Russians need this victory”
Not really. The Russians are using Bakhmut to entice Ukraine to send more troops to a place with “no operational significance” in order to destroy Ukraine’s remaining forces, prior to a late winter/early spring offensive.
Between 500,000 and 700,000 Russian troops have been assembled in three locations around Ukraine ready for their final onslaught. Bakhmut is a side-show.
This war, as with all others, is filled with propaganda and lies. For example, I heard recently from a previously trusted source, that Zelensky couldn’t even speak Ukrainian before he became President. Surely that can’t be true.
It really doesn’t matter how many troops Russia assembles. From the very start of Putin’s war, the incompetence of the Russian military leadership ensures their defeat. The Russian general staff are incapable of planning large-scale manoeuvre operations using combined arms. We’re already seeing a precursor to a Russian civil war through the interplay and tensions between the Russian Army and Wagner. Anyway, the Russians seem to have run out of T72s and are resorting to a mix of T62s and a very few much later T90s. Without tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, poorly trained men armed only with AK 47s have absolutely no chance of survival, they will just be scythed down. As this writer sees it, the risk to the well-equipped and well-trained Ukrainians comes from their psychological ability to continue with the slaughter. German formations in WW2 would collapse after being subjected to up to five Soviet assaults with horrific casualties on the Red Army side. Even the battle-hardened Wehrmacht simply couldn’t take it. For us in the West, the profligacy of the Russian leadership with their manpower is inconceivable and utterly shocking. All this from a country with a declining population as a result of a birth-rate below replacement. No wonder the Russians are estimated to have stolen large numbers of Ukrainian children. The Russians are covering their own losses in anticipation. Totally amoral and totally cynical.
It really doesn’t matter how many troops Russia assembles. From the very start of Putin’s war, the incompetence of the Russian military leadership ensures their defeat. The Russian general staff are incapable of planning large-scale manoeuvre operations using combined arms. We’re already seeing a precursor to a Russian civil war through the interplay and tensions between the Russian Army and Wagner. Anyway, the Russians seem to have run out of T72s and are resorting to a mix of T62s and a very few much later T90s. Without tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, poorly trained men armed only with AK 47s have absolutely no chance of survival, they will just be scythed down. As this writer sees it, the risk to the well-equipped and well-trained Ukrainians comes from their psychological ability to continue with the slaughter. German formations in WW2 would collapse after being subjected to up to five Soviet assaults with horrific casualties on the Red Army side. Even the battle-hardened Wehrmacht simply couldn’t take it. For us in the West, the profligacy of the Russian leadership with their manpower is inconceivable and utterly shocking. All this from a country with a declining population as a result of a birth-rate below replacement. No wonder the Russians are estimated to have stolen large numbers of Ukrainian children. The Russians are covering their own losses in anticipation. Totally amoral and totally cynical.
lies and huge propaganda against Russia from a greek american “patriot” of the most warlike country in the world!! USA= participates in 80% of the wars in Latin America and in the world….toppled governments and prepared coups in hundreds countries…worst propaganda since the Vietnam era!!! ..in the first place, what do the residents, the people in eastern-southern-coastal Ukraine want???..look and thnk at the results of the presidential elections 2004 or 2010… : or look with percentages 95% 85% 65% what the people of the south-coastal-eastern Ukraine and Crimea want : …before the armed fascist American coup d’état of 2014, where the right-wing nationalist right-Nazi alliance took power….like Poland-Baltics, 11 parties were banned (all left-wing, communist .. pro-Russian with the biggest party before 2014 !!!.. there are no more free elections .. only pro-American parties participate in the electoral game…) .. but Ukraine is neither Poland nor the Baltics .. not even Hungary ….. in eastern southern Ukraine there are a majority of Russians .. but also Ukrainian leftists, democrats .. anti-fascist Ukrainians ….in Ukraine there is a civil war from 2014 with 14,000 dead and 1,500,000 refugees …most eastern Ukrainians and southern Ukrainians (leftists, communists, general democrats, anti-fascists, Russians or Russian-speakers. Greeks,Μayars , national minorities, etc.) .. … the extreme right, anti-Russian, nationalist rulers in the country after the armed coup in Ukraine in 2014 we do not have free democratic elections but the US nationalist puppets ruled … the extreme right, anti-Russian, nationalist rulers in the country …. they expelled all the old officers – civil servants and placed young people everywhere with a qualification: they are nationalists – members of far-right groups ..in the army, in the state, in the diplomatic corps, in the municipalities ..everywhere ……the solution was: the Minsk Peace Agreement 2015 under the auspices of Germany-France-Russia …. did not sign it – it was abotaged by the US-England and their puppets….sabotage the Minsk Peace Accords 2015 ( the Minsk Agreement 2 : 1) free local elections with all parties (11 parties are banned after 2014) 2) federations in as many areas as they want = more democracies 3) neutralization = more money for society) … far-right nationalists ucranians for 8 years they built huge fortifications, cities fortresses with American money, American aid and know-how ….. For 8 years far-right nationalists could save peace and country but they obeyed the interests of the USAs WASPs …for 8 years oppress, torture, kill left-wing Ukrainians, Russians, Russian-speakers and minorities !! dozens of political prisoners labeled traitors or spies or communists or dissidents !! and all this with the blessings of the West !! for 8 years huge economic disaster for the Ukrainian economy …. 1 in 2 ucrainians workers left abroad (10 million, 1.2 million in Russia and 8 million in the west) ..and yet they continued the small war 2014-2021 and built hundreds fortress and fortifications !!!usefulle far-right nationalists ucranians destroyed their own homeland, destroyed since 2014 the unity of a united Ukraine!…. Ukrainians weren’t fighting for their homeland…The separatists of eastern-southern-coastal Ukraine were fighting for their homeland!!..a Ukrainian soldier is coming from hundreds of kilometers away (Lvov-Dοnietsk) 1,000 km distance!!!!! …the war is taking place in pro-Russian cities, villages, regions!!! the separatists were fighting, they are destroying their cities, their villages, their jobs..their properties..their children are in danger!!!…the Ukrainians are oppresser..occupation forces!!!! ..who will pay war reparations for the pro-Russian cities, villages, regions of the Autonomists?dangerous useful idiots who brought us closer to a world nuclear war … usefulle far-right nationalists criminals I have relatives in Ukraine … I expected from 2016 that Russia would intervene … I knew from the inside but I watched what was happening in Ukraine !!!..crimes, huge fear, a theater of absurdity as the Americans understand democracy (Latin style America-South Vietnam-South Korea-Taiwan etc) … how many Orthodox priests of the Patriarchate of Moscow have the nationalists murdered ???….only in the last months of 2022, 53 priests are in prison with the accusations of being above her of Russia and against the politics (nationalism) of the Kiev regime…..the Americans here too are lying but they are also the murderers…their purpose???…..to bleed, to weaken Russia, to exist hatred and blood between brotherly peoples and to subjugate all of Europe politically and economically (Germany-France, etc.)
“It resonates”
I think you mean ‘It reverberates- conclusively’, the drumbeat of modern war.
If by “resonates” you mean “reads like pro-Nazi, anti-Russian propaganda and outright lies” then I agree. If any of you want a more accurate idea of what’s going on in this war, try “the duran” for some more evidence-based commentary.
It is a truly revolting article – and when your post was the only one here I wrote a long one explaining why – nothing offensive, but naturally it is deleted – the heads at Unherd are no different than any MSM in reality. Total Pu** ies and too afraid of free speech to go against the agenda.
“Russian troops are dying in their thousands”
And from what I’ve read elsewhere (not Russian propaganda) Ukrainian troops are dying in their tens of thousands.
The real story is here, but unintentionally. There’s the fact a brave (or mad) journalist was able to get to Bakhmut.
“Russia is attacking on three sides” – in other words, the Russians almost surround the city.
“Bakhmut has no operational significance” – then why defend it?
Anyone who has listened to the knowledgeable on Russia’s approach, knows that they favour creating “cauldrons”. Bakhmut appears to be one example.
And while the Russians create their cauldron at the speed of molasses they use artillery to annihilate Ukraine’s youth. Those that still remain in Ukraine at least.
“The Russians need this victory”
Not really. The Russians are using Bakhmut to entice Ukraine to send more troops to a place with “no operational significance” in order to destroy Ukraine’s remaining forces, prior to a late winter/early spring offensive.
Between 500,000 and 700,000 Russian troops have been assembled in three locations around Ukraine ready for their final onslaught. Bakhmut is a side-show.
This war, as with all others, is filled with propaganda and lies. For example, I heard recently from a previously trusted source, that Zelensky couldn’t even speak Ukrainian before he became President. Surely that can’t be true.
lies and huge propaganda against Russia from a greek american “patriot” of the most warlike country in the world!! USA= participates in 80% of the wars in Latin America and in the world….toppled governments and prepared coups in hundreds countries…worst propaganda since the Vietnam era!!! ..in the first place, what do the residents, the people in eastern-southern-coastal Ukraine want???..look and thnk at the results of the presidential elections 2004 or 2010… : or look with percentages 95% 85% 65% what the people of the south-coastal-eastern Ukraine and Crimea want : …before the armed fascist American coup d’état of 2014, where the right-wing nationalist right-Nazi alliance took power….like Poland-Baltics, 11 parties were banned (all left-wing, communist .. pro-Russian with the biggest party before 2014 !!!.. there are no more free elections .. only pro-American parties participate in the electoral game…) .. but Ukraine is neither Poland nor the Baltics .. not even Hungary ….. in eastern southern Ukraine there are a majority of Russians .. but also Ukrainian leftists, democrats .. anti-fascist Ukrainians ….in Ukraine there is a civil war from 2014 with 14,000 dead and 1,500,000 refugees …most eastern Ukrainians and southern Ukrainians (leftists, communists, general democrats, anti-fascists, Russians or Russian-speakers. Greeks,Μayars , national minorities, etc.) .. … the extreme right, anti-Russian, nationalist rulers in the country after the armed coup in Ukraine in 2014 we do not have free democratic elections but the US nationalist puppets ruled … the extreme right, anti-Russian, nationalist rulers in the country …. they expelled all the old officers – civil servants and placed young people everywhere with a qualification: they are nationalists – members of far-right groups ..in the army, in the state, in the diplomatic corps, in the municipalities ..everywhere ……the solution was: the Minsk Peace Agreement 2015 under the auspices of Germany-France-Russia …. did not sign it – it was abotaged by the US-England and their puppets….sabotage the Minsk Peace Accords 2015 ( the Minsk Agreement 2 : 1) free local elections with all parties (11 parties are banned after 2014) 2) federations in as many areas as they want = more democracies 3) neutralization = more money for society) … far-right nationalists ucranians for 8 years they built huge fortifications, cities fortresses with American money, American aid and know-how ….. For 8 years far-right nationalists could save peace and country but they obeyed the interests of the USAs WASPs …for 8 years oppress, torture, kill left-wing Ukrainians, Russians, Russian-speakers and minorities !! dozens of political prisoners labeled traitors or spies or communists or dissidents !! and all this with the blessings of the West !! for 8 years huge economic disaster for the Ukrainian economy …. 1 in 2 ucrainians workers left abroad (10 million, 1.2 million in Russia and 8 million in the west) ..and yet they continued the small war 2014-2021 and built hundreds fortress and fortifications !!!usefulle far-right nationalists ucranians destroyed their own homeland, destroyed since 2014 the unity of a united Ukraine!…. Ukrainians weren’t fighting for their homeland…The separatists of eastern-southern-coastal Ukraine were fighting for their homeland!!..a Ukrainian soldier is coming from hundreds of kilometers away (Lvov-Dοnietsk) 1,000 km distance!!!!! …the war is taking place in pro-Russian cities, villages, regions!!! the separatists were fighting, they are destroying their cities, their villages, their jobs..their properties..their children are in danger!!!…the Ukrainians are oppresser..occupation forces!!!! ..who will pay war reparations for the pro-Russian cities, villages, regions of the Autonomists?dangerous useful idiots who brought us closer to a world nuclear war … usefulle far-right nationalists criminals I have relatives in Ukraine … I expected from 2016 that Russia would intervene … I knew from the inside but I watched what was happening in Ukraine !!!..crimes, huge fear, a theater of absurdity as the Americans understand democracy (Latin style America-South Vietnam-South Korea-Taiwan etc) … how many Orthodox priests of the Patriarchate of Moscow have the nationalists murdered ???….only in the last months of 2022, 53 priests are in prison with the accusations of being above her of Russia and against the politics (nationalism) of the Kiev regime…..the Americans here too are lying but they are also the murderers…their purpose???…..to bleed, to weaken Russia, to exist hatred and blood between brotherly peoples and to subjugate all of Europe politically and economically (Germany-France, etc.)
Thanks for the front line coverage. It resonates.
To me, this was a worthwhile peek inside the eye of the storm. The article is quite openly biased, as a piece of embedded journalism, or any non-fringe Western view of this conflict is likely to be. I’m fine with that. I could access ultra-right-wing media or even Russian propaganda for “balance” if I were so inclined and had better firewalls on my pc.
Or I can be exposed to some offshoot of Russian State TV by certain prominent commenters here. Why is it that those of a nationalistic or even Western Chauvinist bent are often such easy fans of this Soviet-revivalist Russian regime? (I think I’m correct to find significant overlap there). Is it part of a reflexive opposition to any stance that is seen as mainstream or liberal/progressive?
Certainly this war is hellish and not really good for anyone, and this article doesn’t run from that, sympathetic bias notwithstanding. But this fight is undoubtedly, understandably–and by demonstrated sacrifice and valor (on the whole)–preferable to non-existence from a Ukrainian perspective. And Russia could end this tomorrow without any threat to its military, legitimate sovereignty, or status as the geographically largest nation on the globe. The only increased threat would be, perhaps, to Putin himself, who would have been better off even from a calculating, self-interested point-of-view if he’d let this one go to begin with.
“Russia could end this tomorrow without any threat to its military, legitimate sovereignty, or status…”
The same could be said about NATO and America as well. Thirty years of warnings that Ukraine was the red line have been brushed aside by the West, and this is the provocation that has produced Putin’s response. To see this, one would have to understand that the Imperial West cannot be trusted. Our own history of multiple invasions and regime change efforts–let alone the colonialist history of key EU states–confirms this. There is no innocent intent when it comes to the deceptions and bad behavior on the part of this western Offensive (not defensive) alliance.
No. Ending it on the Ukraine-Western side means the end of Ukraine in any meaningful sense. Ending it from the Russian side means the non-increase (or in their view, non-recovery) of Russian soil, stopping the bloodbath and helping to curtail Putin’s imperial ambitions. It is Putin who has brushed aside warnings and miscalculated. Let him have this one you seem to say, in the interest of a tense a servile peace. How about the next one?
Yes, the US has an imperial past and present but it hasn’t annexed territory since 1898. And when we go into places around the globe and try to control or “Americanize” them more recently that doesn’t really work out well in the long run does it? This intervention is a far more legitimate defense of Western interests or Ukrainian national sovereignty than the weak pretense of Kuwaiti sovereignty made for Desert Storm in 1990. Or of mostly-futile nation-building efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere.
I’d like to know from some/any among the multitude of anti-Ukraine-intervention voices here: Are you just against intervention, or actively rooting for a decrease in US world power and consequent increase in the power of Russia and China?
Because I’m not an unqualified supporter of American power and influence, but I’ll take it over the plausible alternatives.
Geez.. you guys are suckers for the MSM.. the US has effectively annexed almost every nation on Earth (except the BRICS) via neo liberalism.. much easier than neocolonialism in turn much easier than colonialism..
Don’t you find it odd that while you are happy to stay with American hegemony the BRICS nations, most of Africa, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and now much of Latin America have had enough!
Wow, so when the EU does things the US doesn’t like, or the UK doesn’t, it’s all just a conspiracy to hide the fact the US pulls the all strings.
And this ingenious master mind who controls most of the first world is…
Joe Biden?!?
If you prefer BRICS, why aren’t you living in one of them? I love how these people living in North America and Europe are so against their own countries, but wouldn’t dream of living in the ones they promote all the time as a better alternative. DUH.
Wow, so when the EU does things the US doesn’t like, or the UK doesn’t, it’s all just a conspiracy to hide the fact the US pulls the all strings.
And this ingenious master mind who controls most of the first world is…
Joe Biden?!?
If you prefer BRICS, why aren’t you living in one of them? I love how these people living in North America and Europe are so against their own countries, but wouldn’t dream of living in the ones they promote all the time as a better alternative. DUH.
I have a very conflicted view to all this. Let me try and lay it out. Because I have been pretty anti us. But I have also been anti russia and China. So.
I’m pissed at the us for its lies over Iraq, im slightly aggravated by the fact its multinationals have made a lot of money in China, we have off shored everything there and now all of a sudden its no good, we must stop dealing with them. A bit like the Russian energy. Same idea. Let’s do it, actually no. That’s going to cause carnage. All you old people have bought Chinese goods then turn round to young people and say actually no, we’ve given the crazy communists too much money and we must fight them. OK. Great, thanks guys.
I don’t like how your fbi etc censor twitter etc etc I don’t like the way you just constantly use qe as an answer.
Next. The ccp could well be responsible for covid, are probably as dodgy as every b*gger else just like the Russians. I am also very sceptical of their intentions.
If your a millennial all this is very confusing. Lies everywhere on all sides. Collapsing the current global order is f*cking worrying. Some people, like my good self just are wondering if actually we could all calm down, try and find some understanding on all sides and deal with the power balance change without escalation towards nuclear conflict. You know. That’s all really. There is a few points to say the us hasn’t helped the situation. That’s not to say that the ccp and Russia aren’t also merrily causing carnage. Tbh they’re all at it and Europe is stuck in the middle, wondering how long until they all kick off properly and how bad it’s likely to be. In my humble opinion.
I’m actually pretty sympathetic to most of these points, although I don’t share all your demographics as a 50-ish male American born in Canada.
I’d like Europe to help lead the way to a less contentious world order, if possible. But most of the outspoken commenters here are, if not straight up rah rah pro-Brexit, suspicious of anything Continental or multi-lateral that seems to threaten local pubs and restaurants, familiar population makeup, etc. I’m not saying there aren’t complex and valid reasons to reject membership in the EU. But it’s a bit much to be a roaring Little England Brexiteer and then talk about the critical imperative of taming the American Beast (whenever such commenters are the same people-I admit I sometimes lose track).
The above is not meant to refer to your own views, and I’m not sure where you stand on all the recurring, ongoing world and UK-specific issues that come up here. I have noticed that you’re not easy to pin at one place on the political-cultural-philosophical spectrum, which I respect. I often disagree with you but can only conclude that your a thoughtful and worthy participant in the UnHerd.
“wondering if actually we could all calm down, try and find some understanding on all sides and deal with the power balance change without escalation towards nuclear conflict”. Amen to that!
As much as I’m in sympathy with Ukraine’s cause, I am troubled by this escalation on both sides. (Let’s be honest, whatever the scales used, it isn’t unidirectional in either direction).
And while I remain very opinionated in my middle years, I try not to treat my opinions like religious beliefs, nor to believe everything I think, as if every passing thought were a gem.
Thank you, very fair, so l’ll do my best to sketch out how I see it. I am pro brexit. I wanted lizz truss and her free trade, low tax outward looking economy we were promised, trade with the world, take back control of our democracy, encourage tourists etc. I thought that was the vision anyway, it was bold, different, what we needed, a lot of people have forgotten that. We have now been robbed of that by a left leaning establishment (biden also stuck his oar in) and I am p*ssed off about it tbh. Good for her writing in the telegraph. We have lost two leaders trying to do what they were elected for and now have one we didn’t choose suffocating the economy. And now perhaps a breaking global order. So part of our brexit vision is in tatters, before we were allowed to even try it. The American stuff is the exported politics which are often aggressively funded, the US has become pretty hypocritical on so many issues, didn’t support brexit, lied to us over Iraq and Afghanistan, interfered in truss budget, not very democratic, major censorship issues, very poor management of the dollar and economy which is/has hurt everyone, 2008 wasn’t exactly because Americans has been responsible. I think they could tone down the free world nonsense a bit, they are hardly much better than anyone else.
I can see why I’m hard to pin down, they don’t make them like me very often, probably wise. I actually started posting because there didn’t seem to be any millennials on here, got spare time as my little one is on and off school. Ive read here for a long time, but in the comments a lot of people making assumptions about my generation. I’ve been challenging their perceptions and testing myself I suppose, bothering people that probably wish I would go away 🙂
I follow the fringe sites that do just business/ energy type news and have for years, so I’ve been joining in on all that. It’s quite funny some people think this is one of the only alternatives to msm. My parents live on a boat, it has its own little alternative type news community, I know a guy that runs a little news site from his boat and my partner knows another that hands out his own paper. I was a bit of an Alex jones kid, I know he is discredited but he certainly raised some questions about certain organisations, so how the world really works etc has always been an interest on and off. Its very much back on at the moment 🙂
I know there’s a million things I don’t know or understand so from my perspective I don’t think it’s always good to be too fixed in beliefs and idealogy, try and keep learning, be open to changing your mind all that. I do believe in free speech and not cancelling people left right and centre though. I think we are living in times when it feels like the world is getting smaller perhaps and people are not always free to speak, covid was very restrictive, and in times where how we act now, will have some serious consequences for years to come. Its all going at the moment 🙂
My main worry is the escalation, I feel awful for ukraine, I think the whole thing is just a mess.
I’m glad there’s a Millennial Presence (sounds like a New Age cult from the late 90s) here, especially with at least one person who’s not in lockstep with some reductive idea of what millennials are assumed to think.
I think at least a slight majority of people have some independence of mind, but they also want to belong somewhere, so they cluster in the tribes they were born into (ethnic, religious) or find camps of the seemingly like-minded (political, ideological) on their own, and surrender some of their own cognitive processes to the “hive mind”.
That’s actually not so bad to a degree, because a single person’s intellect and experience has limits, and because there’s too much information to process as a whole, and because information doesn’t lead straight to knowledge or understanding (“and because…”). But too many of us end up choosing our sides because of who we hate, crouching or lounging in warring camps that squawk at one another yet barely listen. It has always been this way to an extent, but we’re in a pretty divisive cultural moment. (Pretty sure that mid-16th Century Europe with its Christian-on-Christian sectarian violence had us beat for internal cultural division though).
Is the right-leaning establishment on the side of The People? Boris and Liz and Rishi? I’m still a bit amazed at working class people or even down-and-outers who who love Trump as if he is firmly one their side–the tax cheat who stiffs tradespeople on their pay whenever he can!–or anyone’s side but himself and his inner circle.
I do think even a good ideology (say altruism or humanism) that is rigidly fixed becomes an obstacle or a trap.
Though I’m not sad to see someone like Alex Jones lose prominence or a specific platform to shout from, I don’t believe in suppressing speech either, unless, for example, it is a clear incitement to specific violence or jeopardizes people by revealing certain personal or military details.
Most Americans don’t believe in prior censorship either. There is indeed a hyper-progressive or woke elite here that has departed from common sense and jumped way ahead of popular opinion, many among whom seem convinced they have a perfect new path that at this stage involves racializing everything and turning language into an easily triggered minefield of trauma and offense. But American is a big place, far more varied and a bit less crazy than it may appear from the outside–most places are. (In the case of Canada, where I like to remind people I was born, I think it’s quite a bit more crazy and less nice than people tend to assume–though still pretty nice eh).
Please don’t trust Alex Jones to tell you how the world really works ever again! That’s enough from me in what I intended as a brief reply. To be continued.
Lol, mention Alex jones and people run a mile, I love it. I do not rely on him to say how the world works, like I say, he’s discredited, reputation shredded, I suppose I’m trying to say when we were teenagers there was a lot of that stuff flying around the Internet, wiki leaks and all that, very little was censored, it was fun to read crazy theories, and that’s kind of what got me interested I suppose. He picked up on stuff like the un, trilateral commission etc etc that others never really discussed. That and arguing over radio four at work with my dad, who absolutely hates Alex jones – he happily told us not to be so bloody stupid and watch some proper news. Hence the shift to business type news now I’m a grown up 🙂
Got it. That was meant mainly as a joke since your said you “were an Alex Jones kid” and you and your generation aren’t kids anymore. But I appreciate the re-assurance anyway.
OK, just making sure, there’s so much crazy related to Alex jones David ike type media now, its a minefield.
On you earlier point about the economy, yes I am ‘working class’, but my dad ran a limited company for years, my partner and I with him later on. So I understand the difference corporation tax makes to small business. There seems to be a perception that all working class people work for others, in the construction industry (our area) this is very much not the case. We have to do books, tax, regulations too. So I can see how lowering taxes on business, cutting regulations etc leaves more for them to invest in innovation and hiring more people. Which improves the economy as a whole, bottom up. Really we need to be looking to encourage this reshoring business, putting high tax on business etc is not going to attract investment. I can understand her arguments, she does lay it out well in her essay. I can see why in America you cant understand why the working class would like boris, it seems you have a slightly different approach to class maybe, but most in our sort of tier value intelligence and education, we don’t hold it against the likes of boris and truss however they got it, all that matters is what they are saying and doing I suppose. I imagine it took some b*lls to try and change the status quo, so I admire truss for that too.
Hopefully my millennial presence isn’t too annoying 🙂
I come from a large extended family of mostly small-business owners and salespeople on one side and farmers and small-time, small town business folk on the other. My dad, from the Canadian farmer side, became a carpenter and then a contractor after we moved to the States and I’ve done a fair amount of that work myself.
That’s why I’m kind of personally offended that Trump has stiffed so many contractors and by extension tradespeople, and dismayed at those who think he or Boris Johnson–sons of silver- spoon, high white privilege–are on their side in any real way.
Maybe the alternative looks worse, and many love the populist, stick-it-to-the-wokesters talk. But there hasn’t been much delivery–from either the left, right or center–on reducing corporatocracy or socioeconomic inequality has there?
I don’t want to mock and vilify those I disagree with anymore–I’ve done my share of that, and sometimes I still do it, regretably.
I see my real opponents as those on the far-far left and far-far right ends of the ideological spectrum–the ones typically most willing to kill or tyrannize for a creed. I’ve aged or perhaps matured into a place where I can see that most people have a combination of valid and understandable motives for their beliefs. No Single True Path can, or should prevail.
I don’t know if you can be made to stand in for all millennials, but I find your presence here welcome, and far from annoying.
Thank you, I think Boris appealed to brexit voters for a few reasons I think, he was in the leave campaign, he was part of an existing party that had a better chance of majority than ukip, he is intelligent, silver spoon yes, but that wasn’t the point, it’s the policies etc. If we start saying everyone born with a silver spoon doesn’t have the countries interests at heart well that’s getting a bit toward the lot that want to ‘remove the elite’. I like truss, she seems genuine, by holding the corporation tax rate etc. she wasn’t hurting small business she was helping them, which was/is in the interest of certain sections of the working class. Trump and that whole thing are a different kettle of fish I feel, your issues there are different to ours in many aspects I feel. Our government has really fluffed it now, there’s no denying it, lots of mistakes made but that doesn’t mean truss was wrong.
The corptocracy thing is making it as mainstream issue I think, and it’s not an easy one to tackle, corporations are now globalised, that whole business is also to an extent a different kettle of fish. Not really perhaps the fault of one government, just everything got really big, really fast, we seem to have got carried away with massive globalised business and institutions which add another layer of issues and sometimes corruption on top.
I agree that Boris is, in an IQ sense, intelligent–despite his buffoonery. Not dissimilar to Trump in that way. Both men seem pretty much all about themselves to me too, even by politician “standards”.
What did Johnson’s accomplish? How many consecutive years of Conservative rule will be needed for anything of substance to get done in the UK, or will those failures be blamed on a left-leaning elite no matter what?
Don’t mistake me for a left-wing partisan though: It’s not like I think Biden is wonderful, or thought (as an transatlantic observer) that Tony Blair was a great statesman either.
That’s part of the trouble for those of us who care, but land inside the fringes: Which establishment party or electable politicians are likely to do much good, or even oppose an entrenched status quo?
While I’m dispositionally opposed to bloody revolutions and violent ideological uprisings, I’m not a milquetoast all-is-well head-in-the-sand-man either. We need more non-idiotic voices and cooperative participation. Conscientious, concerted citizenship now (please)!
I understand what you are saying about boris and Conservatives etc. You will have to bear in mind my memory/ knowledge of politics is no where near as good as some here. British politics I think got a bit crazy under Blair, Iraq all that, then we had the financial crisis, austerity, we had a coalition government which was unusual, between the lib dems and Conservatives then David Cameron, although he gets much stick, as far as I can tell did actually try pretty hard to negotiate with Europe. He did give us a referendum so you know, credit for that. Boris hadn’t been in that long before we were hit with covid and then ukraine, so it’s not like it was a great time for him to get done what he wanted, he couldn’t have had more stuff against him. I suppose it’s easy to pick the bad stuff, everyone covers what the politicians have wrong, everyone likes to vent about the state of the world, but I think the British people by and large know politics is a slow game, change isn’t fast or easy, I think most sensible British people would cut boris and truss some slack considering the headwinds they were facing. I know lots of business owners are not happy about corporation tax etc. Uneasy how boris and truss were got rid of, like you say, I am really not an advocate for pitchforks either, global situation is not great there are bigger wars going on, but also head in the sand is no good. I will see how Mr Sunak does, I suppose faced with truss gone they had to tow the line anyway, it’s very difficult to make out what’s going on with all that. Lizz truss arguably was trying to change the status quo I think might be fair to say?
I agree that Sunak deserves a chance and think that while Truss seems to have badly miscalculated, at least in a political sense, her removal was insanely abrupt.
I agree that Sunak deserves a chance and think that while Truss seems to have badly miscalculated, at least in a political sense, her removal was insanely abrupt.
I understand what you are saying about boris and Conservatives etc. You will have to bear in mind my memory/ knowledge of politics is no where near as good as some here. British politics I think got a bit crazy under Blair, Iraq all that, then we had the financial crisis, austerity, we had a coalition government which was unusual, between the lib dems and Conservatives then David Cameron, although he gets much stick, as far as I can tell did actually try pretty hard to negotiate with Europe. He did give us a referendum so you know, credit for that. Boris hadn’t been in that long before we were hit with covid and then ukraine, so it’s not like it was a great time for him to get done what he wanted, he couldn’t have had more stuff against him. I suppose it’s easy to pick the bad stuff, everyone covers what the politicians have wrong, everyone likes to vent about the state of the world, but I think the British people by and large know politics is a slow game, change isn’t fast or easy, I think most sensible British people would cut boris and truss some slack considering the headwinds they were facing. I know lots of business owners are not happy about corporation tax etc. Uneasy how boris and truss were got rid of, like you say, I am really not an advocate for pitchforks either, global situation is not great there are bigger wars going on, but also head in the sand is no good. I will see how Mr Sunak does, I suppose faced with truss gone they had to tow the line anyway, it’s very difficult to make out what’s going on with all that. Lizz truss arguably was trying to change the status quo I think might be fair to say?
I agree that Boris is, in an IQ sense, intelligent–despite his buffoonery. Not dissimilar to Trump in that way. Both men seem pretty much all about themselves to me too, even by politician “standards”.
What did Johnson’s accomplish? How many consecutive years of Conservative rule will be needed for anything of substance to get done in the UK, or will those failures be blamed on a left-leaning elite no matter what?
Don’t mistake me for a left-wing partisan though: It’s not like I think Biden is wonderful, or thought (as an transatlantic observer) that Tony Blair was a great statesman either.
That’s part of the trouble for those of us who care, but land inside the fringes: Which establishment party or electable politicians are likely to do much good, or even oppose an entrenched status quo?
While I’m dispositionally opposed to bloody revolutions and violent ideological uprisings, I’m not a milquetoast all-is-well head-in-the-sand-man either. We need more non-idiotic voices and cooperative participation. Conscientious, concerted citizenship now (please)!
Thank you, I think Boris appealed to brexit voters for a few reasons I think, he was in the leave campaign, he was part of an existing party that had a better chance of majority than ukip, he is intelligent, silver spoon yes, but that wasn’t the point, it’s the policies etc. If we start saying everyone born with a silver spoon doesn’t have the countries interests at heart well that’s getting a bit toward the lot that want to ‘remove the elite’. I like truss, she seems genuine, by holding the corporation tax rate etc. she wasn’t hurting small business she was helping them, which was/is in the interest of certain sections of the working class. Trump and that whole thing are a different kettle of fish I feel, your issues there are different to ours in many aspects I feel. Our government has really fluffed it now, there’s no denying it, lots of mistakes made but that doesn’t mean truss was wrong.
The corptocracy thing is making it as mainstream issue I think, and it’s not an easy one to tackle, corporations are now globalised, that whole business is also to an extent a different kettle of fish. Not really perhaps the fault of one government, just everything got really big, really fast, we seem to have got carried away with massive globalised business and institutions which add another layer of issues and sometimes corruption on top.
I come from a large extended family of mostly small-business owners and salespeople on one side and farmers and small-time, small town business folk on the other. My dad, from the Canadian farmer side, became a carpenter and then a contractor after we moved to the States and I’ve done a fair amount of that work myself.
That’s why I’m kind of personally offended that Trump has stiffed so many contractors and by extension tradespeople, and dismayed at those who think he or Boris Johnson–sons of silver- spoon, high white privilege–are on their side in any real way.
Maybe the alternative looks worse, and many love the populist, stick-it-to-the-wokesters talk. But there hasn’t been much delivery–from either the left, right or center–on reducing corporatocracy or socioeconomic inequality has there?
I don’t want to mock and vilify those I disagree with anymore–I’ve done my share of that, and sometimes I still do it, regretably.
I see my real opponents as those on the far-far left and far-far right ends of the ideological spectrum–the ones typically most willing to kill or tyrannize for a creed. I’ve aged or perhaps matured into a place where I can see that most people have a combination of valid and understandable motives for their beliefs. No Single True Path can, or should prevail.
I don’t know if you can be made to stand in for all millennials, but I find your presence here welcome, and far from annoying.
OK, just making sure, there’s so much crazy related to Alex jones David ike type media now, its a minefield.
On you earlier point about the economy, yes I am ‘working class’, but my dad ran a limited company for years, my partner and I with him later on. So I understand the difference corporation tax makes to small business. There seems to be a perception that all working class people work for others, in the construction industry (our area) this is very much not the case. We have to do books, tax, regulations too. So I can see how lowering taxes on business, cutting regulations etc leaves more for them to invest in innovation and hiring more people. Which improves the economy as a whole, bottom up. Really we need to be looking to encourage this reshoring business, putting high tax on business etc is not going to attract investment. I can understand her arguments, she does lay it out well in her essay. I can see why in America you cant understand why the working class would like boris, it seems you have a slightly different approach to class maybe, but most in our sort of tier value intelligence and education, we don’t hold it against the likes of boris and truss however they got it, all that matters is what they are saying and doing I suppose. I imagine it took some b*lls to try and change the status quo, so I admire truss for that too.
Hopefully my millennial presence isn’t too annoying 🙂
Got it. That was meant mainly as a joke since your said you “were an Alex Jones kid” and you and your generation aren’t kids anymore. But I appreciate the re-assurance anyway.
Lol, mention Alex jones and people run a mile, I love it. I do not rely on him to say how the world works, like I say, he’s discredited, reputation shredded, I suppose I’m trying to say when we were teenagers there was a lot of that stuff flying around the Internet, wiki leaks and all that, very little was censored, it was fun to read crazy theories, and that’s kind of what got me interested I suppose. He picked up on stuff like the un, trilateral commission etc etc that others never really discussed. That and arguing over radio four at work with my dad, who absolutely hates Alex jones – he happily told us not to be so bloody stupid and watch some proper news. Hence the shift to business type news now I’m a grown up 🙂
Liz Truss was defeated by the capital markets who saw plans to increase spending combined with plans to cut revenues. Not at all a left-leaning Establishment – the City of London and Wall Street?
The reasons for the market reaction were more complex than you make out, I would direct you to her essay in the telegraph where she explains it all very clearly. It was also related to the change in interest rates and lpis etc.
The reasons for the market reaction were more complex than you make out, I would direct you to her essay in the telegraph where she explains it all very clearly. It was also related to the change in interest rates and lpis etc.
I’m glad there’s a Millennial Presence (sounds like a New Age cult from the late 90s) here, especially with at least one person who’s not in lockstep with some reductive idea of what millennials are assumed to think.
I think at least a slight majority of people have some independence of mind, but they also want to belong somewhere, so they cluster in the tribes they were born into (ethnic, religious) or find camps of the seemingly like-minded (political, ideological) on their own, and surrender some of their own cognitive processes to the “hive mind”.
That’s actually not so bad to a degree, because a single person’s intellect and experience has limits, and because there’s too much information to process as a whole, and because information doesn’t lead straight to knowledge or understanding (“and because…”). But too many of us end up choosing our sides because of who we hate, crouching or lounging in warring camps that squawk at one another yet barely listen. It has always been this way to an extent, but we’re in a pretty divisive cultural moment. (Pretty sure that mid-16th Century Europe with its Christian-on-Christian sectarian violence had us beat for internal cultural division though).
Is the right-leaning establishment on the side of The People? Boris and Liz and Rishi? I’m still a bit amazed at working class people or even down-and-outers who who love Trump as if he is firmly one their side–the tax cheat who stiffs tradespeople on their pay whenever he can!–or anyone’s side but himself and his inner circle.
I do think even a good ideology (say altruism or humanism) that is rigidly fixed becomes an obstacle or a trap.
Though I’m not sad to see someone like Alex Jones lose prominence or a specific platform to shout from, I don’t believe in suppressing speech either, unless, for example, it is a clear incitement to specific violence or jeopardizes people by revealing certain personal or military details.
Most Americans don’t believe in prior censorship either. There is indeed a hyper-progressive or woke elite here that has departed from common sense and jumped way ahead of popular opinion, many among whom seem convinced they have a perfect new path that at this stage involves racializing everything and turning language into an easily triggered minefield of trauma and offense. But American is a big place, far more varied and a bit less crazy than it may appear from the outside–most places are. (In the case of Canada, where I like to remind people I was born, I think it’s quite a bit more crazy and less nice than people tend to assume–though still pretty nice eh).
Please don’t trust Alex Jones to tell you how the world really works ever again! That’s enough from me in what I intended as a brief reply. To be continued.
Liz Truss was defeated by the capital markets who saw plans to increase spending combined with plans to cut revenues. Not at all a left-leaning Establishment – the City of London and Wall Street?
Thank you, very fair, so l’ll do my best to sketch out how I see it. I am pro brexit. I wanted lizz truss and her free trade, low tax outward looking economy we were promised, trade with the world, take back control of our democracy, encourage tourists etc. I thought that was the vision anyway, it was bold, different, what we needed, a lot of people have forgotten that. We have now been robbed of that by a left leaning establishment (biden also stuck his oar in) and I am p*ssed off about it tbh. Good for her writing in the telegraph. We have lost two leaders trying to do what they were elected for and now have one we didn’t choose suffocating the economy. And now perhaps a breaking global order. So part of our brexit vision is in tatters, before we were allowed to even try it. The American stuff is the exported politics which are often aggressively funded, the US has become pretty hypocritical on so many issues, didn’t support brexit, lied to us over Iraq and Afghanistan, interfered in truss budget, not very democratic, major censorship issues, very poor management of the dollar and economy which is/has hurt everyone, 2008 wasn’t exactly because Americans has been responsible. I think they could tone down the free world nonsense a bit, they are hardly much better than anyone else.
I can see why I’m hard to pin down, they don’t make them like me very often, probably wise. I actually started posting because there didn’t seem to be any millennials on here, got spare time as my little one is on and off school. Ive read here for a long time, but in the comments a lot of people making assumptions about my generation. I’ve been challenging their perceptions and testing myself I suppose, bothering people that probably wish I would go away 🙂
I follow the fringe sites that do just business/ energy type news and have for years, so I’ve been joining in on all that. It’s quite funny some people think this is one of the only alternatives to msm. My parents live on a boat, it has its own little alternative type news community, I know a guy that runs a little news site from his boat and my partner knows another that hands out his own paper. I was a bit of an Alex jones kid, I know he is discredited but he certainly raised some questions about certain organisations, so how the world really works etc has always been an interest on and off. Its very much back on at the moment 🙂
I know there’s a million things I don’t know or understand so from my perspective I don’t think it’s always good to be too fixed in beliefs and idealogy, try and keep learning, be open to changing your mind all that. I do believe in free speech and not cancelling people left right and centre though. I think we are living in times when it feels like the world is getting smaller perhaps and people are not always free to speak, covid was very restrictive, and in times where how we act now, will have some serious consequences for years to come. Its all going at the moment 🙂
My main worry is the escalation, I feel awful for ukraine, I think the whole thing is just a mess.
well put thanks !
I’m actually pretty sympathetic to most of these points, although I don’t share all your demographics as a 50-ish male American born in Canada.
I’d like Europe to help lead the way to a less contentious world order, if possible. But most of the outspoken commenters here are, if not straight up rah rah pro-Brexit, suspicious of anything Continental or multi-lateral that seems to threaten local pubs and restaurants, familiar population makeup, etc. I’m not saying there aren’t complex and valid reasons to reject membership in the EU. But it’s a bit much to be a roaring Little England Brexiteer and then talk about the critical imperative of taming the American Beast (whenever such commenters are the same people-I admit I sometimes lose track).
The above is not meant to refer to your own views, and I’m not sure where you stand on all the recurring, ongoing world and UK-specific issues that come up here. I have noticed that you’re not easy to pin at one place on the political-cultural-philosophical spectrum, which I respect. I often disagree with you but can only conclude that your a thoughtful and worthy participant in the UnHerd.
“wondering if actually we could all calm down, try and find some understanding on all sides and deal with the power balance change without escalation towards nuclear conflict”. Amen to that!
As much as I’m in sympathy with Ukraine’s cause, I am troubled by this escalation on both sides. (Let’s be honest, whatever the scales used, it isn’t unidirectional in either direction).
And while I remain very opinionated in my middle years, I try not to treat my opinions like religious beliefs, nor to believe everything I think, as if every passing thought were a gem.
well put thanks !
“but it hasn’t annexed territory since 1898”
That covers a period during which Americans
– overthrew democratically elected governments in Chile, Congo, Iran amongst others, replacing them with murderous dictators or authoritarian leaders
– Attacked Vietnam, Libya, Iraq without provocation, resulting in utter destruction of those countries
– Supported terrorist or radical religious organisations in Nicaragua, Afghanistan
– Provided arms and other support to countries like Pakistan, Turkey, Israel, Saudi – while they used those arms for genocide or attacks on civilians.
You aren’t making the case you think you are.
And incidentally, the reason they haven’t annexed anything since 1898?
Because they ran out of places to annexe
Have you seen the American map of 1776 and how it compares to the current, post 1898 borders?
I’m not an US Exceptionalist nor a believer in the phony justifications that were made for so-called Manifest Destiny.
You’re right that US involvement overseas has been disastrous on the whole since WWII.
But I really think it easy to make the case that the Soviet Union was more violent, expansionist and tyrannical, with many more documented deaths and swallowed countries in its wake than even the most inflated US tally. And I believe Putin comes from and wants to return to this sort of Russia: a de facto tyrannical oligarchy and expansionist empire that pretends to a benevolent altruism, socialist or not.
So I am not making the case that America is squeaky clean or perfect, nor a case that could ever persuade a Putin fan like you, but I’m quite sure I know the kind of case I am making, in what context and with what stakes.
If you are, for example, an anti-American, Hungarian ultra-authoritarian who’d love to see an even stronger Orbán-Putin alliance, or a re-absorption of Hungary into a Russianist mega-state, you have your own point-of-view and internal logic.
But we’re not gonna persuade each other.
I am bewildered when Americans believe the USSR is the exact same thing as post-1991 Russia to win an argument – the US did that, but Russia did that also. It honestly reminds me of a recent re-tweet by NATO on its official page of an article portraying Putin as Thanos. When are people going to stop believing geopolitics is a DC or Marvel fantasy movie…
I am bewildered when Americans believe the USSR is the exact same thing as post-1991 Russia to win an argument – the US did that, but Russia did that also. It honestly reminds me of a recent re-tweet by NATO on its official page of an article portraying Putin as Thanos. When are people going to stop believing geopolitics is a DC or Marvel fantasy movie…
I’m not an US Exceptionalist nor a believer in the phony justifications that were made for so-called Manifest Destiny.
You’re right that US involvement overseas has been disastrous on the whole since WWII.
But I really think it easy to make the case that the Soviet Union was more violent, expansionist and tyrannical, with many more documented deaths and swallowed countries in its wake than even the most inflated US tally. And I believe Putin comes from and wants to return to this sort of Russia: a de facto tyrannical oligarchy and expansionist empire that pretends to a benevolent altruism, socialist or not.
So I am not making the case that America is squeaky clean or perfect, nor a case that could ever persuade a Putin fan like you, but I’m quite sure I know the kind of case I am making, in what context and with what stakes.
If you are, for example, an anti-American, Hungarian ultra-authoritarian who’d love to see an even stronger Orbán-Putin alliance, or a re-absorption of Hungary into a Russianist mega-state, you have your own point-of-view and internal logic.
But we’re not gonna persuade each other.
ha ha what a load of tosh! ye ha. Bet you don’t have any native American mates do you……
A few with much higher percentages than Elizabeth Warren. Do you have any?
I suppose we could nearly all do a lot better as nations and individual people.
[I altered this reply because while I probably shouldn’t have responded to this sort of mockery at all, since I’m doing so I’d rather to not pile on negativity the way I did in the first version]
A few with much higher percentages than Elizabeth Warren. Do you have any?
I suppose we could nearly all do a lot better as nations and individual people.
[I altered this reply because while I probably shouldn’t have responded to this sort of mockery at all, since I’m doing so I’d rather to not pile on negativity the way I did in the first version]
Geez.. you guys are suckers for the MSM.. the US has effectively annexed almost every nation on Earth (except the BRICS) via neo liberalism.. much easier than neocolonialism in turn much easier than colonialism..
Don’t you find it odd that while you are happy to stay with American hegemony the BRICS nations, most of Africa, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and now much of Latin America have had enough!
I have a very conflicted view to all this. Let me try and lay it out. Because I have been pretty anti us. But I have also been anti russia and China. So.
I’m pissed at the us for its lies over Iraq, im slightly aggravated by the fact its multinationals have made a lot of money in China, we have off shored everything there and now all of a sudden its no good, we must stop dealing with them. A bit like the Russian energy. Same idea. Let’s do it, actually no. That’s going to cause carnage. All you old people have bought Chinese goods then turn round to young people and say actually no, we’ve given the crazy communists too much money and we must fight them. OK. Great, thanks guys.
I don’t like how your fbi etc censor twitter etc etc I don’t like the way you just constantly use qe as an answer.
Next. The ccp could well be responsible for covid, are probably as dodgy as every b*gger else just like the Russians. I am also very sceptical of their intentions.
If your a millennial all this is very confusing. Lies everywhere on all sides. Collapsing the current global order is f*cking worrying. Some people, like my good self just are wondering if actually we could all calm down, try and find some understanding on all sides and deal with the power balance change without escalation towards nuclear conflict. You know. That’s all really. There is a few points to say the us hasn’t helped the situation. That’s not to say that the ccp and Russia aren’t also merrily causing carnage. Tbh they’re all at it and Europe is stuck in the middle, wondering how long until they all kick off properly and how bad it’s likely to be. In my humble opinion.
“but it hasn’t annexed territory since 1898”
That covers a period during which Americans
– overthrew democratically elected governments in Chile, Congo, Iran amongst others, replacing them with murderous dictators or authoritarian leaders
– Attacked Vietnam, Libya, Iraq without provocation, resulting in utter destruction of those countries
– Supported terrorist or radical religious organisations in Nicaragua, Afghanistan
– Provided arms and other support to countries like Pakistan, Turkey, Israel, Saudi – while they used those arms for genocide or attacks on civilians.
You aren’t making the case you think you are.
And incidentally, the reason they haven’t annexed anything since 1898?
Because they ran out of places to annexe
Have you seen the American map of 1776 and how it compares to the current, post 1898 borders?
ha ha what a load of tosh! ye ha. Bet you don’t have any native American mates do you……
Give over.
The EU was making the running on accession to the EU, before ever any thought of Ukraine joining Nato.
Russia, because of it’s nukes still thinks it’s a great power…but it isn’t, not really. It has destroyed it’s main source of revenue for maybe 10 years.
The criteria for joining the EU are such that Ukraine will qualify in maybe a 100 years or so thanks to its monumental corruption, state run judiciary, imprisoned opposition etc! Get real..
If that is the case how on earth did corrupt little Ireland get in? Or for that matter irredeemably corrupt little Greece?
Ireland isn’t a real country. It’s just part of Britain.
They are all one people of the British Isles.
Can’t see all the fuss.
Ireland isn’t a real country. It’s just part of Britain.
They are all one people of the British Isles.
Can’t see all the fuss.
If that is the case how on earth did corrupt little Ireland get in? Or for that matter irredeemably corrupt little Greece?
The criteria for joining the EU are such that Ukraine will qualify in maybe a 100 years or so thanks to its monumental corruption, state run judiciary, imprisoned opposition etc! Get real..
Spot on!
Well said Bruce! So many down votes – really? What a bunch of red necks on here!
Some of what he said was spot on, other things were a very mixed bag. That’s probably why.
Some of what he said was spot on, other things were a very mixed bag. That’s probably why.
oh – I finally get it !! Nato really just wanted to invade russia all along !!
I think it’s the Ukranians who decide whether they are a country or not…and who they can play with.
No. Ending it on the Ukraine-Western side means the end of Ukraine in any meaningful sense. Ending it from the Russian side means the non-increase (or in their view, non-recovery) of Russian soil, stopping the bloodbath and helping to curtail Putin’s imperial ambitions. It is Putin who has brushed aside warnings and miscalculated. Let him have this one you seem to say, in the interest of a tense a servile peace. How about the next one?
Yes, the US has an imperial past and present but it hasn’t annexed territory since 1898. And when we go into places around the globe and try to control or “Americanize” them more recently that doesn’t really work out well in the long run does it? This intervention is a far more legitimate defense of Western interests or Ukrainian national sovereignty than the weak pretense of Kuwaiti sovereignty made for Desert Storm in 1990. Or of mostly-futile nation-building efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere.
I’d like to know from some/any among the multitude of anti-Ukraine-intervention voices here: Are you just against intervention, or actively rooting for a decrease in US world power and consequent increase in the power of Russia and China?
Because I’m not an unqualified supporter of American power and influence, but I’ll take it over the plausible alternatives.
Give over.
The EU was making the running on accession to the EU, before ever any thought of Ukraine joining Nato.
Russia, because of it’s nukes still thinks it’s a great power…but it isn’t, not really. It has destroyed it’s main source of revenue for maybe 10 years.
Spot on!
Well said Bruce! So many down votes – really? What a bunch of red necks on here!
oh – I finally get it !! Nato really just wanted to invade russia all along !!
I think it’s the Ukranians who decide whether they are a country or not…and who they can play with.
I’d say the support for Putin could be explained by the enemy of my enemy is my friend if you consider Ukraine to basically be fighting on behalf of the US empire.
Ok, I can see that justification. But in this situation don’t you have to make the entire West your enemy for that to even to make sense to the degree that slogan even makes sense? (Of course your enemy’s enemy can be another enemy, or certainly an adversary). In other words, what part of the globe do these commenters and their families reside in? The non-West?
If you mean the people of the west than no of course you don’t consider them all enemies but the people in charge yes and I was clear to call it the American empire. I would consider it a bit like certain Irish nationalists supporting Germany in the first world war. They did not want to be part of a German empire though in that war they had a common enemy.
That may work as an explanation but not a reason, when the actual result of that support, if successful, is German empire or Russo-Chinese world hegemony. Or would NATO and the EU– with Britain now desperately back on board–fill that void after big bad Uncle Sam is booted from the leadership seat?
There are those who believe that a multi-polar world reins everyone in, and raises more boats than does a unipolar hegemony. A reduction of American ability to tyrranize and threaten innocent others will be welcomed by many.
Ah, the glory days of the Cold War.
Truthfully, I can see some merit in this belief, and plenty of reasons not to trust unipolar American sway.
But how many sovereign nations have to be conceded, how many CCP spy games and and betrayals like Hong Kong are needed to achieve this bellicose balance?
It’s possible you may get your wish, yet become nostalgic for the days of American domination when you see what China and Russia provide to replace it.
Why not build up NATO the EU, the UK and other pockets of the world (Australia, Mexico, Brazil) that are not hostile to so-called Western values, which in many cases correspond to Universal Human Rights, at least aspirationally, and with some real-world success?
Easily said I know, but a better, if steeper and slower, path in my view than moving the pieces to the other side of the global board as if it were a game of Risk, so we can fiddle while Rome burns, or succumb to a naive belief that what comes next can’t be any worse.
They believe that right up until Russia or China starts to invade them, then they cry for US help.
Ah, the glory days of the Cold War.
Truthfully, I can see some merit in this belief, and plenty of reasons not to trust unipolar American sway.
But how many sovereign nations have to be conceded, how many CCP spy games and and betrayals like Hong Kong are needed to achieve this bellicose balance?
It’s possible you may get your wish, yet become nostalgic for the days of American domination when you see what China and Russia provide to replace it.
Why not build up NATO the EU, the UK and other pockets of the world (Australia, Mexico, Brazil) that are not hostile to so-called Western values, which in many cases correspond to Universal Human Rights, at least aspirationally, and with some real-world success?
Easily said I know, but a better, if steeper and slower, path in my view than moving the pieces to the other side of the global board as if it were a game of Risk, so we can fiddle while Rome burns, or succumb to a naive belief that what comes next can’t be any worse.
They believe that right up until Russia or China starts to invade them, then they cry for US help.
People seem to be confusing my explanation for my opinion but I’ll continue to play along as it’s an interesting discussion.
I don’t think anyone sees Russia as a serious threat to the USA to be honest and NATO is a pretty strong blockade on them progressing any further than Ukraine. So it seems fine for Russia to control Ukraine which is vital for their national security while for the US empire it isn’t particularly vital at all. There seems like a lot more steps before we get to the defeat of the US empire and Russia, China hegemony.
On the topic of China I think you would likely find a lot of those nationalists we started this discussion about would see them as far more of a serious threat. They would prefer to be aligned with Russia against China than face them both at the same time.
I see. I was trying to coax out your own views while attempting to play along with your non-committal or third-person language. I agree that the prospect of a Russia-China mega-bloc is not around the corner, but disagree that there are many steps still needed.
Thought experiment. Let Russia have Ukraine, let China fully re-absorb Hong Kong and Taiwan. Then they both stop there?
So you–or the hypothetical people whose views you’re defending–would be in favor of opposing Russia and Putin the Terrible if he tries to push on into Lithuania, Belarus, Finland…eastern Poland?
If what’s left of the pretense of civil relations and mutual standoffishness between China and the US collapses, a Russia-Chinese hegemony could be about one-full step and a few years away from reality. That’s my non-expert opinion, one which I didn’t, of course, form all on my own.
I agree that Russia by itself presents only a minor political, economic, and existential threat to the West unless they literally go nuclear. But that is something that seems less farfetched than it did just a full year ago.
I don’t see how you think you can be aligned with Russia under its present leadership without a huge risk of becoming part of Russia or the Soviet Union 2.0, or of finding your nation facing a bigger war, closer to your own front step, to resist that.
Who do you think Putin is? Can Poles, Hungarians, or Germans be expected to share your comfort with the notion of a strategic alliance with Russia?
Sorry I have been offline for a few days and understand this thread has gone cold but just to honor your comment with a response. I would say that the difference between Ukraine and Poland for example is Nato and nuclear war. So I don’t see some sort of domino effect happening and I also think its a long shot they take the whole of Ukraine. I don’ think the West should concede anything to China either. Anyway, I answered your question in my first comment. Bye!
Sorry I have been offline for a few days and understand this thread has gone cold but just to honor your comment with a response. I would say that the difference between Ukraine and Poland for example is Nato and nuclear war. So I don’t see some sort of domino effect happening and I also think its a long shot they take the whole of Ukraine. I don’ think the West should concede anything to China either. Anyway, I answered your question in my first comment. Bye!
I thank you not to treat Ukraine, a country of nearly 50 million prior to 2014, with an emigre community of an additional 5-6 million, as though the desire of Ukrainians to keep their own country and not a colony of russia’s was irrelevant. You’ve clearly never visited either place so you have no idea just how far apart they are in just about every way.
PS NATO wasn’t doing so well until this war became a wake-up call and suddenly everybody’s thinking defense and two neutral countries rushed to join it.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I see. I was trying to coax out your own views while attempting to play along with your non-committal or third-person language. I agree that the prospect of a Russia-China mega-bloc is not around the corner, but disagree that there are many steps still needed.
Thought experiment. Let Russia have Ukraine, let China fully re-absorb Hong Kong and Taiwan. Then they both stop there?
So you–or the hypothetical people whose views you’re defending–would be in favor of opposing Russia and Putin the Terrible if he tries to push on into Lithuania, Belarus, Finland…eastern Poland?
If what’s left of the pretense of civil relations and mutual standoffishness between China and the US collapses, a Russia-Chinese hegemony could be about one-full step and a few years away from reality. That’s my non-expert opinion, one which I didn’t, of course, form all on my own.
I agree that Russia by itself presents only a minor political, economic, and existential threat to the West unless they literally go nuclear. But that is something that seems less farfetched than it did just a full year ago.
I don’t see how you think you can be aligned with Russia under its present leadership without a huge risk of becoming part of Russia or the Soviet Union 2.0, or of finding your nation facing a bigger war, closer to your own front step, to resist that.
Who do you think Putin is? Can Poles, Hungarians, or Germans be expected to share your comfort with the notion of a strategic alliance with Russia?
I thank you not to treat Ukraine, a country of nearly 50 million prior to 2014, with an emigre community of an additional 5-6 million, as though the desire of Ukrainians to keep their own country and not a colony of russia’s was irrelevant. You’ve clearly never visited either place so you have no idea just how far apart they are in just about every way.
PS NATO wasn’t doing so well until this war became a wake-up call and suddenly everybody’s thinking defense and two neutral countries rushed to join it.
There are those who believe that a multi-polar world reins everyone in, and raises more boats than does a unipolar hegemony. A reduction of American ability to tyrranize and threaten innocent others will be welcomed by many.
People seem to be confusing my explanation for my opinion but I’ll continue to play along as it’s an interesting discussion.
I don’t think anyone sees Russia as a serious threat to the USA to be honest and NATO is a pretty strong blockade on them progressing any further than Ukraine. So it seems fine for Russia to control Ukraine which is vital for their national security while for the US empire it isn’t particularly vital at all. There seems like a lot more steps before we get to the defeat of the US empire and Russia, China hegemony.
On the topic of China I think you would likely find a lot of those nationalists we started this discussion about would see them as far more of a serious threat. They would prefer to be aligned with Russia against China than face them both at the same time.
Correct..
That may work as an explanation but not a reason, when the actual result of that support, if successful, is German empire or Russo-Chinese world hegemony. Or would NATO and the EU– with Britain now desperately back on board–fill that void after big bad Uncle Sam is booted from the leadership seat?
Correct..
If you mean the people of the west than no of course you don’t consider them all enemies but the people in charge yes and I was clear to call it the American empire. I would consider it a bit like certain Irish nationalists supporting Germany in the first world war. They did not want to be part of a German empire though in that war they had a common enemy.
Ok, I can see that justification. But in this situation don’t you have to make the entire West your enemy for that to even to make sense to the degree that slogan even makes sense? (Of course your enemy’s enemy can be another enemy, or certainly an adversary). In other words, what part of the globe do these commenters and their families reside in? The non-West?
You’ve got a few things very wrong (in you last paragraph):
1. “War… not good for anyone”? Are you joking? NATO (ie US, others are just lackeys) ie the American Military Complex is doing great!
2. The US has smashed EU-Russian relations so US foreign policy wins a great victory.
3. European economy is screwed making Europe heavily dependent on (non-existent) US largesse.. they have us by the balls! A great economic hit by the US on Europe!
4. Russia being weakened and its new monetary regime (via BRICS) is seriously curtailed – the whole motive for the CIA coup in the first place – thereby safeguarding the otherwise bankrupted dollar.
…and you say no one wins! Ha ha.. lol..
If anyone could actually plan out an outcome so unlikely 10 years ago, they would be beyond genius.
I don’t think the people who made the disastrous war in Iraq, and lost Afghanistan are exactly geniuses.
But maybe Joe Biden is the exception?
Ok certain war profiteers win. Lunatic online trolls win. Thanks for pointing out these important exceptions.
Europeans don’t need American military support and the U.S. govt. caused Putin’s invasion into Ukraine, wrecking an otherwise robust EU-Russia partnership (Haha, LAWL!).
The U.S. is a country of simpleminded yokels run by an elite of greed-blinded, ingenious masterminds who are for some reason also willing to have the world explode in their supposed self-interest. (LOL!)
Joe Biden, Boris Johnson, and even Trump aren’t just people you dislike but lizard people devoid of all humanity, goodwill, and sensible self-interest (willing to burn and destroy it all for money and self-promotion amid the rubble that’s left of the world…LOL).
You’ve made America into your literal Satan, though in competition with England, able to embody all–or most of–your hatred and prejudice. Is it accurate to say that you’d like to see America and most of its people obliterated? And that you consider yourself a Christian?
There’s not much point in us exchanging views on most topics, is there? Best to just let one another be, letting the up and downvotes fall as they may. Incidentally, I know there is more to you than you ranting denunciations, but you don’t show much of it here, and I can agree with some of your points, but you almost always wrap them in insults and ridicule. I don’t pretend to know it all, do you? No need to answer right away.
“Lunatic online trolls win.” As sure as death and taxes.
“Lunatic online trolls win.” As sure as death and taxes.
If anyone could actually plan out an outcome so unlikely 10 years ago, they would be beyond genius.
I don’t think the people who made the disastrous war in Iraq, and lost Afghanistan are exactly geniuses.
But maybe Joe Biden is the exception?
Ok certain war profiteers win. Lunatic online trolls win. Thanks for pointing out these important exceptions.
Europeans don’t need American military support and the U.S. govt. caused Putin’s invasion into Ukraine, wrecking an otherwise robust EU-Russia partnership (Haha, LAWL!).
The U.S. is a country of simpleminded yokels run by an elite of greed-blinded, ingenious masterminds who are for some reason also willing to have the world explode in their supposed self-interest. (LOL!)
Joe Biden, Boris Johnson, and even Trump aren’t just people you dislike but lizard people devoid of all humanity, goodwill, and sensible self-interest (willing to burn and destroy it all for money and self-promotion amid the rubble that’s left of the world…LOL).
You’ve made America into your literal Satan, though in competition with England, able to embody all–or most of–your hatred and prejudice. Is it accurate to say that you’d like to see America and most of its people obliterated? And that you consider yourself a Christian?
There’s not much point in us exchanging views on most topics, is there? Best to just let one another be, letting the up and downvotes fall as they may. Incidentally, I know there is more to you than you ranting denunciations, but you don’t show much of it here, and I can agree with some of your points, but you almost always wrap them in insults and ridicule. I don’t pretend to know it all, do you? No need to answer right away.
“Russia could end this tomorrow without any threat to its military, legitimate sovereignty, or status…”
The same could be said about NATO and America as well. Thirty years of warnings that Ukraine was the red line have been brushed aside by the West, and this is the provocation that has produced Putin’s response. To see this, one would have to understand that the Imperial West cannot be trusted. Our own history of multiple invasions and regime change efforts–let alone the colonialist history of key EU states–confirms this. There is no innocent intent when it comes to the deceptions and bad behavior on the part of this western Offensive (not defensive) alliance.
I’d say the support for Putin could be explained by the enemy of my enemy is my friend if you consider Ukraine to basically be fighting on behalf of the US empire.
You’ve got a few things very wrong (in you last paragraph):
1. “War… not good for anyone”? Are you joking? NATO (ie US, others are just lackeys) ie the American Military Complex is doing great!
2. The US has smashed EU-Russian relations so US foreign policy wins a great victory.
3. European economy is screwed making Europe heavily dependent on (non-existent) US largesse.. they have us by the balls! A great economic hit by the US on Europe!
4. Russia being weakened and its new monetary regime (via BRICS) is seriously curtailed – the whole motive for the CIA coup in the first place – thereby safeguarding the otherwise bankrupted dollar.
…and you say no one wins! Ha ha.. lol..
To me, this was a worthwhile peek inside the eye of the storm. The article is quite openly biased, as a piece of embedded journalism, or any non-fringe Western view of this conflict is likely to be. I’m fine with that. I could access ultra-right-wing media or even Russian propaganda for “balance” if I were so inclined and had better firewalls on my pc.
Or I can be exposed to some offshoot of Russian State TV by certain prominent commenters here. Why is it that those of a nationalistic or even Western Chauvinist bent are often such easy fans of this Soviet-revivalist Russian regime? (I think I’m correct to find significant overlap there). Is it part of a reflexive opposition to any stance that is seen as mainstream or liberal/progressive?
Certainly this war is hellish and not really good for anyone, and this article doesn’t run from that, sympathetic bias notwithstanding. But this fight is undoubtedly, understandably–and by demonstrated sacrifice and valor (on the whole)–preferable to non-existence from a Ukrainian perspective. And Russia could end this tomorrow without any threat to its military, legitimate sovereignty, or status as the geographically largest nation on the globe. The only increased threat would be, perhaps, to Putin himself, who would have been better off even from a calculating, self-interested point-of-view if he’d let this one go to begin with.
Russia is now transitioning from the delusional to the psychotic.
Before, Putin and those who count in Russia had just totally misread Ukraine, the EU and the US.
Bakhmut signals the New Phase.
Now Putin defies reality, and keeps ordering the automaton that is the Russian Army to smash itself to pieces in places like Bakhmut and Vuhledar.
Na, the Russians are slowly winning
When they take Bakhmut. We will be told its of no real significance, but if that’s true, why did the Ukraine hold on for so long, losing so much men and equipment for nothing
Because the defences are strong. it destroys so many Russians.
And if they take it, they’re creating defences just as strong behind it.
Remember how Pisky was supposed to be the “winning” battle?
Before that Sieverodonetsk?
…before that Hostomel?
…before that…
The propaganda runs deep in this one. I suppose you’re still thankful you took the “safe and effective” “vaccines” aye Martin?
Yep! And I feel GREAT.
Be sure to get your booster
Don’t worry. Already have.
Don’t worry. Already have.
Be sure to get your booster
Yep! And I feel GREAT.
I can’t understand people who with little knowledge of anything much will assert Russia is winning, and it’s tactics and strategy are now great.
And how Ukraine, The West, Italy or Germany will have to break ranks and start sueing for peace, while Russia will just go on and on losing people in battle, and losing smart people to anywhere that isn’t Russia where your career as a financial analyst or tach start up entrepreneur could end with an eye blown out in a freezing ditch near some Godforsaken place you had never heard of three days ago.
The Ukrainians are fighting for home, family, culture, and so on…most of the Russians are fighting to get back home without a life changing wound, let alone in a body bag.
That’s why Ukraine will win.
Would you say retired US generals /Colonels have “little knowledge” of the situation? (Obviously those still in service are toeing the official Military Industrial complex line).. What you assert is “nice” but sadly mere wishful thinking.. Russia is unbeatable I’m afraid.. ask Hitler; ask Napoleon.. they may appear to be beaten but don’t believe it for a minute. For starters its economy is doing well notwithstanding the war! It has many supporters notwithstanding the sanctions. The BRICS and Global South are sick to the back teeth of US hegemony and UK neo colonialism..
I’ll get back to you in a few years and say:
“Ittold ye so, didn’t I?”
“Russia is unbeatable I’m afraid.. ask Hitler; ask Napoleon”.
Wrong, the Mongols managed it without too much trouble.
Russia is unbeatable from the West, Charles, but not from the East.
Max Hoffman & Co managed it in 1918.
Max Hoffman & Co managed it in 1918.
Nor is their power absolute and uncheckable from the West, or Putin (or likely someone else) would be Premier of the USSR right now.
But maybe Gorbachev’s openness to reform was an unearned Cold War gift.
Mongols defeated Kievan Rus, which paved the way for the Grand Duchy of Moscow and the Tsardom of Russia to dominate over the following centuries! Kievan Rus’ main city for much of its existence was modern day Kyiv!
As did Britain France and Turkey in 1855.
Factually, Russia has lost about as many wars as it has won.
Although we shouldn’t forget that Russian Guardsman dined in Paris in 1814.
Although we shouldn’t forget that Russian Guardsman dined in Paris in 1814.
Russia is unbeatable from the West, Charles, but not from the East.
Nor is their power absolute and uncheckable from the West, or Putin (or likely someone else) would be Premier of the USSR right now.
But maybe Gorbachev’s openness to reform was an unearned Cold War gift.
Mongols defeated Kievan Rus, which paved the way for the Grand Duchy of Moscow and the Tsardom of Russia to dominate over the following centuries! Kievan Rus’ main city for much of its existence was modern day Kyiv!
As did Britain France and Turkey in 1855.
Factually, Russia has lost about as many wars as it has won.
Unbeatable except in 1856, 1905, 1917 and 1989.
Russia is very beatable, it would have lost relatively easily in the Second World War if
A. It wasn’t heavily supplied with equipment and logistics by the Allies, and
B. H1tler hadn’t stretched his forces too thinly by attacking both Britain and the Soviet Union at the same time.
The Soviets were also the defensive forces during the N@zis initial assaults which generally requires less forces, whereas this time they are attacking which is much more difficult to sustain
“Russia is unbeatable I’m afraid.. ask Hitler; ask Napoleon”.
Wrong, the Mongols managed it without too much trouble.
Unbeatable except in 1856, 1905, 1917 and 1989.
Russia is very beatable, it would have lost relatively easily in the Second World War if
A. It wasn’t heavily supplied with equipment and logistics by the Allies, and
B. H1tler hadn’t stretched his forces too thinly by attacking both Britain and the Soviet Union at the same time.
The Soviets were also the defensive forces during the N@zis initial assaults which generally requires less forces, whereas this time they are attacking which is much more difficult to sustain
Would you say retired US generals /Colonels have “little knowledge” of the situation? (Obviously those still in service are toeing the official Military Industrial complex line).. What you assert is “nice” but sadly mere wishful thinking.. Russia is unbeatable I’m afraid.. ask Hitler; ask Napoleon.. they may appear to be beaten but don’t believe it for a minute. For starters its economy is doing well notwithstanding the war! It has many supporters notwithstanding the sanctions. The BRICS and Global South are sick to the back teeth of US hegemony and UK neo colonialism..
I’ll get back to you in a few years and say:
“Ittold ye so, didn’t I?”
The propaganda runs deep in this one. I suppose you’re still thankful you took the “safe and effective” “vaccines” aye Martin?
I can’t understand people who with little knowledge of anything much will assert Russia is winning, and it’s tactics and strategy are now great.
And how Ukraine, The West, Italy or Germany will have to break ranks and start sueing for peace, while Russia will just go on and on losing people in battle, and losing smart people to anywhere that isn’t Russia where your career as a financial analyst or tach start up entrepreneur could end with an eye blown out in a freezing ditch near some Godforsaken place you had never heard of three days ago.
The Ukrainians are fighting for home, family, culture, and so on…most of the Russians are fighting to get back home without a life changing wound, let alone in a body bag.
That’s why Ukraine will win.
Because they are bleeding the Russians white. Russia is wasting tens of thousands of men in frontal assaults. Why wouldn’t the Ukrainians want that to continue? The casualty ratio is probably 5:1 in their favor. Maybe more.
The Wehrmacht inflicted 7 to I and still LOST.
With Russia’s birth rate (abortion capital of the world!) that won’t work this time.
Also, no one’s going to attack Ukraine from the West to bail the Russkies out this time. Without US and British Lend Lease aid, Russia would have lost badly. 30,000 tanks, 25,000 airplanes, almost every single truck they had after 1942, 100% of their av gas, 100% of their combat rations..
At least we made them pay for it in GOLD!
Do you recall H.M.S.Edinburgh?
To say nothing of the 3000 Allied sailors who died bringing the stuff to Russia.
At least we made them pay for it in GOLD!
Do you recall H.M.S.Edinburgh?
To say nothing of the 3000 Allied sailors who died bringing the stuff to Russia.
With Russia’s birth rate (abortion capital of the world!) that won’t work this time.
Also, no one’s going to attack Ukraine from the West to bail the Russkies out this time. Without US and British Lend Lease aid, Russia would have lost badly. 30,000 tanks, 25,000 airplanes, almost every single truck they had after 1942, 100% of their av gas, 100% of their combat rations..
Western MSM I’m afraid.. Ukraine is already as good as defeated.. 150,000 dead; 257,000 seriously wounded.. we’re just waiting for the fat lady to sing the dirge.. Why do you think the US, UK, Poland et al are readying their own troops to take over? Tragically, no more Ukrainian fighters left. Great business for the US military industrial complex but thats about it.. that’s the US’s last hope to save the One World Order and Dollarisation..
Personally, I think it’s screwed and may well resort to nuclear weapons soon: not Russia mind. NATO/US.. no option left (except go under).. the elite have their nuke shelters so they’ll be okay …they think!
That’s why you can only trust the outer-fringe, anti-Western media!
This is pure Russian propaganda. Lie after lie after lie.
If Russia has made casualties of 100% of the pre-war Ukrainian army plus 200,000, why can’t they advance?
If NATO wanted to get involved, it would destroy the entire Russian military in two weeks.
That’s why you can only trust the outer-fringe, anti-Western media!
This is pure Russian propaganda. Lie after lie after lie.
If Russia has made casualties of 100% of the pre-war Ukrainian army plus 200,000, why can’t they advance?
If NATO wanted to get involved, it would destroy the entire Russian military in two weeks.
the Russians or the Ukraine are NOT sending thousands of men in human wave attacks, if they were we would have seen videos of it by now
We saw plenty of videos of Russians being massacred in the fields around Bakhmut. You must have ignored them.
We saw plenty of videos of Russians being massacred in the fields around Bakhmut. You must have ignored them.
The Wehrmacht inflicted 7 to I and still LOST.
Western MSM I’m afraid.. Ukraine is already as good as defeated.. 150,000 dead; 257,000 seriously wounded.. we’re just waiting for the fat lady to sing the dirge.. Why do you think the US, UK, Poland et al are readying their own troops to take over? Tragically, no more Ukrainian fighters left. Great business for the US military industrial complex but thats about it.. that’s the US’s last hope to save the One World Order and Dollarisation..
Personally, I think it’s screwed and may well resort to nuclear weapons soon: not Russia mind. NATO/US.. no option left (except go under).. the elite have their nuke shelters so they’ll be okay …they think!
the Russians or the Ukraine are NOT sending thousands of men in human wave attacks, if they were we would have seen videos of it by now
Correct.. whatever Western MSM tells you it’s likely the opposite is true, eg Ukraine is winning, Russia is losing.
Right. “Democracy is preferable to the alternatives”. “Don’t drink gasoline”.
It’s a good thing the mainstream media is an easily detected veil that simply needs to be flipped inside out for a clear and correct view. Whereas everything that paranoid, angry cranks or cynical self-promoters like like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson say is quite reliable–wait, are those two guys too mainstream to trust also?
Right. “Democracy is preferable to the alternatives”. “Don’t drink gasoline”.
It’s a good thing the mainstream media is an easily detected veil that simply needs to be flipped inside out for a clear and correct view. Whereas everything that paranoid, angry cranks or cynical self-promoters like like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson say is quite reliable–wait, are those two guys too mainstream to trust also?
Because the russians are losing 10-20 times more? It has kept them focused on one area of the vast front for a very long time, too.
Because the defences are strong. it destroys so many Russians.
And if they take it, they’re creating defences just as strong behind it.
Remember how Pisky was supposed to be the “winning” battle?
Before that Sieverodonetsk?
…before that Hostomel?
…before that…
Because they are bleeding the Russians white. Russia is wasting tens of thousands of men in frontal assaults. Why wouldn’t the Ukrainians want that to continue? The casualty ratio is probably 5:1 in their favor. Maybe more.
Correct.. whatever Western MSM tells you it’s likely the opposite is true, eg Ukraine is winning, Russia is losing.
Because the russians are losing 10-20 times more? It has kept them focused on one area of the vast front for a very long time, too.
Mariupol. Severdonesk. Lysichansk. The three actual battles. All won by RF. The Bahkmut-Siversk line is the last deeply fortified line. When it breaks it is on to Kramatorsk. Probably by May.
Can we get back to you on that one.
In May?
Funny how after those “victories” the Ukrainians took Kherson and Kharkiv. Far larger territories than all of those combined.
The Russian Army isn’t exactly a juggernaut, is it?
So (or similar) said the Wermacht and Napoleon before that.. didn’t quite end up like that though did it?
Problem is, Putin doesn’t have 5 million like Stalin did.
Better not listen to Strelkov’s latest video, then, where he strongly advises Putin against an offensive, for which they are totally unprepared.
Problem is, Putin doesn’t have 5 million like Stalin did.
Better not listen to Strelkov’s latest video, then, where he strongly advises Putin against an offensive, for which they are totally unprepared.
So (or similar) said the Wermacht and Napoleon before that.. didn’t quite end up like that though did it?
Can we get back to you on that one.
In May?
Funny how after those “victories” the Ukrainians took Kherson and Kharkiv. Far larger territories than all of those combined.
The Russian Army isn’t exactly a juggernaut, is it?
Na, the Russians are slowly winning
When they take Bakhmut. We will be told its of no real significance, but if that’s true, why did the Ukraine hold on for so long, losing so much men and equipment for nothing
Mariupol. Severdonesk. Lysichansk. The three actual battles. All won by RF. The Bahkmut-Siversk line is the last deeply fortified line. When it breaks it is on to Kramatorsk. Probably by May.
Russia is now transitioning from the delusional to the psychotic.
Before, Putin and those who count in Russia had just totally misread Ukraine, the EU and the US.
Bakhmut signals the New Phase.
Now Putin defies reality, and keeps ordering the automaton that is the Russian Army to smash itself to pieces in places like Bakhmut and Vuhledar.
One thing that seems increasingly more clear is that this war will continue for a very long time even if this phase were to end soon.
I believe that was the NATO (ie US) plan from the beginning. Nobody gives a flying wassit for Ukraine or its people.. it’s just a proxy war to eviscerate Russia (which will never happen) and wreck Europe which is well under way! it’s all going according to plan.. no losers except Ukrainian lives and European economies.. The US loves it (thinking Russia is weakening.. wrong!) and the EU is screwed.. right. Putin is also remaking European history and his economy is thriving.. these are the winners.
Then what you are really saying is the US is run by super-humans who can predict every alternative in the world far into the future?
Again, it totally changes my view of Joe Biden.
Then what you are really saying is the US is run by super-humans who can predict every alternative in the world far into the future?
Again, it totally changes my view of Joe Biden.
I believe that was the NATO (ie US) plan from the beginning. Nobody gives a flying wassit for Ukraine or its people.. it’s just a proxy war to eviscerate Russia (which will never happen) and wreck Europe which is well under way! it’s all going according to plan.. no losers except Ukrainian lives and European economies.. The US loves it (thinking Russia is weakening.. wrong!) and the EU is screwed.. right. Putin is also remaking European history and his economy is thriving.. these are the winners.
One thing that seems increasingly more clear is that this war will continue for a very long time even if this phase were to end soon.
Strategically insignificant slaughterhouses. Ypres and Verdun come to mind.
Verdun was intended as a slaughterhouse (by Falkenhayn) – that was its strategic significance.
Then blew the strategy by getting sucked in by the early successes.
And the German army in the West never launched another offensive–until the Eastern Army was freed by the 1917 Revolution.
It wasn’t “freed by the Revolution” it was freed because the German Army under the direction of Max Hoffman defeated the Tsar, Karensky and the loathsome Bolsheviks in short order, and imposed a ‘Carthaginian Peace’.
It wasn’t “freed by the Revolution” it was freed because the German Army under the direction of Max Hoffman defeated the Tsar, Karensky and the loathsome Bolsheviks in short order, and imposed a ‘Carthaginian Peace’.
Then blew the strategy by getting sucked in by the early successes.
And the German army in the West never launched another offensive–until the Eastern Army was freed by the 1917 Revolution.
Verdun was intended as a slaughterhouse (by Falkenhayn) – that was its strategic significance.
Strategically insignificant slaughterhouses. Ypres and Verdun come to mind.
Why are there so many pro-Russian stooges on UnHerd and why do they get upvotes?
Some people have an alternative opinion, and although you may not agree with it, they are entitled to it. We do after all come to UnHerd to avoid echo chambers reinforcing our own beliefs.
If this is a issue for you, I can recommend The Guardian.
I’m a died in the wool conservative; why would I read the Guardian?
If your opinion is that Russian is right to conquer Ukraine, and the West should stand aside and let it happen, you should be ashamed of yourself. You’re nothing but a toady for a brutal dictator.
I’m a died in the wool conservative; why would I read the Guardian?
If your opinion is that Russian is right to conquer Ukraine, and the West should stand aside and let it happen, you should be ashamed of yourself. You’re nothing but a toady for a brutal dictator.
Some people have an alternative opinion, and although you may not agree with it, they are entitled to it. We do after all come to UnHerd to avoid echo chambers reinforcing our own beliefs.
If this is a issue for you, I can recommend The Guardian.
Why are there so many pro-Russian stooges on UnHerd and why do they get upvotes?
Wow, no wonder people get their brains scrambled!
The phony tweet that thousands of NATO troops had been killed in Ukraine also claimed the info came from MOSSAD?! They make no such claim, and wouldn’t. They have a few more…pressing targets right now.
I am continually in awe of how people voluntarily dumb themselves down with garbage sites and people like LTC Scott Ritter.
I also begin to see just who’s buying into all those scams on the internet.
Wow, no wonder people get their brains scrambled!
The phony tweet that thousands of NATO troops had been killed in Ukraine also claimed the info came from MOSSAD?! They make no such claim, and wouldn’t. They have a few more…pressing targets right now.
I am continually in awe of how people voluntarily dumb themselves down with garbage sites and people like LTC Scott Ritter.
I also begin to see just who’s buying into all those scams on the internet.
My goodness, this board is infested with posts from Vlad Putin’s Troll Battalion, all with phony Irish names.
Dia duit mo chara, conas a ta tu
my goodness, this board is infested with British sheep who sit on their sofas and swallow everything their MSM feeds them … no need for independent thinking
what you don’t like is Russian propaganda ..!!..the same thing you did in Vietnam ..until Yugoslavia and Iraq !!! USA :..a country with the most wars in history and with the creation of hundreds of coups all over the world!!….a country called Democracy: a political system where two same, similar parties rule here for 200 years!!! …do you have any idea what the rest of the world calls you (except England) ?????? …imperialist murderers ???….
Dia duit mo chara, conas a ta tu
my goodness, this board is infested with British sheep who sit on their sofas and swallow everything their MSM feeds them … no need for independent thinking
what you don’t like is Russian propaganda ..!!..the same thing you did in Vietnam ..until Yugoslavia and Iraq !!! USA :..a country with the most wars in history and with the creation of hundreds of coups all over the world!!….a country called Democracy: a political system where two same, similar parties rule here for 200 years!!! …do you have any idea what the rest of the world calls you (except England) ?????? …imperialist murderers ???….
My goodness, this board is infested with posts from Vlad Putin’s Troll Battalion, all with phony Irish names.
Sobering, sobering stuff. Thanks for this.
Sobering, sobering stuff. Thanks for this.
Better start thinking very seriously about what happens after Putin.
He’s bet his whole regime on total conquest of Ukraine. When it either turns to a stalemate in Donbas, or he, more likely, loses Crimea, he will fall. The pro-war Russians will tear him limb from limb as a traitor.
And he has cleverly made sure no one can succeed him. So every ruthless politician in Russia will begin to fight with every other crook. It won’t be like the 90s. It will be like 1918-22.
When you put a hundred starving rats in a sealed barrel, it never winds up looking pretty.
Better start thinking very seriously about what happens after Putin.
He’s bet his whole regime on total conquest of Ukraine. When it either turns to a stalemate in Donbas, or he, more likely, loses Crimea, he will fall. The pro-war Russians will tear him limb from limb as a traitor.
And he has cleverly made sure no one can succeed him. So every ruthless politician in Russia will begin to fight with every other crook. It won’t be like the 90s. It will be like 1918-22.
When you put a hundred starving rats in a sealed barrel, it never winds up looking pretty.
Patrikarakos is brave to go there.
Patrikarakos is brave to go there.
How is it possible for the Russians to have thousands dead yet have an overwhelming artillery advantage. Could there be any deception here. All very confusing
Because they’re attacking. Ukrainians are in fortified bunkers, Russians are sending unsupported infantry to attack them. One Ukrainian shell will kill far more Russians than 10 Russian shells will kill Ukrainians in that scenario.
Russian artillery is much more scattershot than the NATO-produced artillery Ukraine is using. Russians bombard a position with 30 shells and even then may not hit it.
16,000 dead missing Russians (volunteer separatists LPR and DPR, Wagner, Chechens and regular Russian army) and 160,000 dead missing Ukrainians …these are the real numbers until December 2022 ….the rest is yellow Vietnam-Yugoslavia style propaganda !!
Because they’re attacking. Ukrainians are in fortified bunkers, Russians are sending unsupported infantry to attack them. One Ukrainian shell will kill far more Russians than 10 Russian shells will kill Ukrainians in that scenario.
Russian artillery is much more scattershot than the NATO-produced artillery Ukraine is using. Russians bombard a position with 30 shells and even then may not hit it.
16,000 dead missing Russians (volunteer separatists LPR and DPR, Wagner, Chechens and regular Russian army) and 160,000 dead missing Ukrainians …these are the real numbers until December 2022 ….the rest is yellow Vietnam-Yugoslavia style propaganda !!
How is it possible for the Russians to have thousands dead yet have an overwhelming artillery advantage. Could there be any deception here. All very confusing
A political cartoon from the late 1980’s keeps coming to mind.
One pile of skulls exclaims, “We’re winning!” An opposing pile of skulls contends, “No, we are!”
It was about the Iran-Iraq war.
It was easier to get information about the Iran-Iraq war than it is about the war in the Ukraine.
I think it only seemed that way because the news was so pre-curated; that’s also why it seemed more “fair.” There’s an abundance of information now if you look for it. I prefer news streams from former Warsaw Block countries.
I think it only seemed that way because the news was so pre-curated; that’s also why it seemed more “fair.” There’s an abundance of information now if you look for it. I prefer news streams from former Warsaw Block countries.
A political cartoon from the late 1980’s keeps coming to mind.
One pile of skulls exclaims, “We’re winning!” An opposing pile of skulls contends, “No, we are!”
It was about the Iran-Iraq war.
It was easier to get information about the Iran-Iraq war than it is about the war in the Ukraine.
I almost laughed myself off my chair when I read the childish claims that Ukraine’s casualties are EIGHT TIMES higher than Ukraine’s.
That only happens in something called “a rout,” such as the Six Day War or the offensive on Iraq. In every other war in history the attacker always suffers more than the defender–until when/if a rout occurs.
Why not just say “we killed a gazillion-gazillion Hokols?”
Moreover, Russia is using artillery that is either WWII or Soviet era, or whose gun barrels have worn out from a year’s intense fire. They are wildly inaccurate.
Russia also has almost no ability to recon, since the Russian air force doesn’t dare venture into Ukrainian air space, and their army’s drones don’t work in winter.
Remember, the hapless Russian “mobiks” come from the least educated part of society.
Whereas, on the Ukrainian side, this is a People in Arms, with people from all levels of society. Ukrainians have far more cheap drones–and far more people with the skills to use them.
Patrikarakos’ report accurately reflects the mood in the ranks. Every Russian speaker who voted for the peace candidate Zelensky feels betrayed. Putin promised not to invade right up to 24 Feb.
Now they want to kill every “mobik” they can catch.
So be prepared.
When they get their Leopards and Bradleys ready, this isn’t going to be pretty.
Nice to see that I am read!
Yeah and flagging off the people that have called out your b*** sh*t. Low.
The Censor is busy today and has almost ruined this interesting conversation sadly Ms Emery.
Very busy. Every time I have replied on that thread its been removed. I didn’t even swear.
In fact I’d just replied to your earlier post and it was gone!
You two are not kidding. I made a long reply to your long and thoughtful reply above, in what I though was a sane, civil, even feel-good exchange. But both posts were disappeared. Are there certain verboten views on this topic here?
Perhaps we’ll see them trickle in hours later, which is far from UnHerd of (I know).
Thank you! I hoped it was feel good and reasonably balanced, tried not to get my rant on too much. I’ll look out for your reply 🙂
I’m not sure if it is unherd censorship or comment flagging. Others seem to have had trouble too above, maybe we could have some guidance if it is a topic with views that they have to censor?
Maybe so. Those specific comments seem like strange ones to censor or for anyone else to flag though.
It’s still happening……
It’s still happening……
Maybe so. Those specific comments seem like strange ones to censor or for anyone else to flag though.
Thank you! I hoped it was feel good and reasonably balanced, tried not to get my rant on too much. I’ll look out for your reply 🙂
I’m not sure if it is unherd censorship or comment flagging. Others seem to have had trouble too above, maybe we could have some guidance if it is a topic with views that they have to censor?
You two are not kidding. I made a long reply to your long and thoughtful reply above, in what I though was a sane, civil, even feel-good exchange. But both posts were disappeared. Are there certain verboten views on this topic here?
Perhaps we’ll see them trickle in hours later, which is far from UnHerd of (I know).
Very busy. Every time I have replied on that thread its been removed. I didn’t even swear.
In fact I’d just replied to your earlier post and it was gone!
The Censor is busy today and has almost ruined this interesting conversation sadly Ms Emery.
Would you like to correct your first sentence.
There is an edit facility!
Yeah and flagging off the people that have called out your b*** sh*t. Low.
Would you like to correct your first sentence.
There is an edit facility!
I think you need to edit your first sentence: Ukraine’s casualties are EIGHT TIMES higher than Ukraine’s.?
Your first sentence needs revision.. might be a slip of the old Freudian whassit?
Nice to see that I am read!
I think you need to edit your first sentence: Ukraine’s casualties are EIGHT TIMES higher than Ukraine’s.?
Your first sentence needs revision.. might be a slip of the old Freudian whassit?
I almost laughed myself off my chair when I read the childish claims that Ukraine’s casualties are EIGHT TIMES higher than Ukraine’s.
That only happens in something called “a rout,” such as the Six Day War or the offensive on Iraq. In every other war in history the attacker always suffers more than the defender–until when/if a rout occurs.
Why not just say “we killed a gazillion-gazillion Hokols?”
Moreover, Russia is using artillery that is either WWII or Soviet era, or whose gun barrels have worn out from a year’s intense fire. They are wildly inaccurate.
Russia also has almost no ability to recon, since the Russian air force doesn’t dare venture into Ukrainian air space, and their army’s drones don’t work in winter.
Remember, the hapless Russian “mobiks” come from the least educated part of society.
Whereas, on the Ukrainian side, this is a People in Arms, with people from all levels of society. Ukrainians have far more cheap drones–and far more people with the skills to use them.
Patrikarakos’ report accurately reflects the mood in the ranks. Every Russian speaker who voted for the peace candidate Zelensky feels betrayed. Putin promised not to invade right up to 24 Feb.
Now they want to kill every “mobik” they can catch.
So be prepared.
When they get their Leopards and Bradleys ready, this isn’t going to be pretty.
The UK MoD tells you Bakhmut has little value, but obviously the protagonists who actually have skin in the game, Russia and Ukraine, see it differently.
You should ask why the MoD is lying to you about that, and if they lie about that, what other lies they are telling.
Simple really. To win a war you have to defeat the forces of the enemy. If the Russians advance on an unimportant place, that gives Ukraine an opportunity to attrite them that risks little crucial ground. If the Ukrainians do not fight them there, the Russians will advance to somewhere important where the Ukrainians would risk losing far more than men.
Simple really. To win a war you have to defeat the forces of the enemy. If the Russians advance on an unimportant place, that gives Ukraine an opportunity to attrite them that risks little crucial ground. If the Ukrainians do not fight them there, the Russians will advance to somewhere important where the Ukrainians would risk losing far more than men.
The UK MoD tells you Bakhmut has little value, but obviously the protagonists who actually have skin in the game, Russia and Ukraine, see it differently.
You should ask why the MoD is lying to you about that, and if they lie about that, what other lies they are telling.
Deep State propaganda makes you a good ally. Ukraine has lost more soldiers than Russia but using inversion is a time tested technique of agit propping.
“The objective for today is to come back alive.” Yevgeny is a young commando from the “Mad Pack”, a special forces unit that has been fighting in Bakhmut since November. His words are familiar — lacquered with that mix of emotions common to almost all soldiers fighting on the frontlines of war: laughter and unease. We clamber into a Land Cruiser and head toward the city. “The situation is always changing,” he continues. “But one thing remains the same: the line of contact is always active.”
It eventually transpires you are with a Ukrainian unit. Why do you assume I assume that?
“The objective for today is to come back alive.” Yevgeny is a young commando from the “Mad Pack”, a special forces unit that has been fighting in Bakhmut since November. His words are familiar — lacquered with that mix of emotions common to almost all soldiers fighting on the frontlines of war: laughter and unease. We clamber into a Land Cruiser and head toward the city. “The situation is always changing,” he continues. “But one thing remains the same: the line of contact is always active.”
It eventually transpires you are with a Ukrainian unit. Why do you assume I assume that?
This writer is off his proverbial trolley. The cool tattoos, the topknots and swaggering cigarette smoking poet/warrriors have blinded him to reality. The worst part is the confession by projection. Any serious analysis of the Battle of Bahkmut paints the entirely opposite picture. It is in fact the unfortunate reality that it is Ukraine that is suffering unsubstainable losses. Russia does not fight with ‘human wave’ tactics. That is entirely projection. Russia fights in BTG formations ( Battalion Tactical Groups) where virtually every man has a seat inside armour. Only after days and days of constant shelling does a Russian infantry soldier ever venture into the open. Russia is very casualty averse. That is not to say that the Russian side does not suffer serious losses. They do. However it is likely an 8:1 advantage for Russia. Ukraine airforce no longer exists. They beg for tanks and armour because Russia has destroyed most of what they had. Ukraine is in a very serious manpower crisis. They are tapped out of fighting age men. (Its estimated that 1 to 1.5 million fighting age Ukrainian men are abroad but those arent coming back voluntarily)
Sounds like the major global powers and news sources are deluded, and that Putin’s army will soon prevail–according to your analysis and apparent rooting interest.
…how about leaving it at “your analysis” why did you have to throw in “and apparent rooting interest”. Just a disingenuous and entirely unnecessary slight. Apologise!
Haha! Heck no. That’s what I detect in the above post and the poster–whose extreme views I’ve encountered on other boards–can contradict or explode my accusation if he wants to.
I admit that I wasn’t as polite as it possibly could be, but how can you of all people, Mr. O’ Mahony–take issue with unnecessary slights? You are one of the most consistently self-certain, angry, and rude people on this whole site, which is quite an accomplishment if not something I’d be proud of.
You are no stranger to the unnecessary slight yourself, sir. Most of what gets said here is unnecessary according to any strict definition of need, but that doesn’t mean it’s unwarranted–or that your owed an apology on your comrade’s behalf.
My extreme views? On other boards? Really? Oh please tell me where to find some of them so I can revist.
Unherd appears to make it glitchy for those who dont follow establishment narratives on the war. You are spot on. Tried to upvote but was prevented.
Unherd appears to make it glitchy for those who dont follow establishment narratives on the war. You are spot on. Tried to upvote but was prevented.
My extreme views? On other boards? Really? Oh please tell me where to find some of them so I can revist.
Haha! Heck no. That’s what I detect in the above post and the poster–whose extreme views I’ve encountered on other boards–can contradict or explode my accusation if he wants to.
I admit that I wasn’t as polite as it possibly could be, but how can you of all people, Mr. O’ Mahony–take issue with unnecessary slights? You are one of the most consistently self-certain, angry, and rude people on this whole site, which is quite an accomplishment if not something I’d be proud of.
You are no stranger to the unnecessary slight yourself, sir. Most of what gets said here is unnecessary according to any strict definition of need, but that doesn’t mean it’s unwarranted–or that your owed an apology on your comrade’s behalf.
…how about leaving it at “your analysis” why did you have to throw in “and apparent rooting interest”. Just a disingenuous and entirely unnecessary slight. Apologise!
Tend to agree with you – all the non MSM sources describe a very different battle. The Russians are creating a cauldron around Bahkmut and sucking in Ukrainian forces and decimating them with artillery fire which as you point out they have an 8 to 1 advantage.
Whatever is actually happening on the ground, and we all simply don’t know, we can be sure of one thing. That is, the accepted narrative must be something that keeps the military industrial complex alive and well.
Yes. Everything leads back to the MIC and the US’s last gasp attempt to save the dollar and One World Order..
Yes. Everything leads back to the MIC and the US’s last gasp attempt to save the dollar and One World Order..
Whatever is actually happening on the ground, and we all simply don’t know, we can be sure of one thing. That is, the accepted narrative must be something that keeps the military industrial complex alive and well.
MG, he knows the truth, but he’s a neocon he has to lie for the cause
Ukraine has a million-man reserve it can call on.
And any army that doesn’t have enough infantry to fight OUTSIDE the vehicle can be destroyed by dismounted infantry.
That’s the whole reason the attacks on Kyiv and Kharkiv failed
No dismounted infantry.
Learn something about war.
It’s really interested in you.
Ukraine is in a desperate manpower crisis. If you believe they have one million ready and in reserve then I have a bridge to sell you. Russia has a mission: de-militarize Ukraine. Timeline: as long as it takes.
Then why hasn’t Putin actually called up more men?
He has about a quarter of a million men in Ukraine, about half are the new, poorly trained “mobiks” (or “speed bumps” as they are also called).
Not exactly Stalin’s Five Corps of Siberian Ski troops in 1941, is it?
Then why hasn’t Putin actually called up more men?
He has about a quarter of a million men in Ukraine, about half are the new, poorly trained “mobiks” (or “speed bumps” as they are also called).
Not exactly Stalin’s Five Corps of Siberian Ski troops in 1941, is it?
Ukraine is in a desperate manpower crisis. If you believe they have one million ready and in reserve then I have a bridge to sell you. Russia has a mission: de-militarize Ukraine. Timeline: as long as it takes.
Yes. You are right. Tried to upvote but was prevented by site again
Sounds like the major global powers and news sources are deluded, and that Putin’s army will soon prevail–according to your analysis and apparent rooting interest.
Tend to agree with you – all the non MSM sources describe a very different battle. The Russians are creating a cauldron around Bahkmut and sucking in Ukrainian forces and decimating them with artillery fire which as you point out they have an 8 to 1 advantage.
MG, he knows the truth, but he’s a neocon he has to lie for the cause
Ukraine has a million-man reserve it can call on.
And any army that doesn’t have enough infantry to fight OUTSIDE the vehicle can be destroyed by dismounted infantry.
That’s the whole reason the attacks on Kyiv and Kharkiv failed
No dismounted infantry.
Learn something about war.
It’s really interested in you.
Yes. You are right. Tried to upvote but was prevented by site again
This writer is off his proverbial trolley. The cool tattoos, the topknots and swaggering cigarette smoking poet/warrriors have blinded him to reality. The worst part is the confession by projection. Any serious analysis of the Battle of Bahkmut paints the entirely opposite picture. It is in fact the unfortunate reality that it is Ukraine that is suffering unsubstainable losses. Russia does not fight with ‘human wave’ tactics. That is entirely projection. Russia fights in BTG formations ( Battalion Tactical Groups) where virtually every man has a seat inside armour. Only after days and days of constant shelling does a Russian infantry soldier ever venture into the open. Russia is very casualty averse. That is not to say that the Russian side does not suffer serious losses. They do. However it is likely an 8:1 advantage for Russia. Ukraine airforce no longer exists. They beg for tanks and armour because Russia has destroyed most of what they had. Ukraine is in a very serious manpower crisis. They are tapped out of fighting age men. (Its estimated that 1 to 1.5 million fighting age Ukrainian men are abroad but those arent coming back voluntarily)
Amazing piece of propaganda, Russians are dying by the thousand in Bakhmut, but no Ukrainian ever dies
The Russian army can’t shoot straight and the Ukrainian army never misses
Try reading the article again.
I did read it, I liked the part that said they were now dropping sex toys on the Russians, so we can now add grenades to the long list of weapons the Ukrainian army is running out of
Well this may be news to you but you didn’t as others have pointed out. Thing is, to equate your views and mentality to the period 1939-45 you’ll be siding with one of the worst despots the planet has experienced, as do your like minded commenters on this thread. Then you can throw in Stalin and his protege Putin, and that tells us where you’re coming from either geographically or mentally.
So…? ..doesn’t negate the point dies it? in fact kind proves it almost, doesn’t it?
So…? ..doesn’t negate the point dies it? in fact kind proves it almost, doesn’t it?
Well this may be news to you but you didn’t as others have pointed out. Thing is, to equate your views and mentality to the period 1939-45 you’ll be siding with one of the worst despots the planet has experienced, as do your like minded commenters on this thread. Then you can throw in Stalin and his protege Putin, and that tells us where you’re coming from either geographically or mentally.
I did read it, I liked the part that said they were now dropping sex toys on the Russians, so we can now add grenades to the long list of weapons the Ukrainian army is running out of
Significant losses says the article.Read it properly
That must have been edited out since you read the article.
“The situation is difficult, he admits, but controlled. The Ukrainians have suffered significant losses, as have the enemy. ” 9.25pm GMT
“The situation is difficult, he admits, but controlled. The Ukrainians have suffered significant losses, as have the enemy. ” 9.25pm GMT
Unbiased military sources estimate that 8-10 Ukrainian soldiers are dying for every Russian soldier. Former U.S. Marine Scott Ritter, former U.S. Marine Tony Cartalucci (who hosts The New Atlas on YouTube) and retired U.S. Army colonel (and former tank commander) Douglas Mcgregor provide invaluable insight (YouTube) into what’s actually happening on the Ukrainian battlefield, and what the end game will be. Consensus: Ukraine loses…and the total death count will be unimaginable. But, The U.S. Military Industrial Complex will win again, as it always does. It seems that the South Korean, Polish, Chinese, Czech, Iranian, Turkish and Russian military industrial manufacturers are also having a sales bonanza as weaponry is depleted in Ukraine and Russia, and an inexhaustible amount of money is available to buy replacement munitions.
” War is hugely profitable. It creates so much money because it’s so easy to spend money very fast. There are huge fortunes to be made. So there is always an encouragement to promote war and keep it going, to make sure that we identify people who are ‘others’ whom we can legitimately make war upon. ” Roger Waters
YouTube/Rumble shows Redacted, Kim Iverson, The Grayzone, Alex Christoforou, Judge Napolitano, and The Duran all provide none Mainstream Media assessments of the Ukraine proxy war…which is unabashedly being hosted by the U.S. and NATO.
“Unbiased sources” – by what metric? They’ve been reporting Russian victory in Bakhmut for weeks now, yet it grinds on.
They’ve been claiming victory for SEVEN months.
They’ve been claiming victory for SEVEN months.
Ah, yes, the Scott Ritter that supports ethnic cleansing of Ukraine.
Scott Ritter the convicted sex offender.
THAT Scott Ritter…
But the referenced garbage sites don’t mention that attackers always lose more people than defenders.
Attackers don’t always lose more people than defenders, particularly not if the attackers have far greater fire power and air superiority.
Singapore, 1942.
Wow, I didn’t’ know the Russian Navy had isolated Bakhmut.
Wow, I didn’t’ know the Russian Navy had isolated Bakhmut.
The Russians have to first draw the Ukrainian fire, which can only come from sending infantry forward to die.
No other army in history has done what Russia is supposed to be doing–and it doesn’t advance an inch.
Anyone who knows anything about war realizes that these claims are all crap created by Russia.
Singapore, 1942.
The Russians have to first draw the Ukrainian fire, which can only come from sending infantry forward to die.
No other army in history has done what Russia is supposed to be doing–and it doesn’t advance an inch.
Anyone who knows anything about war realizes that these claims are all crap created by Russia.
Attackers don’t always lose more people than defenders, particularly not if the attackers have far greater fire power and air superiority.
Spot on. You could also mention Mossad the Israeli intelligence service. They are pro Ukraine and anti Russian so you are getting fairly accurate figures from them on casualties and losses of equipment e.g. 154000 Ukrainain soldiers killed so far. So the New Atlas figures for example can be crosschecked with Mossad.
No one estimates that. 100,0000 total Ukrainian military casualties has been publicized. Maybe 150,000 TOTAL casualties if you include civilians. But only a small portion of that is KIA.
No one estimates that. 100,0000 total Ukrainian military casualties has been publicized. Maybe 150,000 TOTAL casualties if you include civilians. But only a small portion of that is KIA.
The author of this dispatch has written multiple articles emphasizing Evil Empire Russian badness and Ukrainian righteousness…Russian military weakness and Ukraine’s unrelenting battlefield strength. I’m just saying that there are other easily accessed points of view that aren’t ideological in bent, but rather are objective takes on Russian/Ukraine military stratagem, available fire power, troop strength and ongoing conscription, limitations for boots-on-the-ground being deployed by NATO and/or the United States (other than mercenaries and embedded Special Forces), the rapid depletion of Ukrainian munitions (which Zelensky is incessantly confirming), the dearth of readily available inventories of foreign tanks and rockets, the unavailability of a NO FLY ZONE over Ukraine, the lack of Ukrainian air support from NATO, the waning of support by both European and American citizenry towards the Ukraine war…etc.
Well said in both posts.
In a nutshell “It’s all over bar the shouting”.
Well said in both posts.
In a nutshell “It’s all over bar the shouting”.
That’s because Wagner casualties are not counted because they’re not Russian soldiers but private contractors.
Same for USA & UK in Iraq. Plus ça change……..
Same for USA & UK in Iraq. Plus ça change……..
No need to explain Abe … Let people just listen to Soldier X in interview with Willy (Australian guy) If you do not believe what Scott and McGregor say then listen to guy who is training Ukrainian forces and was working in Bakhmut. Enjoy… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKZpYglZrW4&t=0s
Amazing link – I have to go but will finish it later – the fascinating part is the Russian drone superority as they have a top DJI Team of Chinese Drone makers right there with the Russians keeping the system and getting it to be more effective – which the Aus guy who was with the Ukrainians calls very worrying.
So as this Aus SF was embedded with Ukrainians to train them – China has its Chinese CCP tech guys embedded with Russians to train and to enable their tech dominance! Also he says Russians are amazing at tracking every phone – and so on, so they really have much better intelligence of the battle field in many ways.
That Biden chose to drive Russia into Chinese Arms is insane.
Amazing link – I have to go but will finish it later – the fascinating part is the Russian drone superority as they have a top DJI Team of Chinese Drone makers right there with the Russians keeping the system and getting it to be more effective – which the Aus guy who was with the Ukrainians calls very worrying.
So as this Aus SF was embedded with Ukrainians to train them – China has its Chinese CCP tech guys embedded with Russians to train and to enable their tech dominance! Also he says Russians are amazing at tracking every phone – and so on, so they really have much better intelligence of the battle field in many ways.
That Biden chose to drive Russia into Chinese Arms is insane.
Patently absurd. Human waves attacks against fortified position are inflicting more casualties than they are taking? Can’t happen.
The ratio is probably far closer to 10:1 Russian to Ukrainian casualties in Bakhmut. Credible stimates for the whole war are around 2:1; 200,000 Russians vs 100,000 Ukrainians. Ukraine has suffered far fewer dead though, b/c they actually care above their soldiers and provide medical care.
Where did you get that info. It is UA who are forced into manoeuvre warfare and w
Wagner are CQB specialists. I don’t see it.
Where did you get that info. It is UA who are forced into manoeuvre warfare and w
Wagner are CQB specialists. I don’t see it.
Those sources are hardly unbiased and are still American. Try any foreign channel, choose Al-Jazeera if you like.
“Unbiased sources” – by what metric? They’ve been reporting Russian victory in Bakhmut for weeks now, yet it grinds on.
Ah, yes, the Scott Ritter that supports ethnic cleansing of Ukraine.
Scott Ritter the convicted sex offender.
THAT Scott Ritter…
But the referenced garbage sites don’t mention that attackers always lose more people than defenders.
Spot on. You could also mention Mossad the Israeli intelligence service. They are pro Ukraine and anti Russian so you are getting fairly accurate figures from them on casualties and losses of equipment e.g. 154000 Ukrainain soldiers killed so far. So the New Atlas figures for example can be crosschecked with Mossad.
The author of this dispatch has written multiple articles emphasizing Evil Empire Russian badness and Ukrainian righteousness…Russian military weakness and Ukraine’s unrelenting battlefield strength. I’m just saying that there are other easily accessed points of view that aren’t ideological in bent, but rather are objective takes on Russian/Ukraine military stratagem, available fire power, troop strength and ongoing conscription, limitations for boots-on-the-ground being deployed by NATO and/or the United States (other than mercenaries and embedded Special Forces), the rapid depletion of Ukrainian munitions (which Zelensky is incessantly confirming), the dearth of readily available inventories of foreign tanks and rockets, the unavailability of a NO FLY ZONE over Ukraine, the lack of Ukrainian air support from NATO, the waning of support by both European and American citizenry towards the Ukraine war…etc.
That’s because Wagner casualties are not counted because they’re not Russian soldiers but private contractors.
No need to explain Abe … Let people just listen to Soldier X in interview with Willy (Australian guy) If you do not believe what Scott and McGregor say then listen to guy who is training Ukrainian forces and was working in Bakhmut. Enjoy… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKZpYglZrW4&t=0s
Patently absurd. Human waves attacks against fortified position are inflicting more casualties than they are taking? Can’t happen.
The ratio is probably far closer to 10:1 Russian to Ukrainian casualties in Bakhmut. Credible stimates for the whole war are around 2:1; 200,000 Russians vs 100,000 Ukrainians. Ukraine has suffered far fewer dead though, b/c they actually care above their soldiers and provide medical care.
Those sources are hardly unbiased and are still American. Try any foreign channel, choose Al-Jazeera if you like.
I agree – total propagandising. I wnted to vote positively on this comment but it’s clearly being manipulated and would not accept. I was able to downvote fine but would not enable removing it.
Tell us of the poor young men drafted to this, getting legs blown off – and WHY. Not some disgusting, professional, foreign Mercenaries.
That is a concern….. So easy for algorithms to manipulate opinion.
My view – America is responsible for a lot of problems.
Tell us of the poor young men drafted to this, getting legs blown off – and WHY. Not some disgusting, professional, foreign Mercenaries.
That is a concern….. So easy for algorithms to manipulate opinion.
My view – America is responsible for a lot of problems.
Try reading the article again.
Significant losses says the article.Read it properly
That must have been edited out since you read the article.
Unbiased military sources estimate that 8-10 Ukrainian soldiers are dying for every Russian soldier. Former U.S. Marine Scott Ritter, former U.S. Marine Tony Cartalucci (who hosts The New Atlas on YouTube) and retired U.S. Army colonel (and former tank commander) Douglas Mcgregor provide invaluable insight (YouTube) into what’s actually happening on the Ukrainian battlefield, and what the end game will be. Consensus: Ukraine loses…and the total death count will be unimaginable. But, The U.S. Military Industrial Complex will win again, as it always does. It seems that the South Korean, Polish, Chinese, Czech, Iranian, Turkish and Russian military industrial manufacturers are also having a sales bonanza as weaponry is depleted in Ukraine and Russia, and an inexhaustible amount of money is available to buy replacement munitions.
” War is hugely profitable. It creates so much money because it’s so easy to spend money very fast. There are huge fortunes to be made. So there is always an encouragement to promote war and keep it going, to make sure that we identify people who are ‘others’ whom we can legitimately make war upon. ” Roger Waters
YouTube/Rumble shows Redacted, Kim Iverson, The Grayzone, Alex Christoforou, Judge Napolitano, and The Duran all provide none Mainstream Media assessments of the Ukraine proxy war…which is unabashedly being hosted by the U.S. and NATO.
I agree – total propagandising. I wnted to vote positively on this comment but it’s clearly being manipulated and would not accept. I was able to downvote fine but would not enable removing it.
Amazing piece of propaganda, Russians are dying by the thousand in Bakhmut, but no Ukrainian ever dies
The Russian army can’t shoot straight and the Ukrainian army never misses
“How much evidence is required before it is clear that Western Civilization is empty of integrity, judgment, reason, morality, empathy, compassion, self-awareness, truth, empty of everything that Western Civilization once respected?
All that is left of the West is insouciance and unrestrained evil.”
~Paul Craig Roberts, former Undersecretrary Of Treasury, Reagan Administration
Still 1000% better than Russia or China.
Still 1000% better than Russia or China.
“How much evidence is required before it is clear that Western Civilization is empty of integrity, judgment, reason, morality, empathy, compassion, self-awareness, truth, empty of everything that Western Civilization once respected?
All that is left of the West is insouciance and unrestrained evil.”
~Paul Craig Roberts, former Undersecretrary Of Treasury, Reagan Administration
It’s shameful. I had 4 comments on this article removed… or should I say censored. If you don’t emphatically profess a belief that the Ukrainian military, supported by the U.S. and NATO, is going to outright win a war against Russia, with the 5th largest army in the world, the world’s largest nuclear arsenal, the 3rd largest air force in the world, and state-of-the-art weapons of mass destruction available to it…then UnHerd doesn’t want to hear from you. Like I said, ” Shameful “.
Today Ukraine announced that its lowered the age of conscription, that’s forced service in the Ukraine military, to 16 years old…16. They’re already recruiting men up to 60 years old to fight…60 years old. Sounds like desperation…not a formula for victory.
It’s shameful. I had 4 comments on this article removed… or should I say censored. If you don’t emphatically profess a belief that the Ukrainian military, supported by the U.S. and NATO, is going to outright win a war against Russia, with the 5th largest army in the world, the world’s largest nuclear arsenal, the 3rd largest air force in the world, and state-of-the-art weapons of mass destruction available to it…then UnHerd doesn’t want to hear from you. Like I said, ” Shameful “.
Today Ukraine announced that its lowered the age of conscription, that’s forced service in the Ukraine military, to 16 years old…16. They’re already recruiting men up to 60 years old to fight…60 years old. Sounds like desperation…not a formula for victory.
Patrikaros ,superficial article, could be Sky news simply Ukrainian pufff piece.
The guy is on the front lines. Try to show some respect.
Manipulation of votes again! Unhinged – soon to be unread!
They delete anything I write on Ukraine – Unherd is total agenda plus a bit of controlled opposition to pretend they are not part of the global lies and misinformation.
Come on Unherd – just bann me instead of your shadow banning – PUSS**S!
Just a test to see if pussies gets through. I tried it with “pray” the other day and it worked.
The spelled-out version of “b.s.” was getting through until lately but it looks like they’ve put a stop to that.
The spelled-out version of “b.s.” was getting through until lately but it looks like they’ve put a stop to that.
Just a test to see if pussies gets through. I tried it with “pray” the other day and it worked.
They delete anything I write on Ukraine – Unherd is total agenda plus a bit of controlled opposition to pretend they are not part of the global lies and misinformation.
Come on Unherd – just bann me instead of your shadow banning – PUSS**S!
What are you expecting?
Its seems a pretty reasonable human interest account of life on the front line in a war zone.
To get a balanced view would require a reporter to go to the front line with Russian troops – and certainly the Russian view would add perspective – but its not particularly practical. You’d have to leave that to another journalist and then everyone would be piling in with comments about Russian propaganda.
I don’t see what there is to complain about – unless it doesn’t meet some expectation you have that was not the intent of the author.
The guy is on the front lines. Try to show some respect.
Manipulation of votes again! Unhinged – soon to be unread!
What are you expecting?
Its seems a pretty reasonable human interest account of life on the front line in a war zone.
To get a balanced view would require a reporter to go to the front line with Russian troops – and certainly the Russian view would add perspective – but its not particularly practical. You’d have to leave that to another journalist and then everyone would be piling in with comments about Russian propaganda.
I don’t see what there is to complain about – unless it doesn’t meet some expectation you have that was not the intent of the author.
Patrikaros ,superficial article, could be Sky news simply Ukrainian pufff piece.
“Russian troops are dying in their thousands here — and possibly for nothing.”
And there you wiped out any credibility or respect for yourself.
Yes, we know Russians bad, Ukrainians good, the ones who destroyed Iraq and Libya for fun even better and noble.
But there is a good reason Russian troops are dying to capture Bakhmut. It is the key linchpin of the Ukrainian defenses in the entire region, a major transport and logistics hub.
And the fact that, after massive casualties for the Ukrainian side, and months of feeding their troops into a meat grinder, Bakhmut is suddenly of “limited operational value” says it all.
Surrounded on three sides, outgunned by Russian artillery.
And the attack is primarily by Wagner. Who, incidentally, are far better equipped and trained than the “regular” Ukrainian troops, as a western mercenary let slip.
And while Ukraine loses Bakhmut to a bunch of ex convicts, the 300,000 strong fresh Russian reserves are still uncommitted.
Incidentally, for all the talk of drones dropping grenades and sex toys, Napoleon’s maxim still holds true: God is on the side that has the most artillery.
And also, disparaging Russian authors doesn’t quite prove your Ukrainian chums (or their western allies) to be the cultured lot that they think they are.
What’s your favorite thing about Putin: His shirtless equestrian poses or megalomaniacal water-testing invasions?
My favourite thing?
He does what his people want and what’s best for his nation.
If Putin was the leader of Britain,there wouldn’t be a lot of opposition left, and government critics would mysteriously die with the same frequency as those who prove inconvenient to the Clinton’s.
And I am happy we have our bumbling idiots instead of what’s effectively a dictatorship.
But – Putin would also make sure illegal immigration stops, Brexit gets done, and Britain does what’s is in British interests.
On the other hand, if UK conservatives were in charge of Russia, they would happily leave office once the electorate gets disgusted- but they would merrily allow NATO to expand to Russian borders, let US corporates asset strip Russian assets and let the woke take over Russia.
You could hardly have laid your abject Putin fandom, and support for bloody authoritiarianism in general, more bare. Points for candor. I hope you’re joking a little but I detect no subtlety and scarcely any humor in your posts.
Of course there wouldn’t be many outspoken opponents left if your hero became the dictator of Britain too: most who remained alive and free would be silent–or else–something you celebrate and at the same to attempt to minimize by pretending that the Clintons have a list of Politskayas, Yevloyevs, and Navalnys, plus so many nameless victims, that rival Putin’s–or even any demonstrable “personal enemies murdered and imprisoned list” that doesn’t involve you linking us to some blogpost rant about Vince Foster or whatever.
Putin is much more in the model of Stalin or Napoleon– one of whom you openly admire, but probably Stalin too–than Churchill or Victoria, whose warlike and imperial sympathies were balanced by ideals and a comparatively big human hearts in addition to colossal nerve (or big brass stones).
..”Churchill or Victoria, whose warlike and imperial sympathies were balanced by ideals and a comparatively big human hearts”.. What? What? Tell that to the concentration camp victims in South Africa, the murdered Kenyans and the famine victims in Ireland and India! Delusion is wonderful apparently!
Short of parroting your views, it’s almost impossible to have a civil exchange with you man. You just devolve into insult and abuse so readily, yet demand an apology from me? Wow, dude.
Yes I think Victoria and Churchill had bigger hearts and better intentions than Stalin or Napoleon. Now, I can picture a legitimate disagreement with my suspiciously mainstream opinion. But my assertion is delusional?
I didn’t say they were saints.
Short of parroting your views, it’s almost impossible to have a civil exchange with you man. You just devolve into insult and abuse so readily, yet demand an apology from me? Wow, dude.
Yes I think Victoria and Churchill had bigger hearts and better intentions than Stalin or Napoleon. Now, I can picture a legitimate disagreement with my suspiciously mainstream opinion. But my assertion is delusional?
I didn’t say they were saints.
..”Churchill or Victoria, whose warlike and imperial sympathies were balanced by ideals and a comparatively big human hearts”.. What? What? Tell that to the concentration camp victims in South Africa, the murdered Kenyans and the famine victims in Ireland and India! Delusion is wonderful apparently!
Excellent and true, your’e wasting your breath though with most of this lot, they are all MSM readers…. sad really.
You could hardly have laid your abject Putin fandom, and support for bloody authoritiarianism in general, more bare. Points for candor. I hope you’re joking a little but I detect no subtlety and scarcely any humor in your posts.
Of course there wouldn’t be many outspoken opponents left if your hero became the dictator of Britain too: most who remained alive and free would be silent–or else–something you celebrate and at the same to attempt to minimize by pretending that the Clintons have a list of Politskayas, Yevloyevs, and Navalnys, plus so many nameless victims, that rival Putin’s–or even any demonstrable “personal enemies murdered and imprisoned list” that doesn’t involve you linking us to some blogpost rant about Vince Foster or whatever.
Putin is much more in the model of Stalin or Napoleon– one of whom you openly admire, but probably Stalin too–than Churchill or Victoria, whose warlike and imperial sympathies were balanced by ideals and a comparatively big human hearts in addition to colossal nerve (or big brass stones).
Excellent and true, your’e wasting your breath though with most of this lot, they are all MSM readers…. sad really.
My favourite thing?
He does what his people want and what’s best for his nation.
If Putin was the leader of Britain,there wouldn’t be a lot of opposition left, and government critics would mysteriously die with the same frequency as those who prove inconvenient to the Clinton’s.
And I am happy we have our bumbling idiots instead of what’s effectively a dictatorship.
But – Putin would also make sure illegal immigration stops, Brexit gets done, and Britain does what’s is in British interests.
On the other hand, if UK conservatives were in charge of Russia, they would happily leave office once the electorate gets disgusted- but they would merrily allow NATO to expand to Russian borders, let US corporates asset strip Russian assets and let the woke take over Russia.
Thanks for countering the simplemindedness of “Ukrainians good, Russians bad” with your own black-and-white bumper sticker: “Russians strong and right. Ukrainians weak and wrong”.
Who’s you favorite narcisissistic authoritarian: Putin or Orbán?
I don’t think the woman quoted was disparaging Dostoevsky directly but saying that many among the Russian-identified Ukraine-border crowd could barely speak Russian themselves, let alone read the original text of the classics. But she certainly isn’t sophisticated enough to see the benefit of her own culture’s eradication or absorption in the Russian leviathan.
Ah, Napoleon: History’s great, non-cautionary tale of a non-hubristic leader. A bit like Putin, in his fever dreams.
Napoleon, for all his flaws, was probably the greatest military general and thinker of all time.
His downfall was attacking Russia. Don’t think the same would apply for Putin.
And unlike what the movies tell you, the biggest killer of human beings in modern battlefields has always been artillery. Not tanks, infantry, sexy planes dropping fancy bombs, mines, drones…that big 5 or 6 inch ish howitzer you never even see.
Surely charismatic and a great military tactician to a point, but also power-mad and bloodthirsty, like Alexander the not-so-Great and a bit like Putin the Terrible when he shows his true colors and can remember to smile like a believable version of a humane person (to add a little charisma to the ruthless KGB ice-stare). If you were so convinced that Russia and the expansionist ambitions of Putin the First would prevail you might be less wildly insistent about it. Who are you trying to convince?
Sorry, that’s just clueless Russian doctrine. That only counts in static wars.
Tanks make the breakthroughs, then surround whole armies.
Might want to bone up on the Falaise Pocket and the Allied victories in 1944-5.
Surely charismatic and a great military tactician to a point, but also power-mad and bloodthirsty, like Alexander the not-so-Great and a bit like Putin the Terrible when he shows his true colors and can remember to smile like a believable version of a humane person (to add a little charisma to the ruthless KGB ice-stare). If you were so convinced that Russia and the expansionist ambitions of Putin the First would prevail you might be less wildly insistent about it. Who are you trying to convince?
Sorry, that’s just clueless Russian doctrine. That only counts in static wars.
Tanks make the breakthroughs, then surround whole armies.
Might want to bone up on the Falaise Pocket and the Allied victories in 1944-5.
Napoleon, for all his flaws, was probably the greatest military general and thinker of all time.
His downfall was attacking Russia. Don’t think the same would apply for Putin.
And unlike what the movies tell you, the biggest killer of human beings in modern battlefields has always been artillery. Not tanks, infantry, sexy planes dropping fancy bombs, mines, drones…that big 5 or 6 inch ish howitzer you never even see.
Vagner was attacking Soledar, not Bakhmut,
And half the 300,000 are already in the trenches and attacking Bakhmut, Vuhledar, Kreminna, etc.
Which was idiocy. They should have stayed on the defence and dug enough defences to stop the Leopards.
Now they will be as short of manpower as they were prior to the Kharkov-Kherson Ukrainian offensives.
Those poor Russians sucks…
I thought it was the HIMARs that was going to make the big difference and win the war, so now its the Leopards
The obvious question is what happened to the tanks the Ukraine started the war with
They still have most.
But they are Russian. Ergo substandard.
The western tanks give anyone the edge.
Ask the Iraqis.
Probably sold on to every sick regime via the dark web..
They still have most.
But they are Russian. Ergo substandard.
The western tanks give anyone the edge.
Ask the Iraqis.
Probably sold on to every sick regime via the dark web..
I thought it was the HIMARs that was going to make the big difference and win the war, so now its the Leopards
The obvious question is what happened to the tanks the Ukraine started the war with
What’s your favorite thing about Putin: His shirtless equestrian poses or megalomaniacal water-testing invasions?
Thanks for countering the simplemindedness of “Ukrainians good, Russians bad” with your own black-and-white bumper sticker: “Russians strong and right. Ukrainians weak and wrong”.
Who’s you favorite narcisissistic authoritarian: Putin or Orbán?
I don’t think the woman quoted was disparaging Dostoevsky directly but saying that many among the Russian-identified Ukraine-border crowd could barely speak Russian themselves, let alone read the original text of the classics. But she certainly isn’t sophisticated enough to see the benefit of her own culture’s eradication or absorption in the Russian leviathan.
Ah, Napoleon: History’s great, non-cautionary tale of a non-hubristic leader. A bit like Putin, in his fever dreams.
Vagner was attacking Soledar, not Bakhmut,
And half the 300,000 are already in the trenches and attacking Bakhmut, Vuhledar, Kreminna, etc.
Which was idiocy. They should have stayed on the defence and dug enough defences to stop the Leopards.
Now they will be as short of manpower as they were prior to the Kharkov-Kherson Ukrainian offensives.
Those poor Russians sucks…
“Russian troops are dying in their thousands here — and possibly for nothing.”
And there you wiped out any credibility or respect for yourself.
Yes, we know Russians bad, Ukrainians good, the ones who destroyed Iraq and Libya for fun even better and noble.
But there is a good reason Russian troops are dying to capture Bakhmut. It is the key linchpin of the Ukrainian defenses in the entire region, a major transport and logistics hub.
And the fact that, after massive casualties for the Ukrainian side, and months of feeding their troops into a meat grinder, Bakhmut is suddenly of “limited operational value” says it all.
Surrounded on three sides, outgunned by Russian artillery.
And the attack is primarily by Wagner. Who, incidentally, are far better equipped and trained than the “regular” Ukrainian troops, as a western mercenary let slip.
And while Ukraine loses Bakhmut to a bunch of ex convicts, the 300,000 strong fresh Russian reserves are still uncommitted.
Incidentally, for all the talk of drones dropping grenades and sex toys, Napoleon’s maxim still holds true: God is on the side that has the most artillery.
And also, disparaging Russian authors doesn’t quite prove your Ukrainian chums (or their western allies) to be the cultured lot that they think they are.
”Ivan is 34 and has been fighting since the war began in 2014. His unit is Special Forces, he says. He can’t give me details about their operations,”
Who has he been fighting? What? Why? Where? When? and How…Because that is pretty wild stuff.
Is this News? Drones dropping sex toys to shame the enemy? Meat Waves? Printed plastic sort of shuttlecocks they fill with explosive and drop from toy drones… When USA has sent $100,000,000,000 in aid, weapons, and tech-support? A $3000 drone with a grenade taking out a tank? A pistol snapped empty to show how he would talk to Putin, Chechen professional Mercenaries? Praying in passing at a bombed out mosque with picture?.
This is not news but an Essay, a character sketch, a meaningless description of – What? I found it nightmare like – like a bad trip – synthetic Waiting for Godot stuff, but it taught me nothing of the war – definitely nothing of the fighting, Not the young conscript’s spirit, Why they fight, the story of what this should be about – actual young men and why they are there – nothing of the poor boys conscripted and on the lines on each side getting their legs blown off…just older mercenaries acting out some character ‘Full Metal Jacket’ sketches…
I just do not get Unherd’s coverage. How about news, numbers, I just do not understand this ‘Live from the Fox-hole with the wild men of Bakmut’ chat.
If this is representative of the war it is truly twisted….
”The situation is difficult, he admits, but controlled. The Ukrainians have suffered significant losses, as have the enemy,”
But what about this? This is the news… but just in passing is thrown out there and then on to the boiled eggs and pancakes and aimless talk in the bunker with a sleeping on a door on the floor and an old guy walking and the guitar and song:
”Bakhmut Bakhmut, the enemy has come leaving ruin
But we are all waiting…
for a new dawn in Ukraine.”
New Dawn? For Who? And why destroy it first? Why? What is this about? What did they think the Russians would have done if they just signed a treaty losing Donbas, making Crimea part of Russia – promising no NATO or EU – and the corrupt government run off or shot and new puppets put in their place by Putin – How is this worth all this??????? How cannot they not be discussing the alternatives? If I was a young man there I would be talking of all the issues – WHY was I to die? Why? Was this really worth it? How to take care of wife, children, parents? But to die in this nightmare – WHY? WHY does not anyone say what this is about?
The Russians did not come in shooting – just coming in to replace the Oligarchs and the Western leaning leaders – why would any young conscript be getting killed and maimed to protect Zalenski and his fellow Oligarchs? As far as I can see that is all Russia was really after – Out with the Oligarchs owned by Biden, new ones owned by Putin In – is that really worth destroying a Nation and its people over?
As far as I can tell this horror show is only about what flag flies over the Donbas, and if Ukraine joins the EU and NATO, and which corrupt and criminal Oligarchs get to rob the country. From what I read this is all Biden, all of it, and his stooge Boris – no wonder all Europe but for Poland is getting against this, wanting to pull out, suffering Buyers Remorse – Wanting PEACE, wanting cheap energy to flow, natural resources to feed their closed industry, stop borrowing money they do not have to fund this horror show, stop the refugees, death, destruction, PSD, children lost education, lost childhood, lost mental health…global famine coming… just stop this horror, PEACE NOW! they are realizing….
I would think a professional mercenary from another nation and religion and culture would not be who I was relying on for the story!
So I’m guessing by this rant that the Ukrainians are wrong to try and repel a violent invader? That they should simply allow the Russians to turn their nation into a vassal state?
Why then in your previous incarnations on this site have you on numerous times used the quote “Give me liberty or death” as you clearly don’t believe in it?
At least the original article was readable and not an incoherent rant.
Try being a little more concise and engaging and people might read your comment in full.
I’d read Mr Bjorns comments over yours all day. I don’t want more concise thank you.
And I don’t read his comments as I can’t be bothered wading through it. His comments are exclusively aimed at his own little fan club of which you’re clearly a member. Pointless in the discursive forum that makes Unherd comments so interesting.
Sometimes I am a fan, sometimes I’m not. Mr Bjorn is at least interesting and alternative. He’s made many more interesting points than you ever have, but then if you don’t read him I don’t know how you can pass judgement?
You might want to consider that for some people this isn’t about a fan club or being popular. If that’s what your here for, well, what can I say. So much you misunderstand about fringe media.
Have you got an interesting comment to make yourself? Or is that the sum of your contribution today?
Be careful Ms Emery, Mr Stewart can become rather excitable very quickly indeed.
Mr Stanhope! I’m ready for it 🙂 it’s all got very exciting down here again.
At least you keep it concise!
Mr Stanhope! I’m ready for it 🙂 it’s all got very exciting down here again.
At least you keep it concise!
Be careful Ms Emery, Mr Stewart can become rather excitable very quickly indeed.
Sometimes I am a fan, sometimes I’m not. Mr Bjorn is at least interesting and alternative. He’s made many more interesting points than you ever have, but then if you don’t read him I don’t know how you can pass judgement?
You might want to consider that for some people this isn’t about a fan club or being popular. If that’s what your here for, well, what can I say. So much you misunderstand about fringe media.
Have you got an interesting comment to make yourself? Or is that the sum of your contribution today?
And I don’t read his comments as I can’t be bothered wading through it. His comments are exclusively aimed at his own little fan club of which you’re clearly a member. Pointless in the discursive forum that makes Unherd comments so interesting.
I’d read Mr Bjorns comments over yours all day. I don’t want more concise thank you.
Thank God for this impassioned, humane, deep, insightful, sane response, which helped me understand my unease reading this post. The fact that it’s now in negative territory according to the vote tally (-3 ???!) I believe says something/much about rampant jingoism this orchestrated war has whipped up.
I agree with you, some of these people will never listen to another opinion. War is great for them until they experience it. They think it is about which side you are on, good and evil, no nuance.
I agree with you, some of these people will never listen to another opinion. War is great for them until they experience it. They think it is about which side you are on, good and evil, no nuance.
Why the increasingly frequent name changes? Do you keep getting thrown off?
Almost as delusional as Putin.
And after Putin come Russia’s REAL Psychotics.
No orcs today? No insults for both the Ukrainians and Russians today? You’re not really on your game are you?
Awww, kick a person when he’s down!
Awww, kick a person when he’s down!
No orcs today? No insults for both the Ukrainians and Russians today? You’re not really on your game are you?
So I’m guessing by this rant that the Ukrainians are wrong to try and repel a violent invader? That they should simply allow the Russians to turn their nation into a vassal state?
Why then in your previous incarnations on this site have you on numerous times used the quote “Give me liberty or death” as you clearly don’t believe in it?
At least the original article was readable and not an incoherent rant.
Try being a little more concise and engaging and people might read your comment in full.
Thank God for this impassioned, humane, deep, insightful, sane response, which helped me understand my unease reading this post. The fact that it’s now in negative territory according to the vote tally (-3 ???!) I believe says something/much about rampant jingoism this orchestrated war has whipped up.
Why the increasingly frequent name changes? Do you keep getting thrown off?
Almost as delusional as Putin.
And after Putin come Russia’s REAL Psychotics.
”Ivan is 34 and has been fighting since the war began in 2014. His unit is Special Forces, he says. He can’t give me details about their operations,”
Who has he been fighting? What? Why? Where? When? and How…Because that is pretty wild stuff.
Is this News? Drones dropping sex toys to shame the enemy? Meat Waves? Printed plastic sort of shuttlecocks they fill with explosive and drop from toy drones… When USA has sent $100,000,000,000 in aid, weapons, and tech-support? A $3000 drone with a grenade taking out a tank? A pistol snapped empty to show how he would talk to Putin, Chechen professional Mercenaries? Praying in passing at a bombed out mosque with picture?.
This is not news but an Essay, a character sketch, a meaningless description of – What? I found it nightmare like – like a bad trip – synthetic Waiting for Godot stuff, but it taught me nothing of the war – definitely nothing of the fighting, Not the young conscript’s spirit, Why they fight, the story of what this should be about – actual young men and why they are there – nothing of the poor boys conscripted and on the lines on each side getting their legs blown off…just older mercenaries acting out some character ‘Full Metal Jacket’ sketches…
I just do not get Unherd’s coverage. How about news, numbers, I just do not understand this ‘Live from the Fox-hole with the wild men of Bakmut’ chat.
If this is representative of the war it is truly twisted….
”The situation is difficult, he admits, but controlled. The Ukrainians have suffered significant losses, as have the enemy,”
But what about this? This is the news… but just in passing is thrown out there and then on to the boiled eggs and pancakes and aimless talk in the bunker with a sleeping on a door on the floor and an old guy walking and the guitar and song:
”Bakhmut Bakhmut, the enemy has come leaving ruin
But we are all waiting…
for a new dawn in Ukraine.”
New Dawn? For Who? And why destroy it first? Why? What is this about? What did they think the Russians would have done if they just signed a treaty losing Donbas, making Crimea part of Russia – promising no NATO or EU – and the corrupt government run off or shot and new puppets put in their place by Putin – How is this worth all this??????? How cannot they not be discussing the alternatives? If I was a young man there I would be talking of all the issues – WHY was I to die? Why? Was this really worth it? How to take care of wife, children, parents? But to die in this nightmare – WHY? WHY does not anyone say what this is about?
The Russians did not come in shooting – just coming in to replace the Oligarchs and the Western leaning leaders – why would any young conscript be getting killed and maimed to protect Zalenski and his fellow Oligarchs? As far as I can see that is all Russia was really after – Out with the Oligarchs owned by Biden, new ones owned by Putin In – is that really worth destroying a Nation and its people over?
As far as I can tell this horror show is only about what flag flies over the Donbas, and if Ukraine joins the EU and NATO, and which corrupt and criminal Oligarchs get to rob the country. From what I read this is all Biden, all of it, and his stooge Boris – no wonder all Europe but for Poland is getting against this, wanting to pull out, suffering Buyers Remorse – Wanting PEACE, wanting cheap energy to flow, natural resources to feed their closed industry, stop borrowing money they do not have to fund this horror show, stop the refugees, death, destruction, PSD, children lost education, lost childhood, lost mental health…global famine coming… just stop this horror, PEACE NOW! they are realizing….
I would think a professional mercenary from another nation and religion and culture would not be who I was relying on for the story!