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Liz Truss still haunts the Tories She carried a Molotov cocktail into No. 10 — but others lit the fuse

"In Liz We Trust" (Hollie Adams/Bloomberg via Getty Images

"In Liz We Trust" (Hollie Adams/Bloomberg via Getty Images


January 4, 2023   6 mins

If you are Conservative-curious, or simply have a taste for the absurd, there is a good chance that your Christmas stocking included the recent Liz Truss biography, Out of the Blue. Announced in late September, the book was meant to chronicle the new Prime Minister’s “astonishing rise to power” and “plans for Britain’s future”. By the time it was published, barely two months later, it had become an obituary to her “rapid fall” and “self-implosion“. Its authors, Harry Cole and James Heale, found themselves competing for custom with an alternative volume, entitled Liz Truss: Her Greatest Accomplishments as Prime Minister. It consisted of an entirely blank notepad.

The Truss premiership crowned perhaps the most chaotic year in Conservative history: a year of three Prime Ministers, four Chancellors of the Exchequer, three Home Secretaries, four Health Secretaries and five Education Secretaries. Ministers cascaded through government like some dystopian vision of the Twelve Days of Christmas. That some of them were the same people, winking in and out of office like a faulty dash light, added to the sense of drawing-room farce. It was the year of Partygate, Pinchergate and Tractorporn, in which one prime minister was “ambushed by a cake” and another mugged by the financial markets; a year in which, as a Victorian Home Secretary lamented, “the crisis of one day is obliterated by the catastrophe of the next”.

Like a former government advisor, furtively editing his Wikipedia page, it would be understandable if Conservatives preferred simply to erase 2022 from the historical record. Yet if the Conservative Party is to dig itself out of the hole in which it is currently floundering, it needs a better understanding of the mistakes that landed it there. In particular, it needs to recognise that the Truss debacle was not some aberration from the party’s recent history, but the culmination of its most destructive tendencies.

Truss did not fall into No. 10 from a spaceship, like some twin-set Mr Bean. She won the leadership because she best expressed what Conservatism has become. The attributes that broke her premiership were also those that carried her into power, making her the favoured candidate of the party membership, the Right-wing think-tanks that supplied so much of her programme, and what the political scientist Tim Bale calls “the party in the press”: the network of sympathetic newspapers that works to maintain the party in office. Sold as the heir to Margaret Thatcher, Truss was to prove more Tin Lizzie than Iron Lady; but her ill-fated premiership was more a symptom of her party’s problems than their cause.

Truss was cheered into office by the party’s most loyal newspapers, which trashed her critics, lauded her tax cuts and only turned on her when it became obvious she could not survive. Headlines proclaimed “In Liz We Trust”. “Cometh the Hour, Cometh the Woman”; and “Liz Puts Her Foot on the Gas”. The reaction to the mini-budget was equally effusive. “At Last”, gushed the Daily Mail, “a True Tory Budget”. A Daily Telegraph front page called it “the best Budget I have ever heard a British Chancellor deliver”. For the Express, part of Truss’s allure was “her long involvement with centre-right think tanks”. Responding to the mini-budget, a representative of the Centre for Policy Studies told the IEA podcast that it as “exactly what we would have hoped for”. The Taxpayers’ Alliance called it “the most taxpayer-friendly budget in recent memory”.

Newspapers and think-tanks could provide the mood music, but only MPs and party members could put Truss in No. 10. Her comments on the campaign trail may have alarmed the commentariat — whether dismissing the First Minister of Scotland as an “attention-seeker” to be “ignored”, or refusing to say whether the President of France was “a friend or foe” — but they drew cheers from the party audiences to whom they were delivered. As an aide to the Truss campaign told her biographers, “we went straight for the membership and gave them what they wanted to hear”.

Add in the endorsement of figures such as Daniel Hannan, David Frost, Sajid Javid and Ben Wallace, or the money that cascaded in from party donors, and the Truss premiership begins to look less like the personal failure of a flawed individual, and more like a systemic disaster for which the party bears collective responsibility. The Conservative Party turned to Liz Truss, not in some temporary spasm of irrationality, but because she embraced the ideas and courted the institutions that had become dominant in its make-up. The forces that destroyed her premiership were those that secured it for her in the first place.

Take, for example, Truss’s enthusiasm for “moving fast and breaking things”. Not so long ago, a politician who boasted of being the “disruptor in chief” — who told a journalist that “I embrace the chaos. I’m a thrill-seeker” — might have been thought an unlikely candidate for a “Conservative” party. Her contempt for “orthodoxy” might have puzzled a party that prized tradition, while her conviction that sheer willpower could bulldoze all difficulties would have sat uneasily with a Burkean sense of human fallibility, girding its suspicion of grand visions for change.

Yet these were exactly the attributes that had enthused Truss’s supporters. For her cheerleaders in the media, the case for Truss was precisely that “she gets the need for radical change“; that she was an enthusiast for “elbowing to one side the Treasury’s fiscal conservatism“; that she persistently “knocked aside her critics” and was “ready to take on all opponents”. For the Daily Mail, it was Truss’s “boosterism” that “puts her in the driving seat”. Ignoring civil servants, economists and forecasters came naturally to a party that, in Michael Gove’s famous words, had decided years earlier that “people in this country have had enough of experts”. Why consult the Office for Budget Responsibility, when it had been dismissed by Conservative columnists as “a waste of money” and a “vehicle for establishment groupthink”?

A party that had spent years urging its supporters to “believe in Brexit”; that decried warning voices as “doomsters” and “gloomsters”, guilty of “talking down Britain”; and that blamed setbacks on “saboteurs” and “enemies of the people”, could not have been surprised at a leader who embraced boosterish economics, ignored warning voices and blamed setbacks on a mythical “anti-growth coalition”. Having burned out Remainers and moderates under Johnson, the party could hardly complain when Sunak supporters were informed that “their careers are over. If you’re on the stage you’re in a grave”.

The danger for the Conservative Party is that it turns to one of two comforting myths to explain the Truss debacle. One loads the blame entirely onto Truss, insisting that “the notes were right. It’s just that they were in the wrong order”. The same think-tanks who had hailed Truss’s rise to power now likened her to a “hubristic, or crazy, or incompetent” chef, who had bungled their “perfect and delicious” “recipe“. A second myth blames a “Remainer coup”, driven by the “anti-growth coalition” and “the Remainer elite”; a “very British coup” propelled by a “pushback against democracy”.

The reality is more prosaic. Truss was the product, not the source, of her party’s problems. She embodied a Conservatism that embraced creative destruction, that was dismissive of caution and contemptuous of institutions, that prized ideology over experience and regarded opposing voices as heresies to be burned out; a Conservatism that had ceded power to irresponsible think-tanks, contrarian newspaper columnists and a dwindling party membership that nobody has elected. Truss’s crime was to carry that Molotov Cocktail into government, holding it aloft like a torch; but it was others who mixed the ingredients and lit the fuse. The paradox is that this combustible mix was so often described as “real” or “true” Conservatism; yet that aspiration may offer the beginnings of a road to recovery.

If the Conservative Party is to rebuild itself, it might find inspiration in its own best traditions. It might recognise that institutions are fragile and easily damaged: that the problem with “moving fast and breaking things” is that things of value get broken. It might revive its sense of human fallibility, requiring grand ideological visions to be tested carefully against evidence and experience. It might recognise, as Margaret Thatcher did, that caution is not the enemy of change, but a crucial component of its success.

That will require it to reconsider its taste for disruption, and to wean itself off the influence of what Truss herself famously called “vested interests dressed up as think-tanks”. Like the Labour Party, it may also need to rethink the case for treating the choice of prime minister as a subscriber benefit for its dwindling pool of members. Temperamentally, Sunak seems less inclined to play the “disruptor”; whether he can defy the forces in his party that crave such a role remains to be seen.

In her final speech as Prime Minister, Truss offered a mangled quotation from the Roman philosopher Seneca: “It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare. It is because we do not dare that they are difficult”. It was a bizarre choice for a politician who had just crashed the public finances and destroyed her own premiership, as a result — in her own words — of going “too far and too fast“. If the Conservative Party is to take Seneca as its inspiration, it might be wiser to look to his reflections on Epicurus, who remarked that “A consciousness of wrongdoing is the first step to salvation”. This, Seneca concluded, was a “very good” maxim. “For a person who is not aware that he is doing anything wrong has no desire to be put right. You have to catch yourself doing it before you can reform”.


Robert Saunders is a Reader in Modern British History at Queen Mary University and author of Yes to Europe!

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John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

I got as far as ‘mythical “anti-growth coalition” ‘ and then gave up. This is a hopelessly poor analysis of what happened to Liz Truss and the Tory Party, and it is worth remarking that as events proceed this year and into the next, it will come to be seen as something that happened to the whole country.

The Truss government may have had its limitations where communications is concerned, but its core message was 100% correct. It was simply not something the Establishment wanted to hear, and the toxic reaction of the City to a badly presented budget combined with an asleep-at-the-wheel Bank of England provided the perfect opportunity for the Establishment to bring down Truss’s government.

What Truss/Kwarteng were proposing was an extremely modest retraction of what has been out-of-control public spending and bureaucratic bloat during Boris Johnson’s period in office. In simple numbers, state spending was to be moved back from 36.5% of GDP to just 36%, a level that last applied just before the pandemic. This, apparently, was a colossally reckless move? Utter nonsense.

Anyone that takes the political narrative on this at face value is an idiot. This was the State simply ensuring that its growing entitlement to the wallets of the rest of us was not to be questioned, that’s all.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Mark Lewis
Mark Lewis
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

I’ve found it incredible how readily people have swallowed the lie that Truss’ budget was insanely reckless & terrible for them, and that Sunak’s budget is what we in fact needed.
Truss put forward tax reductions for all (including the foolish move of abolishing of 45% band no one was calling for and just gave her opposition ammunition) & spending plans that included helping everyone on energy/cost of living for 2 years. It was actually a very friendly budget for the average person.
The ‘market’ reaction was bizarre and the media response typically hyperactive & sensationalist. It all seemed very co-ordinated to bring her down & put Sunak in place.
The same Tory party that had insisted we couldn’t undo the Brexit vote cos it’d be undemocratic, then briefed relentlessly against her & went about undoing the, er, membership vote to put her as leader (the Tory democratic process, whether you like the idea of how it all works, we don’t vote for a PM etc) & force her out and install the man they had expected to win the contest originally instead.
We were then all told that *actually* what is good for us, is tax rises via stealth until 2028 (band freezes), reductions in spending, less support on energy/cost of living & I’m sure numerous other things I’ve missed/forgotten that are equally bad news for the average citizen.
For what it’s worth, I’ve not voted Tory in 20 odd years of voting, initially Labour, later Lib Dem and nowadays simply not bothering as I’ve lost faith in them all. I will say though that the bashing Truss got was unwarranted, the market reaction scripted, the media an embarrassment & the Tory party as shameless as usual in ousting her so quickly.
I would say I’m shocked by how readily people have accepted all this, but then I’m all shocked out after witnessing, for 2 years, people begging to be locked in their homes, insisting everyone be masked up, regularly swabbed & happily snitching on neighbours, family & friends for not going along with it, so I guess I am just at odds with what most other people seem to want.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Lewis

I still believe that what did for her was the completely unnecessary removal of the 45% band (a tiny part of the overall tax package) and the cap on bankers bonuses. Those two items alone were like throwing red meat to the baying gutter press, who gleefully whipped up the hysteria which eventually led to her downfall.
Fine margins, but with better timing and PR she might still be in office and growth still on the agenda.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Lewis

I still believe that what did for her was the completely unnecessary removal of the 45% band (a tiny part of the overall tax package) and the cap on bankers bonuses. Those two items alone were like throwing red meat to the baying gutter press, who gleefully whipped up the hysteria which eventually led to her downfall.
Fine margins, but with better timing and PR she might still be in office and growth still on the agenda.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

You sound like the left wing of the Labour party. “The program was 100% correct, but it was brought down by [in their case] the hostile right-wing press“. If you want to govern the country, you need to be able to deal with the country you have actually got, and the stumbling blocks you are actually going to encounter. If you cannot do that you will fail. Complaining that in a better world it ought to have worked and the job was just too difficult is simply a cop-out.

As the article points out, the Conservative party as a whole made this choice. If they want to succeed in the future, the party as a whole ought to acknowledge the failure and consider how to do better. I hope they will – so I can vote for them one day.

Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I think your analysis is deeply flawed. Thatcher’s necessary reforms that saved this country were achieved in the face of huge opposition. The Johnson government had a huge majority but couldn’t be bothered. The country is now in an even worse state and the Tories and Labour have both got their heads in the sand. It will only get worse and the answer isn’t more Labour lite Blairism.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

I do not think we disagree. Thatcher expected opposition and was ready and capable of dealing with it. Truss produced policies that led to huge opposition and a market meltdown, without having considered the consequences or how to deal with them. If you really think cutting the top rate of income tax in the middle of a recession and huge government deficit will lead to great growth, I will not stop you – though I have my doubts. But at least think through first how to get it done without causing an immediate crash.

Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Thank you for your reply. The style of the crash and subsequent recovery (when all our fundamental problems remain or are arguably worse given this government’s weakness) did not impress much. I experienced quite a few “crashes” during my time in investment banking starting in the 80s and this one as I did noted impress me much.

Last edited 1 year ago by Will Will
Dustin Needle
Dustin Needle
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

“Thatcher expected opposition and was ready and capable of dealing with it.” I agree, but let us not forget she had many capable experienced political lieutenants who could run departments, articulate policies to the media, deal with loaded/difficult questions etc. Likewise Reagan, who inherited the battle-scarred veterans of the Nixon campaign.
These tough nuts simply do not exist anymore. For most of them, standing toe to toe with the embedded opposition is too exhausting. So they don’t bother with principles anymore and go with the Blairite flow of their opponents. Who have the wind in their sails of a vastly expanded media operation, 24 hour news, round the clock, round the world. And they’re all pre-programmed. Sort of Mark’s point – I think.
Resistance to the machine is futile. Cue Malcolm Tucker’s final speech (my censorship) in the “Thick of It”:
“I take this job home, it ******** ties me to the bed, and it ******** ***** me from ***hole to breakfast… I am a ******** host for this ******** job,”

Last edited 1 year ago by Dustin Needle
Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

What opposition, Sunaks followers? A few final salary pension funds got caught out and started a sell off, so they could meet their obligations, which caused others to follow suit. Bonds were already down and the steep curve they were on started around July time.

Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Thank you for your reply. The style of the crash and subsequent recovery (when all our fundamental problems remain or are arguably worse given this government’s weakness) did not impress much. I experienced quite a few “crashes” during my time in investment banking starting in the 80s and this one as I did noted impress me much.

Last edited 1 year ago by Will Will
Dustin Needle
Dustin Needle
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

“Thatcher expected opposition and was ready and capable of dealing with it.” I agree, but let us not forget she had many capable experienced political lieutenants who could run departments, articulate policies to the media, deal with loaded/difficult questions etc. Likewise Reagan, who inherited the battle-scarred veterans of the Nixon campaign.
These tough nuts simply do not exist anymore. For most of them, standing toe to toe with the embedded opposition is too exhausting. So they don’t bother with principles anymore and go with the Blairite flow of their opponents. Who have the wind in their sails of a vastly expanded media operation, 24 hour news, round the clock, round the world. And they’re all pre-programmed. Sort of Mark’s point – I think.
Resistance to the machine is futile. Cue Malcolm Tucker’s final speech (my censorship) in the “Thick of It”:
“I take this job home, it ******** ties me to the bed, and it ******** ***** me from ***hole to breakfast… I am a ******** host for this ******** job,”

Last edited 1 year ago by Dustin Needle
Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

What opposition, Sunaks followers? A few final salary pension funds got caught out and started a sell off, so they could meet their obligations, which caused others to follow suit. Bonds were already down and the steep curve they were on started around July time.

Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

Yes. Truss was a truly terrible general who marched her army blindly into a trap. Tactically she and KK were abysmal, impatient, grossly naive. But her basic CAUSE was just. She wanted to promote growth, limit the State and encourage wealth creators. She wanted to START Brexit and that all meant confronting all the hostile reactionary Blairite powers that had taken over the British State. But she led her army to slaughter. Her impatience saw her promise a bumper 150bn 2 year bailout at the very same time as the tax reforms. Why?? It was like the French cavalry charging madly into a rain of arrows and annihilation in a choke point at Agincourt. If she had launched the popular overdue energy first…then waited a month or so to start a introducing a gradual programme of pro business tax cuts matched with (never seen) proposed cuts to the public sector Blob (ignoring the stupid unnecssary banker bonus and delaying the equally ‘hot’ 45 tax cut – both of which her antennae should have said ‘leave – do not provoke the Remainiac and Leftist media on day 1’) she may have survived awhile. But she was no Napoleon or Henry V. She was sadly out of her depth and so gifted the many enemies of growth, wealth creation, SMEs, personal responsibility, Brexit and more a gleeful easy victory.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

I do not think we disagree. Thatcher expected opposition and was ready and capable of dealing with it. Truss produced policies that led to huge opposition and a market meltdown, without having considered the consequences or how to deal with them. If you really think cutting the top rate of income tax in the middle of a recession and huge government deficit will lead to great growth, I will not stop you – though I have my doubts. But at least think through first how to get it done without causing an immediate crash.

Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

Yes. Truss was a truly terrible general who marched her army blindly into a trap. Tactically she and KK were abysmal, impatient, grossly naive. But her basic CAUSE was just. She wanted to promote growth, limit the State and encourage wealth creators. She wanted to START Brexit and that all meant confronting all the hostile reactionary Blairite powers that had taken over the British State. But she led her army to slaughter. Her impatience saw her promise a bumper 150bn 2 year bailout at the very same time as the tax reforms. Why?? It was like the French cavalry charging madly into a rain of arrows and annihilation in a choke point at Agincourt. If she had launched the popular overdue energy first…then waited a month or so to start a introducing a gradual programme of pro business tax cuts matched with (never seen) proposed cuts to the public sector Blob (ignoring the stupid unnecssary banker bonus and delaying the equally ‘hot’ 45 tax cut – both of which her antennae should have said ‘leave – do not provoke the Remainiac and Leftist media on day 1’) she may have survived awhile. But she was no Napoleon or Henry V. She was sadly out of her depth and so gifted the many enemies of growth, wealth creation, SMEs, personal responsibility, Brexit and more a gleeful easy victory.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

“You sound like the left wing of the Labour party. “The program was 100% correct, but it was brought down by [in their case] the hostile right-wing press“.”

You are missing the obvious point that it matters whether or not the Truss proposals were an example of ideological overreach. They returned the fiscal balance to somewhere still more statist than the Blair/Brown governments 1997-2010, so to categorise my argument as being one half of a partisan point scoring argument simply doesn’t come anywhere near plausible.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

You are saying ‘Ah yes, but Truss was right!’. Maybe so, but so is the Labour left saying ‘Ah yes, but Jeremy was right!’ In either case it is the PM’s job to push his program through the expected opposition. If he cannot do that he should go for a different program that he can actually make happen, not complain that his beautiful policies would have worked, if only …

Last edited 1 year ago by Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

You are saying ‘Ah yes, but Truss was right!’. Maybe so, but so is the Labour left saying ‘Ah yes, but Jeremy was right!’ In either case it is the PM’s job to push his program through the expected opposition. If he cannot do that he should go for a different program that he can actually make happen, not complain that his beautiful policies would have worked, if only …

Last edited 1 year ago by Rasmus Fogh
Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I think your analysis is deeply flawed. Thatcher’s necessary reforms that saved this country were achieved in the face of huge opposition. The Johnson government had a huge majority but couldn’t be bothered. The country is now in an even worse state and the Tories and Labour have both got their heads in the sand. It will only get worse and the answer isn’t more Labour lite Blairism.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

“You sound like the left wing of the Labour party. “The program was 100% correct, but it was brought down by [in their case] the hostile right-wing press“.”

You are missing the obvious point that it matters whether or not the Truss proposals were an example of ideological overreach. They returned the fiscal balance to somewhere still more statist than the Blair/Brown governments 1997-2010, so to categorise my argument as being one half of a partisan point scoring argument simply doesn’t come anywhere near plausible.

Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Well said. Couldn’t agree more.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

A repeat of 1660, yet again!

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

I’m with you on that analysis & your view that the article “is a hopelessly poor analysis of what happened”
Written by a university professor, tells you as much as you need to know about the author’s background.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

Well, it’s not really a university.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Not in the sense of the ‘gilded three’ Oxford, The Other Pace and Trinity College Dublin, I’ll grant you.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Not in the sense of the ‘gilded three’ Oxford, The Other Pace and Trinity College Dublin, I’ll grant you.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

Well, it’s not really a university.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

I agree with you. As someone who lives off a pension, the decline was happening way before the mini budget. Unfortunately she just carried the can for it, we now have a government that doesn’t even have a growth plan, while spending is due to increase in each of the next two years.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Yes, how dare bond market doesn’t believe Liz Truss?!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

“Worse things happen at sea”!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

“Worse things happen at sea”!

Mark Lewis
Mark Lewis
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

I’ve found it incredible how readily people have swallowed the lie that Truss’ budget was insanely reckless & terrible for them, and that Sunak’s budget is what we in fact needed.
Truss put forward tax reductions for all (including the foolish move of abolishing of 45% band no one was calling for and just gave her opposition ammunition) & spending plans that included helping everyone on energy/cost of living for 2 years. It was actually a very friendly budget for the average person.
The ‘market’ reaction was bizarre and the media response typically hyperactive & sensationalist. It all seemed very co-ordinated to bring her down & put Sunak in place.
The same Tory party that had insisted we couldn’t undo the Brexit vote cos it’d be undemocratic, then briefed relentlessly against her & went about undoing the, er, membership vote to put her as leader (the Tory democratic process, whether you like the idea of how it all works, we don’t vote for a PM etc) & force her out and install the man they had expected to win the contest originally instead.
We were then all told that *actually* what is good for us, is tax rises via stealth until 2028 (band freezes), reductions in spending, less support on energy/cost of living & I’m sure numerous other things I’ve missed/forgotten that are equally bad news for the average citizen.
For what it’s worth, I’ve not voted Tory in 20 odd years of voting, initially Labour, later Lib Dem and nowadays simply not bothering as I’ve lost faith in them all. I will say though that the bashing Truss got was unwarranted, the market reaction scripted, the media an embarrassment & the Tory party as shameless as usual in ousting her so quickly.
I would say I’m shocked by how readily people have accepted all this, but then I’m all shocked out after witnessing, for 2 years, people begging to be locked in their homes, insisting everyone be masked up, regularly swabbed & happily snitching on neighbours, family & friends for not going along with it, so I guess I am just at odds with what most other people seem to want.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

You sound like the left wing of the Labour party. “The program was 100% correct, but it was brought down by [in their case] the hostile right-wing press“. If you want to govern the country, you need to be able to deal with the country you have actually got, and the stumbling blocks you are actually going to encounter. If you cannot do that you will fail. Complaining that in a better world it ought to have worked and the job was just too difficult is simply a cop-out.

As the article points out, the Conservative party as a whole made this choice. If they want to succeed in the future, the party as a whole ought to acknowledge the failure and consider how to do better. I hope they will – so I can vote for them one day.

Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Well said. Couldn’t agree more.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

A repeat of 1660, yet again!

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

I’m with you on that analysis & your view that the article “is a hopelessly poor analysis of what happened”
Written by a university professor, tells you as much as you need to know about the author’s background.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

I agree with you. As someone who lives off a pension, the decline was happening way before the mini budget. Unfortunately she just carried the can for it, we now have a government that doesn’t even have a growth plan, while spending is due to increase in each of the next two years.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Yes, how dare bond market doesn’t believe Liz Truss?!

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

I got as far as ‘mythical “anti-growth coalition” ‘ and then gave up. This is a hopelessly poor analysis of what happened to Liz Truss and the Tory Party, and it is worth remarking that as events proceed this year and into the next, it will come to be seen as something that happened to the whole country.

The Truss government may have had its limitations where communications is concerned, but its core message was 100% correct. It was simply not something the Establishment wanted to hear, and the toxic reaction of the City to a badly presented budget combined with an asleep-at-the-wheel Bank of England provided the perfect opportunity for the Establishment to bring down Truss’s government.

What Truss/Kwarteng were proposing was an extremely modest retraction of what has been out-of-control public spending and bureaucratic bloat during Boris Johnson’s period in office. In simple numbers, state spending was to be moved back from 36.5% of GDP to just 36%, a level that last applied just before the pandemic. This, apparently, was a colossally reckless move? Utter nonsense.

Anyone that takes the political narrative on this at face value is an idiot. This was the State simply ensuring that its growing entitlement to the wallets of the rest of us was not to be questioned, that’s all.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

I was no fan of Truss but to pretend she was not taken out by a political by that “mythical” anti growth coalition of Remainers and Blob plants is ludicrous. Rishi Sunak, a creature of multinational organisations, banks, high finance and even the World Economic Forum, lost a leadership vote but was implanted anyway, like a parasite into a host. We have got a Goldman Sachs man as PM because ‘the markets’ got scared. Pathetic.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

‘Mythical’ being your key word of course RW.

Justin Clark
Justin Clark
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

A strong whiff of WEF indeed

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

No, Tories MPs went home and got an earful from their voters.
£ went down, the price of GOV debt went up.
Feel free not to borrow money from the markets.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

‘Mythical’ being your key word of course RW.

Justin Clark
Justin Clark
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

A strong whiff of WEF indeed

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

No, Tories MPs went home and got an earful from their voters.
£ went down, the price of GOV debt went up.
Feel free not to borrow money from the markets.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

I was no fan of Truss but to pretend she was not taken out by a political by that “mythical” anti growth coalition of Remainers and Blob plants is ludicrous. Rishi Sunak, a creature of multinational organisations, banks, high finance and even the World Economic Forum, lost a leadership vote but was implanted anyway, like a parasite into a host. We have got a Goldman Sachs man as PM because ‘the markets’ got scared. Pathetic.

Stephen Walsh
Stephen Walsh
1 year ago

Whatever. Liz Truss did not crash the public finances. 10 year Gilt yields reached 4.6%, but that was at least partly linked to mixed messages from the BoE around QT, rather than being entirely due to the mini-budget. In any event higher Gilt rates would have been worth it if they, rather than higher taxes, were the main weapon in tackling inflation. Clearly Liz Truss was unfit for high office, but now that the adults are back in charge, the party appears to be drifting towards a wipe out in 2024, with almost nothing positive to show from 14 years in office – GDP per head no higher than in 2008, a society more fractured than ever, a Woke takeover of cultural institutions, Brexit dying of neglect, the Union in peril, freedom of speech being eroded, tax at a 70 year high, an unreformed NHS on the verge of collapse, basic public services failing, children and women at risk from a strident Trans agenda, and policing, border control, the criminal justice system, and the public finances in a mess. And with votes at 16 likely to be enacted by the next government, and massively hostile long term voter demographics, it is unlikely the Conservatives will ever win an election again. That is why the membership took a gamble on Truss. But the author is at least to be commended for getting some more mileage from that hardy perennial “people in this country have had enough of experts”.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stephen Walsh
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

An excellent précis, thank you.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Agree with all of this, but did you expect a left-wing academic to have any grasp of basic economics?

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

You don’t. And you are a conservative – right?

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

You don’t. And you are a conservative – right?

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Liz Truss did not crash the public finances …. that idiot Sunak did with his pal Johnson – putting the economy into a medically induced coma for 2 years and paying most of the population from the proceeds of the magic money tree.
(and of course many years of QE which is simply a linguistic re-band on printing money like they did on the old days)

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Brexit dying of neglect, 

Yes, is Brexit like communism…we just haven’t tried the real one?!

Glyn R
Glyn R
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Indeed. If everything else fails if Labour gets to enforce votes for 16 years olds – and they will – it will certainly ensure the end of the Conservative Party and much else besides. That said, for some time now it has seemed to me that that is exactly what a certain powerful quarter of the Conservative Party has wanted. They certainly did their best to destroy that incredible landslide victory of 2019 and they succeeded. Now it is dead in the water.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

An excellent précis, thank you.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Agree with all of this, but did you expect a left-wing academic to have any grasp of basic economics?

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Liz Truss did not crash the public finances …. that idiot Sunak did with his pal Johnson – putting the economy into a medically induced coma for 2 years and paying most of the population from the proceeds of the magic money tree.
(and of course many years of QE which is simply a linguistic re-band on printing money like they did on the old days)

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Brexit dying of neglect, 

Yes, is Brexit like communism…we just haven’t tried the real one?!

Glyn R
Glyn R
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Indeed. If everything else fails if Labour gets to enforce votes for 16 years olds – and they will – it will certainly ensure the end of the Conservative Party and much else besides. That said, for some time now it has seemed to me that that is exactly what a certain powerful quarter of the Conservative Party has wanted. They certainly did their best to destroy that incredible landslide victory of 2019 and they succeeded. Now it is dead in the water.

Stephen Walsh
Stephen Walsh
1 year ago

Whatever. Liz Truss did not crash the public finances. 10 year Gilt yields reached 4.6%, but that was at least partly linked to mixed messages from the BoE around QT, rather than being entirely due to the mini-budget. In any event higher Gilt rates would have been worth it if they, rather than higher taxes, were the main weapon in tackling inflation. Clearly Liz Truss was unfit for high office, but now that the adults are back in charge, the party appears to be drifting towards a wipe out in 2024, with almost nothing positive to show from 14 years in office – GDP per head no higher than in 2008, a society more fractured than ever, a Woke takeover of cultural institutions, Brexit dying of neglect, the Union in peril, freedom of speech being eroded, tax at a 70 year high, an unreformed NHS on the verge of collapse, basic public services failing, children and women at risk from a strident Trans agenda, and policing, border control, the criminal justice system, and the public finances in a mess. And with votes at 16 likely to be enacted by the next government, and massively hostile long term voter demographics, it is unlikely the Conservatives will ever win an election again. That is why the membership took a gamble on Truss. But the author is at least to be commended for getting some more mileage from that hardy perennial “people in this country have had enough of experts”.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stephen Walsh
Nick Wade
Nick Wade
1 year ago

I’m still struggling to see how a £2 billion tax cut that ultimately might have paid for itself “crashed” the economy, but spaffing £400 billion on wasted PPE, paying people not to work , test and trace etc goes unnoticed. Ho hum.

Nick Wade
Nick Wade
1 year ago

I’m still struggling to see how a £2 billion tax cut that ultimately might have paid for itself “crashed” the economy, but spaffing £400 billion on wasted PPE, paying people not to work , test and trace etc goes unnoticed. Ho hum.

Andrew Watson
Andrew Watson
1 year ago

Excellent article. The hubris and ideological blindness of the Conservative party has brought enormous and historic harm on this country – and far worse is yet to come. The catastrophic disaster of Truss’ brief reign was in fact the end of the Brexit project: we have NOT taken back control, and there is no point to the project if we have not. We are left with all the harms of Brexit, which are vast, and none of its putative benefits. In time Brexit will consume its children, but that does not mean only the ideologues who led us over the cliff, but all of us who have followed them – willingly or not.

Aidan Anabetting
Aidan Anabetting
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Watson

Spot on.

Stephen Walsh
Stephen Walsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Watson

People typically label those they disagree with as ‘ideologues’; they rarely admit to being ideologues themselves. I would suggest that the aversion to taking back control, and securing the benefits of Brexit, is at root ideological.

Aidan Anabetting
Aidan Anabetting
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Watson

Spot on.

Stephen Walsh
Stephen Walsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Watson

People typically label those they disagree with as ‘ideologues’; they rarely admit to being ideologues themselves. I would suggest that the aversion to taking back control, and securing the benefits of Brexit, is at root ideological.

Andrew Watson
Andrew Watson
1 year ago

Excellent article. The hubris and ideological blindness of the Conservative party has brought enormous and historic harm on this country – and far worse is yet to come. The catastrophic disaster of Truss’ brief reign was in fact the end of the Brexit project: we have NOT taken back control, and there is no point to the project if we have not. We are left with all the harms of Brexit, which are vast, and none of its putative benefits. In time Brexit will consume its children, but that does not mean only the ideologues who led us over the cliff, but all of us who have followed them – willingly or not.

Mike Carr
Mike Carr
1 year ago

I still can’t get my head around problems with a few billion “unfunded” by Truss against 400 billion unfunded by Sunak? But i did enjoy my discounted meals at the time.

Mike Carr
Mike Carr
1 year ago

I still can’t get my head around problems with a few billion “unfunded” by Truss against 400 billion unfunded by Sunak? But i did enjoy my discounted meals at the time.

Guy Haynes
Guy Haynes
1 year ago

A slight re-write of history methinks.

Liz Truss was not cheered into office by the adoring membership and press. She was nowhere near the membership’s first choice – that honour fell to Kemi Badenoch, with Mordaunt and Braverman also polling better than her. And then there’s Boris Johnson himself – where the majority of members felt that there was no pressing need to replace him despite Party-gate. (While doubtless the polls were poor, they were not especially disastrous for a mid term government at the time – though they most certainly are now).

The decision to oust Johnson was the MPs’ alone. The decision to put Truss and Sunak to the membership was the MPs alone. The decision to “impose” Jeremy Hunt as chancellor was the MPs and the defenestration of Truss was the MPs. I have seen several occasions in my lifetime where the markets have reacted badly to a UK government or bank decision (this was undoubtedly both despite what journalists try to tell you) – and I’ve seen worse on several occasions. Yet only once, here, have we seen a PM and Chancellor lose their jobs as a result. It happened because the MPs wanted it to happen.

The MPs at the centre of each stage were the same – the globalist, technocratic wing of the party. They spotted an opportunity to oust a leader who they’d merely tolerated because of his ability to win an election, and went for it. When the membership installed Truss, they doubled down and went again.

I’m not a Conservative member and nor would I always vote for them, so I’m not trying to offer my opinion of Johnson, Truss or Sunak – but to blame the members is ridiculous. All they did is choose between their 5th and 6th choices as leader – and probably went with Truss because they were extremely unenamoured by the behaviour of Sunak’s backers.

It is not difficult to see why.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Guy Haynes

This is a more accurate assessment than the actual article.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Guy Haynes

This is a more accurate assessment than the actual article.

Guy Haynes
Guy Haynes
1 year ago

A slight re-write of history methinks.

Liz Truss was not cheered into office by the adoring membership and press. She was nowhere near the membership’s first choice – that honour fell to Kemi Badenoch, with Mordaunt and Braverman also polling better than her. And then there’s Boris Johnson himself – where the majority of members felt that there was no pressing need to replace him despite Party-gate. (While doubtless the polls were poor, they were not especially disastrous for a mid term government at the time – though they most certainly are now).

The decision to oust Johnson was the MPs’ alone. The decision to put Truss and Sunak to the membership was the MPs alone. The decision to “impose” Jeremy Hunt as chancellor was the MPs and the defenestration of Truss was the MPs. I have seen several occasions in my lifetime where the markets have reacted badly to a UK government or bank decision (this was undoubtedly both despite what journalists try to tell you) – and I’ve seen worse on several occasions. Yet only once, here, have we seen a PM and Chancellor lose their jobs as a result. It happened because the MPs wanted it to happen.

The MPs at the centre of each stage were the same – the globalist, technocratic wing of the party. They spotted an opportunity to oust a leader who they’d merely tolerated because of his ability to win an election, and went for it. When the membership installed Truss, they doubled down and went again.

I’m not a Conservative member and nor would I always vote for them, so I’m not trying to offer my opinion of Johnson, Truss or Sunak – but to blame the members is ridiculous. All they did is choose between their 5th and 6th choices as leader – and probably went with Truss because they were extremely unenamoured by the behaviour of Sunak’s backers.

It is not difficult to see why.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

An article on the Tories by someone with the twitter handle ‘redhistorian’

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

So?

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

It’s like reading an article about Muller fruit corner yoghurt by someone called ‘mullerfruitcornerhater’

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

But it could be that the ‘mullerfruitcornerhater’ hates the product for good reason, and, if I were comtemplating buying it, I would appreciate his view.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

But it could be that the ‘mullerfruitcornerhater’ hates the product for good reason, and, if I were comtemplating buying it, I would appreciate his view.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

It’s like reading an article about Muller fruit corner yoghurt by someone called ‘mullerfruitcornerhater’

Pat Rowles
Pat Rowles
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

There’s an outside chance the handle reflects that he’s a ginge…
I’ll get me coat.

Last edited 1 year ago by Pat Rowles
Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

So?

Pat Rowles
Pat Rowles
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

There’s an outside chance the handle reflects that he’s a ginge…
I’ll get me coat.

Last edited 1 year ago by Pat Rowles
Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

An article on the Tories by someone with the twitter handle ‘redhistorian’

Mike Michaels
Mike Michaels
1 year ago

WEF coup.

Mike Michaels
Mike Michaels
1 year ago

WEF coup.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

This desperately complacent defence of Britain’s lazy and incompetent governing class and it’s sclerotic status quo is pretty much what one would expect from the author of Yes to Europe. Institutions are ‘fragile’, eh? I think ‘moribund’ says it better, particularly institutions engaged in what passes for education.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

This desperately complacent defence of Britain’s lazy and incompetent governing class and it’s sclerotic status quo is pretty much what one would expect from the author of Yes to Europe. Institutions are ‘fragile’, eh? I think ‘moribund’ says it better, particularly institutions engaged in what passes for education.

Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago

Oh dear. It seems PM Sunak’s grand idea is to require all schoolchildren to study mathematics until they are 18. If that is the best he and his team can do to sort out this country’s problems I think Truss would have done a better job.
FWIW, I won’t be renewing my subscription to Unherd as it isn’t the breath of fresh air it was when it launched and has gone off the boil in the last few months. I can still watch the interview on YouTube and get a lot more value now from my other much longer established subscriptions.

Last edited 1 year ago by Will Will
Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

I am feeling the same, am worried it’s showing it’s true Metro-yawn uber-liberal colours. All journos and commentators are the same really, more worried about how they’re viewed at warm white wine drinks parties with other journos than, er… speaking to their readers.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

Oh dear. Are you both (WW & BJ) so fragile that if you come across the odd UnHerd article that isn’t from a more right wing perspective you implode?
The point is views and beliefs that one may hold are worth testing out in other than an echo chamber. You don’t build neuronal muscle, so to speak, just hearing what you want to hear and not having your points challenged. One’s views become flaccid and impotent.

Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Your comment is redundant; not “fragile” in the least, have simply gone from visiting the Unherd website on a daily basis to maybe once a week because the articles aren’t as interesting as they used to be. Nothing to do with agreeing with them or not.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

I do suspect the ‘less interesting’ bit potentially also a product of the Right making such a hash of things and it being almost impossible to avoid having to confront that reality in just about any current affairs/opinion forum at this time.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Not remotely fragile, just increasingly bored by article after article expressing a similar vibe. The one on ‘Libs of Tiktok’ being a recent example. Although your comment on the ‘Right’ is interesting, as the Tories clearly aren’t. They are Blairites.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Not remotely fragile, just increasingly bored by article after article expressing a similar vibe. The one on ‘Libs of Tiktok’ being a recent example. Although your comment on the ‘Right’ is interesting, as the Tories clearly aren’t. They are Blairites.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

I do suspect the ‘less interesting’ bit potentially also a product of the Right making such a hash of things and it being almost impossible to avoid having to confront that reality in just about any current affairs/opinion forum at this time.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Okay, look at it from this perspective – the liberal left spawned what we are all calling, for want of a better word, Woke. They breastfed postmodernism when many warned of how poisonous it was. Then, when their monster turned on them, hordes of middle-age, middle-class leftists decamped and found gigs in centre-right media (the Speccie and Telegraph, for example, are like refugee camps for old-school feminists). Quillette? Hilarious. It reads like a sort of AA meeting for people surprised by the Woke monster it created but not really able to acknowledge their role in its creation.
I’m perfectly happy to read alternative points of view. As you say, it’s good for the brain. What I’m not happy with is the never-ending long march of liberals camping out on hitherto refreshingly not-so-metro-liberal places. They’re like those signs on Texas freeways warning Californians that, although they are welcome, not to turn it into the place they just left.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

I must admit I hadn’t really run into Woke much until joining UnHerd. I think it’s seriously overplayed by the Right and in part because they need to find another outlet for their outrage having made such a hash of economies and capitalism.
One has this nagging suspicion too that people banging on about Woke can’t define it or define it in such a way that it’ll catch anything they might disagree with. It comes across at times as bit classic ‘emperor got no clothes’ stuff.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t some elements where the Trans agenda or a revisionist view of history, as examples, hasn’t become daft and potential dangerous too, but its prevalence is massively overstated. We don’t all live on university campuses even if occasionally being on-line so much can make us feel like that.
I tend to find younger people are less keen on demonising migrants or obsessing over the existence of trans people. Younger people are more likely to defend the rights of the minorities bullied and harassed by right wing politicians. Many conservatives seem to hate them for it. In building and benefiting from an economic model that has left younger people facing much more insecure futures than we had and then repelling them with a “culture war” against progressive values, British and US ‘anti-woke-ists’ and Right wingers seem intent on their own demise. 

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

If you think Woke is overplayed then that’s fine. I think you are wrong and ignoring the evidence, but c’est la vie. I also think the generation who invented the awful term ‘gaslighting’ are shamelessly doing exactly the same thing to people who disagree with their agenda. Of course, one day they will come for you. I fear it’s a monster that won’t be sated until it burns itself out.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

I think you are lacking confidence BJ in the ability of institutions to self correct and expel nonsense, even if initially prone to absorbing it a little too much.
Private sector companies will in due course junk nonsense stuff unless it contributes positively to bottom line.
Universities can be a greater challenge, because for example people will want to go to an Ivy league or Oxbridge whatever the nonsense playing out there. But it’s about Organisations grasping the mettle and telling students you can have your separate groups where certain things can’t be said and you feel it’s a ‘safe-space’, but in the classroom that doesn’t apply and don’t come here if you can’t handle that. Univ of Austin probably a good example of market response in this direction. Univ of Chicago I understand similar. So I’m more positive these things do rebalance and will in the coming few years.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

I think you are lacking confidence BJ in the ability of institutions to self correct and expel nonsense, even if initially prone to absorbing it a little too much.
Private sector companies will in due course junk nonsense stuff unless it contributes positively to bottom line.
Universities can be a greater challenge, because for example people will want to go to an Ivy league or Oxbridge whatever the nonsense playing out there. But it’s about Organisations grasping the mettle and telling students you can have your separate groups where certain things can’t be said and you feel it’s a ‘safe-space’, but in the classroom that doesn’t apply and don’t come here if you can’t handle that. Univ of Austin probably a good example of market response in this direction. Univ of Chicago I understand similar. So I’m more positive these things do rebalance and will in the coming few years.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Woke is a very silly term for something very real and very dangerous. Have a look at the Unherd article today on why the mass rape of thousands of underage white working class girls went on across tens of towns and cities across the UK for decades without any intervention from a craven complicit media/BBC, police force and councils and a Home Office who ALL knew it was happening…but turned their backs on these girls out of fear of appearing discriminatory. The cult-like equality mania and State credo of identitarianism is a very real accelerating social poison, not some abstract academic game.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

Yes WM, read the Jay report few years ago when published and the more recent Operation Linden report focused on the Police response. Shocking failures. And hopefully the lessons are being learned as set out in both.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

Yes WM, read the Jay report few years ago when published and the more recent Operation Linden report focused on the Police response. Shocking failures. And hopefully the lessons are being learned as set out in both.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

If you think Woke is overplayed then that’s fine. I think you are wrong and ignoring the evidence, but c’est la vie. I also think the generation who invented the awful term ‘gaslighting’ are shamelessly doing exactly the same thing to people who disagree with their agenda. Of course, one day they will come for you. I fear it’s a monster that won’t be sated until it burns itself out.

Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Woke is a very silly term for something very real and very dangerous. Have a look at the Unherd article today on why the mass rape of thousands of underage white working class girls went on across tens of towns and cities across the UK for decades without any intervention from a craven complicit media/BBC, police force and councils and a Home Office who ALL knew it was happening…but turned their backs on these girls out of fear of appearing discriminatory. The cult-like equality mania and State credo of identitarianism is a very real accelerating social poison, not some abstract academic game.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

I must admit I hadn’t really run into Woke much until joining UnHerd. I think it’s seriously overplayed by the Right and in part because they need to find another outlet for their outrage having made such a hash of economies and capitalism.
One has this nagging suspicion too that people banging on about Woke can’t define it or define it in such a way that it’ll catch anything they might disagree with. It comes across at times as bit classic ‘emperor got no clothes’ stuff.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t some elements where the Trans agenda or a revisionist view of history, as examples, hasn’t become daft and potential dangerous too, but its prevalence is massively overstated. We don’t all live on university campuses even if occasionally being on-line so much can make us feel like that.
I tend to find younger people are less keen on demonising migrants or obsessing over the existence of trans people. Younger people are more likely to defend the rights of the minorities bullied and harassed by right wing politicians. Many conservatives seem to hate them for it. In building and benefiting from an economic model that has left younger people facing much more insecure futures than we had and then repelling them with a “culture war” against progressive values, British and US ‘anti-woke-ists’ and Right wingers seem intent on their own demise. 

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Subscribers pay to comment. If we express dismay or disappointment with UnHerd, that is our right. It isn’t imploding, flaccid, or impotent. It’s opinion.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago

Not quite the point being made AB. The point was about being open to exposure to views one doesn’t agree with and having to ‘test’ one’s thoughts against others in order to further refine, strengthen, modify, an argument or case. Just conveying an ‘opinion’ without welcoming scrutiny is up there with ‘my truth’ nonsense. Come on I shouldn’t have to be pointing this out to anyone anti-woke.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I find it useful to formulate my thoughts on subjects through the medium of the comments section and don’t mind that I find many of the articles I comment on flaccid and lightweight although many are excellent. The value to me of Unherd is the combination of the articles and that commentators will devote often well argued paragraphs to the subject. Often the facts and insights elicited by the commenters are more valuable than the article itself.

Although I am probably of a more conservative bent than you I always enjoyed reading the Guardian online and only stopped doing so when many of the articles either over-moderated comments or excluded comment altogether. I found it was the public’s comments that I missed.

In contrast the comments in the Telegraph are too brief and too many. You don’t get the interchange with individuals that you come to recognise that you do in Unherd even though they have a similar mix of progressive and conservative writers and many of the progressive are refugees from the Guardian.

The authors of articles I particularly appreciate are those willing to comment on negative comments instead of having then vaporised.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeremy Bray
Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

I think that I read something of yours elsewhere today that I disagreed with, or maybe agreed with who knows, but I do agree with this. I like a variety of articles and comments. The advantage of the Guardian is that after you remove the surprisingly small number of ‘Tory scum’ bits there is a lot of humour and good-nature; I did get the Daily Telegraph for 6 months and enjoyed (disagreeing with) the articles but found the commentariat painfully full of hate (actually the articles aren’t much fun either). I even pay for Unherd (unheard of!) because there is usually something every day worth reading because I learn something; I wouldn’t mind more ‘conservative’-leaning pieces to broaden my mind, but sadly I think that too many of the commentariat are of the Telegraph ilk – still that does give some amusement value.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

I think that I read something of yours elsewhere today that I disagreed with, or maybe agreed with who knows, but I do agree with this. I like a variety of articles and comments. The advantage of the Guardian is that after you remove the surprisingly small number of ‘Tory scum’ bits there is a lot of humour and good-nature; I did get the Daily Telegraph for 6 months and enjoyed (disagreeing with) the articles but found the commentariat painfully full of hate (actually the articles aren’t much fun either). I even pay for Unherd (unheard of!) because there is usually something every day worth reading because I learn something; I wouldn’t mind more ‘conservative’-leaning pieces to broaden my mind, but sadly I think that too many of the commentariat are of the Telegraph ilk – still that does give some amusement value.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I find it useful to formulate my thoughts on subjects through the medium of the comments section and don’t mind that I find many of the articles I comment on flaccid and lightweight although many are excellent. The value to me of Unherd is the combination of the articles and that commentators will devote often well argued paragraphs to the subject. Often the facts and insights elicited by the commenters are more valuable than the article itself.

Although I am probably of a more conservative bent than you I always enjoyed reading the Guardian online and only stopped doing so when many of the articles either over-moderated comments or excluded comment altogether. I found it was the public’s comments that I missed.

In contrast the comments in the Telegraph are too brief and too many. You don’t get the interchange with individuals that you come to recognise that you do in Unherd even though they have a similar mix of progressive and conservative writers and many of the progressive are refugees from the Guardian.

The authors of articles I particularly appreciate are those willing to comment on negative comments instead of having then vaporised.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeremy Bray
j watson
j watson
1 year ago

Not quite the point being made AB. The point was about being open to exposure to views one doesn’t agree with and having to ‘test’ one’s thoughts against others in order to further refine, strengthen, modify, an argument or case. Just conveying an ‘opinion’ without welcoming scrutiny is up there with ‘my truth’ nonsense. Come on I shouldn’t have to be pointing this out to anyone anti-woke.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

The paradox is that the author of the article is himself profoundly conservative. How else do you describe someone who so desperately wants to return to the heady days of Cool Britannia and the Millennium Dome?

Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Your comment is redundant; not “fragile” in the least, have simply gone from visiting the Unherd website on a daily basis to maybe once a week because the articles aren’t as interesting as they used to be. Nothing to do with agreeing with them or not.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Okay, look at it from this perspective – the liberal left spawned what we are all calling, for want of a better word, Woke. They breastfed postmodernism when many warned of how poisonous it was. Then, when their monster turned on them, hordes of middle-age, middle-class leftists decamped and found gigs in centre-right media (the Speccie and Telegraph, for example, are like refugee camps for old-school feminists). Quillette? Hilarious. It reads like a sort of AA meeting for people surprised by the Woke monster it created but not really able to acknowledge their role in its creation.
I’m perfectly happy to read alternative points of view. As you say, it’s good for the brain. What I’m not happy with is the never-ending long march of liberals camping out on hitherto refreshingly not-so-metro-liberal places. They’re like those signs on Texas freeways warning Californians that, although they are welcome, not to turn it into the place they just left.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Subscribers pay to comment. If we express dismay or disappointment with UnHerd, that is our right. It isn’t imploding, flaccid, or impotent. It’s opinion.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

The paradox is that the author of the article is himself profoundly conservative. How else do you describe someone who so desperately wants to return to the heady days of Cool Britannia and the Millennium Dome?

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

established subscriptions.

Like what?
Telegraph? Spectator?

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeremy Smith
Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

I am feeling the same, am worried it’s showing it’s true Metro-yawn uber-liberal colours. All journos and commentators are the same really, more worried about how they’re viewed at warm white wine drinks parties with other journos than, er… speaking to their readers.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

Oh dear. Are you both (WW & BJ) so fragile that if you come across the odd UnHerd article that isn’t from a more right wing perspective you implode?
The point is views and beliefs that one may hold are worth testing out in other than an echo chamber. You don’t build neuronal muscle, so to speak, just hearing what you want to hear and not having your points challenged. One’s views become flaccid and impotent.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Will

established subscriptions.

Like what?
Telegraph? Spectator?

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeremy Smith
Will Will
Will Will
1 year ago

Oh dear. It seems PM Sunak’s grand idea is to require all schoolchildren to study mathematics until they are 18. If that is the best he and his team can do to sort out this country’s problems I think Truss would have done a better job.
FWIW, I won’t be renewing my subscription to Unherd as it isn’t the breath of fresh air it was when it launched and has gone off the boil in the last few months. I can still watch the interview on YouTube and get a lot more value now from my other much longer established subscriptions.

Last edited 1 year ago by Will Will
Antony Hirst
Antony Hirst
1 year ago

Liz Truss. The only PM to have practical, workable solutions…ousted almost immediately because she failed to include the billionaires.
The Truss affair shows there is absolutely no hope for the people or the politics of this festering corrupt cesspit of a country.

Antony Hirst
Antony Hirst
1 year ago

Liz Truss. The only PM to have practical, workable solutions…ousted almost immediately because she failed to include the billionaires.
The Truss affair shows there is absolutely no hope for the people or the politics of this festering corrupt cesspit of a country.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago

Truss didn’t crash the public finances. A month on from the mini-Budget the public finances were back exactly where they were before and the blob had engineered WEF clone Sunak into No 10 as planned.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/markets-didnt-oust-truss-the-bank-of-england-did/2022/10/26/dd92c4d2-54eb-11ed-ac8b-08bbfab1c5a5_story.html

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago

Truss didn’t crash the public finances. A month on from the mini-Budget the public finances were back exactly where they were before and the blob had engineered WEF clone Sunak into No 10 as planned.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/markets-didnt-oust-truss-the-bank-of-england-did/2022/10/26/dd92c4d2-54eb-11ed-ac8b-08bbfab1c5a5_story.html

Dermot O'Sullivan
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago

I’ve just started reading this article and can I just say the ‘animated’ advert at the side is extremely off-putting, constantly distracting my eyes. I don’t mind if you want to put up adverts – I’d prefer if you didn’t, as I’m a paying customer – but if you must then please make them so that they don’t interfere with the reading experience.

Dermot O'Sullivan
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago

I’ve just started reading this article and can I just say the ‘animated’ advert at the side is extremely off-putting, constantly distracting my eyes. I don’t mind if you want to put up adverts – I’d prefer if you didn’t, as I’m a paying customer – but if you must then please make them so that they don’t interfere with the reading experience.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago

Really good article. It is important that the dreadful wooden, robotic performances from Truss do not mask the fact that she was an inevitable convulsion in a failed project with much broader right-wing responsibility.
However the debate about ‘low growth’ was not without some validity, albeit the phrase was and is tossed around with much banality by Truss and her adherents. There was nothing below the surface of tax cuts except some stuff on planning laws. Nothing on major medium and long term investment in science and education. Had the proposed increase in budget deficit been for clearly set out investment in these areas it’s possible the Markets would have responded a little differently. But it was the continual blind belief that tax cuts alone would do the job. There was nothing on Wealth taxes, as so many forms of untaxed wealth act as a block against growth – why invest in innovative industries when you can find easier ways to perpetuate one’s advantage.
There was then nothing on why growth was important – to help fund what? And what trade offs might be necessary as a result. You need a strategy and a purpose. Both were lacking. It was just so banal as to be painful.
Of course here the ‘growth’ dynamic also ran into the declinism inevitable from Brexit choices. At least Truss recognised the approach to immigration was not going to work for her project, leading to Braverman’s ‘temporary’ departure. Yet another classic example of the inherent contradictions behind Tory and Right wing thinking the last 12yrs.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
Aidan Anabetting
Aidan Anabetting
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yep!

Aidan Anabetting
Aidan Anabetting
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yep!

j watson
j watson
1 year ago

Really good article. It is important that the dreadful wooden, robotic performances from Truss do not mask the fact that she was an inevitable convulsion in a failed project with much broader right-wing responsibility.
However the debate about ‘low growth’ was not without some validity, albeit the phrase was and is tossed around with much banality by Truss and her adherents. There was nothing below the surface of tax cuts except some stuff on planning laws. Nothing on major medium and long term investment in science and education. Had the proposed increase in budget deficit been for clearly set out investment in these areas it’s possible the Markets would have responded a little differently. But it was the continual blind belief that tax cuts alone would do the job. There was nothing on Wealth taxes, as so many forms of untaxed wealth act as a block against growth – why invest in innovative industries when you can find easier ways to perpetuate one’s advantage.
There was then nothing on why growth was important – to help fund what? And what trade offs might be necessary as a result. You need a strategy and a purpose. Both were lacking. It was just so banal as to be painful.
Of course here the ‘growth’ dynamic also ran into the declinism inevitable from Brexit choices. At least Truss recognised the approach to immigration was not going to work for her project, leading to Braverman’s ‘temporary’ departure. Yet another classic example of the inherent contradictions behind Tory and Right wing thinking the last 12yrs.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
David Giles
David Giles
1 year ago

“.. there is a good chance your Christmas stocking included the recent biography of Liz Truss.”
If you’re, say, a reader in Modern History who still leads groups called ‘Yes to Europe’ and desperately need to get a life, then yes, there is a very good chance it did.

David Giles
David Giles
1 year ago

“.. there is a good chance your Christmas stocking included the recent biography of Liz Truss.”
If you’re, say, a reader in Modern History who still leads groups called ‘Yes to Europe’ and desperately need to get a life, then yes, there is a very good chance it did.

Margaret Donaldson
Margaret Donaldson
1 year ago

The opening paragraphs of this article are very witty, that’s a big plus. It’s worth pointing out that 45 percent of the declining party membership did NOT vote for Liz Truss. It wasn’t a huge majority so a wiser politician might not have acted so radically.

Margaret Donaldson
Margaret Donaldson
1 year ago

The opening paragraphs of this article are very witty, that’s a big plus. It’s worth pointing out that 45 percent of the declining party membership did NOT vote for Liz Truss. It wasn’t a huge majority so a wiser politician might not have acted so radically.