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Let’s talk about Ariana Grande’s body She represents an ideal of adulthood

Fragile self-image. (Credit: Don Arnold/WireImage)

Fragile self-image. (Credit: Don Arnold/WireImage)


December 12, 2024   5 mins

Let’s talk about Ariana Grande’s body. It’s difficult, not least because Ariana, 31, would rather you didn’t. She released a three-minute TikTok last year addressed to fans who were concerned that she was “too thin”. “I think we should be gentler and less comfortable commenting on people’s bodies, no matter,” she said. “If you think you’re saying something good or well intentioned, whatever it is… We just shouldn’t. We should really work towards not doing that as much.”

Today, 18 months on, there is more discussion of Grande’s body than ever before, driven by her appearance in the movie Wicked (she plays Galinda) and the associated press junket with her and co-star Cynthia Erivo (who plays Elphaba). She appears to be tinier than ever. The Mail called her “fragile”; the Standard called her (and Ervio) “scarily thin”. A friend took her seven-year-old daughter to see the film. “Mummy,” whispered the girl mid-screening in a tone of awe and amazement. “You can see all the bones in her chest!”

But the sport of publicly commenting on women’s figures was supposed to have died along with all the other vicious excesses of the Noughties media. What we now call body shaming used to be a staple of celebrity journalism — not just the bitchy bloggers, but also in newspapers, supermarket tabloids and glossy magazines. “Cellulite”, “muffin tops”, “cankles” and “thunder thighs” were all among the sins that could place a famous woman in Mail Online’s “sidebar of shame” or Heat magazine’s “hoop of horror” (a red circle with which the magazine highlighted supposed physical flaws).

The content creators justified this on the grounds that they were doing their women readers a favour by undoing the mystique of celebrity perfection. “Don’t get us wrong, we love celebrities, but we don’t put them on a pedestal,” said Heat’s editor Mark Frith in 2004. As the cult of size zero grew, celebrity body shaming grew to encompass the “scary skinny” girls such as the Olsen twins and Nicole Ritchie, whose skeletal frames became a matter of prurient concern. The sincerity of that concern can be judged from the fact that it was routinely expressed in the phrase: “She needs a sandwich.”

The ultimate body-shaming concern troll came in 2014, when the ostensibly feminist website Jezebel offered a $10,000 bounty for the unretouched originals of a Lena Dunham shoot for Vogue. “Dunham embraces her appearance as that of a real woman; she’s as body positive as they come,” explained Jezebel. “But that’s not really Vogue’s thing, is it? … It doesn’t matter if any woman, including Lena, thinks she’s fine the way she is. Vogue will find something to fix.” In other words, Jezebel was performing a public service by rooting out photographs of Lena Dunham looking imperfect.

“The sport of publicly commenting on women’s figures was supposed to have died.”

But the language it used was only a sidestep away from the oldest excuse in the book when it came to violating famous women’s boundaries. She wants to be looked at, ergo we have a right to look at everything. It’s just that, in this case, it came veiled in the rising language of “body positivity”: Dunham owed this to her audience. It seemed obvious, though, that Jezebel’s true interest in the originals was the hope that Dunham would look terrible, and that a lot of people would click through to see the full horror.

Jezebel had miscalculated. Dunham accused them of making “a monumental error in their approach to feminism… It felt gross.” And the public mood was more with her than it was with snarky upstart posters. When the pictures proved to have been only lightly edited, the whole thing fizzled out in a haze of disapproval. Magazines and websites pivoted to celebrating bodies rather than judging them. Glamour put the model Tess Holliday (UK size 26) on its cover in 2018; Cosmopolitan featured plus-size yoga instructor Jessamyn Stanley in 2021, with the tagline “This is healthy”.

The turn against body shaming was politically coded: as reactionaries like Jordan Peterson were calling plus-size models “not beautiful”, so the imperative for feminism was to take the body-positive side. That meant, in practice, a taboo on commentary about bodies entirely within feminist-inflected media. As most women know, there’s little more grinding than other people giving you their unsolicited verdict on your figure, and any conversation that takes place on the internet is effectively within earshot of the subject. That went for the thin as well as the fat: “Why is skinny-shaming OK, if fat-shaming is not?” asked recovering anorexic Emma Woolf in 2013.

“There should be no implicit or explicit assessment of any kind,” said the feminist philosopher Kate Manne earlier this year, while promoting her book Unshrinking: How to Fight Fatphobia. For her, even the term “body positivity” didn’t go far enough, and she instead proposed a concept that she called “body reflexivity”. “My own mantra became, ‘My body is for me, your body is for you.’ Our bodies are not there for comparison or correction or consumption. One’s own perspective on one’s body is the only one that matters.”

Put like that, this seems a clear-cut point of principle. It is also an impossible, unachievable ideal that supposes perfect individual subjectivity. But humans are not like that. Even Kate Manne is not like that. In her book, she writes about the fat influencers whose work she finds particularly encouraging or impressive. Clearly, she has an emotional reaction to their bodies which is inspired by identification with them. She experiences their bodies, in part, as something for her.

In any case, the placing bodies beyond discussion has never been a universal feminist aim. Other intellectual strands have sought different ways of talking about the body instead, trying to move beyond objectification and towards an understanding of the body as a political entity. In Susan Bordo’s 1993 book, Unbearable Weight, for example, she attempts to understand disordered eating in women not as an individual pathology, but as “a ‘crystallisation’ of particular currents, some historical and some contemporary, within Western culture”. This is a long way from Jezebel’s fishing expedition for kompromat on Dunham; but it’s equally remote from the belief that bodies are only ever “for themselves”.

Even when body positivity was at its height, it was an imperfect revolution. Concepts such as “wellness” allowed the dread “diet culture” a covert return; then the rise of semaglutide as a weight-loss treatment placed bodies firmly back in the realm of legitimate topics. How could we not talk about the fact that famous people were changing shape so rapidly and dramatically? But Grande is not a case where anyone would suspect her of medical intervention. She’s been in the public eye since she was 15; she was thin then, and she’s thin now.

The difference is that now, she is alarmingly thin. For this to be addressed publicly is undoubtedly not easy for Grande. “It’s a knife when they dissect your body on the front page,” she sings on Sympathy is Like a Knife with Charli XCX, and there is no way to have this conversation that isn’t painful to the person being talked about. But to not address it would be perverse, and the duty of care here is not only to Grande’s feelings. It is also to the young women and girls (many of them pre-adolescent) for Grande represents an ideal of adulthood.

Eating disorders are socially contagious and competitive. Grande insists that her current physique is healthy, but she does not look healthy, and anyone attempting to replicate her waifishness is unlikely to end up healthy. That needs to be acknowledged — not as a judgement on Grande, and not with goading comments about sandwiches, but as fact. To pretend otherwise, creates a situation where young women and girls can self-starve and no one is able to acknowledge it happening. That cannot be the correct outcome.

Talking about bodies is a precarious business. Grande is right that we should be “gentler”. Bodies deserve care, and there is no care in the engagement-baiting judgement of the click mill. There is equally no care in the phoney belief that Grande’s body affects no one but her. And even if that were true — can the only acceptable response to watching a young woman fade be to chide anyone who notices it happening? Let’s talk about Ariana Grande’s body. Gently. Let’s hope she’s OK.


Sarah Ditum is a columnist, critic and feature writer.

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James Rowlands
James Rowlands
1 month ago

skinny is much nicer than fatty

always

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 month ago
Reply to  James Rowlands

The truth is painful

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  James Rowlands

Healthy, natural, fit, slim (not bony). Add in kind and considerate and apart from a few outliers that’s what most men want.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
1 month ago
Reply to  James Rowlands

I would wager that most men would prefer ten pounds to many over ten pounds too few.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 month ago
Reply to  James Rowlands

‘Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels’.

mike otter
mike otter
1 month ago
Reply to  James Rowlands

I think in between is much nicer but the article explains why someone like my wife, BMI 22-23 looks in the mirror and thinks she’s fat! – 60+ and 3 kids. Many would love to have a BMI like hers BUT she’s remembering her ages 14-50 years with BMI 21-22 unless pregnant. Egged on of course by the numerous attention shrews that sadly make up most – though not all – of the female mediahadeen.

Roger Inkpen
Roger Inkpen
1 month ago
Reply to  mike otter

I wish I could give an extra thumbs up for ‘mediahadeen’!

Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
1 month ago

“We should be gentler.”

Maybe we should be more robust. If you want to insult my physical appearance, go ahead. I won’t write a book about it, or insist you change your behaviour. I’ll tell you to eff off and go back to getting on with my life.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

Who didn’t eat all the pies

Sylvia Volk
Sylvia Volk
1 month ago

Ariana, apparently.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 month ago
Reply to  Sylvia Volk

I like pies

Andrew Vanbarner
Andrew Vanbarner
1 month ago
Reply to  Sylvia Volk

I am happily enjoying three very high calorie slices of pizza, and several ice cold IPAs.
Fortunately, I make my living by doing the adult equivalent of moderately hard math homework for a private sector firm, and live much of my life on a laptop.
I don’t make my living by being a very beautiful young entertainer. I suppose if I did, I would have a very different lifestyle, on about a third as many calories, with dentists, cosmetic surgeons, personal trainers, dieticians, makeup artists, and fashion designers on call.
I would describe my own appearance as, at best, presentable. l don’t really need to be much else, honestly. Nor do most other working or middle class people.

Jack Robertson
Jack Robertson
1 month ago

When will the Age of Celebrity be over, please? Would someone wake me up when fame stops being a thing? Can’t somebody make these ludicrous people f**k off?
It’s a choice to be famous. It’s an act of wilful agency to try to make a living by standing in front of a film camera or on a stage or going on reality TV or whatever – Look At ME ME ME ME ME ME, I WANNABE BE FAMOUS!!!!! – and accumulating legions of strangers into a personal Cult of Moi. Fame doesn’t happen by accident. Tedious narcissists like Grande aggressively and even viciously set out to make it happen. If they succeed – as she has – they make a lot of money and they get to wander around doing stuff they love to do, feeling Special.
But she doesn’t get to turn attention on and off like an ego tap. That’s not the deal the famous make with us nobodies. If Matchsticks Grande doesn’t want us strangers discussing her body – or anything else about her – she should get the f**k off our TVs, off our public stages, out of our cinemas and out of our f*cking mass cultural faces. Go and become a disability carer. Go and study to be a school teacher. Be an RAF pilot. Pick up rubbish for the local council. Sing at the local pub in your off time, strictly for fun. Get it? You want to be famous, instead of getting a real fricking job…then by definition…we own you, mate.
Not such a great deal, is it?
Hence…someone wake me up when the Age of Celebrity is over. I have run out of f**ks to give for Humanity’s self-curated centre-of-attention wannabes, all these weirdo needy ‘famous people’ who fight like hell to get onto my iphone feed and then whine endlessly about my intrusiveness once they have. I want the entire concept of fame to die; to p*ss off out of our lives. All the famous, too. They are village deadweights, village freeloaders, village grandstanders, the village’s organic facsimiles of human beings. Being sympathetic or empathetic to ‘The Famous’ is as absurd an emotional category error as falling in love with your AI Sex Doll.

Nick Wade
Nick Wade
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Superb polemic.

Richard Ross
Richard Ross
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Well, as long as you’re not insanely angry about it.

Jack Robertson
Jack Robertson
1 month ago
Reply to  Richard Ross

One likes to think that in one’s earnestly studied Nobodyhood one is a perfectly sane, mostly well-adjusted and modestly productive member of the village, RR. I subscribe to the principle that some anonymous backroomer came up with it for Ronald Reagan to parrot: the way to really get something done is to shut up about it while making sure someone else gets any credit or plaudit that does come after you, like the treacherous jackals both are. All the great civilising advances have been the result of unheralded slog by clever and decent self-effacers who the historians will never notice – with such being their wilful (because enabling) intent.
Anonymity is a choice too; no-one’s giving Banksy any grief over their bod, are they. Fame is just a Club For Narcissistic F*ckwits, one you have to beg to get into, and then fight daily to retain membership of. I have zero interest/sympathy for anyone who chooses to join – and all of them do choose to join.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Far too simplistic, albeit with the benefit of a wonderful self-righteous feeling!. The Royal Family, for a start, don’t “choose” to join. Even the famous exist in a certain culture which they don’t entirely create themselves out of nothing. And also whatever happened to “two wrongs don’t make a right” as a pretty good moral injunction. The fact that some rather dysfunctional famous people court publicity and then dislike aspects of it, doesn’t justify the extreme and vicious antics of some of the media, old and new, desperately trying to dig up the most negative possible sounding stuff on these people.

Also people almost equally hate as well as love famous people. Aren’t you showing yourself to be just as much part of the system, by writing such intemperate posts as anybody else? We could just ignore these vacuous people? Just an idea.

Ah, but your iPhone feed……!! I think you probably could could control that more than you do…..

Jack Robertson
Jack Robertson
17 days ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Andrew, my apologies for the late response.
Your point about ‘involuntary’ fame is superficially fair enough but your example of the Royal family actually invites an exemplary countering argument. Central to it is the profound difference between ‘fame as personalised celebrity’, and public figures who are ‘famous’ in, and for, a public-facing role for which wide visibility is merely a corrolary by-product. The two most ‘famous’ Royals of my generation were Queen Elizabeth 2 and Princess Diana. Both were equally ‘recognisable’ to complete strangers as ‘Royals’, but whereas Diana was ‘famous’ as a ‘celebrity (Royal genre)’, Her Maj was the antithesis of celebrity. The internal tussle in ‘The Firm’ of that era could even be characterised as a kind of cultural war, between Royal fame as just another component of the modern age’s narcissistic personality cultism (for the populist entertainment of the Village), versus Royal fame as an ongoing expression of public duty, institutional protocol, the self-effacement of individual needs and wants…(for collective Village organisational, political and moral purposes). Diana was ‘famous’ for being, and as, a famous individual (needy, emotionally vulnerable, overtly compassionate, flawed, warm, giving); QE2 was famous for being anti-famous (self-effacing, emotionally implacable, even a little ‘cold’…the curated face of an institution). Importantly, both examples of ‘Royal fame’ were – I think – equally-calculating.
Not hard to see which kind prevailed. (Contrast the path each of Diana’s sons has taken: the future King & Queen clearly taking after his grandmother, Harry and Megan scrabbling for ongoing fame in his mum’s adored and chosen ShowBizLand – let’s see how renowned and remembered in the Village history makes each one.) Surveying the turgid public landscape of today, in which everyone and anything becomes ‘famous’ for all of ten seconds for any old noisy thing, but especially for plumbing ever-more nauseating depths of narcissistic desperation and self-debasement, it’s clear that ‘The People’s Princess’ profoundly re-set the template for public behaviour for even those civic institutions, like the Royal family, which have understood for centuries that…’fame’ of the ‘personality cult’ kind is institutionally and civically corrosive, even suicidal. Whether a future King William and Queen Kate will be able to withstand the relentless onslaught of the mass media – essentially a Fame-Making Machine, a shark which has to keep swimming or it dies, which must eat up real people for content-fuel, and cannot let anyone who might shift a few units get into or out of public life fully alive – is a really open question.
I wish them luck: don’t succumb to populism, Will & Kate; perform your civic roles. Be reserved, cold even. Be lofty, be self-effacing, do your duty, be stoic, stay distanced from the rest of us…be a f**king Royal. That’s your useful Village job.
It’s a crucial one for the Village, too. The vast majority of us will never, ever be ‘famous’. And deep down, no matter how much we might ’embrace’ populist personality cults, we still sense instinctively that ‘The Famous’ cannot ever really be ‘one of us’, and so we fundamentally (and wisely) distrust even the most enticing and ‘beloved’ Objects of populist fame. That’s why we – rightly, self-preservingly – invariably turn on these figures, sooner or later. (You are spot on, Andrew: yes, there is always an element of vindictive latent hatred lurking in Personality Cults, waiting to erupt – that’s why fame is such a bad deal, and the Village’s smart high achievers…run like hell from it!) Diana’s elevation to ‘The People’s Princess’ – again, let’s never forget that ‘fame’ of her kind is always a mere cynical, contrived product, knowingly made by the mass media, and always for $$ profit – was one of the great sneering ironies of my lifetime. The kind of shameless Show Biz grift Celebrity Culture has always shoved in our Nobody faces, uninvited and unwanted, but now does so with barely concealed disdain for the Village and all its Nobodies. F**k you, right back at ya, Celebrity Industry. F**k you all.
Whereas the fame that comes with ‘renown for a collectively useful reason, one all in the Village can share in and benefit from’ – hereditary Royalty, democratic mandate, real and substantial and sustained-over-a-lifetime accomplishment, rare excellence in one’s field of endeavour – is not really ‘fame’ at all, which is a contrived state of Humanity which sets one person in the Village apart from (and above) the rest of us. Rather, the kind of fame that QE2 died with is the fame of Village inclusion; the fame of true human representation; of universality; the fame of anti-fame.
Is there cross-over? Sure, you can become renowned for an achievement or a public role, and then leverage that fame into the self-perpetuating status of a ‘Celebrity Cult figure’. But…I sense that the worm is turning on this, at last. I think the universal, 24-7 global reach of internet self-publishing is rapidly diluting the Ariana Grande kind of fame, to the point where it’s just a tacky, shabby, public sideshow: a civic flashy trinket, rapidly rotating and ever-interchanging, each latest ‘hot thing’ indistinguisable from the last and easily and quickly discarded. (Currently, Warhol’s prediction was out by about 14 minutes and fifty seconds, increasing.) I think the impending Death of Celebrity – Coroner’s report: drowned, in its own ubiquity – is a very very very good thing. Especially for these fricking Celebrities themselves. Because the Ariana Grande who is the subject of this article, and these increasingly nasty public discussions about her body, isn’t the real Ariana Grande (it’s not even her real name). It – the Object we Nobodies know as Ariana Grande – is a fictional mass media-only invention. She’s a cardboard cut-out; a curated ‘pretend human being’. An act. A pose. Even the fragile vulnerability she projects in that odiously unreal PR shot, there at the top of this article, is staged: ‘Vulnerability As Faked Human News’. Just another highly-paid PR team’s cynical middle finger raised, at us all.
So when I say to ‘The Famous’: f*ck off out of our Village, you tedious, narcissistic, posturing, freeloading, grandstanding, attention-seeking w*nkers – cheerfully, with good humour and deep love for the real person imprisoned inside each ‘famous’ one – I’m not talking to a real human being, am I. So I can’t ‘harm’ them. I’m talking to a famous image only; a trick of mass media culture; a false god, even. If anything, mocking Ariana Grande’s publically-curated facsimile, her vicious jailer…is doing the real girl a truly compassionate favour and a civic courtesy. The favour is…encouraging her agency to make the wise choice to de-Objectify herself (get yourself the f*ck off the nasty Show Biz PR circuit, woman). The civic courtesy is…treating her just as I would any real flesh-and-blood member of our Village, and extending a loving human invitation. To rejoin us Nobodies, Miss Grande-Butera. To come and live as a proper human part of the human Village once more. The worse thing that can happen is that you won’t have to go around pretending to be something you are not any more. Among the many warm and loving benefits of being a Nobody; of being a normal person instead of ‘Special’ one? You might feel a bit more free to wolf down a decent Village-cooked meal from time to time. If that – as it appears to us, at least – is what you might really need, and…want.
Chrs, Andrew, apologies again for the delayed reply.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
30 days ago
Reply to  Richard Ross

Makes you wonder what he feels about people who post on websites.

Jack Robertson
Jack Robertson
17 days ago
Reply to  Bret Larson

Ambivalent. It’s why I prefer to lurk in other people’s comments sections – mostly!
We should all use our real names (because our identity is all most of us have). But we should all protect them from ever becoming an Objectified Famous Byline, Bret! Safety in Collectivity, comrade. Survival in anonymity. Fame doesn’t just kill one’s words. It cremates them! 🙂

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Tell us how you really feel Jack. No need to hold back 🙂

Jack Robertson
Jack Robertson
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Pish – I am barely out of second gear, Hugh! It’s only when you can see the flecks of spittle on my comments that you might fear for my BP…

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

I liked this comment, and the little thumbs up went from 78 to 96. That means that 18 people clicked like since my webpage last refreshed five minutes ago when I clicked this article. Beautiful rant, complete with excessive profanity and ridiculous hyperbole. This reads like classic Dennis Leary or George Carlin. Certain commenters on this website should ask to take a class from you on how to troll effectively. Kudos to you sir, Kudos.

Jack Robertson
Jack Robertson
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Thank you, Steve (though the kudos I must of course politely decline).
I’ve been ranting obscurely in other people’s comments boxes for a quarter of a century now. I am any early e-adopter, having fiddled with my own ‘blogspot’ (remember them?) for a few months last millennium, before arriving at the view that most online writers miss the point (and waste the epistemic potential) of the internet, obtusely treating all this gloriously unedited and interactive public space as just another Op Ed platform. As a result the world is now awash in polite, informed and succinct discursive opinion. That’s no bad thing, I suppose. Like political satire and interior decoration, marque opining that is intelligent and well put together can be both diverting and comforting. But unruly conversations involving multiple obscure voices are invariably more interesting and disruptive of orthodoxy than the crafted monologues of Bylines.
‘It takes a village’ to change the world, as the lefties say. And sometimes you have to chuck yonnies at the loud and visible minority to discover what, on balance, the silent and anonymous majority really thinks. If there’s a single Trumpish lesson worth noting it might be that…trolling is constructive! Best regards.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

A point well taken. If you’ve read many of my posts on here, you’re aware I tend towards the formal and the respectful. If I do humor, it tends towards the high brow, more of the Dennis Miller approach, big words and obscure references. We all have a certain nature I think. Hopefully our different approaches both add something to the conversation. I will never like Trump personally, but I have to admit I am developing a respect for his approach.

Andrew Vanbarner
Andrew Vanbarner
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Anger is in my opinion underrated. Anger focuses the mind, and can even be used to build strength. Anger is a motivator to oneself and a protectant against others. Anger is an entirely legitimate response to injustice, and if tempered by reason and logic, can bring about any number of positive things, from prosperity to accomplishment to justice.
Anger is an energy.
Insofar as celebrities are concerned, particularly delicate but utterly coddled and cosseted ones such as Arianna Grand, nothing illustrates female solipsism quite so well as the “look at my body, but don’t you dare look at my body” message they convey.
If you don’t want men to look at you at the gymnasium, wear modest clothing. If you don’t want your fans to “objectify” or criticize your body, try singing, or playing a musical instrument, or even writing a song. Turn in a powerful dramatic performance. Write something, using your brain, and not simply relying on a tiny waist, or an ample bosom, or callipygian buttocks, or striated abdominals.
Create a work of art, in other words, rather than presenting yourself as a sex object (or its opposite, if you’re a “fat rights” advocate determined to make a statement by embracing repugnance). Create art, or at least well done, sincere, tasteful entertainment.
Then and only then will you be known for more than “your body.” Until then, yes, of course you’re an object. You’ve made yourself so.

Jack Robertson
Jack Robertson
1 month ago

Aye, perfectly put. Choice: meet Consequence. Exercised Agency: meet Subsequent Outcome. Objectified Self: meet Objectified Self.
Ergo: Hi. My name is Sharon Stone. I’m not the world’s worst actor, but I’m not much above run-of-the-mill, either. So instead I elevated myself to the Hollywood A List and worldwide renown (and blockbuster acting incomes) by flashing my pubic hair globally via a crotch level gyno-camera and a hundred thousand sixty foot high technicolour screens. How dare the objectifying patriarchal world define me as that bimbo who…erm…flashed her pubic hair etc etc. Don’t you grubby men know I have an IQ of 154?! Where is the respect I deserve?
My name, on the other hand, is Sharon Nobody. I’m quite pretty too, with (I am told) a shapely figure and a sexy smile. I have been a primary school special education teacher for 15 years, earning forty thousand pounds a year. I am quite prudent in my dress and disposition at work, because sexualising the classroom even obliquely – as I easily could – is a lousy lesson to teach young men and women. I hope the world respects me; I work hard to earn it.
It’s hardly rocket science, is it. Maybe we’re all starting to wake up to the creepy, destructive and duplicitous cynicsm of ‘progressive’ thinking on matters of sexual morality, agency and interaction, too.Your comment is all of a piece with – adaptable for – other articles popping up here now, about Only Fans, about Shame, about Respect, #MeToo, and all that. It feels like a moment in which all that ’67 Summer of Free Love bullsh*t is finally getting the scrutiny – as the tool of nasty predators and louche opportunists – that it deserves. I’ve got a hunch that a lot of the gender ‘dysphoria’ – especially from young girls rejecting womanhood – is almost a flailing symptom of their instinctive recoiling from the lies feminism has told them about sex. Dunno quite how to articulate it better, but when you get girls wanting not to become women at rapidly growing numbers, to the point of preferring lifelong medicalising, and sterilising and orgasm-destroying self-mutilation…wow, has something gone seriously wrong with the Feminine Mystique.
Cheers AV. Quality line of logic/exposition.

Sue Sims
Sue Sims
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Mr Robinson: have you considered submitting an article to Unherd? You write considerably better than a large number of professional journalists and ‘experts’, and you’d get paid for it.

Carol Staines
Carol Staines
30 days ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Ranters of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but the dross that is showered around you daily! Onwards, onwards and stand up for ordinariness that could be interpreted as, err….normal?

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Amazingly accurate and superb response

Jim C
Jim C
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack Robertson

Great rant.
It should be noted that some women are just naturally very slight (and no, I have no idea if Grande is one of them, or is just thin because she starves herself so she can upbraid anyone looking at her).
But yes, anyone who whines about any kind of attention after a lifetime of chasing spotlights deserves a good slapping†, possibly with a sammich.
†metaphorically, obviously. Dear Reader, please do not slap Ariana Grande.

Lancashire Lad
Lancashire Lad
1 month ago

Perhaps Grande bears the psychological scars of being the “artist” who all those who died at the Manchester Arena bombing in 2017 went to see.

Not that i’d choose to waste my time and.money at any of these two-bit performers gigs, but a hidden sense of guilt might well manifest itself in the way the author describes. No, she’s not responsible for the actions of a terrorist, but the more she tries to convince herself of that, the more she might consider those people – mainly children – would still be alive but for her putting herself up on stage.

She’s caught in the fame trap, entirely of her own choosing, of course.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 month ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

The tragedy is that, unlike so many of her contemporaries in the sleb world, she is genuinely talented.

mike otter
mike otter
1 month ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

That is exactly what i thought – survivors’ guilt? and the concert goers too likely have complex trauma. The writer shows her ludicrous bias by bringing in Jordan Petersen who’s taste in bodies may not matchhers but is a matter of taste NOT ethics. A shallow article that wastes the writer’s and readers’ time. I heard one journo who’s bigging up the “hot assassin” doing the media circuit just now described as an “attention shrew”. Very accurate – especially when the journo is a woman talking about other womens’ bodies!

Peter B
Peter B
1 month ago

Most definitely first world problems.
Too fat = unhealthy
Too thin = unhealthy
End of.
I’d be interested to hear exactly why Sarah Ditum considers Jordan Peterson to be “reactionary” though. I find it hard to take articles like this seriously when such cheap sneers are included for no apparent reason other than virtue signalling.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 month ago
Reply to  Peter B

People that are too fat will be talked about.
People that are too thin will be talked about.
People that are beautiful will be talked about.
People that are ugly will be talked about.
Average people mostly go unnoticed.
That’s just the way it is; always has been and always will be.

Gordon Arta
Gordon Arta
1 month ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Fame is fleeting. Obscurity lasts forever.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 month ago
Reply to  William Shaw

If you’re the sort of person that doesn’t crave attention from others, as I am, it’s nice to be average looking. Something to be thankful for. Also helps if you’re a shoplifter, burglar, spy, or other such covert occupations. As if spies would look like Pierce Brosnan and Lucy Liu. They’d probably be rejected for spy work before they walked into the interview room.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
30 days ago
Reply to  William Shaw

They get to be spys.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 month ago
Reply to  Peter B

Reactionary = wisdom comes from experience.
Progressive = wisdom comes from children.

Vesselina Zaitzeva
Vesselina Zaitzeva
1 month ago
Reply to  Peter B

I was going to comment on exactly the same bit – the lazy labelling of Jordan Peterson as “reactionary”.
It seems that in certain progressive circles you cannot just mention a person whom you are told to hate without adding a degrading label to their name.
As for Jordan Peterson’s tweet for which rabid feminists were going to tear him apart, it was just his opinion. But it was soooo important not to let him get away with the “wrong” opinion on a vital issue of believeing unconditionally that there is nothing more beautiful and liberating than a fat woman in a high-cut swimsuit on the cover of “Sports Illustrated”, of all publications.
Btw, it would have been OK from the point of view of aesthetics if that woman had put on some more flattering clothes or even a more flattering swimsuit. However, the idea apparently was to show that it’s beautiful to be ugly, obese, and not even bother to think how to dress in a more appropriate and eye-pleasing manner. Because patriarchy and toxic masculinity, obviously.

Archibald Tennyson
Archibald Tennyson
1 month ago

Has anyone seen the clip of Ariane Grande and Cynthia Erivo during the Wicked press junket, describing the interviewer as a “ray of light” while holding hands?
It’s disturbing. They both look possessed, or at best oppressed. Eyes wide shut.
Pray for them. Pray for everyone.
“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendour was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.” Matthew 6:25-33

Vesselina Zaitzeva
Vesselina Zaitzeva
1 month ago

Yes, I have seen the clip and “disturbing” is too kind a word to use. It was terrifying, being at the same time insane and completely fake and devoid of any authenticity. (I mean, people who are really insane are authentic, albeit in their own way. )

Richard Littlewood
Richard Littlewood
1 month ago

Let’s not.

Malcolm Knott
Malcolm Knott
1 month ago

The woman is dangerously emaciated. Those who aspire to look like her are deranged.

Satyam Nagwekar
Satyam Nagwekar
1 month ago

I am all for not calling people names or being nasty. But to shut down comment, as Sarah says, is foolish. If you flaunt it, you got to have a little bit of thick skin to take the good with the bad. Not all discussion/coverage on topics like these is going to be gentle.

Derek Smith
Derek Smith
1 month ago

Re: the title

Can we just not?

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 month ago

This all feels so…early 2000s when the lollipop head du jour was Calista Flockhart.
The current discussion is possibly even less interesting.

Andrew Vanbarner
Andrew Vanbarner
1 month ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Last I heard, Ms Flockhart is still alive and well, and married to Harrison Ford.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 month ago

Why??

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago

That meant, in practice, a taboo on commentary about bodies 

Female bodies that is. No such taboo exists for male bodies.

mike otter
mike otter
1 month ago

What nonsense. As the comments suggest normal ppl don’t give any XXXXs about this. The woman above looks ill but IIRC her’s was the gig blown up by a terrorist on behalf of Islam? Whether this chap was “curated” by security services or was an actual terrorist the effects are the same: Trauma, survivors’ guilt etc can lead to eating disorder. Plus many women who live by showing their bods use drugs and that may keep them thin. I never understood the “heroin chic” the media (mainly women) kept praising or damning. Junkies are thin because food is lower on their priorities than junk or cigarettes or downers to reduce dope sickness. Financially secure junkies can eat a full meal as long as they’re not nodding out. Also why bring in Jordan Petersen? he may find curvaceous or over-weight ppl ugly – up to him – i don’t share his taste. But that does not make him a reactionary, EG a Man Utd fan is not a reactionary if he dislikes Man City! The logical and rational failures of Dittum (a collectivist/socialist/misanthropic type) render her unqualified to talk about this or anything else beyond what teenage girls talk about on the school bus. Perhaps her parents were 1st cousins?

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
1 month ago

Are we supposed to pretend not to notice when someone looks anorexic or when a clearly obese person is presented as healthy?

Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
1 month ago

Is Grande being snapped by paparazzi against her will as she quietly goes about her business? Was she kidnapped and forced to take a role in the film? She is happy for images of her to be forced on the general public for her own (and others’) financial gain. She cannot then claim the right to control what the public thinks of her. Especially as she does not distance herself from promotion as an icon for young girls and adolescents.

Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
1 month ago

At 16, Ariana Grande was cast in a Nickelodeon production. The documentary Quiet On Set: The Dark Side of Kids TV exposed allegations that adults working on shows for the Nickelodeon network had engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct involving child actors for years.
Ariana also appears to have undergone quite major cosmetic surgery for a teenager on her face.
Perhaps her anorexic appearance reflects on either or both of these episodes.

Chris Milburn
Chris Milburn
1 month ago

It’s fair enough not to comment on women’s bodies. Unless they put themselves out there as movie or pop stars, dress flamboyantly (and often skimpily) and – whether they mean to as not – become role models for our kids.
Not only would I comment that Grande is too skinny, I’d make it clear that she looks ridiculous. II don’t want any young girl to think that such a waif is healthy or beautiful, or that somehow working to emulate her body type is desirable (either as a health goal, or as a goal to become attractive to men).

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago

Excellent article. Thoughtfully discusses both sides. This is why I subscribe to Unherd. Thank you for seeing both sides so compassionately.

Robert Paul
Robert Paul
1 month ago

I am a physician who treats woman with eating disorders, particularly anorexia nervosa, restricting type. It can be associated with anemia, osteoporosis, electrolyte imbalances, brain atrophy, mitral valve prolapse and heart failure, amenorrhea and infertility, muscle wasting, and sudden cardiac death. Whereas one never wants to assess or diagnosis from afar, Ms. Grande has the body habitus often associated with girls and women struggling with anorexia. It is a disorder not simply driven by distorted views of appearance and acceptance, but also of control and perfectionism. In any case, the public scrutiny and ‘calling out’ is merciless and reprehensible and really, really sad.

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
1 month ago

When people tell you unashamedly, even proudly, that they are “Wicked,” and then go on PR tours where their very appearance seems to symbolize it – believe them.

Jim C
Jim C
1 month ago

The turn against body shaming was politically coded: as reactionaries like Jordan Peterson were calling plus-size models “not beautiful

I’m not sure Peterson is being reactionary here so much as observant.
I’m sure there are plenty of men who would take a “plus-sized model” home from the pub at the end of an evening of hard drinking, but the fact is that fancying enormous women when sober is a paraphilia; not in any way morally wrong, but an oddity nonetheless.

Jim C
Jim C
1 month ago

I’m not sure how genuinely interested in women’s bodies these journalists are.
Having spent a fair amount of time around writers, I have determined that many of them are as desperate for topics as they are for money… and have neither the knowledge nor intellectual wherewithal required to discuss anything of greater substance.
So carping about a woman being too thin/fat/perfect is an easy way to meet this week’s rent.

Peter V
Peter V
1 month ago

I feel its all well and good to cease the endless judgement of women, actually, any person’s figure, how they dress – though I do reserve the right to do so in the case of Sam Smith, whilst I fully respect and applaud their desire to lead the life they wish to lead, I can separate that from the fact that they do, on occasion, dress like an absolute lemon from time to time.

That said, where is the line between making any concerns public on the physical and mental health of a person based on the fact that they look extremely thin and emaciated verboten and essentially encouraging the next wave of anorexia through normalising such body types.
Of course, theres the other extreme as well, we shouldn’t be delighted that people can and will stuff their faces and be extremely overweight as well.
Its just that in all this ixnay on the skinny/fat-hay, thou shalt not comment on thy friends body and/or mental frailty business, we’re losing the ability to promote, well, a normal healthy lifestyle where one can eat three normal meals a day, have their five fruit & veg a day and maybe enjoy an alcoholic beverage or two every other week or so.
It just seems these days that, like with politics, the extremes (ultra BBW fat and ultra brat girl skinny) are winning and the center ground, once again, is losing.
Thats my concern in amongst all this.