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Tofu won’t save the planet It might be right-on but it isn't green

“Nobody ever said, ‘I could murder a nice juicy lump of tofu’” Credit: Visual China Group via Getty Images/Visual China Group via Getty Images

“Nobody ever said, ‘I could murder a nice juicy lump of tofu’” Credit: Visual China Group via Getty Images/Visual China Group via Getty Images


December 2, 2022   6 mins

Planning the Christmas lunch yet? If you are vegan you’ve doubtless got tofu in there somewhere, perhaps served up with a sauce made piquant with a tablespoon of smugness. After all, going “plant-based” will save the planet from climate change, whereas we meat-eating ignorati are murdering you, and nature, and the air we breathe. Britain’s very own Climate Tsar, Alok Sharma, when asked on BBC Newscast recently about his family’s personal contribution to fighting global warming, flailed around before playing the get-out-of-jail-free, no-meat card.

Is it not curious how carnivorism is subject to endless negative news and analysis, whereas the same rules do not apply to vegan food? As a keeper of livestock in sustainable, ethical, regenerative farming systems, may I say I find it hypocritical to be lectured by those who fly on polluting jets to Egypt, Mexico, Peru and other places I will never see? Has the COP jamboree not discovered Zoom yet? So, for once, let us turn the dinner tables, put vegan food under the knife and fork, and examine its impact on the environment. Where better to start than with tofu?

An ancient, soya-based ingredient in Asian cuisine, tofu came to the West with stoned returning hippies, and was an obscure item in Whole Food shops until the early 21st century, when it started to appear on the shelves of every middle-class supermarket as the meat-free, climate-healing superfood. Suella Braverman’s recent rant about “Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati” was not without its truth; tofu is as much a right-on political choice as a potential ingredient in tonight’s family dinner.

Tofu, for those unacquainted with the stuff, is curd made from soybeans that have been soaked in large tanks and churned into a slush, which is then heated, filtered and coagulated into slabs, before being chopped up, packaged, and pasteurised. All these steps require a lot of carbon dioxide-emitting energy.

The amount of soybeans grown in the UK is negligible (3,000 tons in 2019: our isles are insufficiently warm for the crop), meaning the soybeans imported for any national tofu-maker come with enough travel miles to get them from Japan, say, or the US. The Tofoo Co. might come over all artisanal  — their tofu is made “int Yorkshire”, as they declare on their website — but the raw product is shipped from Canada and Italy.

Then you have the packaging. Tofu is sloppy, wet stuff, invariably sold wrapped in thick plastic you could use as kids’ shoes at the beach. Selflessly, your author, in the interests of “method research”, ate 200g of Bjorg smoked tofu; the plastic packing weighed 10g, actually measurable on analogue kitchen scales.

The Tofoo Co., meanwhile, earnestly informs us: “We don’t pack ours in a ready meal tray in water (the only other way we know tofu can be packed) as we think thermoforming gives a MUCH BETTER, less soggy product, that is ready to eat.” (Amusing, no? They admit tofu is inevtiably soggy, even if you can get less soggy versions.) But “thermoform packaging”, lovely as it sounds, is plastic, and plastic is derived from fossil fuels. The production process involves heating plastic until it is pliable — can you imagine the kilowats of energy required? And extraordinarily, you cannot recycle Tofoo’s wrapping.

Despite all this, if you run “tofu” through the BBC’s climate change food calculator, you will be informed that your “personal consumption” accounts for 12kg to your annual greenhouse gas emissions, on the basis of two servings a week. Two servings of beef come out at a whopping 604 kg per year. A clear win for tofu? Well, no.

The BBC calculator is based on work by Oxford-based environmentalist scientist, Joseph Poore. He who appeared in a promo for the “Go Vegan for Lent” campaign, organised by pressure group Million Dollar Vegan. Poore’s claims to have calculated the universal carbon footprint of an entire food type based on air miles and packaging, as well as production, are nonsensical: it is impossible to do so, given the diversity of packaging and the global nature of distribution. (Were your onions loose and local, or from Spain wrapped in a nylon net?)

Worse, climate change calculators based on crude protein or calories, such as the BBC’s, are flawed in a way that would be amusing if the consequences were not tragic. Tofu has a seemingly respectable 10g of protein per 100g — but not all protein is equal. For humans, soy protein is less digestible than meat protein. In other words, you have to eat proportionately more tofu to get the same protein allowance. Tofu also has significantly less riboflavin, niacin, pantothenic acid, vitamin B6 and vitamin B12 than meat. To make up these deficiencies, tofu-eaters have to either take supplements, or eat additional food — both of which produce greenhouse gases. The Vegan Society, for instance, encourages any breastfeeding meat-free mothers to take supplements of B12, iodine, vitamin D and omega-3, as well as to increase their calcium intake.

The deficiencies of tofu go beyond its nutritional value. The stuff is tasteless: although venerated by vegans, in classic Asian dishes such as Mapo tofu, the tofu is actually mixed with meat in the hope it will imbibe meat’s tastiness. Tofu is used as filler. Nobody ever said: “I could murder a nice juicy lump of tofu.” The result of this tastelessness is that consumers in the US throw away 30.5% of all tofu purchased; this food waste increases its environmental impact by a whopping 43.9%. The figure for meat thrown away is 20%.

By now you may understand why the Rothamsted Institute’s Dr Graham McAuliffe, an expert on modelling the environmental impacts of food over their lifecycle, has concluded that:

“If you look at tofu, which is processed so there is more energy going into its production, when you correct for the fact that the protein in it is not as digestible compared to the meat-based products, you can see that it could actually have a higher global warming potential than any of the monogastric animals. To get the same amount of protein, tofu is worse.”

On and on goes the list of tofu’s environmental sins. While it is true that most soy grown in Brazil goes to animal feed, some makes its slippery way into the human food chain, and thus into tofu — so add deforestation of the Amazon to that list. If you’re eating it in the UK, tofu from the tree-felled Amazon would cost you double the amount of CO2 than chicken farmed on these isles.

According to the dear old BBC food calculator, “even the most climate-friendly meat options still produce more greenhouse gases than vegetarian protein sources”. The same lie is broadcast by groupthink governments and the vested interests of the Big Vegan food industry. It’s a lie because you can buy meat from a grass-based, carbon-neutral provider. Indeed, you can buy meat from farmers who, due to sensitive, sustainable pasture management, are sinking more carbon dioxide than their operations emit. You can buy meat wrapped in paper from a butcher, meat which comes from a carbon-neutral factory.

Also, cows produce manure, which feeds insects: an organic, outdoor cow feeds more than 2 million insects a year, dramatically aiding biodiversity as well as the soil. Manure can reduce, or even eliminate, the need for artificial fertiliser, which is responsible for no less than 2.1% of global GHG emissions. Most soy, meanwhile, is chemically drenched. Indeed, the story of contemporary soy production is the biography of agri-business giant Monsanto and its patented, controversial weed-killers.

Back in the mid-Nineties, Monsanto’s chemists genetically engineered soy to be immune to sprayings from Roundup, a herbicide supplied by… Monsanto. The Roundup Ready soybean could effectively only be grown with applications of the company’s glyphosate weed-killer. However, weeds being weeds proved resistant to Roundup. So in 2015, Monsanto began producing soybean seeds, branded “Roundup Ready Xtend”, engineered to tolerate dosings of both glyphosate and another chemical, dicamba.

Let’s be clear: genetically modified soy, specifically developed to withstand one Earth-polluting chemical, was sprayed, when yield dwindled, with another Earth-polluting chemical. Anything sprayed with both Roundup and dicamba certainly died — including soy not grown from Monsanto-supplied beans. Farmers not using them soon discovered such was the drift from the volatile dicamba that if they were within half a mile of other farmers using it, their crop was impacted.

According to the US Environmental Protection Agency, there were 3,300 dicamba “incidents” in 2019 alone. Faced with a choice of no crop or Monsanto crop, US soy farmers shifted en masse to being Monsanto clients. The report of the US Center for Food Safety on soy, Monsanto, and the “dicamba debacle” makes for sobering reading:

“Sprayed in large quantities over-the-top of resistant crops in the summertime heat, dicamba vaporised and drifted long distances to cause enormous damage across the landscape… Pesticide expert Andrew Thostenson of North Dakota State University said it was unlike anything that ‘has ever happened in the history of pesticide use in this country’.”

Today, around 94% of the world’s soy is genetically engineered, mostly to be resistant to Monsanto’s Roundup. Alas, as Roundup’s efficacy diminishes, the more it gets sprayed; soybean farmers are currently doubling glyphosate applications per season. Soybeans produced on commercial farms in the USA, Brazil and Argentina accumulate an estimated 2,500–10,000 metric tonnes of glyphosate per year. The adverse effects of glyphosate and dicamba on the environment only begin with the destruction of soil microflora, bee colonies, and aquatic organisms.

Anybody who believes that tofu is a green alternative to meat has no idea how industrialised soybean farming works. Anybody who believes it has a light carbon footprint needs to look again. The soybean is the most environmentally dangerous agricultural crop in the world, and the production of tofu is a drain on our precious resources. The thermoform packets of tofu on the shelf of your local supermarket ought to come served with a warning: this product is harmful to the Earth’s health.


John Lewis-Stempel is a farmer and writer on nature and history. His most recent books are The Sheep’s Tale and Nightwalking.

JLewisStempel

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J Bryant
J Bryant
2 years ago

A very informative article. Thank you. Sadly, it is probably impossible to present this information in any mainstream print or electronic publication.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  J Bryant

As you say, tofu is as woke as BLM so you could never print this. The article is great as a fight back but, although I sort of agree with the ideas of the author, it doesn’t really hold water.
Firstly, like everyone else, I know quite a few vegans and always ask them, “Why?”. I haven’t found one yet who talked about the environmental issues. All go a little wet-eyed and say, “Just think about the cruelty to animals in farming.” I am sure there are some very fine, caring, farmers but there are also some very cruel ones.
Secondly, most countries can’t grow all of their own meat and there has to be a lot of cling-filming and transport to get it safely into my stomach. Supermarkets are bringing in meat from all over the world and it might well have been treated to increase the length of time of storage. I am an avid reader of ingredients and ‘preservative’ appears more often than not.
The third thought for me is that the world could go vegan for 50 years and nobody knows what the long-term health implications would be. True, in countries like India veganism has been around for many years but we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu. So to change to a tofu-diet there would be huge education requirements.
When all this was happening and the cities were slowly being tofucated, there would be a black market of farmers shooting rabbits in the countryside until the last rabbit disappeared. Eggs would be selling at $20 each and people would be hiding the hens in their houses. Just like 500 years ago, in fact. Wonderful times!!

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Weird, isn’t it? I get a comment box on some articles but not others. It seems entirely random.

Stuart Sutherland
Stuart Sutherland
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Yes I’ve noticed that too!

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
2 years ago

Same problem here. Very strange.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
2 years ago

Same problem here. Very strange.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Do you use more than one input tool? If I don’t get a comment box on my phone I can use my IPad – and vice versa. I just switch between the two.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Unherd does have some bugs. I find reloading the page usually solves the problem. Failing that, restart the computer and fix a gin martini whilst you are waiting.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I don’t have one here, or in any of the preceding articles. UnHerd really needs to fix this.

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I “reply” to an existing comment. Don’t bother posting it unless I have something to say. Then refresh and try “join the discussion” once again. Usually works.

Stuart Sutherland
Stuart Sutherland
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Yes I’ve noticed that too!

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Do you use more than one input tool? If I don’t get a comment box on my phone I can use my IPad – and vice versa. I just switch between the two.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Unherd does have some bugs. I find reloading the page usually solves the problem. Failing that, restart the computer and fix a gin martini whilst you are waiting.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I don’t have one here, or in any of the preceding articles. UnHerd really needs to fix this.

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I “reply” to an existing comment. Don’t bother posting it unless I have something to say. Then refresh and try “join the discussion” once again. Usually works.

Michael Francis
Michael Francis
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

“. . . we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu.”
Why not both? Or all of the above? I went vegan after experiencing some health problems. Clogged arteries.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago

‘here’ in the sentence meant – in India. Yes, you could use both.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago

‘here’ in the sentence meant – in India. Yes, you could use both.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

“countries like India veganism has been around for many years”
No, countries like India have been vegetarian. Milk and milk products are a central part of the diet for everyone. (I believe vegans are not very fond of milk?)

And that’s not the only difference. Vegetarians in India view that as a personal choice, and don’t see themselves as “saving” the world.

And there is a lot of emphasis on cooking vegetarian food well (India has by far the best and most varied veggie food in the world) rather than “converting” non veggies with melodrama and weird “veggie” meat products mimicking meat.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

What is tofu? not on my club luncheon menu alongside Partridge and potted shrimps?

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago

Your “partridge surprise” is made of tofu. Oh, the times we live in!

Chris W
Chris W
2 years ago

I saw some ‘bacon’ in a supermarket yesterday. It was tofucated bacon. It looked absolutely revolting. Better to eat a slice of tofu without the disguise.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris W

I’d rather eat tongue than tofu, and I’d rather starve than eat tongue.

Simon Flynn
Simon Flynn
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris W

.
And I tried some recently, as it was marked down.
.
I can confirm that – as well as looking revolting – it tasted totally and utterly revolting.
.
Never again.
.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris W

I’d rather eat tongue than tofu, and I’d rather starve than eat tongue.

Simon Flynn
Simon Flynn
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris W

.
And I tried some recently, as it was marked down.
.
I can confirm that – as well as looking revolting – it tasted totally and utterly revolting.
.
Never again.
.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago

Your “partridge surprise” is made of tofu. Oh, the times we live in!

Chris W
Chris W
2 years ago

I saw some ‘bacon’ in a supermarket yesterday. It was tofucated bacon. It looked absolutely revolting. Better to eat a slice of tofu without the disguise.

Alexander Foden-Norris
Alexander Foden-Norris
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Your opinion is mainstream. The vast majority of people eat meat and ignore the clear and present danger to all creatures on earth by habitat destruction, diseases incubated in factory farms etc.
These are not wonderful times.

Isabel Ward
Isabel Ward
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

No, in India they are vegetarians NOT vegans. Further it has been found a very high proportion of them have a B12 deficiency.

Laura Kelly
Laura Kelly
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

About Indian vegetarianism, traditional Indian farmers weren’t very good at keeping vermin out of their storage buildings and their “vegan” foods were replete with plenty of insects. They didn’t need B12 supplements because they got enough animal protein from the bugs.

Last edited 2 years ago by Laura Kelly
John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

A. Tofu a been eaten for centuries in China. Contrary to the assumptions of the Daily Telegraph, it wasn’t invented last week by a 19 year-old trans Guardian-reader in Hackney.
B. Nobody, anywhere, is suggesting an all-tofu diet.
C. India has no major tradition of veganism. You’re thinking of vegetarianism.
D. Rabbits in much of Britain have been decimated by Rabbit Haemorrhagic Disease, so you won’t need to wait for vegans to blame for their demise.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Weird, isn’t it? I get a comment box on some articles but not others. It seems entirely random.

Michael Francis
Michael Francis
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

“. . . we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu.”
Why not both? Or all of the above? I went vegan after experiencing some health problems. Clogged arteries.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

“countries like India veganism has been around for many years”
No, countries like India have been vegetarian. Milk and milk products are a central part of the diet for everyone. (I believe vegans are not very fond of milk?)

And that’s not the only difference. Vegetarians in India view that as a personal choice, and don’t see themselves as “saving” the world.

And there is a lot of emphasis on cooking vegetarian food well (India has by far the best and most varied veggie food in the world) rather than “converting” non veggies with melodrama and weird “veggie” meat products mimicking meat.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

What is tofu? not on my club luncheon menu alongside Partridge and potted shrimps?

Alexander Foden-Norris
Alexander Foden-Norris
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Your opinion is mainstream. The vast majority of people eat meat and ignore the clear and present danger to all creatures on earth by habitat destruction, diseases incubated in factory farms etc.
These are not wonderful times.

Isabel Ward
Isabel Ward
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

No, in India they are vegetarians NOT vegans. Further it has been found a very high proportion of them have a B12 deficiency.

Laura Kelly
Laura Kelly
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

About Indian vegetarianism, traditional Indian farmers weren’t very good at keeping vermin out of their storage buildings and their “vegan” foods were replete with plenty of insects. They didn’t need B12 supplements because they got enough animal protein from the bugs.

Last edited 2 years ago by Laura Kelly
John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

A. Tofu a been eaten for centuries in China. Contrary to the assumptions of the Daily Telegraph, it wasn’t invented last week by a 19 year-old trans Guardian-reader in Hackney.
B. Nobody, anywhere, is suggesting an all-tofu diet.
C. India has no major tradition of veganism. You’re thinking of vegetarianism.
D. Rabbits in much of Britain have been decimated by Rabbit Haemorrhagic Disease, so you won’t need to wait for vegans to blame for their demise.

Russell Hamilton
Russell Hamilton
2 years ago
Reply to  J Bryant

The wondrous BBC food calculator reminded me of the way Australia calculates our impressive improvements towards net zero, i.e. fake calculations.

Being a vegetarian, and having lived for years in Asia, I have eaten my fair share of tofu (and even pronounce it dough (as in bread)-fu) but have never, ever bought it for myself: tasteless, insipid texture, and all the issues mentioned in the article. Tempe is another thing altogether – easy to fry up and smother with tomato sauce.

I’m ‘replying’ to your comment because I don’t get a comment box anymore.

Last edited 2 years ago by Russell Hamilton
polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago

Reload the page and if that doesn’t work restart your machine. Sometimes clearing the browser cache seems to work, though that is probably a coincidence.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago

Reload the page and if that doesn’t work restart your machine. Sometimes clearing the browser cache seems to work, though that is probably a coincidence.

Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
2 years ago
Reply to  J Bryant

Very good article. Let down slightly by ignoring the excesses of industrial meat farming. Pots anf kettles. (I loathe Tofu)

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  J Bryant

As you say, tofu is as woke as BLM so you could never print this. The article is great as a fight back but, although I sort of agree with the ideas of the author, it doesn’t really hold water.
Firstly, like everyone else, I know quite a few vegans and always ask them, “Why?”. I haven’t found one yet who talked about the environmental issues. All go a little wet-eyed and say, “Just think about the cruelty to animals in farming.” I am sure there are some very fine, caring, farmers but there are also some very cruel ones.
Secondly, most countries can’t grow all of their own meat and there has to be a lot of cling-filming and transport to get it safely into my stomach. Supermarkets are bringing in meat from all over the world and it might well have been treated to increase the length of time of storage. I am an avid reader of ingredients and ‘preservative’ appears more often than not.
The third thought for me is that the world could go vegan for 50 years and nobody knows what the long-term health implications would be. True, in countries like India veganism has been around for many years but we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu. So to change to a tofu-diet there would be huge education requirements.
When all this was happening and the cities were slowly being tofucated, there would be a black market of farmers shooting rabbits in the countryside until the last rabbit disappeared. Eggs would be selling at $20 each and people would be hiding the hens in their houses. Just like 500 years ago, in fact. Wonderful times!!

Russell Hamilton
Russell Hamilton
2 years ago
Reply to  J Bryant

The wondrous BBC food calculator reminded me of the way Australia calculates our impressive improvements towards net zero, i.e. fake calculations.

Being a vegetarian, and having lived for years in Asia, I have eaten my fair share of tofu (and even pronounce it dough (as in bread)-fu) but have never, ever bought it for myself: tasteless, insipid texture, and all the issues mentioned in the article. Tempe is another thing altogether – easy to fry up and smother with tomato sauce.

I’m ‘replying’ to your comment because I don’t get a comment box anymore.

Last edited 2 years ago by Russell Hamilton
Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
2 years ago
Reply to  J Bryant

Very good article. Let down slightly by ignoring the excesses of industrial meat farming. Pots anf kettles. (I loathe Tofu)

J Bryant
J Bryant
2 years ago

A very informative article. Thank you. Sadly, it is probably impossible to present this information in any mainstream print or electronic publication.

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago

I await the onslaught of the puritans.

Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

My first thought as well. Eco central must not have sent the email yet.

Matthew Powell
Matthew Powell
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

Remember the last article by this writer? A member I’d never even seen post before clocked 800 upvotes and swamped the comments section.

Last edited 2 years ago by Matthew Powell
Samir Iker
Samir Iker
2 years ago
Reply to  Matthew Powell

I suppose even the likes of “800 likes” environmentalists dint like tofu.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
2 years ago
Reply to  Matthew Powell

I suppose even the likes of “800 likes” environmentalists dint like tofu.

Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

My first thought as well. Eco central must not have sent the email yet.

Matthew Powell
Matthew Powell
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

Remember the last article by this writer? A member I’d never even seen post before clocked 800 upvotes and swamped the comments section.

Last edited 2 years ago by Matthew Powell
Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago

I await the onslaught of the puritans.

Louise Jorgensen
Louise Jorgensen
2 years ago

Ummmm…. More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to animals for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk. Get off the tofu hate bandwagon.

Louise Jorgensen
Louise Jorgensen
2 years ago

Ummmm…. More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to animals for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk. Get off the tofu hate bandwagon.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 years ago

The planet doesn’t need saving. It’s fine.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

And the way to promote your view is to keep talking about a referendum about NetZero. If you think about it, somebody as ridiculous as Sturgeon has become famous by talking about a referendum – a totally trivial one. Referendum, referendum, referendum….

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Chris, you are going ever so slightly weird with this!
Do you say referenda or referendums? I go for referendums.

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
2 years ago
Reply to  polidori redux

referendi, surely?

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

In latin, referendum is not a noun.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

In latin, referendum is not a noun.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
2 years ago
Reply to  polidori redux

My computer’s spell checker seems to regard both as acceptable. I mean that’s how the English language works right? Just accept everything people use regularly and import a bunch of words from every other language until none of it makes any sense.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Your computer’s spell checker is American.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Your computer’s spell checker is American.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  polidori redux

I got out of this by saying referendum, referendum, referendum but it’s not very efficient. If a referendum took place regularly, as in Switzerland, I would get bored and say referenda. Once every few years would be more interesting and would demand referendums

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
2 years ago
Reply to  polidori redux

referendi, surely?

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
2 years ago
Reply to  polidori redux

My computer’s spell checker seems to regard both as acceptable. I mean that’s how the English language works right? Just accept everything people use regularly and import a bunch of words from every other language until none of it makes any sense.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  polidori redux

I got out of this by saying referendum, referendum, referendum but it’s not very efficient. If a referendum took place regularly, as in Switzerland, I would get bored and say referenda. Once every few years would be more interesting and would demand referendums

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

I love the idea of referenda about scientific issues.
I want a referendum about plate tectonics. Now.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Chris, you are going ever so slightly weird with this!
Do you say referenda or referendums? I go for referendums.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

I love the idea of referenda about scientific issues.
I want a referendum about plate tectonics. Now.

Brian Burnell
Brian Burnell
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

It’s the human race that needs saving. The planet will be fine.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Burnell

I don’t know why people always feel a need to point this out. No one’s suggesting the earth will explode like the death star. They’re talking about ecological damage.

Arnold Grutt
Arnold Grutt
2 years ago
Reply to  HAL 9000

Who decides what constitutes an ‘ecology’?

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Arnold Grutt

Who decides the meaning of every word in the English language? I’m not sure. Dictionaries help.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Arnold Grutt

Who decides the meaning of every word in the English language? I’m not sure. Dictionaries help.

Arnold Grutt
Arnold Grutt
2 years ago
Reply to  HAL 9000

Who decides what constitutes an ‘ecology’?

HAL 9000
HAL 9000
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Burnell

I don’t know why people always feel a need to point this out. No one’s suggesting the earth will explode like the death star. They’re talking about ecological damage.

Al Gordon
Al Gordon
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Oh really….? I don’t think David Attenborough or thousands of climate scientists would agree. Nor would all the people experiencing extreme weather events.

Simon Flynn
Simon Flynn
2 years ago
Reply to  Al Gordon

.
I know, I know. Gawd, it’s been cold this last week, no?
.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Simon Flynn

It has. And?

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Simon Flynn

It has. And?

Simon Flynn
Simon Flynn
2 years ago
Reply to  Al Gordon

.
I know, I know. Gawd, it’s been cold this last week, no?
.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

No. The planet doesn’t need saving.
Sadly, though, pretty much every inhabitant except humans, livestock, dogs and rats, do.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

And the way to promote your view is to keep talking about a referendum about NetZero. If you think about it, somebody as ridiculous as Sturgeon has become famous by talking about a referendum – a totally trivial one. Referendum, referendum, referendum….

Brian Burnell
Brian Burnell
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

It’s the human race that needs saving. The planet will be fine.

Al Gordon
Al Gordon
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Oh really….? I don’t think David Attenborough or thousands of climate scientists would agree. Nor would all the people experiencing extreme weather events.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

No. The planet doesn’t need saving.
Sadly, though, pretty much every inhabitant except humans, livestock, dogs and rats, do.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 years ago

The planet doesn’t need saving. It’s fine.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
2 years ago

It is increasingly apparent to me that regardless of the truth or fiction of climate change, that the issue is being widely exploited by corporations to hawk their allegedly ‘green products’. For those unfamiliar with marketing practices, most companies specifically target the 18-35 year old demographic because it is during those years that adults form purchasing patterns that will last a lifetime. These days it’s climate change and social justice, which I regard as dubiously as most other people old enough to remember the Reagan administration. When I was younger there were different causes. I remember things like ‘dolphin safe’ tuna or the ever popular advertising that claimed a dollar from every purchase goes to starving children in Africa. This is basic mass marketing 101, which any professor thereof would readily confirm. Of course so called green corporations are just as bad as oil companies and chemical companies and insurance companies and banks. A horse painted green is, alas, still a horse, a pig with lipstick is still a pig, etc. They all bend the truth as far as they legally and believably can to make money and have been doing so since well before any of us were born. You’ll never see a commercial for sausage that takes place in a working sausage factory, and there’s a good reason why. They’re using climate change to push their product to a customer demographic, and bending the truth to do it. That’s basically the whole story. I have zero problem with those who go vegan for animal cruelty reasons. That is a very personal issue and frankly none of my or anybody else’s business. I do have a problem with corporate exploitation in all its various forms, and here we have a textbook example of how corporations bend the truth for profit, compromise the science behind industrial practices, and distort the public perceptions around important issues. The ‘green’ lobby has been fairly successful at framing the issue on its terms and media has failed in its duty to critically examine the issue. There are always two sides to every story. One needs to hear all sides of every issue and this is a side of the ‘green’ movement that is often unheard 🙂

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
2 years ago

It is increasingly apparent to me that regardless of the truth or fiction of climate change, that the issue is being widely exploited by corporations to hawk their allegedly ‘green products’. For those unfamiliar with marketing practices, most companies specifically target the 18-35 year old demographic because it is during those years that adults form purchasing patterns that will last a lifetime. These days it’s climate change and social justice, which I regard as dubiously as most other people old enough to remember the Reagan administration. When I was younger there were different causes. I remember things like ‘dolphin safe’ tuna or the ever popular advertising that claimed a dollar from every purchase goes to starving children in Africa. This is basic mass marketing 101, which any professor thereof would readily confirm. Of course so called green corporations are just as bad as oil companies and chemical companies and insurance companies and banks. A horse painted green is, alas, still a horse, a pig with lipstick is still a pig, etc. They all bend the truth as far as they legally and believably can to make money and have been doing so since well before any of us were born. You’ll never see a commercial for sausage that takes place in a working sausage factory, and there’s a good reason why. They’re using climate change to push their product to a customer demographic, and bending the truth to do it. That’s basically the whole story. I have zero problem with those who go vegan for animal cruelty reasons. That is a very personal issue and frankly none of my or anybody else’s business. I do have a problem with corporate exploitation in all its various forms, and here we have a textbook example of how corporations bend the truth for profit, compromise the science behind industrial practices, and distort the public perceptions around important issues. The ‘green’ lobby has been fairly successful at framing the issue on its terms and media has failed in its duty to critically examine the issue. There are always two sides to every story. One needs to hear all sides of every issue and this is a side of the ‘green’ movement that is often unheard 🙂

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
2 years ago

I saw a bumper sticker in New Mexico some years ago that said “If God didn’t want us to eat animals then why did he make them out of meat?”

Richard Warren
Richard Warren
2 years ago

“So, for once, let us turn the dinner tables, put vegan food under the knife and fork”, lol. Nearly all this chap’s articles are on this subject and are just as lopsided and economic with the truth as the people/industries he takes aim at.

(All the sources he links to are invariably very poor secondary or tertiary ones, for example “you can eat meat from carbon neutral factory” turns out to be the opening six months ago of the worlds one and only carbon neutral site”)

Bottom line with nearly all this type of argument about how some meat production is less harmful then the worst forms of arable farming, is to be more selective about what you eat – don’t just assume all plant based is good, and all meat is bad.

Unfortunately, there no way the world can produce enough meat via this chap’s methods. (Nearly all of which is done on land that at one point would have been forested, just like the Amazon he seems so worried about). If we want to eat the volume of meat we currently do, factory farming has a big role to play. How many people can afford the type of free range, organic, paper wrapped, meat he’s got on offer?

One could write a decent article on the ecological and human harm that some so-called planet friendly food does, (Paul Kingsnorth does a half decent job on here), but thats clearly not the intention here. Ironically it is to make those on the non-tofu side of argument feel just as smug about their food choices for having the good old common sense to not be taken in by all this hippy dippy, woke, nonsense.

Tony Price
Tony Price
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard Warren

Sensible comment, albeit tarnished for me by the insertion of the unnecessary ‘woke’ at the end, seemingly compulsory for comments here. I suggest that we need to revert to the use of meat primarily as a flavouring rather than the main event. It’s remarkable how spices and home-made chicken stock can transform pulses into something a bit special!

Richard Warren
Richard Warren
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Price

To be clearer, I was using the term woke prejoratively with regards to the sort of person who refers to everything as woke these days, including vegetarianism.

The article isn’t meant to persuade or even educate, its just to entrench existing views and choices and make people feel they are in the right and people who ashew meat are a bunch of misguided fools.

Last edited 2 years ago by Richard Warren
Richard Warren
Richard Warren
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Price

To be clearer, I was using the term woke prejoratively with regards to the sort of person who refers to everything as woke these days, including vegetarianism.

The article isn’t meant to persuade or even educate, its just to entrench existing views and choices and make people feel they are in the right and people who ashew meat are a bunch of misguided fools.

Last edited 2 years ago by Richard Warren
Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Warren

That’s not correct: “land…would have been forested”. At least not most places meat is raised. High quality soils make more money growing things. The kind of land beef and sheep are raised on is range land that can’t be used for that. Maybe it’s different in England, but it’s like that all over western America and I believe it’s that way in Argentina as well.

Tony Price
Tony Price
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard Warren

Sensible comment, albeit tarnished for me by the insertion of the unnecessary ‘woke’ at the end, seemingly compulsory for comments here. I suggest that we need to revert to the use of meat primarily as a flavouring rather than the main event. It’s remarkable how spices and home-made chicken stock can transform pulses into something a bit special!

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Warren

That’s not correct: “land…would have been forested”. At least not most places meat is raised. High quality soils make more money growing things. The kind of land beef and sheep are raised on is range land that can’t be used for that. Maybe it’s different in England, but it’s like that all over western America and I believe it’s that way in Argentina as well.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000
2 years ago

“If God didn’t want us to eat people then why did he make them out of meat?”

-Hannibal Lecter

Richard Warren
Richard Warren
2 years ago

“So, for once, let us turn the dinner tables, put vegan food under the knife and fork”, lol. Nearly all this chap’s articles are on this subject and are just as lopsided and economic with the truth as the people/industries he takes aim at.

(All the sources he links to are invariably very poor secondary or tertiary ones, for example “you can eat meat from carbon neutral factory” turns out to be the opening six months ago of the worlds one and only carbon neutral site”)

Bottom line with nearly all this type of argument about how some meat production is less harmful then the worst forms of arable farming, is to be more selective about what you eat – don’t just assume all plant based is good, and all meat is bad.

Unfortunately, there no way the world can produce enough meat via this chap’s methods. (Nearly all of which is done on land that at one point would have been forested, just like the Amazon he seems so worried about). If we want to eat the volume of meat we currently do, factory farming has a big role to play. How many people can afford the type of free range, organic, paper wrapped, meat he’s got on offer?

One could write a decent article on the ecological and human harm that some so-called planet friendly food does, (Paul Kingsnorth does a half decent job on here), but thats clearly not the intention here. Ironically it is to make those on the non-tofu side of argument feel just as smug about their food choices for having the good old common sense to not be taken in by all this hippy dippy, woke, nonsense.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000
2 years ago

“If God didn’t want us to eat people then why did he make them out of meat?”

-Hannibal Lecter

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
2 years ago

I saw a bumper sticker in New Mexico some years ago that said “If God didn’t want us to eat animals then why did he make them out of meat?”

Lisa Letendre
Lisa Letendre
2 years ago

As someone who likes to eat a mainly plant- based diet, I steer clear of all soy products exactly for all the reasons stated in the article. I don’t need a main stream news provider to tell me what to think or eat. I can investigate the options myself and make up my own mind. And I don’t appreciate the assumption that if I am concerned about animal welfare that I must be ‘woke’ and therefore someone to be sneered at!

Lisa Letendre
Lisa Letendre
2 years ago

As someone who likes to eat a mainly plant- based diet, I steer clear of all soy products exactly for all the reasons stated in the article. I don’t need a main stream news provider to tell me what to think or eat. I can investigate the options myself and make up my own mind. And I don’t appreciate the assumption that if I am concerned about animal welfare that I must be ‘woke’ and therefore someone to be sneered at!

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
2 years ago

I also wonder about the difference in acreage required for each. And all that water required for irrigation.

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
2 years ago

I also wonder about the difference in acreage required for each. And all that water required for irrigation.

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
2 years ago

I’m a libertarian free market Thatcher worshipping traditionalist, but, sorry Mr L-S, I like tofu, which is easy to cook with, accepts complex flavourings, is affordable, and in this household none goes in the bin. We eat meat as well, though no longer, if we can help it, anything but organic; higher quality, smaller quantities.
Artisanal farmers deserve support, of course, for nutritional and social reasons and I would not wish ever to lambast them. But what is the point of Mr L-S’s rant? Accept there are meat alternatives and some are delicious; sell your own products (and the writer of course has a dog, or at least a cow, in this fight) by extolling their merits, not by going overboard on the negativity.
Mr Lewis-Stempel is a great writer, this is not his best work!

Steve Elliott
Steve Elliott
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

I’ve read that something like 95% of soya grown is pressed for the oil. 75% of that is used in the production of human food. Most of the remainder is used in the production of biofuels. The fibrous remainder after pressing is used for animal feedstuff which humans don’t eat. Cattle especially are very good at turning this fibre into high quality protein. Seems like win-win to me for vegans and meat eaters.

Steve Elliott
Steve Elliott
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

As a fully paid up “Gammon” I’ve sometimes though that Tofus would be a good name for vegans on account of them being pale, soft and pasty.

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve Elliott

LOL. I’m not a vegan (though some of my best friends are)

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve Elliott

LOL. I’m not a vegan (though some of my best friends are)

E Wyatt
E Wyatt
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

I’ve eaten tofu for well over forty years just because it’s a useful source of protein for a non-meateater, so it’s a bit annoying that it now has political implications as I’m certainly not an ecowarrier.

Steve Elliott
Steve Elliott
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

I’ve read that something like 95% of soya grown is pressed for the oil. 75% of that is used in the production of human food. Most of the remainder is used in the production of biofuels. The fibrous remainder after pressing is used for animal feedstuff which humans don’t eat. Cattle especially are very good at turning this fibre into high quality protein. Seems like win-win to me for vegans and meat eaters.

Steve Elliott
Steve Elliott
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

As a fully paid up “Gammon” I’ve sometimes though that Tofus would be a good name for vegans on account of them being pale, soft and pasty.

E Wyatt
E Wyatt
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

I’ve eaten tofu for well over forty years just because it’s a useful source of protein for a non-meateater, so it’s a bit annoying that it now has political implications as I’m certainly not an ecowarrier.

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
2 years ago

I’m a libertarian free market Thatcher worshipping traditionalist, but, sorry Mr L-S, I like tofu, which is easy to cook with, accepts complex flavourings, is affordable, and in this household none goes in the bin. We eat meat as well, though no longer, if we can help it, anything but organic; higher quality, smaller quantities.
Artisanal farmers deserve support, of course, for nutritional and social reasons and I would not wish ever to lambast them. But what is the point of Mr L-S’s rant? Accept there are meat alternatives and some are delicious; sell your own products (and the writer of course has a dog, or at least a cow, in this fight) by extolling their merits, not by going overboard on the negativity.
Mr Lewis-Stempel is a great writer, this is not his best work!

David Yetter
David Yetter
2 years ago

I would note that going vegan for Lent is actually a very old idea. Well, not quite. The traditional Orthodox Christian fasting discipline for Lent (and most Wednesdays and Fridays, and a few other fasting seasons totalling about 165 days per year), dating back to at least the 4th century, is to eschew all products from vertebrates, along with olive oil and wine (except on weekends when those are permitted). We Orthodox Christians would all be part-time vegans if we couldn’t get shellfish.

Last edited 2 years ago by David Yetter
David Yetter
David Yetter
2 years ago

I would note that going vegan for Lent is actually a very old idea. Well, not quite. The traditional Orthodox Christian fasting discipline for Lent (and most Wednesdays and Fridays, and a few other fasting seasons totalling about 165 days per year), dating back to at least the 4th century, is to eschew all products from vertebrates, along with olive oil and wine (except on weekends when those are permitted). We Orthodox Christians would all be part-time vegans if we couldn’t get shellfish.

Last edited 2 years ago by David Yetter
Alexander Foden-Norris
Alexander Foden-Norris
2 years ago

This is not an UNHERD opinion, it is the dominant narrative of the mainstream media e.g. the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and ITV. You can also here this promoted in adverts for fast food chains etc.
Meat eaters are not the victims of wokeness: they are not the victims of this discussion full stop.

Alexander Foden-Norris
Alexander Foden-Norris
2 years ago

This is not an UNHERD opinion, it is the dominant narrative of the mainstream media e.g. the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and ITV. You can also here this promoted in adverts for fast food chains etc.
Meat eaters are not the victims of wokeness: they are not the victims of this discussion full stop.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago

‘Livestock farmer doesn’t like vegans, shock’.
It’s not that this latest installment of the author’s continuing campaign against the evils of veganism doesn’t include some good points, it’s more the way, in trying to find all and any point against tofu, he fails to come up with a convincing and coherent argument for the carnivorous status quo.
For example, whilst not entirely dismissing climate change and envrironmental destruction generally as a problem (sorry, Unherd fans), Lewis-Stempel fails to seriously engage with the shortcomings of organic meat production; how is artisanal organic local meat production going to feed the world? It isn’t- in which case he needs to compare plant protein production with the same industrial scale intensive farming that produces most meat.
Why put the ecological cost of globalised intensive soy-growing methods against relatively environmentally-friendly small-scale organic livestock farming? It’s an entirely disingenuous comparison. Few, if any, environmental scientists don’t sat we need to decrease our meat consumption, both for its carbon footprint, and for the simple and unavoidable fact that red meat requires vastly more land to produce than plants. Veganism isn’t the point- it’s about the reduction, not elimination.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago

‘Livestock farmer doesn’t like vegans, shock’.
It’s not that this latest installment of the author’s continuing campaign against the evils of veganism doesn’t include some good points, it’s more the way, in trying to find all and any point against tofu, he fails to come up with a convincing and coherent argument for the carnivorous status quo.
For example, whilst not entirely dismissing climate change and envrironmental destruction generally as a problem (sorry, Unherd fans), Lewis-Stempel fails to seriously engage with the shortcomings of organic meat production; how is artisanal organic local meat production going to feed the world? It isn’t- in which case he needs to compare plant protein production with the same industrial scale intensive farming that produces most meat.
Why put the ecological cost of globalised intensive soy-growing methods against relatively environmentally-friendly small-scale organic livestock farming? It’s an entirely disingenuous comparison. Few, if any, environmental scientists don’t sat we need to decrease our meat consumption, both for its carbon footprint, and for the simple and unavoidable fact that red meat requires vastly more land to produce than plants. Veganism isn’t the point- it’s about the reduction, not elimination.

Edward De Beukelaer
Edward De Beukelaer
2 years ago

It is a pity that we have to argue about the quality of food through airmiles, carbon emissions and laboratory measurements of their contents.
1) you cannot farm properly without mixing animals and crops: the alternative is to use chemicals… (animals also include all the insects and worms etc but all the farm animals have a huge role to play in the cycles)
2) food may well have measurable ingredients and is eaten for its content but what is more important is the narrative of food. The narrative meaning: how it is grown, by whom, how it has been transformed before it ends on your plate and how you (as a person) relate to all this and with whom you prepare and consume the food. Now, most people will think this is wishy washy. In that case you also have to argue that we are just machines made out of bits…. In that case your preference should be all the (sterile) food made and delivered by the agro-industry: we are in a free world, you are free to choose…

Edward De Beukelaer
Edward De Beukelaer
2 years ago

It is a pity that we have to argue about the quality of food through airmiles, carbon emissions and laboratory measurements of their contents.
1) you cannot farm properly without mixing animals and crops: the alternative is to use chemicals… (animals also include all the insects and worms etc but all the farm animals have a huge role to play in the cycles)
2) food may well have measurable ingredients and is eaten for its content but what is more important is the narrative of food. The narrative meaning: how it is grown, by whom, how it has been transformed before it ends on your plate and how you (as a person) relate to all this and with whom you prepare and consume the food. Now, most people will think this is wishy washy. In that case you also have to argue that we are just machines made out of bits…. In that case your preference should be all the (sterile) food made and delivered by the agro-industry: we are in a free world, you are free to choose…

SomeBloke FromCambridge
SomeBloke FromCambridge
2 years ago

Yes, but “saving the planet” is not the goal, it’s just the pretext, offered up to gullible fools. The goal is, of course, same as always, money.
PS: see Mat Briggs if you want to explore the validity of models, such as the Carbon Footprint stuff.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago

You don’t think the people who supply the food you eat make money? So what, exactly, is your point? We live in a capitalist society- if you think making money is, in itself, an evil, say so. Otherwise, you’re being disingenuous.
PS; if you want to genuinely learn about a concept such as ‘carbon footprint’, it’s intelligent not to just rely on one, outlying voice. That’s how to become a conspiracy nut.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago

You don’t think the people who supply the food you eat make money? So what, exactly, is your point? We live in a capitalist society- if you think making money is, in itself, an evil, say so. Otherwise, you’re being disingenuous.
PS; if you want to genuinely learn about a concept such as ‘carbon footprint’, it’s intelligent not to just rely on one, outlying voice. That’s how to become a conspiracy nut.

SomeBloke FromCambridge
SomeBloke FromCambridge
2 years ago

Yes, but “saving the planet” is not the goal, it’s just the pretext, offered up to gullible fools. The goal is, of course, same as always, money.
PS: see Mat Briggs if you want to explore the validity of models, such as the Carbon Footprint stuff.

Alexander Foden-Norris
Alexander Foden-Norris
2 years ago
Brian Burnell
Brian Burnell
2 years ago

I know nothing of farming and am a frequent visitor to supermarket meat counters. Tonight I’ll dine on a juicy fillet steak that an animal died to put on my plate, and I’ve never knowingly eaten tofu. So this article was truly interesting and informative.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Burnell

Anything would be informative to someone who “knows nothing”.

John Holland
John Holland
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Burnell

Anything would be informative to someone who “knows nothing”.

Brian Burnell
Brian Burnell
2 years ago

I know nothing of farming and am a frequent visitor to supermarket meat counters. Tonight I’ll dine on a juicy fillet steak that an animal died to put on my plate, and I’ve never knowingly eaten tofu. So this article was truly interesting and informative.