Main Edition
US
FR
May 22, 2023 - 1:00pm
It gives me no pleasure to report that the climate protestors are at it again. After Just Stop Oil threw soup at Van Gogh’s Sunflowers and glued themselves to Constable’s Hay Wain, a related group is following their lead and vandalising artistic monuments.
This time it’s Rome’s iconic Trevi Fountain: an 18th-century Baroque landmark and one of the most famous fountains in the world. An Italian offshoot of Just Stop Oil, Ultima Generazione (Last Generation), poured diluted charcoal into the water, blackening it and prompting angry backlash from authorities about the absurdity of an environmental “protest” that will necessitate the further wastage of thousands of litres of water to clean the fountain.
A common objection to these actions is how counterproductive they are. If your aim is winning hearts and minds, why incur the ire of ordinary people by attacking iconic and much-loved artworks? On the face of it, this makes no sense at all — at least not if you assume the idea is to carry the culture with you. Attacking artworks makes more sense, though, understood as protests not against oil but against culture as such.
Both Hay Wain and Sunflowers are intelligible within the wider arc of art history, and exist in dialogue with one another — just as the questions with which both grapple exist in dialogue with the Baroque sculptural style of the Trevi Fountain. All these artworks express aesthetic paradigms characteristic of their age’s dominant cultural assumptions.
In its structure and original purpose, the fountain itself captures the historic sweep of that dialogue: though the existing stoneworks were completed in the 18th century, there’s been a fountain on this spot since 19 BC, created to serve the people of Rome with fresh water in the days before plumbing. The spring that feeds the fountain is some 13km outside Rome, and water travels via an aqueduct originally built by the Roman statesman Agrippa.
In other words, this fountain’s cultural history has taproots all the way to ancient Rome, itself one of the civilisational roots of the culture still (mostly) globally hegemonic today. Why, then, invite the anger of pretty much everyone by attacking something whose history runs so deep?
But if you view these attacks as a continuation of the Western artistic dialogue, they do make sense. To the extent that the emergence of fossil-fuel-intensive modern society is inextricable from the broader cultural arc that produced these artworks, it’s perhaps understandable that a movement that wants to end fossil fuel use would aim its energies at the wider worldview that sees that use as indispensable — including its artistic legacy.
Join the discussion
Join like minded readers that support our journalism by becoming a paid subscriber
To join the discussion in the comments, become a paid subscriber.
Join like minded readers that support our journalism, read unlimited articles and enjoy other subscriber-only benefits.
SubscribeI think that the author is attributing too much thought and intelligence to these people; I still think that it is to garner the greatest amount of publicity. Remember they don’t care about western culture or hoi poloi, I’m not even sure that they care about the planet that much, it’s all about “Look at me! Look at me! Please, please, look at me!”
Yes, it’s about them not the planet.
Spot on. These pampered protestors simply want to elevate their status within their group. Nothing more.
Self interest will almost always trump the cause
Self interest will almost always trump the cause
”At some level, these are anti-cultural interventions, in a millennia-long cultural dialogue.”
… or they are just attention seeking infants.
One does not necessarily exclude the other. I fully agree that these individuals and their actions are infantile, stupid, and destructive with a definite “look at me and how outrageous I am” profile, but I also think that they loathe Western civilisation and all it represents. That loathing is probably not motivated by a sophisticated chain of thoughts as implied by the author, but far more instinctual and primitive. It is my guess that most of these people are neither particularly intelligent nor successful in life, and instead of seeking to improve their circumstances, they are looking for a scapegoat. Anti-establishment academics and their media mouthpieces have conveniently pegged Western culture and civilisation as the one-size-fits-all scapegoat to be blamed for all the world’s woes. The protesters simply regurgitate and act upon what they have been fed. They are the puppets; the masters pulling the strings are behind the curtain and not in a fountain.
I’d leave them stuck to the museum wall for at least 48 hours. No buckets.
Absolutely. Turn it into an exhibit, that way they’d get all the attention they’re so obviously after.
Absolutely. Turn it into an exhibit, that way they’d get all the attention they’re so obviously after.
This!
I’d leave them stuck to the museum wall for at least 48 hours. No buckets.
This!
One does not necessarily exclude the other. I fully agree that these individuals and their actions are infantile, stupid, and destructive with a definite “look at me and how outrageous I am” profile, but I also think that they loathe Western civilisation and all it represents. That loathing is probably not motivated by a sophisticated chain of thoughts as implied by the author, but far more instinctual and primitive. It is my guess that most of these people are neither particularly intelligent nor successful in life, and instead of seeking to improve their circumstances, they are looking for a scapegoat. Anti-establishment academics and their media mouthpieces have conveniently pegged Western culture and civilisation as the one-size-fits-all scapegoat to be blamed for all the world’s woes. The protesters simply regurgitate and act upon what they have been fed. They are the puppets; the masters pulling the strings are behind the curtain and not in a fountain.
‘Rage and phrenzy will pull down more in half an hour than prudence, deliberation, and foresight can build up in a hundred years.’
Excellent quote, of which I was previously unaware. Thank you!
Excellent quote, of which I was previously unaware. Thank you!
But isn’t her point to understand precisely why these particular tactics “garner the greatest amount of publicity” and to offer interpretations of them in such terms?
Strange because I’m sure they use modern tech every minute of their lives. They read it, they find somewhere to sleep with it and they find somewhere to eat or shop with it, they find their small-minded pals with it.
Oh I think Greta is sincere. I used to be a big supporter. But now I think the whole thing has been exaggerated and politicized. I watched a lot of good videos that have convinced me that Climate Change is not as bad as Greta thinks. But these people are stuck in a mindset the same way feminists are stuck in a evil patriarchy mindset. They simply refuse to listen to reason.
Greta has moved on from Climate Change to the usual woke obsessions with racism, white supremacy etc. If liberal capitalism was completely and unarguably benign for the environment, some other cause would have to be found for these infantile protestors, who of course risk nothing in their protests
Greta has moved on from Climate Change to the usual woke obsessions with racism, white supremacy etc. If liberal capitalism was completely and unarguably benign for the environment, some other cause would have to be found for these infantile protestors, who of course risk nothing in their protests
Yes, it’s about them not the planet.
Spot on. These pampered protestors simply want to elevate their status within their group. Nothing more.
”At some level, these are anti-cultural interventions, in a millennia-long cultural dialogue.”
… or they are just attention seeking infants.
‘Rage and phrenzy will pull down more in half an hour than prudence, deliberation, and foresight can build up in a hundred years.’
But isn’t her point to understand precisely why these particular tactics “garner the greatest amount of publicity” and to offer interpretations of them in such terms?
Strange because I’m sure they use modern tech every minute of their lives. They read it, they find somewhere to sleep with it and they find somewhere to eat or shop with it, they find their small-minded pals with it.
Oh I think Greta is sincere. I used to be a big supporter. But now I think the whole thing has been exaggerated and politicized. I watched a lot of good videos that have convinced me that Climate Change is not as bad as Greta thinks. But these people are stuck in a mindset the same way feminists are stuck in a evil patriarchy mindset. They simply refuse to listen to reason.
I think that the author is attributing too much thought and intelligence to these people; I still think that it is to garner the greatest amount of publicity. Remember they don’t care about western culture or hoi poloi, I’m not even sure that they care about the planet that much, it’s all about “Look at me! Look at me! Please, please, look at me!”
The barbarians at the gates. Yes, they do want to destroy our heritage. They don’t value the artwork produced by the west as they hate the west for being industrialized, civilized, productive and celebratory of the accomplishments of humanity.
I fear they have moved well beyond the gates. And within their hatred of the humanist west lies a cold and catastrophic hatred of humanity itself. Such is the final expression of the “radical” impulse – destruction, not liberation.
I am genuinely worried that in some university laboratory some day soon one of the young people who have been raised on a daily diet of climate religion and cultural self loathing will decide to kill all of us by engineering a pathogen. Covid showed it is now pretty easy to do since the US subcontracted this type of work to third rate laboratory in China. The reaction to Covid showed our government, media, and population are incapable of dealing with a true emergency. Woke fundamentalism may be the end of us all.
As I said in another comment elsewhere, researchers are currently at work aerosolizing Ebola.
As I said in another comment elsewhere, researchers are currently at work aerosolizing Ebola.
I fear they have moved well beyond the gates. And within their hatred of the humanist west lies a cold and catastrophic hatred of humanity itself. Such is the final expression of the “radical” impulse – destruction, not liberation.
I am genuinely worried that in some university laboratory some day soon one of the young people who have been raised on a daily diet of climate religion and cultural self loathing will decide to kill all of us by engineering a pathogen. Covid showed it is now pretty easy to do since the US subcontracted this type of work to third rate laboratory in China. The reaction to Covid showed our government, media, and population are incapable of dealing with a true emergency. Woke fundamentalism may be the end of us all.
The barbarians at the gates. Yes, they do want to destroy our heritage. They don’t value the artwork produced by the west as they hate the west for being industrialized, civilized, productive and celebratory of the accomplishments of humanity.
The protestors are shallow, narcissistic ideologues who have zero knowledge about the historical and cultural significance of their targets. They choose famous symbols because they are famous – that’s it. They crave the spotlight above all. They are not interested in spreading awareness of their cause. They simply want short-lived fame so they can signal to their fellow crackpots how cool and radical they are. These events are nothing more than self serving, vanity protests to elevate their status within the group. The author gives them way way way too much credit.
My thoughts exactly. They are not sophisticated, but simply virtue-signalling puppets; the puppet masters who have been planting the poisonous seeds in the minds of these narcissistic simpletons who are looking for a sense of purpose won’t be found sitting in fountains or glued to paintings/roads.
Fully agree with this assessment. The protesters’ thought processes are even shallower than the water they sought to pollute.
My thoughts exactly. They are not sophisticated, but simply virtue-signalling puppets; the puppet masters who have been planting the poisonous seeds in the minds of these narcissistic simpletons who are looking for a sense of purpose won’t be found sitting in fountains or glued to paintings/roads.
Fully agree with this assessment. The protesters’ thought processes are even shallower than the water they sought to pollute.
The protestors are shallow, narcissistic ideologues who have zero knowledge about the historical and cultural significance of their targets. They choose famous symbols because they are famous – that’s it. They crave the spotlight above all. They are not interested in spreading awareness of their cause. They simply want short-lived fame so they can signal to their fellow crackpots how cool and radical they are. These events are nothing more than self serving, vanity protests to elevate their status within the group. The author gives them way way way too much credit.
It’s a shame they don’t target Tracey Emin’s bed.
Thanks for cheering me up and making me laugh!
i’d love to, as long as she was still in it…….
Thanks for cheering me up and making me laugh!
i’d love to, as long as she was still in it…….
It’s a shame they don’t target Tracey Emin’s bed.
The problem with destroying our society is that we are all entirely reliant on it for our survival. The Netherlands, Canada, and now the US are actively shutting down farms or have plans to do so in the name of global warming. I literally find it hard to articulate how irrational this is. Have they not learned from the failure of green energy policies? People in the third world at the end of the food chain will starve to death. I have a hard time understanding if these people are so profoundly marinated in their own sanctity bubble they don’t understand this – or are they genuinely evil? Because starving millions of people to death today to save the planet from some hypothetical (and completely exaggerated) future is evil. It does make you put your tinfoil hat on and wonder if people dying it in fact the true goal of the exercise.
They keep telling us climate change will lead to food shortages, but those damn farmers keep setting new records for production. Now they intend to forcibly shut down 3.000 farms in Holland. That’s one way to ensure their predictions come true.
Genuinely evil.
They keep telling us climate change will lead to food shortages, but those damn farmers keep setting new records for production. Now they intend to forcibly shut down 3.000 farms in Holland. That’s one way to ensure their predictions come true.
Genuinely evil.
The problem with destroying our society is that we are all entirely reliant on it for our survival. The Netherlands, Canada, and now the US are actively shutting down farms or have plans to do so in the name of global warming. I literally find it hard to articulate how irrational this is. Have they not learned from the failure of green energy policies? People in the third world at the end of the food chain will starve to death. I have a hard time understanding if these people are so profoundly marinated in their own sanctity bubble they don’t understand this – or are they genuinely evil? Because starving millions of people to death today to save the planet from some hypothetical (and completely exaggerated) future is evil. It does make you put your tinfoil hat on and wonder if people dying it in fact the true goal of the exercise.
The massive expansion of education especially arts degrees in Western World since the late 1960s has produced vast numbers of middle class people with no practical and constructive skills. This has induced a sense of inadequacy and futility. If they had engineering skills they could design waste, sewage and water treatment plants in the various slums in the developing world and reduce child mortality. However, they have taken the easy route of studying arts degrees.
Well, as one of those arts degrees types married to another, I can tell you, there’s nothing easy about being a working artist, which we have been for over 40 years.
If use the word Arts in the British sense. The technical standards of training in the visual arts, such as painting declined once anatomy was no longer compulsory which occurred post WW1. Compare skills of post WW1 artists with those of the Renaissance such as Michelangelo.
In engineering mistakes can kill, either in construction or such events as plane crashes.A friend who worked as a foremen in groundworks said six men had died on sites during his career. Some major engineering disasters.
Vajont Dam – Wikipedia
Brumadinho dam disaster – Wikipedia
Mariana dam disaster – Wikipedia
de Havilland Comet – Wikipedia
I think Charles means or includes Humanities when he says arts degrees, in fact all BAs as opposed to BScs.
If use the word Arts in the British sense. The technical standards of training in the visual arts, such as painting declined once anatomy was no longer compulsory which occurred post WW1. Compare skills of post WW1 artists with those of the Renaissance such as Michelangelo.
In engineering mistakes can kill, either in construction or such events as plane crashes.A friend who worked as a foremen in groundworks said six men had died on sites during his career. Some major engineering disasters.
Vajont Dam – Wikipedia
Brumadinho dam disaster – Wikipedia
Mariana dam disaster – Wikipedia
de Havilland Comet – Wikipedia
I think Charles means or includes Humanities when he says arts degrees, in fact all BAs as opposed to BScs.
Most of the visual art today is appalling. Even young people don’t like it and for the most part don’t attend or tour contemporary galleries, which says a lot. However, as long as the government doesn’t subsidize it and artists can somehow convince people to buy their stuff, let them have at it.
Well, as one of those arts degrees types married to another, I can tell you, there’s nothing easy about being a working artist, which we have been for over 40 years.
Most of the visual art today is appalling. Even young people don’t like it and for the most part don’t attend or tour contemporary galleries, which says a lot. However, as long as the government doesn’t subsidize it and artists can somehow convince people to buy their stuff, let them have at it.
The massive expansion of education especially arts degrees in Western World since the late 1960s has produced vast numbers of middle class people with no practical and constructive skills. This has induced a sense of inadequacy and futility. If they had engineering skills they could design waste, sewage and water treatment plants in the various slums in the developing world and reduce child mortality. However, they have taken the easy route of studying arts degrees.
Coincidentally it was only a few days ago that I realised one could interpret these moronic acts of vandalism as a warning that we could lose all our cultural heritage if the climate crisis turns out to be as bad as it potentially could be… and that angered me as it is an annoyingly charitable interpretation which is quite neat in its own way. BUT I’m not aware of these protesters ever having articulated that point – it always seems to be a simple tactic of generating headlines. Also, even if the seas do rise we can always just move the paintings to a higher location; although Venice might be a trickier prospect.
Rest assured the ‘climate crisis ‘ is a figment of their fervent Doomsday, end of times imaginations. It’s their pseudo religion.
If anyone in authority was seriously concerned about dramatic temperature increases, and consequent sea level rises, we might have expected a far more proactive approach to protection of land and property in, for instance, Lincolnshire and the East Anglian coast, the East Seaboard of the USA and , of course, hyper precious Venice.
The same ecoloons are full on in trying to stop us using our cars, but appear to show little or no interest in raising concerns about our tangibly deteriorating public transport services, or promoting improvement in the cycling network.
Rest assured the ‘climate crisis ‘ is a figment of their fervent Doomsday, end of times imaginations. It’s their pseudo religion.
If anyone in authority was seriously concerned about dramatic temperature increases, and consequent sea level rises, we might have expected a far more proactive approach to protection of land and property in, for instance, Lincolnshire and the East Anglian coast, the East Seaboard of the USA and , of course, hyper precious Venice.
The same ecoloons are full on in trying to stop us using our cars, but appear to show little or no interest in raising concerns about our tangibly deteriorating public transport services, or promoting improvement in the cycling network.
Coincidentally it was only a few days ago that I realised one could interpret these moronic acts of vandalism as a warning that we could lose all our cultural heritage if the climate crisis turns out to be as bad as it potentially could be… and that angered me as it is an annoyingly charitable interpretation which is quite neat in its own way. BUT I’m not aware of these protesters ever having articulated that point – it always seems to be a simple tactic of generating headlines. Also, even if the seas do rise we can always just move the paintings to a higher location; although Venice might be a trickier prospect.
For some, it’s easier to pull everyone down to their level than to rise up and meet the tide.
For some, it’s easier to pull everyone down to their level than to rise up and meet the tide.
Sorry, but no. These infants aren’t interested in ending oil (deny them products made from fossil fuels to see how sincere they are), or making a statement about cultural rot. They are exhibitionist brats engaged in acts of destruction because they can – there are no consequences. Prosecute and throw the in jail, and this sh*t stops.
But we don’t and won’t. Why not? Half of those in authority are sort of sympathetic, the other half aren’t that bothered.
But we don’t and won’t. Why not? Half of those in authority are sort of sympathetic, the other half aren’t that bothered.
Sorry, but no. These infants aren’t interested in ending oil (deny them products made from fossil fuels to see how sincere they are), or making a statement about cultural rot. They are exhibitionist brats engaged in acts of destruction because they can – there are no consequences. Prosecute and throw the in jail, and this sh*t stops.
It’s the latter. It’s so obviously the latter that it’s barely worth writing about. f*****g philistines. They need to be publicly flogged.
It’s the latter. It’s so obviously the latter that it’s barely worth writing about. f*****g philistines. They need to be publicly flogged.
Hell’s bells! Talk about overthinking something!
But, surely, you must should congratulate Mary for finding some sort of ‘meaning’ in all this childish acting out. I think she credits them with a lot more rationality than they possess, however.
But, surely, you must should congratulate Mary for finding some sort of ‘meaning’ in all this childish acting out. I think she credits them with a lot more rationality than they possess, however.
Hell’s bells! Talk about overthinking something!
Good to see a cop doing some proper manhandling of these cretins.
Good to see a cop doing some proper manhandling of these cretins.
Western civilization has descended to a condition that could best be described as cultural dead man walking.
Western civilization has descended to a condition that could best be described as cultural dead man walking.
A month is a pillory would help these people out.
A month is a pillory would help these people out.
Time served in jail equivalent to the value of the art destroyed or the cost of its restoration. No negotiation. Place of detention determined by your biological sex. No pardons. The sentence stays on your record till you’re 90.
Time served in jail equivalent to the value of the art destroyed or the cost of its restoration. No negotiation. Place of detention determined by your biological sex. No pardons. The sentence stays on your record till you’re 90.
Compare and contrast these people with Boyan Slat
Compare and contrast these people with Boyan Slat
Incurvatus in se.
‘Scripture describes man as so curved in upon himself that he uses not only physical but even spiritual goods for his own purposes and in all things seeks only himself’ – Martin Luther
Incurvatus in se.
‘Scripture describes man as so curved in upon himself that he uses not only physical but even spiritual goods for his own purposes and in all things seeks only himself’ – Martin Luther
These peole even manage to get themselves a POLICE escort whilst slow-walking on the Kings Highway. I thought obstructing that was illegal! – It seems the othere day some guy – got himself arrested and flung against his van – for taking their posters from them!
They are nothign more than vandals and disrputers whose activities should be dealt with as The Law already provides.
These people may have only one brain-cell and dont thi ng things through – Imagine if Oil Just Stopped – (”Just like that” – as someone quite famous once said)
I have been wondering the same thing – I thought there was an ancient law against obstructing the King’s Highway or something like that. I remember, many years ago, young people were frequently ‘moved on’ under threat of being arrested for obstruction for just hanging around on street corners talking to friends.
I have been wondering the same thing – I thought there was an ancient law against obstructing the King’s Highway or something like that. I remember, many years ago, young people were frequently ‘moved on’ under threat of being arrested for obstruction for just hanging around on street corners talking to friends.
These peole even manage to get themselves a POLICE escort whilst slow-walking on the Kings Highway. I thought obstructing that was illegal! – It seems the othere day some guy – got himself arrested and flung against his van – for taking their posters from them!
They are nothign more than vandals and disrputers whose activities should be dealt with as The Law already provides.
These people may have only one brain-cell and dont thi ng things through – Imagine if Oil Just Stopped – (”Just like that” – as someone quite famous once said)
This execrable movement is a deeply misanthropic, ecofascist death cult. Extinction Rebellion, Just Stop Oil and all their many offshoots hate humanity, modernity and, by extension, man-made culture.
This execrable movement is a deeply misanthropic, ecofascist death cult. Extinction Rebellion, Just Stop Oil and all their many offshoots hate humanity, modernity and, by extension, man-made culture.
For environmental protesters, it’s pretty ironic that they choose to use charcoal…made by cutting down trees and burning them in the absence of oxygen while giving off carbon gas.
For environmental protesters, it’s pretty ironic that they choose to use charcoal…made by cutting down trees and burning them in the absence of oxygen while giving off carbon gas.
The same is happening here in Australia, not so much desecration of cultural icons more likely to be gluing themselves to roads or suspending themselves from bridges. Even those who fully understand their concerns don’t understand how blocking traffic will help their cause.
The same is happening here in Australia, not so much desecration of cultural icons more likely to be gluing themselves to roads or suspending themselves from bridges. Even those who fully understand their concerns don’t understand how blocking traffic will help their cause.
Utter bullcrap, and a gutless accommodation for narcissistic vandals.
Utter bullcrap, and a gutless accommodation for narcissistic vandals.
Too many big words to describe something far simpler, as others have described below.
Too many big words to describe something far simpler, as others have described below.
How I wish that these creatures had an enemy of some sort, who would provide some sport by ambushing them?
These kids learned something from the Taliban…
See you must yourself be great if you can leverage your ideology to justify your destruction of great cultural markers…
Sort out of like lunatic far Right gun nuts that shoot up malls….
Pathetic.
Well said
Mary E Harrington / Paul Kingsnorth – the anti-progress voices increasingly dominating UnHerd’s worldview. Particularly appealing to those who recoil in horror a the sight of a factory or cringe at the thought of any engineering that isn’t blessed with the twin virtues of greenness and sustainability. At this rate UnHerd will soon be the house journal for Extinction Rebellion/Just Stop Oil.
It’s about time we celebrated the enormous contribution fossil fuels have made to civilisation – if only as a counterbalance to the relentless bleat-&-squeak of the eco-romanticists and their allies in the creative world.
Isn’t that something of a misreading of those two writers?
I’m not sure how you’ve managed to read this article in particular in that way. Lumping those “in the creative world” in with eco-romanticists is also a huge oversimplification. Isn’t “the creative world” what most people would consider very much part of civilisation?
Spot on Steve – It’s about time you wrote an article for UnHerd.
Thanks Ian. I’d find writing for publication too much of a distraction from my work as a visual artist, reaching out towards something which goes beyond words. Joining in the clamour of Unherd Comments is enough!
Thanks Ian. I’d find writing for publication too much of a distraction from my work as a visual artist, reaching out towards something which goes beyond words. Joining in the clamour of Unherd Comments is enough!
Don’t be so tentative. Is it a misreading or just something of a misreading?
Anyway, try reading the last three paragraphs of Ms Harrington’s piece again and see if you can tell where her sympathies lie – allowing for a measure of fence-sitting (a vice afflicting those intellectuals shy of too much commitment lest they find themselves on the wrong side of history). Consider also an interview she had with the Triggernometry boys back in July 2021 titled ‘I Don’t Believe In Progress’. It’s still available on YouTube if you are interested. Towards the end (57 minutes in) she praises Extinction Rebellion founder Roger Hallam.
Have you not noticed how enthusiastic our creative class (artists, writers, actors, TV program makers film makers etc etc) are about the whole eco-agenda? There’s no need for me to lump them together with the eco-romanticists they manage that themselves by natural inclination.
And yes, the creative world is very much part of civilisation but it includes far more that mere artistic expression. The development of powered flght in the 120 years since Kittyhawk should count as a tremendous (beautiful even) human achievement – but what is it for the eco-romantics? Just a moral question perhaps – violation of the environment? Mankind’s greed?
I’m worried that UnHerd really is evolving into a congenial gathering of the like-minded – a cosy club if you will – where failure to applaud certain favoured writers and their ideas causes discomfort among the punters.
It’s possible to agree with or disagree with each individual article, regardless of the writer. There may be a few sycophants but in general, we’re all capable of making our own minds up and expressing our views. If you’re worried about Unherd evolving into anything other than what it is, the answer isn’t to post a comment in disagreement just for the sake of it, especially where the comment is clouded with confusion.
I don’t want to wrangle with anyone about who’s who in the ranks of political combatants, either at UnHerd or anywhere else, but I do want to thank you, N, for making it clear that creativity is not by any means confined to what we call “artists.” This has always been true, and it’s obviously true now.
Scientists have certainly been creative, often at great risk, for thousands of years. Ditto for philosophers, theologians, inventors and so on. Some new ways of perceiving or thinking prove helpful and others dangerous, which is why ambiguity is built into creativity.
Many artists, on the other hand, have cheerfully conformed to the instructions or expectations of their patrons–or, in our time, to the prevailing cynicism of fashionable ideologies. Deconstruction is all the rage among avant-garde artists today and has been for well over half a century. Under other names, in fact, it has been de rigueur since the days postimpressionism–that is, long before the rise of postmodernism. The goal is invariably to “interrogate,” “subvert,” “transgress” or otherwise undermine some feature of Western civilization. Some people call this creative. I call much of it destructive. Avant-gardism, as an end in itself (“art for art’s sake”), is no longer even innovative at all but, on the contrary, fashionable.
On and On the discussion raves. There is only one problem that is causing ALL the other problems. It’s POPULATION growth!!!! Too many people for the planet to feed –house and supply with all the necessities of life. Too many people causing wars–pandemics–inflation migrations –etc. If the ENTIRE world does not get it’s population growth STOPPED we are doomed to continue toward an inescapable self imposed destruction
Funny how we now have people railing against the opposite phenomenon! Human beings are seemingly addicted to doom mongering. The world population is rapidly slowing with an average number of children per woman hardly now more than two, and as incomes grow, as they are in general, girls in particular get better educated and healthcare improves, family size is likely to shrink further.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/total-fertility-rate
Anyway, population per se entirely ignores the environmental impact per person which is vastly different between someone living in Europe or the United States and someone in Africa. This is a perfectly rational point which population growth Cassandras never answer
That is why your point of view gets treated with a certain amount of justified suspicion, in my view.
Funny how we now have people railing against the opposite phenomenon! Human beings are seemingly addicted to doom mongering. The world population is rapidly slowing with an average number of children per woman hardly now more than two, and as incomes grow, as they are in general, girls in particular get better educated and healthcare improves, family size is likely to shrink further.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/total-fertility-rate
Anyway, population per se entirely ignores the environmental impact per person which is vastly different between someone living in Europe or the United States and someone in Africa. This is a perfectly rational point which population growth Cassandras never answer
That is why your point of view gets treated with a certain amount of justified suspicion, in my view.
On and On the discussion raves. There is only one problem that is causing ALL the other problems. It’s POPULATION growth!!!! Too many people for the planet to feed –house and supply with all the necessities of life. Too many people causing wars–pandemics–inflation migrations –etc. If the ENTIRE world does not get it’s population growth STOPPED we are doomed to continue toward an inescapable self imposed destruction
“Shoot the messenger” springs to mind. I suppose a few of us are slightly amazed at your attack line here. UnHerd doesn’t have a single editorial point of view, but in any case providing a possible reading of the protestor’s possible motivations (and even a meta-explanation – beyond the specific conscious motivation of the protagonists), isn’t to agree with the protestors. It’s amazing how often journalists and writers get attacked in that way.
Although I agree with you in general terms about human industrial progress, most people have some sort of unease about man’s environmental impacts on the natural world – which are undoubtedly great (and probably inevitable – there is no such thing really as sustainability in the way the word is used).
But in any case it’s missing a lot to target only the ‘creative class” – I haven’t heard too many scientists risking raising their heads above the parapet on this undoubted groupthink, any more than any are averring that no, you can’t change your biological sex!
It’s possible to agree with or disagree with each individual article, regardless of the writer. There may be a few sycophants but in general, we’re all capable of making our own minds up and expressing our views. If you’re worried about Unherd evolving into anything other than what it is, the answer isn’t to post a comment in disagreement just for the sake of it, especially where the comment is clouded with confusion.
I don’t want to wrangle with anyone about who’s who in the ranks of political combatants, either at UnHerd or anywhere else, but I do want to thank you, N, for making it clear that creativity is not by any means confined to what we call “artists.” This has always been true, and it’s obviously true now.
Scientists have certainly been creative, often at great risk, for thousands of years. Ditto for philosophers, theologians, inventors and so on. Some new ways of perceiving or thinking prove helpful and others dangerous, which is why ambiguity is built into creativity.
Many artists, on the other hand, have cheerfully conformed to the instructions or expectations of their patrons–or, in our time, to the prevailing cynicism of fashionable ideologies. Deconstruction is all the rage among avant-garde artists today and has been for well over half a century. Under other names, in fact, it has been de rigueur since the days postimpressionism–that is, long before the rise of postmodernism. The goal is invariably to “interrogate,” “subvert,” “transgress” or otherwise undermine some feature of Western civilization. Some people call this creative. I call much of it destructive. Avant-gardism, as an end in itself (“art for art’s sake”), is no longer even innovative at all but, on the contrary, fashionable.
“Shoot the messenger” springs to mind. I suppose a few of us are slightly amazed at your attack line here. UnHerd doesn’t have a single editorial point of view, but in any case providing a possible reading of the protestor’s possible motivations (and even a meta-explanation – beyond the specific conscious motivation of the protagonists), isn’t to agree with the protestors. It’s amazing how often journalists and writers get attacked in that way.
Although I agree with you in general terms about human industrial progress, most people have some sort of unease about man’s environmental impacts on the natural world – which are undoubtedly great (and probably inevitable – there is no such thing really as sustainability in the way the word is used).
But in any case it’s missing a lot to target only the ‘creative class” – I haven’t heard too many scientists risking raising their heads above the parapet on this undoubted groupthink, any more than any are averring that no, you can’t change your biological sex!
Spot on Steve – It’s about time you wrote an article for UnHerd.
Don’t be so tentative. Is it a misreading or just something of a misreading?
Anyway, try reading the last three paragraphs of Ms Harrington’s piece again and see if you can tell where her sympathies lie – allowing for a measure of fence-sitting (a vice afflicting those intellectuals shy of too much commitment lest they find themselves on the wrong side of history). Consider also an interview she had with the Triggernometry boys back in July 2021 titled ‘I Don’t Believe In Progress’. It’s still available on YouTube if you are interested. Towards the end (57 minutes in) she praises Extinction Rebellion founder Roger Hallam.
Have you not noticed how enthusiastic our creative class (artists, writers, actors, TV program makers film makers etc etc) are about the whole eco-agenda? There’s no need for me to lump them together with the eco-romanticists they manage that themselves by natural inclination.
And yes, the creative world is very much part of civilisation but it includes far more that mere artistic expression. The development of powered flght in the 120 years since Kittyhawk should count as a tremendous (beautiful even) human achievement – but what is it for the eco-romantics? Just a moral question perhaps – violation of the environment? Mankind’s greed?
I’m worried that UnHerd really is evolving into a congenial gathering of the like-minded – a cosy club if you will – where failure to applaud certain favoured writers and their ideas causes discomfort among the punters.
I’m not quite sure why you are attacking Mary Harrington here. We can all rant about this, she looks more obliquely at social phenomena and makes a good attempt to put this one into a cultural context. It would be quite tedious to hear variations on one loud voice on the subject “pampered, idiots, attention seekers, flog them…, Much as I have sympathy for those reactions.
These people do actually emanate from our culture, unfortunately. We have had nihilistic cults before, including in the Middle Ages, which were eventually crushed by the authorities.
Isn’t that something of a misreading of those two writers?
I’m not sure how you’ve managed to read this article in particular in that way. Lumping those “in the creative world” in with eco-romanticists is also a huge oversimplification. Isn’t “the creative world” what most people would consider very much part of civilisation?
I’m not quite sure why you are attacking Mary Harrington here. We can all rant about this, she looks more obliquely at social phenomena and makes a good attempt to put this one into a cultural context. It would be quite tedious to hear variations on one loud voice on the subject “pampered, idiots, attention seekers, flog them…, Much as I have sympathy for those reactions.
These people do actually emanate from our culture, unfortunately. We have had nihilistic cults before, including in the Middle Ages, which were eventually crushed by the authorities.
Mary E Harrington / Paul Kingsnorth – the anti-progress voices increasingly dominating UnHerd’s worldview. Particularly appealing to those who recoil in horror a the sight of a factory or cringe at the thought of any engineering that isn’t blessed with the twin virtues of greenness and sustainability. At this rate UnHerd will soon be the house journal for Extinction Rebellion/Just Stop Oil.
It’s about time we celebrated the enormous contribution fossil fuels have made to civilisation – if only as a counterbalance to the relentless bleat-&-squeak of the eco-romanticists and their allies in the creative world.