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FRLia Williams plays Paula Vennells in 'Mr Bates vs The Post Office'. (Credit: ITV/ITV Studios)
Some years ago, Archbishop Justin Welby’s predecessor, Rowan Williams, was asked to name his favourite sound on Radio 4’s Today programme. He recorded the noise of gentle chatter in his local post office, that low hum of community interaction in which people were asking after each other, and passing the time of day as they picked up their pensions or posted a letter. This is a place in which the Church has long been naturally at home.
The postmaster, like the vicar and the publican, has historically created a kind of tapestry out of individual, sometimes rather lonely, human lives. Through the wonderful alchemy of community, it is capable of transforming them into something immeasurably more worthwhile. But in the first half of last year, pubs were closing at a rate of two a day. Churches are being shut down by the very people who are supposed to be keeping them open. In 2000, nearly a million people went to a Church of England service on a Sunday; by 2022, that figure fell to 549,000. And, as all of us have learned this January if we didn’t know already, for the past two decades the Post Office has been driving its own employees into the ground.
The Church has become intertwined in this scandal in more than symbolic ways however, through the figure of Rev. Paula Vennells, first ordained as a deacon in 2005 and CEO of the Post Office from 2012 to 2019. She is now personally and nominally tied to one of our century’s great miscarriages of justice. And I imagine the Archbishop of Canterbury now rather regrets the foreword to his book Reimagining Britain: Foundations for Hope in which he credits Vennells with having “shaped my thinking over the years”. But this wasn’t just a rhetorical tribute: Vennells’s thinking has left its mark on more than one national institution. Across her careers, she has championed and centralised precisely the kind of centralising managerialism that leaves the little people forgotten. It is exactly this approach that Welby has galvanised as a battering ram against the local parish church throughout his tenure at Canterbury.
Despite the fact that Vennells had almost zero parish experience, never having been a vicar for instance, her candidacy for the post of Bishop of London — the third-most senior clerical job in the country — was supported by Welby. Astonishingly in retrospect, she came within a whisker of getting that job in 2017. This was at a time when Vennells’s star was riding high. She had turned a loss-making Post Office to profit. Perhaps she could do the same with the ailing Church of England, restoring both institutions to their position — alongside the Pub — in the holy trinity of British communal life. But, as we now know, not since Beeching has the local had such powerful enemies.
Embarrassingly for me, many of us subscribed to Vennells’s ideas back then. In 2015, without recognising the irony, I wrote for the Guardian: “We must do to the churches what Beeching did to the railways.” Here are some lines from that sorry piece. “The Church of England is the custodian of 15,700 churches… I suspect that if every single one of them were blown up tomorrow, England would be a much more Christian country in 10 years’ time.” The idea was this: “Instead of one over-stretched vicar covering six of eight rural churches, we should copy the way in which England was first evangelised through the establishment of minsters – churches that are supported by a community of clergy, churches that have the scale to maintain good organists, choirs and Sunday Schools… These high-morale, better-resourced bundles of energy could then become local campaign headquarters for the re-evangelisation of England.” What we needed was some creative destruction.
It was a ridiculous thing to believe and I regret saying it. Mea culpa. But others kept the faith, and practised what they preached. Leicester Diocese, for instance, describes their Minster Communities as “groups of churches and fresh expressions working collaboratively and sharing resources to enable effective mission”. In 2021, Leicester Diocese voted to close 234 parish churches and replace them with 20-25 Minster communities each led by an Operations Director — who may or (more likely) may not be a priest. Clergy numbers could be cut and thus savings achieved.
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SubscribeI rather wish Vennels had become Bishop of London, grotesquely ill-qualified though she is, just for the pleasure of watching Welby squirming on the hook.
I expect he would then have promised to spend £ millions of other people’s money in reestablishing his feeling of virtue.
The thing is it is not something actions can fix, it is that Satan has figured out how to win.
All it took was to capture the entertainment and Media industry. Make Christianity an embarrassment. Then take Education to make postmodernist militant atheism the philosophy so the young are trained from infancy to think Christianity both cause of the great harms – and also just an embarrassment.
All it took was disrespect taught of Christianity wile the Church did not fight back but yielded on every point.
You make something embarrassing and it is dropped like a hot rock – it was a simple weapon, and worked. Welby played along and did nothing but was part of it.
…what is Satan’s gender do you think Simon?
Androgynous.
Can a devil have a p***s?
Why, whatever [insert pronoun here] says it is, of course.
Banging on about Satan is utter nonsense; and worse. It creates a type of discourse which evades the prosaic effects which Giles Fraser has humbly outlined in this piece.
If your Satan is to blame, we might as well give up bothering now, eh?
It’s time to put away these childish terms and start addressing the real human issues which lead to the decline of institutions. Humans created then, humans can maintain or destroy them. The very notion of some supernatural force being employed will get us absolutelty nowhere.
And please, spare us the pieties which usually accompany the defence of such drivel.
Go and sit in a church; following that observance post your tiresome objections to the vestiges of faith. What Nabokov said of Don Quixote – His blazon is pity, his banner is beauty. He stands for everything that is gentle, forlorn, pure, unselfish, and gallant – applies to those who carry on in their faith against the parvanimity of the modern age. As to Bernard Hill, Satan was/is a fallen angel. I’m sure Wikipedia has a section on angelology. Look there.
Precisely the kind of “piety” comment i was referring to.
How do you know i haven’t spent time sitting in a church, or read around those issues? Don’t presume a thing about me, it’s not appropriate.
Bartholomew can make assumptions about you on the basis of your comments. If our comments reveal nothing about us they are far from lucid.
That’s also incorrect. My comments (over a period of time) would reveal my familiarity with churches.
BW finds my comments about faith “tiresome”, but they’re based on a lifetime of contemplating such things. So, i’ll ask once again, not to post pieties in the face of an opposing view. If you’ve got something more useful to add, I’m sure you’ll oblige.
we just know from your comments.
And yet, you don’t. I enjoy spending time in churches, especially ancient village churches with a long history. They speak to me of our humanity.
Your comment, and those of others of the same ilk, speak to me of closed minds, unfounded assumptions and failure to engage with the point i made about use of the term “Satan”, which detracts from useful discourse by seeking the obscurantism of a medieval mindset.
…the evil runs through each of us, whatever name or other personifications we give it for the time being.
How dare you say I am evil? The sooner these pious churchgoers vacate the buildings the better. Religion can never ever be anything more than opinion although it’s wrapped up conveniently as faith but that’s just another word for opinion.
Historian Tom Holland addresses this in his excellent book, ‘Dominion.’
I’ve read it. An excellent book!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dominion-Making-Western-Tom-Holland/dp/0349141207/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1WAOYN5P8RY9M&keywords=tom+holland+dominion&qid=1705075067&sprefix=tom+holland+dominion%2Caps%2C76&sr=8-1
Why does the church try to be modern? Christianity’s message is timeless. Joke-cracking clergymen, drum kits and keyboards to appeal to a broader base are termites eating away at the foundational mystery of faith. You don’t go to church to be entertained, but to be captured and held by Jesus.
Bless you Man.
you go to church to belong to a ready made community, bolstered by carefully crafted beliefs that make you feel special, and better than the rest of us.
I go to church for God’s help to feel better about myself.
I love the moment when I tell people I go to church , that I’m a practising Christian. It’s a special moment. To see the responses, from the (rare) ‘after death there’s nothing, that’s it’ to the unguarded look of fleeting pity which gives way to ‘going all serious’. The most common response is incredulity – what you?! Then back to normal. No one ever, thank God! treats me as though I think I’m better than them.
No, they don’t tend to think we’re better than them, or that we believe that – they normally think (as does Andrew) that we are in some way worse than others, and deficient in some way.
I agree because that’s what I feel.
A faithful church preaches the true Gospel – which is that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” – and that no-one, saved or unsaved, is better than anyone else in that respect.
When I used to go to church as a kid, apparently some went to heaven and others to hell.
In reality, it has nothing to do with you. Or anyone else. But do go on. Tell us more about how their is no difference between the proselytizing zealot and the militant atheist. Two sides of the same coin, each so insecure in his convictions that badgering others is his main recourse.
I’m afraid Alex, but that is nonsense. Please go back and think about what you said.
That might be true (I am not a churchgoer) but hopefully it should also teach you to ACT as if you are not better than the rest of us. That is why Christianity should be bearable for non-believers while Wokeism is not.
Hmm nope. I went back to church to be captured and held by Jesus. It’s done me the world of good. You should try it. It might puncture that venal materialism and bring joy into your life.
addendum: Having been a quite anxious and bellicose left activist for decades, I remember my first response, the first day….was an overwhelming sense of relief, that I could acknowledge my crappiness, that I could stop pretending to be better /more perfect than I was….and most of all that I wasn’t responsible for the whole world….that God would bear the weight….that I was just responsible for my little part of this world….and that as long as I tried, faithfully every day… So special? Perhaps in the sense that everyone of us is special (Imago dei), but better than the rest ? Not a chance. And the point is not to be better than the rest – simply better than I was yesterday.
Go to the candle lit mass at Easter…with an open mind and a loving heart….and see what happens
Churches are, generally, depressing environments, gloomy, oppressive, bleak, cold and unwelcoming. Places of worship should promote communal joy peace, love, happiness and warmth, places where spirits can be lifted. You rarely, if ever, see joy in the faces of hymn singers. I and obviously others feel they are unwelcoming environments. If the Church of England sold some of its’ astonishing assets to help those struggling in society today they’d likely gain more respect.
Gloomy church? Try reading the Book of Acts. Then, attend an Apostolic Pentecostal church. You will find the Spirit if God and joy there!
Places of worship should worship Christ and preach the Gospel of salvation through Him alone. Most people would find that unwelcoming, because they don’t like the idea that we’re all sinners, or that we need Christ’s intervention to be saved into God’s eternal presence.
I’m shocked there are people in this world who still believe we are all born in sin!!! Well i suppose that’s one way of controlling the masses but not, i believe, a concept any loving god, if in existence, would’ve intended. Hell fire and damnation, better behave yourself then!
There’s nothing more off-putting than Happy-Clappy.
As a ‘happy clappy’ type (low church), I apologise for being off-putting. But if you take a chance to get to know me, you might find something there (hopeful sincerity and depth of feeling, that just expresses itself differently).
Your comment is like a breath of fresh air!
What a bizarre thing to say. Rid yourself of inhibition and rejoice. I think the word rejoice implies an outward expression of happiness, joy and likely clappiness (so long as noone’s watching!)
The Church of England should stick to the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. It keeps clergy who are tempted by the sort of innovations you suggest on the straight and narrow.
What rubbish! When in an area, I have often visited the CoE parish church, and always found them wonderful places; unique, serene, historically and archaeologically interesting, and never unwelcoming. Almost all that I have visited are ancient.
However, in winter, I do wear warm clothes.
Oh my gosh, I have no idea what planet you are on. When I get back to the UK from Canada, the first thing I do is check out the churches. A traditional mass, in an old church is about the most wonderful thing I can think of. And my regular places of worship in Canada promoted more joy, peace, warmth and love than any activity/institution I can think of. This is not experience talking it’s programmed animus
I was brought up in a religious family so i do have experience of the church of England, that’s why i never go back!
Churches are depressing environments? Not my church. Btw. I love singing hymns, so much prefer them to modern tunes of guitar and drums, and can’t detect gloominess in my fellow church goers.
There are also far too many CofE churches which are failing to preach the Gospel of salvation through Christ alone. We would be well rid of them, and the country probably would be spiritually better off without them (though the Holy Spirit is charge of that, of course).
Come back to the Catholic Church and help us ward off that same saccharine modernity – but bring the English Hymnal with you
Amen, bro’. My Catholic parish church is my happy place. People of every colour welcome me, and I them. We sing great hymns with gusto, often led by a glorious cantor (one of two exquisite Tongan teenage sopranos) and a Tongan or Samoan choir who, after the consecration of the host and during communion, raise the roof with one of their own amazing hymns. Sometimes a guitar but usually the pipe organ, no overhead projectors, and a homily often delivered by Father Bernard standing amidst a crowd of children gathered around him, helping him with role plays. Thanks to hordes of Polynesian, Asian and Filipino immigrants the Catholic church in New Zealand is in roaring good health. And the restaurants in Auckland are incredible. Go Kiwi! Go the Melting Pot!
And so I thought, before attending a couple of Presbyterian services in Denver, Colorado recently. Clearly a predominantly white, middle class congregation, and one that has fully embraced 21st century technology – but, boy, was it good to participate in services that unashamedly encompassed joy! The contrast with the occasional service in our parish church, one of seven in a benefice served by a single priest and no organist or choir – indeed, with barely a congregation – could not have been starker.
There was so much with which I was prepared to take issue: a well-rehearsed, musical group and chorus of professional standard to accompany most hymns; a marvellous organist and choir for the set pieces; time out for participation by children; and a young assistant pastor willing to discuss the content of her exquisitely-crafted sermon over coffee after the service. Over Christmas, the congregation had participated in taking “the travellers”, a knitted characterisation of the main nativity characters, to supper with a randomly assigned other family from the congregation, who were then tasked with taking it onwards to another family: how better to get to know other congregation members? They also provided and delivered Christmas Dinner and gifts to tens of families less fortunate than themselves. What a contrast to our PCC’s efforts, which are largely focused upon raising our parish share by means of “fish’n’chips and bingo” events, simply to keep the church open.
I have always been drawn to Presbyterianism, my late wife having been a Scot, but live in rural Middle England. The CofE hierarchy, led by the preposterous Archbishop Welby, will surely see the closure of our parish church in the not too distant future: it resonates only with the ancients of the parish, and makes no effort to connect with the younger members of the community. As death wishes go, it’s a pretty good example.
Fraser was wrong in 2015, and he’s equally wrong now.
https://johnsullivan.substack.com/p/the-collapse-of-soviet-britain
Beyond the Fringe skit on the sermon “life is like a can of baked beans” should be obligatory study for any prospective deliverer of sermons.
I think Western society needs to start drawing distinctions between Biblical Christians and Cultural Christians.
By Cultural Christians, I mean people that that are more or less Agnostic but think the purpose of the Church is to use its traditions to promote a more cohesive society. I have no problem with Cultural Christians but they are not Christians. They are Christian-adjacent and everyone would be better off if Cultural Christians just acknowledged it.
I enjoy these articles written by Unherd Contributors but it’s rare that I read one and actually believe the writer is a Man/Woman of Faith. It normally reads like Kant, Heidegger and Kierkegaard went to a bar and created a new form of spirituality.
For a group of older people going every week to church, almost never missing, there is no clear water between your Cultural Christians and Christians. People go because they go, not because they can discuss the higher points of their belief. It could be habit, it could be social and it could be religious – it is a mixture depending on the individual. Your analysis is trying to be too clever.
If you take Christianity as a whole, many people go to Catholic services because of the spectacle and sense of calm. Protestant Evangelicals attract people who want to be imbued with the Spirit. The C of E ( for me the C of W) doesn’t take things to extremes. It is almost a religion for intellectuals. But, socially, great things are done – like organising food banks and visiting lonely people. IMO, your demarcation between Cultural Christians and Christians is arrogant and Un-Christian.
Agree. The central tenet of Christianity is to love God and love your neighbour as yourself. Those who manage the latter are at least half way there even if they have a bit of difficulty loving and understand their unseen God. Queen Elisabeth I had the right idea in not seeking to make a window into her subject’s souls . Nor should we.
No. The central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ, God incarnate, died for us that our sins may not be accounted against us, and so that we might join God in His heaven for eternity.
Is there any point in debating “central tenets” as the padlocks are locked closed on the last few open churches?
If the process of debate destroys the debating chamber then everyone looses.
Jesus wasn’t God incarnate actually until in the 6th century when that claim had to be amended in Rome because if he was not the son of god he would have been born a sinner like the rest of us Oooops!
I’m not trying to be clever or tell anybody they can’t go to Church. I’m trying to correct a heresy. The Inclusivity Doctrine is a heresy, plain and simple. A Church absolutely has to be Exclusive about it’s beliefs. Viewpoint Discrimination might bother some people but it’s absolutely necessary to have a functioning Church.
I haven’t seen a single piece of scripture in this writer’s Narrative and I think the reason is because its Extra-Biblical. Tradition and Community IS part of Church teachings but it’s a by-product of genuine faith. The tradition part without the Faith is just a social group.
I’m not trying to trash the writer or claim I’m better than he is. I’m claiming what he’s articulating is not Biblical and that distinction has to be made.
The additional clarity you provided here is helpful. I think the original writer has spent so long on the clerical frontline witnessing decline his views are shaped by existential threats and economic survival.
You will probably find the following offensive but ultimately any religion is a moral framework promoted to a society. A society will then judge what it offers and at what cost.
It might be intellectually stimulating to review the finer points of Biblical Christianity but the occasional scan of community reality through the Cultural Christian periscope might provide a valuable point of verification.
If not then one day you might fail to notice the local Bishop has padlocked the church door and instructed its sale as an exciting domestic dwelling development opportunity.
You make an important distinction but your divisive comments that try to police a league table of divine belief worthiness probably go some way to explaining the plummeting graph of CofE congregation headcount.
The Church of England has been in a terminal tailspin for decades and fatal impact with the ground does not seem far away. I think any subscribers should be welcomed rather than being subjected to a religious fitness test.
Looking back across centuries I suspect the majority of churchgoers were in the Cultural Christian category but at least that established a working community framework for higher aspirations. In the English soccer league system the Championship League feeds talent through to the Premiership and the whole system is fed by a plethora of community amateur teams.
The soccer system would fail if a 10 year old turning up for his first Saturday match was personally berated by the head coach of Manchester United for his playing failures and then told he was not a proper football player.
So your answer seemingly confirms my perspective. The Secular Inclusivity Doctrine is not the same thing as Christ’s message. It sounds like it. There is overlap but ultimately we’re talking about viewpoint discrimination not personal discrimination. Biblical Christianity can not be Viewpoint Inclusive.
Viewpoint discrimination is not calling people heretics and throwing them away. It’s correcting a non-biblical heresy from distorting Christ’s message. I have not only a right but a duty to correct false doctrines. Not because I am some model of a perfect Christian. I consider myself something like a “Wannabe Christian.” Someone that believes the Bible is true because I see Christ working in my life but feel unworthy of the label, Christian.
Let the Secularists have their “Falling Church Numbers” narrative. If the Church is not an authentic representation of Christ than its numbers deserve to fall until the Church reestablishes a Biblical worldview.
The Bible is very clear that the biggest threat to the Church comes from within the Church. It doesn’t come from Atheists who are clear about where they stand. The more I study Secular movements the more clear it becomes that there is a calculated effort to distort Christ’s message by making the Church something that its not.
It is fascinating to read your views as I enter the far periphery of your belief system.
You say “there is a calculated effort to distort Christ’s message by making the Church something that its not”.
Has the Christian Church ever been able to offer a consistent definition of what it is? Over the past 1000 years there have been many relaunches and product face-lifts, to use vulgar market terminology.
I am influenced by the ideas of religious historians and anthropologists who explain that religion and societies have a symbiotic relationship. The theory is that human societies have reinvented the need for religion over and over because societies need a morale code and implementation framework. A moral code gives a society a competitive advantage and in simple Darwinian mechanics such a society will prosper and outcompete an irreligious rival.
The Christian symbiotic relationship is fading fast in the UK, whether that is because society has elected to follow an irreligious path or religion failed in product/contract terms, I do not know.
You said some interesting things in both comments. You don’t offend me. I get why people reject Christianity as truth. You see it as a successfully administered cultural religion. Maybe it had some wise insights giving it a “Darwinian” survival advantage but ultimately think it will just become an ancient expression of spirituality once a more Holistic idea set is conceived.
I actually agree that it operates as a cultural survival advantage. It has an advantage because it’s based on the relentless search for empirical Truth about human nature and why we’re here.
I do think Christianity has established a consistent definition. I think the Old and New Testaments paint a fairly clear picture to Christians across Denominations. There’s quarrels over implementation. There’s schisms caused by Statist regimes and heresies but the message is straight forward and simplisticly true on a shocking level.
I think if you break down Anthropology, you’ll find alot of religion which is being passed off as empirical science. I think you’ll find a heavy dose of both Hermeticism (Alchemy) and Gnosticism (Heretical “Emancipatory” Christianity). Its trying to solve the riddle of humanity. I get it. That’s all good but the more I read the less I’m convinced that reconstruction science is “Science” as we understand it.
You simply can’t recreate the conditions of the earth with a precise level of accuracy like you can with live sciences like biology, physics or chemistry. So you have to speculate on certain variables. Over time, the more you speculate, the further you get from statistically verifiable truth and the more you rely on faith. Do I think the earth is 6000 yrs old. No, probably not. But do I think that 4.5 billion year claim by evolutionists. I do not. I think they landed on that number because the predictive window was so large. At some point it’s just a pragmatic guess.
Everybody has faith in their “own truth.” We could not function without it. Every faith should be interrogated. That goes for Christianity. So, i say interrogate on and see where it takes you. But interrogate everything.
I have a lot of catching up to do, some of your post past way over my head.
As to scientific proof, you have a point. The discoveries of the new James Web Telescope have triggered “The Crisis in Cosmology”. Either the Universe is now 26 billion years old i.e. twice the previous estimate or we we now have to entertain the notion of “slow light” which would cause Einstein to turn in his gave.
Maybe God slowed down light just to test us.
I’m happy to acknowledge being a ‘cultural christian’. I think I understand why so many people are ‘biblical’ christians, or indeed proper believing followers of any religion, but it doesn’t work for me.
That’s cool. I hope somebody or something convinces you otherwise but if it doesn’t happen to make you believe, than it wasn’t meant to be. It’s a voluntary religion.
The Church today is making the same mistake as the BBC – it is trying to make going to church (or watching television) something for young people. If it focussed on older people the effect would drip down as it always has done. Our local churches have tried to replace Prayer Books with screens – and have spent a lot of money. The older people couldn’t see the screens so the books had to come back. The latest accounts showed that donations had fallen sharply because people didn’t want their money spent on stupid gimmicks like screens.
Interesting observation. Our church is looking at installing an expensive screen system. I can’t see the attraction. I can read a book far more easily than I can a distant screen and it costs a lot less.
It is just the idea that a screen must be more modern and therefore desirable than books. It also has the “advantage” that new and unfamiliar hymns and songs can more easily be introduced. Get away from all that traditional stuff.
There are many more advantages that books have.
They work when the power goes off.
You can look at other hymns/prayers than the one the screen is failing to show you at that moment.
They aren’t reliant on updating systems every couple of weeks.
They are there when a service isn’t taking place.
They don’t require an ‘expert’ to be used.
And as you say, those who have less good eyesight can see them far better than a screen.
However, an argument in favor of screens at least for singing is that they get worshippers’ lowered heads out of the hymnal and lifted up in a posture more receptive to God. And it releases the vocal cords. Worshippers can raise their hands not encumbered by holding a book. As for eyesight, in this day and age that can be taken care of by cataract surgery and eyeglasses. (Technology!)
Hold the book up in front of you!
The angle of many screens is inimical to comfortable singing too.
If the screen ( protected) was on the exterior of the Church for the timid, faint hearted, unsure, etc- it might draw people in.
They concentrated on the children (to no avail) when they should have worked with the community.
I can’t abide screens in church. There are screens everywhere, we’re always looking at blinking screens. I’m looking at a screen now. I want to got to church and connect with people around and, if I can possibly hope to do so in my sorry state, with God. Screens are the modern day idols, offering a tempting but deceptive simulacrum of reality. They have absolutely no place in church.
‘If the church focused on older people the effect would drip down’? Well it clearly hasn’t has it.
Just imagine if Oracle Films’ “Safe and Effectuve: a Second Opinion” were to suddenly get the viewership that the sub-postmasters’ series received. https://odysee.com/@OracleFilms:1/safeandeffective:4 Pfizer could be to the Church of England, and much of the rest of the Establishment, what Fujitsu has become to the Post Office.
The Archbishop’s hubristic faith in corporate technology and top-down “progress” was clear for all to see during the corporate-sponsored “pandemic”. For even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it should have come as no surprise to the Church’s learned leadership that Satan’s servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Did it not occur to the church that, if the love of money is the root of all evil, corporations which are legally duty-bound psychopathically to maximise profits might occasionally tell a porky or two? Such legal (ie false) persons serve their own appetite for profit, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
(For the avoidance of doubt I don’t at all think everyone who works for Pfizer or any other corporation is evil, but I do believe that the modern large corporation is a convenient vehicle through which evil manifests itself. It tricks good people into serving it. Cf the Apple logo).
I’m convinced that we could be on the cusp of revival of “full fat Christianity” as more and more children of the day wake up to the dreary corporate lies we have been told all our lives. The CofE has an opportunity to guide this revival, or be left behind by it. It can choose to lead by ditching ludicrous flag-waving and virtue signalling, and offering challenging spiritual leadership that asks more of people than to just turn up on a Sunday or enter a church raffle. If people want sanctimonious lectures about climate change and transhumanism that make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and part of a happy clappy community of fellow travellers they can go and join the Lib Dems. It’s time for a change.
I am interessted in your reference to the apple logo but don’t understand it! Please could you explain it?
The bite of worldly knowledge?
Yes. Genesis 3:1-13. The serpent tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. Commonly referred to as taking a bite of an apple. The Apple logo shows an apple with a bite taken out of it. I’m convinced there is something satanic in digital technology.
I’m a big Apple fan, but that thought has crossed my mind.
Thanks!
You state that “the love of money is the root of all evil”, whereas the bible tells us that “the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.” A very different thing.
That the CofE currently worships money is of course still sinful, and satanically driven.
Hmm. Interesting. It’s 1 Timothy 6:10. The KJV has it as “the root of all evil”. Other translations have it as the “the root of all evils” or, as you say, “the root of all kinds of evil”. But how would say that these different formulations differ in substance? All kinds of evil and all evil are co-terminus, are they not? Any evil must be of some specific kind or other. All kinds of evil are evil. Nothing that is at least one kind of evil is not evil.
There’s an argument that for the last two hundred years or so the Western world has been moving from the spirit of timeless tradition to one of increasingly frenetic change driven by people.
Centralising managerialism is one of the ways in which people try to make this spirit of change work better – and the institutions that suffer are the ‘traditional’ ones like the Church and the Post Office.
Are timeless traditions dead yet? Not entirely, but they are marginalised.
Thanks was a very good read. Thanks.
If you seek to understand the Powers and Principalities behind the Post Office scandal, you can do worse than consult Iain McGilchrist and his brain lateralisation thesis.
The machine mentality “attracts to positions of influence individuals who will help it ever further down the same path. And the increasing domination of life by both technology and bureaucracy helps to erode the more integrative modes of attention…, much as they erode the social and cultural structures that would have facilitated other ways of being, so that in this way they aid their own replication.”
“The sad story of Rev. Vennells and the Post Office has the same roots: a hubristic faith in technology and progress.”
This and the references above to managerialism etc, I agree with – sort of. On the one had there is clearly something very wrong with modern systemic practices, which seem to keep producing perverse and absurd outcomes on the human level. On the other hand, technology and progress are what has produced the best human condition ever experienced, so we have to be careful how we generalise here.
Managerialism is a word that has become popular in recent years to describe in negative terms an ideology in which professionals plan systems. It is yet another example of top-down thinking, which of course almost never goes well. But it is important to remember that it encompasses a form of activity – management – that we have always had, and it has always been possible, until lately at least, to decide whether a manager is doing his job properly or not. The danger is that we class managerialism and management as being the same, when they are not.
The reason people like Paula Vennells fail spectacularly is that they are bureaucrats, not managers. They benefit personally from a crucial lack of the accountability that usually otherwise ensures that bad managers cannot rise high enough to cause large amounts of damage. As long as the State decides that it will control an ever-expanding sphere of influence, we will continue to see mediocre managerialists promoted into positions where they can make enormous mistakes and cause genuine havoc. There’s only one fix: a smaller State.
I won’t hold my breath.
Managerialism is sometimes referred to as the Silent Ideology because it hides behind heated rhetoric about fascism and communism. Thanks for making the distinction between management and class managerialism. I touch upon managerialism in my, hopefully soon to be completed, dissertation, but the distinction you made had eluded me until now,
What the shocking treatment of postmasters has revealed is not the unwarranted trust in systems but the absence of the presumption of innocence.
‘We should do to the churches what Beeching did to the railways.’ The destruction – ‘rationalisation’ – of Britain’s railways was headed by Ernest Marples. At the time he was the owner of a company that built motorways.
Though Marples left the country after a scandal and being given a peerage, the reduction of the railways was evidently an advantage if the motorcar was to be favoured. Beeching wasn’t the enemy of the local. He was a friend of the motor vehicle. In the Edwardian era the motor car was seen as liberating and a solution to the noise and pollution of horse-drawn transport.
What a pity Ms Vennells wasn’t made Bishop of London. Sometimes it’s necessary to lose what is valuable to realise how valuable it it. Railways, one of the great achievements of civilisation, are an example. ‘Tragically we broke more than we realised’. Instead of having an improved local rail service from Brighton to Rye, we now have in a truncated HS2 a very expensive train set for the home counties.
No one need doubt Ms Vennells’ faith; even if one disputes her methods. Given her previous careers, she’s evidently a very capable person. And, more importantly, the Gospel of Christ warns against joining any mob, even a righteous one. There is to be no hunting down, even of the hunters.
Unherd’s preacher is being far too hard on himself. Managerialism is the spirit of the age. The Apostle Paul might be described as somewhat managerial. However, the first churches in the Roman Empire took their shape from the free associations that already honeycombed the Roman world. They were an intrinsic part of Roman civic society. As society in Britain changes, what gave rise to the parish church – or to the village school or the post office – will no longer exist to support it.
‘unwarranted trust in systems — systems of management, systems of technology — over people’. That’s exactly it. And not just confined to Vennells and the CofE of course, but thank you Giles for bringing our attention (mine anyway) to how her kind of thinking – directly and indirectly – has suffused the church.
The managerial spirit is alive and working its destructive ways not just in Anglicanism but in Methodism whose roots lay in the establishment of independent societies of believers committed to evangelism ministered to by ordained ministers who travelled round the circuit to preach the faith.
Today these circuits have become administrative units with a superintendent minister eager to rationalise and close unproductive churches that fail to pay up to maintain the ministers and send tribute up the administrative line to be redistributed to overseas churches that are far healthier than ours. Instead of fostering the independent spirits of the local churches with their individual personal net of connections through the community the Superintendent ministers see themselves as centralising managers.
The latest wheeze is to insist that all but one church in the circuit close on Sunday on a regular basis to “bring the people of the circuit together” the better to manage them thus weakening the individual churches that can then be closed and their buildings sold.
The successful feature of Methodism was the extensive use of unpaid lay preachers and worship leaders. But the spirit of managerialism has dictated that these have to undertake increasingly lengthy and burdensome education. Not surprisingly they are now running short of lay ministers and worship leaders.
The Superintendent is now seeking to replace our existing minister because he is not part of her plans for the circuit. He preaches and preys too much apparently. He visits his flock when they are sick. He is to be replaced by a part time Minister who has said she does not intend to do pastoral visits and has a fashionable alternative lifestyle. Sadly we seem stuck with this Vennells style Superintendent we seldom see despite our church marking the relationship with the Circuit as a 2 or 3 out of 10 when surveyed.
We could do with more technological help but mercifully we have been spared a centralised Horizon like system to sort out the sheep and the goats. Far more effort goes into the managerial business of safeguarding than the actual task of evangelism.
I echo and endorse this comment, but would add that managerialism combined with wokeism is afflicting the Methodist Church. This a generalisation, but there is a growing trend for ordained ministers to be uninterested in their traditional pastoral role, nurturing the faith in their local congregations and being a light to their bit of the world. Rather, they want to be social justice warriors, pursuing all the usual and predictable causes of diversity, Pride and climate politics. Sadly the long-term trend is for local churches to become less self-sustaining and eventually close, for Methodism to disappear from a town or village, and for the realised assets to percolate upwards, enabling the activist contingent to pursue their agenda. And so it goes on.
Not being a Methodist myself this sort of complaint rings rather hollow. Isn’t one of the benefits of being a splitter that you can just go off and start your own proper church without oversight from the “higher” authorities? That’s what the methodists did back in the day. Why can’t you (or your group) just say we aren’t sending our money up to be doled out and if they threaten to do something nasty to you just say “thanks but no thanks” and go your merry way?
If you seek to understand the powers and principalities behind the Post Office scandal, you can do worse than consult Iain McGilchrist and his brain lateralisation thesis.
In particular, the procedural mentality “attracts to positions of influence individuals who will help it ever further down the same path. And the increasing domination of life by both technology and bureaucracy helps to erode the more integrative modes of attention…, much as they erode the social and cultural structures that would have facilitated other ways of being, so that in this way they aid their own replication.”
Wrong Giles. Whilst I agree with much of your analysis, I fear you are not grasping the scale of the ideological crisis that has – in the space of 10 short years – corripted and totslly destroyed the CoE. Manageralism is not the core problem; that is how the progressive party state expresses itself. The problem is that the Church has boaed the knee and been captured by a rival ideology bent on the destruction of our traditional Christian values; family, nation, community not individuality – all are being aggressively purged by the Progressive New Order & Revolution wrought by Blairism and the EU since the 90s. Now you even are talismen for the race hate identitarianism that the State is propogating via its twisted Victim/Oppressor Equality mania. All I see is a Church full of wokey women, hostile political Remainiacs and an adjunct to the Progressive State making our lives Hell. You locked the doors in Lockdown. You betrayed the ideal of Sanctuary. You despoiled private funerals in lockdown. I never ever will forgive this Church of England. Know your Enemy Giles. Win it back.
In Cape Town last Sunday I attended Christmas service at an Orthodox Church. People, couples, families of all ages were there, coming and going as the mysteries were celebrated and revealed. Nothing has changed for two thousand years.
Mangerialism however is a secular modern cult in which all must fall before utilitarianism and efficiency. To even question it is to be ‘resistant to change’ the ultimate sin.
My local Church has been downgraded or delisted by the Church of England recently, yet strangely the community has rallied to preserve it both materially and functionally.
A few weeks ago it was standing room only for late arrivals at the village carol service. The Christmas decorations were the best for years and a Lottery grant to fix the roof hints a corner has been turned.
I acknowledge that carols, mulled wine and locally baked mince pies do not sustain a village church but it is a start.
The Word according to the Prophet Jordan Peterson is starting to permeate my brain, this Christianity malarky is starting to make sense.
I hope it is Christ Jesus who is starting to make sense.
Carols, mulled wine and other goodies have always had a part to play, just as much as a wafer of bread and a sip of wine.
I hope this positivity continues. The test of viability is whether there is year round, sustained charity. If you are really wanting to sustain this institution you need to get involved with the PCC or whatever a non-CoE local council is called – JP said so.
If the Post Office had taken proper IT advice, they would know that EVERY large IT system has bugs in it. If discrepancies or challenges arise, due diligence should be done to chase down the defects. To assume that the software is infallible is sheer folly.
You touch on another parallel between parts of the Church (the Catholic church at least) and the Post Office – the idea that those in charge are infallible.
Original sin for the proles. Infallability for the bosses !
I think your comment is itself making assumptions. I’m sure the PO took proper advice, and good practice was followed. I think the problems arose because of the sheer scale of the problem, a situation in which one department made assumption as to the actions of other departments, and the increasing momentum in the process which by the time enough doubts had been raised which should have brought a effective check, there were inhibitions about doing so for fear of causing an avalanche of disaster.
For the record, I have had experience of computer systems both sound and erroneous, honesty and dishonesty, human error on input, and the correction of such errors, which can become fiendishly difficult, especially when numbered in the hundreds of thousands and embedded in the hundreds of millions of transactions. Note that the PO dealt with tens of of other organisations using the services of PO branches, and handling cheques, cash, and other tokens.
“I’m sure the PO took proper advice, and good practice was followed”
I suggest you read some of the witness statements from the Inquiry for example this one https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-11/WITN00620100%20David%20McDonnell%20-%20Witness%20Statement_0.pdf
I am afraid that Giles in his attack on managerialism in the Church of England, is ignoring the elephant in the room which is that of money and human resources. The painful but all-too-true fact is that for whatever reason, regular church attendance has been steadily falling in the UK for over 150 years, despite multiple and varied initiatives to change this. This is having unavoidable consequences for how much church life can actually be sustained, and to blame this simply on managerialism per se is avoiding the issue.
Of course the Church must try and manage its decline in a sensible way. To turn away from this is a dereliction of duty. What I suspect that Giles is really attacking is not managerialism in itself, but what is for him the wrong sort of managerialism. The current managerialism in the Church is evangelical managerialism. Many clergy and lay people are observing this latest attempt to reverse the decline of the Church of England with weary resignation, and have little faith that it will change the overall trend.
What nevertheless remains, is the priority and need to forge a structure for the life of the Church of England which can endure these hard times. Giles was not wrong in once championing the need to do this. We do need viable churches that have the capacity to endure and to attract all ages. Indeed this is the strategy that has sustained the Roman Catholic Church in the UK, which has not been burdened by trying to sustain multitudes of small churches.
The RCC has few churches because we banished it from these shores. That it is coming creeping back bringing its blasphemies and heresies with it is nothing to boast about.
I must correct you; the central C of E is not sustaining our local churches, even though they are large churches with small congregations, it is the other way around. Our parish share has been growing year by year for decades, while the services held dwindle, and the congregation too. Some church-goers get in their cars and travel to other parishes, but I do not. As child, my family went regularly to the same service, at the same church, at the same time, every week. Now, I have to go online and see whether or not there is a service in my church. There was none at all on Christmas day.
One of the reasons the congregation has diminished is because the number living in the village has reduced, especially children. Village residents now seem more ephemeral, perhaps as they follow their careers, and less likely to show interest in the rest of the village, or become know to the priest, who himself now has an extensive area to cover, all by car, of course.
The Roman Catholic Church was only being kept afloat through mass migration and especially EU migration from Roman Catholic countries. It never had deep reach but does have many small churches that without Poles, Portuguese etc. will be forced to close in the future. There was an article on this site a few months ago about the collapse in mass attendance after Covid which is more pronounced for Roman Catholics because of their relatively high attendance pre-pandemic. I am sorry I don’t remember who the article was by – not the author of this one.
The other problem is a lack of priests joining seminaries:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66250150.amp
Church leaders are there to provide pastoral support, guidance and instruction to the congregation. They need to be available to help people both inside and outside the church, and this cannot be done from an area hub. It has to be local.
It does rather look as if the Rev Paula Vennells is in fact the reincarnation of Tomás de Torquemada, Grand Inquisitor of the Tribunal of the Holy Office, otherwise known as the Spanish Inquisition.
I didn’t expect that!
What a brilliant article Giles. It is so good to see those who can speak out actually doing so, clearly stating opposite views to those of the central system. Could politicians ever do this? Did they ever? I am pleased to see your mea culpa. Having said you too got it wrong is fine. But now, please let’s see what you suggest for a new way forward. I’m becoming more interested in going back to the Christian Church and I’d like to know how we could all make things work better. Thanks.
“Move fast and break things” IS (still) the spirit of the age where I live – the country ruled by Macron. He will listen to no one, unfortunately; I wish he would, and learn from this cautionary tale.
‘Apparently they thought computer systems could never sin’. ‘They’ being . . . I assume Giles means the management of the Post Office, certainly no professional computer programmer would ever think that. And I’ve not met any professional managers I can remember who think that either. It sounds like the management of the Post Office may have been, consciously or sub-consciously, willing the systems to ‘prove’ they were being swindled by the sub-postmasters, which if so, especially with the CEO a deacon of the church. Blimey! If that is so then it sounds like the Church ought not to be keeping quiet on this – certainly if it wants more churchgoers!
I stopped donating to my parish when it closed the church during lockdown. Would anyone pay an insurance premium if the policy company let you down when you most needed them?
If government mandate forced the church closure then why not register your objection when voting in the next general election?
The church did not have to close because of government decree. Ours, normally unlocked, was locked tight, and I didn’t set foot in it for a very long period, despite it being far, far safer than our supermarket, naturally ventilated as it is. It even has bags of space during a comparatively well-attended service in normal times, so the two meter rule would have been a doddle.
But the Conservative government mandated lockdown and masks and Labour and the LibDems wanted stronger and longer measures.
Perhaps the COVID farce was a failure of government rather than party?
But if your conscience determines that the government is mandating something immoral, you should disobey.
One might have expected the Church to be run by people with a conscience — a sense of right and wrong — but apparently not.
If you see the church as a spiritual insurance policy and the giving of alms as the premium on a discrete private utility then I humbly suggest you are trapped in the same paradigm as the Rector of Kew criticises in this piece.
Very thoughtful article by Giles. As always. And an elegant retraction.
But what in practice can be done to save the C of E? Or must we just quietly despair?
It is no surprise that the CoE’s congregations are falling drastically when one considers its leadership, starting with the ultimate exemplar of wealthy, woke managerialism, Archbishop Justin Welby. With the likes of the Rev Paula Vennells at the top of Welby’s managerialist hierarchy, I it’s obvious to me why fewer people are drawn into the organisation. These woke DEI practitioners are dismantlers of a proud institution with its long, distinguished history; not its protectors and builders for a viable future. Theirs will be a legacy of shame and destruction. Their ruthless pursuit of the ‘inclusion’ agenda has, ironically, excluded more and more people from the flock.
Perhaps we need to do the exact opposite. Get rid of all the Bishops and Managerial staff, with their expensive palaces and life style. The CofE as an institution suffers from all the same problems as the administrative staff of government. Jesus was not a big fan of the Pharasees etc, perhaps the local church priest should not be either.
once one gets rid of the church, then it has gone for good. Every effort should have been made to maintain the local church and minimise the institutional church. This is how the church will return to life – at the community level. the exact opposite to what is being mandated.
Wow, she has a corncob somewhere on her body. Perfect Bureaucrat.
The unseemly behaviour of the Vicar of St Mary’s University Church Oxford towards the long established much loved Vaults Garden Cafe, a hugely successful independent business, is another example of corporate mindset and un-Christian outlook.
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CofE is finished. Enclaves of Christian growth are emerging aside from its “auspices”, rooted in doctrine not cultural sensibilities.
This distressing report calls for response by CofE members who may be able to influence the future of their Church. However, as one who has always been fond of ‘the Church for all England I comment.
(1) The managerial approach of the Archbishop of Canterbury (previously an oil company executive) and his acolyte the Reverend Miss Vennells is inconsistent with Christian values, which put God first followed by people (whether or not Christians. Not surprisingly it has failed; worse failed over a long time with no awareness or change in policy by the ‘management’.
(2) The mission of the Church (in the biblical sense) is to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ and the joy that brings. For centuries this was done by individuals, not a corporation. Today the ‘company’ may have a poor image, but as individual Christians we can do the work. While mention of God (and more ‘Father’) can be an immediate cause of deafness in the other person, sensitive mention of Jesus Christ and his purpose & effects can lead to dialogue. Today individual Christians are rarely encouraged to do this – it is someone else’s job or we do not wish to disrupt our cosy insular social group and routines.
Why are churches in Asia and Africa thriving? How to achieve this and reverse the decline in Britain? I do not know, but suggest the current ‘leaders’ are failing; and I do not exclude the leaders of the Catholic Church in England from this. Fortunately I have read to the end of ‘the Books’ and know eventually it will end well.
A few years ago I went to some viewings with an estate agent in North London, one of which was in a converted church.
There was no attempt to disguise its former role, the conversion made the most of the arch windows and vaulting, the estate agent gushingly pointing all these desirable features out.
What was most shocking was that it was in a well heeled part ofLondon, the middle class people around it would have once formed the core of its congregation, and not that long ago , but now it was unwanted.
It was utterly depressing and it had a distinct end of days feel about it. I couldn’t shake off the feeling that as went its congregation so would go our country.
We will miss our local church and its friendly vicar, when they are gone. We miss the local pub, the butcher’s shop and the post office. It doesn’t occur to us that we bought our booze and beef from Tesco and never sent any post. Or that we never stopped to go into that old building that is now boarded up and an eyesore.
#GSFA, #GAFCOM
Become like the Quakers – no clergy and no churches just meeting houses. Saves a lot of hassle.
I have seen this distant, top-down, theory-driven management approach cause havoc in my own housing complex, in medicine and in university colleges and departments. The MBAs who run it are oblivious to the disaster it causes because they are only looking at their own short-term bottom line and not at the wider social consequences, the bill for which is picked up by somebody else. The Master of Business Administration syllabus needs thoroughly overhauling – or better, to play them at their own game, double-blind testing against other management practices – to see which builds the more cohesive society. Now quantify that one if you can!
It is essential that one distinguishes between the Institutional Church of Bishops, Canons and Synods and the Christian community in each parish.
The road to salvation is narrow for a reason. The church should try to crowd it yes, but not widen it. Performance Christianity dilutes the message of salvation and God. Faith is not always feel good. Anything goes preaching and faith are deceptions of Satan and an invitation to suffering.
I had no idea she was supposed to be a committed Christian.
If this is what passes for Christianity, I think I’ll pass.
Aren’t a large proportion of these buildings of architectural and historic interest . Who will look after them ? Is the church going to expect the government to pay ? Also doesn’t the Church of England have vast amounts of money invested ? After all it has been going since the 1530s . Was Vennells looking to asset strip . And all the emphasis on BLM and diversity . Reparations for the slave trade ? All you need surely is the Church Commissioners to fall to wokists like every other institution .