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Amsterdam turns on its sex punters Its red light district has been an unmitigated disaster

Nothing will deter them. Paulo Amorim/Getty Images

Nothing will deter them. Paulo Amorim/Getty Images


April 12, 2023   5 mins

“If the Dutch government wants to groom millions of men every year into treating women like pieces of meat, Amsterdam is the best training ground they could possibly have.”

Anja, runs a support and advocacy service for women wishing to escape window prostitution in Amsterdam, and she sees the devastating effect that legalising prostitution has had on women, locals — and on punters. It has been an unmitigated disaster.

Trafficking and pimping has increased, organised crime is rife, and women are not protected from violence. Research from 2018 found that 97% of those involved in prostitution in the Netherlands had experienced some form of serious physical and/or sexual abuse from pimps and punters. Residents, politicians, police and prostitutes are all up in arms. And the sex tourists keep coming.

Yet the government, as I have discovered from 20 years of reporting on the Dutch sex trade, tends to favour the head-in-the-sand approach. Politicians are reluctant to openly criticise the industry because they make a lot of money from it. “Sex clubs, sex shows, sex shops and coffee shops all have a vested interest in keeping window prostitution going,” says Else Iping, a retired politician who lives locally, “because the windows act as an advertisement for the whole district.”

“The neighbourhood is going down the drain because of the window prostitution,” she says. “And it is not safe for the women. The windows themselves are now just as much of a tourist attraction — so thousands of people come to walk through. It’s humiliating: the women are like animals in the zoo.”

The progressive female Mayor of Amsterdam, Femke Halsema, is trying to compromise. She describes the situation as the paradox of tolerance: “People come to Amsterdam because of the tolerance but show behaviour we cannot tolerate, behaviour we should call immoral, that they wouldn’t show at home.”

Having legalised prostitution, however, and opened its arms to sex tourists, the city is now trying to put the genie back in the bottle as residents complain of the noise, crime and expense. New rules have been introduced regarding the brothels: they will have to close at 3am at weekends instead of 6am. And there are plans to relocate 100 of De Wallen’s 249 famous window brothels to an “erotic centre“ on the outskirts of the city. Somewhere “chic”, says Halsema.

But this is to close a blind eye to the fact that the entire city is promoting “prostitution on an industrial scale”, says Anja, a former prostitute. “The government wants to shove the women out of the way to keep the residents happy, but it is just moving the problem elsewhere.” And while the women are there, the sex tourists will still come.

It’s hardly surprising that a particularly problematic group of tourists — British men aged 18-34 — sees the destination as an attractive one. In a rather naive attempt to put them off, a “Stay Away” video campaign was launched last month. Those using internet search terms such as “stag party Amsterdam” or “pub crawl Amsterdam” will be diverted to a video campaign that details “the risks and consequences of nuisance and excessive alcohol and drug use”.

A 30-second video shows a very drunk man being arrested on the streets of Amsterdam. He is handcuffed and warned that coming to Amsterdam for a “messy night” and getting trashed will add up to a €140 fine plus a criminal record, so: Stay Away! Another shows a hospitalised man on a heart monitor, getting IV fluids. “Coming for drugs to Amsterdam? Stay Away!”

But I have interviewed dozens of British punters, including many in Amsterdam, and let’s face it, a video of a bloke being thrown in jail isn’t going to register, let alone act as a deterrent. One interviewee who paid for sex in Amsterdam told me, in harrowing detail, about his transaction. “She told me her pimp watched every punter leave the joint, and if he looked unhappy, she got a leathering,” he said.

Men in De Wallen have no respect for the women they ogle. They take photographs of those perched behind the window, despite the many signs telling them that it’s prohibited. They flash their genitals at the prostituted women and shout obscenities towards women walking through the area. A 2018 campaign to stop sex tourists urinating, defecating and vomiting in the streets was deemed a failure by local politicians. “Nothing seems to deter them,” a city prosecutor told me at the time.

Renate van der Zee, a journalist and feminist activist, tells me there’s a Dutch saying that describes this campaign perfectly: dweilen met de kraan open. It means “mopping the floor dry while the tap is still running”. The Stay Away campaign is too little, and far too late, she says. “You can’t deal with sexual exploitation and excess tourism by warning the men they will be put in prison,” she says. “But at least if window prostitution was abolished, you will get rid of most of the sex tourists.” Legalisation, she explains, has been a huge mistake. “Almost all of the women are exploited.”

The mayor holds, at best, a disingenuous position. She talks of “sex entrepreneurs” and their business model in one breath, and in the next: “What we do not welcome is people who come here on a vacation from morals.” Meanwhile, the Dutch government clings to its legalised regime despite knowing that the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous for women: the Netherlands was forced to close an increasing number of its window brothels after it became clear that organised criminals were running them.

As Diederik Boomsma, leader of the local Christian Democratic Appeal Party, points out: “What I have tried to achieve for many years is to close down the red light district. It’s quite bizarre that you can defend it. People are still attached to this faux romantic idea that prostitution belongs in Amsterdam, and it is quaint and old, but at least we should all agree that prostitution should not be a tourist attraction?” He believes that nothing will change unless serious steps are taken to close down the industry. “Men come here and they think that they are able to behave as though they were at a sex festival
 So if you really want to do something about it, then you shut the window brothels, and the sex clubs, and return the oldest part of the city back to the citizens.”

Obviously, there are those in Amsterdam who are against the restrictions. At a meeting about the mega brothels at the weekend, angry locals who don’t want a “sex club” on their doorstep found themselves on the same side as PROUD, the Dutch “sex workers’ union” who want the women to stay in their red neon booths, where they can “work safely”.

PROUD, along with the progressive Left, insists that selling sex is a “job like any other” and that reforms against sex tourism are increasing stigma towards women. Its website has a front page devoted to a quote from Xaviera Hollander, one of Holland’s most notorious pimps who coined the term “happy hooker”. “You can call me mercenary, or call me madam, but, as I always tell my customers — just call me anytime!” Presumably with that in mind, PROUD opposes earlier closing times for brothels as well as the Stay Away campaign on the grounds that this is bad for business. They insist that they are being unfairly discriminated against and “used as a scapegoat for the city’s problem with mass tourism”.

I ask Anja whether sex tourists in Amsterdam are being unfairly vilified. “These men are the worst, and they have made Amsterdam into one big brothel,” she tells me. “Most of them act as if they are buying a burger, and quite frankly they would treat one better than they treat the girls in those windows.”


Julie Bindel is an investigative journalist, author, and feminist campaigner. Her latest book is Feminism for Women: The Real Route to Liberation. She also writes on Substack.

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polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

Perhaps earier generations knew something that we have forgotten: Selling and buying s8x may be the oldest trade in the book, but it isn’t the basis for a viable civilisation.
My advice to my younger self – Find a nice girl and marry her. Sure you will be bored. But you will also be happy.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Good advice, but don’t do it too young. You need to have a bit of fun before you settle down

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Oh Lord, make me virtuous, but not yet..

Stephen Kristan
Stephen Kristan
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Someone’s been reading St. Augustine.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

A life of sin, finished up with a death bed repentance will do me nicely

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Get your timing right

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

A gamble admittedly, but one worth taking when the alternative is a life of piety in my eyes

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

A gamble admittedly, but one worth taking when the alternative is a life of piety in my eyes

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Get your timing right

Stephen Kristan
Stephen Kristan
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Someone’s been reading St. Augustine.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

A life of sin, finished up with a death bed repentance will do me nicely

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Fun, in the sense of a few years of casual sex, pre-supposes that:
Casual sex is interesting;Conveniently, one never falls in love before e.g., 25 / 27;We need to “practice sex”; andEmotions can be switched on and off like a tap (without becoming a sociopath).

Cassander Antipatru
Cassander Antipatru
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Also pre-supposes that you can spend a decade or so sleeping around with a variety of casual partners, and then effortlessly redirect your sexual appetites towards monogamous living.

Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago

One who doesn’t fall in love before 25/27 is sadly missing some soul. Experiencing a broken heart is what let’s you know you’re alive.

Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago

One who doesn’t fall in love before 25/27 is sadly missing some soul. Experiencing a broken heart is what let’s you know you’re alive.

Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Spoken like a REAL MAN !

Cassander Antipatru
Cassander Antipatru
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Also pre-supposes that you can spend a decade or so sleeping around with a variety of casual partners, and then effortlessly redirect your sexual appetites towards monogamous living.

Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Spoken like a REAL MAN !

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Depends what you class as fun.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

Sex, drugs and rock & roll
..and pi$$ poor lower league football

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

Sex, drugs and rock & roll
..and pi$$ poor lower league football

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Oh Lord, make me virtuous, but not yet..

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Fun, in the sense of a few years of casual sex, pre-supposes that:
Casual sex is interesting;Conveniently, one never falls in love before e.g., 25 / 27;We need to “practice sex”; andEmotions can be switched on and off like a tap (without becoming a sociopath).

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Depends what you class as fun.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Casual sex is overrated – or at least casual sex with me is overrated.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

You will be,or have been,very bored with a nasty woman,not girl,they grow up. That Hannah Arendt who coined the term ” the banality of evil” got it right.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

The problem with “find a nice girl and marry her” is that she won’t remain a nice girl for ever and there’s a 50 percent chance she will divorce you, take half your pay check, and deny you access to your children.
For men, marriage has become an obsolete framework for relationships and places them at a terrible legal disadvantage. The survival advice for young men today is, find a girl, yes, just don’t put a ring on it and don’t plan on it lasting for ever. And whatever you do, don’t let her move in with you and keep your finances separate. Consider a prophylactic vasectomy if the financial burden of children doesn’t appeal to you, but don’t advertise the fact.
Don’t be a simp, protect yourself and protect your future.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Good advice, but don’t do it too young. You need to have a bit of fun before you settle down

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Casual sex is overrated – or at least casual sex with me is overrated.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

You will be,or have been,very bored with a nasty woman,not girl,they grow up. That Hannah Arendt who coined the term ” the banality of evil” got it right.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

The problem with “find a nice girl and marry her” is that she won’t remain a nice girl for ever and there’s a 50 percent chance she will divorce you, take half your pay check, and deny you access to your children.
For men, marriage has become an obsolete framework for relationships and places them at a terrible legal disadvantage. The survival advice for young men today is, find a girl, yes, just don’t put a ring on it and don’t plan on it lasting for ever. And whatever you do, don’t let her move in with you and keep your finances separate. Consider a prophylactic vasectomy if the financial burden of children doesn’t appeal to you, but don’t advertise the fact.
Don’t be a simp, protect yourself and protect your future.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

Perhaps earier generations knew something that we have forgotten: Selling and buying s8x may be the oldest trade in the book, but it isn’t the basis for a viable civilisation.
My advice to my younger self – Find a nice girl and marry her. Sure you will be bored. But you will also be happy.

David Pogge
David Pogge
1 year ago

Men want sex. Women who are willing to sell sex for money are inevitably going to be seen as merchants and the sexual use of their bodies will be seen as nothing more than a service. If the service is very expensive, complex to arrange, and conducted under more refined conditions, the merchant and the service are likely to be regarded more positively and treated with greater care. Not always, but more often than not. If the service is provided under the most coarse and meaningless conditions then the service will be seen as being worth much less, the provider will be regarded with less esteem – perhaps even contempt. Not always, but more often than not. This is the difference between dining at a fine restaurant and getting a burger at MacDonalds drive thru. This is also the difference between an expensive ‘date’ with a high classed escort in a nice hotel versus sexual intercourse with a woman who is advertising herself by sitting in a window. Both are merchants selling a service, but they are regarded and treated differently by their customers. That this surprises anyone seems disingenuous to me. That you get more of this if you legalize it and advertise it and make your country the world’s best known purveyor is breathtakingly ignorant. If you see this kind of cheap, meaningless, commercial sex as degrading but you make it a profitable business then your community and your culture will be degraded. This is an example of people getting what they asked for and then lamenting the entirely obvious effect that it produces.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  David Pogge

As a female incel,lol,or in the good old word,a Spinster I shouldn’t even be in this discussion,but,being opinionated on everything I can’t resist. Being old I recall the late 1960s/early 1970s and the then prevailing idea about SEX as disseminated via pop songs,books,films,tv,radio and all the ephemeral in between stuff,the “conversation” that time sweeps away (only now it’s all in cyberspace and can be retrieved with the right tech and motivation). Of course lots of people knew better but they were easily mocked, refuted,abused,shouted down,called names,and of course sexual intercourse having only recently been invented or discovered by the post war generation none of those old people knew about sex anyway,it wasn’t about in their day. So the idea was sex was fun,sex was liberating,if EVERYONE was having copious joyfully fulfilling sex,no one would be taking a cruel and prurient interest in other people’s sexual activity as they’d be too busy with their own. And sex that was to do with love and freedom was a force for good in the world. Sadly as many places in the world have found out,sex is or gets,allied with drugs trading,violence,all sorts of criminal activity,abusive behaviour, environmental degradation,homelessness,piles of detritus, rats and other infestations,filth and bad behaviour.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

What on earth is an incel? is there a cure?

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago

Seriously? Incel = involuntary celibacy. Male incels can be violent haters of women who – the audacity/outrage of it! – deny them sex

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

ahh another word for being a minger or grimmy run winner?

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

That description has never made any sense whatsoever.
Sex is available for a few quid in any town in Britain.
These so-called Incels are either very poor or tight fisted.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

ahh another word for being a minger or grimmy run winner?

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

That description has never made any sense whatsoever.
Sex is available for a few quid in any town in Britain.
These so-called Incels are either very poor or tight fisted.

David Pogge
David Pogge
1 year ago

It’s yet another modern jargon term for something that has been around for a very long time. It’s what we used to refer to by the term ‘guy who can’t get laid’. Inventing these oh-so-clever terms always seems to make people think that they have found something new and that the thing in question is somehow special, unique, or different.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago

Seriously? Incel = involuntary celibacy. Male incels can be violent haters of women who – the audacity/outrage of it! – deny them sex

David Pogge
David Pogge
1 year ago

It’s yet another modern jargon term for something that has been around for a very long time. It’s what we used to refer to by the term ‘guy who can’t get laid’. Inventing these oh-so-clever terms always seems to make people think that they have found something new and that the thing in question is somehow special, unique, or different.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

would you describe yourself as ” a right minger”?

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
1 year ago

You used to be bigotted, now you seem thick and bigotted, grow up Nicky you are actually quite old, now is the time…

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
1 year ago

You used to be bigotted, now you seem thick and bigotted, grow up Nicky you are actually quite old, now is the time…

David Pogge
David Pogge
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

Sex is like everything else that is important in life: A combination of good and bad things, each of which is attached to a larger network of things that are also a combination of good and bad. Whenever sex is portrayed as all good (e.g., freedom, love, fun, romance, etc.) or all bad (e.g., lust, objectification, exploitation, sin, etc.) the portrayal is wrong, simplistic, and oblivious to human nature. Those embracing any one-sided and simplistic view typically have an agenda that is somehow both self-serving and dishonest, and the course of action they lobby for seems to always cause at least as many problems as it solves. Such is life.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

What on earth is an incel? is there a cure?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

would you describe yourself as ” a right minger”?

David Pogge
David Pogge
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

Sex is like everything else that is important in life: A combination of good and bad things, each of which is attached to a larger network of things that are also a combination of good and bad. Whenever sex is portrayed as all good (e.g., freedom, love, fun, romance, etc.) or all bad (e.g., lust, objectification, exploitation, sin, etc.) the portrayal is wrong, simplistic, and oblivious to human nature. Those embracing any one-sided and simplistic view typically have an agenda that is somehow both self-serving and dishonest, and the course of action they lobby for seems to always cause at least as many problems as it solves. Such is life.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  David Pogge

As a female incel,lol,or in the good old word,a Spinster I shouldn’t even be in this discussion,but,being opinionated on everything I can’t resist. Being old I recall the late 1960s/early 1970s and the then prevailing idea about SEX as disseminated via pop songs,books,films,tv,radio and all the ephemeral in between stuff,the “conversation” that time sweeps away (only now it’s all in cyberspace and can be retrieved with the right tech and motivation). Of course lots of people knew better but they were easily mocked, refuted,abused,shouted down,called names,and of course sexual intercourse having only recently been invented or discovered by the post war generation none of those old people knew about sex anyway,it wasn’t about in their day. So the idea was sex was fun,sex was liberating,if EVERYONE was having copious joyfully fulfilling sex,no one would be taking a cruel and prurient interest in other people’s sexual activity as they’d be too busy with their own. And sex that was to do with love and freedom was a force for good in the world. Sadly as many places in the world have found out,sex is or gets,allied with drugs trading,violence,all sorts of criminal activity,abusive behaviour, environmental degradation,homelessness,piles of detritus, rats and other infestations,filth and bad behaviour.

David Pogge
David Pogge
1 year ago

Men want sex. Women who are willing to sell sex for money are inevitably going to be seen as merchants and the sexual use of their bodies will be seen as nothing more than a service. If the service is very expensive, complex to arrange, and conducted under more refined conditions, the merchant and the service are likely to be regarded more positively and treated with greater care. Not always, but more often than not. If the service is provided under the most coarse and meaningless conditions then the service will be seen as being worth much less, the provider will be regarded with less esteem – perhaps even contempt. Not always, but more often than not. This is the difference between dining at a fine restaurant and getting a burger at MacDonalds drive thru. This is also the difference between an expensive ‘date’ with a high classed escort in a nice hotel versus sexual intercourse with a woman who is advertising herself by sitting in a window. Both are merchants selling a service, but they are regarded and treated differently by their customers. That this surprises anyone seems disingenuous to me. That you get more of this if you legalize it and advertise it and make your country the world’s best known purveyor is breathtakingly ignorant. If you see this kind of cheap, meaningless, commercial sex as degrading but you make it a profitable business then your community and your culture will be degraded. This is an example of people getting what they asked for and then lamenting the entirely obvious effect that it produces.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

You can’t have your cake and eat it too on the emancipation of women. Julie Bindel is once more experiencing the paradox of liberalism rumning up against reality.

Clare Gibb
Clare Gibb
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

I’m sorry – HOW is prositution the emancipation of women?? Prostitution is the polar opposite of emancipation. You can be liberal and know that “sex work is work” is a complete lie.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Hookers are a trafficked, exploited under-class. Human slavery in action.

philip kern
philip kern
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Your comment should be deleted.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  philip kern

Nonsense, freedom of speech is freedom of speech, no ifs no buts!

We also have quite adequate libel laws, should they be necessary.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  philip kern

Nonsense, freedom of speech is freedom of speech, no ifs no buts!

We also have quite adequate libel laws, should they be necessary.

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Low rent comment.

Cassander Antipatru
Cassander Antipatru
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

A big part of the liberal feminist project has been to drain any sense of sacredness out of sex. If sex is just a leisure activity like any other, there’s no reason why hiring someone to have sex with you should be any more exploitative than hiring a tennis coach.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

That’d depend, surely, on whether or not the tennis coach got beaten up by his pimp if his client failed to execute a decent backhand slice.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Catullus would have loved that simile!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Catullus would have loved that simile!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

That’d depend, surely, on whether or not the tennis coach got beaten up by his pimp if his client failed to execute a decent backhand slice.

Liz Johnson
Liz Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

You are disgusting

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Low ball comment

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Read that comment and weep…2023: mysogyny is alive and well!

Last edited 1 year ago by Danielle Treille
Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Hookers are a trafficked, exploited under-class. Human slavery in action.

philip kern
philip kern
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Your comment should be deleted.

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Low rent comment.

Cassander Antipatru
Cassander Antipatru
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

A big part of the liberal feminist project has been to drain any sense of sacredness out of sex. If sex is just a leisure activity like any other, there’s no reason why hiring someone to have sex with you should be any more exploitative than hiring a tennis coach.

Liz Johnson
Liz Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

You are disgusting

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Low ball comment

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Gibb

Read that comment and weep…2023: mysogyny is alive and well!

Last edited 1 year ago by Danielle Treille
Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

The same people that say sex work is empowering want to criminalize men staring at women and other forms of objectification. You can’t have it both ways.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Sex work is NOT empowering.If it is, why aren’t more men getting paid to give ass/blow jobs??? I don’t see many males displayed in windows like objects of consumption. And YES, definitely criminalise men abusing these women, either by pimping or consuming!

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Sex work is NOT empowering.If it is, why aren’t more men getting paid to give ass/blow jobs??? I don’t see many males displayed in windows like objects of consumption. And YES, definitely criminalise men abusing these women, either by pimping or consuming!

Clare Gibb
Clare Gibb
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

I’m sorry – HOW is prositution the emancipation of women?? Prostitution is the polar opposite of emancipation. You can be liberal and know that “sex work is work” is a complete lie.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

The same people that say sex work is empowering want to criminalize men staring at women and other forms of objectification. You can’t have it both ways.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

You can’t have your cake and eat it too on the emancipation of women. Julie Bindel is once more experiencing the paradox of liberalism rumning up against reality.

David McKee
David McKee
1 year ago

There is always this tendency to romanticise prostitution. Hollander’s ‘Happy Hooker’ is one. Sydney Biddle Burrows’ ‘Mayflower Madam’ is another. And as for ‘Pretty Woman’…! The trick only works if you are in happy ignorance about what the real thing looks like.
The problem is we don’t really know what the real thing looks like. Are the girls Julie spoke to typical? It’s been reported that students take on sex work to finance their studies (https://theconversation.com/student-sex-work-is-happening-and-universities-need-to-respond-with-health-services-167767). If so, there ought to be quite a lot of middle class, middle aged graduates out there, with dark secrets in their pasts. Gentlemen, you might even be married to one!
We really do need to find out more, if we are to protect the women who choose to take on this line of work.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  David McKee

have you ever met any, have you actually ever talked to any? have you ever had a friendship or relationship with any? … I have: I even helped one sell her “on line escort business” to a Russian woman! I once cooked dinner for 8 ‘ off duty’ high end London escorts, and was absolutely fascinated as to how they all defended their profession, and I also heard some fascinating stories about some of their public figure clients.

David McKee
David McKee
1 year ago

Thank you for that, Nicky. My point remains, though. Are your high end escorts typical, or is the trafficked woman from Eastern Europe typical?
I suspect it’s a profession with a very high turnover of women, but that’s just a guess.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago

Because they’re all very stupid. Having money or wealth does not legitimize your activity. And admiring stupid gossipy lies is just credulity.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

They were all pretty bright, actually, and as I met them and you didnt, your comment is pointless.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

They were all pretty bright, actually, and as I met them and you didnt, your comment is pointless.

David McKee
David McKee
1 year ago

Thank you for that, Nicky. My point remains, though. Are your high end escorts typical, or is the trafficked woman from Eastern Europe typical?
I suspect it’s a profession with a very high turnover of women, but that’s just a guess.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago

Because they’re all very stupid. Having money or wealth does not legitimize your activity. And admiring stupid gossipy lies is just credulity.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  David McKee

I feel sorry for young women students who take up having sex with whoever to find their studies as they dont know it but theyve just shut the door on their future forever.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  David McKee

The women who choose to take on this line of work are probably less than 1%.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

In 2019, nearly 1000 female students at Cambridge were signed up to Seeking Arrangements, the top sugar-brokering site.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

In 2019, nearly 1000 female students at Cambridge were signed up to Seeking Arrangements, the top sugar-brokering site.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  David McKee

have you ever met any, have you actually ever talked to any? have you ever had a friendship or relationship with any? … I have: I even helped one sell her “on line escort business” to a Russian woman! I once cooked dinner for 8 ‘ off duty’ high end London escorts, and was absolutely fascinated as to how they all defended their profession, and I also heard some fascinating stories about some of their public figure clients.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  David McKee

I feel sorry for young women students who take up having sex with whoever to find their studies as they dont know it but theyve just shut the door on their future forever.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  David McKee

The women who choose to take on this line of work are probably less than 1%.

David McKee
David McKee
1 year ago

There is always this tendency to romanticise prostitution. Hollander’s ‘Happy Hooker’ is one. Sydney Biddle Burrows’ ‘Mayflower Madam’ is another. And as for ‘Pretty Woman’…! The trick only works if you are in happy ignorance about what the real thing looks like.
The problem is we don’t really know what the real thing looks like. Are the girls Julie spoke to typical? It’s been reported that students take on sex work to finance their studies (https://theconversation.com/student-sex-work-is-happening-and-universities-need-to-respond-with-health-services-167767). If so, there ought to be quite a lot of middle class, middle aged graduates out there, with dark secrets in their pasts. Gentlemen, you might even be married to one!
We really do need to find out more, if we are to protect the women who choose to take on this line of work.

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago

All this may be true and the seedy awful human trafficking side cannot be denied. Then again, I still do think that being in a red light window is safer than working from for instance one of the ‘puti clubs’ far from civilisation along Spanish motor ways on industrial sites (polígonos) for instance. The usually illegal women there are alone and vulnerable in the middle of nowhere, completely ignored by law enforcement and indeed Never seen by anyone but their pimps and customers. Where there is demand there will be offer. Sex work is usually not a free choice or at least a desperate one. Making it illegal however only makes it worse and less safe. In the olden days the local red light ladies were known, they worked for themselves, they were greeted by everyone and were part of the fabric of the community. My grandparents lived in Amsterdam all their lives and were friendly with some of them. I fear that in a way the sex trade has also hardened and became much worse for the (men and) women in it by globalisation and large scale organisations.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Iris Violet

Romanticized false memories.

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

Not at all. I still visit one of them in her house boat every now and then. She is an elderly eccentric woman now but full of stories and certainly not a romantic memory.

But thank you for your opinion.

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

Not at all. I still visit one of them in her house boat every now and then. She is an elderly eccentric woman now but full of stories and certainly not a romantic memory.

But thank you for your opinion.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Iris Violet

Romanticized false memories.

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago

All this may be true and the seedy awful human trafficking side cannot be denied. Then again, I still do think that being in a red light window is safer than working from for instance one of the ‘puti clubs’ far from civilisation along Spanish motor ways on industrial sites (polígonos) for instance. The usually illegal women there are alone and vulnerable in the middle of nowhere, completely ignored by law enforcement and indeed Never seen by anyone but their pimps and customers. Where there is demand there will be offer. Sex work is usually not a free choice or at least a desperate one. Making it illegal however only makes it worse and less safe. In the olden days the local red light ladies were known, they worked for themselves, they were greeted by everyone and were part of the fabric of the community. My grandparents lived in Amsterdam all their lives and were friendly with some of them. I fear that in a way the sex trade has also hardened and became much worse for the (men and) women in it by globalisation and large scale organisations.

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
1 year ago

It beggars belief there are still people on this site, in this world, who can witness with their own two eyes the effects of legalization on the people and communities where it happens, and still argue that it’s just fine. It’s a bit like the unbelievable fact that after 200 years of one abject failure after another, there are somehow still self-professed Marxists out there. The Marxists and the libertines all put their faith in their ideology over the plain reality of how humans are actually made.

As they say, people get the govt they deserve. Sadly for those of us in the minority, we get the govt they deserve, too.

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
1 year ago

It beggars belief there are still people on this site, in this world, who can witness with their own two eyes the effects of legalization on the people and communities where it happens, and still argue that it’s just fine. It’s a bit like the unbelievable fact that after 200 years of one abject failure after another, there are somehow still self-professed Marxists out there. The Marxists and the libertines all put their faith in their ideology over the plain reality of how humans are actually made.

As they say, people get the govt they deserve. Sadly for those of us in the minority, we get the govt they deserve, too.

Mathilda Eklund
Mathilda Eklund
1 year ago

Anyone that knows the name of Anja’s organisation?

Mathilda Eklund
Mathilda Eklund
1 year ago

Anyone that knows the name of Anja’s organisation?

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

“Men in De Wallen have no respect for the women they ogle.” Neither do the women in the windows have any respect for themselves.

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
1 year ago

Really? I think it takes a very confident woman to stand barely dressed where everyone can see.
Not that there aren’t a lot of women who do that anyway in nightclubs or on the street.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  Bryan Dale

And you know that how??? By ogling them in windows, on the streets, in nightclubs, whilst drooling and “hardening”?

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  Bryan Dale

And you know that how??? By ogling them in windows, on the streets, in nightclubs, whilst drooling and “hardening”?

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago

You stupid uncompassionate bovine who probably prays to Djeeezus whilst in the missionary position…. Some researchers say 10% of prostitutes are trafficked; others say 90%. Even with the lower figure, 400 girls are selling sex against their will. They are essentially raped every day.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

yeh, yeh, yeh….Zzzzzzzzz

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago

Figures… you only consort with high-end London escorts, for whom you even cook dinner. How galant, how charming! Do they pay you in kind, or are they just satisfied with listening to your oh so dazzling comments…

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago

Figures… you only consort with high-end London escorts, for whom you even cook dinner. How galant, how charming! Do they pay you in kind, or are they just satisfied with listening to your oh so dazzling comments…

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

yeh, yeh, yeh….Zzzzzzzzz

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
1 year ago

Really? I think it takes a very confident woman to stand barely dressed where everyone can see.
Not that there aren’t a lot of women who do that anyway in nightclubs or on the street.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago

You stupid uncompassionate bovine who probably prays to Djeeezus whilst in the missionary position…. Some researchers say 10% of prostitutes are trafficked; others say 90%. Even with the lower figure, 400 girls are selling sex against their will. They are essentially raped every day.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

“Men in De Wallen have no respect for the women they ogle.” Neither do the women in the windows have any respect for themselves.

Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago

This article makes it sound as if the Walletjes neighborhood with its masses of horny window-shoppers and oppressed women is a brand-new phenomenon, caused by “legalisation”. But none of that is true. I can vouch that it was flourishing in the early 1960s, and had been for much longer; and that it looks worse now may well be due to the multiplying British tourists, who have gained reputations for behaving swinishly from there to Ibiza . As to legalisation, Dutch laws about human conduct are not enforced according to Anglo-American rules. Instead, when it’s obvious that people are breaking them but enforcement would be impractical, the politicians call for a “gedoogbeleid“, or a policy of tolerance, meaning: “Don’t do it, WINK-WINK”, but without necessarily changing existing laws, so that they can enforce them if things get too far out of hand. That has long been the policy toward illegal drugs, also — even though the “enforcement” part often seemed lost in some bottom drawer at City Hall.

Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago

This article makes it sound as if the Walletjes neighborhood with its masses of horny window-shoppers and oppressed women is a brand-new phenomenon, caused by “legalisation”. But none of that is true. I can vouch that it was flourishing in the early 1960s, and had been for much longer; and that it looks worse now may well be due to the multiplying British tourists, who have gained reputations for behaving swinishly from there to Ibiza . As to legalisation, Dutch laws about human conduct are not enforced according to Anglo-American rules. Instead, when it’s obvious that people are breaking them but enforcement would be impractical, the politicians call for a “gedoogbeleid“, or a policy of tolerance, meaning: “Don’t do it, WINK-WINK”, but without necessarily changing existing laws, so that they can enforce them if things get too far out of hand. That has long been the policy toward illegal drugs, also — even though the “enforcement” part often seemed lost in some bottom drawer at City Hall.

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago

The red light district may not be perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than what I’ve seen in countries where prostitution is illegal e.g. England where underage girls fall into the hands of grooming gangs or are made to stand on the streets waiting for curb crawlers. It just needs to be better regulated so that the women are in charge and not their pimps. The situation there got uglier due to the large influx of male immigrants that started to come in to the Netherlands during the 1990s from places like Eastern Europe and North Africa.
I used to work in a bar in the red light. It was one of the best experiences of my life and I met so many fascinating people from all over the world. The Dutch have quite an open attitude toward sex and I’d hate to think of Amsterdam going the same way as London or New York – once vibrant cities that are now rather tame and lackluster, catering as they do to the unadventurous type of tourists.

Nell Clover
Nell Clover
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Amsterdam’s red light district is a bright any shiny distraction from a much larger, uglier and illegal sex trade that now flourishes in the Netherlands. The legal trade serves as a front for the illegal, making policing the latter impossible. Exactly the same as drugs.

Consequently, the Netherlands is now at the centre of a global people (and drugs) trafficking network. By some estimates the Netherlands ranks 5th in global people trafficking, up there with Nigeria and Romania. It is happening in plain sight, blended with a legal industry.

Unwitting politicians and academics are often working on behalf of criminals as the huge amounts of trafficking money circulate into the legal sector to protect and preserve it and the cover it provides the illegal economy. Empathy ruthlessly exploited with an end result that is far worse than comparable countries with illegal sex industries.

Last edited 1 year ago by Nell Clover
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Nell Clover

When it comes to prositution there is crime crime; many of the communist secret service personnel joined the East European criminal gangs post 1990 which greatly increased their skills.
The reality is that we do not have a legal system and a Police Force which are capable of defeating international crime especially as many politicians are bribed by them. An example is the Pink Panthers, a crime gang which may be located in former Jugolsavia and comprising ex special forces personnel.
Pink Panthers – Wikipedia
The only time a Western Government recruited, trained people and gave them the legal powers to defeat a violent threat was when the British defeated the Communists Terrorists in Malaya.

Francisco Javier Bernal
Francisco Javier Bernal
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

State terrorism is never the answer.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago

It was not state terrorism it was a government protecting ordinary people from being murdered. Actually the Chinese Communists had been trained and armed by the British( Force 136 of the SOE) to fight the Japanese, we gave the leader an OBE in the 1940s.
One a criminal organisation has sufficient money and power it can start to bribe and threaten politicians and state employees and take over part of country; FARC in Columbia; southern Italy, parts of Mexico being good examples. The money is then laundered through grey businesses and then into clean ones.
I expect the criminal gangs which traffic women who will also be involved with drugs, guns and any criminal activity which makes money, have sufficient power in East European countries that they are more or less untouchable. Once criminal gangs are powerful they collude with terrorist gangs such as those running the cocaine business and Hezbollah and Iran in South America.
The films ” Taken ” with Neeson and ” Harry Brown ” portray what happens when criminal gangs run an area.
The victims are the young girls.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago

It was not state terrorism it was a government protecting ordinary people from being murdered. Actually the Chinese Communists had been trained and armed by the British( Force 136 of the SOE) to fight the Japanese, we gave the leader an OBE in the 1940s.
One a criminal organisation has sufficient money and power it can start to bribe and threaten politicians and state employees and take over part of country; FARC in Columbia; southern Italy, parts of Mexico being good examples. The money is then laundered through grey businesses and then into clean ones.
I expect the criminal gangs which traffic women who will also be involved with drugs, guns and any criminal activity which makes money, have sufficient power in East European countries that they are more or less untouchable. Once criminal gangs are powerful they collude with terrorist gangs such as those running the cocaine business and Hezbollah and Iran in South America.
The films ” Taken ” with Neeson and ” Harry Brown ” portray what happens when criminal gangs run an area.
The victims are the young girls.

Francisco Javier Bernal
Francisco Javier Bernal
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

State terrorism is never the answer.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Nell Clover

When it comes to prositution there is crime crime; many of the communist secret service personnel joined the East European criminal gangs post 1990 which greatly increased their skills.
The reality is that we do not have a legal system and a Police Force which are capable of defeating international crime especially as many politicians are bribed by them. An example is the Pink Panthers, a crime gang which may be located in former Jugolsavia and comprising ex special forces personnel.
Pink Panthers – Wikipedia
The only time a Western Government recruited, trained people and gave them the legal powers to defeat a violent threat was when the British defeated the Communists Terrorists in Malaya.

Mathilda Eklund
Mathilda Eklund
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

It’s the same here in amsterdam, just they hide the minors inside the brothels. Also Germany is a disaster for women with its legalisation. I’m not enjoying the clean up of the red light district either, was amazing and weird 15-20 years ago with a mad mix of locals, tourists, crazy people, junkies etc but don’t see how treating women as consumable products will restore that.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

You mean normal people. You needed to take off your rosy glasses,maybe you needed to go to Specsavers.
Why don’t you go and visit or even live in Portland Oregon,so bad even Walmart is leaving town. It’s people like you with no moral standards what so ever who destroy young women,like wot I once was.So dont pull that “don’t knock it off you haven’t tried it stunt” on me. You can pull the “ugh,you lack all moral authority” one instead.

Roland Jeffery
Roland Jeffery
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

I am surprised Julie Bindel’s article and nobody in this discussion has referred to the fact that the women seem to be mostly—on my last walk thorugh that neighbourhood, entirely—black or from ethnic minorities.
The opening quotation of the article might also read “If the Dutch government wants to groom millions of men every year into treating black and minority ethnic women as fungible commodities, Amsterdam is the best training ground they could possibly have.”

Nell Clover
Nell Clover
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Amsterdam’s red light district is a bright any shiny distraction from a much larger, uglier and illegal sex trade that now flourishes in the Netherlands. The legal trade serves as a front for the illegal, making policing the latter impossible. Exactly the same as drugs.

Consequently, the Netherlands is now at the centre of a global people (and drugs) trafficking network. By some estimates the Netherlands ranks 5th in global people trafficking, up there with Nigeria and Romania. It is happening in plain sight, blended with a legal industry.

Unwitting politicians and academics are often working on behalf of criminals as the huge amounts of trafficking money circulate into the legal sector to protect and preserve it and the cover it provides the illegal economy. Empathy ruthlessly exploited with an end result that is far worse than comparable countries with illegal sex industries.

Last edited 1 year ago by Nell Clover
Mathilda Eklund
Mathilda Eklund
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

It’s the same here in amsterdam, just they hide the minors inside the brothels. Also Germany is a disaster for women with its legalisation. I’m not enjoying the clean up of the red light district either, was amazing and weird 15-20 years ago with a mad mix of locals, tourists, crazy people, junkies etc but don’t see how treating women as consumable products will restore that.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

You mean normal people. You needed to take off your rosy glasses,maybe you needed to go to Specsavers.
Why don’t you go and visit or even live in Portland Oregon,so bad even Walmart is leaving town. It’s people like you with no moral standards what so ever who destroy young women,like wot I once was.So dont pull that “don’t knock it off you haven’t tried it stunt” on me. You can pull the “ugh,you lack all moral authority” one instead.

Roland Jeffery
Roland Jeffery
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

I am surprised Julie Bindel’s article and nobody in this discussion has referred to the fact that the women seem to be mostly—on my last walk thorugh that neighbourhood, entirely—black or from ethnic minorities.
The opening quotation of the article might also read “If the Dutch government wants to groom millions of men every year into treating black and minority ethnic women as fungible commodities, Amsterdam is the best training ground they could possibly have.”

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago

The red light district may not be perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than what I’ve seen in countries where prostitution is illegal e.g. England where underage girls fall into the hands of grooming gangs or are made to stand on the streets waiting for curb crawlers. It just needs to be better regulated so that the women are in charge and not their pimps. The situation there got uglier due to the large influx of male immigrants that started to come in to the Netherlands during the 1990s from places like Eastern Europe and North Africa.
I used to work in a bar in the red light. It was one of the best experiences of my life and I met so many fascinating people from all over the world. The Dutch have quite an open attitude toward sex and I’d hate to think of Amsterdam going the same way as London or New York – once vibrant cities that are now rather tame and lackluster, catering as they do to the unadventurous type of tourists.

Ben Shipley
Ben Shipley
1 year ago

Xavier’s was never a “notorious pimp” in Amsterdam. She was the top madam in New York, then wrote her book, and with the proceeds, opened a legit boutique hotel in Amsterdam (still there today). She was a smart, lively woman with a hilarious sense of humor and not the best place to focus one’s moral outrage.

We walked through De Wallen this year, and it is frankly a little seedy and maybe depressing for our middle class tastes, but most of the stories about gangsters are apocryphal, and the negatives are nearly all anecdotal. Drunk British tourists are the bane of capitals all over Europe. There are far worse places in the world for puritan anti-sex crusaders like Ms. Bindel to dwell on.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Shipley

I’ve heard that now EU travel is getting more expensive and problematic those Brits,those ones,are now going to Scarborough,where,of course,they are VERY welcome.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Shipley

I’ve heard that now EU travel is getting more expensive and problematic those Brits,those ones,are now going to Scarborough,where,of course,they are VERY welcome.

Ben Shipley
Ben Shipley
1 year ago

Xavier’s was never a “notorious pimp” in Amsterdam. She was the top madam in New York, then wrote her book, and with the proceeds, opened a legit boutique hotel in Amsterdam (still there today). She was a smart, lively woman with a hilarious sense of humor and not the best place to focus one’s moral outrage.

We walked through De Wallen this year, and it is frankly a little seedy and maybe depressing for our middle class tastes, but most of the stories about gangsters are apocryphal, and the negatives are nearly all anecdotal. Drunk British tourists are the bane of capitals all over Europe. There are far worse places in the world for puritan anti-sex crusaders like Ms. Bindel to dwell on.

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
1 year ago

No community will be successful when all its businesses are operating in the same trade. It makes no more sense than requiring all the coffee shops or bars be in a single neighbourhood. If prostitution is legal, it should be legal everywhere in the country, rather than being forced to cluster in a single neighbourhood.,

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Bryan Dale

It is in the Netherlands. It’s just that, much like shopping areas, the windows are located in one area of the city, but most big towns have a red light area.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Why on earth, otherwise, would anyone want to go to such a dull and tedious country? I’ve always wondered why there are no Dutch restaurants anywhere in the world? At least that makes them unique in some way!

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago

To buy weed? Easy when it’s just across the border from where you live (where you can not buy it…).

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago

To buy weed? Easy when it’s just across the border from where you live (where you can not buy it…).

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Why on earth, otherwise, would anyone want to go to such a dull and tedious country? I’ve always wondered why there are no Dutch restaurants anywhere in the world? At least that makes them unique in some way!

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Bryan Dale

It is in the Netherlands. It’s just that, much like shopping areas, the windows are located in one area of the city, but most big towns have a red light area.

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
1 year ago

No community will be successful when all its businesses are operating in the same trade. It makes no more sense than requiring all the coffee shops or bars be in a single neighbourhood. If prostitution is legal, it should be legal everywhere in the country, rather than being forced to cluster in a single neighbourhood.,

Ray Andrews
Ray Andrews
1 year ago

Where there are buyers there will be sellers. Where the sellers are is where the buyers will be. Nasty that some men treat women as pieces of meat, but then again, that’s how some women advertise themselves.

Ray Andrews
Ray Andrews
1 year ago

Where there are buyers there will be sellers. Where the sellers are is where the buyers will be. Nasty that some men treat women as pieces of meat, but then again, that’s how some women advertise themselves.

Philip Stott
Philip Stott
1 year ago

You’re wasting your time Julie.
I stayed in Haarlem (a beautiful town 20 minutes from Amsterdam) recently, and the 5* hotel there had flyers in the welcome pack for hookers.
They don’t call it the World’s oldest profession for nothing.

Last edited 1 year ago by Philip Stott
Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Philip Stott

You sound like an idiot. I’d say if you asked any hooker, the minger rating would be pretty high among male clients. Women love sex, any bloke who needs to pay for sex is self-evidently a quasi-incel, a failure as a man. And it predominantly winds up right-wing women who, quite rightly, are opposed to it on moral grounds. 

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Philip Stott

You sound like an idiot. I’d say if you asked any hooker, the minger rating would be pretty high among male clients. Women love sex, any bloke who needs to pay for sex is self-evidently a quasi-incel, a failure as a man. And it predominantly winds up right-wing women who, quite rightly, are opposed to it on moral grounds. 

Philip Stott
Philip Stott
1 year ago

You’re wasting your time Julie.
I stayed in Haarlem (a beautiful town 20 minutes from Amsterdam) recently, and the 5* hotel there had flyers in the welcome pack for hookers.
They don’t call it the World’s oldest profession for nothing.

Last edited 1 year ago by Philip Stott
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Anyone seen the LUPANAR (Brothel) in Pompeii?
If not, prepare to be ‘educated’.
“Nunc est bibendum “.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago

I have. On my first visit to Pompeii it was closed to visitors, later it was opened, I don’t know if it remained so, I haven’t been there for sometime now. As an aside, I still much prefer Herculanium as a site to visit.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Agreed, and the crowds around it are simply dreadful!
In fact it must be the most overrated building there, but still ‘they’ flock to it in droves.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Agreed, and the crowds around it are simply dreadful!
In fact it must be the most overrated building there, but still ‘they’ flock to it in droves.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago

I have. On my first visit to Pompeii it was closed to visitors, later it was opened, I don’t know if it remained so, I haven’t been there for sometime now. As an aside, I still much prefer Herculanium as a site to visit.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Anyone seen the LUPANAR (Brothel) in Pompeii?
If not, prepare to be ‘educated’.
“Nunc est bibendum “.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago

Now this is an issue? That trade has been going on, well, forever. Perhaps if there are abuses of the sex workers, more attention to that is needed.

Grace Note
Grace Note
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

No perhaps about it. There is.

Grace Note
Grace Note
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

No perhaps about it. There is.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago

Now this is an issue? That trade has been going on, well, forever. Perhaps if there are abuses of the sex workers, more attention to that is needed.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

The real problem here is the ridiculously prurient, even neurotic sexual attitude of Semitic Christianity towards copulation and nudity in general. Nothing has been the same since Eve revealed her voluptuous body in the Garden of Eden, and Adam was unable to control his priapism.*

The Ancient Greeks and Romans took a far more pragmatic view of this very ‘natural’ subject, although the Greeks views on pederasty are still somewhat beyond the pale.

(* Named after you know who?)

Arthur G
Arthur G
1 year ago

The Greeks and Romans also allowed men free sexual reign over their male and female slaves, as well as the pederasty you mention. Hardly people to look to a paragons of sexual ethics. The Christians were also the first to say that marital chastity applied equally to husband and wife. Any modern person should surely admire that attitude vs. the Greco-Romans giving complete license to male citizens at the expense of everyone else.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Arthur G

Did not Thomas Jefferson, that paragon of American virtue, exercise “ free sexual reign over his female slaves”?
No doubt he would also have done so over his male slaves had he wished to.

Arthur G
Arthur G
1 year ago

And that makes him an awful human being. Jefferson was arguably the worst of the founding fathers, with his affection for the butchery of the French Revolution. His private life was execrable. He didn’t even free his slaves upon his death, like Washington did. Not even his own children.

Last edited 1 year ago by Arthur G
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Arthur G

Then why do ‘you’ revere him so?
Thomas Paine was correct in his assessment of the hypocrisy of the so called American Revolution.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Arthur G

Then why do ‘you’ revere him so?
Thomas Paine was correct in his assessment of the hypocrisy of the so called American Revolution.

Arthur G
Arthur G
1 year ago

And that makes him an awful human being. Jefferson was arguably the worst of the founding fathers, with his affection for the butchery of the French Revolution. His private life was execrable. He didn’t even free his slaves upon his death, like Washington did. Not even his own children.

Last edited 1 year ago by Arthur G
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Arthur G

Did not Thomas Jefferson, that paragon of American virtue, exercise “ free sexual reign over his female slaves”?
No doubt he would also have done so over his male slaves had he wished to.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago

You sound as if you were about in the late 1960s to early 1970s when that was the prevailing argument in favour of SEX FOR EVERYBODY. It was specious Sophistry then and it is now.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

You presume too much Ms Baker.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

She should go back to making bread.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

She should go back to making bread.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

You presume too much Ms Baker.

Arthur G
Arthur G
1 year ago

The Greeks and Romans also allowed men free sexual reign over their male and female slaves, as well as the pederasty you mention. Hardly people to look to a paragons of sexual ethics. The Christians were also the first to say that marital chastity applied equally to husband and wife. Any modern person should surely admire that attitude vs. the Greco-Romans giving complete license to male citizens at the expense of everyone else.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago

You sound as if you were about in the late 1960s to early 1970s when that was the prevailing argument in favour of SEX FOR EVERYBODY. It was specious Sophistry then and it is now.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

The real problem here is the ridiculously prurient, even neurotic sexual attitude of Semitic Christianity towards copulation and nudity in general. Nothing has been the same since Eve revealed her voluptuous body in the Garden of Eden, and Adam was unable to control his priapism.*

The Ancient Greeks and Romans took a far more pragmatic view of this very ‘natural’ subject, although the Greeks views on pederasty are still somewhat beyond the pale.

(* Named after you know who?)