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How the Ukraine war became a spectator sport Conflict and social media are now inextricably intertwined

Driving conflict. (Credit: Diego Fedele/Getty)

Driving conflict. (Credit: Diego Fedele/Getty)


May 15, 2023   7 mins

In The Convergence of the Twain, Thomas Hardy’s 1912 poem on the loss of the Titanic, the great liner and the iceberg are presented as predestined to meet in their fatal embrace: “Alien they seemed to be/ No mortal eye could see/The intimate welding of their later history/ Or sign that they were bent/By paths coincident/On being anon twin halves of one august event.” Yet each, from their construction in a Belfast shipyard and glacial formation thousands of years ago, were destined to meet in this fateful moment, technology and cold, pitiless nature brought together in consummation of a greater whole.

A similar case can surely be made for war and social media. In an essay written before the Ukraine war, I argued that the conjunction of social media with high quality drone footage from the wars in Syria and Karabakh had created a fusion of online enthusiasts with technology, so that “Drone, camera and social media sharer thus become a single, integrated weapon system, a hybrid semi-autonomous proxy as useful and as cheap to operate as the expendable proxies fighting on the ground”. The Syrian war, like the Spanish Civil War before World War Two, can be considered an armed rehearsal for the Ukraine war, a rough draft of processes and technologies that would later reach their full, terrible potential. And nowhere is this more apparent than in the conjunction of brutal drone footage with social media, and of mass deaths with vigorous online fandoms.

With over 100,000 battlefield dead on each side so far, the Ukraine war is already the bloodiest war in Europe since World War Two. But by one grim milestone, the conflict surely surpasses any war in history: it must hold the record for the greatest number of individual human deaths captured on camera. Through the ubiquity on both sides of cheap consumer drones, used for battlefield reconnaissance and target acquisition, the trenches of eastern Ukraine are surveilled to a hitherto unimaginable extent. And by rigging the drones to drop grenades with pinpoint accuracy — a tactic initially pioneered by Isis in the conflicts in Syria and Iraq — both sides can hunt down, chase and kill individual soldiers with the ease of a video game, sharing the HD video footage for their rival supporters.

The effects on the soldiers themselves are easy to imagine. The knowledge that your every move is being watched by an inescapable whining sky robot waiting to kill you is pure horror. But it is the effect on those sharing the footage that is surely most remarkable. The nature of the clips is unlike anything ever seen from any previous war: hovering a short distance above the victim, the drone’s footage is unbearably intimate: in his final seconds of life, the target looks up at the camera — at you, straight into your eyes. You look down at him: you are the drone. It creates the illusion you have been granted the power of life and death, skimming over the muddy trenches of eastern Ukraine like the angel of death. There is something obscene and terrible in being granted access to these final, miserable moments of human life, a nagging sense that this is something that ought not be seen, let alone enjoyed.

And yet to follow the Ukraine war on a platform like Twitter means your feed is interspersed with the lovingly zoomed-in deaths, shared with crass jokes by Western enthusiasts, of human beings, perhaps unwilling conscripts. Niche online communities like Reddit’s DronedOrc share videos with names such as “Drone drops grenades on orc without pants”, or, “Grenade dropped on orc makes its helmet pop”, for the enjoyment of its subscribers. Scrolling Twitter brings up posts such as “18+ The drone operator drove the orc to suicide,” in which a lone Russian soldier, cornered by a drone, shoots himself. “Last seconds of an orc’s life after catching a grenade from the drone in his rat hole,” gloats another. To fully erode the distinction between themselves and the drone, distant internet consumers of the Ukraine war can even donate 3D-printed fins for their grenades via Twitter, inscribed with their own message, like “Hope this hurts XO.”

Brutal as they are, these videos tell you little about the Ukraine war: one contextless video of a human dying in an anonymous ditch is much the same as another, for all it tells you about the conflict’s progress or outcome. The only difference is for online connoisseurs of individual deaths — praying, pleading, helpless, resigned, crawling away in a trail of blood. This online subculture, a fringe subsection of those following the war, serves no analytical function whatsoever. Instead, it more closely resembles crowds in Roman arenas gawping at the deaths of the condemned: they too, after all, were viewed as criminals, beyond the bounds of human sympathy. The propaganda value of these videos, for the Ukrainian cause, is surely doubtful. For the avoidance of doubt — or rather, to avoid being accused of pro-Russian sympathies by enthusiasts of this strange and awful new content — I want Ukraine to win the war. I understand that to do that, the Ukrainians will have to kill and keep killing thousands of Russian soldiers: that’s what war is. But I don’t particularly need or want to see each individual death. The fact that many apparently do tells you little about Ukraine, but much about human nature and the still-dimly understood nature of social media.

Perhaps, then, conflict and the creation and destruction of enemies is what social media is actually for. In its first heady days at the beginning of the century, the internet’s Arab Spring, the prevailing narrative was that social media was born to bring people together, technology and the human need for connection fusing to progress humanity’s upward arc. Yet anyone who uses social media observes the precise opposite: there is a natural tendency for the medium to produce enemies, often from the slenderest of causes. The most popular content on Twitter by far is that which focuses on the destruction and humiliation of political foes: careers are built from it, fortunes made. There is a curious lacuna in the anthropology of the internet on this easily observable process, one anyone who uses the internet swims in every day without a second thought. The uproar that Musk’s ownership of Twitter has caused among liberals, though never explicitly articulated, is the product of precisely this dynamic. If social media were not primarily a weapon, they would not fear that it is now in the wrong hands, ready to be turned against those accustomed to wielding it.

If war and social media are now inextricably intertwined, fused by the gut satisfaction of watching and sharing clips of your enemies being destroyed, then the peculiarities of America’s own internal conflict are explained. Both sides of the cold civil war hate each other with gut passion, yet open conflict is — except for periods of heightened tension like elections or the BLM protests — unusually rare. In Syria a few years ago, I met an American volunteer who had been driven to the country’s distant battlefield, on the side of the Kurdish YPG, through engagement with America’s own 2016 political ferment. After the Isis war was over, he went back home, taking part in Seattle’s CHAZ experiment, before being jailed for making a social media “call to arms” against Republicans. For him, perhaps the virtual and the real, Syria and America had become too uncomfortably merged: like the Capitol protestors on the other side, who confused Trump’s media-wrought simulacrum of a coup with objective reality, by making the implicit explicit, he moved too soon.

Instead, each side sublimates its hatred for the other in random acts of violence, carried out by unstable proxies, to be pored over, shared and discussed on social media. American conservatives can watch and share footage of IRL proxies such as Kyle Rittenhouse kill and wound their political enemies, and turn him into a hero of their cause, rewarded, as is the nature of American conservatism, with all manner of lucrative sponsorship deals. Had the fatal tussle’s outcome been different, American liberals would no doubt have rewarded their own virtual paladins. In doing so, their desire to take up arms themselves abates: the virtual simulacrum relieves the urge.

Even the most random of America’s deaths by shooting, vastly outpacing Syria’s current death toll, are immediately and obsessively analysed for clues as to which, if any side of America’s civil conflict the killer can be attributed — is he a Hispanic White Nationalist, perhaps, or a radicalised transsexual? The deaths that do not feed this war of interpretation are meaningless, and quickly ignored: it is only the online narratives into which they can be forced that give the killings purpose. Twitter is alive, pulsing with palpable energy, in the immediate aftermath of each atrocity, as each side waits and hopes the blame can be conclusively pinned on their online foes. Like Baudrillard’s Gulf War, America’s civil war is both real and not, a conflict in which, as Baudrillard argued, “the virtual has overtaken the actual” and where “we are already all strategic hostages”, trapped in an internet battlefield, “the screen on which we are virtually bombarded every day”.

Published just before the Ukraine War began, Radical War by the academics Matthew Ford and Andrew Hoskins warned that the fusion of smartphone technology and modern warfare meant that “war is principally about managing the attention of populations and different audiences” in a “media spectacle” where “it is not possible to locate these emergent forms of warfare within existing models of representation and ways of seeing the world”. The smartphone and the drone camera have changed war entirely, “replacing the rifle as the weapon of choice for those engaged in mass participation in war” and “collapsing the boundary between those who observe war and those who engage in it”.

But the Ukraine war has collapsed the boundaries further still: you too can now donate to kill a Russian soldier, and watch and share his death, all from the smartphone nestled in your hand. Similarly, it is impossible to use the internet in 2023 without being, in some way, a participant in America’s cold civil war: just as Americans regroup themselves into opposing lines, waiting for the great culmination which may never come, the still largely virtual conflict’s contours shape almost every thought expressed online. It is a constant, almost impossible task to force yourself not to care about the latest skirmish in America’s culture war: the path of least resistance, across the world, is simply to embrace the dying hegemon’s last compelling cultural product.

Trapped in the internet, we are all of us participants, willing or not, in a great, globe-spanning war without end. As it has with every new technology, war has brought out the latent power of the internet and social media, hardened them and fashioned them into weapons of terrible power, whose true potential we are only beginning to understand. Only now are they coming together, like the Titanic and the iceberg, in their fatal, predestined embrace.


Aris Roussinos is an UnHerd columnist and a former war reporter.

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Sue Ward
Sue Ward
1 year ago

And if you’re not cheering for the right “team” you’re abused as a troll or a bot.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Sue Ward

Ultimately there is only one war between good and evil. The trouble is that most believe they are on the good side.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Indeed – always be wary of anyone with a belief of any sort, whether secular, political or religious.

Mike MacCormack
Mike MacCormack
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Well said. Belief starts where understanding stops. End of.

Bruni Schling
Bruni Schling
1 year ago

A bit too facile. Belief and understanding are not mutually exclusive. They can, in fact. support each other. Example: my belief that most people are good (if given the opportunity) makes try to understand the situations when and why they are not good.

Bruni Schling
Bruni Schling
1 year ago

A bit too facile. Belief and understanding are not mutually exclusive. They can, in fact. support each other. Example: my belief that most people are good (if given the opportunity) makes try to understand the situations when and why they are not good.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Indeed. Look how dangerous democracy has been. Time to ban it!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

If you know something for a fact you don’t need to believe.

Mike MacCormack
Mike MacCormack
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Well said. Belief starts where understanding stops. End of.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Indeed. Look how dangerous democracy has been. Time to ban it!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

If you know something for a fact you don’t need to believe.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Indeed – always be wary of anyone with a belief of any sort, whether secular, political or religious.

new aether
new aether
1 year ago
Reply to  Sue Ward

only problem is that there is one country that was attacked in 2014 and one that is attacking.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Sue Ward

Ultimately there is only one war between good and evil. The trouble is that most believe they are on the good side.

new aether
new aether
1 year ago
Reply to  Sue Ward

only problem is that there is one country that was attacked in 2014 and one that is attacking.

Sue Ward
Sue Ward
1 year ago

And if you’re not cheering for the right “team” you’re abused as a troll or a bot.

RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago

Some days it really feels like human evolution has slipped into reverse gear.

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  RM Parker

Perhaps the problem is that compassion, if it comes into play at all, and it often doesn’t, can only operate at a close-up and personal level. We have always been like this.

sal b dyer
sal b dyer
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Maybe the problem is that with the feminisation of the public space, the expectation is that we all have to be compassionate everywhere, all the time. Healthy outlets for aggression are few and far between. A good friend, an Oncologist is one of the most kind and compassionate doctors I know, calmly spending hours discussing treatments, side effects and realistic prognoses with patients and their families, so that they understand the gravity of their illnesses and make their own decisions.Then he goes home and plays “Destroy all humans” video game.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  sal b dyer

The dominatrix has her hands full for that reason.

Tudor Reece
Tudor Reece
1 year ago
Reply to  sal b dyer

No. No this sounds like the regressive attempts to revive and justify testosterone-fuelled violence as healthy. Women are also prone to aggressive behaviour.
Our aggressive instincts are based in survival, not war. We should ALWAYS be compassionate. Jeezus, compassion isn’t a “feminine” thing. It’s a human thing. But the powerlessness and helplessness society inflicts upon the vast majority of us means we basically live like emotionally caged animals.
We’re frustrated and are denied some of our most basic free agency by oppressive, increasingly remote elites and legal systems which attempt to regulate our very thoughts.
That’s why we behave aggressively. Not because of any freaking “feminisation” XD

new aether
new aether
1 year ago
Reply to  Tudor Reece

god bless america and tudor reece

new aether
new aether
1 year ago
Reply to  Tudor Reece

god bless america and tudor reece

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  sal b dyer

The dominatrix has her hands full for that reason.

Tudor Reece
Tudor Reece
1 year ago
Reply to  sal b dyer

No. No this sounds like the regressive attempts to revive and justify testosterone-fuelled violence as healthy. Women are also prone to aggressive behaviour.
Our aggressive instincts are based in survival, not war. We should ALWAYS be compassionate. Jeezus, compassion isn’t a “feminine” thing. It’s a human thing. But the powerlessness and helplessness society inflicts upon the vast majority of us means we basically live like emotionally caged animals.
We’re frustrated and are denied some of our most basic free agency by oppressive, increasingly remote elites and legal systems which attempt to regulate our very thoughts.
That’s why we behave aggressively. Not because of any freaking “feminisation” XD

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

On the contrary it seems many people have compassion for the masses they don’t know rather than an individual they do know. “Charity begins at home” often doesn’t. Add to that who among us find it easier to be compassionate towards others but not ourselves.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Compassion requires empathy which we have in short supply. We worship various ideologies, each opposed to some “othering”. We all share a common humanity that gets lost in the debris.

Bernard Hill
Bernard Hill
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Yes. Once it loses local horizon, compassion becomes a menace. Now, as the female viewpoint, within which compassion is a bastion, has come to play an outsize role in the public sector, we have mercy before justice on virtually all issues, hence the chaos.

Last edited 1 year ago by Bernard Hill
sal b dyer
sal b dyer
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Maybe the problem is that with the feminisation of the public space, the expectation is that we all have to be compassionate everywhere, all the time. Healthy outlets for aggression are few and far between. A good friend, an Oncologist is one of the most kind and compassionate doctors I know, calmly spending hours discussing treatments, side effects and realistic prognoses with patients and their families, so that they understand the gravity of their illnesses and make their own decisions.Then he goes home and plays “Destroy all humans” video game.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

On the contrary it seems many people have compassion for the masses they don’t know rather than an individual they do know. “Charity begins at home” often doesn’t. Add to that who among us find it easier to be compassionate towards others but not ourselves.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Compassion requires empathy which we have in short supply. We worship various ideologies, each opposed to some “othering”. We all share a common humanity that gets lost in the debris.

Bernard Hill
Bernard Hill
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Yes. Once it loses local horizon, compassion becomes a menace. Now, as the female viewpoint, within which compassion is a bastion, has come to play an outsize role in the public sector, we have mercy before justice on virtually all issues, hence the chaos.

Last edited 1 year ago by Bernard Hill
Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  RM Parker

Agreed. After reading this article, I have a nauseas feeling in my stomach and an aching heart.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  RM Parker

‘Aint that the truth.

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  RM Parker

Perhaps the problem is that compassion, if it comes into play at all, and it often doesn’t, can only operate at a close-up and personal level. We have always been like this.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  RM Parker

Agreed. After reading this article, I have a nauseas feeling in my stomach and an aching heart.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  RM Parker

‘Aint that the truth.

RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago

Some days it really feels like human evolution has slipped into reverse gear.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

“the Ukraine war became a spectator sportConflict and social media are now inextricably intertwined”
This has been the case since at least the first Gulf War and possibly since Vietnam. I remember the open glee with which members of the news media greeted the prospect of a hot war. There was also the US showing the videos of their smart bombs in action.
I gave up on the news media and moved to Radio 3

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

News reels from Ww1 and WW2 performed a similar function. Before that, it was war artists. How many paintings are there of battles in the 17th and 18th C?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Quite a lot actually. Ever heard of Willem van de Velde the Elder for example?

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Not really I think the purpose of the new reels was to keep up morale in what were wars of national survival

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Quite a lot actually. Ever heard of Willem van de Velde the Elder for example?

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Not really I think the purpose of the new reels was to keep up morale in what were wars of national survival

Sudo Nim
Sudo Nim
1 year ago

I grew up then too watching Vietnam on nightly news with Cronkite.
Nah, what is happening today is something completely different, and it’s because of an architecture of many platforms (drone, bodycam, etc) for video capture intertwined with real time Internet transmission over cell networks, made available to everyone (who doesn’t have an LTE smartphone!?) with the rise of complex and highly functional social and sharing networks.
The author nails the zeitgeist with this writing.
Looking back from only say 10-20 years ago to today, where will we be in another 10-20 years, with the addition of volatile combustible catalysts of ChatGPT and evolutions of other forms of generative AI. I shudder to think of the future.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

News reels from Ww1 and WW2 performed a similar function. Before that, it was war artists. How many paintings are there of battles in the 17th and 18th C?

Sudo Nim
Sudo Nim
1 year ago

I grew up then too watching Vietnam on nightly news with Cronkite.
Nah, what is happening today is something completely different, and it’s because of an architecture of many platforms (drone, bodycam, etc) for video capture intertwined with real time Internet transmission over cell networks, made available to everyone (who doesn’t have an LTE smartphone!?) with the rise of complex and highly functional social and sharing networks.
The author nails the zeitgeist with this writing.
Looking back from only say 10-20 years ago to today, where will we be in another 10-20 years, with the addition of volatile combustible catalysts of ChatGPT and evolutions of other forms of generative AI. I shudder to think of the future.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

“the Ukraine war became a spectator sportConflict and social media are now inextricably intertwined”
This has been the case since at least the first Gulf War and possibly since Vietnam. I remember the open glee with which members of the news media greeted the prospect of a hot war. There was also the US showing the videos of their smart bombs in action.
I gave up on the news media and moved to Radio 3

Dermot O'Sullivan
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago

An interesting article but it could have left out the US culture wars diversion. Horrific pictures – a type of porn really – are presented with themed music for our entertainment(?) on the internet. They really should be banned.

Dermot O'Sullivan
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago

An interesting article but it could have left out the US culture wars diversion. Horrific pictures – a type of porn really – are presented with themed music for our entertainment(?) on the internet. They really should be banned.

Max Rottersman
Max Rottersman
1 year ago

Anything photographed, filmed or drawn on the battlefield can become someone’s war-porn. There’s not fundamentally new here. However, the quantity and quality, as the author points out, has reached new levels, and the ability to connect a civilian with the battle through payments is new. Yet not so different than sports betting.
I’ll make a strange argument. The problem isn’t that politics are driving people to take sides on social media. It’s the OPPOSITE. There isn’t enough politics in this war footage. There is no political discussion about what is being seen, only stories like this where those who watch it are described as low-lifes, pretty much.
I saw this joke the other day, “Why are Americans so stupid? Because they kill all the smart ones who go to school.” FB blocked me from posting it in a conversation. I understand the reasons why, up to a point.
When conversation gets increasingly censored what are we left with?
Videos of drones dropping grenades and politicians spouting rah-raw our team on the BBC.

Last edited 1 year ago by Max Rottersman
Max Rottersman
Max Rottersman
1 year ago

Anything photographed, filmed or drawn on the battlefield can become someone’s war-porn. There’s not fundamentally new here. However, the quantity and quality, as the author points out, has reached new levels, and the ability to connect a civilian with the battle through payments is new. Yet not so different than sports betting.
I’ll make a strange argument. The problem isn’t that politics are driving people to take sides on social media. It’s the OPPOSITE. There isn’t enough politics in this war footage. There is no political discussion about what is being seen, only stories like this where those who watch it are described as low-lifes, pretty much.
I saw this joke the other day, “Why are Americans so stupid? Because they kill all the smart ones who go to school.” FB blocked me from posting it in a conversation. I understand the reasons why, up to a point.
When conversation gets increasingly censored what are we left with?
Videos of drones dropping grenades and politicians spouting rah-raw our team on the BBC.

Last edited 1 year ago by Max Rottersman
Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago

“With over 100,000 battlefield dead on each side so far”.
The article starts with an assertion for which no evidence is given. Nor indeed any recognition that there is no concensus on these figures today.
I don’t care about Twitter or any of the other sideshow puffery that the article seems to think are important. There’s a real war for the survival of Ukraine going on. If some people want to gamify it or turn it into entertainment – or use it to further their personal ambitions – that’s really rather sad.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peter B
Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

Have you got evidence that those figures are incorrect? If so provide them otherwise why should we believe you over the article?

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

You missed the point. I don’t claim to have evidence. All I am saying is that these are disputed and uncertain. In my book, it’s completely unprofessional to attempt to state them as facts.

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Does Aris
?

Arthur G
Arthur G
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Yes. The leaked Pentagon documents specified ~17,000 Ukrainian KIA and 80,000 WIA. It also estimates Russian losses as 2.1 to 2.7 times higher, including a much higher proportion of dead.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

You missed the point. I don’t claim to have evidence. All I am saying is that these are disputed and uncertain. In my book, it’s completely unprofessional to attempt to state them as facts.

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Does Aris
?

Arthur G
Arthur G
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Yes. The leaked Pentagon documents specified ~17,000 Ukrainian KIA and 80,000 WIA. It also estimates Russian losses as 2.1 to 2.7 times higher, including a much higher proportion of dead.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

I agree. The numbers however are just an estimate to make a point which is reasonable.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

“Rather sad”? Very sad and shameful

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

Have you got evidence that those figures are incorrect? If so provide them otherwise why should we believe you over the article?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

I agree. The numbers however are just an estimate to make a point which is reasonable.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

“Rather sad”? Very sad and shameful

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago

“With over 100,000 battlefield dead on each side so far”.
The article starts with an assertion for which no evidence is given. Nor indeed any recognition that there is no concensus on these figures today.
I don’t care about Twitter or any of the other sideshow puffery that the article seems to think are important. There’s a real war for the survival of Ukraine going on. If some people want to gamify it or turn it into entertainment – or use it to further their personal ambitions – that’s really rather sad.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peter B
polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

Doesn’t put people off war does it? Perhaps we confuse real deaths with the “video” games that we play on our computers.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Maybe one leads to the other?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

“People”? I would say it doesn’t put men off war.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

People generally don’t really want war. Leaders do. Some leaders are accountable to the people, others aren’t. Takes two sides.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Maybe one leads to the other?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

“People”? I would say it doesn’t put men off war.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

People generally don’t really want war. Leaders do. Some leaders are accountable to the people, others aren’t. Takes two sides.

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

Doesn’t put people off war does it? Perhaps we confuse real deaths with the “video” games that we play on our computers.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

Nothing new here. From the slaughter in the Colosseum to public hangings, war, and violence, has always been a spectator sport. I remember lads settling down with slabs of beer to “watch the [Iraq] war”. At college in Belfast in the 80s, on a Thursday night, exiting the student union, on hearing a bomb go off in Belfast city centre, a bunch of us would hasten towards it, for a laugh / out of nosiness. Any bad motorway accident always has a slow-moving stream of rubberneckers. US air force pilots routinely refer to bomb hits (with casualties) as “bug splats”. All of these long before the internet.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Isn’t this predominately a male sport?

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Indeed. “Protecting our women and children”.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Indeed. “Protecting our women and children”.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Isn’t this predominately a male sport?

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

Nothing new here. From the slaughter in the Colosseum to public hangings, war, and violence, has always been a spectator sport. I remember lads settling down with slabs of beer to “watch the [Iraq] war”. At college in Belfast in the 80s, on a Thursday night, exiting the student union, on hearing a bomb go off in Belfast city centre, a bunch of us would hasten towards it, for a laugh / out of nosiness. Any bad motorway accident always has a slow-moving stream of rubberneckers. US air force pilots routinely refer to bomb hits (with casualties) as “bug splats”. All of these long before the internet.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Aris has made a very good point for me. Making death a sport aligns us with ancient Rome in which the spectators cheered with glee at the bloody death of people in the Arena. That this can be a hobby brings out the awful nature of those who indulge in it. While I pray for Ukraine to win and repel their invader it is certainly not right to rejoice at the death of your enemy even though it may be in the course of freeing your country from the invader.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Ukraine will not win.
You need to understand that the conflict was started by the CIA and NATO pushing further east as they expressly PROMISED NOT TO DO.
In addition to that, the Ukrainian government and the NAZIS in the Ukrainian army have been
murdering Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
This is not as clear cut as the mainstream media would have you believe.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stoater D
martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Sorry both sides were shelling the other over the last 8 years, a few dozen dead each year.

Most trolls include the number of dead in the actual 2014 war, about 14,000.

Sadly, not only can’t Russia win this war, it’s likely to implode, and cause even more trouble than in 1991.

An eternal disaster…

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Russia will win and Zelenskyy will flee to the USA with the $billons that he has embezzled.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

And you know this because…………?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

And you know this because…………?

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Russia will win and Zelenskyy will flee to the USA with the $billons that he has embezzled.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Rubbish.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Rubbish ?
That is the extent of your understanding ?
Get your head out of the Daily Mail and stop
watching TV news.
As for Zelenskyy, that is my opinion.
He’ll be in exile in the US by the end of the year, unless of course the Nazis in the Ukrainian army don’t get to him first.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Rubbish ?
That is the extent of your understanding ?
Get your head out of the Daily Mail and stop
watching TV news.
As for Zelenskyy, that is my opinion.
He’ll be in exile in the US by the end of the year, unless of course the Nazis in the Ukrainian army don’t get to him first.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

It’s not NATO, or the EU, pushing east. It’s the former members of the Soviet bloc looking west. They feel they need protection from Putin and, self-evidently, they are correct.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago

No, they don’t and no they don’t need protection from Russia.
Again, you are conflating modern day Russia
with the old Soviet Union.
Are you just plain stupid or are you in denial ?
Do you really trust the judgement of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak ?
Do you really think it is wise to mess with a nuclear power like Russia ?

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago

No, they don’t and no they don’t need protection from Russia.
Again, you are conflating modern day Russia
with the old Soviet Union.
Are you just plain stupid or are you in denial ?
Do you really trust the judgement of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak ?
Do you really think it is wise to mess with a nuclear power like Russia ?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Sorry both sides were shelling the other over the last 8 years, a few dozen dead each year.

Most trolls include the number of dead in the actual 2014 war, about 14,000.

Sadly, not only can’t Russia win this war, it’s likely to implode, and cause even more trouble than in 1991.

An eternal disaster…

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Rubbish.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

It’s not NATO, or the EU, pushing east. It’s the former members of the Soviet bloc looking west. They feel they need protection from Putin and, self-evidently, they are correct.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

I got the impression that it’s Americans who are gettings off on watching these horrendous videos.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Your good self included Ms Knight?

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Well of, the US started it.
The US people in general do not want this war.
Biden is a criminal.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Your good self included Ms Knight?

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Well of, the US started it.
The US people in general do not want this war.
Biden is a criminal.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Ukraine will not win.
You need to understand that the conflict was started by the CIA and NATO pushing further east as they expressly PROMISED NOT TO DO.
In addition to that, the Ukrainian government and the NAZIS in the Ukrainian army have been
murdering Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
This is not as clear cut as the mainstream media would have you believe.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stoater D
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

I got the impression that it’s Americans who are gettings off on watching these horrendous videos.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Aris has made a very good point for me. Making death a sport aligns us with ancient Rome in which the spectators cheered with glee at the bloody death of people in the Arena. That this can be a hobby brings out the awful nature of those who indulge in it. While I pray for Ukraine to win and repel their invader it is certainly not right to rejoice at the death of your enemy even though it may be in the course of freeing your country from the invader.

Drew Gibson
Drew Gibson
1 year ago

The article is saying that anyone can now watch, via a camera on a drone, as the drone kills a soldier. Is it only a matter of time before anyone can buy time on a drone to actually find a soldier and drop a grenade on him? Or is that happening now?

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Drew Gibson

Only if they view a 15 second commercial for some pharmaceutical product.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Drew Gibson

Only if they view a 15 second commercial for some pharmaceutical product.

Drew Gibson
Drew Gibson
1 year ago

The article is saying that anyone can now watch, via a camera on a drone, as the drone kills a soldier. Is it only a matter of time before anyone can buy time on a drone to actually find a soldier and drop a grenade on him? Or is that happening now?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago

“MORITURI TE SALUTANT!”

(*Suetonius, De Vita Caesarum: Divus Claudius, 21.6)

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

Show off.

P Branagan
P Branagan
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes Stanhopeless tends to be a bit of a boring old snob and pedant.

Last edited 1 year ago by P Branagan
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  P Branagan

Good to see you are still ticking, if not being very original.

“Stanhopeless” is Liam’s expression as I recall. You must try harder Branagan old chap.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  P Branagan

Good to see you are still ticking, if not being very original.

“Stanhopeless” is Liam’s expression as I recall. You must try harder Branagan old chap.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Tut tut Ms Knight you really are the classic ‘old scold’.

P Branagan
P Branagan
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes Stanhopeless tends to be a bit of a boring old snob and pedant.

Last edited 1 year ago by P Branagan
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Tut tut Ms Knight you really are the classic ‘old scold’.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

Show off.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago

“MORITURI TE SALUTANT!”

(*Suetonius, De Vita Caesarum: Divus Claudius, 21.6)

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

I thought it surreal from the start of the war to be actually watching it in real time on TV, kind of voyeristic and not quite right. Like “wanna come over and watch the war tonight, Bring some popcorn”.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I find the actual conventional news coverage of the war somewhat spotty. Those on Twitter might see more details captured by various camera phones. Telegram channels from Ukraine and Russia have a lot more coverage; biased by the recorder. I have no idea what may be appearing on Russian media.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

A lot of the TV coverage is fake anyway, much of it taken from video games.
The MSM cannot be trusted at all.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I find the actual conventional news coverage of the war somewhat spotty. Those on Twitter might see more details captured by various camera phones. Telegram channels from Ukraine and Russia have a lot more coverage; biased by the recorder. I have no idea what may be appearing on Russian media.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

A lot of the TV coverage is fake anyway, much of it taken from video games.
The MSM cannot be trusted at all.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

I thought it surreal from the start of the war to be actually watching it in real time on TV, kind of voyeristic and not quite right. Like “wanna come over and watch the war tonight, Bring some popcorn”.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

An unfortunate side effect of the most important issue of our time. Aris rightly points out this has no bearing on the war. But for each side it still seems an indication that they are winning. So there is a propaganda dimension.

Best to read summations of the war from people who know something about war, of which there are many. Galleotti, Kofman and Lee spring to mind.

Fun Fact: Scott Ritter, after predicting Ukraine’s fall every two weeks for well over s year, now tells the Russians, on Russian TV, that NATO is prepared for s long war. Since his income depends on getting something right, he has to check into Reality World once in while.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

There are many sources not checked into reality anymore. Most of the mainstream media has no desire for what’s real. Only desperately trying to create something clickable. Red meat has worked well for about a decade now.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

There are many sources not checked into reality anymore. Most of the mainstream media has no desire for what’s real. Only desperately trying to create something clickable. Red meat has worked well for about a decade now.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

An unfortunate side effect of the most important issue of our time. Aris rightly points out this has no bearing on the war. But for each side it still seems an indication that they are winning. So there is a propaganda dimension.

Best to read summations of the war from people who know something about war, of which there are many. Galleotti, Kofman and Lee spring to mind.

Fun Fact: Scott Ritter, after predicting Ukraine’s fall every two weeks for well over s year, now tells the Russians, on Russian TV, that NATO is prepared for s long war. Since his income depends on getting something right, he has to check into Reality World once in while.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Actually, I’m somewhat more worried about the incessant call on prime time Russia television to kill all Ukrainians who don’t give up their identity as Ukrainians.

Might have more real world consequences than films of drone strikes.

Come to think of, the consequences actually started a year ago in places like Bucha.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Actually, I’m somewhat more worried about the incessant call on prime time Russia television to kill all Ukrainians who don’t give up their identity as Ukrainians.

Might have more real world consequences than films of drone strikes.

Come to think of, the consequences actually started a year ago in places like Bucha.

rob monks
rob monks
1 year ago

the impact of technology on how war is covered in the media. This piece is very good. The perspective is from a journalist who is a little conservative (from just my viewpoint) but has to be one of the finest war journalists. Thomas Fazi is also very good. However, it would be good for Unherd to have more Marxist viewpoints.

rob monks
rob monks
1 year ago

the impact of technology on how war is covered in the media. This piece is very good. The perspective is from a journalist who is a little conservative (from just my viewpoint) but has to be one of the finest war journalists. Thomas Fazi is also very good. However, it would be good for Unherd to have more Marxist viewpoints.

stephen archer
stephen archer
1 year ago

It’s interesting reading comments on the war in Ukraine and the profilerance of commenters who go against the European mainstream view that Ukraine is suffering from a vile agressor and that almost anything goes in ridding us Europeans from the scourge and cancer that the USSR and Russia have represented over the last 110 years or so. Two world wars are enough, we don’t need another madman in power slaughtering tens of thousands on European soil. The assumption I’ve made so far is that it’s been Russian trolls at work in these columns, but I’m realising I could be wrong. Could it instead be republicans in the US with no interest or understanding in world politics and neither having an understanding of why the US has become so dominant in the world, at least until recently? There’s a wild speculation for you!

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  stephen archer

Those that critise the West’s obsession with this conflict are not Russian trolls.
Are you really so simple minded?
We want peace and the ONLY way to get that
Is for this crook Zelenskyy to sit down and negotiate.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Negotiate how much of Ukraine he must surrender to Russia? Seems Ukrainians are not keen on that. Perhaps Russia might withdraw and allow Ukrainians to work out their differences?

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

Crimea was always Russian, as are the people that live there.
The Ukrainian army has been killing ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
That was just one reason Russia invaded.
The whole conflict was engineered by the west.
It seems that nothing has been learned from the disastrous misadventures in the Middle East.
This will not end well for the war-mongers
in Washington and London.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

Crimea was always Russian, as are the people that live there.
The Ukrainian army has been killing ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
That was just one reason Russia invaded.
The whole conflict was engineered by the west.
It seems that nothing has been learned from the disastrous misadventures in the Middle East.
This will not end well for the war-mongers
in Washington and London.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Negotiate how much of Ukraine he must surrender to Russia? Seems Ukrainians are not keen on that. Perhaps Russia might withdraw and allow Ukrainians to work out their differences?

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  stephen archer

Those that critise the West’s obsession with this conflict are not Russian trolls.
Are you really so simple minded?
We want peace and the ONLY way to get that
Is for this crook Zelenskyy to sit down and negotiate.

stephen archer
stephen archer
1 year ago

It’s interesting reading comments on the war in Ukraine and the profilerance of commenters who go against the European mainstream view that Ukraine is suffering from a vile agressor and that almost anything goes in ridding us Europeans from the scourge and cancer that the USSR and Russia have represented over the last 110 years or so. Two world wars are enough, we don’t need another madman in power slaughtering tens of thousands on European soil. The assumption I’ve made so far is that it’s been Russian trolls at work in these columns, but I’m realising I could be wrong. Could it instead be republicans in the US with no interest or understanding in world politics and neither having an understanding of why the US has become so dominant in the world, at least until recently? There’s a wild speculation for you!

James Kirk
James Kirk
1 year ago

When did Orwell write 1984? There’s a scene where a boat full of refugees is machine gunned in the Med, part of a propaganda film the audience are forced to watch.
Would the longbowmen slaughtering the French at CrĂ©cy being watched remotely on magical phones attract the same ghoulish delight? Or remonstrations from what would be today’s remoaners?
Would such close observation of the death camps in WW2 have made any difference to the outcome?
As always, it’s not guns that kill, it’s the bearers who take aim and fire. It’s not the phones, the drones, the media that are sick, it’s the viewers.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 year ago

Aris, you have become a sick puppy – I have watched your evolution for years on here, others too – maybe it has something to do with the medium – but I do not think so really – it is you allowing the media to do this to you, you lack the understanding of good and evil perhaps – you think ‘Right and Wrong’ – But that is not what this is! This is the battle of ‘Good V.S. Evil’..

For the avoidance of doubt — or rather, to avoid being accused of pro-Russian sympathies by enthusiasts of this strange and awful new content — I want Ukraine to win the war. I understand that to do that, the Ukrainians will have to kill and keep killing”

WHY???????? WHY?

I have wanted peace since day one. Day 2 I wanted peace, today I want peace. I do not want anymore legless young people – why do you?

This is an Evil, Evil, Evil War – it is Satanic. Your sick article shows how Satanic it is – and also your writing shows you sliding… you think it is just this twisted stuff being normalized by the little drones and Twitter sharing………….

NO! It is you are allowing yourself to let satanic wickedness into your heart to harden, to yeild and give up, because you say – well – everyone is doing it, everyone is normalizing, …it just is…The Romans did not know better – you do. Do not let this stuff rust your soul – fight it…. Call this war evil – call those involved evil, fight it Morally, Ethically, fight for goodness – be a solider for good using your ‘bully pulpit’ be a Moral Crusader – this is an Evil War. Biden and Boris are soldiers of Satan…. keep your soul as unpolluted as you can – and help your readers to do the same – not like this disgusting article where you give up and just let it corrode you.

NO, NO, NO.

It is sick. I would never watch that – your soul is polluted by it. Like sniffing toxic gas pollutes your body – so you turn away – hold your breath till it passes…turn away, and then tell the readers to turn away from that which is evil – and take in that which is Good. You have this platform – you understand that makes you advocate and inform and be one with the side of good or evil, that means you carry a burden of doing right……and not just becoming jaded and cynical….

There is only one good side in this – and it is Peace.ï»ż

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

You’re not calling for peace, you’re calling for a Ukrainian surrender. They’re not the same thing at all.
Should the Allies have let the Germans conquer Europe without firing a shot during the Second World War? It would have saved many lives after all, and that appears to be what you’re advocating the Ukrainians should do.
How many times on this board have you spouted the “give me liberty or death” quote on any article regarding American gun laws? Apparently you don’t actually believe it at all, although the Ukrainians clearly do with the fight they’ve put up so far.
You also regularly spout your Christian beliefs, yet mocked the killing of a mentally ill man on the Subway. Maybe it’s your moral compass that has gone askew rather than Aris’?

Last edited 1 year ago by Billy Bob
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

I’ve long stopped taking notice of anything this guy has to say, under his various guises, since it became clear to me he’s simply trying to create an impression with his use of language than engage in serious discussion.

stephen archer
stephen archer
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

The language smacks of Google translate. ”sick puppy”? Who uses terms like that? Anonymous pseudonyms add nothing to the credibility of commenters. Time for Unherd to flush out the trolls. This is not about freedom of speech, it’s more to do with subversion.

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
1 year ago
Reply to  stephen archer

So, in your version of free speech once again everything is banned that you don’t like or agree with.
News flash-that ain’t free speach

stephen archer
stephen archer
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

That’s not what I said. Do you have problems comprehending the english language? ain’t ? speach? Are you one of them? Where’s the full stop?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  stephen archer

English with a capital E please.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  stephen archer

English with a capital E please.

stephen archer
stephen archer
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

That’s not what I said. Do you have problems comprehending the english language? ain’t ? speach? Are you one of them? Where’s the full stop?

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
1 year ago
Reply to  stephen archer

So, in your version of free speech once again everything is banned that you don’t like or agree with.
News flash-that ain’t free speach

stephen archer
stephen archer
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

The language smacks of Google translate. ”sick puppy”? Who uses terms like that? Anonymous pseudonyms add nothing to the credibility of commenters. Time for Unherd to flush out the trolls. This is not about freedom of speech, it’s more to do with subversion.

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

You would rather more Russian humans got killed than Ukrainian humans? Why, do you like people being killed?
Watch this, you won’t believe it because you accept all the propaganda, but watch it anyway.
https://www.onenewspage.com/video/20220316/14523981/16-2022-Real-Americas-Voice-News-Interview.htm

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

In this instance yes, I would rather see more Russian soldiers killed than Ukrainian ones as that would imply Ukraine is winning the conflict and can soo return to living in peace. In much the same way I’m glad more German soldiers were killed than Allied ones as it meant that murderous regime was being defeated.
That’s not to say I don’t feel sympathy for those that are killed, especially the young conscripts given little choice but to go to the front lines, but I’m perfectly capable of holding both those opinions at the same time

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

In this instance yes, I would rather see more Russian soldiers killed than Ukrainian ones as that would imply Ukraine is winning the conflict and can soo return to living in peace. In much the same way I’m glad more German soldiers were killed than Allied ones as it meant that murderous regime was being defeated.
That’s not to say I don’t feel sympathy for those that are killed, especially the young conscripts given little choice but to go to the front lines, but I’m perfectly capable of holding both those opinions at the same time

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

I’ve long stopped taking notice of anything this guy has to say, under his various guises, since it became clear to me he’s simply trying to create an impression with his use of language than engage in serious discussion.

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

You would rather more Russian humans got killed than Ukrainian humans? Why, do you like people being killed?
Watch this, you won’t believe it because you accept all the propaganda, but watch it anyway.
https://www.onenewspage.com/video/20220316/14523981/16-2022-Real-Americas-Voice-News-Interview.htm

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

I think the opposite is the case. He was amongst other things pointing out a disturbing fact in that some were getting a thrill out of watching real killing.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

You’re not calling for peace, you’re calling for a Ukrainian surrender. They’re not the same thing at all.
Should the Allies have let the Germans conquer Europe without firing a shot during the Second World War? It would have saved many lives after all, and that appears to be what you’re advocating the Ukrainians should do.
How many times on this board have you spouted the “give me liberty or death” quote on any article regarding American gun laws? Apparently you don’t actually believe it at all, although the Ukrainians clearly do with the fight they’ve put up so far.
You also regularly spout your Christian beliefs, yet mocked the killing of a mentally ill man on the Subway. Maybe it’s your moral compass that has gone askew rather than Aris’?

Last edited 1 year ago by Billy Bob
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

I think the opposite is the case. He was amongst other things pointing out a disturbing fact in that some were getting a thrill out of watching real killing.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 year ago

Aris, you have become a sick puppy – I have watched your evolution for years on here, others too – maybe it has something to do with the medium – but I do not think so really – it is you allowing the media to do this to you, you lack the understanding of good and evil perhaps – you think ‘Right and Wrong’ – But that is not what this is! This is the battle of ‘Good V.S. Evil’..

For the avoidance of doubt — or rather, to avoid being accused of pro-Russian sympathies by enthusiasts of this strange and awful new content — I want Ukraine to win the war. I understand that to do that, the Ukrainians will have to kill and keep killing”

WHY???????? WHY?

I have wanted peace since day one. Day 2 I wanted peace, today I want peace. I do not want anymore legless young people – why do you?

This is an Evil, Evil, Evil War – it is Satanic. Your sick article shows how Satanic it is – and also your writing shows you sliding… you think it is just this twisted stuff being normalized by the little drones and Twitter sharing………….

NO! It is you are allowing yourself to let satanic wickedness into your heart to harden, to yeild and give up, because you say – well – everyone is doing it, everyone is normalizing, …it just is…The Romans did not know better – you do. Do not let this stuff rust your soul – fight it…. Call this war evil – call those involved evil, fight it Morally, Ethically, fight for goodness – be a solider for good using your ‘bully pulpit’ be a Moral Crusader – this is an Evil War. Biden and Boris are soldiers of Satan…. keep your soul as unpolluted as you can – and help your readers to do the same – not like this disgusting article where you give up and just let it corrode you.

NO, NO, NO.

It is sick. I would never watch that – your soul is polluted by it. Like sniffing toxic gas pollutes your body – so you turn away – hold your breath till it passes…turn away, and then tell the readers to turn away from that which is evil – and take in that which is Good. You have this platform – you understand that makes you advocate and inform and be one with the side of good or evil, that means you carry a burden of doing right……and not just becoming jaded and cynical….

There is only one good side in this – and it is Peace.ï»ż