It’s good show, but not a good excuse. (Roberto Ricciuti/Redferns)
Roger Waters presents Corbynism the Musical, and, unlike its source material, it is still going. On the 81st night of his tour, This is Not a Drill, there are two demonstrations outside the O2 arena. The first is to Free Julian Assange. A small group holds a cardboard cut-out of Assange (the real Assange is in Belmarsh), here to thank Rogers for his support. The second waves Israeli flags and shouts, “Roger’s a Racist!” and it is better attended, mostly by hecklers. And why not? It has more drama: as Rogers will say later, “It’s theatre, darling!”
This is Not a Drill just left Germany, where there were attempts to ban it. In Frankfurt, he played the venue where Jews were imprisoned after the Kristallnacht riots and in Poland his shows were cancelled. These cries have snowballed: the US government and Keir Starmer have pointed out Waters’s antisemitism. “Sixty fucking years [of making music] and they’re trying to cancel me, and it hurts,” he says later.
Yet here he is. The anti-Waters faction complained that he dresses as an SS officer in the show — he doesn’t; it is a generic fascist uniform — that he placed a Star of David on an inflatable pig — he did, a decade ago — and that, by mentioning Anne Frank in a list of victims of tyranny, he defames her. The last is true, because Waters believes that a Jewish conspiracy overthrew Jeremy Corbyn, fixed the result of the 2019 general election, and controls Keir Starmer. It’s a variation of the conspiracy theory that killed Anne Frank.
The protest has Israeli flags and a series of Pink Floyd-related signs: “Hey Roger, Leave us Jews Alone”; “From the Dark Side of the Moon to the Wrong Side of History”. One is more pointed: “Your Daddy Didn’t Fight the Nazis for you to Desecrate the Holocaust”. Eric Waters was killed in the battle of Anzio in 1944, when Waters was five months old, and I think his interest in fascism — his parodic fascism, which he communicates with fists and leather, and sympathy for Putin and Assad — comes from this loss. To inhabit something, to impersonate it, is to control it: Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy” for a 79-year-old rock star. Firing a fake machine gun while wearing a leather coat with double hammer insignia is plausibly theatre; naming Jews as players in a demonic conspiracy is deadly.
The crowd must navigate Waters’s passion and they do it in different ways. First, they must pass the protest, which angers them, because it is a rebuke, when they are having fun. When you go into dinner, you don’t want to talk to the food. Some pause and shout: “Free, free Palestine!”
There are reasonable people here: an army of bystanders to the latest eruption of antisemitism. It’s weekly now. Some of them want to reassure. They pause to say that the fascist uniform is satire, the flying Star of David pig is satire. Waters, they say, is Pink from The Wall. “He campaigns against demagoguery”: a hard sell from a stage in a massive arena. “Roger loves everyone!” “I think this is wrong, because it’s not Roger”. “He’s got nothing against Jews, you’re blowing it all out of proportion”. “It’s ironic”. Then they ease off, with saddened eyes. “I just like the songs,” pleads one man, and in he goes.
But there are also the unreasonable. A man stops to shout: “Racist! Apartheid state! Down with Israel! You are killing Palestinians! You hate Muslims! Mass murderers, you are mass murderers, you have turned oppressors, you have forgotten about the Holocaust! You are creating a Holocaust on the Palestinians! Are only your lives important?”
An immaculately dressed man mutters, “pathetic, scum….” on passing: is it so painful to walk past a flag held by a Jew? I see him again later, saying into a telephone, “Meet me where the Israelites were protesting”. I go in, passing a woman raging at the protest, dressed as a rainbow.
Inside, in the queue, an affable man from Newcastle tells me: “I think he’s cracked. Like lots of geniuses.” He can’t say why Waters moves him. It comes from a place without words.
The show opens with a statement about the events in Germany, projected onto a screen: “Regardless of the consequences of the attacks against me, I will continue to condemn injustice and all those who perpetrate it.” This gets a moderate cheer, which will disappoint him. They are here for the music and if some of them half or wholly believe him — I’m not sure how many Corbynites can afford the O2 — for others it is only the price of entry, nodding alone as he says Fuck the Occupation, Fuck the Roman Empire, Fuck Drones. But he doesn’t know it. “If you are one of those ‘I love Pink Floyd but I don’t like Roger’s politics’ people,” says an announcer, “you might do well to fuck off to the bar.” But they don’t.
The stage is arranged as a piano bar, for intimacy and the flow of ideas. It is another of Waters’s delusions because, the following night, when a man unfurls an Israeli flag in the arena, his opinion is not suffered in “the bar”, and he is manhandled away. Tonight, though, Waters says he wants to “exchange human feelings. All of you in the O2 are in the bar with me somehow.”
Waters speaks his distress. “I don’t know if anyone’s ever tried to cancel any of you. I’ve watched other people being cancelled. I watched Jeremy Corbyn be cancelled by the Israeli lobby. That is what happened in 2019. I know you didn’t come here to listen to this,” he moans, “and I didn’t come here to tell you.” Didn’t you? “If only I didn’t have to tell you, if only these fuckers weren’t trying to cancel me, but they are, and I’m not going to let them do it. I’m fighting back.” A man screams: “I love you!” “I love you,” Waters replies, “whoever you are”, unaware that he who loves everyone loves no one.
He attacks the Tory-turned-Labour MP Christian’s Wakeford’s criticisms of him: Wakeford, whose constituency has a large Jewish community, complained about the mention of Anne Frank, the flying Star of David pig, and the “SS” uniform. “Star of David on a giant pig, blah, blah, blah,” he says. “Guess what Christian? I didn’t. Do your research you cripple!” The crowd, listening patiently, as if watching a man they admire shout at a broken Teasmade, emits a murmur of confusion. Surely this is a banned word? “You are making shit up because you’ve been told to by your masters in the Foreign Office in Tel Aviv. Because this hate — hate, this hate! — is being organised from Israel. Alright..” And he slumps a little, “The Bar…” And he sings.
This is Not a Drill is explicit: Waters believes that the world is controlled by a cabal that includes Bush, and Obama, and Clinton and Biden (“war criminal — just getting started”), and arms companies and Israel, but not Putin, who appears briefly next to a sign that reads “Believe”. The music is better than the politics; others helped him make the music, and the politics are all his own. The music is incredible: Waters has finessed his screaming over 60 years.
We are, for our entertainment, told, in song and image, that we are dolls, robots, babies, sheep: that we are inhuman, and at the mercy of a demagogue that Waters inhabits but in no way is. “It’s theatre, darling!”
I goggle when the Fuck the Patriarchy sign blooms on the screen because Waters’s feminism is not convincing. The two women on stage are young and lovely, though the men are not. The bass guitarist and the saxophonist get long solos; the women do not. Waters squeezes himself past them, saying, “Shanay, squeeze, Amanda, squeeze”; he’s a rocker Benny Hill. The following night, he will insult Polly Samson, the wife of his former bandmate Dave Gilmour, who called him an antisemite on Twitter in February. “Imagine waking up to that every morning,” he says, and I am reminded he has been married five times. The next morning, Gilmour posts a picture of Samson, saying he is glad to wake up with her. Waters has a gift for making people sing to his tunes. He does it here.
By the end, the crowd is sated on Waters’s combination of exultation and grief. Most of them stand by Waters because they love the music of Pink Floyd. It’s good show, but not a good excuse.
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SubscribeThe more of these hits pieces I see pop up all across the more I am inclined to see this crusty old champagne socialist as correct that he is a victim of a campaign backed by the lobby. Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.
Yes, why the sudden urge to overthrow him now? The Wall is over forty years old and its theme was fascism. I believe we are living in a time where people assume that by discussing something distasteful then by default you automatically are that something, much like professors who teach nineteenth-century literature and are then branded as racist when reading out the n-word from a Twain novel.
“Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.”
When The Wall came out there was an actual wall keeping people locked into totalitarian states. Now the shrillest, most totalitarian voices come from the Waters-aligned wing of the Labour Party. The irony would be sweet if it weren’t so bitter.
Wright? Richard Wright? Where’s the disclaimer that you’re Waters’ old band mate? Full disclosure, etc. And being dead’s no excuse.
Yes I largely agree and believe his intention is to criticise Israel’s foreign policy, but floating a large inflatable pig with a star of david on it during concerts? What the hell was he thinking? He should have chosen a symbol evocative of those policies (like some army sign?) not one that’s been used to represent Jews as a race..
I guess you missed the part about antisemitism.
Instead of worrying why so many people experess anti-Semitic sentinents–and many do–it will be incumbent upon the Jews to ask the question why this phenomenon persists. As Freud said, there is no effect without a cause. What is causing this perpetual pandemic?
They’re a convenient scapegoat. I suspect most people don’t even know why they’re antisemetic.
A certain part of the middle class like to blame some group for their under achievement according to their exalted opinion of their abilities and worth to society.
They’re a convenient scapegoat. I suspect most people don’t even know why they’re antisemetic.
A certain part of the middle class like to blame some group for their under achievement according to their exalted opinion of their abilities and worth to society.
Instead of worrying why so many people experess anti-Semitic sentinents–and many do–it will be incumbent upon the Jews to ask the question why this phenomenon persists. As Freud said, there is no effect without a cause. What is causing this perpetual pandemic?
We didn’t say or do anything to discourage Waters’ weirdness because we did not know better, and we did not know him better.
I loathe it when rock artists like Bono or Waters’ friend “Have a Cigar “Roy Harper hold forth on self righteous politics, and mistake undying fan love as vindication. And Waters definitely has elements of this. But on the Wall, the character who becomes the fascist in In the Flesh part 2 is loathsome precisely because he picks on Jews and black people dismissing them as “riff raff into the room”. This is surely a character who stands in sharp contrast to everything Waters is aiming at, which is one who ends up without barriers to others; who has teared down the wall.
Yes, why the sudden urge to overthrow him now? The Wall is over forty years old and its theme was fascism. I believe we are living in a time where people assume that by discussing something distasteful then by default you automatically are that something, much like professors who teach nineteenth-century literature and are then branded as racist when reading out the n-word from a Twain novel.
“Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.”
When The Wall came out there was an actual wall keeping people locked into totalitarian states. Now the shrillest, most totalitarian voices come from the Waters-aligned wing of the Labour Party. The irony would be sweet if it weren’t so bitter.
Wright? Richard Wright? Where’s the disclaimer that you’re Waters’ old band mate? Full disclosure, etc. And being dead’s no excuse.
Yes I largely agree and believe his intention is to criticise Israel’s foreign policy, but floating a large inflatable pig with a star of david on it during concerts? What the hell was he thinking? He should have chosen a symbol evocative of those policies (like some army sign?) not one that’s been used to represent Jews as a race..
I guess you missed the part about antisemitism.
We didn’t say or do anything to discourage Waters’ weirdness because we did not know better, and we did not know him better.
I loathe it when rock artists like Bono or Waters’ friend “Have a Cigar “Roy Harper hold forth on self righteous politics, and mistake undying fan love as vindication. And Waters definitely has elements of this. But on the Wall, the character who becomes the fascist in In the Flesh part 2 is loathsome precisely because he picks on Jews and black people dismissing them as “riff raff into the room”. This is surely a character who stands in sharp contrast to everything Waters is aiming at, which is one who ends up without barriers to others; who has teared down the wall.
The more of these hits pieces I see pop up all across the more I am inclined to see this crusty old champagne socialist as correct that he is a victim of a campaign backed by the lobby. Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.
Roger Waters illustrates the truth of the Horseshoe Theory. Communism really is fascism. It’s that simple.
Nothing is that simple. With the possible exception of you, Dickie.
Where have you been “Thorax”? We’ve missed you.
It really is that simple. Just like you, Rubber.
Look. Rubber. Roger Walters is avowedly of the Corbynite left. He’s also an anti-semite, as you yourself rightly say in another comment. I’m sure you will agree on these two things:-
(i) The Corbynite left, where not avowedly communist as some of it is, shares affinities with and has sympathies for communism;
(ii) Anti-semitism is to say the least a significant marker of the presence of fascism.
I think it’s also safe to say, Rubber, that Roger Waters is merely an exemplar, and that his left-wing fascism is pervasive throughout a significant minority if not the majority of the Corbynite left.
So if your accusation is merely one of hyperbole or guilt by association, or imprecision, guilty as charged, Rubber. I just happen to think that “communism is fascism” captures the underlying essence of the matter, even if I could have put the matter more precisely, e.g. “Roger Waters typifies the fascism of the Corbynite left”.
Where have you been “Thorax”? We’ve missed you.
It really is that simple. Just like you, Rubber.
Look. Rubber. Roger Walters is avowedly of the Corbynite left. He’s also an anti-semite, as you yourself rightly say in another comment. I’m sure you will agree on these two things:-
(i) The Corbynite left, where not avowedly communist as some of it is, shares affinities with and has sympathies for communism;
(ii) Anti-semitism is to say the least a significant marker of the presence of fascism.
I think it’s also safe to say, Rubber, that Roger Waters is merely an exemplar, and that his left-wing fascism is pervasive throughout a significant minority if not the majority of the Corbynite left.
So if your accusation is merely one of hyperbole or guilt by association, or imprecision, guilty as charged, Rubber. I just happen to think that “communism is fascism” captures the underlying essence of the matter, even if I could have put the matter more precisely, e.g. “Roger Waters typifies the fascism of the Corbynite left”.
Nothing is that simple. With the possible exception of you, Dickie.
Roger Waters illustrates the truth of the Horseshoe Theory. Communism really is fascism. It’s that simple.
There are a number of heavy claims in this item about what Waters thinks, but they aren’t linked to any source material. Yes, this certainly comes off as a hit piece. UnHerd can do better.
There are a number of heavy claims in this item about what Waters thinks, but they aren’t linked to any source material. Yes, this certainly comes off as a hit piece. UnHerd can do better.
Oh great, Unherd has started publishing hit-pieces from nobodies on musicians who hold unpopular opinions. Guess it’s time to reconsider my subscription.
Thank you for expressing your opinion freely. I disagree. RW does not hold unpopular opinions he uses his platform to scream hatred based on total falsehoods. He is a sworn enemy of truth and peace. RW is screaming “fire” in crowded theatres. Jew hatred is a real thing. His tirades embolden and encourage attacks on Jews. Fact.
Separating the artist from his views does not apply here as they are one and the same thing. This article deserves its place in Unherd. It reports clearly how RW uses the platform his music has given him and the varied reactions of those who are not sickened enough by his bile spewing to adulate his performance.
It is fascinating to read the justifications the acolytes give for continuing to give his vile platform support.
You (and a few others) seem to have difficulty distinguishing attitudes to jews and zionism
Opposing the actions (not the existence) of the state of Israel and supporting the rights of Palestinians to their own homeland does not make one an anti-semite. Many do indeed seem to have difficulty distinguishing these two notions.
Opposing the actions (not the existence) of the state of Israel and supporting the rights of Palestinians to their own homeland does not make one an anti-semite. Many do indeed seem to have difficulty distinguishing these two notions.
Certainly agree with these well-stated views. Waters’ right to scream his opposition to Israel’s policies and actions towards the Palestinians is a given but calling into question that country’s right to exist — as he does — must be roundly condemned. As said, such tirades assuredly encourage attacks on Jews.
You (and a few others) seem to have difficulty distinguishing attitudes to jews and zionism
Certainly agree with these well-stated views. Waters’ right to scream his opposition to Israel’s policies and actions towards the Palestinians is a given but calling into question that country’s right to exist — as he does — must be roundly condemned. As said, such tirades assuredly encourage attacks on Jews.
See ya.
Bye, Bye.
Thank you for expressing your opinion freely. I disagree. RW does not hold unpopular opinions he uses his platform to scream hatred based on total falsehoods. He is a sworn enemy of truth and peace. RW is screaming “fire” in crowded theatres. Jew hatred is a real thing. His tirades embolden and encourage attacks on Jews. Fact.
Separating the artist from his views does not apply here as they are one and the same thing. This article deserves its place in Unherd. It reports clearly how RW uses the platform his music has given him and the varied reactions of those who are not sickened enough by his bile spewing to adulate his performance.
It is fascinating to read the justifications the acolytes give for continuing to give his vile platform support.
See ya.
Bye, Bye.
Oh great, Unherd has started publishing hit-pieces from nobodies on musicians who hold unpopular opinions. Guess it’s time to reconsider my subscription.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that protest is under attack and being labelled as an anti semite is par for the course.
I have attended Roger’s concerts for decades including This Is Not A Drill last year and I simply do not understand what this woman is saying. Of course he is opinionated, it’s who he is and his audience understands this but anti semitic because he is passionate about the plight of ordinary, powerless Palestinians!! It’s become an easy slur to lob at anyone.
No, antisemitic because he loves conspiracy theories about Jewish cabals controlling the world. 5hays pretty much the definition of antisemitism.
You may be a stopped clock, Rubber, but once a day your time comes round to get something right, and once in a blue moon you actually seize the opportunity. It is like the flower in the desert, which blooms one morning every century.
You may be a stopped clock, Rubber, but once a day your time comes round to get something right, and once in a blue moon you actually seize the opportunity. It is like the flower in the desert, which blooms one morning every century.
No, antisemitic because he loves conspiracy theories about Jewish cabals controlling the world. 5hays pretty much the definition of antisemitism.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that protest is under attack and being labelled as an anti semite is par for the course.
I have attended Roger’s concerts for decades including This Is Not A Drill last year and I simply do not understand what this woman is saying. Of course he is opinionated, it’s who he is and his audience understands this but anti semitic because he is passionate about the plight of ordinary, powerless Palestinians!! It’s become an easy slur to lob at anyone.
You know our days are numbered when even mega-rich rock stars brandish bogus victim credentials.
I haven’t listened to Roger’s music that he’s made since he left Floyd (and tried to prevent those he’d left behind from continuing). It may well be that I’ve missed a treat, but there’s lots of great music that I’m still discovering, so I’ll probably survive.
While I don’t mind what a performer’s views are, I can’t help thinking it better to let the songs do the talking and save the sloganeering for when you’re having a drink with indulgent friends.
Whilst being entitled to their views, the idea that musicians are any more politically savvy than anyone else is ridiculous. The MSM pander to their views because they’re famous, but anyone who’d be influenced by them is a halfwit.
The most egregious example is, of course, Bono, friend of popes and invited to the WEF. FFS
And Kanye West.
And Kanye West.
Whilst being entitled to their views, the idea that musicians are any more politically savvy than anyone else is ridiculous. The MSM pander to their views because they’re famous, but anyone who’d be influenced by them is a halfwit.
The most egregious example is, of course, Bono, friend of popes and invited to the WEF. FFS
I haven’t listened to Roger’s music that he’s made since he left Floyd (and tried to prevent those he’d left behind from continuing). It may well be that I’ve missed a treat, but there’s lots of great music that I’m still discovering, so I’ll probably survive.
While I don’t mind what a performer’s views are, I can’t help thinking it better to let the songs do the talking and save the sloganeering for when you’re having a drink with indulgent friends.
You know our days are numbered when even mega-rich rock stars brandish bogus victim credentials.
“Few fans willing to discuss his antisemitism”.
I have few fans willing to discuss my participation in the Rwanda genocide.
I guess this article is a consequence of commitment to free speech, but I find it hard to accept that @TanyaGold1 is a useful contributor.
“Few fans willing to discuss his antisemitism”.
I have few fans willing to discuss my participation in the Rwanda genocide.
I guess this article is a consequence of commitment to free speech, but I find it hard to accept that @TanyaGold1 is a useful contributor.
Cancellation (targeted de-platforming, ostracization, and boycotting, often using threats and violence, for ‘unorthodox’ or ‘controversial’ beliefs) – whether they’re left wing or right wing – is real, and it is a problem. But ranting like a paranoid schizophrenic about how you’re being ‘cancelled’ while performing at the O2 arena, one of Britain’s largest concert venues, and have a steady income from your millions of fans and listeners worldwide takes the mick a bit.
People opposing your beliefs does not inherently amount to cancellation, and since Israel is an extremely controversial topic, and Waters makes a conscious effort to go about the matter in a very brash way, there will of course be opposition – he’s a shock jock after all. Whether this opposition has a point or not is another matter, but this does not amount to a worldwide conspiracy to unperson him.
Perhaps we should have seen it coming that the ultra-successful would eventually co-opt the term to make it look like there’s a conspiracy against them when confronted with any opposition.
Cancellation (targeted de-platforming, ostracization, and boycotting, often using threats and violence, for ‘unorthodox’ or ‘controversial’ beliefs) – whether they’re left wing or right wing – is real, and it is a problem. But ranting like a paranoid schizophrenic about how you’re being ‘cancelled’ while performing at the O2 arena, one of Britain’s largest concert venues, and have a steady income from your millions of fans and listeners worldwide takes the mick a bit.
People opposing your beliefs does not inherently amount to cancellation, and since Israel is an extremely controversial topic, and Waters makes a conscious effort to go about the matter in a very brash way, there will of course be opposition – he’s a shock jock after all. Whether this opposition has a point or not is another matter, but this does not amount to a worldwide conspiracy to unperson him.
Perhaps we should have seen it coming that the ultra-successful would eventually co-opt the term to make it look like there’s a conspiracy against them when confronted with any opposition.
“I’m not sure how many Corbynites can afford the O2”
Really? Tanya has a tendency to be a bit snide.
A bit?
A bit?
“I’m not sure how many Corbynites can afford the O2”
Really? Tanya has a tendency to be a bit snide.
Everything is anti-Semite if you question anything! Trying call him a conspiracist, racist, this only happens when either the journalist is a young inexperienced uni grad, or when there is truth and the establishment need to try and push people down. I was at this show and I can tell you most of this article is utter nonsense! This guy is questioning strong and powerful governments, trying to better the lives of those who cannot speak! So easy to put slur on his character, but the real racist is the journalist who completely ignores Palestinian plight to be free and free humanly.
Everything is anti-Semite if you question anything! Trying call him a conspiracist, racist, this only happens when either the journalist is a young inexperienced uni grad, or when there is truth and the establishment need to try and push people down. I was at this show and I can tell you most of this article is utter nonsense! This guy is questioning strong and powerful governments, trying to better the lives of those who cannot speak! So easy to put slur on his character, but the real racist is the journalist who completely ignores Palestinian plight to be free and free humanly.
Something always worth remembering about Roger Waters and his followers. When “Rare protests erupt[ed] against Hamas’ 12-year rule over Gaza,” the theme of the protests was “I want to live with dignity.”
That was March 19th, 2019.
Roger Waters and Jeremy Corbyn maintained a stoic silence that day, not so much as mentioning the Palestinians again until after Gaza’s rulers had brutalized the peaceful protesters back into submission.
Something always worth remembering about Roger Waters and his followers. When “Rare protests erupt[ed] against Hamas’ 12-year rule over Gaza,” the theme of the protests was “I want to live with dignity.”
That was March 19th, 2019.
Roger Waters and Jeremy Corbyn maintained a stoic silence that day, not so much as mentioning the Palestinians again until after Gaza’s rulers had brutalized the peaceful protesters back into submission.
The insane defenestration of Roger Waters is a good example of the Right using the tactics of the Woke to cancel a dissenter.
Roger Waters is a socialist who supports the Palestinians, BDS movement, and Jeremy Corbyn. He is against fascism and all other forms of tyranny, the policies of the current Israeli government and most importantly the war in Ukraine. This does not make him an antisemite but the people who are against the things he is for must call him one to silence him. It is so much easier to just cancel someone than engage with their ideas and allow debate. It is easier to convince yourself that he mustn’t be allowed to express his ideas because people might start agreeing with him. He is a famous rock star, and he might influence people. He must be stopped.
So, use guilt by association and ridiculous distortions of his ideas, gin up hysterical outrage and every time he says Israel substitute Jew to turn him into a villain. Then you don’t have to talk about the occupation of the West Bank, the war in Ukraine and the devastation that neo-liberalism has wrought.
There is no difference between what supporters of Israel are doing to Roger Waters and what trans-activist have done to JK Rowling.
Ideas, Woke or otherwise, aren’t the problem, the stifling of debate and suppression of dissent is.
There’s a contradiction there in your description of Waters’ views: history has shown that being a socialist is supporting tyranny. State control of commerce/finance/industry, which is what socialism is, necessarily involves tyranny. One can be deluded, call oneself a “socialist” and fancy that one is opposed to all forms of tyranny, but that is a delusion. Perhaps Waters suffers from this delusion, perhaps not, but objectively, if he’s a socialist, he supports tyranny.
He definitely suffers from this delusion
He definitely suffers from this delusion
There’s a contradiction there in your description of Waters’ views: history has shown that being a socialist is supporting tyranny. State control of commerce/finance/industry, which is what socialism is, necessarily involves tyranny. One can be deluded, call oneself a “socialist” and fancy that one is opposed to all forms of tyranny, but that is a delusion. Perhaps Waters suffers from this delusion, perhaps not, but objectively, if he’s a socialist, he supports tyranny.
The insane defenestration of Roger Waters is a good example of the Right using the tactics of the Woke to cancel a dissenter.
Roger Waters is a socialist who supports the Palestinians, BDS movement, and Jeremy Corbyn. He is against fascism and all other forms of tyranny, the policies of the current Israeli government and most importantly the war in Ukraine. This does not make him an antisemite but the people who are against the things he is for must call him one to silence him. It is so much easier to just cancel someone than engage with their ideas and allow debate. It is easier to convince yourself that he mustn’t be allowed to express his ideas because people might start agreeing with him. He is a famous rock star, and he might influence people. He must be stopped.
So, use guilt by association and ridiculous distortions of his ideas, gin up hysterical outrage and every time he says Israel substitute Jew to turn him into a villain. Then you don’t have to talk about the occupation of the West Bank, the war in Ukraine and the devastation that neo-liberalism has wrought.
There is no difference between what supporters of Israel are doing to Roger Waters and what trans-activist have done to JK Rowling.
Ideas, Woke or otherwise, aren’t the problem, the stifling of debate and suppression of dissent is.
I saw Waters’ Radio KAOS tour back in ‘80 something. See, I was really there .
And he went into an onstage political diatribe of some sort back then as well. Such behavior has always been his weakness.
We do well to remember this is the man who spit on a heckler during a Montreal show; which was the genesis of The Wall. His story, not mine. The man comes as advertised: great artist; and surely a bit of a moron.
I saw Waters’ Radio KAOS tour back in ‘80 something. See, I was really there .
And he went into an onstage political diatribe of some sort back then as well. Such behavior has always been his weakness.
We do well to remember this is the man who spit on a heckler during a Montreal show; which was the genesis of The Wall. His story, not mine. The man comes as advertised: great artist; and surely a bit of a moron.
Roger Waters didn’t like his own band, despite it being one of the greatest of the 20th century, and it’s members being, by most accounts, thoroughly decent people.
Roger Waters didn’t like his own band, despite it being one of the greatest of the 20th century, and it’s members being, by most accounts, thoroughly decent people.
The increasing insanity of Zionist propaganda is, hopefully, a harbinger of its demise.
The increasing insanity of Zionist propaganda is, hopefully, a harbinger of its demise.
“To inhabit something, to impersonate it, is to control it.”
Great definition of men cosplaying womanhood.
Brilliant observation.
Brilliant observation.
“To inhabit something, to impersonate it, is to control it.”
Great definition of men cosplaying womanhood.
“Waters believes that a Jewish conspiracy overthrew Jeremy Corbyn, fixed the result of the 2019 general election, and controls Keir Starmer”
Can the writer at least provide the evidence or source of the evidence for such a sweeping generalised statement?
“Waters believes that a Jewish conspiracy overthrew Jeremy Corbyn, fixed the result of the 2019 general election, and controls Keir Starmer”
Can the writer at least provide the evidence or source of the evidence for such a sweeping generalised statement?
Lolz was this comment thread curated by the BDS, PLO, or both. Roger Waters is a very talented multimillionaire t**t who unfortunately indulges in 19th Century Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy thinking. As for Palestinians, they did not exist as the modern construct “Palestinians” in ‘48 when the war their leaders continue to perpetuate was first lost; and their biggest problem is not the only functional democracy in that region and the repeated invitations to become part of it or create their own, but continuing to choose to be the puppets of Iranian and Arab instigators whose stated primary goal is genocide of all the Jews so they can take all that’s been built.
Lolz was this comment thread curated by the BDS, PLO, or both. Roger Waters is a very talented multimillionaire t**t who unfortunately indulges in 19th Century Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy thinking. As for Palestinians, they did not exist as the modern construct “Palestinians” in ‘48 when the war their leaders continue to perpetuate was first lost; and their biggest problem is not the only functional democracy in that region and the repeated invitations to become part of it or create their own, but continuing to choose to be the puppets of Iranian and Arab instigators whose stated primary goal is genocide of all the Jews so they can take all that’s been built.
I’ve long suspected his anti-semitism has something to do with his hatred of David Gilmour. It has become increasingly intense since Gilmour married Polly Samson.
As for the plodding and over-portentous music well, OK, if you like that sort of thing. But Donald Fagen he ain’t.
I’ve long suspected his anti-semitism has something to do with his hatred of David Gilmour. It has become increasingly intense since Gilmour married Polly Samson.
As for the plodding and over-portentous music well, OK, if you like that sort of thing. But Donald Fagen he ain’t.
A scattershot disparagement by Gold that shows Waters in a prevailingly cloudy-to-dim overall light. I admit I’m inclined to extend more latitude to an musician whose work I admire–as I do Waters and Pink Floyd–but I don’t think this ranting while claiming cancellation is a good act. Suffering some professional consequences for running your mouth too freely is not cancellation.
The outlook expressed in the lyrics of Roger Waters has always had brooding, even dystopian overtones. But he can’t expect much charity from his targets and detractors when he takes such denunciatory, extreme stances on Israel, etc. He’s doing ok for a 79-year-old rock act, but I think he’d be doing better for himself and the world if he kept more of his beliefs and feelings in musical form instead of turning shows partly into public rants about how he’s being silenced. Then again, that kind of old man versus the wicked world ranting–not totally distinct in tone from his younger act–may be gaining him a whole new audience, even as others distance themselves from the dark spectacle.
A scattershot disparagement by Gold that shows Waters in a prevailingly cloudy-to-dim overall light. I admit I’m inclined to extend more latitude to an musician whose work I admire–as I do Waters and Pink Floyd–but I don’t think this ranting while claiming cancellation is a good act. Suffering some professional consequences for running your mouth too freely is not cancellation.
The outlook expressed in the lyrics of Roger Waters has always had brooding, even dystopian overtones. But he can’t expect much charity from his targets and detractors when he takes such denunciatory, extreme stances on Israel, etc. He’s doing ok for a 79-year-old rock act, but I think he’d be doing better for himself and the world if he kept more of his beliefs and feelings in musical form instead of turning shows partly into public rants about how he’s being silenced. Then again, that kind of old man versus the wicked world ranting–not totally distinct in tone from his younger act–may be gaining him a whole new audience, even as others distance themselves from the dark spectacle.
“These cries have snowballed: the US government and Keir Starmer have pointed out Waters’s antisemitism.”
Well snowflakes at times can build up to snowballs!
“These cries have snowballed: the US government and Keir Starmer have pointed out Waters’s antisemitism.”
Well snowflakes at times can build up to snowballs!
Waters sounds like an old crank, a Rob Reiner spewing Meatheadisms on Twitter. But this article is nearly incoherent. What on Earth is meant by “Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy” for a 79-year-old rock star.” Is “Daddy” supposed to be a verb? The entire article reads like stream of consciousness with a dash of schizophrenia and Adderall.
I think she’s claiming that Waters’s “parodic fascism” is to him as Plath’s poem “Daddy” is to its author. Personally, I was more put off by Tanya Gold referring to her subject as “Rogers” twice in the first paragraph. :¬D
Re Tanya Gold – you can take the ‘journalist’ out of the Guardian but you can’t take the Guardian out of the ‘journalist’. Unherd can surely do better than this.
I think she’s claiming that Waters’s “parodic fascism” is to him as Plath’s poem “Daddy” is to its author. Personally, I was more put off by Tanya Gold referring to her subject as “Rogers” twice in the first paragraph. :¬D
Re Tanya Gold – you can take the ‘journalist’ out of the Guardian but you can’t take the Guardian out of the ‘journalist’. Unherd can surely do better than this.
Waters sounds like an old crank, a Rob Reiner spewing Meatheadisms on Twitter. But this article is nearly incoherent. What on Earth is meant by “Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy” for a 79-year-old rock star.” Is “Daddy” supposed to be a verb? The entire article reads like stream of consciousness with a dash of schizophrenia and Adderall.
Did not the author write a piece defending Woody Allen a while ago?
Poor Woody Allen has been attacked by anti Semites for years now
Poor Woody Allen has been attacked by anti Semites for years now
Did not the author write a piece defending Woody Allen a while ago?
As his psychoanalyst, you shouldn’t be disclosing this confidential stuff in an open journal, Tanya.
As his psychoanalyst, you shouldn’t be disclosing this confidential stuff in an open journal, Tanya.
You know, the first cancel culture heresy-level whisper campaign I ever intuited was by the Israeli lobby, 20 years ago. You weren’t allowed to criticize anything about Israel’s policies for fear of being morally responsible for the Holocaust. First time I read the slur of “self-hating Jew.” I heard plenty of thinly veiled racism at the time, without the gasping of sacrilege. But God forbid you suggest that “hurt people, hurt people,” that the Palestinians didn’t have anything to do with the Holocaust, that Germany should have given Bavaria to the Israel state, and that the Allies handing over the 1900-year-old lands of Palestinians to all Jews as penance for German atrocities was the grossest act of colonialist presumption.
As w/ critiques of contemporary anti-racism, I read the work of Black scholars as a check on my biases, as I’ve read the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews who likewise are concerned about Zionist policies & the power of The Lobby. To treat any group as sacrosanct is to dehumanize them by another name. I refuse to do it, and thank God I stand w/ the many Jewish authors & activists who feel the same.
Who is this “You” that wasn’t allowed to criticise anything about Israel’s policies? Criticism of Israel, Zionism and Jewish influence in general has been going for decades regardless of accusations about Holocaust responsibility. Criticism of Palestinians though – now that looks like a real taboo area (for the Left in particular). Are they sacrosanct or do they just have ordinary run-of-the-mill victim status? Incidentally, I note that the “dehumanise” charge is often made by opponents of affirmative action with regard to blacks.
I gather from your tone that you are so well informed that we must not dare contradict you – but anyway: those black scholars you read and “the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews”– could you be taking on board their biases?
Black scholars have no biases . And surely it’s racist to suggest otherwise .
There are many decent and upstanding black scholars, whom it is saddening to see traduced by the open and explicit racism of so-called “Black scholars”.
There are many decent and upstanding black scholars, whom it is saddening to see traduced by the open and explicit racism of so-called “Black scholars”.
He also capitalises “black”, so he’s obviously a woke racist. Thanks for dealing with this.
Black scholars have no biases . And surely it’s racist to suggest otherwise .
He also capitalises “black”, so he’s obviously a woke racist. Thanks for dealing with this.
Who is this “You” that wasn’t allowed to criticise anything about Israel’s policies? Criticism of Israel, Zionism and Jewish influence in general has been going for decades regardless of accusations about Holocaust responsibility. Criticism of Palestinians though – now that looks like a real taboo area (for the Left in particular). Are they sacrosanct or do they just have ordinary run-of-the-mill victim status? Incidentally, I note that the “dehumanise” charge is often made by opponents of affirmative action with regard to blacks.
I gather from your tone that you are so well informed that we must not dare contradict you – but anyway: those black scholars you read and “the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews”– could you be taking on board their biases?
You know, the first cancel culture heresy-level whisper campaign I ever intuited was by the Israeli lobby, 20 years ago. You weren’t allowed to criticize anything about Israel’s policies for fear of being morally responsible for the Holocaust. First time I read the slur of “self-hating Jew.” I heard plenty of thinly veiled racism at the time, without the gasping of sacrilege. But God forbid you suggest that “hurt people, hurt people,” that the Palestinians didn’t have anything to do with the Holocaust, that Germany should have given Bavaria to the Israel state, and that the Allies handing over the 1900-year-old lands of Palestinians to all Jews as penance for German atrocities was the grossest act of colonialist presumption.
As w/ critiques of contemporary anti-racism, I read the work of Black scholars as a check on my biases, as I’ve read the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews who likewise are concerned about Zionist policies & the power of The Lobby. To treat any group as sacrosanct is to dehumanize them by another name. I refuse to do it, and thank God I stand w/ the many Jewish authors & activists who feel the same.
““If you are one of those ‘I love Pink Floyd but I don’t like Roger’s politics’ people,” says an announcer, “you might do well to f**k off to the bar.” But they don’t.”
Probably just as well: there’d be few people left…
““If you are one of those ‘I love Pink Floyd but I don’t like Roger’s politics’ people,” says an announcer, “you might do well to f**k off to the bar.” But they don’t.”
Probably just as well: there’d be few people left…
I blame Syd Barrett…
I blame Syd Barrett…
Thank you Tanya, for this very good, balanced piece. Clearly Waters has a lot of loyal devotees who won’t hear a word said against him, but that is no justification for his repulsive views.
Thank you Tanya, for this very good, balanced piece. Clearly Waters has a lot of loyal devotees who won’t hear a word said against him, but that is no justification for his repulsive views.
Oh
Oh
Self-inflated commenters responding to this piece as if they were the subject of the piece and not Waters … triggered when someone mentions a whiff of antisemitism, convinced it couldn’t *possibly* apply to them.
Self-inflated commenters responding to this piece as if they were the subject of the piece and not Waters … triggered when someone mentions a whiff of antisemitism, convinced it couldn’t *possibly* apply to them.
So ya
Thought ya
Might like to
Go to the show.
To feel that warm thrill of confusion,
That space cadet glow.
I’ve got some bad news for you sunshine,
Pink isn’t well, he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We’re gonna find out where you fans* really stand.
Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
There’s one in the spotlight, he don’t look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one’s a c**n!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There’s one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I’d have all of you shot!
So ya
Thought ya
Might like to
Go to the show.
To feel that warm thrill of confusion,
That space cadet glow.
I’ve got some bad news for you sunshine,
Pink isn’t well, he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We’re gonna find out where you fans* really stand.
Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
There’s one in the spotlight, he don’t look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one’s a c**n!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There’s one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I’d have all of you shot!
I met Waters via his charming mother in law at the time Lady Jean Christie, some years ago: seemed alright if a tad dull…
I met Waters via his charming mother in law at the time Lady Jean Christie, some years ago: seemed alright if a tad dull…
Tanya Gold told lies about Corbyn and now she is telling lies about Waters.
Communism is fascism. Get over it.
Communism is fascism. Get over it.
Tanya Gold told lies about Corbyn and now she is telling lies about Waters.
Nobody cared what Roger Waters said until he questioned the official Russia – Ukraine narrative. Odd that.
Nobody cared what Roger Waters said until he questioned the official Russia – Ukraine narrative. Odd that.
You’ve lost the room, Tanya. It is no longer about bogus claims of anti-Semitism; the EHRC found all of two specific examples in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party, and both of those are subject to judicial review. It is now about mostly bogus threats to free speech; nothing gets you a platform like being deplatformed. So Professor Arif Ahmed’s non-subscription to the IHRA Definition is seen as a positive advantage in the new Free Speech Tsar. Similarly, even The Times and the Daily Telegraph have given rave reviews to Roger Waters. The world moves on. Tanya Gold is a creature out of time.
You have the same name as a gentleman who served a prison sentence for malicious communication and perverting the course of justice. Would you care to comment?
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19262308.blogger-jailed-repeated-online-harassment/
You have the same name as a gentleman who served a prison sentence for malicious communication and perverting the course of justice. Would you care to comment?
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19262308.blogger-jailed-repeated-online-harassment/
You’ve lost the room, Tanya. It is no longer about bogus claims of anti-Semitism; the EHRC found all of two specific examples in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party, and both of those are subject to judicial review. It is now about mostly bogus threats to free speech; nothing gets you a platform like being deplatformed. So Professor Arif Ahmed’s non-subscription to the IHRA Definition is seen as a positive advantage in the new Free Speech Tsar. Similarly, even The Times and the Daily Telegraph have given rave reviews to Roger Waters. The world moves on. Tanya Gold is a creature out of time.
Enough anti semites on the comments below. Corbynites too probably.
Enough anti semites on the comments below. Corbynites too probably.
People who make waves inevitably attract attention. However Roger has got it wrong, I say – the state of jewish protectionism has got well out of hand and merits the resistance given !
People who make waves inevitably attract attention. However Roger has got it wrong, I say – the state of jewish protectionism has got well out of hand and merits the resistance given !