Main Edition
US
FR
What is the Third Temple? This mysterious, ancient site in Jerusalem might be the catalyst for world war, writes UnHerd’s Giles Fraser. This week he joined Florence Read to take a deep dive into the religious history and precarious future of the Temple Mount.
Watch the full interview above.
Join the discussion
Join like minded readers that support our journalism by becoming a paid subscriber
To join the discussion in the comments, become a paid subscriber.
Join like minded readers that support our journalism, read unlimited articles and enjoy other subscriber-only benefits.
SubscribeThis was an interesting conversation, God hath foretold drama in Jerusalem, did He foresee human trouble or will it be divinely driven?
I was actually struck most by the completely secular impression of Giles, and his really arrogant dismissive attitudes towards American Christians. I’m one of those Christians and though I’m not anxious about the future of the Temple, I do think our faith compels us to consider it, take it seriously. Giles implies that this is not important in Christian teachings… perhaps he believes that Christians should simply content themselves with Hope Not Hate kinds of values.
Yes, I was also struck by his secular and dismissive attitude. I find Fraser’s articles usually more spiritual and inspiring. I think he speaks here more like a left leaning politician. Giles also might despise Trump and calls his claim bonkers, that God had saved him twice from assassination attempts. Why? Christians often claim, that they are spared a certain fate, because of Devine interventions, especially if you are a sinner or deeply flawed human being.
I also don’t know what polls about the US election he cited from, but I just looked up the recent Rasmussen poll, where a huge majority of Evangelical Christians intend to vote for Trump in November.
He speaks like a left wing politician because that’s, at his core, what he originally wanted to be. However, he lacked the courage for mainstream politics and chose instead the easier path of the church, which is still an inherently left wing organisation, but one where one doesn’t have to trouble oneself too much with voters.
..it takes “courage to work in mainstream media”?? What? Are you joking? It takes a lot of things (like being a liar, a sycophant, obedient, and a coward etc) but courage is the last thing you need. In fact it would automatically preclude you from mainstream media!
The term Evangelical Christian is an oxymoron.. you are either a Christian OR an Evangelical: one is diametrically opposed to the orher.
The term Christian derives from the word Christ, ie Jesus of Nazareth whose life and teachings are antithesis to Evangelical lunacy.
I am Jewish and I too felt his attitudes were dismissive and even insulting. Truth be told, if the coalition fails, Ben Gvir or Smotrich might just get the most votes.
On the other hand, Ms. Reed’s questions and observations, when she wasn’t laughing and delegitimizing Israel’s primacy with the Temple Mount, seemed approaching of a much deeper understanding of the ancient connections, which to the good Vicar, seem more illusive.
I object yo you describing yourself as a Christian.. of you’re an Evangelical please say so.. To be a true Christian you have to follow Christ’s teachings (hint is in the name!). If your belief system isr rooted in the OT then please call yourself Jewish, or whited sepulchre or something fitting that mindset. Jesus left us with just two Commandments: to Love God (not money, power etc.) and to Love others (not practice racist supremacy, hate etc)
Ancient wisdom of the West is being tested. Revolution in consciousness is happening. Has happened. Will continue to Happen. regardless of Geographic and Demographic circumstances. except the fact it is a question for each individual to answer themselves. rescue ourselves or destroy ourselves. I probably sympathise somewhat with who the interviewee was describing as “the theological brain dead”. But it’s good to see the Religious/Theological conversation explored and become part of the current zeitgeist.
Wonderful interview. What UnHerd does best.
I’m so glad that I finally had this subject thoroughly explained to me. Thanks to you both.
I wanted to comment directly on Giles’ interview but although I appear to be logged in and am a subscriber, I am being asked to subscribe before I can do so. So this is not actually a comment on Laurence’s post – sorry for any confusion. I do agree that it was a fascinating interview.
My comment is simply that this stuff has been around probably almost for ever! Years ago I learned that somewhere in the US they are trying to breed a pure red heifer – the Golan Heights is apparently another (likely more recent) attempt in Israeli illegally occupied territory. I even seem to remember that people had been caught trying to dye the stray non-red hairs on some poor beast!
In West Jerusalem 20 years ago, I visited The Third Temple Institute; I recall a model of the projected project. As one brought up in Fundamentalist Christianity, I knew a great deal about the Temple but I had never heard before that anyone was thinking of rebuilding it. So I was both astonished and worried that what seemed to me a crazy idea had any purchase. Giles, you’ve got me more worried!
Would the lack of a red heifer render the project unviable? In which case maybe those who pray should start praying for that project’s failure, preferably sooner rather than later. Which of course begs the question as to how a worthwhile permanent failure would be defined and recognised!
Giles Fraser is interesting for what he says and what he does not say. He looks forward to a Messianic Age. Don’t we all! The prophetic message of the Messiah as he looked across the Kidon Valley to the Temple Mount was a review of the history of the next 2000 years. It will be when Israel is about to wiped away, that Yeshua will return and redeem the nation, then they will say ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord’ See Matthew 23v37-ch 24. See also Romans ch 11v25ff.
The level of ignorance in the presentation is staggering. Judaic God did NOT live in the Temple because he is omnipresent. His presence with the people he made a covenant with was at the Temple for the ritual contact by priests. Islam’s claim was that the covenant with Jews was ended or compromised due to their wrong doings and it is the faithful Muslims who had a relationship with the God of Israel. This is why Mohammed ascended to heaven from the location of the holiest site in Judaism, the Temple Mount. Cultural appropriation, anyone? So what happens if Jews refuse to cede their relationship with God to the two largest Abrahamic religions, both of which have repeatedly attempted to destroy them or relegate them to second class citizens, while claiming to offer “corrected” alternatives to Judaic relationship with their Divinity? Both Christianity and Islam for 2000 years have kept Jewish settlement in the land of Israel to a minimum through restrictive laws and intermittent slaughter, what in today’s left lingo would be known as “colonizer”. In secular setting these are mere mythologies. But let’s not forget that the same can be said of international law and human rights and values of democratic institutions. People die most vigorously over mythologies.
I do recommend going to Jerusalem and seeing these places and getting the feel of the place. It is extraordinary.
Israel is an amazing country. Since Jews have been in control of the ancient sites in the Old City, the excavations document a rich history and the architectural marvels of Herod’s building accomplishments. Tours of the excavations are highly recommended.
I know what to expect of this apologist…. Ms. Reed ? We will see if you follow suit.
First weezle stance – Abraham asked to sacrifice “his son” … NO … It’s Isaac who God asks Abraham to sacrifice !!! The Ishmaelites have copied the story and substituted Ishmael who was born of a concubine. Jews wrote the story down first, long before the Ishmaelites even considered writing a Quran. Chronology, Man ! History !
Second, the good Vicar propagates what is tantamount to a lie. This begins at 3:55. The Al Aqsa Mosque (built between 685 and 715) is some distance from the Dome of the Rock which is the original site of Solomon’s Temple. I’m wondering if he will disclose that the Temple Mount is actually 37 acres plus or minus. And at minute 4:02, where a photo is presented at an angle that makes Al Aqsa look like part of the Dome of the rock. It’s only an adjacent Dome. Dome of the Rock is Byzantine at this point. I have read that it was dedicated by the builder to all faiths. This might make sense if the Muslims were indeed “respectful”.
And POW ! Minute 5 the hysterics come out .. WW3 ! WW3 ! NO …. there is AMPLE room to preserve Al Aqsa Mosque and rebuild a Jewish house of worship without touching Al Aqsa. It’s not even clear that Dome of the Rock needs to be a part of this. Even though the location is specific to Jewish history, two additional faiths have appropriated this history. Yes the location was conquered by Islam but it has been reconquered by Jews. These are facts.
I can’t even give the Vicar credit for stating the area of the Temple Mount … Ms. Reed says it at 5:12. And when he does say it he .. and the host … claim it as a “small” piece of land. I have news for the … this is plenty of room to share. And the fact that the rabbis forbid Jews to walk on it is … like many Jewish ‘rules’ …. being used against them when the proscription is one of respect. Furthermore, just as rabbinical Judaism replaced Temple sacrifice, a more robust Jew is becoming the norm in Israel and these Jews will not be ordered to stand away from the entire Temple Mount just because a small piece of it is arguably off limits. Rabbinical Judaism is not saving Jews from Hamas and Hezbollah rockets. Secular Judaism is is the norm and it is Secular Judaism or Defensive Judaism which is protecting Jews in Israel.
Shame on the vicar for using Moshe Dayan to claim that the Israeli flag should not fly over the Temple Mount. He should be praising Jews for their eccumenity. Again he uses a gesture of respect from Jews against them. 6:40.
And …. I’m losing count of the distortions … HIS CHRISTIAN theology is worried about the coming of the Messiah … RATHER the SECOND COMING of the Messiah. The only point he makes that is at all ‘real’ is that SOME people believe this is “God’s business”. Who are these people ? Jews primarily have the correct idea – this is God’s business. Jews have the duty to live and thrive in the land God gave us. This is far different than a Christian or Islamic outlook.
At 7:45 … Lie, lie, lie ! Yes, Maimonides says God tarries and this is the patient Orthodox viewpoint. WHO does he say want to blow up WHATEVER ? He’s rather unspecific in his accusations. “Interventionist Orthodox “???? Quite small in their niche. Hey there are only 15 million Jews in the world ! The same number as Jews in the world in 1940. Who are these “Interventionist Orthodox” and why does he believe they are such a minority ? Can he read minds ?
The vicar’s reference “Third Temple People” is a bit laughable. We’ve had sovereignty over the Land of Israel for just over 75 years and frankly, the Third Temple has been more of a boogeyman for the Arabs than any aspirational goal of the Jews. But hey ! Since it has become an issue, why not ? And no Vicar Fraser, no mosques need to be “blown up” … there are 37 acres to share. If Al Aqsa gets blown up it will likely be because it houses weapons to be used against Jews. Vicar, why don’t you focus on the Arabs and Muslims?
“In the context of the current conflict it’s hard to tell if the motivation is political or religious ?” (Minute 9.) So it’s acceptable for Hamas and Islam to want political domination of ALL of the Holy Land as a tenet of Islam but unacceptable to Jews so you need not only to parse it but to laugh while doing so ? And for the record, Vicar Fraser, proportional representation is called ‘democracy’, which is more than the Arabs will every understand. When will you hold THEM to account ? THEY are the imperialists, not the Jews !
“Celebrate life by returning life to God ?”11:46. NO Vicar, it is a ritual that sanctifies life. You are crude in your words, and if I might say, derivative of Judaism. Only Christians and Muslims would consider that death is a redemption of life. Even at their most fundamental Jews do not hold this view. As Ms. Reed might say, there is something redemptive about the religious nature of the events but these are retrospective and philosophical. They are not aspirational. Just as Moshe Dayan instructed soldiers to remove the Israeli flag from Temple Mount, we are not so arrogant as the Christians and Muslims. Jews are survivalists and we sanctify our own survival by thanking God for the redemption, just as we thank God every year at Passover.
“Apocalyptic fantasy scenario” ? 13:31. You mean like the sacrificial mass that feeds little bits of Jesus and his blood to the parishioners? Could you be more rude ? Could you delegitimize Judaism any more bluntly ? You are like children making fun of a great grandparent.
15:31 How do you have the nerve to parse the meaning of Zionism as a “safe place for the Jews” versus a redemptive project? Don’t you understand these are one and the same ? How dare you? On the one hand you will bash Jews for not being religious enough and then you bash us for being too religious. First you say OK you can be “safe” but just don’t be “too safe” …. UNBELIEVABLE !
16:35 Vicar you almost, just almost forgive us Jews for our diversity before Oct. 7 by invoking the challenge we represent as a people unique but varied in opinion. Yes, we are secular and yet hopelessly intellectual and religious, so why can you not forgive us this mosaic? I believe this is your envy speaking. Christians may be one in brotherhood but never in blood and nation. Jews were first. Jews experience Primacy, not necessarily Supremacy. But we are careful enough to know our small place on the planet and that, is Israel. We know where we were 3,000 years ago and even 5,000 years ago. And we knew what we were, ans ARE. Children of Abraham.
18:26, How dare you liken Ben Gvir and Smotrich with Rabin’s assassin? Apocalyptic fiction and mad scenarios of political revenge are what you do ? Salacious and mad !
21:25, yes Ms. Reed, Europe is becoming more conservative. You can thank Israel for the stirring of Islam to radicalism so that the sleeping and sodden Christians of Europe can actually see the danger you have allowed into your countries. The Christians are stirring to see just what they have lost and given up. You didn’t learn your morals from killing 6 million Jews, but you WILL learn from necessity of violence in the face of Islam. Or, in your earlier words, the religious expression of violence. Now YOU will learn survival, so please just leave Israelis alone to attend to THEIR own survival.
21:50. Evangelism ? End times ? Well you said it. Will the blood-lusting Lion of Islam lay down with the peace-loving Lamb of Jews and Christians ?
22:40, Barking ? Vicar YOU are barking ! Ben Gvir is only speaking of praying on the Temple Mount. Ben Gvir is not promoting violence. For your information VIcar, I am an American Jew who went inside the Dome of the Rock with my husband and young son in 1995 while Temple Mount was under Israeli control. No Jew will have been admitted under the Muslims. So who do you think is preaching violence ? The Muslims, that is who.
On the one hand this interview makes me very sad and very angry because your thinking has clearly been captured by Muslim apologists, the UN, Jewish apologists, and globalists. Your imagination, which would be a gift from God were you actually using it, is stunted by your “knowledge”. At a maximum, God gave Al Aqsa to the Muslims. The Rock is central to the Temple Mount and Al Aqsa was built at a time when Islam had more connection and perhaps more reverence for Jews and their shared history. Today there is no such respect evident, and even YOU Vicar, a representative of Christianity, disparages “sharing” as some kind of cynical “inclusion” politics.
Today there is no respect for Judaism in Islamic politics, and Vicar Fraser might do better to focus on this aspect of the crisis. If he is a Christian then he understands that God gave the land of Israel to Jews. Maybe it is his arrogance that gets in the way of seeing this reality and he can only see demand to pray on Temple . Christianity will never be First in God’s history unless he believes it to be aspirational to being absorbed into B’nai Israel as Jews absorbed other remnants on the Exodus. As so many innocent missionaries have said to me, “I’m Baptist, but also Jewish!”. VIcar, convert to Judaism and look at it from our side of the problem.
I truly don’t understand why you invited Giles Fraser, a nominally Christian public figure to enlighten us on a deeply Orthodox Jewish topic. Why would I be interested in his take on this topic? BORING to say the least.
He has a Jewish wife and relatives in Israel