David Cameron may have hugged a huskie in 2006. But he was thinking differently in 2013. Credit: Andrew Parsons/PA/Pool/Reuters

If you take the long view, the biggest and, perhaps, only real story of the 21st Century is the changing climate. Given the potential consequences for humanity if the average temperature of our planet rises by 3 or 4 degrees, who really cares about the small print of Britain’s relationship with its nearest European neighbours or whatever? And when — if — historians look back on this decade in the context of climate change, they may well identify 2013 as the year that demonstrated how maintaining political support for policies meant to avert environmental disaster was perilously difficult and perhaps even impossible.
The key figures in the history lesson are none other than David Cameron and Ed Milliband. From here, it looks as if history will remember Cameron as the gentleman amateur who bet — and lost — Britain’s EU membership on his own charm, and Miliband — if it remembers him at all — as the Labour leader who buried Blairism and helped keep his party out of office for a decade.
In fact, both men did things in 2013 that tell us a lot about how the politics and economics of “Net Zero” would play out. Net Zero has, with remarkably little debate, moved from a fringe demand to a mainstream and almost universal political commitment. But the story of 2013 should raise questions about how durable the new consensus will be.
Start with Cameron and his environmental journey. Possibly the first thing Cameron did as Conservative leader in opposition was go to the Arctic and pose with sledge-dogs. The hapless huskies were part of his “vote blue, go green” schtick, using environmentalism to “decontaminate” a Conservative brand that a certain T May had described as “nasty”. But that was 2006. What about 2013?
Well, 2013 was the year that a “senior Conservative source” told a couple of newspaper reporters over a nice lunch in Westminster that Prime Minister Cameron had given a clear order to his ministers regarding energy bills: “Get rid of all that green crap.”
To be clear, I was not one of the reporters at lunch that day, so I cannot swear to the accuracy of that quote. But I don’t know if anyone has asked Sir Michael Fallon, then the energy minister, where he was at the time that nice lunch was taking place; perhaps he has an alibi. Perhaps.
Anyway, let’s assume — and this isn’t much of a stretch, trust me — that Cameron had indeed said something about “green crap” to his colleagues. That remark signals the end of Cameron’s environmental journey — which covered a lot of ground, but came to its conclusion rapidly.
Back in the happy, almost innocent days of 2006, greenery was, Cameron fairly calculated, a nice-to-have add-on to a politician’s offer. Saying you cared about huskies and icecaps was a way to say you were generous and decent. And that was about it. Greenery didn’t obviously entail any actual policies that would directly affect voters’ lives.
Of course, even before Cameron took office in 2010, he had started to learn that it wasn’t that simple. Greenery then meant onshore wind: turbines, often in places where Conservative voters really didn’t want them to be.
Still, that didn’t bother everyone. What bothered just about everyone in the early years of the decade was the cost of living: after the financial crisis, real wages were falling and household bills were political. Bills for things such as gas and electricity.
And one reason those bills were as high as they were was the range of environmental tariffs that the Cameron coalition and its Labour predecessor had added on. The rationale here had seemed clear enough: there were many things that governments wanted to achieve and someone had to pay for them. General taxation wasn’t an attractive option — initially too visible, and then simply impossible given the state of the public finances. So consumers had to foot the bill.
Or rather, the bills: the energy company obligation, to support energy efficiency in poorer households; the warm homes discount, meant to help with the costs of fuel bills, again for poorer households; the renewable obligation, the EU’s emissions trading scheme; the carbon price floor; the feed-in tariffs; the smart meters. All told, the Cameron government reckoned, they added £114 to the typical bill.
And in 2013, with people feeling the pinch, £114 was all it took to turn David Cameron, husky-hugging vote-blue go-green David Cameron, into a potty-mouthed pocket-book politician, intent on saving voters money not saving the planet.
So the first part of the environmental policy lesson of 2013 is that green promises sound good when they’re first made, but sticking with them when they turn into financial pain for the electorate is far from easy. Remember Cameron’s “green crap” when you hear his successors talking about when they’ll take the country to Net Zero, and ask: who’s going to pay for that, and who’s going to tell them they’re going to pay?
The Miliband of 2013 completes the lesson about energy policy, populism and policy. At the Labour conference in September of that year, he announced that if he were made PM in 2015, he would enact a legal freeze on domestic energy prices.
For all the excitement the announcement caused — more on that in a moment — the plan wasn’t really so radical or startling. The year before, that notorious radical socialist Sir John Major had called for a windfall tax on the profits of the energy industry.
The Miliband promise caused something approaching chaos inside the Conservative Party. I was the Telegraph’s political editor at the time and at the Tory conference the following week I did my rounds of breakfasts, lunches, dinners and drinks with Cabinet ministers. I found precisely no unity on how to respond to the price freeze promise. Some were outraged by the idea of the state trying to “fix” markets. Some thought the energy firms were a bad advertisement for capitalism and making profits that were not economically justified. And some just thought the Miliband policy would be popular so the Tories should match it.
In the end, Cameron came out against a price freeze — it was simply not something a Conservative could ever do, he thought. But nothing is forever in politics, and less than four years later, another Conservative leader, May, decided that Toryism was flexible enough to accommodate a price cap for energy.
Remember, in all this, that some of the bills Miliband — and May — promised to limit were driven upwards, in some part, by the environmental policies they pursued and decided that customers should fund.
The year 2013 matters so much because it offers several connected lessons for the politicians promising to lead us on the journey to Net Zero. The first is that few political promises survive first contact with voters’ falling incomes. The second is that if you’re going to do things that cost voters money, best to get their permission first — because they’ll find out in the end, and when they do, they won’t be happy. And the third is that anyone who hopes to rely politically on “market forces” to allocate the resources needed to address big issues like climate change is taking a very big gamble indeed.
Now that he’s settled into Downing Street for five years — or, who knows, 10 — it will fall to Boris Johnson to learn these lessons; getting to Net Zero by the middle of the decade will require the 2020s to be a decade of genuine transformation. So far on the environment, Johnson has belied the charges of cheap populism levelled at him elsewhere, sticking with Net Zero as a promised goal. But right now, the politics of the environment are still relatively easy: commit to a goal still many years away and if in doubt, talk about photogenic distractions like turtles and pangolins.
But if he goes the distance and approaches a decade in office, he will either have to find a way to solve the green political riddle that defied Cameron, or admit defeat, just as his old school chum did.
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SubscribeTrump may have his failings, but at least he has a functioning brain, and he actually has some love for his country. And ours…
I must say I would rather see a different two candidates, come the time, but if the contest is to be between these two, then it must surely be Trump that will win. And a good thing too.
From the other side it is not clear that Trump has any love for anything but his own ego. One episode says it all: Trump showing top secret military plans to random guests simply to brag about how important he is. Biden may be a fairly unimpressive president, but at lest he (or maybe his handlers) is unlikely to jump into a total disaster for a random reason. I can only wish one could say the same for Trump.
I have to disagree. Biden is vulnerable to two important things.
First, extortion. This kind of thing gives those foreign interests the ability to blackmail him.
Second, if true, the allegations mean that he has sold US foreign policy for personal gain and/or that he has used US foreign policy to extort money from foreign countries and businesses.
The risks that this pose to national security and to US foreign relations is astronomical.
If you have ever gone through the process for a security clearance, as I have multiple times as I work with DoD and hold a TS-SCI, you know the questions asked on the eQIP are designed to dig into EXACTLY the kinds of things that Joe Biden seems to have been/is engaged in. Joe would NEVER pass even a SECRET clearance, probably not even a Public Trust clearance, were it not for the fact that he is an elected official.
As for his patriotism, his actions and those of his son would appear to demonstrate that any patriotism they show is feigned and ultimately geared to do nothing but keep them in power long enough to get very wealthy and protected from prosecution. They are narcissists.
Trump may be a narcissist too, and an ahole to boot, but at least his policies were aligned with the best interests of the country. The difference between a liberal and a conservative is that the liberal will support the wrong policy if it is done for, what is in their opinion, the right reasons by a nice person, the conservative will support an ahole who pushes the right policies for the wrong reasons.
You probably know more than I, but it does not sound convincing. Trump is on record threatening to withhold help from Ukraine (back before the war) unless they give him some dirt on his enemies. Biden sounds more like the (regrettably common and time-honored) practice of selling access to lobbyists. Arguably any politician taking donations from outside interests is corrupt – but by that standard that would include any US politician who depends on campaign donations. Which is all of them, bar the billionaires.
Trump? What about Biden on TV cameras actually laughing about his withholding $1B in foreign aid until Ukrainians fired the prosecutor investigating Burisma, where his son was being paid $83k per month as a director? See if for yourself:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4820105/user-clip-biden-tells-story-ukraine-prosecutor-fired
To be fair, Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in aid if the prosecutor going after Burisma was not fired.
Cite your source
Cite your source
It is interesting that Trump was asking about the EXACT stuff that is now coming out about Biden. In short, he was asking for the truth about another corrupt politician who used US foreign policy and tax dollars to extort money from a foreign company.
Biden DID precisely what everyone was afraid that Trump WOULD do.
Trump, as president, had every right and every reason to legitimately ask about crimes committed by a US government official. That he hoped to benefit from that is not really relevant. I would compare it to a racist cop that pulls over a black guy for doing 70 in a 50 zone. If he was really doing 70 then the cop was within his rights to pull him over regardless of whether or not he enjoyed it as a racist. It may be gross, but it is legal.
Now, if Trump had asked them to drum up fake stuff that would have been different, but that is NOT what he did.
I am convinced that that second impeachment was an attempt by the democrats to innoculate Biden from what has been known for years but is only now getting the attention it deserves. And I suspect that it would not be coming out even now were it not for the fact that the democrats would like Biden to step down for another candidate because he is losing in the polls to Trump and that the republicans have been forcing the issue in congress.
Would you not say that Biden, as president, has every right and reason to legitimately ask about crimes (such as trying to override the election result, fomenting insurrection, mishandling classified information, and financial crimes) committed by a former president? That he hopes to benefit is surely not relevant here either?
I am not saying that Trump is necessrily guilty, any more than Biden necessarily is, just that the your argument works just as well on the other side. I find it strange that you support Trumps legal actions so strongly at the same time as you blithely dismiss Bidens.
No insurrection was fomented…
No insurrection was fomented…
Would you not say that Biden, as president, has every right and reason to legitimately ask about crimes (such as trying to override the election result, fomenting insurrection, mishandling classified information, and financial crimes) committed by a former president? That he hopes to benefit is surely not relevant here either?
I am not saying that Trump is necessrily guilty, any more than Biden necessarily is, just that the your argument works just as well on the other side. I find it strange that you support Trumps legal actions so strongly at the same time as you blithely dismiss Bidens.
The dirt on his enemy was Biden’s move to have Ukraine remove the prosecutor who was investigating the company that his son was on the board of; getting paid 50k a month having zero experience in the profession. Trump wanted that to be looked at.
Trump? What about Biden on TV cameras actually laughing about his withholding $1B in foreign aid until Ukrainians fired the prosecutor investigating Burisma, where his son was being paid $83k per month as a director? See if for yourself:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4820105/user-clip-biden-tells-story-ukraine-prosecutor-fired
To be fair, Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in aid if the prosecutor going after Burisma was not fired.
It is interesting that Trump was asking about the EXACT stuff that is now coming out about Biden. In short, he was asking for the truth about another corrupt politician who used US foreign policy and tax dollars to extort money from a foreign company.
Biden DID precisely what everyone was afraid that Trump WOULD do.
Trump, as president, had every right and every reason to legitimately ask about crimes committed by a US government official. That he hoped to benefit from that is not really relevant. I would compare it to a racist cop that pulls over a black guy for doing 70 in a 50 zone. If he was really doing 70 then the cop was within his rights to pull him over regardless of whether or not he enjoyed it as a racist. It may be gross, but it is legal.
Now, if Trump had asked them to drum up fake stuff that would have been different, but that is NOT what he did.
I am convinced that that second impeachment was an attempt by the democrats to innoculate Biden from what has been known for years but is only now getting the attention it deserves. And I suspect that it would not be coming out even now were it not for the fact that the democrats would like Biden to step down for another candidate because he is losing in the polls to Trump and that the republicans have been forcing the issue in congress.
The dirt on his enemy was Biden’s move to have Ukraine remove the prosecutor who was investigating the company that his son was on the board of; getting paid 50k a month having zero experience in the profession. Trump wanted that to be looked at.
Excellent post but probably would have been even better without the last par!
So what kind of things foreign things make him vulnerable to extortion? Does he owe huge debts to foreign banks like Trump. Has paraded around secret docs like Trump? Does he consider dictators his friends like Trump? Has he paid off hookers like Trump? Has he filed for bankrupcies like Trump. Your second point is meaningless unless there is evidence, which there isnt like Barisma, false birth certificates and Benghazi.
Comment of the day.
You probably know more than I, but it does not sound convincing. Trump is on record threatening to withhold help from Ukraine (back before the war) unless they give him some dirt on his enemies. Biden sounds more like the (regrettably common and time-honored) practice of selling access to lobbyists. Arguably any politician taking donations from outside interests is corrupt – but by that standard that would include any US politician who depends on campaign donations. Which is all of them, bar the billionaires.
Excellent post but probably would have been even better without the last par!
So what kind of things foreign things make him vulnerable to extortion? Does he owe huge debts to foreign banks like Trump. Has paraded around secret docs like Trump? Does he consider dictators his friends like Trump? Has he paid off hookers like Trump? Has he filed for bankrupcies like Trump. Your second point is meaningless unless there is evidence, which there isnt like Barisma, false birth certificates and Benghazi.
Comment of the day.
Are you aware of how a piece of information becomes “top secret” in the first place? And if the duly elected President of the United States is not in a position to declare this information as not “top secret”, who on earth would be?
For all we know, this “top secret” information that was so recklessly shared could have been the plumbers bill for fixing toilets at an army base somewhere. Keep watching CNN for more on how wonderful and honest Joe Biden is and how orange man is bad.
Are you aware that he didn’t declassify them? And are you aware that there is a process in place to do so? No President can just say the words and its done. His own adminstation has stated that. What I stated has nothing to do with CNN. Stop deflecting. Facts: He was indicted for his obvisious crimes, and the evidence is overwhelming. To compare that loser who lost the popular vote twice, impreached twice, multple bankruptcies, raped charge, prostitution payoffs, failed business, insurrectionist to ANY president is laughable.
Are you aware that he didn’t declassify them? And are you aware that there is a process in place to do so? No President can just say the words and its done. His own adminstation has stated that. What I stated has nothing to do with CNN. Stop deflecting. Facts: He was indicted for his obvisious crimes, and the evidence is overwhelming. To compare that loser who lost the popular vote twice, impreached twice, multple bankruptcies, raped charge, prostitution payoffs, failed business, insurrectionist to ANY president is laughable.
Joe Biden IS a total disaster, as has been abundantly confirmed by his administration’s policy missteps (energy policy, Afghanistan debacle), his cabinet appointments, and his long history of grifting, which is finally being exposed.
Trump is egotistical and polarizing but he’s not been up to his eyeballs in influence peddling, as this unfolding scandal clearly points to.
The economy is doing great. Afghanistan was painful but had to pull that band aid off. Energy is doing greate(you are very wrong on that one) Manufacturing is great. Inflation is down, GDP growth is awesome. Stock Market Up 8% ytd. So yeah! pretty good. .
The economy is doing great. Afghanistan was painful but had to pull that band aid off. Energy is doing greate(you are very wrong on that one) Manufacturing is great. Inflation is down, GDP growth is awesome. Stock Market Up 8% ytd. So yeah! pretty good. .
They are both deeply flawed for many reasons. It’s a sad state of affairs when these are the candidates presented to Americans.
I would likely vote GOP regardless, not that I have any love for Republicans. The Dems have somehow created this dangerous stranglehold on all the institutions – the media, the bureaucracy, academia, the security state, arts, culture, corporations – and this is truly dangerous to democracy.
Healthy democracy requires divergent thought amongst the institutions.
You trying to equivocate Trump with ANY president is silly. And of course you would vote Republican. There is ZERO data that support the claim Rs are better than Ds. D states on avg are safer, more financially balanced, healthier, more educated than R states. On a POTUS level Ds have outperformed Rs on every economic/ quality of life metric for the last 50 yrs. But hey hang on to your identity politics.
You trying to equivocate Trump with ANY president is silly. And of course you would vote Republican. There is ZERO data that support the claim Rs are better than Ds. D states on avg are safer, more financially balanced, healthier, more educated than R states. On a POTUS level Ds have outperformed Rs on every economic/ quality of life metric for the last 50 yrs. But hey hang on to your identity politics.
I have to disagree. Biden is vulnerable to two important things.
First, extortion. This kind of thing gives those foreign interests the ability to blackmail him.
Second, if true, the allegations mean that he has sold US foreign policy for personal gain and/or that he has used US foreign policy to extort money from foreign countries and businesses.
The risks that this pose to national security and to US foreign relations is astronomical.
If you have ever gone through the process for a security clearance, as I have multiple times as I work with DoD and hold a TS-SCI, you know the questions asked on the eQIP are designed to dig into EXACTLY the kinds of things that Joe Biden seems to have been/is engaged in. Joe would NEVER pass even a SECRET clearance, probably not even a Public Trust clearance, were it not for the fact that he is an elected official.
As for his patriotism, his actions and those of his son would appear to demonstrate that any patriotism they show is feigned and ultimately geared to do nothing but keep them in power long enough to get very wealthy and protected from prosecution. They are narcissists.
Trump may be a narcissist too, and an ahole to boot, but at least his policies were aligned with the best interests of the country. The difference between a liberal and a conservative is that the liberal will support the wrong policy if it is done for, what is in their opinion, the right reasons by a nice person, the conservative will support an ahole who pushes the right policies for the wrong reasons.
Are you aware of how a piece of information becomes “top secret” in the first place? And if the duly elected President of the United States is not in a position to declare this information as not “top secret”, who on earth would be?
For all we know, this “top secret” information that was so recklessly shared could have been the plumbers bill for fixing toilets at an army base somewhere. Keep watching CNN for more on how wonderful and honest Joe Biden is and how orange man is bad.
Joe Biden IS a total disaster, as has been abundantly confirmed by his administration’s policy missteps (energy policy, Afghanistan debacle), his cabinet appointments, and his long history of grifting, which is finally being exposed.
Trump is egotistical and polarizing but he’s not been up to his eyeballs in influence peddling, as this unfolding scandal clearly points to.
They are both deeply flawed for many reasons. It’s a sad state of affairs when these are the candidates presented to Americans.
I would likely vote GOP regardless, not that I have any love for Republicans. The Dems have somehow created this dangerous stranglehold on all the institutions – the media, the bureaucracy, academia, the security state, arts, culture, corporations – and this is truly dangerous to democracy.
Healthy democracy requires divergent thought amongst the institutions.
From the other side it is not clear that Trump has any love for anything but his own ego. One episode says it all: Trump showing top secret military plans to random guests simply to brag about how important he is. Biden may be a fairly unimpressive president, but at lest he (or maybe his handlers) is unlikely to jump into a total disaster for a random reason. I can only wish one could say the same for Trump.
Trump may have his failings, but at least he has a functioning brain, and he actually has some love for his country. And ours…
I must say I would rather see a different two candidates, come the time, but if the contest is to be between these two, then it must surely be Trump that will win. And a good thing too.
Truth Matters. ‘Nuff said.
The truth shall set you free. John 8:32
Suppressing the truth is like holding a cork underwater – a moment of inattention and it just pops back up. Legacy media just don’t seem to understand that.
The truth shall set you free. John 8:32
Suppressing the truth is like holding a cork underwater – a moment of inattention and it just pops back up. Legacy media just don’t seem to understand that.
Truth Matters. ‘Nuff said.
Hagiographers for their own side and demonisers for the the other side. A polarisation that damages democracy but sells newspapers and broadcasts.
Agreed. Journalism completely went out the window over a decade ago. There are no objective journalists left.
There are plenty of great journalists still out there. Unfortunately, they won’t be found in the regime media. Taibbi, Greenwald and Weiss are just a few of the names.
What’s frightening is that everyone on the left has never heard of these people. People on the left, and most independents, still rely on the regime media for their news consumption – not understanding these media outlets are there to serve the establishment, not their customers.
Taibbi a great journalist? LOL! Watch this clown back track on what he said and studder when he is confronted. Just another example of what a joke and the hypocrisy going around here. Dont take my word for it watch it:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1644066353760948244
Taibbi a great journalist? LOL! Watch this clown back track on what he said and studder when he is confronted. Just another example of what a joke and the hypocrisy going around here. Dont take my word for it watch it:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1644066353760948244
There are plenty of great journalists still out there. Unfortunately, they won’t be found in the regime media. Taibbi, Greenwald and Weiss are just a few of the names.
What’s frightening is that everyone on the left has never heard of these people. People on the left, and most independents, still rely on the regime media for their news consumption – not understanding these media outlets are there to serve the establishment, not their customers.
Agreed. Journalism completely went out the window over a decade ago. There are no objective journalists left.
Hagiographers for their own side and demonisers for the the other side. A polarisation that damages democracy but sells newspapers and broadcasts.
The Democrats have been very happy to throw the first stone at Trump. What goes round comes around.
Trump screwed himself. Hes on tape asking for vote. Hes on tape asking a foreign county to find dirt on his opponent for a favor. Hes on tape asking for 11870 votes He’s on tape parading around classified document that he certified he already returned.
Trump screwed himself. Hes on tape asking for vote. Hes on tape asking a foreign county to find dirt on his opponent for a favor. Hes on tape asking for 11870 votes He’s on tape parading around classified document that he certified he already returned.
The Democrats have been very happy to throw the first stone at Trump. What goes round comes around.
why did Hunter have a trail of secret service (counted 6 autos) as if he were the president. Tax dollars at work! Justice? I won’t hold my breath!
Cite your source.
Give your name or f**k off, anonymous troll.
Give your name or f**k off, anonymous troll.
Cite your source.
why did Hunter have a trail of secret service (counted 6 autos) as if he were the president. Tax dollars at work! Justice? I won’t hold my breath!
yes we already know that the American mainstream media has become intensely partisan.
That’s why outlets like Unherd are good
yes we already know that the American mainstream media has become intensely partisan.
That’s why outlets like Unherd are good
Somebody forgot to tell the judge that this was a work.
‘Prosecutors and Hunter Biden’s attorneys also clashed over whether the agreement would protect the president’s son from additional charges in the future.’
Tell the judge to sign Hunter Biden’s ‘Get out of jail free cards’ and we can all go home.
Somebody forgot to tell the judge that this was a work.
‘Prosecutors and Hunter Biden’s attorneys also clashed over whether the agreement would protect the president’s son from additional charges in the future.’
Tell the judge to sign Hunter Biden’s ‘Get out of jail free cards’ and we can all go home.
Neither party is deserving of power. The two party system has to be abolished.
It’s time for PR in the UK, I would say
False Equivalency
Stop trying to equate the repugnate party with the Ds. There is no comparison.
It’s time for PR in the UK, I would say
False Equivalency
Stop trying to equate the repugnate party with the Ds. There is no comparison.
Neither party is deserving of power. The two party system has to be abolished.
Thank God that the U.S. still has an independent judiciary, one in which judges can smell a rat in the plea bargains designed by clever lawyers for their rich and famous clients. We are a nation of laws, and however flawed those laws or their application may be, they are a bulwark against the kind of legal thuggery running countries like Russia and Belarus.
Sir Thomas More said it best:
https://youtu.be/PDBiLT3LASk
Thank God that the U.S. still has an independent judiciary, one in which judges can smell a rat in the plea bargains designed by clever lawyers for their rich and famous clients. We are a nation of laws, and however flawed those laws or their application may be, they are a bulwark against the kind of legal thuggery running countries like Russia and Belarus.
Sir Thomas More said it best:
https://youtu.be/PDBiLT3LASk
Young Biden goes to jail. Okd Trump.goes to jail. Then we can move on
And what is to become of at-death’s-door Biden, may I ask?
He goes to Hell?
So do you
So do you
He goes to Hell?
And what is to become of at-death’s-door Biden, may I ask?
Young Biden goes to jail. Okd Trump.goes to jail. Then we can move on
The only ones listening are conservatives. The rest trust legacy media and will remain blissfully ignorant.
Well dang it. When did he win an election? I missed that!
You know it’s possible to hate trump and the republicans and still think Biden is a cleptocrat.
Jim, do you think Biden did all this by himself? What power or group is actually running his Administration? Will this hidden mysterious cabal oversee free and fair elections?
Speaking of “free and fair elections”….you see your boy Rudy Giuliani admitted he lied about the 2 election officials? That’s what you call fair?….Maybe you just upset they couldn’t find 11870 votes o
in GA as Trump asked for, which he will be in front of a judge for soon.
Geez. Typical Dem talking points. He didn’t admit to anything. It was a legal procedure. And I’m not making judgement on his guilt or innocence. But he didn’t admit guilt to anything.
Jeez…ok…here’s the statement…
“[Giuliani] does not contest that … such actionable factual statements are false,” his lawyers wrote in the signed filing. Despite the admission, Giuliani, 79, insisted that he should not be found liable because the statements “did not carry meaning that is defamatory, per se” and that they are “constitutionally protected statements or opinions”.
You missed some key text where the … are located;
“…does not dispute for purposes of this litigation…”
Again, I’m not passing judgement on his guilt or innocence. He probably is guilty. I really don’t care. But this is a legal maneuver, not an admission of guilt.
That the regime media decides to pass over key text in the filing says everything we need to know.
He did…Again “Giuliani, 79, insisted that he should not be found liable because the statements “did not carry meaning that is defamatory ” thats admission. And you are passive aggressively defending him. The fact you did so twice clearly shows you do care
What I care about is the regime media spitting in our face and lying to us. There’s a reason the media chose to omit those eight words. They wouldn’t do it otherwise. Fox News lies to us about the Republicans. CNN, NBC, the New York Times and Washington Post do it for the Democrats. You’re free to believe whatever you like, about me and Giuliani, but please remember what little regard they have for you when they omit those eight words.
You talking about the “media” that had to pay almost a BILLION dollars for lying? That media? LOL..smh
You talking about the “media” that had to pay almost a BILLION dollars for lying? That media? LOL..smh
What I care about is the regime media spitting in our face and lying to us. There’s a reason the media chose to omit those eight words. They wouldn’t do it otherwise. Fox News lies to us about the Republicans. CNN, NBC, the New York Times and Washington Post do it for the Democrats. You’re free to believe whatever you like, about me and Giuliani, but please remember what little regard they have for you when they omit those eight words.
He did…Again “Giuliani, 79, insisted that he should not be found liable because the statements “did not carry meaning that is defamatory ” thats admission. And you are passive aggressively defending him. The fact you did so twice clearly shows you do care
You missed some key text where the … are located;
“…does not dispute for purposes of this litigation…”
Again, I’m not passing judgement on his guilt or innocence. He probably is guilty. I really don’t care. But this is a legal maneuver, not an admission of guilt.
That the regime media decides to pass over key text in the filing says everything we need to know.
Jeez…ok…here’s the statement…
“[Giuliani] does not contest that … such actionable factual statements are false,” his lawyers wrote in the signed filing. Despite the admission, Giuliani, 79, insisted that he should not be found liable because the statements “did not carry meaning that is defamatory, per se” and that they are “constitutionally protected statements or opinions”.
Geez. Typical Dem talking points. He didn’t admit to anything. It was a legal procedure. And I’m not making judgement on his guilt or innocence. But he didn’t admit guilt to anything.
Speaking of “free and fair elections”….you see your boy Rudy Giuliani admitted he lied about the 2 election officials? That’s what you call fair?….Maybe you just upset they couldn’t find 11870 votes o
in GA as Trump asked for, which he will be in front of a judge for soon.
Did I mention Trump? NO! Speaking of “cleptocrat” and Trump.How much you think Trump made for forcing government officials to stay at his hotels while he was in office? Which is easily confirmed and against the law? One of many of his crimes!
If you think Hunter isn’t selling access to his father, you’re delusional.
Trump is awful too. Almost all of them are corrupt, from both parties. None of them will vote to stop stock purchases. Corruption is endemic to the American political system. What’s your point?
What facts do you have to support your claim? NONE. But hey you “don’t care” as you stated, but you clearly do AND deny facts and rely on your bias as proof. You want to see Biden as guilty , but somehow Trump and his cronies are presumed innocent even when they say they are not. Simply delusional…smh
Sure I want to see Biden found guilty – because he’s a dirty, corrupt, kleptocrat. Trump is too. Trump is also a narcissistic sociopath. The big difference is Biden has the DOJ and the regime media to protect him. Trump doesn’t. You’re free to project some bias on my part, but I would have considered myself a Democrat 10 years ago.
Ah so now you have a lttle steel to tell the truth. Tell me again what facts do you have to show Biden is dirty and currupt? Name them?
There are a few drips – and I’d love to hear how someone clearly on the Democratic side explains them:
Hunter Biden clearly got those well-paid board posts because someone at least thought that it would get them credit or access with Biden.
I seem to remember seeing that a number of other Bidens, Beau’s widow, uncles (but not Joe) were involved in the companies of Hunter. That makes it harder to explain away as a completely isolated effort by a single troubled man. Is that correct?
If the plea deal did indeed give blanket immunity for unspecified other crimes, that does sound a bit like there is something to hide. I do not know how that explanation fits with the US justice system (and, of course, the judge was a Trump appointee). Do you have a take on that?
The outside impression would be that Biden is no more corrupt than is usual for a US senator who has to rely on huge campaign contributions, so that the republican outrage is somewhat manufactured, one might say. But what is your take?
There are a few drips – and I’d love to hear how someone clearly on the Democratic side explains them:
Hunter Biden clearly got those well-paid board posts because someone at least thought that it would get them credit or access with Biden.
I seem to remember seeing that a number of other Bidens, Beau’s widow, uncles (but not Joe) were involved in the companies of Hunter. That makes it harder to explain away as a completely isolated effort by a single troubled man. Is that correct?
If the plea deal did indeed give blanket immunity for unspecified other crimes, that does sound a bit like there is something to hide. I do not know how that explanation fits with the US justice system (and, of course, the judge was a Trump appointee). Do you have a take on that?
The outside impression would be that Biden is no more corrupt than is usual for a US senator who has to rely on huge campaign contributions, so that the republican outrage is somewhat manufactured, one might say. But what is your take?
This is not my fight. But one might argue that the most important difference between them is that Biden is *not* a narcissistic sociopath – by your own account – and therefore less likely to do enormous damage.
Trump might be deranged, but the Dems are much more dangerous. Trump has zero institutional power. The Dems have captured all the institutions, which no longer represent 50% of the population. Media, academia, arts, culture, corporations, bureaucrats, NGOs, all swing left, even though half the population is right. That’s not healthy for democracy.
On institutional capture you very much have a point. But Trump and his people are preparing for a second presidency where every federal appointee is known to be in favour of the invasion of Congress, and every federal employee can be fired if not sufficiently obedient (source: The Economist). If the entire Federal administration is personally loyal to the President – even if he is deranged, denying the facts, or saying without evidence that he won the election – Trump would have 100% institutional power. In fact you could argue that you would have a lack of transparency, feedback and control mechanisms like in Turkey or China, without even the the advantages of autocracy. Could you really accept to live under a president like Buttigieg or AOC with unlimited powers and complete personal control of the Federal adminstration? And if not , what would you have to do to make sure that the Demcrats never, ever, got back in power? The characteristics of a democratic system is that there are rules that both sides are willing to submit to. Which set do you propose?
On institutional capture you very much have a point. But Trump and his people are preparing for a second presidency where every federal appointee is known to be in favour of the invasion of Congress, and every federal employee can be fired if not sufficiently obedient (source: The Economist). If the entire Federal administration is personally loyal to the President – even if he is deranged, denying the facts, or saying without evidence that he won the election – Trump would have 100% institutional power. In fact you could argue that you would have a lack of transparency, feedback and control mechanisms like in Turkey or China, without even the the advantages of autocracy. Could you really accept to live under a president like Buttigieg or AOC with unlimited powers and complete personal control of the Federal adminstration? And if not , what would you have to do to make sure that the Demcrats never, ever, got back in power? The characteristics of a democratic system is that there are rules that both sides are willing to submit to. Which set do you propose?
Trump might be deranged, but the Dems are much more dangerous. Trump has zero institutional power. The Dems have captured all the institutions, which no longer represent 50% of the population. Media, academia, arts, culture, corporations, bureaucrats, NGOs, all swing left, even though half the population is right. That’s not healthy for democracy.
Ah so now you have a lttle steel to tell the truth. Tell me again what facts do you have to show Biden is dirty and currupt? Name them?
This is not my fight. But one might argue that the most important difference between them is that Biden is *not* a narcissistic sociopath – by your own account – and therefore less likely to do enormous damage.
Sure I want to see Biden found guilty – because he’s a dirty, corrupt, kleptocrat. Trump is too. Trump is also a narcissistic sociopath. The big difference is Biden has the DOJ and the regime media to protect him. Trump doesn’t. You’re free to project some bias on my part, but I would have considered myself a Democrat 10 years ago.
What facts do you have to support your claim? NONE. But hey you “don’t care” as you stated, but you clearly do AND deny facts and rely on your bias as proof. You want to see Biden as guilty , but somehow Trump and his cronies are presumed innocent even when they say they are not. Simply delusional…smh
If you think Hunter isn’t selling access to his father, you’re delusional.
Trump is awful too. Almost all of them are corrupt, from both parties. None of them will vote to stop stock purchases. Corruption is endemic to the American political system. What’s your point?
Jim, do you think Biden did all this by himself? What power or group is actually running his Administration? Will this hidden mysterious cabal oversee free and fair elections?
Did I mention Trump? NO! Speaking of “cleptocrat” and Trump.How much you think Trump made for forcing government officials to stay at his hotels while he was in office? Which is easily confirmed and against the law? One of many of his crimes!
You know it’s possible to hate trump and the republicans and still think Biden is a cleptocrat.
Well dang it. When did he win an election? I missed that!