'He is a curious character to capture.' Drew Hallowell / Getty Images
James David Vance is the epitome of what so many Europeans loathe about America: brash, insular, moralising and imperious. And yet — even more annoyingly — like America itself, he combines this with intelligence, education, wealth and, ultimately, power. Vance is the Hillbilly Crown Prince countering the Old World’s scorn with a contempt of his own. In the unseemly battle between the two over the past few weeks, neither side has emerged with much credit. And yet, the most uncomfortable reality of all for Europe today — and Britain in particular — is that what we see in Vance we also see in our own future.
When Vance asks what America has to gain by risking a war with Russia, Britain, too, will soon begin to ask what is in it for us as part of the proposed peace keeping settlement. When Vance demands that Europe pay more for its own defence, Britain will also want to know why it should shoulder a disproportionate share of the burden for the continent’s defence without recompense. Germany, for all its current economic difficulties, remains far less indebted and much wealthier than Britain. Norway, meanwhile, has spent the past decade growing ever richer as a result of the spike in gas prices. Shouldn’t both of these countries, then, be contributing more in financial terms towards any future British deployment? Finally, when Trump himself complains that Europe is treating the US unfairly while asking for its support, surely it is reasonable to ask why British troops should be sent to defend the EU’s borders when the EU itself refuses to negotiate even the most basic defence “pact” with Britain until it hands over access to its fishing grounds?
At the heart of the Trump-Vance strategy is the pursuit of a new grand bargain in global affairs, in which the US acknowledges the emergence of a new multipolar world governed by great powers rather than international law. While Europe is not — yet — one of those powers, it too faces a moment of reckoning; when the old EU order is no longer enough to govern the continent’s security, new grand bargains will be demanded. It has not gone unnoticed in Downing Street that, today, Europe’s security is increasingly dependent on four countries none of which is a member: Britain, Norway, Turkey and, of course, Ukraine. If America’s position in the world is no longer sustainable, then neither is the current concert of Europe. Whether any of Europe’s current leaders can rise to the challenge and create something new is far less clear, although Emmanuel Macron made an effort to do so.
In an address to the nation last night , the French President argued that “the future of Europe cannot be decided in Washington or Moscow”. He said that while he wanted to believe that “the US will stand by our side”, Europe had to be ready if that wasn’t the case. “We need to be able to recognise the Russian threat and better defend ourselves in order to deter such attacks. We need to provide ourselves with more arms. We need to do more than we have in the past to reinforce our security.”
In a sense, then, Vance, is both a harbinger of our upheaval — and an author of it. As such, he is a curious character to capture. He is not the Appalachian red-neck of general European disdain; he is far too Ivy League and Silicon Valley to be understood as such. But nor is he merely a tough-talking under-boss of the Dick Cheney variety: Vance is something sharper and more elusive; closer to Richard Nixon than most recent holders of the Vice Presidency. He’s a man of power and ambition who is offensive to European sensibilities not just because of the dishonesty of his casual asides, but the fragility they reveal about our own predicament.
Over the course of the past month alone, Vance has outraged public sentiment across Europe by — in turn — claiming the continent’s attitude to free speech is a greater threat to its security than Russia; condemning the German “fire wall” against the AfD in the run up to its general election; berating Volodymyr Zelensky for daring to question him in the Oval Office; and, finally, claiming that the offer of “20,000 troops from some random country that has not fought a war in 30 or 40 years” was no guarantee of security to Ukraine. Vance’s latest remark, in an interview on Fox News, sparked particular condemnation in Britain and France — the only countries which have publicly offered troops. Britain has spent much of this century fighting — and dying — alongside America. “Have you said thank you once,” has become the meme response, Britain’s diplomatic esprit de l’escalier.
Vance insisted his remarks were not aimed at either country. Yet he quickly added another pointed criticism in its place: “Let’s be direct: there are many countries who are volunteering (privately or publicly) support who have neither the battlefield experience nor the military equipment to do anything meaningful.” This latest criticism is a reminder that the real reason Vance is so offensive is often because he reveals our own weakness. In Afghanistan and Iraq, the painful truth is that the US did not need our support, was not particularly impressed by our efforts, and has concluded subsequently that we have run down our militaries to such an extent it no longer even needs to be polite about the nakedness of our own position.
The interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan remain a trauma for the British body politic, but not for the reason they should — that we lost them both. In the years that have followed these invasions we have agonised over their legality and morality, wisdom and effect, but not so much over our own military failures. Addressing British troops in Iraq in 2003, Blair claimed that not only had they won the battle, but they had “gone on to make something of the country you had liberated”. This, he said, was “a lesson for armed forces everywhere the world over”. Britain was still Greece to America’s Rome. Yet the story was not true, if it ever was.
By the summer of 2007, the Americans had come to the conclusion that in Iraq “the British have basically been defeated in the South”, as the former reservist and diplomat Frank Ledwidge wrote in Losing Small Wars, his account of Britain’s military failures in Iraq and Afghanistan. By this point, Blair had ordered a draw down of British troops, leaving the army with a garrison of 500 in Basra under siege from the local militias. The Americans, by contrast, had begun “the surge” under David Patreus to restore order. Still, though, Britain continued to advise the Americans on the way to defeat an insurgency. “It’s insufferable for Christ’s sake,” one senior figure closely involved in US military planning is quoted in Ledwidge’s account. Britain had lost the war — and with it the right to offer advice. Still, we persisted.
After withdrawing from Iraq, vanquished and dejected, Afghanistan offered an opportunity for us to rebuild our reputation. Around 3,500 troops were deployed to Helmand to restore order and defeat the Taliban. Yet, as Ledwidge writes, such numbers were nowhere near enough. Once these forces were spread throughout the province — the size of Wales — Britain ended back in the same “self-licking lollipop” position it had found itself in Basra, capable only of defending itself and little more. The capital of Helmand, Lashkar Gah — a city of 200,000 people — ended up being patrolled by about 80 British soldiers, although there were never more than 20 on the ground at any one time. Outside the city, the entire Brigade could only muster 168 combat troops to conduct operations. The result, like Basra, was failure and, eventually, withdrawal.
Has Britain ever properly come to terms with its military defeats in these wars — or those that followed? In Libya, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy led an intervention dependent on the US which turned into another disaster. Is it any wonder that this American administration shows such disregard for the latest Anglo-French initiative?
At the heart of Vance’s complaint is not just a frustration with European capabilities — a long-standing source of annoyance — but a fundamental rejection of what is, at heart, an attempt to extend America’s security guarantee to Ukraine primarily to protect our own security. The US has made clear, repeatedly and explicitly under successive administrations, that it will not fight a war with Russia for Ukraine. Until now it has agreed to pay for Ukraine to fight the Russians, but it has consistently refused to go any further than this. Europe’s attempt to wrestle out of Trump a “backstop” commitment is, in effect, an attempt to change this policy as part of any future peace agreement. Trump has said no.
For Europe, this presents a fundamental dilemma: is it prepared to fight a war with Russia for Ukraine? Today, no one in Europe is prepared to answer that question. For all the talk of “strategic autonomy” or even “independence” from the US in recent weeks, Europe has sought to answer this most existential of questions with a sleight of hand, suggesting that it was willing to fight while seeking to draw the Americans in.
The central reality in European politics today is that there is a panicked scramble to protect the essential bargain of the transatlantic status quo and America’s supremacy in continental affairs, not to seize the moment for its own independence. For sure, the world is changing — more European spending on defence and a willingness to consider the previously unthinkable: that America might one day be a threat to European interests. But at the summit in London on Sunday, while Volodymyr Zelensky was comforted and embraced, he was ordered to make up with the Emperor over the water. Two days later he duly did so.
The paradox of JD Vance is that his insults only matter because we are too weak for them not to — yet if we choose to become strong, we will begin to sound more like him. We are dependent and so we are craven. If we become independent, we will surely ask more from Europe for the commitments we are making. Friedrich Nietzsche warned that when fighting monsters beware becoming a monster yourself. Perhaps, though, this destiny is unavoidable.
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SubscribeWe can hardly blame Mr Vance for our inadequacies, instead we should be castigating Blair, Cameron and others for the loss of about 600* British lives in two resounding military defeats.
Was any of this hubris worth the bones of even ONE ‘British Grenadier’?
*And another 2000 odd with what are euphemistically described as “life changing injuries” many of which resulted in emasculation.
Even at the hight of our Imperial power during the Victorian era we managed to sustain severe defeats and losses in both the first and second Afghan Wars. My grandfather was lucky to have been in charge of the baggage train at the Battle of Maiwand as a young Lieutenant so managed avoid the fate of his comrades in the Royal Berkshire Regiment. Our posturing politicians have throughout the ages sent our soldiers to fight unnecessary wars in far off places inadequately prepared.
Ironically my grandfather’s uncle wrote in the preface to his journal about the punitive expedition in the first Afghan War that England would be unlikely ever again to fight in Afghanistan. Sadly a prediction that proved far from prescient.
Only 3 generations between the Battle of Maiwand (1880) and today? Congratulations – you must come from a very long-lived family.
History has shown that there are two countries that any sane leader should never ever invade if they want to avoid it all ending in tears: Afghanistan, and Russia.
wake up It is actually Russia that invaded Ukraine
The Mongols managed to overrun both with very little trouble.
What the Mongols did would be considered war crimes by our fragile standards of modernity. They were brutal, and brutally effective, so much so that the entire region arguably never has recovered. Given their modus operandi was to kill all the men and steal or just rape the women, it’s fair to say there’s a very large portion of non-Mongol peoples has at least some Mongol DNA. Nature doesn’t really concern itself with the how. An argument can be made that Genghis Khan wins at humanity because he has the most descendants.
( Pedant alert!)
At Maiwand it was still HM 66th Foot, and both Colours were lost.
Worse was follow at Laing’Neck and Majuba Hill, but Gladstone had the good manners to back down.
What’s striking about this is that it’s the supposedly peace-loving boomer graduate class of the ‘sixties that has been responsible for the catastrophes of the past thirty years. The sooner we drive them out of power the better.
Yes and the wars that Margaret Thatcher got us involved in – the Falklands and Gulf War 1 – were victories. And she was from the previous generation to Blair, Bush, Clinton etc. And the Blair generation constantly referred to her as a warmonger when infact she helped bring both the IRA and the Soviets to their knees.
I just can’t understand why Thatcher raised interest rates to 16% deliberately to crash uk industry to enable the policy to outsource manufacturing to China? Is that really a good legacy?
I just can’t understand why Thatcher raised interest rates to 16% deliberately
That’s because she didn’t. It was John Major.
well, unlike Thatcher, Trump is embracing the KGB ideology and surrenders everything before even starting to ask anything from the agressor
My son references the day of the pillow
Explain.
Seconded.
Where are the WMDs, Tony? Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives were lost, Da’esh emerged from the ruins, and we deposed a (brutal) middle eastern leader who at least kept Iran in some sort of check. On the strength of a bogus ‘dossier’. The ‘facts were fixed around the policy’.
After the USA and the UK launched expeditions like these in Iraq and Afghanistan it makes it harder for Putin be judged for incursions into Abkhazia and Ukraine, although judged he should be.
Sean, Gulf War 1 and GW 2 had two entirely different ‘triggers’ and can’t be compared. Charles only referred to GW 1 for good reason. Pretty much the whole world was offended by Sadam Hussein’s annexation (invasion) of Kuwait which triggered GW 1. In fact the POTUS in 1991 ordered restraint and stopped the advance once the UN mandate to liberate Kuwait was complete. HW Bush may not have been the brightest POTUS but what has followed after him hasn’t been particularly impressive for a number of different reasons.
The war on terror saw comprehensive military victories for the west. The defeats were political.
For the US undoubtedly but NOT for us, “the borrowers “.
“Britain had lost the war — and with it the right to offer advice. Still, we persisted.”
And Blair, who should have crawled under a stone in disgrace after this debacle, is still offering us advice on how to run our lives.
JD Vance is an intelligent, tough, serious man. He also has the moral courage to go into a room of powerful people and tell them uncomfortable truths, and history will I hope thank him for his Munich speech. If it doesn’t, it means we lost, and someone else got to write the history.
The current UK prime minister knelt, literally bent the knee, to an imported Marxist race-baiting craze, was unable when asked to define what a woman/man was, is about to pay to give away British territory not to its inhabitants but to a client state of the PRC, and presides over a police force that harasses people for tweets that might make some people feel uncomfortable, and actually imprisons people for saying things his government finds uncomfortable. This colossus is talking now of standing up for Ukraine against Russia.
The sooner we sound more like JD Vance the better. I don’t see why it’s a paradox that blunt, hard-headed truth would make you stronger.
Great comment. The only people who dislike JD are the weak, incompetent technocrats who have driven Britain and Europe to the precipice of economic and social collapse. For them, JD is an existential threat to their unearned status and privilege. I think JD is a more intelligent, less mercurial and more articulate version of Trump.
I don’t think JD Vance is anything like Donald Trump. A lawyer who graduated from Yale, JD Vance does well in the abstract world of words and ideas but seems to have little practical sense and no talent for the art of the deal or the art of getting problems solved or things done.
Remember that JD Vance had only been a US senator for a year and a half when Donald Trump picked him as his vice presidential candidate. He has even less experience than Kamala Harris, someone not qualified by my measure. JD Vance is certainly the least qualified vice president I can think of. I was shocked that Donald Trump chose him.
JD Vance may indeed be intelligent, less mercurial and more articulate than Donald Trump. So what? That hardly qualifies JD Vance for the presidency. There are a lot more strengths that Donald Trump has that JD Vance lacks. Important strengths a president should have.
Many people seem to think that JD Vance’s scolding Munich speech and his Oval Office scolding of Volodymyr Zelensky demonstrate ability. I disagree. I think both those events did more damage than good.
JD Vance still has 4 years of vice presidency ahead of him. Maybe he will come out of it seasoned and impressive. Maybe he will go on to great things. But I doubt it. His resume is awfully thin at age 40. That does not augur well for someone with presidential ambitions.
Caesar didn’t get his ‘big break’ until he was 42.
Even then people such as Cicero continued to vilify him, rather as some today continue to squeal about Messrs Trump and Vance.
I hope I didn’t give the impression I think JD Vance is a failure. He’s certainly not that. He is intelligent and can give a forceful speech. But I fail to see any moral courage or any talent to do what really matters.
In short, I see JD Vance as a talker, not a doer. Big hat, no cattle. All mouth and trousers.
Talkers can get things done. But that ability is rare, and JD Vance hasn’t shown it. His Munich speech caused offense and did no good. More Germans appeared to be turned off by his and Elon Musk’s interference in their election than were turned on.
You maybe correct, but it is ‘early days’ and there is still ‘room for improvement.’
I do hope I am not disappointed!
Well so far he is the most used vp in my memory. Compare him to Kamala the border czar.
I look forward to good things from him because he’s thought about who he is.
That’s plenty for his age.
Say what? JD Vance has exceeded expectations every step of the way, from his humble roots to Yale. Everyone thought he was a bad choice as running mate, and then they shut up when he killed it on the campaign trail. Comparing JD Vance to Kamala Harris is silly. They couldn’t be more different. He earned every scrap he’s accumulated. He left eu he’s in the tech world to enter politics. His Munich speech was 100% on target and needed to be said.
Sometimes Truth is more important than subtle Diplomacy.
And Now is one of those times.
I agree JD Vance and Kamala Harris are different. I’m just comparing their resumes, looking at what they have accomplished in their careers.
Kamala Harris worked her way up the political ladder, first as San Francisco district attorney, then as California attorney general, then as a US senator from California, then as vice president. No real accomplishments, but at least she showed competence in government over the long term.
JD Vance did a year and a half in the US Senate before he ran for vice president. Before that he was a venture capitalist, very poor training for an executive position in government. Before that he wrote a book that earned him a few million dollars but again was no preparation for government office.
Running for office and giving speeches give us a very narrow view of a person’s abilities. It’s much better to focus on what a person has done; what problems they have analyzed and executed a solution for.
JD Vance gave a speech in Munich that got attention. But did his speech help solve a problem? Did it accomplish anything? Did European leaders cut back on censorship or allow far right parties to join in government? Or did JD Vance just preach to the choir, calling out sinners in an accusatory way that changed nothing?
JD Vance has a lot of potential. As you say, he has overcome a lot. But he strikes me as a Barack Obama type of guy. A man who has a gift for inspiring people but no gift to get things done. Barack Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize his first year in office because people were impressed by what he said. But he never lived up to his words with accomplishments.
Advertiser David Ogilvy pointed out well the difference between the abstract and the practical. He said when he wrote an ad he didn’t want people to think, that’s a good ad. He wanted them to buy the product. One Greek orator inspired people to say, oh, how well he speaks. But the other inspired people to say, let us march against Philip.
Coco Chanel used to say that when she designed a dress she hadn’t done her job if people thought, that’s a lovely dress. She wanted them to say to the woman wearing the dress, you look beautiful!
A British ad executive tells of when he hosted Neil Kinnock to engage in a debate at Oxford. He sat spellbound by his speech, as did the rest of the audience. Afterwards he was telling someone what a brilliant speaker Neil Kinnock was and was asked, what did he say? He couldn’t remember.
When JD Vance stops just scolding people with abstract words and actually gets something done in the real world, then I will pay him his due. But when people sing his praises, and call him brilliant and filled with moral courage, I ask, fine, but what has he done to solve problems?
Kamala showed competence in government??!
Y’all seem to forget that JD served as a Marine. Might have changed his view on recent US foreign policy?
Not quite. He did serve in the Marine Corps, but 20 years ago as a young journalist, not a Marine as most understand the term. Time will tell whether that was relevant to 2025, still less 2028.
Great comment agreed. But also a very good article. It is very difficult to disagree with anything in it.
Our own hubris drives us to deny the truth of our position and the US, having tried breaking the news respectfully, has to resort to rubbing our noses in it to get the point across.
We respond like a spoilt teenager throwing a tantrum when daddy refuses to buy them a new sportscar.
Full credit Tom McTague for a clear and unsparingly impartial analysis. In the current climate such attributes are a rare commodity
Vance still wouldn’t be my first choice for a leader of the populist movement. That would actually go to Josh Hawley, but he’s never really shown any inclination to ascend the political ladder any further. Given that he sounds more like a decent human being than any politician and appears to listen to his constituents more than party leaders or even the President, I can’t say that I blame him for not wanting to wade any further into the cesspool of government than he already has. Vance would be an improvement over Trump and I think he would be able to send a clearer, more consistent, and more effective message.
Did you like it when Vance described Trump as “America’s Hitler”? Was that him being intelligent, tough, serious?
Or do you prefer the obsequious yes-man that he is now?
How is the weather where you are, CS?
People learn things, they change. Champagne socialists typically do neither.
Don’t buy his airs, he’s a plonk man from the get-go.
Would need the context of his remark to be able to comment
Tough, serious?
If it’s the Vance who made the speech in Munich, yes.
If it’s the Vance who, disgracefully, bullied Zalensky in the Oval Office; if it’s the Vance who applauds the tariff war on Canada and Mexico; if it’s the Vance who wants to help himself to Greenland, the sovereign territory of a NATO ally, no.
It was disconcerting to find that JD’s enthusiasm for free speech runs out when it’s Zelensky speaking.
…and the indulgence the loyal journalists show vis-à-vis Mr Musk’s dress code decidedly runs out when they deal with Zelensky.
Zelensky did not stop talking even when the other spoke. Who he thinks he is?
He might start his free speech by reading the meeting agenda.
All reprehensible no doubt, but it doesn’t invalidate his common Europe, does it.. they are either valid on not in their own merits.
During my lifetime we have only managed to produce two, what you might call ‘decent’ Prime Ministers, Harold Macmillan and Margaret Thatcher.
Macmillan had started out fighting on the Western Front with the Grenadier Guards, during the Great War,* whilst Margaret Thatcher was an Oxford educated chemist. For some unfathomable reason, this seems that seems to have generated a “blunt, hard- headed”character that is essential for such a role.
To see Starmer ‘bending the knee’ the other day, was by far the most humiliating gesture was I have witnessed in a British politician for many a year. Has the man no SHAME? Obviously not it seems.
*Now known as WWI for millennials and others.
For the record, use of the term ‘First World War’ as an alternative to The Great War dates back at least to 1920, when a certain Lieutenant Colonel Charles à Court Repington published a book of memoirs entitled ‘The First World War’. See Charles à Court Repington – Wikipedia
..for sure: once you get the taste for one, sure there’s no stopping there after that!
Thank you!
So not WW1 then?
Interesting that the use of the term “first world war” preceded the second by a couple of decades. The use of the ordinate word “first” as a qualifier carries the implicit assumption that there will be others or the distinction “first” is not meaningful. Was the Lieutenant Colonel a prophet? I suspect he was rather a realist and a cynic who understands that once something happens once, no matter how horrible or traumatic it is, we can assume it will probably happen again. Nothing new under the sun and all that. By extension, one wonders what WWIII will look like and whether there will be enough of the “world” left to get to WWIV.
Getting blunt, hard-headed truths – once you’ve licked your wounds – is sometimes the best possible medicine and the best way to set you on a better course. I hope Europeans will come to see Vance’s interventions in this way soon. Currently, all I’m seeing is Trump/Vance/US bashing and it won’t help us.
At the moment this article is the only one I’ve read that recognises European, and specifically British, culpability in the collective predicament we now found ourselves in. Hurray for Tom McTague.
From my reading across a range of sources this is by no means the only article supporting Vance’s home truths speech. Aside from the usual MSM shills I have seen a collective sigh of relief from a great many credible sources that someone at the very top has articulated very clearly the views that a good many of us hold. Not all Europeans hold the progressive left line, but alas this is the flavour preferred by our governing elite. And while you (and I) may hope this will change I fear that it won’t. The religion is too firmly embedded and there is too much vested by these people for there to be a radical shift. There will be lots of words, which is the EU’s preferred reaction to anything, but little if no action. Our European leaders are adherents of two of Macbeth’s best lines; ‘full of sound and fury signifying nothing’ and ‘tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow’.
Please let me know these sources, I’m relying solely on UnHerd for sanity right now. The media in the German-speaking area is almost universally delusional.
Most of my sources were Youtube not written, but I recall a Times editorial and several Spectator pieces. Ref Douglas Murray and Konstantin Kissin, am sure they have opined on this subject and they are both sensible. And (I feel sure) any material from anyone with a modicum of sense and sense of proportion and over the age of 10 who had the misfortune to see a grown man (Herr Heusgen, at least I think the sad individual was a Herr) cry on stage because a horrible man said hurty words. I jest, but really! If one were to look for an instance that demonstrated the intellectual vacuity and fragility of the EU’s top tier then Heusgen’s performance and the reaction of the audience would make the top ten.
The Swiss “Weltwoche” would be such a source, especially Roger Kapsel.
…sorry: Roger Köppel
Try David Starkey here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItCYWJBSJX0&list=WL
The Critic magazine is good, and currently free (no Comments though).
In terms of lines, I much prefer the Churchill’s “Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy” . The line that the overwhelming majority of the commentators here would certainly find delusional, Trump-bashing and coming from progressive left.
The world we inhabit is particularly absurd due this undeclared stealth religion of globalism. One such absurdity is the spectacle of Americans appreciating the European turn against America. If it leads to something constructive and good for both parties, such as Europeans putting more of their own efforts and resources into defending their borders and advancing their national interests, rather than begging the US to do it for them, many Americans, including this one, will support it. I’m rooting for Europe to find its own course either as a union or as individual nations. Globalism has ruined Europe worse than it ruined the US, so you’ve got more reason than most to be bitter towards the USA. You Europeans tell us Americans to go pound sand and show what you can do on your own. Lord knows you folks have a tough row to hoe but what’s not begun won’t ever get done.
And yet, he prefaced his piece by declaring Vance’s comments as “dishonest”.
I’ll take one word that I don’t agree with over this rubbish: https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-destroy-european-union-brussels/
I mean, it takes some gumption to accuse Trump of trying to divide and rule the EU member states when they divide themselves over pretty much every issue without any form of external help whatsoever.
McTague is streets ahead of that kind of bilge.
Absolutely! I’ve commented elsewhere that despite using that word (dishonest – probably as a sop to the progressives) the rest of his article goes on to demonstrate why Vance’s comments aren’t dishonest.
Vance makes sense on free speech although it may be a backdoor for the US right to influence European politics via lies, but bring it on.
He also lies repeatedly and appears to favour Russia with his boss. To be held at arms length.
The challenge in the EU is that someone with his background could never make it to the pinnacle of power.
this is not true. Examples are abundant. The latest is that of Bardela, the France’s RN N2, who is very likely to become a next president
The way Vance treated his guest Zelensky, in that televised setup, was truly disgraceful, repugnant. That of a bully in a schoolyard. Of a very loyal bulldog, too.
You hit the nail on the head. This article gets Vance exactly wrong. He is not a revolutionary but a counterrevolutionary. He takes his bearings from the distinction between right and wrong, good and evil, the very distinctions at which the European elite sneer. He is no “harbinger of upheaval,” but a harbinger of the opposite. That, precisely that, is why he is so hated. He stands for something as opposed to nothing.
what is that something ? siding with a dictator? what has he really done that would attest to his worthiness ?
What he stands for is precisely something, which is to say, not the abyss. The abyss is the inability to defend civilization against cannibalism. Vance does not agree that everything is permitted. Those who think everything is permitted hate, and long destroy, the JD Vance’s of the world.
The Republican position on the Ukraine war is the same as the US right wing position in the lead up to both WW1 and WW2 – appeasement of Germany and waving concerns away. That didn’t end well then either.
it will not end this way either. Both war and dishonour
‘Some random country’.
That phrase alone reveals everything we need to know about Vance, an individual who has yet to escape the pedestrian in his choice of words and who as we have seen repeatedly reduces world politics and now historic victories to the gutter level of a bar room jibe.
We are truly living in the era of Diplomacy of The Absurd. Can anyone anywhere truly regard statements like Vance’s as sound and acceptable political opinion? Who could possibly call this man a statesman? And who could stand by unmoved when such numbskulled insults are hurled at a nation that has and continues to know the price of human conflict?
Like his myopic, tango-tanned overlord, Vance is nothing more than an idiotic demon prince, briefly sprung upon the world stage. And I have no doubt that his international audience will not only greet him with boos, hisses and barracking but with the contemptuous appraisal he deserves.
Trump’s incredible second act may well refute F. Scott Fitzgerald’s famed maxim, but I hold on to the hope that sooner or later this gauche, misguided and self-deluded troupe of strolling idiots will have played their last house.
a great comment ! finally, the word of wisdom. Will not go down well with those who Douglas Murray referred to as ‘gullible right fallen for Putin’
Terrific comment. You have described the Starmer that most people are all too quick to forget.
You can certainly point to Vance’s hypocrisy. After all, America’s efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan were not much of an improvement on Vietnam. Nor is America a country at ease with itself. No other country in the West regularly debates the possibility of civil war.
We can certainly say that Trump’s last attempt at peacemaking (in Afghanistan) ended in fiasco and tragedy, as the Taliban simply ignored the agreement they had just signed, and Trump did not care. So who is America, the world’s patsy, to lecture anyone?
But still. Vance has a point. Our democracies and our armed forces are weak. We need to rectify that, and fast.
Agreed about Afghanistan but not Iraq. Iraq was seen as an existential threat to Israel and had to be “bombed back into the Stone Age” or better.
Better turned out be internecine civil war, from which the country will not recover for at least thirty years. Job done, move on.
Really? Surely Iraq had been substantially contained during the Kuwait episode and was little threat to Israel, which Israel could handle itself.
The net result of the next Iraq adventure seems to have been to make Iraq an adjunct to Iran.
Bombed back into the Stone Age or better? I can’t believe any sane rational person could think this. Monstrous thought and endorsement of war.
Afghanistan ended in tragedy and fiasco because of the Biden administration. The Trump peace deal had nothing to do with the botched planning and shambolic withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Still sticking up for your fat orange hero, Jimbo?
Ah yes, you’re from Alberta aren’t you? That explains a lot…
Alas, it did. Biden chose to see through Trump’s plan. It was everybody’s fault.
Look up the timeline of the war in Afghanistan, on the website of the Council of Foreign Relations.
Biden couldn’t see through the fog in his own brain.
How on earth can Vance be hypocritical about Iraq or Afghanistan when he wasn’t elected to the House until 2023?
And the US is a different country now.
Senate.
An excellent article setting out the truth…which many, particularly our politicians, cannot recognise let alone voice. They prefer to pretend they are Churchill and “plucky little Britain” will provide moral leadership to the West.
Reality is rather different, and the posturing of the powerless British and EU leaders amusing, if not contemptible.
Sadly we also have that “plucky little Britain nonsense when it come to the Net-Zero fiasco.
For all his limitations, I very much doubt if WSC would have ‘fallen for’ the Net-Zero sting, unlike that other redoubtable Tory luminary, one THERESA MARY MAY.
Do you suppose Mr. May’s investment fund was heavily into “green industries”? I think we should be told…lol.
I imagine that WSC would have been incredibly enthusiastic if the net zero industry had bailed him out from one of his periodic bankruptcies -it seemed to work for everyone else who funded him with an axe to grind. Alternatively, he would have been than happy to promote net zero if he were out of power and those in office were against it – his adoption of policies the purpose of which seemed only to destabilise those in power to give himself a chance of office was also legendary.
Fair enough
I agree and apologise for being far too generous to the memory of WSC.
He was, as we used to say, “a real bounder” when all is said and done.
Russia is an existential threat to Britain not because it poses either a territorial or ideological threat, but because the Russo-Ukrainian War marks the end of the geopolitical consensus that was enacted after 1945 and a return to the sort of great-power international politics prevalent before 1914, a form of international politics to which modern Britain is profoundly ill-suited. The postwar order held two principles to be inviolate: firstly, national borders could only be altered by international arbitration or by a nation’s internal politics, and secondly, that military aggression for reasons of naked territorial aggrandizement was illegitimate. Nations certainly went to war with one another, but they were careful to cloak their ambitions in high-minded sentiment and tended to avoid outright annexation of neighboring territory to escape the opprobrium of the international community.
All that is over now. Putin has demonstrated that the world’s “policemen” lack either the desire (Trump) or the strength (Europe) to enforce the 1945 settlement. Expect to see more territorial wars in the years and decades to come. In this, we are reverting back to the way things were before 1914, when great powers jockeyed for influence through direct territorial expansion. However, Britain lacks the economic base, the military puissance, and most importantly the will to compete in this new world. It was assumed by most of the Western elite that the 1945 settlement was permanent, and that the international order imposed by the Cold War threat of mutually assured destruction was somehow the natural state of things. Countries no longer had to maintain any degree of economic autonomy, nor any amount of military strength, because international trade barriers had been abolished, never to return, and no one would ever wage aggressive expansionist war against his neighbors, aside from a few Third-World tinpot dictators, and those would be easily dealt with, even with the West’s increasingly feeble militaries. Starmer and his cronies are panicked now because Putin has shown this to be false.
Russian tanks are not likely to be rumbling through Piccadilly anytime soon, but by rumbling through Donetsk they have revealed that the Western elite’s world order and worldview have been hollowed out to the point where they lack all credibility. And ordinary people can sense it. Britain has, under its postwar governments, decayed into a third-rate power, and perhaps not even that. The question now is whether the British can muster the will to enact even the very minimal reforms necessary to preserve themselves as a nation. Because a nation that cannot command the respect of foreign powers will find it hard to command the respect of its own people, particularly if the feckless, incompetent governing class has sought to systematically abolish its own people by depriving them of any meaningful national identity.
Very true, but expanding borders is not the only way to exert power. Spheres of influence and control (e.g. by controlling a country’s natural gas supply) are just as important. And very many wars have been fought via client states or independent warrior gangs. The world did not fundamentally change, but our characterization of it did.
A sobering but true and necessary assessment. Europe and in particular Britain needs to harden up and act in its own interest. Unfortunately neither still haven’t worked out what that is.
Monsters from the deep. A sober thought. Indeed, Man was placed on Earth to fight evil, to shape the world and not be shaped by it. Bravery is needed, a heart for justice, a willingness to do what’s right – to take the path less traveled …..
‘Man was placed on Earth to fight evil’.
Should be:
‘Man was placed on Earth to fight the evil WITHIN’.
In the West we’ve failed absolutely, for, in my opinion, the greatest evil is hypocrisy – as it inevitably leads to all the other evils.
And the West is the world champion in hypocrisy!
Excuse me! “man was placed on Earth to fight evil and to shape the world”
Perhaps you could be kind enough to explain in what the world was evil before the existence of man?
It Would also be interesting to know what “placed” man on the earth?
Indeed. It’s just nonsense masquerading as piety.
Yeh the Garden of Eden story is supposed to tie evil to the genesis of man.
Knowledge is a double-edged sword, not just something which provides limitless agency.
And man can be a steward over nature, but ultimately the world is beyond his control and attempts to shape it can result in disaster.
Deep down European leaders have never really believed that Russia was going to invade them, which is why they are content with their tiny unprepared militaries.
Russia isn’t going to invade us. Putin is a nasty little thug, but he’s not barking mad. And he’s not Hitler. What he wants to do is re-incorporate orphaned ethnic Russian populations back into the mother country and build a buffer against NATO.
Do the same thought experiment under the assumption that the USA doesn’t exist.
Haha! I thought so.
I just did that and came to exactly the same conclusion. The notion that Putin wants to send his tanks rolling up Whitehall and install an army of occupation in Europe is pure paranoid fantasy. He’s a traditional Russian despot, not Hitler.
Also, it isn’t “Putin” – it’s Russia, and average Russians are in fact angry at Putin, if anything, for being too soft and passive. It serves Western Europe to pretend it’s all about Putin and his insane plan to resurrect the Warsaw pact, but reality is different.
The Russians (not Putin, Russians) have
A) zero intention of even trying to invade Eastern Europe
B) But also have zero appetite for a hostile NATO being moved all the way to their borders.
And funnily enough, the US warmonger elite themselves didn’t believe the first, or they would have done a better job if arning Ukraine.
They did count on the second, hoping that tempting Ukraine would suck in the Russians into a forever war
If moving soldiers into Ukraine was intended to stop nato on Russian borders then it had already failed before it begun since 4 nato states already bordered Russia and since the invasion two more countries, one with a large border to Russia as well, have joined the alliance, whatever remains of Ukraine when the war ends will be absolutely desperate to get into nato no matter what
Exactly!
Why would we defend Europe after the way the EU treated us when we wanted to leave their club?
We can easily defend ourselves without them. Our defence budget is plenty (though 3% is better). We need to defend our waters, our airways, our offshore infrastructure and our trade routes. The means air defences, navy, intelligence and nukes. All of which we have but need to strengthen – as per the 2021 Integrated Review.
What we don’t need is more mechanised infantry designed to fight in continental Europe or Arabia. Those places are other people’s problems.
The irony is that if we look to our own defences and specialise with a world class navy, a large nuclear stockpile, cutting edge cyber capabilities and a comprehensive air shield, we will also be much more valuable as an ally to America and Europe.
There’s a lot of truth in that. There’s a reason Britain has traditionally had a small army and a powerful Navy. As you say, a powerful navy would also complement the armies of potential European allies.
Many historians believe that the Royal Navy’s blockade of Germany won WW1 for the allies. We would have been far better to have not involved ourselves in the trench warfare and instead just concentrated on our maritime strength.
Same here. In the unlikely event of an attack on NATO by Russia then Poland, Germany and France could supply land forces while we blockade sea routes and launch aerial attacks from seaward.
Specialisation isn’t only beneficial in trade relationships but also in military ones – a mediocre French navy and a small, poorly armed British army, helps no one. A world class Royal Navy and a new Grande Armee would be a force to reckon with.
And the Royal Navy could protect Britain from the Grande Armee!
In other words we should have repeated Pitt’s and later Castelreagh’s strategy of 1793-1815 (with a short intermission.)
“moralising and imperious”?
That describes the European ruling class to a T.
That was my first thought too! At least Vance’s moralising and imperious manner (if you think he is like that) are backed up with hard power. Europeans are all mouth and no…nukes.
Few drones, stinger missiles, iron dome, battle-ready tanks, supersonic aircraft, special forces, etc. It’s more than just nukes.
A reasonable strategy for Ukraine at the beginning of the war would have been for the west to throw everything at it – arms (within reason) and economic sanctions on Russia – with the overall strategy of holding back the Russians, capitalizing on short-term gains as much as possible, and bringing the Russians to the table for a negotiated peace as soon as possible, all in the understanding that the longer the war goes on the worse it is for Ukraine/ the more Russia will take back its overwhelming advantage via arms and men.
The Biden admin encouraged European and American hubris, a culture of NPC platitudes and pompous idealism, indulged the foolish idea that Ukraine could actually *win*, and war-feverish binary thinking over ‘appeasement’, but all at the same time taking pathetic virtue signalling half-measures over supplies and sanctions — Europe continued to pay for Russian fossil fuels and Germany’s Zeitenwende was always going to be pathetic.
All without any real objectives or strategy.
Now the chickens have come home to roost and much of the useless European and UK chattering classes descend into hysteria.
A reasonable strategy for Ukraine would have been to allow Russian speakers to speak Russian, and stop it’s army attacking its own people with artillery: and become a neutral state, like Austria.
And no-one would have been killed in military action.
James David Vance is the epitome of what so many Europeans loathe about America: brash, insular, moralising and imperious.
And I’m sure plenty of Americans hate how moralising and imperious many Europeans (including multiple leaders) have been about them – particularly since 2016.
Re: Britain. I’ve come to the conclusion in the past few years that the country deserves insulting and Vance – who I admire – is obliging. Not as an enemy or a nasty person, but as a good friend who is trying to shake the Brits out of delusions and torpor.
Great comment as usual. I hope he succeeds but fear that he might be too late.
I’m pleased that Vance has told European leaders some home truths. They have screwed up their countries beyond what was imaginable, and remain in their Political Bubble.
I remember the early 1960s, and England was content, and the country was looking forward to the technological advances that its Scientists and Engineers were developing. We were at the leading edge. We were still getting over WWI, let alone WWII, but the future was there for the taking.
And our politicians, unversed in anything but History ‘of any sort’, that inhibits Wisdom, Law, that prohibits Justice, and Technology that is for the fairies, have failed to deliver anything, but Failure itself.
And Vance won’t be the last to tell the Truth.
Well summarized
All while conveniently forgetting the Germans and Europeans laughing and ridiculing Trump when he pointed out their reliance on Russian energy…who has insulted whom…laughing as we pay for their security and they buy energy from the boogeyman
James David Vance is the epitome of what so many Europeans loathe about America: brash, insular, moralising and imperious. And yet — even more annoyingly — like America itself, he combines this with intelligence, education, wealth and, ultimately, power.
You forgot a very important item: Vance is self-made. He rose from a very poor background through hard work, dedication, humility, and brilliance. Europe has very few leaders of this type. Thatcher was one.
Vance’s message could be boiled down to this: Don’t commit national (or regional) suicide. Reject the things (e.g., Progressivism and its attendant ills) that make you weak and regain the strength you once had. Our alliances will be stronger if our partners are stronger.
At any rate, this codependent relationship between the US and Europe is no longer healthy for either party and something has to give. During the Cold War, the US needed client states to oppose communism and were willing to pay for them. Much of what passes as European policy priorities, from their generous welfare states to their tedious regulations to their embrace of draconian climate policies, were and are luxuries that were bought with the financial, political, and military support of the US during that era. Europe likely won’t be able to afford all of them if they can afford any of them in the coming era. The reality check had to happen sooner or later.
The truth hurts and this article gives us it to us in spades.
UK defeats in Iraq & Afghanistan are not normally mentioned never mind admitted.
Our political class have been weak and vaccillating for decades leaving our once great country in a dire economic position.
Let us hope the present turmoil in politics continues and out of it all a new and courageous leader emerges to fix our economy and restore our values.
Nah, he offends us because he’s just rude.
Being polite hasn’t worked, and time is running out for the UK. It might have already run out for the larger nations in the EU.
It’s precisely this politesse nonsense that’s enfeebled Europe – all the while, the elites exploiting their presumed cultural superiority to shaft its citizens.
the US should’nt be so smug, they have per population the same amount of personal in their Army as the British Army, despite spending nearly a Trillion per year
The US performed far worse in Afganistan and Iraq than the Brit’s and the US armed forces are in a far worse state, the insitutional rot has hollowed out the US armed forces, just look at their soldiers,hardly the best
So the US might laugh at the UK/France , but the US Army has less than 500k Soldiers, Russia has 2.2 Million. even Ukraine has more soldiers
The reality is the US is no longer a world power, it’s a regional power at best and the UK seems to get far more done with far less money, but that’s always been the case
And Maybe the US should have listened to the UK in Iraq and they would’nt have made a complete bulls up of it
There’s none so blind as those who will not see.
OK, so Britain has two pointless, undefendable aircraft carriers, which could be joined together to form the largest catamaran, ever, but what else has been successful, without being thrown away, just when they become worth keeping?
It’s not the number of soldiers that counts it’s the hardware, where the US is vastly superior.
the UK lost Iraq/Afganistan
What did the US win it , as i remember the US Armed forces being incapable of getting their people out of Afganistan (which the UK managed to do) running away while leaving $80 Billion worth of modern military equipment
Is that the same kinda win the US had in Vietnam
I also don’t remember the US win in Iraq
So as the US made up the bulk of the forces in those countries, weird to say the UK lost it, and the US won it
There’s none so blind as those who will not see !
Do you want Vance to correct every US foreign policy mistake in his lifetime, before pointing out to Europe the blindingly obvious?
He should be considered a friend, and accept the reality, even if it hurts, so it can be put right.
But the current motley crew in Brussels will reject it, and Westminster will continue to toe the Whitehall line.
Thanks Tom, enjoyed that immensely. And if I may add; we are not weak, it is our feeble elites who, unable to brook any challenge, resort to surveillance and repression of free speech. Hiding behind their amplification and stoking of minority grievance to silence and alienate. Talk to almost anyone and, there is strength of character and a sense of huge injustice against deeply held beliefs of what we, true ethnic British stand for.
In the ge2024 we took the soft option and the UK electorate put 600 MP’s out of a total of 650 from the #Uniparty into Westminster.
Just think about that ?
Lowest turnout since 2001 and that was the lowest since 1922….
JD Vance will very likely be president once Trump’s term has concluded.The Democrats need a generation in opposition to repent and recalibrate. So for purely practical and sef-interested reasons, we need to start listening to what JD says. The Age of American Largesse is over. While post-Cold War Europe was slashing defence budgets to finance ever expanding state welfarism, Russia took note. And so has Trump. The fact that Europe including the UK has weak and mediocre political leadership is obvious. A continent that no longer values its own defence, national security or free speech is ripe for criticism from the US VP. And the US taxpayer is no longer obliged to tolerate our failings.
Not even Donald Trump thinks JD Vance will succeed him. It will be someone else.
Fascinating
1. Since there is no ‘European’ interest in whose interest would a European army act? And what body would determine and direct it?
2. Vance didn’t name Britain in his comment, yet ‘Britain’, or at least those who claim to represent it took offence. If the cap fits as we say…
3. The British army performed so badly in Basra that they only avoided being driven out by letting the militias operate freely. It took US troops, already battle-hardened from brutal fighting in Falujah, too dig them out. It was one of the most shameful episodes in British military history.
Britain has spent much of this century fighting — and dying — alongside America.
Not the Eurocentric view of the American Secretary of State, Charles Evans Hughes.
The British response to Vance’s comment is to get out the DVD of Darkest Hour. GCSE jingoism. The British Army is short of cooks.
The USA spent a great effort over a long time since 1945 in promoting European integration. Yet Europe still has multiple personality disorder. Who is speaking today?
The US and Europe can’t fix their own problems, but they can meddle in each others’ failures, though the US does now have a captain that knows where he’s going.
Ukraine is going to be latest in a long line of conflicts lost by the Americans. For a nation that spends the amount they do on the military, snd with all the sophisticated equipment they have they really are pi$$ poor at fighting wars.
The Koreans, Vietnamese, Kurds, Iraqis, Afghans and now Ukrainians have all been let down and abandoned by the yanks
And Europe’s been great?
You speak of the past: the future will be different, though how different, only the Future will tell. But it does look promising, if you are willing to swallow your pride and work intelligently.
Oh, and get rid of the current Political Bubble: without that, all will be lost.
The US fought those wars well. The leaders and population lost interest and support melted away. The American population has a very short attention span, being made shorter every day by TikTok etc.
Oh, look, a squirrel…
The Americans aren’t fighting a war in Ukraine.
A useful observation – if an uncomfortable one for a Brit like me to accept. As I see it the U.K. like the EU , has had thirty five years of dreadful and delusional Government – for which we can only blame ourselves. Getting out from under this mess is a project of decades and demands honest and steadfast political leaders and voters who are prepared to accept the necessary changes (more individual responsibility, less and better targeted welfare, more effective defence of our nation and its borders , lower taxes and much less debt) Tragically I fear the chances of this are very slight.
In the ge2024 we took the soft option and the UK electorate put 600 MP’s out of a total of 650 from the #Uniparty into Westminster.
Just think about that ?
The electorate voted, the electoral system mutated that vote into a result.
My comments seem to not have the vote up/down symbols attached to them. Is this happening to anyone else?
If you refresh the page and the comment dissappears your account is on hold.
Sometimes it sits there but only you can see it. Again you have been temporarily banned.
The only way you can know is to open Unherd on another place and don’t log in.
Thanks
Again gaslighting-Unherd ignores Vance’s attack on Britain and its record on human rights and free speech. Tommy Robinson is incarcerated for being a journalist.
McTague and Unherd you are pathetic. You are right. He feels contempt for you and the UK. I do as well.
Someone commented here before that an American man is what an Englishman would be if he was free to be.
Vance offends you McTague becsuse you know it is true.
The English do not respect themselves. That is why they bend the knee. They allow themselves to be bullied. They watch silently when their countrymen are bullied and mistreated. They produce a ruling elite who celebrate this happening to the UK.
A country gets the Government it deserves. And the media reflects its people.
McTague calls Vance’s comments “dishonest” then spends the rest of his article demonstrating why they’re not.
Some self-insight wouldn’t go amiss.
(This point may already have been made in Comments – haven’t read them yet.)
Agreed — “the dishonesty of his casual asides” — what dishonesty Tom? And “neither side has emerged with much credit” — surely Vance has only enhanced his reputation as a truth-teller.
The UK, and Europe more broadly, is already colonised and invaded territory—both geographically and institutionally. The European chickenhawks squawking for ‘war’ with Russia are the very same people who do nothing to defend Europe’s borders against third world invasion, and remain silent as woke imperialism sweeps through our institutions, fuelled by wads of American USAID cash.
If Putin were woke and threatened to invade, Starmer and the rest of the yapping EU poodles would no doubt roll out the red carpet and welcome him with open arms.
I thought JD Vance was intelligent but the White House debacle showed the limitations of that. His intelligence is perhaps only when he has the time to write create talking points and speeches, it’s not of great and deep knowledge of the subjects he is talking on.
He wouldn’t have lost his cool at Zelenskyy if he hadn’t been shown up for being intellectually incompetent in the Ukraine/Russia history and discussion.
From the latest Private Eye: “If you’re an amateur psychologist, you might also wonder if the sight of an undoubtably brave leader like Zelensky, who refused to leave his country when war broke out, needles a man who dodged the Vietman draft by claiming to have bone spurs. The same goes for the wider MAGA movement, which is *obsessed* with rugged masculinity despite their preferred method of combat being mean tweets.”
Vance offends Brits because he dismissed our fighting alongside the US as an ally – denied it even.
He also offended countless American vets who posted their admiration for their British comrades in response to Vance’s stupid comment.
Britain knows why it should help Ukraine resist Russia and if called on help protect a ceasefire there. Russia must be contained.
Germany is already leading the way with fiscal relaxation for arms and infrastructure in Europe.
Europe will rise and America will count the cost of no longer controlling it.
Putin has been in power about 25 years. Where is the attack in Europe we keep being promised? All he’s done is sell you folks affordable energy. Just what is it that requires containing?
Russia was too weak after it collapsed in 1989-90 to attempt military action against NATO, especially as back then the USA was a reliable ally of Western Europe. It still lacks the strength for a conventional war after the damage it has taken in Ukraine but of course continues to build up and we can assume will redouble this effort after a ceasefire in Ukraine and now quite possibly with the aid of the Trump administration which seems to want to have sanctions lifted quickly.
NATO as I’m sure you know was established to contain the USSR, which was a Russian empire. Putin tried to get NATO rolled back in his demands before invading Ukraine. His own writings and propaganda machine make it obvious he would like to dominate the eastern European countries that managed to join NATO after the end of the Cold War. He won’t try this if he faces superior military force to his west.
You only focus on Britain and France who have sent many troops into battle. How about the other 25 European countries? Italy, Spain, Germany, Norway, Austria, and, yes, Switzerland. Vance’s statement was aimed much more at them.
Also most of them hardly raise a cent for their own defence and expect USA to pay for everything. “Coalition of the Willing” is supposed to frighten Putin? Vance is right to call them and their weasel words out.
Is Vance uttering insults or malicious truths? Officials are clutching their pearls over his tone while ignoring his words.
Great article. This is why I subscribe to Unherd. Even the Spectator has submitted to the general hysteria and hand wringing over Vance recently.
Who says Eurpeans hate Vance? The MSM? If we believe the msm then you would conclude that Americans also hate Vance. The real issue is that the European media is even more captured than the American one. But I assure you many people here resonate with the words of Vance.
Great article in general but I have to add something to this paragraph:
“At the heart of Vance’s complaint is not just a frustration with European capabilities — a long-standing source of annoyance — but a fundamental rejection of what is, at heart, an attempt to extend America’s security guarantee to Ukraine primarily to protect our own security. The US has made clear, repeatedly and explicitly under successive administrations, that it will not fight a war with Russia for Ukraine. Until now it has agreed to pay for Ukraine to fight the Russians, but it has consistently refused to go any further than this. Europe’s attempt to wrestle out of Trump a “backstop” commitment is, in effect, an attempt to change this policy as part of any future peace agreement. Trump has said no.”
Ukraine surrendered its nuclear weapons in the early 1990s as part of deal with the USA, Russia, Britain and France that included security guarantees. The eastwards expansion of NATO that Russia either claims is a serious provocation or actually believes (it makes no difference which) was carried out with the express consent and cooperation of the USA – something that the ex-Soviet ambassador George Kennan remarked at the time was a mistake, and so it has proved.
The point here is that it is not tenable for the new US administration to act as if the Ukraine War is some sort of European folly that it has the right to settle purely as a matter of convenience to itself. The USA is party to both the security guarantees given to Ukraine and the subsequent geopolitical mistakes that led to the Russian over-reaction commencing in 2014. It makes no difference who is really at fault over this because the whole point of competent statecraft is to read the other side and understand how they will react to what you decide to do. It isn’t to do whatever you want as long as you think you can blame the other side for the consequences, that’s for children in the playground, not nations, and there’s a regrettably-large aspect of this type of defensiveness in the mindset of many European opinion-formers instead of the more professional attitude that would serve us all better.
I do however understand why the USA is now taking this line: Trump and Vance understand, quite rightly, that if Russia is beaten and humiliated on the battlefield in Ukraine, it will make inevitable a Sino-Russian bloc that might possess the power to threaten the entire world, not merely Europe. Such an outcome is to be avoided at pretty much all costs. But the diplomatic approach to it – if it can even be called that – adopted by Trump and Vance seems, to me, to be absurd and indefensible. Perhaps they have their reasons, but if so I cannot guess what they are.
The reason for Trump’s and Vance’s stance is that our country is $37 trillion in debt, on the precipice of bankruptcy and we can no longer sustain it. Trump also hates the death and destruction that are part and parcel of war, a position that has held constant with him since he first started commenting on politics 25 years ago. (Thus his responses in the global theater such as destroying the Russian air force with no causalities in Syria, and going after Qasem Soleimani in Iraq rather than Iranian troops.)
Vance wrote a long and detailed piece in the WSJ when he first became a Senator that reviewed the economics and manufacturing logistics of this war and what it has done to drain literally all the weapons making capabilities that we have and still has not been accomplishing the goal at hand.
I think you are spot on as to Trump’s concern about a Sino-Russian bloc as well. But the pre-eminent issue in this quagmire is the fact that there is no outcome that sees Ukraine prevailing that would keep Russia at bay if they have to cede the territory they have won up to this point. And the “mistakes” since 2014 are 100% the crux of his quest to eliminate the US deep state since they were the largest reason for said “mistakes.”
And edited to add: Trump warned Germany in particular that it was a huge mistake to be sourcing all of its energy from Russia in a speech he gave at the UN in 2019, and the German diplomats sat back in their chairs and just laughed at him. Now it is discovered that Europe as a whole has given the Russians more money for their oil- which is the largest sustaining factor in the Russian effort- than it has given to Ukraine to fight this war. Now THAT is what should be called absurd.
I don’t dispute that Trump is right on a great many things, and on the history of how we came to be at war with Russia in Ukraine, I agree with him too. I make two main points above, firstly that Trump’s government cannot simply act as if previous US governments played no part in the course of events, and secondly, in any case nothing permits Trump and Vance to behave towards Zelensky and Europe in general they way they have in recent days even if we agree with them about the course of events and the series of dangerous mistakes made by all concerned.
I completely agree with you on the matter of the US debt trajectory and the pressing need to get control of it in a rapidly changing world that doesn’t forgive fiscal folly. It’s a subject dear to my own heart where the UK is concerned.
I would posit that much, if not most of the world only saw the last ten minutes of that conversation in the White House between Vance, Zelensky and Trump… meanwhile, conservative and alternative media in this country released the entirety of the fifty minute conversation which was deeply analyzed by such media. Conclusion was that Trump was repeatedly gracious toward Zelensky and let several points of contention go in order to further the goals of the meeting, and finally when Vance stepped in, it was because Zelensky wouldn’t stop lecturing to us about OUR interests. Meanwhile, American diplomats let it be known that three times (now a fourth) Zelensky agreed to sign a rare earth minerals deal, which would have given the US a vested interest in actually providing security to the region, only to disparage the deal around others and pull out at the last moment. The thing you Europeans have to realize is that Trump will do what he thinks is right regardless of the hectoring and preening of the rest of the world. As I have said on this page before (to deletion by the erudite editors of this publication) Trump was born on a full moon and very close to a lunar eclipse, with the planet Uranus (chaos, disruption and breakthrough) in his tenth House of career, public face and legacy. He will NEVER behave as the rest of the global diplomatic community expects him to. Get used to it.
I’ve read a decent amount of garbage recently but I must award you first prize.. you’re heavily deluded, (probably as a result of Russaphobic delusion?): you need to study history, logic and reason; and maybe ease up on the rhetoric!
There is nothing Russophobic in my comment, I am referring to history in it, and if you dislike reading garbage may I suggest that the need to proof-read your own comments will be by far the largest contributor to that particular problem.
Great article – but in military terms, how successful has US been recently? From Korea onwards, has it won any military victories? I mean apart from bullying tinpot dictatorships like Libya and Iraq.
I find it sad that, with so much imperial experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, the armed forces our leaders chose to send were incapable of conducting any meaningful operations.
So, Rule of Law you say? Eh, your support for a warcriminal kinda makes that laughable, doesn’t it? Your support for genocide and crimes against humanity remove all semblance of respectability as well. So we can forget that silly argument, please?
In my opinion, European nations are far more likely to go to war against each other than get together to build up a pan European army. And can we stop using the term “defence” when we mean attack! Against whom does Europe need to defend itself? Russia? ..not the slightest evidence Russia poses a threat? China? Even less so! But yes, you do let it slip, don’t you! There is indeed one very powerful, belligerent, warmongering, greedy bunch of killer invaders we do need to protect ourselves from!
Great article Tom – one of the best analyses I’ve read. Thank you.
An outstanding article. Or perhaps just one with which I agree. I find it hard to distinguish in these polarised times.
No. I think it’s because he’s a total tool.
Just who does this guy think won the Iraq war?? Britain has become so self-defeatist, its elite journos can’t even admit it was on the winning side of a war.
Vance rhymes with ignorance and arrogance.
Killer argument – well done!
Well now, THAT really added to the discussion. Can you spell lame, lamer and lamest?
I am unable to see the comments to an article unless I comment myself and go the “my comments” menu and come back to the article. Does this happen to anyone else?
Certainly true as far as Trump is concerned. He has always been about a foreign policy based on mutual self-interest between the countries in question.
Britain, too, will soon begin to ask what is in it for us as part of the proposed peace keeping settlement
Mmm..I doubt it.When Trump campaigned on an America first policy he meant it and means to deliver it-he sees his primary obligation to the American people-the polar opposite of our strutting elite who are desperate that Britain ” be seen to be leading the world” and ” ensuring our influence is maintained”.Pick any topic-net zero and uncontrolled immigration are classics-both are clearly against the interests and welfare of the British people but are justified by “our position in the world” and “to be seen to be taking the lead”.Witness the totally useless Anneliese Dodds resigning in a fit of outrage when the OA budget was cut to 0.3% of GDP(which is still £9 billion to piss down the tubes when we have to borrow it on the Gilt market) and (from her resignation letter)- You have maintained that you want to continue support for Gaza, Sudan and Ukraine; for vaccination; for climate; and for rules-based systems. Yet it will be impossible to maintain these priorities given the depth of the cut;…………a reduced voice for the UK in the G7, G20 and in climate negotiations…. .Ultimately, these cuts will remove food and healthcare from desperate people – deeply harming the UK’s reputation……I am sorry that I will not be in post to deliver the groundbreaking new legislation on equality for Black, Asian and minority ethnic people, disabled people and LGBT + people to which we are committed.
Its truly desperate and depressing stuff-not once does she prioritise the British people.
We are bottom of the pile when it comes to these sorts of people. Our “standing on the world stage” is far more important than the welfare of their indigenous citizens. They only notice us when they want our cash to fund their ridiculous anti-UK policies.
“James David Vance is the epitome of what so many Europeans loathe about America: brash, insular, moralising and imperious.”
Sir Keir Starmer is the epitome of what so many Americans loathe about Britain: perfidious, condescending, fawning and righteous.
I don’t agree that Vance is “brash, insular, moralising or imperious. The Brits cannot cope with a politician of stature who does not mince his words.He was right about the UK assault on free speech (and two-tier justice); he was right to put the obnoxious Zelensky in his place; and he was right to identify the woeful paucity of the EU’s and UK’s military capacity and capability.
I hope Mr Vance continues to speak his mind thereby bringing a refreshing honesty and frankness to political discourse that hasn’t been evident since the days of Winston Churchill, and also Maggie Thatcher. ‘Smarmer’ Starmer and his EU counterparts only speak in with weasel words with not commitment to action, for which they are disliked and not respected; in contrast to the Trump administration which speaks plainly and acts.
Vance doesn’t upset me. His views on free speech and immigration are completely logical and honest. I just wish our main stream politicians had the courage and honour to take this position.
A very penetrating analysis and much too close to the truth for comfort, I fear
Good article.
I’ll only quibble with this bit: “America might one day be a threat to European interests”.
Suez? Nord Stream?
America has been a threat to European interests since 1776, though until 1991 the net impact for ordinary Europeans was broadly positive.
We can argue about the motives behind America’s entry into WW1 and WW2. At least some of the leaders involved, and probably most of the soldiers, fought German tyranny out of a sense of kinship and shared values with the nations under attack.
But (not unreasonably) the American ruling class expected something in return for its efforts. From 1945 onwards, as we saw with Suez and the Cod Wars, British and French elites would only be allowed to pursue their interests if they didn’t interfere with American elite interests.
The conflict in Ukraine hugely benefited some Americans: not just the American military-industrial complex, but American gas producers and all the American companies that will enjoy opportunities in Ukraine in the future.
For Russia, the outcome is mixed. Their ideal would be a Ukraine like Belarus – nominally independent, but economically and militarily wedded to Russia. Thanks to Victoria Nuland and friends, Western Ukraine has a new master. I wouldn’t have risked WW3 for this outcome, but there we are.
Still, Russia managed to hang on to the ethnically Russian bits of Ukraine, and hopefully they’ve done enough to discourage attacks in the future. The new border will resemble the Russian border with Latvia, Estonia and Finland. They can make the most of the territory in Eastern Ukraine without worrying about troublesome Ukrainian nationalists.
The EU has so far avoided sacrificing any young men in Ukraine, but they’ve thrown in billions of euros without much to show for it, and they’re in a weaker position now than before the war. Cheap gas from Russian pipelines makes more sense for Europe than compressed LNG shipped across the Atlantic, and an arms race with Russia will be both dangerous and costly.
Even so, Americans aren’t the chief villains here – not Trump, nor Vance, nor even Biden, Obama and the Clintons. Our outrage should be directed at our own treasonous leaders.
Americans didn’t force us to pursue Net Zero. Americans didn’t force us to throw open our borders. Americans didn’t force us to undermine individual liberty and the rule of law.
Some Americans had a malign influence, not least Gates and Soros, but our leaders accepted it.
“Fighting forever with what? With whose money, with whose ammunition, and with whose lives?” – JD Vance
“Fighting forever with what? With whose money, with whose ammunition, and with whose lives?” – JD Vance
“Fighting forever with what? With whose money, with whose ammunition, and with whose lives?” JD Vance
Quite factual!
The truth always hurts.
British is a busted flush.
I had truly hoped that Vance would live up to his roots and fine education, and would be the rational and moderating voice in Trumps regime. I could foresee in him future president material. Unfortunately his Munich speech and Oval office bullying have only proven, how ignorant he is of history, diplomacy and world affairs. Instead of using his intelligence for good, he prefers to play Trumps sycophant and puppet to climb the ladder.
Beard, emotionality, camp macho posturing = closet.
It takes one to know one
PEN America found 10,046 instances of individual books banned, affecting 4,231 unique titles in 2023-24 in the US. And there is insistent talk of banning protests and deporting foreign students for protesting.
Clearly J D Vance is well qualified to lecture foreigners on freedom of speech or lack thereof.
He’s been rude, and quite ill informed so far. That’s the offence. European defence is however in rag order and needs sorting. But dissing Zelenskyy and pandering to Poootin is not good news for the world.
Zelensky has not indicated his willingness to accept a large loss of territory as part of the peace deal offered by the USA and Russia. Furthermore he has not dropped his interest in NATO membership and or other security guarantees. There can be no such assurances involving peacekeepers from America or any NATO power. The Ukrainian government must accept the Russian terms or they must fight on alone.
Speak for yourself. JF Vance does not offend me. I’m grateful to him.
Europeans will presently come to the realization war itself is somewhat different from the smart Ruritanian uniforms (often with swords) their soldiers wear on ceremonial occasions in Brussels and the lesser capitals. It wasn’t so long ago that the Germans marched with broom sticks on their shoulders because of a shortage of rifles. The British know this reality in their heart of hearts, which may account for Keir’s barely suppressed air of desperation when he visits Washington.
I suppose it was inevitable that the US withdrawal from Europe would be a difficult experience for Europe, particularly when its leadership is as weak as Europe’s is today. Then again, would De Gaulle or Helmut Schmidt have accepted that Europe will never again be a power (the attempt by each of its main countries to use the EU to become great (!) again goes to the heart of the contradiction in the EU “project”)? Would they accept that Europe itself (the continent) is coming to an end and that its future is as the western tip of Eurasia?
It seems to me that Vance’s comments on Europe, the EU and the UK were justified and in making them he exposed the nonsense of even thinking we can put troops into Ukraine.
The British Govt should be quite clear, we want no part of any peace security in Ukraine, that is up to the EU countries who we understand want Ukraine to become a member of the EU.
Heavily taxed, highly regulated societies, even those that are our historical allies, are not free.
Locking people up for social media posts while refusing to punish criminals, placing entire cities under house arrest during COVID, banning the possession of firearms and knives, throttling the private sector with libraries of laws – these actions are those of free societies?
America can afford a huge military because we are, largely, free. Europe has an insanely expensive welfare state, a reflexive aversion to standing militaries, and a reaction to dissent that’s akin to a spinster at a strip club.
I don’t know why Europe welcomes new arrivals whose views are incompatible with liberal democracy, while neglecting their own native, working classes. I don’t know why they insist we’re obligated to defend them, against a nuclear adversary. I don’t even know what freedoms we’re defending – while Western Europe isn’t Russia nor the PRC, the differences are moreso those of degree, than of kind.
The UK should be given some consideration as a relatively loyal if not militarily powerful ally, as well as to a lesser degree France. Five hundred soldiers is far better than none, and a coalition helps us in the eyes of the world.
But it’s clear our politics are increasingly divergent. In the US, we are primarily free market capitalists, with guaranteed rights and liberties. Most of Europe increasingly resembles our far left, and cedes its democracy to unelected bureaucrats, while expecting us to provide their muscle. We’d more happily defend you, I’d say, if we had a bit more in common.
Patronizing lectures from the direct descendants of aristocrats are a bit less than convincing. Build up your militaries, yes, but also extend democracy, capitalism, and freedom to your citizens. Those things aren’t supposed to be rare luxury goods.
He does’nt offend me.
“Vance is something sharper and more elusive; closer to Richard Nixon than most recent holders of the Vice Presidency“. I can’t recall Nixon wearing eyeliner though.