Main Edition
US
FR
In Pakistan, more than 12 children are sexually abused every day (ASIF HASSAN/AFP via Getty Images)
The first time Rahim* was raped by a family member, he was six years old. In the early Nineties, three of Rahim’s uncles immigrated from Pakistan to the small town in Southern Ontario, Canada where Rahim’s family lived. He was five years old at the time; his elder sisters were nine and 14, and his baby brother was a new-born. The sexual abuse started almost immediately. Rahim says he was raped by one of his uncles “extremely frequently” for five years: two to three times a week, every week. His sisters weren’t spared either.
When he was eight, Rahim told one of his sisters that he had seen their uncle naked on numerous occasions. Both of them realised that they, along with their other sister, were being sexually abused after their daily Quran class with him. “Each day he’d pick who gets to leave and who gets to stay,” Rahim says. “I got the worst of it.”
In the liberal West, just implying that Pakistani communities have high rates of child sexual abuse (CSA) can result in accusations of bigotry. The subject is even more unmentionable in Pakistan itself. The nation has one of the highest rates of child sexual abuse in the world: over half a million children are raped there every year. (That is a conservative estimate.) According to recent reports, children are most at risk from the age of six, with nine being the most common age to be raped.
As the grooming gang scandals erupting in the UK have shown, this permissive attitude towards CSA seems to be spreading. A new documentary by GBNews attempts to uncover why the abuse scandal in Rotherham — in which more than 1,500 underage, often impoverished, white girls were groomed and raped by gangs of Pakistani men — was allowed to go on for decades without the authorities intervening. One obvious reason is that these authorities were afraid of being seen as “racist” for focusing the investigation on the predominantly Pakistani men who are running these rings. But it’s equally important to recognise that these crimes were covered up by the Pakistani community itself, which allowed abusers to continue with impunity. The documentary shows how Pakistani-British policemen and Rotherham city councillors either tried to suppress reports about the scandal, or deny it was happening at all.
To reject the uncomfortable truth is the modus operandi in Pakistan, where more than 12 children are reported to be sexually abused every day. In the tight-knit, working-class communities where it’s most likely to take place, fear of bringing “shame” on the family is prioritised over safeguarding individuals, even if they’re children. A conservative attitude towards discussing topics of a sexual nature doesn’t help. A 2013 report by Save The Children offers an insight into how family dynamics play out when CSA is uncovered in Pakistan, where its prevalence “appears to be high”. Of the 99% of mothers in Pakistan who were aware of CSA, around one-fifth either considered children as compliant, or blamed them for the abuse. Confronted with the grizzly details of such crimes, it is common for Pakistanis to downplay their severity, with men often seeing it as “a part of life”, to use the report’s phrase.
In Rahim’s family, when the eldest sister finally told their mother that an uncle had regularly raped three of the four children in the house, Rahim’s mother didn’t believe her, instead accusing her of “being hysterical and dramatic”. When her siblings insisted that the abuse was, in fact, happening, their mother finally confronted the uncle — but didn’t mention it to Rahim’s father, a marine engineer who was away from home for up to 10 months of the year. The uncle apologised, and the abuse stopped — but just for a few months. It was only when the uncle got married and moved out that the children’s five-year ordeal finally came to an end. By then, Rahim says, the eldest sister’s “problems started manifesting because of the trauma and she started rebelling”, eventually running away from home and telling the authorities about the abuse. When Rahim’s father was told, he didn’t believe any of it was true.
We have to recognise that these attitudes are cultural, if we are to understand what happened in Rotherham. Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of The Ramadhan Foundation UK, has often commented on the over-representation of Pakistani men involved in grooming gangs in the West: “They think that white teenage girls are worthless and can be abused without a second thought.” In communities where parents are willing to sacrifice their own children in order to “keep the peace”, it’s rare for anyone to stick their neck out to speak up for the rights of poor and vulnerable white girls, who are considered outsiders. The general attitude seems to be: those non-Muslim “white slags” had it coming.
Predators exploit the high-trust environment enjoyed by citizens in more developed nations, such as the UK and Canada. Girls outside the Pakistani community are more accessible to predators because they have greater social freedom; the most accessible are those without reliable carers. One of the eeriest moments in the documentary was when a victim of the grooming gangs described what happened to her as “normal”. The sexual abuse of young girls like her was so commonplace in these towns, they didn’t think it was unusual to be drugged, gang raped, and trafficked by young men who passed themselves off as the girls’ boyfriends. Is this what a multicultural society is supposed to tolerate under the guise of “social cohesion”?
Join the discussion
Join like minded readers that support our journalism by becoming a paid subscriber
To join the discussion in the comments, become a paid subscriber.
Join like minded readers that support our journalism, read unlimited articles and enjoy other subscriber-only benefits.
SubscribeThe courage required to write this article shouldn’t be underestimated. The cover-up culture to preserve “honour” will undoubtedly create a backlash against those who speak out, but it’s so absolutely vital that these attitudes and mores are brought into the light of day.
By contrast, the cowardice of authorities in the UK and elsewhere means they’re complicit in these acts, every bit as much as if they were driving around in the flash cars beckoning to the young girls themselves. (Yes, that’s how it often happens, i’ve seen it with my own eyes.) And where the finances came from to buy such cars, driven by young men, is never questioned or investigated either.
Hina writes: They see any of us who try to tackle this problem as siding with the white ‘enemy’.
That’s what we are to the communities that harbour these criminals. The enemy. Note: not my words, but the words of those from within the Pakistani community.
It also appears that Pakistani-British policeman have been able to infiltrate our forces, and i’ve little doubt that at least some of them may have done so as a deliberate ploy to help keep the crimes of their ethnic communities from being properly investigated. Meanwhile, the Diversity sections of police forces will pride themselves on their recruitment, totally oblivious to the insidious effects of their efforts in aiding and abetting serious abuse.
Rotherham is of course, just one of the dozens of communities across the length and breath of the UK where this has happened. I do wonder sometimes whether continually using this town as a reference has the effect of inducing a belief that it’s only a limited number of mainly working class places where the grooming takes place, and that it’s therefore relatively confined. I think when the full extent of this is brought into the open, we’ll find it happening in every single city, town and village with a Pakistani community.
Let me be clear. I’ve known plenty of Pakistanis and worked alongside them during my career. As individuals, they’re often very intelligent and easy to get along with – charming, in fact. It’s the religious and cultural sphere in which they live that causes these issues, plus the refusal of many in their communities to mix with “the enemy”. So i’m not tarring all Pakistanis with the same brush by any means, but those who don’t speak out are complicit. The threat of social or physical harm is extremely powerful though – it’s that which must be overcome. Only through articles such as these will that ever even begin to happen, and the writer demonstrates that it is possible to take that first step.
Good comment. And of course when people complain about cultural change, they are called racist. When people complain about their children being abused – they are called racist.
This country is fast heading for the Reckoning of all time
Its not just sex abuse, there is drug dealing, money laundering, fraud, benefit fraud an tax evasion
Polygamy, child marriage, first cousin marriage etc
Polygamy, child marriage, first cousin marriage etc
They strain at the knat and swallow the camel so to speak.
Its not just sex abuse, there is drug dealing, money laundering, fraud, benefit fraud an tax evasion
They strain at the knat and swallow the camel so to speak.
“Sixteen men including a police officer have been charged with historical sex offences against children aged between 13 and 16 West Yorkshire PC Amjad Ditta, also known as Amjad Hussain, 35, has been charged with sexual touching.He and 15 other men are charged with offences against three girls in the Halifax area, dating from 2006 to 2009.The allegations include several counts of rape, sexual assault, supplying drugs and trafficking. Mr Ditta, who was attached to West Yorkshire Police’s Protective Services Operations, was a serving officer at the time of the offence he has been accused of.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50838823
Looks like the police don’t care who they employ. No wonder corruption is endemic in the police. When will the reckoning be.
Looks like the police don’t care who they employ. No wonder corruption is endemic in the police. When will the reckoning be.
That is an excellent opening comment. Among many other issues, this timely article poses the question, “Is this (prevalence of Pakistani grooming gangs) what a multicultural society is supposed to tolerate under the guise of ‘social cohesion’?” Pathetically, it seems that the current answer would be “Yes, it is”. But this has to change.
It is not racist to charge rapists whoever they are.
It is not racist to charge rapists whoever they are.
Good comment. And of course when people complain about cultural change, they are called racist. When people complain about their children being abused – they are called racist.
This country is fast heading for the Reckoning of all time
“Sixteen men including a police officer have been charged with historical sex offences against children aged between 13 and 16 West Yorkshire PC Amjad Ditta, also known as Amjad Hussain, 35, has been charged with sexual touching.He and 15 other men are charged with offences against three girls in the Halifax area, dating from 2006 to 2009.The allegations include several counts of rape, sexual assault, supplying drugs and trafficking. Mr Ditta, who was attached to West Yorkshire Police’s Protective Services Operations, was a serving officer at the time of the offence he has been accused of.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50838823
That is an excellent opening comment. Among many other issues, this timely article poses the question, “Is this (prevalence of Pakistani grooming gangs) what a multicultural society is supposed to tolerate under the guise of ‘social cohesion’?” Pathetically, it seems that the current answer would be “Yes, it is”. But this has to change.
The courage required to write this article shouldn’t be underestimated. The cover-up culture to preserve “honour” will undoubtedly create a backlash against those who speak out, but it’s so absolutely vital that these attitudes and mores are brought into the light of day.
By contrast, the cowardice of authorities in the UK and elsewhere means they’re complicit in these acts, every bit as much as if they were driving around in the flash cars beckoning to the young girls themselves. (Yes, that’s how it often happens, i’ve seen it with my own eyes.) And where the finances came from to buy such cars, driven by young men, is never questioned or investigated either.
Hina writes: They see any of us who try to tackle this problem as siding with the white ‘enemy’.
That’s what we are to the communities that harbour these criminals. The enemy. Note: not my words, but the words of those from within the Pakistani community.
It also appears that Pakistani-British policeman have been able to infiltrate our forces, and i’ve little doubt that at least some of them may have done so as a deliberate ploy to help keep the crimes of their ethnic communities from being properly investigated. Meanwhile, the Diversity sections of police forces will pride themselves on their recruitment, totally oblivious to the insidious effects of their efforts in aiding and abetting serious abuse.
Rotherham is of course, just one of the dozens of communities across the length and breath of the UK where this has happened. I do wonder sometimes whether continually using this town as a reference has the effect of inducing a belief that it’s only a limited number of mainly working class places where the grooming takes place, and that it’s therefore relatively confined. I think when the full extent of this is brought into the open, we’ll find it happening in every single city, town and village with a Pakistani community.
Let me be clear. I’ve known plenty of Pakistanis and worked alongside them during my career. As individuals, they’re often very intelligent and easy to get along with – charming, in fact. It’s the religious and cultural sphere in which they live that causes these issues, plus the refusal of many in their communities to mix with “the enemy”. So i’m not tarring all Pakistanis with the same brush by any means, but those who don’t speak out are complicit. The threat of social or physical harm is extremely powerful though – it’s that which must be overcome. Only through articles such as these will that ever even begin to happen, and the writer demonstrates that it is possible to take that first step.
Rotherham is the tip of the iceberg. Telford, Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford, Hull, Dewsbury, Slough, Leicester, Birmingham, London, Oldham, Luton, Manchester, Burnley, Bury, Rochdale, Barnsley, Bolton, Middlesbrough to name but a few, have all had serious incidents of predominately Pakistani/Indian grooming gangs operating with relative impunity raping and abusing mainly young, vulnerable white girls. However, I suspect, in equal measure, girls within their own communities, hidden behind the veil, are also victims, possibly, even more so.
Where are the feminists and the social justice “activists”? Where is the outcry from social services? Why aren’t the identity politics ideologues out in force championing the rights of the thousands of victims subjected to horrendous abuse? They are nowhere to be seen.
Unfortunately, standing up for young white females does not sit very well with their vile, pernicious political narratives; these poor young women are an inconvenience at almost every level for the ‘captured’ warriors of the culture wars, which in itself highlights the extreme threat and dangers the trappings of identity politics and its puritanical doctrines, poses to society as a whole. It’s appalling that so many people have had to suffer at the expense of political correctness.
The only thing our severely overstretched social services can do is remove the girls from the area. Unfortunately, many of the girls will become habitual absconders in order to return to the area which means (if they’re lucky) they end up in secure units. In effect, we’re more likely to end up imprisoning the victims. Tbf though, often it’s the only way to protect them and ensure they get the help they need.
I have seen articles on the TV where Pakistani families have been complaining about white prostitutes on the street. Rightly so but it is very hypocritical to cover up the raping of our girls.
I have seen articles on the TV where Pakistani families have been complaining about white prostitutes on the street. Rightly so but it is very hypocritical to cover up the raping of our girls.
I’m in Sussex, and in a comment the other day I spoke about multiple situations of this nature I have some personal link to and was accused by one commenter of making it up, because seemingly it is easier for some people to live in denial of the extent of this problem in poor communities than to be confronted with the reality that pretty much everyone in deprived communities knows at least one person who has been subjected to this kind of abuse.
Now in the cases I spoke about, only one of the perpetrators was from the Pakistani demographic, one of the others was from Sierra Leone, which is another region known to have some very serious issues with gender based violence, yet it took years of endless reports being made to police by girls and their families before that predator was removed from the streets, and is now back in the community again, having served around half of the sentence he received.
As usual, the same lessons are not learned by the authorities who are supposed to be keeping our communities and our children safe from these predatory human beings. Cultural norms do have an effect on this kind of predatory behaviour, and sticking our heads in the sand about this is only enabling these predators to access more victims. Time to grow some spines and start prioritising reality over the whims of ideologues who care more for their ideals than the lives of poor children.
The BBC and the mainstream papers have spent much ink on dregs like Shamima Begam and not spent even a fraction of the time on the very eloquent women survivors of this disgraceful national scandal. Why is that?
Look at the overall composition of BBC staff members, look at the real ethos of the BBC (not the mealy mouthed claims they make about neutrality), and look at the political leanings of those who support the continued existence of it and the licence fee, and you have your answer.
It is not within their interests to challenge the ideals of their staff members and supporters.
Diversity and inclusiveness trumps all.
And misogyny. I’m sure boys are trafficked but one wonders if the response would be different if it was predominately young males. The uncle didn’t seem to have a preference but we don’t know how common that is.
And misogyny. I’m sure boys are trafficked but one wonders if the response would be different if it was predominately young males. The uncle didn’t seem to have a preference but we don’t know how common that is.
Because of institutional anti-white racism.
You are wrong : anti-white racism is an oxymoron. It doesn’t exist.
Like antipathy between Africans and Asians. That’s not racism either.
Perhaps the sarcasm didn’t come across? My bad.
It came across just fine – some people are concrete thinkers, humour confuses them
It can be quite difficult to tell on the printed page, seeing as there really are some disgusting woke scum who claim that white people can’t be victims of racism. At any rate, I for one appreciate John Solomon taking the trouble to make it clear that he isn’t one of those our souls.
I wish people wouldn’t use “woke’ as a catch all euphamism for things they are unable to actually articulate, because of laziness or lack of intellect or both. It’s become a meaningless put down word for anything the user dislikes.
I wish people wouldn’t use “woke’ as a catch all euphamism for things they are unable to actually articulate, because of laziness or lack of intellect or both. It’s become a meaningless put down word for anything the user dislikes.
It can be quite difficult to tell on the printed page, seeing as there really are some disgusting woke scum who claim that white people can’t be victims of racism. At any rate, I for one appreciate John Solomon taking the trouble to make it clear that he isn’t one of those our souls.
Is it our country or theirs? We know we should be friendly to legal immigrants but speaking against the natural race of this country doesn’t help for cohesion. The BBC are too far gone now to bother to critisise them.
It came across just fine – some people are concrete thinkers, humour confuses them
Is it our country or theirs? We know we should be friendly to legal immigrants but speaking against the natural race of this country doesn’t help for cohesion. The BBC are too far gone now to bother to critisise them.
Perhaps the sarcasm didn’t come across? My bad.
You are wrong : anti-white racism is an oxymoron. It doesn’t exist.
Like antipathy between Africans and Asians. That’s not racism either.
Money. The narrative of Islamophobia generates revenues. There are more than 50 muslim countries in the world to sell their programmes to.
Well that’s the BBC isn’t it. There are better newscasters like GB News for instance.
Because they’re women.
Look at the overall composition of BBC staff members, look at the real ethos of the BBC (not the mealy mouthed claims they make about neutrality), and look at the political leanings of those who support the continued existence of it and the licence fee, and you have your answer.
It is not within their interests to challenge the ideals of their staff members and supporters.
Diversity and inclusiveness trumps all.
Because of institutional anti-white racism.
Money. The narrative of Islamophobia generates revenues. There are more than 50 muslim countries in the world to sell their programmes to.
Well that’s the BBC isn’t it. There are better newscasters like GB News for instance.
Because they’re women.
There can be too much ‘diversity’
I accused you of making it up. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you taking the piss before. Im pretty sure your posts are plastic. I can’t prove that. But I can call you out. My mum does come from a council house. You don’t sound like one of me. ‘Whims of idealogues’….. Really. Street.
The Rotherham scandal is disgraceful, but if anyone cared about these girls in the first place this wouldn’t have happened. Yes this is a problem. My problem is people using working class girls they wouldn’t normally think twice about, to have a good rant about races of people they don’t like. And there’s plenty of those on here. And that’s what I think your game is. Thats what I don’t like. Apparently lindsay above thinks imprisoning these girls is the only way to protect them, how. Insane.
Anyway. I’ll leave you to it. Now I’ve made myself clear. I shall leave you alone in future, I won’t bother you again.
So because I speak like someone who has multiple degrees (and I do have multiple degrees), that must mean I cannot be from a deprived area, and cannot have also grown up as a recipient of free school meals raised by a single parent?
I am disabled, yes, I am well educated, but no amount of education can undo my disability, thus I remain living in a poor area, because nice areas don’t tend to like housing people who rely on disability benefits to top up their part time wages, and tend to be well beyond the price range of those like me.
I do enjoy having random strangers assume I am racist simply because my language use doesn’t fit their own very narrow stereotypes of who does and doesn’t live in deprived areas.
Don’t you mean that that you “don’t” enjoy random strangers….? By the way you sound awfullu defensive.
Don’t you mean that that you “don’t” enjoy random strangers….? By the way you sound awfullu defensive.
You’ve made yourself only too clear. What a neat reversal to blame mass rape of “white enemy” working class girls on people who should have “cared” for these girls. The responsibility for these rapes lies fairly and squarely with the, Pakistani for the most part, rapists, and those that cover for them. I’m “calling you out” (yuk) for moral relativism.
You assume I have no experience of anything like this and no reason to care. You go with what you like. Call me what you like. Like I say. I’m done.
I’d like to know how many years you have to spend living on a university campus to get ‘multiple degrees’ I have to say.
You assume I have no experience of anything like this and no reason to care. You go with what you like. Call me what you like. Like I say. I’m done.
I’d like to know how many years you have to spend living on a university campus to get ‘multiple degrees’ I have to say.
I would actually prefer the perpetrators to be deported or imprisoned however they have rights too and the wheels of justice is slow. From experience of working in residential childcare, I know that many of these girls DO NOT want to be taken out of area and WILL continually run away to return to area, which results in them being placed under DoLs orders (deprivation of liberty) which often means being placed in secure units, which I think we all agree is better than them returning to their abusers to be trafficked out of our reach. Do you disagree?
So, because the ‘wheels of justice’ are failing your alternative is to take these girls, who have already suffered, away from friends, families and their community and when they try and go back home you lock them in a secure unit. Deprive them of their liberty. At a time when they should be out starting their life?
Im not sure I have any words.
It’s not “my” alternative. What is your alternative? You’re very critical of the system, however you don’t offer any constructive solutions. How do you suggest we protect girls, that in many cases, do not want protection? Do not think that they need it and will go to extreme lengths to avoid it.
I’ve described an alternative above. I feel sure if it was presented as a way out of a life of poverty and abuse the majority would go for it. Whether there would be the money available for these social services is another matter.
I’ve described an alternative above. I feel sure if it was presented as a way out of a life of poverty and abuse the majority would go for it. Whether there would be the money available for these social services is another matter.
Families don’t seem to care that much to leave them vulnerable in the streets. A compromise would be a secure unit where they can be kept an eye on.
I see you are all still going.
First. They would not be vulnerable in the street if we fixed the wheels of justice, if the street isn’t safe that is not their fault. Should we lock our children inside? If you knew anything about the Rotherham scandal you would know one of the girls fathers took it up with the police in the first place.
Next. Equating protection and prison in this way for victims of crime is something I find a very strange concept. You obviously see no value in the girls links to their communities, which I think shows you do not understand or value the community they come from.
Next. Surely it would be better to spend the time money and people and facilities on locking up the criminals not the victims.
Just wharehousing people without the opportunity for them to change their lives, is absurd.
I see you are all still going.
First. They would not be vulnerable in the street if we fixed the wheels of justice, if the street isn’t safe that is not their fault. Should we lock our children inside? If you knew anything about the Rotherham scandal you would know one of the girls fathers took it up with the police in the first place.
Next. Equating protection and prison in this way for victims of crime is something I find a very strange concept. You obviously see no value in the girls links to their communities, which I think shows you do not understand or value the community they come from.
Next. Surely it would be better to spend the time money and people and facilities on locking up the criminals not the victims.
Just wharehousing people without the opportunity for them to change their lives, is absurd.
It’s not “my” alternative. What is your alternative? You’re very critical of the system, however you don’t offer any constructive solutions. How do you suggest we protect girls, that in many cases, do not want protection? Do not think that they need it and will go to extreme lengths to avoid it.
Families don’t seem to care that much to leave them vulnerable in the streets. A compromise would be a secure unit where they can be kept an eye on.
Are the wheels of justice even running on this matter let alone slow?
The same could be asked of any r@pe case. Early on they’re notoriously difficult to prove so little is done until you have a large number of people saying the same thing and that can take years because so many feel they can’t say anything or there is no point. Then there is police force themselves. The last inquiries into child deaths (Star and Arthur) found the police to be at fault when it came to multi agency sharing of information (basically they didn’t). The police seem to be more adept at following up on social media hate crimes than actual crimes.
The same could be asked of any r@pe case. Early on they’re notoriously difficult to prove so little is done until you have a large number of people saying the same thing and that can take years because so many feel they can’t say anything or there is no point. Then there is police force themselves. The last inquiries into child deaths (Star and Arthur) found the police to be at fault when it came to multi agency sharing of information (basically they didn’t). The police seem to be more adept at following up on social media hate crimes than actual crimes.
Are there only two alternatives. Can’t these girls be taught self-empowerment and self-worth which is obviously lacking. If a residence could be set up to house them and educate them to have self-respect along with job training.
So, because the ‘wheels of justice’ are failing your alternative is to take these girls, who have already suffered, away from friends, families and their community and when they try and go back home you lock them in a secure unit. Deprive them of their liberty. At a time when they should be out starting their life?
Im not sure I have any words.
Are the wheels of justice even running on this matter let alone slow?
Are there only two alternatives. Can’t these girls be taught self-empowerment and self-worth which is obviously lacking. If a residence could be set up to house them and educate them to have self-respect along with job training.
So because I speak like someone who has multiple degrees (and I do have multiple degrees), that must mean I cannot be from a deprived area, and cannot have also grown up as a recipient of free school meals raised by a single parent?
I am disabled, yes, I am well educated, but no amount of education can undo my disability, thus I remain living in a poor area, because nice areas don’t tend to like housing people who rely on disability benefits to top up their part time wages, and tend to be well beyond the price range of those like me.
I do enjoy having random strangers assume I am racist simply because my language use doesn’t fit their own very narrow stereotypes of who does and doesn’t live in deprived areas.
You’ve made yourself only too clear. What a neat reversal to blame mass rape of “white enemy” working class girls on people who should have “cared” for these girls. The responsibility for these rapes lies fairly and squarely with the, Pakistani for the most part, rapists, and those that cover for them. I’m “calling you out” (yuk) for moral relativism.
I would actually prefer the perpetrators to be deported or imprisoned however they have rights too and the wheels of justice is slow. From experience of working in residential childcare, I know that many of these girls DO NOT want to be taken out of area and WILL continually run away to return to area, which results in them being placed under DoLs orders (deprivation of liberty) which often means being placed in secure units, which I think we all agree is better than them returning to their abusers to be trafficked out of our reach. Do you disagree?
The BBC and the mainstream papers have spent much ink on dregs like Shamima Begam and not spent even a fraction of the time on the very eloquent women survivors of this disgraceful national scandal. Why is that?
There can be too much ‘diversity’
I accused you of making it up. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you taking the piss before. Im pretty sure your posts are plastic. I can’t prove that. But I can call you out. My mum does come from a council house. You don’t sound like one of me. ‘Whims of idealogues’….. Really. Street.
The Rotherham scandal is disgraceful, but if anyone cared about these girls in the first place this wouldn’t have happened. Yes this is a problem. My problem is people using working class girls they wouldn’t normally think twice about, to have a good rant about races of people they don’t like. And there’s plenty of those on here. And that’s what I think your game is. Thats what I don’t like. Apparently lindsay above thinks imprisoning these girls is the only way to protect them, how. Insane.
Anyway. I’ll leave you to it. Now I’ve made myself clear. I shall leave you alone in future, I won’t bother you again.
There was a triggernometry interview just last night with one survivor, Samantha Smith, of Telford that was truly inspiring. Very clear and articulate summary of the issue and the establishment’s weaknesses. Also chilling to realise that it is still ongoing and not quite historical.
https://youtu.be/zRuK5wPd_Fc
Obvious solution is to stop mass imigration, especially from shit countries like Pakistan.
I fail to see how they benefit uk, apart from curry houses.
But none of the political parties likely to form governments is proposing anything to stop these useless, low IQ savages from settling in the West.
The kind of people you describe always misconstrue the term “multicultural society”, blithely assuming that upon resettling in the UK, they can continue with exactly the same cultural practices they “enjoyed” in their country of origin. Sadly, the prevalence of PC/woke attitudes in this country, does little or nothing to disabuse them of that misconception. Thus the horrors proliferate.
I watch CNN and there is a female Iranian British reporter who wears a higab and reports on the oppression of women in iran. she pisses me off whenever I see her. She’s rather smug, but apart from that it seems so hypocritical to wear a scarf that signifys submission to the brutal patriachy that she’s, apparently, opposed to. It’s seems so cowardly. Bravery is what’s needed to fight the sordid abuses and moral blackmail that Islam inflicts around the world.
I watch CNN and there is a female Iranian British reporter who wears a higab and reports on the oppression of women in iran. she pisses me off whenever I see her. She’s rather smug, but apart from that it seems so hypocritical to wear a scarf that signifys submission to the brutal patriachy that she’s, apparently, opposed to. It’s seems so cowardly. Bravery is what’s needed to fight the sordid abuses and moral blackmail that Islam inflicts around the world.
The kind of people you describe always misconstrue the term “multicultural society”, blithely assuming that upon resettling in the UK, they can continue with exactly the same cultural practices they “enjoyed” in their country of origin. Sadly, the prevalence of PC/woke attitudes in this country, does little or nothing to disabuse them of that misconception. Thus the horrors proliferate.
Astonishingly you should add Oxford to that list!
Why blame feminists for rapes that only-ever men are committing?
EXACTLY!!
EXACTLY!!
The tories have had plenty of time to sort it out but have done nothing.
“have all had serious incidents of predominately Pakistani/Indian grooming gangs”. Clubbing British Indians with British Pakistanis is misleading and very BBC like tactic. BBC calls these criminals as vague ‘British Asians’ in headlines in order to hide their Pakistani muslim identity. Have you seen instances of a British-Indian/British-Hindu involved in grooming gangs ? None as far as i know. If anything, there are instances of Hindu girls themselves being victims of Pakistani grooming gangs. Pakistani grooming gangs also tend to be Islamist gangs and for their mindset any non-muslim young girl is a fair game since they come from ‘enemy group’.
Well said: Indian Hindus must and should not be confused with muslims and Pakistanis.
So who are the men who rape the hundreds of women in india?
So who are the men who rape the hundreds of women in india?
Well said: Indian Hindus must and should not be confused with muslims and Pakistanis.
The only thing our severely overstretched social services can do is remove the girls from the area. Unfortunately, many of the girls will become habitual absconders in order to return to the area which means (if they’re lucky) they end up in secure units. In effect, we’re more likely to end up imprisoning the victims. Tbf though, often it’s the only way to protect them and ensure they get the help they need.
I’m in Sussex, and in a comment the other day I spoke about multiple situations of this nature I have some personal link to and was accused by one commenter of making it up, because seemingly it is easier for some people to live in denial of the extent of this problem in poor communities than to be confronted with the reality that pretty much everyone in deprived communities knows at least one person who has been subjected to this kind of abuse.
Now in the cases I spoke about, only one of the perpetrators was from the Pakistani demographic, one of the others was from Sierra Leone, which is another region known to have some very serious issues with gender based violence, yet it took years of endless reports being made to police by girls and their families before that predator was removed from the streets, and is now back in the community again, having served around half of the sentence he received.
As usual, the same lessons are not learned by the authorities who are supposed to be keeping our communities and our children safe from these predatory human beings. Cultural norms do have an effect on this kind of predatory behaviour, and sticking our heads in the sand about this is only enabling these predators to access more victims. Time to grow some spines and start prioritising reality over the whims of ideologues who care more for their ideals than the lives of poor children.
There was a triggernometry interview just last night with one survivor, Samantha Smith, of Telford that was truly inspiring. Very clear and articulate summary of the issue and the establishment’s weaknesses. Also chilling to realise that it is still ongoing and not quite historical.
https://youtu.be/zRuK5wPd_Fc
Obvious solution is to stop mass imigration, especially from shit countries like Pakistan.
I fail to see how they benefit uk, apart from curry houses.
But none of the political parties likely to form governments is proposing anything to stop these useless, low IQ savages from settling in the West.
Astonishingly you should add Oxford to that list!
Why blame feminists for rapes that only-ever men are committing?
The tories have had plenty of time to sort it out but have done nothing.
“have all had serious incidents of predominately Pakistani/Indian grooming gangs”. Clubbing British Indians with British Pakistanis is misleading and very BBC like tactic. BBC calls these criminals as vague ‘British Asians’ in headlines in order to hide their Pakistani muslim identity. Have you seen instances of a British-Indian/British-Hindu involved in grooming gangs ? None as far as i know. If anything, there are instances of Hindu girls themselves being victims of Pakistani grooming gangs. Pakistani grooming gangs also tend to be Islamist gangs and for their mindset any non-muslim young girl is a fair game since they come from ‘enemy group’.
Rotherham is the tip of the iceberg. Telford, Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford, Hull, Dewsbury, Slough, Leicester, Birmingham, London, Oldham, Luton, Manchester, Burnley, Bury, Rochdale, Barnsley, Bolton, Middlesbrough to name but a few, have all had serious incidents of predominately Pakistani/Indian grooming gangs operating with relative impunity raping and abusing mainly young, vulnerable white girls. However, I suspect, in equal measure, girls within their own communities, hidden behind the veil, are also victims, possibly, even more so.
Where are the feminists and the social justice “activists”? Where is the outcry from social services? Why aren’t the identity politics ideologues out in force championing the rights of the thousands of victims subjected to horrendous abuse? They are nowhere to be seen.
Unfortunately, standing up for young white females does not sit very well with their vile, pernicious political narratives; these poor young women are an inconvenience at almost every level for the ‘captured’ warriors of the culture wars, which in itself highlights the extreme threat and dangers the trappings of identity politics and its puritanical doctrines, poses to society as a whole. It’s appalling that so many people have had to suffer at the expense of political correctness.
I’m much more concerned by the willingness of police and public authorities to enable this activity. It’s just another of the ways that our governing class has been utterly corrupted by relativism.
In one of the cases in my area I have referenced here and previously in comments, a former mayor of the town involved was implicated in forging documents and lying about the legal status of the predator he rented property to, and for allowing the sexual exploitation of young girls to happen there.
This pattern is repeated across the country, and not just in the “multicultural” abuse rings, the same thing has happened in the care system of this country for decades, where those charged with protecting children have actively enabled abuse, and even been the abusers in some examples. Our government provisions for child protection are like so many other things in our crumbling society not fit for purpose, and in dire need of tangible reform, not more lessons will be learned rhetoric.
In one of the cases in my area I have referenced here and previously in comments, a former mayor of the town involved was implicated in forging documents and lying about the legal status of the predator he rented property to, and for allowing the sexual exploitation of young girls to happen there.
This pattern is repeated across the country, and not just in the “multicultural” abuse rings, the same thing has happened in the care system of this country for decades, where those charged with protecting children have actively enabled abuse, and even been the abusers in some examples. Our government provisions for child protection are like so many other things in our crumbling society not fit for purpose, and in dire need of tangible reform, not more lessons will be learned rhetoric.
I’m much more concerned by the willingness of police and public authorities to enable this activity. It’s just another of the ways that our governing class has been utterly corrupted by relativism.
All of this article fills me with disgust, but the worst point is this:
“Unfortunately, the Pakistani community is still not ready to talk about CSA — a fact recognised by those few British Pakistanis who have spoken out against it. Shame and honour codes hold too much power…”
It’s “honour” is it, that makes it possible for these perverts to carry on at almost no risk to themselves?
The article links to an article quoting a so-called ‘child rights activist’ who claims 550000 children are sexually abused in Pakistan every year and also claims 1 billion children are abused globally. He provides no evidence for either claim. The entire article is hearsay. No doubt child sexual abuse occurs among Pakistanis but no evidence is provided to show its occurrence relative to other races. Her ‘evidence’ consists entirely of pulling at heartstrings and pandering to prejudices against Muslims and Pakistanis.
I’m guessing you work in child “protection” somewhere like Rotherham.
What on earth are you on about ? Are you wilfully ignorant or is it your default setting ? This vile abuse has been documented in great detail. It’s nothing to do with prejudices against minority groups you fool.
He really is disgusting isn’t he.
I’m ‘disgusting’ for asking for evidence for her claims?
Do your own reasearch. Become informed.
Do your own reasearch. Become informed.
I’m ‘disgusting’ for asking for evidence for her claims?
I am referring to her figure of 550,000 children abused annually in Pakistan. Click on the links she provides, they provide no evidence to back it up.
Right on!!
He really is disgusting isn’t he.
I am referring to her figure of 550,000 children abused annually in Pakistan. Click on the links she provides, they provide no evidence to back it up.
Right on!!
To paraphrase: I regret that I have only one down vote to give you.
Why? Is it wrong to ask for evidence for her claims?
Do your own research if you’re genuinely interested in facts and truth, but you seem more interested in the fight.
Do your own research if you’re genuinely interested in facts and truth, but you seem more interested in the fight.
Why? Is it wrong to ask for evidence for her claims?
To refute the article successfully you need to provide some evidence against it.
I have no basis on which to refute her claims. Just as she has provided no basis on which to establish them. She’s relying on pulling at heartstrings and on prejudice against Muslims and Pakistanis to get a response, and it has worked.
You could educate yourself and then engage in informed discourse instead of just trying to invalidate comments with accusations of racism, which is so easy to do without actually saying anything intelligent.
You could educate yourself and then engage in informed discourse instead of just trying to invalidate comments with accusations of racism, which is so easy to do without actually saying anything intelligent.
Exactly!
I have no basis on which to refute her claims. Just as she has provided no basis on which to establish them. She’s relying on pulling at heartstrings and on prejudice against Muslims and Pakistanis to get a response, and it has worked.
Exactly!
Nah.
I’m guessing you work in child “protection” somewhere like Rotherham.
What on earth are you on about ? Are you wilfully ignorant or is it your default setting ? This vile abuse has been documented in great detail. It’s nothing to do with prejudices against minority groups you fool.
To paraphrase: I regret that I have only one down vote to give you.
To refute the article successfully you need to provide some evidence against it.
Nah.
It’s the honour thing when it occures in families.
The article links to an article quoting a so-called ‘child rights activist’ who claims 550000 children are sexually abused in Pakistan every year and also claims 1 billion children are abused globally. He provides no evidence for either claim. The entire article is hearsay. No doubt child sexual abuse occurs among Pakistanis but no evidence is provided to show its occurrence relative to other races. Her ‘evidence’ consists entirely of pulling at heartstrings and pandering to prejudices against Muslims and Pakistanis.
It’s the honour thing when it occures in families.
All of this article fills me with disgust, but the worst point is this:
“Unfortunately, the Pakistani community is still not ready to talk about CSA — a fact recognised by those few British Pakistanis who have spoken out against it. Shame and honour codes hold too much power…”
It’s “honour” is it, that makes it possible for these perverts to carry on at almost no risk to themselves?
Great article – honest and brave. Question: At what point is it permissible for countries to adopt selective immigration policies? The drivers of social-cohesion/fragmentation and of tribalism/integration are pretty clear. If you wanted to design a system that would maximize economic gains, minimize harms and foster integration, then unskilled, rural, working class muslim immigration from Pakistan would be bottom of the list, along with Albanians and Afghans. Ukrainians, Syriac and African Christians and skilled Indian Sikhs/Hindus might move closer to the top. On the other hand, if human rights and responding to need was the primary consideration, then Pakistani Muslims (and especially women) and refugees from Afghanistan might move closer to the top. The other obvious question is who gets to decide? Highly paid, highly educated members of the social policy literati who tend not to live in places like Rotherham and Telford, but Chorlton/Didsbury in Manchester or probably 250 miles south in Islington; or working class people in old mill towns who are routinely cast as the villains in the Brexit/white supremacy/decolonization narrative that has become the default survey course in most university humanities and social science programmes. Should immigration be designed primarily to benefit the country, or to respond to human need.These are legitimate questions which the political class and the mainstream media both seem intent on avoiding. We do need a debate.
An excellent analysis of the question as to whom we prioritise in out immigration policy. I think we need to be hard headed about prioritising those that will benefit the UK and those that will integrate best.
I upvoted you and Stephen but it is still skirting the main issue.
Even if Indians have higher IQ and are hard working, do we really want to commit ethic and cultural suicide by allowing mass immigration?
Just quick qoogle search would show that India is not without serious ethic problems.
As to Africans in general, please explain how low IQ, violent people would benefit uk?
We already see results on streets of London, daily.
In general, I agree, Although not with the low IQ piece. Nigerians and Kenyans tend to have much better economic success than media whites in the US and the UK – and for the same reasons as Asians – family cohesion + the case of Africans, Christianity. Most of what you see on the streets of London ethnically quite specific – as it is in Sweden. So the issue relates to culture and religion. I have no problem with secular universalists prioritizing some sense of universal personhood and human rights – as long as they are absolutely unflinching and honest about the difficulties and consequences; and as long as they also enforce policies to ensure that the spatial/geographical burden lands disproportionately on the elite groups that push these policies. Somehow I doubt that when push comes to shove, they will accept these costs. However, if Judeo-Christianity and a virtue-ethical culture is the key to social cohesion – and I believe it is – then conservative responses to immigration (reduction/selection) are only legitimate / coherent to the extent that those same conservatives go back to church, take their kids (and have more kids)… and push Christian (or Jewish) values in the warp and weft of the culture. There is no materialist/market-liberal/libertarian perspective that can legitimately critique immigration. And if Christianity is the key to a culture at peace- then I have much more in common with a Nigerian catholic than I do with either a secular, materialist, Neo-liberal pseudo conservative, a woke-liberal consumer-individualist or a secular , working class nationalist/populist. There is a good case to be made for radically restriction/selection.. but for my money, it’s about Christendom and if it doesn’t start from the Imago Dei – the conviction in Genesis that we are created in the image of God, then it’s pointless. AOC, Richard Spencer , Dave Rubin and the Koch Foundation are all on the same team as far as I’m concerned.
I wonder about the economic success of Nigerians. The men seem to have a reputation for scaming elderly women out of their life savings.
I wonder about the economic success of Nigerians. The men seem to have a reputation for scaming elderly women out of their life savings.
In general, I agree, Although not with the low IQ piece. Nigerians and Kenyans tend to have much better economic success than media whites in the US and the UK – and for the same reasons as Asians – family cohesion + the case of Africans, Christianity. Most of what you see on the streets of London ethnically quite specific – as it is in Sweden. So the issue relates to culture and religion. I have no problem with secular universalists prioritizing some sense of universal personhood and human rights – as long as they are absolutely unflinching and honest about the difficulties and consequences; and as long as they also enforce policies to ensure that the spatial/geographical burden lands disproportionately on the elite groups that push these policies. Somehow I doubt that when push comes to shove, they will accept these costs. However, if Judeo-Christianity and a virtue-ethical culture is the key to social cohesion – and I believe it is – then conservative responses to immigration (reduction/selection) are only legitimate / coherent to the extent that those same conservatives go back to church, take their kids (and have more kids)… and push Christian (or Jewish) values in the warp and weft of the culture. There is no materialist/market-liberal/libertarian perspective that can legitimately critique immigration. And if Christianity is the key to a culture at peace- then I have much more in common with a Nigerian catholic than I do with either a secular, materialist, Neo-liberal pseudo conservative, a woke-liberal consumer-individualist or a secular , working class nationalist/populist. There is a good case to be made for radically restriction/selection.. but for my money, it’s about Christendom and if it doesn’t start from the Imago Dei – the conviction in Genesis that we are created in the image of God, then it’s pointless. AOC, Richard Spencer , Dave Rubin and the Koch Foundation are all on the same team as far as I’m concerned.
Australia does that and doesn’t have those kinds of problems.
I upvoted you and Stephen but it is still skirting the main issue.
Even if Indians have higher IQ and are hard working, do we really want to commit ethic and cultural suicide by allowing mass immigration?
Just quick qoogle search would show that India is not without serious ethic problems.
As to Africans in general, please explain how low IQ, violent people would benefit uk?
We already see results on streets of London, daily.
Australia does that and doesn’t have those kinds of problems.
Tribal loyalty and tribal preference is a universal human drive , as well as the typical drive to protect the community’s children from harm.This insightful article reveals much about the destructive effects of the liberal lefts neuroritic obsessive self destructive drive and efforts to impose its racist anti racist solely on one targeted color of western civilisation.
Interesting to note that individual and tribal reputation protection trumps child protection in the Pakistani tribe coming to live in the relatively ptosperous land of ” the enemy” , whose tribal loyalty and preference is demonised and outlawed as racist by the liberal left.
When even the police and authorities fail to act to protect children from such widespread systemic sexual violence because of fear of being accused of racism, the destructive damaging effects of the lefts neurotic obsession with race has reached apocalyptic levels of social destruction and dysfunction.
We know the problem and who.Now, we need to how to address it and act .
I don’t think we need a debate. What we need is to stop a self-appointed liberal elite class from importing foreigners as semi-slaves, while paying our homegrown working class kids to sit idle, admiring their pointless degrees and student loan bills.
What a waste of life.
Huge generalizations.
Huge generalizations.
An excellent analysis of the question as to whom we prioritise in out immigration policy. I think we need to be hard headed about prioritising those that will benefit the UK and those that will integrate best.
Tribal loyalty and tribal preference is a universal human drive , as well as the typical drive to protect the community’s children from harm.This insightful article reveals much about the destructive effects of the liberal lefts neuroritic obsessive self destructive drive and efforts to impose its racist anti racist solely on one targeted color of western civilisation.
Interesting to note that individual and tribal reputation protection trumps child protection in the Pakistani tribe coming to live in the relatively ptosperous land of ” the enemy” , whose tribal loyalty and preference is demonised and outlawed as racist by the liberal left.
When even the police and authorities fail to act to protect children from such widespread systemic sexual violence because of fear of being accused of racism, the destructive damaging effects of the lefts neurotic obsession with race has reached apocalyptic levels of social destruction and dysfunction.
We know the problem and who.Now, we need to how to address it and act .
I don’t think we need a debate. What we need is to stop a self-appointed liberal elite class from importing foreigners as semi-slaves, while paying our homegrown working class kids to sit idle, admiring their pointless degrees and student loan bills.
What a waste of life.
Great article – honest and brave. Question: At what point is it permissible for countries to adopt selective immigration policies? The drivers of social-cohesion/fragmentation and of tribalism/integration are pretty clear. If you wanted to design a system that would maximize economic gains, minimize harms and foster integration, then unskilled, rural, working class muslim immigration from Pakistan would be bottom of the list, along with Albanians and Afghans. Ukrainians, Syriac and African Christians and skilled Indian Sikhs/Hindus might move closer to the top. On the other hand, if human rights and responding to need was the primary consideration, then Pakistani Muslims (and especially women) and refugees from Afghanistan might move closer to the top. The other obvious question is who gets to decide? Highly paid, highly educated members of the social policy literati who tend not to live in places like Rotherham and Telford, but Chorlton/Didsbury in Manchester or probably 250 miles south in Islington; or working class people in old mill towns who are routinely cast as the villains in the Brexit/white supremacy/decolonization narrative that has become the default survey course in most university humanities and social science programmes. Should immigration be designed primarily to benefit the country, or to respond to human need.These are legitimate questions which the political class and the mainstream media both seem intent on avoiding. We do need a debate.
I’m a former teacher. The day that broke me was when I realised that it was now an established part of professional safeguarding practice to teach young girls to hide a spoon in their underwear in order to set off the metal detector at the airport when they are being taken out of the UK for forced marriage or an FGM “ceremony”.
Setting off the metal detector gives the girl an opportunity to ask for a private search, where she can safely alert the authorities as to what is happening.
I’m not ashamed to say I cried in front of my colleagues that day.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
Cynic that I am, I am simply dumbfounded!
Nothing to be ashamed of.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
Cynic that I am, I am simply dumbfounded!
Nothing to be ashamed of.
I’m a former teacher. The day that broke me was when I realised that it was now an established part of professional safeguarding practice to teach young girls to hide a spoon in their underwear in order to set off the metal detector at the airport when they are being taken out of the UK for forced marriage or an FGM “ceremony”.
Setting off the metal detector gives the girl an opportunity to ask for a private search, where she can safely alert the authorities as to what is happening.
I’m not ashamed to say I cried in front of my colleagues that day.
This is a very powerful and brave article. The unheard voices it contains are exactly what Unherd should be for.
I would appreciate a little explanitory reader comment if possible. I am unclear about one detail in the article: The figure of 12 chldren per day suffering abuse in Pakistan. Every single case is an utter horror, but statistically the number seems very low. With some quick googling comparing CSA numbers in UK (65 per day) to population. The number might be expected to be in region of 240.
Is this number illustrating the incredibly low level of reporting in Pakistan as compared to UK?
The beginning of the article refers to NGO estimates of 500,000 per year based on the rate of support provided. Pakistan sees at least 1 child raped every single minute.
The underlying rate could be an order of magnitude higher. It could be 12 children per minute.
12 children per minute. This is more than 100 times the rate of abuse in Western countries.
How do cultural relativists explain this, or is it simply diversity?
I think pretty much everyone knows that countries are differentially placed on development scales – economic, cultural, political etc and that ‘sins of humanity’ relate to these placings. So it is not so much the case, for example, that Pakistani culture promotes or allows for CA more than British culture – but that Pakistan is behind Britain on several development metrics and so can reliably be expected to have more CA, graft, brutality etc – just as the UK did 150 years ago. So it is not national culture per se that is the problem, but developmental standard achieved. It might appear that these differences are vast and sometimes damning, but the timescales involved are nothing within the grand history of Sapiens, and at various points many Asian countries, were far ahead of Europeans – the latter stole a march on the former by balancing religion with enlightenment values.
I think it is absolutely national and religious culture that’s the problem.
Christian societies, and their descendant are the only societies to even express a belief in the equality of men and women (even though this has often only been honored in the breach). It’s not even an idea in most all Islamic, Asian, or African cultures, unless it has been imported from the west.
Are you sure? Equality of sexes is a fairly recent development even in Western/Christian societies.
Again practice may have deviated from the theology, but there is a reason that early converts to the Church were heavily weighted towards women. Christianity always gave women far higher status than the Greeks or Romans, or any of the other Classical social constructs.
Just see St. Paul in Galatians:
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12
I don’t disagree that Christianity has a good, often better expression of equality than many other belief systems (excepting perhaps, Baha’i, Judaism, Buddhism, Humanism), I just say that there is a lot more going on; and it’s a little obnoxious to link a terrible thing such as CA to any particular religion. Also glass houses….
Child abuse appears in every society. That doesn’t change the fact that some cultural/religious views make it more likely. Do you think the fact that the founder of Islam married a 9 year old, and the religion allows men multiple wives, and old men to take very young wives, might not contribute to more abuse?
You can see the same sort of thing in India and China where the cultural/religious preference for males leads to huge numbers of sex-selective abortions, and a huge sex disparity.
Your post starts “ Child abuse”.
The Ancient Greeks were rather tolerant in this regard, although strict conventions did apply as to the conduct of the ‘Erastes’ and the ‘Eromenos*.
Perhaps you should read Keneth Dover’s seminal work of 1978,
“Greek Homosexuality “?
(*The Lock & the Key.)
The Greeks abd Romans were morally appalling, including the Greeks love of pedophilia. Christianity displacing their moral systems was one of the greatest improvements in world history.
Worshipping any kind of God is the source of many, many problems. That’s an understatement.
Worshipping any kind of God is the source of many, many problems. That’s an understatement.
But aren’t we supposed to be evolving?
The Greeks abd Romans were morally appalling, including the Greeks love of pedophilia. Christianity displacing their moral systems was one of the greatest improvements in world history.
But aren’t we supposed to be evolving?
Netflix has a documentary called ‘In the name of God’ about a sex slave cult in Korea. It’s mind boggling, a must see.
Your post starts “ Child abuse”.
The Ancient Greeks were rather tolerant in this regard, although strict conventions did apply as to the conduct of the ‘Erastes’ and the ‘Eromenos*.
Perhaps you should read Keneth Dover’s seminal work of 1978,
“Greek Homosexuality “?
(*The Lock & the Key.)
Netflix has a documentary called ‘In the name of God’ about a sex slave cult in Korea. It’s mind boggling, a must see.
Of all the gender equality/identity issues one would think it’s about time that god became a he/she or an it/they. That would go a long way towards putting a dent in patriachy. As long as god is thought of as a man, men will tend to think they’re superior, if only unconsciously
Child abuse appears in every society. That doesn’t change the fact that some cultural/religious views make it more likely. Do you think the fact that the founder of Islam married a 9 year old, and the religion allows men multiple wives, and old men to take very young wives, might not contribute to more abuse?
You can see the same sort of thing in India and China where the cultural/religious preference for males leads to huge numbers of sex-selective abortions, and a huge sex disparity.
Of all the gender equality/identity issues one would think it’s about time that god became a he/she or an it/they. That would go a long way towards putting a dent in patriachy. As long as god is thought of as a man, men will tend to think they’re superior, if only unconsciously
Sorry but that is arrant nonsense, particularly in the case of Roman women from the time of Augustus onwards to Theodosius.
Christianity is a Semitic cult and like the other two regards women as inferior, to put it mildly.
For example why has there never been a female* Pope, a Mama NOT a Papa?
Why does an Orthodox Jew exclaim “Thank God I was NOT made a woman “ as he leaps out of bed in the morning?
(* Leaving aside the 9th century controversy of Pope Joan of Bridport, Dorset).
Rome was a moral cesspool. It was vastly improved by so-called barbarian invasions.
A rather nihilistic point of view to put it mildly. Would you care to back it up with a few actual facts rather than Christian propaganda?
A rather nihilistic point of view to put it mildly. Would you care to back it up with a few actual facts rather than Christian propaganda?
Right on Charles.
Rome was a moral cesspool. It was vastly improved by so-called barbarian invasions.
Right on Charles.
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12
I don’t disagree that Christianity has a good, often better expression of equality than many other belief systems (excepting perhaps, Baha’i, Judaism, Buddhism, Humanism), I just say that there is a lot more going on; and it’s a little obnoxious to link a terrible thing such as CA to any particular religion. Also glass houses….
Sorry but that is arrant nonsense, particularly in the case of Roman women from the time of Augustus onwards to Theodosius.
Christianity is a Semitic cult and like the other two regards women as inferior, to put it mildly.
For example why has there never been a female* Pope, a Mama NOT a Papa?
Why does an Orthodox Jew exclaim “Thank God I was NOT made a woman “ as he leaps out of bed in the morning?
(* Leaving aside the 9th century controversy of Pope Joan of Bridport, Dorset).
At least Western societies allowed for that evolution. “True” Islamic societies cannot even consider that transformation. It is all written in their unchangeable book.
Again practice may have deviated from the theology, but there is a reason that early converts to the Church were heavily weighted towards women. Christianity always gave women far higher status than the Greeks or Romans, or any of the other Classical social constructs.
Just see St. Paul in Galatians:
At least Western societies allowed for that evolution. “True” Islamic societies cannot even consider that transformation. It is all written in their unchangeable book.
Really. I never got the impression that Christianity was about the equality of men and women. On the contrary it seems to perpetuate the superiority of men.
Are you sure? Equality of sexes is a fairly recent development even in Western/Christian societies.
Really. I never got the impression that Christianity was about the equality of men and women. On the contrary it seems to perpetuate the superiority of men.
Yes, country like China was in recent history (last 500 years) but Pakistan never was.
Anyway, I have no problem with what savages do in their lands.
We just don’t need them here.
Proud ignoramus
It is neither proud nor ignorant to wish to maintain our national culture intact. Why the hell should we watch our ways, our culture, and our customs, being wrecked by an uncaring government allowing in an army of unknown foreign nobodies (truly ignorant people with some disgusting habits) to ruin our country and our childrens’ lives?
“Anyway, I have no problem with what savages do in their lands.
We just don’t need them here.”
Proud and ignorant.
“Anyway, I have no problem with what savages do in their lands.
We just don’t need them here.”
Proud and ignorant.
It is neither proud nor ignorant to wish to maintain our national culture intact. Why the hell should we watch our ways, our culture, and our customs, being wrecked by an uncaring government allowing in an army of unknown foreign nobodies (truly ignorant people with some disgusting habits) to ruin our country and our childrens’ lives?
Proud ignoramus
Pakistanis actually believe that their culture is far more superior than the western culture. I wonder what makes them believe this! The title: The Land Of The Pure?
Pretty much every country, religion, region, professsion and family think they are superior.
Pretty much every country, religion, region, professsion and family think they are superior.
I think it is absolutely national and religious culture that’s the problem.
Christian societies, and their descendant are the only societies to even express a belief in the equality of men and women (even though this has often only been honored in the breach). It’s not even an idea in most all Islamic, Asian, or African cultures, unless it has been imported from the west.
Yes, country like China was in recent history (last 500 years) but Pakistan never was.
Anyway, I have no problem with what savages do in their lands.
We just don’t need them here.
Pakistanis actually believe that their culture is far more superior than the western culture. I wonder what makes them believe this! The title: The Land Of The Pure?
She provided no solid evidence for these numbers. They were just convenient for the narrative she wanted to construct.
And what narrative are you constructing? Provide evidence against her article.
I am simply pointing out that she doesn’t have the data to back up her claims. Do follow up the links she provides. You’ll see for yourself how flimsy her ‘evidence’ is.
I am simply pointing out that she doesn’t have the data to back up her claims. Do follow up the links she provides. You’ll see for yourself how flimsy her ‘evidence’ is.
And what narrative are you constructing? Provide evidence against her article.
I think pretty much everyone knows that countries are differentially placed on development scales – economic, cultural, political etc and that ‘sins of humanity’ relate to these placings. So it is not so much the case, for example, that Pakistani culture promotes or allows for CA more than British culture – but that Pakistan is behind Britain on several development metrics and so can reliably be expected to have more CA, graft, brutality etc – just as the UK did 150 years ago. So it is not national culture per se that is the problem, but developmental standard achieved. It might appear that these differences are vast and sometimes damning, but the timescales involved are nothing within the grand history of Sapiens, and at various points many Asian countries, were far ahead of Europeans – the latter stole a march on the former by balancing religion with enlightenment values.
She provided no solid evidence for these numbers. They were just convenient for the narrative she wanted to construct.
I was about to post re this before I saw your post.
I think it is typo.
If it is 12k per day we are getting closer to yearly figure of 500k (although 13k is much closer).
It looks like there is no proof reading on Unherd.
Probably.
The beginning of the article refers to NGO estimates of 500,000 per year based on the rate of support provided. Pakistan sees at least 1 child raped every single minute.
The underlying rate could be an order of magnitude higher. It could be 12 children per minute.
12 children per minute. This is more than 100 times the rate of abuse in Western countries.
How do cultural relativists explain this, or is it simply diversity?
I was about to post re this before I saw your post.
I think it is typo.
If it is 12k per day we are getting closer to yearly figure of 500k (although 13k is much closer).
It looks like there is no proof reading on Unherd.
Probably.
This is a very powerful and brave article. The unheard voices it contains are exactly what Unherd should be for.
I would appreciate a little explanitory reader comment if possible. I am unclear about one detail in the article: The figure of 12 chldren per day suffering abuse in Pakistan. Every single case is an utter horror, but statistically the number seems very low. With some quick googling comparing CSA numbers in UK (65 per day) to population. The number might be expected to be in region of 240.
Is this number illustrating the incredibly low level of reporting in Pakistan as compared to UK?
I was struck by this sentence in the article: “They put pressure on Rahim to write a letter to the judge asking for a lighter sentence, their logic being that his cousins shouldn’t be made to grow up without a father.”
Is this not exactly the same sentiment that ensures that women accused of and convicted of criminal activity invariably end up with lighter sentences than men do and their actions are more easily excused. For us the core of the family is the mother. Men are dispensable. In contrast Pakistani families still have men at the core of the family and women and girls are dispensable. Pakistani families defend even the rogue men in a way that we can’t envisage given our gynocentric culture.
And look what that leads to.
They defend their men based on clan identity rather than misogyny. It’s tribal, really. As for the comparative value of men and women in the two cultures, misogyny offers Muslim men very limited protection in my professional experience. Due to the societal value placed on female virginity and the strict enforcement of sexual segregation, young boys are the more common target of CSA in these communities.
I take your point but it does seem that it is the girls and women that dishonour the family that seem to get killed by their family rather than the male dishonourer.
exactly.
exactly.
Are they really?
I take your point but it does seem that it is the girls and women that dishonour the family that seem to get killed by their family rather than the male dishonourer.
Are they really?
Men are more disposable in any society; it’s just a fact of biology. A sane society protects its young women at the expense of men. That’s why men fight, hunt, mine, and do all the dangerous jobs. A society that loses 50% of its young men (say in a war) has returned to normal within 20 years. A society that loses 50% of its young women is facing demographic disaster.
I think look at demographics of countries like France after Napoleon and Russia after ww2 would disprove your view that in 20 years things would return to normal.
I think look at demographics of countries like France after Napoleon and Russia after ww2 would disprove your view that in 20 years things would return to normal.
Way to miss the point! Do carry on with your “what about the mens!?!”
And look what that leads to.
They defend their men based on clan identity rather than misogyny. It’s tribal, really. As for the comparative value of men and women in the two cultures, misogyny offers Muslim men very limited protection in my professional experience. Due to the societal value placed on female virginity and the strict enforcement of sexual segregation, young boys are the more common target of CSA in these communities.
Men are more disposable in any society; it’s just a fact of biology. A sane society protects its young women at the expense of men. That’s why men fight, hunt, mine, and do all the dangerous jobs. A society that loses 50% of its young men (say in a war) has returned to normal within 20 years. A society that loses 50% of its young women is facing demographic disaster.
Way to miss the point! Do carry on with your “what about the mens!?!”
I was struck by this sentence in the article: “They put pressure on Rahim to write a letter to the judge asking for a lighter sentence, their logic being that his cousins shouldn’t be made to grow up without a father.”
Is this not exactly the same sentiment that ensures that women accused of and convicted of criminal activity invariably end up with lighter sentences than men do and their actions are more easily excused. For us the core of the family is the mother. Men are dispensable. In contrast Pakistani families still have men at the core of the family and women and girls are dispensable. Pakistani families defend even the rogue men in a way that we can’t envisage given our gynocentric culture.
“children are most at risk from the age of six, with nine being the most common age to be raped”
I am given to understand that this was also the case with Mrs Mohammed.
“children are most at risk from the age of six, with nine being the most common age to be raped”
I am given to understand that this was also the case with Mrs Mohammed.
“in Pakistan, where more than 12 children are sexually abused every day.” If you read the article that this links to, the stat is that 12 new cases of abuse are reported every day . That’s not the same as saying 12 children are abused every day — the number abused every day would be exponentially higher
Pakistan is a country of 230 million people. 3 times the size of Germany – Europe’s largest country – and the 5th largest country in the world. Do bear this in mind when considering these numbers.
Do we seriously believe their reporting system? I think not.
But then on what are you going to base any estimate on?
Well as ruled the place for a century or so I would start with ‘our’ records. Sadly hardly any of our District Officers can still be alive, but no doubt diaries exist, as do criminal records, court proceedings etc.
After all “ Botty Banditry “ is unlikely to have gone unnoticed during the great days of the ‘Pax Britannica’ is it?
On the behaviour of their diaspora (more reliably counted).
The diaspora of most countries is usually unrepresentative of the country itself so there’ll be a lot of selection bias. Moreover, diasporas tend to change over time.
The diaspora of most countries is usually unrepresentative of the country itself so there’ll be a lot of selection bias. Moreover, diasporas tend to change over time.
Well as ruled the place for a century or so I would start with ‘our’ records. Sadly hardly any of our District Officers can still be alive, but no doubt diaries exist, as do criminal records, court proceedings etc.
After all “ Botty Banditry “ is unlikely to have gone unnoticed during the great days of the ‘Pax Britannica’ is it?
On the behaviour of their diaspora (more reliably counted).
But then on what are you going to base any estimate on?
Do we seriously believe their reporting system? I think not.
Surely that should read every MINUTE not every DAY?
Pakistan is a country of 230 million people. 3 times the size of Germany – Europe’s largest country – and the 5th largest country in the world. Do bear this in mind when considering these numbers.
Surely that should read every MINUTE not every DAY?
“in Pakistan, where more than 12 children are sexually abused every day.” If you read the article that this links to, the stat is that 12 new cases of abuse are reported every day . That’s not the same as saying 12 children are abused every day — the number abused every day would be exponentially higher
Decent people who find themselves socialising with “liberals” need to start using phrases like “Pakistani paedophile rape gangs”.
Not sure what it says about a society where it is worse to be a racist than a child r@pist.
Also would question why a community that practices “honour killings”, consider cover ups when child r@pists are involved?!?
“Honour killings”…. That must be the most ridiculous ‘contradiction in terms’ I have ever heard!
These ‘people’ know nothing of honour, nor ever will. They are beyond redemption and beneath contempt, and we MUST start to treat them as such.
“Honour killings”…. That must be the most ridiculous ‘contradiction in terms’ I have ever heard!
These ‘people’ know nothing of honour, nor ever will. They are beyond redemption and beneath contempt, and we MUST start to treat them as such.
Sure, and to be consistent they should use phrases like member of a ‘White international paedophile rape corporation’ for Prince Andrew.
I wonder whether Jim “Whatabout” Bocho works in child “protection” in a Northern town.
The Trump supporters already use that phrase for Democrats.
I wonder whether Jim “Whatabout” Bocho works in child “protection” in a Northern town.
The Trump supporters already use that phrase for Democrats.
Which is great if you are retired.
Otherwise you are likely to loose your job and probably face police action.
Just reference Douglas Murray article in Spectator re Prevent report.
Not sure what it says about a society where it is worse to be a racist than a child r@pist.
Also would question why a community that practices “honour killings”, consider cover ups when child r@pists are involved?!?
Sure, and to be consistent they should use phrases like member of a ‘White international paedophile rape corporation’ for Prince Andrew.
Which is great if you are retired.
Otherwise you are likely to loose your job and probably face police action.
Just reference Douglas Murray article in Spectator re Prevent report.
Decent people who find themselves socialising with “liberals” need to start using phrases like “Pakistani paedophile rape gangs”.
Don’t expect the timorous police officers and hankie-twisting social workers to crack down on these criminals in the UK any time soon.
That is perhaps the most disheartening aspect of this whole sorry saga — that the known rottenness within certain immigrant cultures will continue to be ignored, covered up, or left unreformed.
Because oflack of courage.
Because oflack of courage.
That is perhaps the most disheartening aspect of this whole sorry saga — that the known rottenness within certain immigrant cultures will continue to be ignored, covered up, or left unreformed.
Don’t expect the timorous police officers and hankie-twisting social workers to crack down on these criminals in the UK any time soon.
I think it is important to remember in these circumstances, that we are not talking about race, but about culture.
And it perfectly correct and acceptable to say that some cultures are morally repugnant and inferior to others.
A hundred times “yes” to that!
Well said!! That’s a very important distinction.
A hundred times “yes” to that!
Well said!! That’s a very important distinction.
I think it is important to remember in these circumstances, that we are not talking about race, but about culture.
And it perfectly correct and acceptable to say that some cultures are morally repugnant and inferior to others.
“Is this what a multicultural society is supposed to tolerate under the guise of “social cohesion”?”
It’s called institutional cowardice. Anyone who hasn’t watched the documentary on GBNews should do so. This industrial scale rape is still going on. But instead of confronting this cultural defect that blights Pakistani society and and society in which they live, they cultivate victimhood, turning themselves into the victims of racism on the part of the “white enemy”. If too many Pakistanis consider the host country to be the enemy, perhaps they should consider returning to their own country where they don’t have to endure whites.
It took considerable moral and physical courage to write this article. I hope the author doesn’t become the victim of an “honour killing”.
“Is this what a multicultural society is supposed to tolerate under the guise of “social cohesion”?”
It’s called institutional cowardice. Anyone who hasn’t watched the documentary on GBNews should do so. This industrial scale rape is still going on. But instead of confronting this cultural defect that blights Pakistani society and and society in which they live, they cultivate victimhood, turning themselves into the victims of racism on the part of the “white enemy”. If too many Pakistanis consider the host country to be the enemy, perhaps they should consider returning to their own country where they don’t have to endure whites.
It took considerable moral and physical courage to write this article. I hope the author doesn’t become the victim of an “honour killing”.
Sir Cyril Richard SMITH MBE MStJ DL.
1950-66: Labour Councillor: Rochdale
1966 : Mayor of Rochdale.
1972- 1992 :MP for Rochdale.
LEST WE FORGET.
Cyril Smith was also a big fat nonce.
Yes true. Question is though how widespread it is in given community.
He was a native abuser.
Do we need to import new ones from abroad?
No!
But it is interesting that during CS’s time as MP this barbarism was being perpetrated every hour in Rochdale!
(and other places it must be said.)
No!
But it is interesting that during CS’s time as MP this barbarism was being perpetrated every hour in Rochdale!
(and other places it must be said.)
Cyril Smith was also a big fat nonce.
Yes true. Question is though how widespread it is in given community.
He was a native abuser.
Do we need to import new ones from abroad?
Sir Cyril Richard SMITH MBE MStJ DL.
1950-66: Labour Councillor: Rochdale
1966 : Mayor of Rochdale.
1972- 1992 :MP for Rochdale.
LEST WE FORGET.
Isn’t multiculturalism wonderful?
Come back Enid Blyton ALL is forgiven!
Come back Enid Blyton ALL is forgiven!
Isn’t multiculturalism wonderful?
Anyone throwing around the word “Islamophobia” must be looked upon as a suspicious character. Their victim narrative has gone too far. The media must also be cleansed of their sympathisers.
To start with, their mosque culture (and finances) should be monitored and regulated. The mosques are the hotbed of their anti-social activities, fuelled by power hungry imams and mullahs.
Right on.
Right on.
Anyone throwing around the word “Islamophobia” must be looked upon as a suspicious character. Their victim narrative has gone too far. The media must also be cleansed of their sympathisers.
To start with, their mosque culture (and finances) should be monitored and regulated. The mosques are the hotbed of their anti-social activities, fuelled by power hungry imams and mullahs.
A combination of low IQs caused by millenia of cousin marriage and primitive tribal customs has led to this sorry state. Only a fool would have let these people settle in this country. Even Islam couldn’t teach them all basic moral precepts like ‘don’t molest children’. If they were Saudi they’d have been executed.
“Islam couldn’t teach them all basic moral precepts like ‘don’t molest children’. ”
The complete absence of non Islamic Indians when it comes to over a dozen “Asian ” gangs suggests it’s the other way round.
“Islam couldn’t teach them all basic moral precepts like ‘don’t molest children’. ”
The complete absence of non Islamic Indians when it comes to over a dozen “Asian ” gangs suggests it’s the other way round.
A combination of low IQs caused by millenia of cousin marriage and primitive tribal customs has led to this sorry state. Only a fool would have let these people settle in this country. Even Islam couldn’t teach them all basic moral precepts like ‘don’t molest children’. If they were Saudi they’d have been executed.
It does make one wonder if our establishment is rotten to the core and itself infested with child abusers? Why else would our pathetic and wilfully neglectful “authorities”, who are so quick to act against anyone who differs from their world view, encourage and endorse long-term, endemic mass rape of children?
It does make one wonder if our establishment is rotten to the core and itself infested with child abusers? Why else would our pathetic and wilfully neglectful “authorities”, who are so quick to act against anyone who differs from their world view, encourage and endorse long-term, endemic mass rape of children?
One thing strikes me as strange. In a culture where child sexual abuse is sytemic – and I have no reason to imagine that this is not the case in Pakistani ( and that means muslim) society – why is it that when a child reports abuse to the mother they are ‘not believed’ Are we to imagine that the mother was not abused? Or is it merely cultural denial?
Personally, I think they are all probably complicit.
Mothers denying their children’s sexual abuse is common in all cultures. That’s perhaps the worse part of the whole thing, to be abandoned by those who are supposed to love and protect.
Mothers denying their children’s sexual abuse is common in all cultures. That’s perhaps the worse part of the whole thing, to be abandoned by those who are supposed to love and protect.
One thing strikes me as strange. In a culture where child sexual abuse is sytemic – and I have no reason to imagine that this is not the case in Pakistani ( and that means muslim) society – why is it that when a child reports abuse to the mother they are ‘not believed’ Are we to imagine that the mother was not abused? Or is it merely cultural denial?
Personally, I think they are all probably complicit.
“counsellors”
Editor where is the spell-check?
Sibton Abbey?
Sibton Abbey?
“counsellors”
Editor where is the spell-check?
Compare and contrast with the level of attention and resources applied to Operation Midland, and to the seven-year “Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse”. In the latter, the word “Rotherham” occurs once, in the context of an unrelated offence.
Compare and contrast with the level of attention and resources applied to Operation Midland, and to the seven-year “Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse”. In the latter, the word “Rotherham” occurs once, in the context of an unrelated offence.
So much for Blair’s multi cultural society. Without justice there cannot be cultural cohesion. It is shocking how our own people let the girls and us down and how the injustice continues. Would that they would forsake the wokeness and deal with the real problems.
So much for Blair’s multi cultural society. Without justice there cannot be cultural cohesion. It is shocking how our own people let the girls and us down and how the injustice continues. Would that they would forsake the wokeness and deal with the real problems.
“Honour”?
“Honour”?