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Germany is in denial about Ukraine Does Olaf Scholz expect America to clear up Europe's mess?

It's behind you. Credit: AXEL HEIMKEN/POOL/AFP via Getty Images

It's behind you. Credit: AXEL HEIMKEN/POOL/AFP via Getty Images


January 20, 2023   6 mins

It’s been nearly a year since the Chancellor of Germany stood before the Bundestag and gravely proclaimed a Zeitenwende, a tectonic shift in the nation’s defence policy. There would be a special fund of €100 billion to beef up the hopelessly under-equipped Bundeswehr, or armed forces. Olaf Scholz also promised to ramp up defence spending to 2% of GDP, in line with NATO rules (and, awkwardly, Donald Trump’s demands). Zeitenwende crucially, moreover, implied stepping up for Ukraine. But not much of that has happened since.

Today, around 50 defence ministers from around the world are meeting at the US air base in Ramstein, not far from Frankfurt, to again discuss western military support for Ukraine. Naturally, Germany will be in the spotlight. The US and other allies are counting on Scholz to take on more responsibility, to assume more leadership in Europe’s greatest security crisis in decades. And Scholz has been making the noises that Germany’s allies have hoped to hear: in a recent article in Foreign Affairs he writes: “Germans are intent on becoming the guarantor of European security that our allies expect us to be.” This echoes Scholz’s stated aim of making Germany a FĂŒhrungsmacht, a leading power. But how close is he to achieving it? Very, very far.

The visiting defence ministers will encounter a Germany riddled with problems. For one, Monday saw the resignation of the incompetent defence minister, Christine Lambrecht. By Tuesday a new one, Boris Pistorius, had been named. He’s in for a baptism of fire. Germany has been under enormous pressure to supply the Leopard 2 battle tanks that Ukraine has been requesting for months — or at least to green light the re-export of the German-made fighting vehicles from countries like Poland and Finland. And that pressure was ramped up a notch this week by Britain’s decision to provide Challenger tanks.

In truth, there’s little willingness in Germany to spare any of the 340-odd Leopard 2s in use by the nation’s army. The government, on this front, has been dithering and stalling — or at least is that how it comes across publicly. Back in October, Scholz’ spin doctor Wolfgang Schmidt had all sorts of strange excuses not to provide the tanks. The Ukrainians wouldn’t be capable of maintaining the sophisticated German machines. Or, even weirder, the iron cross on the tanks would indicate to the Russians that the Germans were an active participant in the war. At which Ukrainians tweeted: “Don’t worry, we have paint.”

As with every German weapons delivery, making it happen would take a solid kick up the arse from President Joe Biden. Perhaps one was delivered in the phone call between the two men on Tuesday. But at the Davos summit the next day, Scholz’s communication on Ukraine was still vague and non-committal. When asked about the Leopards, he dodged the question and rattled off a list of armaments that Germany has delivered so far. It’s true that these armaments have not been insignificant. They have included howitzers, mobile anti-aircraft guns and surface-to-air missile systems. This month, the German government pledged 40 Marder infantry fighting vehicles — but only after dragging its feet for months.

Why isn’t the Zeitenwende happening a little quicker? Partly because Germany’s military structures are sclerotic. Modernising them must be the eternal quest of the nation’s defence minister. Especially bureaucratic is the procurement of weapons and gear. A small example: a pedantic military official once noticed, while purchasing tanks, that they didn’t have mirrors that conformed to the German highway code — so he or she absolutely insisted on getting them installed, complicating and slowing down the acquisition.

Ursula von der Leyen, while serving as Angela Merkel’s defence minister, hired McKinsey to sort out the Bundeswehr’s crusty organisational structures. A consulting budget of €2.5 million ballooned into €100 million, in what was known as the “consultant affair”. Relevant data requested by a parliamentary enquiry vanished under von der Leyen’s watch — but none of the allegations stuck. And although she massively boosted defence spending, the operational problems persisted.

Even more useless was Lambrecht, who took the reins of the defence ministry in December 2021, when Olaf Scholz’s coalition assumed power. In response to the Russian invasion a few months later, she dispatched 5,000 helmets to Ukraine, earning her ridicule. But her true talent was social media blunders, which included a post of her son riding in a military helicopter, and a New Year’s Eve video message with a backdrop of exploding pyrotechnics that sounded a lot like artillery fire. Empathy wasn’t her strength. Neither was running the military. She achieved practically nothing with a budget of €100 billion. Last month, all 18 Puma armed personnel carriers participating in an exercise broke down, coming to symbolise how ill-prepared the German army is for combat.

Lambrecht’s replacement, Boris Pistorius, is said to be a tough-talking, no-nonsense kind of guy. His appointment has upset the gender parity of the Scholz cabinet, attracting criticism from the Left. But hiring a capable minister should probably take precedent at this point. There’s a war out there — and the double challenge of getting Ukraine what it needs and turning the German army into an effective defence force once more is enormous to say the least.

But it’s not just practical challenges slowing down the tectonic shift. Equally complex are the beliefs that inform the German approach to Ukraine. Pro-Russian and anti-American impulses are common on the political fringes, among both the far-Right AfD and far-Left Die Linke, but also among mainstream politicians, including Michael Kretschmer, the premier of the eastern state of Saxony. This is the same Michael Kretschmer who called for the repair of the Nord Stream 1 undersea pipeline that was attacked in September. We’ll need that cheap Russian gas after the war, Kretschmer said. Granted, his state has close business links to Russia, but isn’t it a little early to start cozying up to the aggressor?

As I’ve written for UnHerd, many East Germans feel less connected to “The West” as an idea. It’s common in this region to reject military support for Ukraine and believe in a negotiated peace with Putin. Which is confounding when you remember that East Germans staged a peaceful revolution to free themselves from the Soviet bloc. That Ukrainians were also part of that bloc doesn’t seem to make East Germans more sympathetic to their resistance.

How influenced is Scholz by such sentiments? None of the parties in his coalition are anti-western, per se. But last summer, Scholz’ foreign policy adviser Jens Plötner snapped dismissively: “You can fill many newspaper pages with 20 Marders [the fighting vehicles Germany would pledge to Ukraine], but larger articles about our future relationship with Russia are less frequent. That question is at least as exciting and relevant.” Plötner has, for years, played a key role in Germany’s appeasement of Russia. His comments came not long after the discovery of mass graves in Bucha.

It’s not so much what Germany does as how, according to Benjamin Tallis, senior fellow at the German Council for Foreign Relations, and author of the new book To Ukraine with love: Essays on Russia’s war and Europe’s future. For him, Germany is “moving at the speed of shame. It’s been pressured into taking every one of its steps to support Ukraine. Its leadership, particularly in the chancellery, has seemed extremely reluctant to take each one of those steps, or even providing weapons at all. Now we see it again on the Leopards, the main battle tanks that would really be a game changer.”

To Tallis, the German approach is “a nostalgic politics for the recent past”, when Germany outsourced “its energy needs to Russia, its security needs to the US and its trade to China”. Since the defeat of Nazi Germany, West Germany has taken an ever more pacifist approach to foreign policy. In the late Sixties there was Willy Brandt’s Ostpolitik, which allowed the Federal Republic to begin importing natural gas from the Soviet Union. And then came 1989.

As Thomas Bagger, currently Germany’s ambassador to Poland, articulates in his 2019 essay “The world according to Germany: Reassessing 1989”, in the decades following the fall of the Berlin Wall, Germany — more than any other country — took Francis Fukuyama’s “End of History” to heart. Or, at least, an oversimplified version of Fukuyama’s thesis. Liberal democracy embedded in a rules-based international order was, in Germany, the only model with any future. Authoritarian powers like Russia and China could be turned into friendly, liberal partners if only you did enough business with them.

“Even long after it was clear that wasn’t going to happen, they continued to pursue this,” says Tallis. “It was remarkably comfortable, remarkably easy. You got to pretend you were doing good by doing well.” And all the while you whittle down your armed forces from nearly 500,000 troops in the Eighties to 180,000 today (a mere 24,000 of them combat-ready soldiers). You retire most of your military hardware, kick back and enjoy the peace dividend, under the umbrella of continued American protection.

The chickens have come home to roost, thanks to the war. Or, as Tallis puts it: “The hypocrisy of Germany’s position is coming out now.” Its recent history shaped by the idea that “Germans, having atoned for their past, had moved beyond these very 20th century vices of war, violence and power politics”, the nation has fallen foul of a “head-in-the-sand approach: We can get away with this while others sully their hands.”

One German commentator describes the lingering recalcitrance this way: “It sometimes seems like there’s been an accident, someone is injured, and there’s a bunch of people standing around. And Germany thinks, hopefully someone knows what they’re doing and takes decisive action to help the person, otherwise they might die. There’s a war in Europe, it would be good if someone did something. But Zeitenwende means we’re the ones who have to do something.”

Germany is doing something. The question is: is it enough? Despite the words coming out of Scholz’s mouth, it still feels as though the nation is in denial about the fact that there’s a devastating war raging just two countries away. Or it is, at least, in denial about the nature of that war — and the huge geopolitical shift it represents. Perhaps today, faced with so many of the world’s defence ministers, the nation will pull its head out the sand.


Maurice Frank co-founded the English magazine Exberliner and now co-writes the newsletter 20 Percent Berlin. 

mauricetfrank

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Chris Keating
Chris Keating
1 year ago

I don’t blame the German government for being a bit slow and dragging their feet. One or more of their allies has destroyed their gas pipelines and one is quite keen on stealing their businesses away using cheaper energy as bait to de-industrialise them.
They have a lot of thinking to do

Mike Doyle
Mike Doyle
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

Russia complains mightily when its ships are sunk and its bridges are attacked. When the gas pipelines were destroyed it said nothing; and that’s because the Russians blew up their own pipelines so that they could cut off Europe.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike Doyle

What?
The did not need to destroy the infrastructure when they could just turn off the tap.

Irene Ve
Irene Ve
1 year ago

Putin loves to think he is playing by the rules (I know, it is a bit twisted in his case).
Destroying pipelines was (or might have been) necessary in order for Gazprom to have a plausible excuse for applying a force majeure clause so that it would not be charged for breaking their gas supply contracts.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Irene Ve

You do realise that those gas supply contracts were to countries that has placed Russia under harsh economic sanctions and illegally seized Russian wealth? While supplying Ukraine with weapons?

If Gazprom simply switched off the gas, what could West Europeans do that they hadn’t already done?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

You avoid the obvious question: “what could Putin do?”
I know, “because he invaded Ukraine when he said he wouldn’t, surely he wouldn’t blow up a gas pipeline elsewhere to freeze Europe?”
Your logic is impeccable…

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

He invaded Ukraine because he very clearly and openly stated that he WOULD – IF the red lines were crossed (continued attacks on Donbass Russians, NATO extending to Ukraine).

You can disagree with those reasons – surely Russians in Donbass don’t have the same rights as Croats or Slovaks, and only peaceful NATO has the right to attack and bomb countries – but Russia was clear about it.

And incidentally, the US counted in Russia doing exactly what they said. They never cared about Ukraine, just provoking Russia into a war that (in their short term, neocon driven mindset) proved really useful

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

I am laughing as I write this.
Putin and every other Russian official said any talk of invasion was delusional.
While the US was warning of an attack every day up to 24 Feb.
Moreover, the US clearly feared that Ukraine would cave–so they provoked Putin to attack??
Yours is a far worse (and far more entertaining) attempt to rewrite history than Stalin’s…

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

I am laughing as I write this.
Putin and every other Russian official said any talk of invasion was delusional.
While the US was warning of an attack every day up to 24 Feb.
Moreover, the US clearly feared that Ukraine would cave–so they provoked Putin to attack??
Yours is a far worse (and far more entertaining) attempt to rewrite history than Stalin’s…

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

He invaded Ukraine because he very clearly and openly stated that he WOULD – IF the red lines were crossed (continued attacks on Donbass Russians, NATO extending to Ukraine).

You can disagree with those reasons – surely Russians in Donbass don’t have the same rights as Croats or Slovaks, and only peaceful NATO has the right to attack and bomb countries – but Russia was clear about it.

And incidentally, the US counted in Russia doing exactly what they said. They never cared about Ukraine, just provoking Russia into a war that (in their short term, neocon driven mindset) proved really useful

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

I think they were blown up to stop any ‘business as usual’ backsliding by the Germans, many of who seem to believe a week or two after the ending of the war things can go back to normal. That is never happening.
Germany needs to walk the walk with walk with decarbonising or shut up talking about it.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

You avoid the obvious question: “what could Putin do?”
I know, “because he invaded Ukraine when he said he wouldn’t, surely he wouldn’t blow up a gas pipeline elsewhere to freeze Europe?”
Your logic is impeccable…

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

I think they were blown up to stop any ‘business as usual’ backsliding by the Germans, many of who seem to believe a week or two after the ending of the war things can go back to normal. That is never happening.
Germany needs to walk the walk with walk with decarbonising or shut up talking about it.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Irene Ve

Presumably the pipeline was adjacent to those weapons of mass destruction we could not find in Iraq

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Irene Ve

You do realise that those gas supply contracts were to countries that has placed Russia under harsh economic sanctions and illegally seized Russian wealth? While supplying Ukraine with weapons?

If Gazprom simply switched off the gas, what could West Europeans do that they hadn’t already done?

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Irene Ve

Presumably the pipeline was adjacent to those weapons of mass destruction we could not find in Iraq

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Naive in the extreme.
You don’t understand Putin’s logic–or the fear in many left wing German circles.
The attacks were a signal that Putin could destroy ANY pipeline if he so chose.
Since much of Europe is dependent on gas from the North Sea, etc, it’s the equivalent of a mafiosa smashing a shot glass in a bar and saying: “nice place ya got here–shame if anything happened to it.”
Sooo gullible…

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Sooo deluded
I bet you still believe there are weapons of mass destruction to be found in Iraq and that the US navy really was attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin

Last edited 1 year ago by Ethniciodo Rodenydo
martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Having thought the Iraq war of 2003 was the stupidest conflict ever waged, I am greatly amused at your naive certainty that everyone is as dumb as Putin.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

How on earth do you deduce that I am certain that at your that everyone is as dumb as Putin.
Are you a US bot?

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

How on earth do you deduce that I am certain that at your that everyone is as dumb as Putin.
Are you a US bot?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Having thought the Iraq war of 2003 was the stupidest conflict ever waged, I am greatly amused at your naive certainty that everyone is as dumb as Putin.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

That is a truly perposterous hypothesis.
To follow your analogy it would be like a gangster smashing up his own bar as a means extorting other bar owners.
Now is a North Sea pipeline had gone up I can see how Putin might be favourite

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

The threat is to EUROPEAN gas lines, not Nordstream.
And Putin will never get any money from the Nordstreams again.
So he can happily blow them up as a warning.
Soooo naive…

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

You really must be a US bot.
You have not addressed my point
When things really star to get hard Europe will readily cut a deal for Russian gas

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Nice to see the Leopards are coming.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Nice to see the Leopards are coming.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

You really must be a US bot.
You have not addressed my point
When things really star to get hard Europe will readily cut a deal for Russian gas

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

The threat is to EUROPEAN gas lines, not Nordstream.
And Putin will never get any money from the Nordstreams again.
So he can happily blow them up as a warning.
Soooo naive…

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Sooo deluded
I bet you still believe there are weapons of mass destruction to be found in Iraq and that the US navy really was attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin

Last edited 1 year ago by Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

That is a truly perposterous hypothesis.
To follow your analogy it would be like a gangster smashing up his own bar as a means extorting other bar owners.
Now is a North Sea pipeline had gone up I can see how Putin might be favourite

Irene Ve
Irene Ve
1 year ago

Putin loves to think he is playing by the rules (I know, it is a bit twisted in his case).
Destroying pipelines was (or might have been) necessary in order for Gazprom to have a plausible excuse for applying a force majeure clause so that it would not be charged for breaking their gas supply contracts.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Naive in the extreme.
You don’t understand Putin’s logic–or the fear in many left wing German circles.
The attacks were a signal that Putin could destroy ANY pipeline if he so chose.
Since much of Europe is dependent on gas from the North Sea, etc, it’s the equivalent of a mafiosa smashing a shot glass in a bar and saying: “nice place ya got here–shame if anything happened to it.”
Sooo gullible…

Trevor B
Trevor B
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike Doyle

Nope. the Americans or their agents blew them up. Any fool can see that.

Peter Heald
Peter Heald
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

And the evidence is?

Jim R
Jim R
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Heald


never going to see the light of day

rue boileau
rue boileau
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Heald

Come on, Biden even announced he was going to do it!!

Su Mac
Su Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Heald

And Victoria Nuland announced they would do it too..

Bruce Edgar
Bruce Edgar
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

I think she was quoted (overheard) saying “it’s done.” This was used in the press to suggest she had very deep and timely insider informawtion.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Edgar

Which press?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Always best not to quote any source.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Always best not to quote any source.

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Edgar

No, it was reported that Liz Truss phoned Antony Blinken and said that.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Rob C

By who?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Rob C

By who?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Edgar

Which press?

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Edgar

No, it was reported that Liz Truss phoned Antony Blinken and said that.

Bruce Edgar
Bruce Edgar
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

I think she was quoted (overheard) saying “it’s done.” This was used in the press to suggest she had very deep and timely insider informawtion.

Jim R
Jim R
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Heald


never going to see the light of day

rue boileau
rue boileau
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Heald

Come on, Biden even announced he was going to do it!!

Su Mac
Su Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Heald

And Victoria Nuland announced they would do it too..

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

I see the Russian trolls are out in force today.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

Any fool can see you’re a fool.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

Based on evidence here, you are clearly underestimating the foolishness of fools, and their willingness to believe.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Indeed.
That the US would risk shattering its own alliance against Russia for a few extra bucks is idiotic.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

It does not work that way.
It could have been intended to stop Europe backsliding and to deny Russia the revenue.
People who have a financial interest in a particular outcome find a moral position that justifies that outcome.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Yes, “cudda.”
And Putin, who derives a huge fortune annually from an entire petro-power, and whose brilliant master plan is collapsing before his eyes, is the most likely culprit.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Why? How does he benefit?
The only country that does benefit is the US

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

The only country that benefits is the country seeking to intimidate Europe into not supporting Ukraine.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Who is now selling 140% more gas to Europe?
I will give you a clue. It’s not Russia

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Who is now selling 140% more gas to Europe?
I will give you a clue. It’s not Russia

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

The only country that benefits is the country seeking to intimidate Europe into not supporting Ukraine.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Why? How does he benefit?
The only country that does benefit is the US

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Yes, “cudda.”
And Putin, who derives a huge fortune annually from an entire petro-power, and whose brilliant master plan is collapsing before his eyes, is the most likely culprit.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

It does not work that way.
It could have been intended to stop Europe backsliding and to deny Russia the revenue.
People who have a financial interest in a particular outcome find a moral position that justifies that outcome.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Indeed.
That the US would risk shattering its own alliance against Russia for a few extra bucks is idiotic.

D Walsh
D Walsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

Does it matter what we believe, I don’t think the Russians blew up the pipeline

But what do the German government believe. In public they might play along and agree it was the Russians, but do they really believe it

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

Always good to ask questions that no one can answer.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

One can make a plausible case for either side to have done it. Without any evidence, one might as well say that Trump did it. (Hey, he was not a big fan of it.)

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

Always good to ask questions that no one can answer.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

One can make a plausible case for either side to have done it. Without any evidence, one might as well say that Trump did it. (Hey, he was not a big fan of it.)

Peter Heald
Peter Heald
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

And the evidence is?

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

I see the Russian trolls are out in force today.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

Any fool can see you’re a fool.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

Based on evidence here, you are clearly underestimating the foolishness of fools, and their willingness to believe.

D Walsh
D Walsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor B

Does it matter what we believe, I don’t think the Russians blew up the pipeline

But what do the German government believe. In public they might play along and agree it was the Russians, but do they really believe it

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike Doyle

I don’t believe that. The deep state is behind it.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

I’d say the Illuminati.
Or the Jesuits

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

I’d say the Illuminati.
Or the Jesuits

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike Doyle

What?
The did not need to destroy the infrastructure when they could just turn off the tap.

Trevor B
Trevor B
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike Doyle

Nope. the Americans or their agents blew them up. Any fool can see that.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike Doyle

I don’t believe that. The deep state is behind it.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

What Germany needs is new leader to emerge form nowhere, with a little moustache

Hugh R
Hugh R
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

The Germans should have been more circumspect when sneering, actually laughing, in the face of the Orange one.

It’s bad enough picking up their bill on Nato, but when PROTUS is humiliated in public, stating that Germany is too dependant on Russian gas, there is a price to pay.
And I don’t blame them. Every spotty, Lefty theocracy in the West has looked down their noses at the USA for generations. They’ve had enough, and left us on our own.

Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh R

Every spotty, Lefty theocracy in the West …

Did you mean: ‘snotty’?

Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh R

Every spotty, Lefty theocracy in the West …

Did you mean: ‘snotty’?

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

All of which is their own fault.

james leucapa
james leucapa
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

Join the illuminati and embrace wealth whatsapp +2348137089925

Mike Doyle
Mike Doyle
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

Russia complains mightily when its ships are sunk and its bridges are attacked. When the gas pipelines were destroyed it said nothing; and that’s because the Russians blew up their own pipelines so that they could cut off Europe.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

What Germany needs is new leader to emerge form nowhere, with a little moustache

Hugh R
Hugh R
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

The Germans should have been more circumspect when sneering, actually laughing, in the face of the Orange one.

It’s bad enough picking up their bill on Nato, but when PROTUS is humiliated in public, stating that Germany is too dependant on Russian gas, there is a price to pay.
And I don’t blame them. Every spotty, Lefty theocracy in the West has looked down their noses at the USA for generations. They’ve had enough, and left us on our own.

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

All of which is their own fault.

james leucapa
james leucapa
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

Join the illuminati and embrace wealth whatsapp +2348137089925

Chris Keating
Chris Keating
1 year ago

I don’t blame the German government for being a bit slow and dragging their feet. One or more of their allies has destroyed their gas pipelines and one is quite keen on stealing their businesses away using cheaper energy as bait to de-industrialise them.
They have a lot of thinking to do

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago

Germany seems torn by its own politics. Allow those tank transfers. Re-examine the energy balance and restore the industrial might that creates skilled labor. Their industry is the most critical factor and is needed for their military. Trying to appease Russia will not work anymore just as trying to appease the German green lobby has not worked.

Andy White
Andy White
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

It’s not about appeasing Russia, it’s about living with Russia. A more pointed question for the Germans given their history and geographical location. Is it in their interest to stoke a forever war with Russia? Of course it isn’t.

Andy White
Andy White
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

It’s not about appeasing Russia, it’s about living with Russia. A more pointed question for the Germans given their history and geographical location. Is it in their interest to stoke a forever war with Russia? Of course it isn’t.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago

Germany seems torn by its own politics. Allow those tank transfers. Re-examine the energy balance and restore the industrial might that creates skilled labor. Their industry is the most critical factor and is needed for their military. Trying to appease Russia will not work anymore just as trying to appease the German green lobby has not worked.

Daniel P
Daniel P
1 year ago

At the end of the day……the German’s are gonna have to grow up.

They want to be an important power in that they can control and benefit from the EU and the Euro but they do not want the responsibility that comes with that. They like the economic advantages. They like the ability to steer things and basically dictate policy for Western Europe. They just do not want to pay the price those things come with.

They want to gripe about the US but they are the first ones to b***h when the US talks about backing off from guaranteeing European security. They are the first to complain (though it might be a tie with the French) about the US dominating the west and how the EU needs to be a balance to the US, but they are also the first to cry foul when the US talks about pulling military assets out of Europe and pivoting to Asia insisting on better trade (Germany is essentially a mecantilist country). They remind me of the US southern states that resisted the establishment of a Navy despite their economic dependence on the shipping centered in the North.

Honestly, I am kinda sick of the Europeans generally and the French and Germans particularly. Sick of their griping about the US, its culture, its power, its wealth and its military but all the while sucking off us for their security and for trade and for finance.

They want to go play footsie with the Chinese and the Russians? Ok. Get back to us and let us know how that worked out for ya.

Reminds me of that speech from A Few Good Men..

“I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
I would rather that you just said “thank you” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post. Either way, I don’t give a DAMN what you think you’re entitled to!”

Last edited 1 year ago by Daniel P
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

As Ibn Khaldun said in about 1400 when comparing town dwellers with beduin “Those men protected by walls and garrisons, lose their uprightness and manliness”.
When one reads about the collapse of Rome and the lost of arab power within Islam it looks vary familiar.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

As Ibn Khaldun said in about 1400 when comparing town dwellers with beduin “Those men protected by walls and garrisons, lose their uprightness and manliness”.
When one reads about the collapse of Rome and the lost of arab power within Islam it looks vary familiar.

Daniel P
Daniel P
1 year ago

At the end of the day……the German’s are gonna have to grow up.

They want to be an important power in that they can control and benefit from the EU and the Euro but they do not want the responsibility that comes with that. They like the economic advantages. They like the ability to steer things and basically dictate policy for Western Europe. They just do not want to pay the price those things come with.

They want to gripe about the US but they are the first ones to b***h when the US talks about backing off from guaranteeing European security. They are the first to complain (though it might be a tie with the French) about the US dominating the west and how the EU needs to be a balance to the US, but they are also the first to cry foul when the US talks about pulling military assets out of Europe and pivoting to Asia insisting on better trade (Germany is essentially a mecantilist country). They remind me of the US southern states that resisted the establishment of a Navy despite their economic dependence on the shipping centered in the North.

Honestly, I am kinda sick of the Europeans generally and the French and Germans particularly. Sick of their griping about the US, its culture, its power, its wealth and its military but all the while sucking off us for their security and for trade and for finance.

They want to go play footsie with the Chinese and the Russians? Ok. Get back to us and let us know how that worked out for ya.

Reminds me of that speech from A Few Good Men..

“I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
I would rather that you just said “thank you” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post. Either way, I don’t give a DAMN what you think you’re entitled to!”

Last edited 1 year ago by Daniel P
John Hicks
John Hicks
1 year ago

A significant concern can be observed watching the uncomfortable German Footballers in Qatar disinterestedly mouthing their National Anthem prior to wandering around the pitch in attack mode. They lost. And so does the Republic. Why? “National identity is the origin of the trust on which political order depends.” (Roger Scruton): may have something to do with it.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hicks

The “diversity is our strength” Germans losing to Japan and exiting the first round was one of the most hilarious bits of the world cup.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hicks

Was that before or after they posed for photos with hands over their mouths because they weren’t allowed to wear LGBT+ armbands? Shows where their priorities were.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hicks

The “diversity is our strength” Germans losing to Japan and exiting the first round was one of the most hilarious bits of the world cup.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hicks

Was that before or after they posed for photos with hands over their mouths because they weren’t allowed to wear LGBT+ armbands? Shows where their priorities were.

John Hicks
John Hicks
1 year ago

A significant concern can be observed watching the uncomfortable German Footballers in Qatar disinterestedly mouthing their National Anthem prior to wandering around the pitch in attack mode. They lost. And so does the Republic. Why? “National identity is the origin of the trust on which political order depends.” (Roger Scruton): may have something to do with it.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

I still can’t get past the part about Christine Lambrecht, the previous defense minister:
But her true talent was social media blunders, which included a post of her son riding in a military helicopter,…” 
ï»żHow utterly out of touch and symbolic of Western leadership in general.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

I thought her inspecting troops in the desert wearing stilettos was even funnier.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

I thought her inspecting troops in the desert wearing stilettos was even funnier.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

I still can’t get past the part about Christine Lambrecht, the previous defense minister:
But her true talent was social media blunders, which included a post of her son riding in a military helicopter,…” 
ï»żHow utterly out of touch and symbolic of Western leadership in general.

Peter Dennett
Peter Dennett
1 year ago

German leadership, just like other Western countries has slowly been deteriorating over decades. Here in the West, we have believed our own greatness that we won the Cold War. That the world will just fall in line and enjoy the liberal party.
They even replaced the Cold War threat of the USSR with the climate apocalypse. Yet they still fly around on private jets and the squillionaires still have their beach-houses and private islands. Even the media are joining in reinforcing the message. Yet the true problems remain ignored.
Things are going to get a whole lot worse because we still need to have gender parity and other discriminatory quotas. But once things get sufficiently bad, the West will get back onto the front foot and that is where are are at our best.
In essence, we are driving a car down the highway in cruise control with our feet up and out the window, the hat is over our faces and we are asleep at the wheel. The far left is in control and they are loving it. The Germans still have trauma about the Nazis and as long as this continues, the left will have the upper hand in Germany and this state of affairs will continue.

Peter Dennett
Peter Dennett
1 year ago

German leadership, just like other Western countries has slowly been deteriorating over decades. Here in the West, we have believed our own greatness that we won the Cold War. That the world will just fall in line and enjoy the liberal party.
They even replaced the Cold War threat of the USSR with the climate apocalypse. Yet they still fly around on private jets and the squillionaires still have their beach-houses and private islands. Even the media are joining in reinforcing the message. Yet the true problems remain ignored.
Things are going to get a whole lot worse because we still need to have gender parity and other discriminatory quotas. But once things get sufficiently bad, the West will get back onto the front foot and that is where are are at our best.
In essence, we are driving a car down the highway in cruise control with our feet up and out the window, the hat is over our faces and we are asleep at the wheel. The far left is in control and they are loving it. The Germans still have trauma about the Nazis and as long as this continues, the left will have the upper hand in Germany and this state of affairs will continue.

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago

$100 billion doesn’t sound like much to rebuild and maintain an army of any size. Unless there is significant follow-on spending.

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago

$100 billion doesn’t sound like much to rebuild and maintain an army of any size. Unless there is significant follow-on spending.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Russia will lose at least a million casualties in this war, arguably many more.
Putin is dead set on a spring offensive, and once that fails, an Autumn attack. Barring his fall, that’s just baked into the cake.
What we need to do is insure that these Russians die in vain.
Leopards do that.

Chris Keating
Chris Keating
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Britain has volunteered 14 tanks. 14. They could all be destroyed less than 14 minutes. It won’t end there as there will be more to come but in dribs and drabs. Enough to keep the pot boiling but never enough to do much more. Zelensky is a sucker, destroying his country, but somehow a western hero because he is prepared to allow the US to loot and plunder his country.
Meanwhile Britain is heading back to the third world of Dickens as it claims to have run out of money. Good luck

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

Don’t be silly.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

It seems he just can’t help it. Always the same nonsense.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

It seems he just can’t help it. Always the same nonsense.

harry storm
harry storm
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

If “Zelensky is a sucker,” than so is the majority of the Ukrainian population. What sort of effete Western dilettante calls the people of a nation fighting for its freedom and very life “suckers”?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

Heard it for the last 100 years.
“The greed of the Capitalists will destroy them!”
Evergreen…

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

Don’t be silly.

harry storm
harry storm
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

If “Zelensky is a sucker,” than so is the majority of the Ukrainian population. What sort of effete Western dilettante calls the people of a nation fighting for its freedom and very life “suckers”?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Keating

Heard it for the last 100 years.
“The greed of the Capitalists will destroy them!”
Evergreen…

Jeff Watkins
Jeff Watkins
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

It is important to go to reasonably independent sources who are interpreting the myriad of satellite images coming from Ukraine. What they are saying is that Ukraine has lost 100,000 troops (verified by VDL) Russian troops roughly same number. Russia has amassed about 350,000 troops in Belarus and the rest of front line another 250000 in reserve, also over 1000 latest tanks. So far this has been an artillery war and the Russian artillery ( 6 to 1 in favour of Russians) is far superior. The Russians are preparing for an offensive over the next few weeks. Nobody is able to predict exactly what they will do but whatever they do it will be too late to help Ukrainians.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Watkins

You must have some different sources of OSINT than the rest of the world. None of the known ones are saying anything like that.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Watkins

The ratio of shells fired is probably even worse than 6:1, if anything

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

That was the ratio in June. It’s far less now.
But don’t let reality get in the way of a cool meme.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

That was the ratio in June. It’s far less now.
But don’t let reality get in the way of a cool meme.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Watkins

I heard the Russian casualties are much lower and the Ukraine number is higher. Hard to know the truth

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

Source? 😉

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

Source? 😉

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Watkins

You must have some different sources of OSINT than the rest of the world. None of the known ones are saying anything like that.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Watkins

The ratio of shells fired is probably even worse than 6:1, if anything

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Watkins

I heard the Russian casualties are much lower and the Ukraine number is higher. Hard to know the truth

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

You realise the Leopards burnt like firecrackers in Turkey?

Or that Ukrainian casualties have been a multiple of Russian ones, thanks to packing soldiers on the front against a Russian force that’s based on using artillery to blast you off the face of the earth.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Sorry, the only successful assault, by Vagner, explicitly used human wave assaults, with little artillery back up.
Their target was Bakhmut, but they only captured Soledar.
But again, don’t let facts constrain you.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

“only” captured Soledar
“don’t let facts constrain you”

As the saying goes in the French diplomat circles, anyone who claims to know the Lebanon does not know the Lebanon….

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Any army that expends tens of thousands of lives in an attempt to take Bakhmut–and then has to settle for Soledar–is pathetic.
Russia’s corrupt and incompetent state is coming apart at the seams.
No chance of redemption this late.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

I find it confusing when you people state how incompetent and pathetic Russia is but at the same time telling us they are the greatest threat to the west. By this standard the Ukraine should have won this thing 6 times over by now.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

They are a threat if not comprehensively beaten now.
Putin waited 8 years to attack again in Donbas.
If we don’t destroy the Russian economy, they will just rearm and start it again in 8 years.
Thankfully, Putin is our greatest ally in this.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

They are a threat if not comprehensively beaten now.
Putin waited 8 years to attack again in Donbas.
If we don’t destroy the Russian economy, they will just rearm and start it again in 8 years.
Thankfully, Putin is our greatest ally in this.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

I find it confusing when you people state how incompetent and pathetic Russia is but at the same time telling us they are the greatest threat to the west. By this standard the Ukraine should have won this thing 6 times over by now.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Any army that expends tens of thousands of lives in an attempt to take Bakhmut–and then has to settle for Soledar–is pathetic.
Russia’s corrupt and incompetent state is coming apart at the seams.
No chance of redemption this late.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

“only” captured Soledar
“don’t let facts constrain you”

As the saying goes in the French diplomat circles, anyone who claims to know the Lebanon does not know the Lebanon….

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Jeez Samir you’ve lost the plot, and any grasp of facts, on this one.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Sorry, the only successful assault, by Vagner, explicitly used human wave assaults, with little artillery back up.
Their target was Bakhmut, but they only captured Soledar.
But again, don’t let facts constrain you.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Jeez Samir you’ve lost the plot, and any grasp of facts, on this one.

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

I believe that the offensive has already begun. Regular Russian army troops pushed the southern line back 7 km. the day before yesterday. There isn’t going to be anything like a spearhead attack into Ukraine west of the Dnieper.

Chris Keating
Chris Keating
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Britain has volunteered 14 tanks. 14. They could all be destroyed less than 14 minutes. It won’t end there as there will be more to come but in dribs and drabs. Enough to keep the pot boiling but never enough to do much more. Zelensky is a sucker, destroying his country, but somehow a western hero because he is prepared to allow the US to loot and plunder his country.
Meanwhile Britain is heading back to the third world of Dickens as it claims to have run out of money. Good luck

Jeff Watkins
Jeff Watkins
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

It is important to go to reasonably independent sources who are interpreting the myriad of satellite images coming from Ukraine. What they are saying is that Ukraine has lost 100,000 troops (verified by VDL) Russian troops roughly same number. Russia has amassed about 350,000 troops in Belarus and the rest of front line another 250000 in reserve, also over 1000 latest tanks. So far this has been an artillery war and the Russian artillery ( 6 to 1 in favour of Russians) is far superior. The Russians are preparing for an offensive over the next few weeks. Nobody is able to predict exactly what they will do but whatever they do it will be too late to help Ukrainians.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

You realise the Leopards burnt like firecrackers in Turkey?

Or that Ukrainian casualties have been a multiple of Russian ones, thanks to packing soldiers on the front against a Russian force that’s based on using artillery to blast you off the face of the earth.

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

I believe that the offensive has already begun. Regular Russian army troops pushed the southern line back 7 km. the day before yesterday. There isn’t going to be anything like a spearhead attack into Ukraine west of the Dnieper.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Russia will lose at least a million casualties in this war, arguably many more.
Putin is dead set on a spring offensive, and once that fails, an Autumn attack. Barring his fall, that’s just baked into the cake.
What we need to do is insure that these Russians die in vain.
Leopards do that.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago

Hard to be good at something when you don’t practice. War is no exception. Building, maintaining, training and supplying a military force is the practice for actual war, and if one slacks off in practice, it is likely to reflect in one’s actual performance when faced with the real thing. For decades, Germany basically didn’t practice for war because they didn’t expect to be in one, so of course they don’t look remotely competent even when all they’re expected to do is provide weapons to somebody else who does the actual fighting. Hard to blame the Germans three decades ago for letting another nation’s taxpayers pay for all their military needs. It had to be tempting to spend that money in other areas, given how governments find new ways to spend money as quickly and as abundantly as rabbits procreate. As with so many tragic mistakes, ‘it seemed like a good idea at the time’ certainly applies.

John Davis
John Davis
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

The (West) German army looked very capable during the Cold War. Problem is, they lost all interest in maintaining the combat readiness of the army after the fall of the USSR (along with most of Western Europe, to be fair).

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
Reply to  John Davis

Indeed. West Germany and post unification Germany are different political animals. Living under constant fear of a hostile immediate neighbor is a marvelous incentive for military preparedness (see South Korea) regardless of alliances. ‘The end of history’ sounded like an excuse to slack off, and they did, and as you point out, so did many others to various extents. Germany was probably the worst, but then they were at the center of ‘the end of history’ so it’s little surprise they drank more deeply of the globalist utopian kool aid than anybody else did. Even the USA drastically cut the size of its standing army over the years, to the point basically any ground conflict now requires calling out the reserves/national guard. The Iraq war greatly taxed America’s military personnel in terms of long deployments and extended tours of duty even for reservists. A significant amount of the public backlash came from the fact people who had signed up as reservists or guardsmen were being deployed in combat zones for years at a time in a war that wasn’t ‘supposed’ to require that sort of thing. Nothing really changed until very recently. China and Russia’s behavior over the last five to ten years have been a wake up call for a lot of governments, including the US government. History has resumed and everybody is now having to adjust, some more than others. .

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jolly
martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Sadly, it is 1914 and 1939 all over again.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Years someone said he dreaded the end of the Cold War as it simplified matters.One either supported the West or Communism. Post 1990 a whole myriad of conflicts based upon countries past history, religion, language, race, etc have re-surfaced.
Those people who went through WW2 and the Colonial Conflicts were dead or retired by early 1990s which was why Jugoslavia was a disaster. Noone in power in the West understood the history of the region and had fought in the Balkans.
Matters have become worse :Islamic Terrorism, Collapse of Soviet Union, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and now Putin. The reality is that the post 1960s affluent effete impractical university educated persons cannot understand why people take religion, history and/or race sufficiently seriously that one would die and kill for a cause.
It is very difficult for British and North American affluent, effete, impractical middle class people who are not worldly wise, to appreciate deeply imbedded are certain hatreds within the psyche of certain peoples.
When it comes to Germany how much of the decisions on energy and defence were influenced by those sympathetc to the USSR and then Russia?The savings on defence helped Germany become very successful as a manufacturing nation, exporting high value goods.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Sadly, it is 1914 and 1939 all over again.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Years someone said he dreaded the end of the Cold War as it simplified matters.One either supported the West or Communism. Post 1990 a whole myriad of conflicts based upon countries past history, religion, language, race, etc have re-surfaced.
Those people who went through WW2 and the Colonial Conflicts were dead or retired by early 1990s which was why Jugoslavia was a disaster. Noone in power in the West understood the history of the region and had fought in the Balkans.
Matters have become worse :Islamic Terrorism, Collapse of Soviet Union, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and now Putin. The reality is that the post 1960s affluent effete impractical university educated persons cannot understand why people take religion, history and/or race sufficiently seriously that one would die and kill for a cause.
It is very difficult for British and North American affluent, effete, impractical middle class people who are not worldly wise, to appreciate deeply imbedded are certain hatreds within the psyche of certain peoples.
When it comes to Germany how much of the decisions on energy and defence were influenced by those sympathetc to the USSR and then Russia?The savings on defence helped Germany become very successful as a manufacturing nation, exporting high value goods.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
Reply to  John Davis

Indeed. West Germany and post unification Germany are different political animals. Living under constant fear of a hostile immediate neighbor is a marvelous incentive for military preparedness (see South Korea) regardless of alliances. ‘The end of history’ sounded like an excuse to slack off, and they did, and as you point out, so did many others to various extents. Germany was probably the worst, but then they were at the center of ‘the end of history’ so it’s little surprise they drank more deeply of the globalist utopian kool aid than anybody else did. Even the USA drastically cut the size of its standing army over the years, to the point basically any ground conflict now requires calling out the reserves/national guard. The Iraq war greatly taxed America’s military personnel in terms of long deployments and extended tours of duty even for reservists. A significant amount of the public backlash came from the fact people who had signed up as reservists or guardsmen were being deployed in combat zones for years at a time in a war that wasn’t ‘supposed’ to require that sort of thing. Nothing really changed until very recently. China and Russia’s behavior over the last five to ten years have been a wake up call for a lot of governments, including the US government. History has resumed and everybody is now having to adjust, some more than others. .

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jolly
Andrew Shaw
Andrew Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Recalling that NATO was intended to keep Germany down (and Russia out, with USA in), the German “pacifism” trope — pro and con – is misconstrued by all, including German public pronouncements. *Nobody* wants a non-pacifistic, that is, bellicose, Germany. Everyone wants Germany to sit down and do what it’s told. Which in this instance means 1) stop cozying up to dictatorial Russia, 2) stop festering neo-Nazism in your own siloviki, 3) stop preventing Ukraine from defending itself from invading Russia w the feeble excuse “oh, but then we’d have to become a militaristic power”.

John Davis
John Davis
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

The (West) German army looked very capable during the Cold War. Problem is, they lost all interest in maintaining the combat readiness of the army after the fall of the USSR (along with most of Western Europe, to be fair).

Andrew Shaw
Andrew Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Recalling that NATO was intended to keep Germany down (and Russia out, with USA in), the German “pacifism” trope — pro and con – is misconstrued by all, including German public pronouncements. *Nobody* wants a non-pacifistic, that is, bellicose, Germany. Everyone wants Germany to sit down and do what it’s told. Which in this instance means 1) stop cozying up to dictatorial Russia, 2) stop festering neo-Nazism in your own siloviki, 3) stop preventing Ukraine from defending itself from invading Russia w the feeble excuse “oh, but then we’d have to become a militaristic power”.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago

Hard to be good at something when you don’t practice. War is no exception. Building, maintaining, training and supplying a military force is the practice for actual war, and if one slacks off in practice, it is likely to reflect in one’s actual performance when faced with the real thing. For decades, Germany basically didn’t practice for war because they didn’t expect to be in one, so of course they don’t look remotely competent even when all they’re expected to do is provide weapons to somebody else who does the actual fighting. Hard to blame the Germans three decades ago for letting another nation’s taxpayers pay for all their military needs. It had to be tempting to spend that money in other areas, given how governments find new ways to spend money as quickly and as abundantly as rabbits procreate. As with so many tragic mistakes, ‘it seemed like a good idea at the time’ certainly applies.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago

So, it looks like a couple of ladies dropped into the defense minister position have managed to achieve in a few years what most of Europe have tried and failed to do in centuries – disarm Germany.
Truly appointing more females does wonders at promoting peace.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

I loled at this, but I must say that peace is not simply an absence of war. Women are no less prone to conflict than men, but tend to pursue such conflict using less direct methods. It’s well documented that women are much less likely to commit murder or suicide using firearms, for example. Not sure it follows that the world is more ‘peaceful’ with women in charge. There’s plenty of ways to inflict suffering that fall short of actual violence.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

If the workplace is anything to go by it involves more backbiting.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

If the workplace is anything to go by it involves more backbiting.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

I loled at this, but I must say that peace is not simply an absence of war. Women are no less prone to conflict than men, but tend to pursue such conflict using less direct methods. It’s well documented that women are much less likely to commit murder or suicide using firearms, for example. Not sure it follows that the world is more ‘peaceful’ with women in charge. There’s plenty of ways to inflict suffering that fall short of actual violence.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago

So, it looks like a couple of ladies dropped into the defense minister position have managed to achieve in a few years what most of Europe have tried and failed to do in centuries – disarm Germany.
Truly appointing more females does wonders at promoting peace.

Jeanie K
Jeanie K
1 year ago

“Does Olaf Scholz expect America to clear up Europe’s mess?”
Why not? It was (as usual) the Americans who caused it.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeanie K

Their invasion on 24 Feb was the last straw!

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

I see we have a bunch of down-voters who have a hard time admitting that it was the Russians who invaded Ukraine.
The Russian propaganda line du jour is that NATO laid a trap for Russia, and practically forced Russia to invade. I don’t think that’s accurate, but let’s assume (for the sake of discussion) that it is. All that means is that Putin fell straight into the trap that had supposedly been laid for him.
I don’t think that’s accurate; it’s hard to read “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians” and come away without thinking that Putin saw this as part of re-creating the glory of a previous Russia.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

I see we have a bunch of down-voters who have a hard time admitting that it was the Russians who invaded Ukraine.
The Russian propaganda line du jour is that NATO laid a trap for Russia, and practically forced Russia to invade. I don’t think that’s accurate, but let’s assume (for the sake of discussion) that it is. All that means is that Putin fell straight into the trap that had supposedly been laid for him.
I don’t think that’s accurate; it’s hard to read “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians” and come away without thinking that Putin saw this as part of re-creating the glory of a previous Russia.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeanie K

Their invasion on 24 Feb was the last straw!

Jeanie K
Jeanie K
1 year ago

“Does Olaf Scholz expect America to clear up Europe’s mess?”
Why not? It was (as usual) the Americans who caused it.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Most of the people who peddle “secret knowledge” about the war (like Michael Savage) have their own anti-establishment agendas that ahve nothing to do with Ukraine.
If you want REAL info about the war, simply go to Strelkov’s telegram channel:
https://t.me/s/strelkovii
Run it through google translate and see what a PRO-WAR Russian is saying about his nation’s prospects.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Most of the people who peddle “secret knowledge” about the war (like Michael Savage) have their own anti-establishment agendas that ahve nothing to do with Ukraine.
If you want REAL info about the war, simply go to Strelkov’s telegram channel:
https://t.me/s/strelkovii
Run it through google translate and see what a PRO-WAR Russian is saying about his nation’s prospects.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

What’s pretty clear is that the SPD has been cozying up to Russia for decades. All that Russian cash extracted from the Govniks went a long way.
And the FSB has been recording every SPD member.
Scholz is well aware that a few well-placed videos and documents would ruin many in his party. Then his govt falls.
So he is in an impossible position.
It’s written on his face everyday.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

What’s pretty clear is that the SPD has been cozying up to Russia for decades. All that Russian cash extracted from the Govniks went a long way.
And the FSB has been recording every SPD member.
Scholz is well aware that a few well-placed videos and documents would ruin many in his party. Then his govt falls.
So he is in an impossible position.
It’s written on his face everyday.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

No, there aren’t 1000s of T-90s waiting in the Urals. Nor will 1000s be built. Russia’s main tank production involves EXPORT tanks like the T-72, which are no better than what Ukraine has now.
This war will cost Russia a million men–and the ensuing civil war will mean another 2 million dead or maimed. Those that have been at the front for months sometimes die from gangrene, not having been able to change their uniforms. Most of the wounded stay near the front, where medical care is limited. Which is why the dead to wounded ration is one to one–far worse than any western army in WW2.
The problem is that Muscovy never really should have existed. Kyiv or Great Novgorod were far superior civilisations. Every significant war that the Russian Empire has fought either ends in disaster, or with heaps of its own soldiers slain. Which is why ALL 14 of the former Soviet states now fear and despise Moscow. Even Serbia and China conveniently shy away from any support.
Anyone with brains or a sense of honour has already left Russia, and, once the craven remainder fear THEY are going to the front, the whole system will collapse.
All we can do is be ready to quarantine ourselves from the vermin that crawl out from under the rubble.
We had that chance in 1991.
But we blew it.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Profligate use of mass has always been the Russian way of war. They don’t seem to realize that their demographic situation has changed.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Profligate use of mass has always been the Russian way of war. They don’t seem to realize that their demographic situation has changed.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

No, there aren’t 1000s of T-90s waiting in the Urals. Nor will 1000s be built. Russia’s main tank production involves EXPORT tanks like the T-72, which are no better than what Ukraine has now.
This war will cost Russia a million men–and the ensuing civil war will mean another 2 million dead or maimed. Those that have been at the front for months sometimes die from gangrene, not having been able to change their uniforms. Most of the wounded stay near the front, where medical care is limited. Which is why the dead to wounded ration is one to one–far worse than any western army in WW2.
The problem is that Muscovy never really should have existed. Kyiv or Great Novgorod were far superior civilisations. Every significant war that the Russian Empire has fought either ends in disaster, or with heaps of its own soldiers slain. Which is why ALL 14 of the former Soviet states now fear and despise Moscow. Even Serbia and China conveniently shy away from any support.
Anyone with brains or a sense of honour has already left Russia, and, once the craven remainder fear THEY are going to the front, the whole system will collapse.
All we can do is be ready to quarantine ourselves from the vermin that crawl out from under the rubble.
We had that chance in 1991.
But we blew it.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago

Perhaps they see the reality of what is actually going on over there. Suggest two podcasts of Michael Savage interviewing Douglas MacGregor. It’s rather eye opening.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

Michael Savage, “the far-right author, conspiracy theorist, political commentator, activist, and former radio host.”
THAT Michael Savage?

Pierre Mauboussin
Pierre Mauboussin
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

MacGregor has a 100% track record on Ukraine: of being wrong. He’s an American Coriolanus, spurned of the honors due him by his own country, he has now turned against it.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

Michael Savage, “the far-right author, conspiracy theorist, political commentator, activist, and former radio host.”
THAT Michael Savage?

Pierre Mauboussin
Pierre Mauboussin
1 year ago
Reply to  Kat L

MacGregor has a 100% track record on Ukraine: of being wrong. He’s an American Coriolanus, spurned of the honors due him by his own country, he has now turned against it.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago

Perhaps they see the reality of what is actually going on over there. Suggest two podcasts of Michael Savage interviewing Douglas MacGregor. It’s rather eye opening.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago

Germany seems to have gone from one extreme (1939) to another.
You don’t get to live in the world as you wish it were (an admonition one could/should aim at all sorts of groups today); you have to inhabit in the world that really is. You don’t have any choice in the matter.
The observations about the military budget, and the desire not to deplete its arms inventory, are true enough, but how much is it going to cost Germany to let others ship their Leopard II’s to Ukraine?
That’s the dark truth at the root of Germany’s current situation.
1944-45 was understandably deeply traumatic, but ‘checking out’ of the real world is “not an option”.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago

Germany seems to have gone from one extreme (1939) to another.
You don’t get to live in the world as you wish it were (an admonition one could/should aim at all sorts of groups today); you have to inhabit in the world that really is. You don’t have any choice in the matter.
The observations about the military budget, and the desire not to deplete its arms inventory, are true enough, but how much is it going to cost Germany to let others ship their Leopard II’s to Ukraine?
That’s the dark truth at the root of Germany’s current situation.
1944-45 was understandably deeply traumatic, but ‘checking out’ of the real world is “not an option”.

Kerry Davie
Kerry Davie
1 year ago

‘…..a pedantic military official once noticed, while purchasing tanks, that they didn’t have mirrors that conformed to the German highway code — so he or she absolutely insisted on getting them installed,….’
A wonderfully comic interlude in an otherwise serious and somewhat sobering article.

Kerry Davie
Kerry Davie
1 year ago

‘…..a pedantic military official once noticed, while purchasing tanks, that they didn’t have mirrors that conformed to the German highway code — so he or she absolutely insisted on getting them installed,….’
A wonderfully comic interlude in an otherwise serious and somewhat sobering article.

Bruni Schling
Bruni Schling
1 year ago

I have not finished reading this article. I am flabberghasted by the lack of any consideration how the German population feel about sending weapons to Ukraine.The country is equally divided between pro and anti weapon deliveries. Our past wheighs down heavily on many German citizens, including me, even though I have lived in the UK for 50 years. What from a certain ideological point of view is desirable as German conduct in a war is no business of anybody else but the Germans themselves..

Su Mac
Su Mac
1 year ago

Perhaps they have realised that if they send them they will be gone in a week and they don’t have the spare energy to make any more.
I see on ZeroHedge this week an article about the Wikileaks of cables showing the US at least understood the eastern expansion of NATO was a provocation, against documented agreements and a clear threat to future European peace. What America wants America gets. For now.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/dozens-wikileaks-cables-show-us-knew-nato-expansion-was-russias-bright-red-line

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

What utter, utter nonsense. There are around 2000 Leopard II tanks in Europe today. You simply have no idea what you’re talking about and are just exposing your ignorance here.

harry storm
harry storm
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

What you call a “provocation” I call hearing the pleas from democratic countries formerly under the Russian boot and afraid it would stomp all over them again. How awful to support their independence.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

“Fair and balanced” news source, obviously…

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

Few start a fight if they know they re going to lose. Yes, the USA did not understand the humiliation Russia felt post 1990, but reduction in defence capability; banning of shale gas and inaction over Georgia, then Crimea, indicated to Putin that there would no significant consequences if he invaded Ukraine.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

What utter, utter nonsense. There are around 2000 Leopard II tanks in Europe today. You simply have no idea what you’re talking about and are just exposing your ignorance here.

harry storm
harry storm
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

What you call a “provocation” I call hearing the pleas from democratic countries formerly under the Russian boot and afraid it would stomp all over them again. How awful to support their independence.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

“Fair and balanced” news source, obviously…

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Su Mac

Few start a fight if they know they re going to lose. Yes, the USA did not understand the humiliation Russia felt post 1990, but reduction in defence capability; banning of shale gas and inaction over Georgia, then Crimea, indicated to Putin that there would no significant consequences if he invaded Ukraine.

Su Mac
Su Mac
1 year ago

Perhaps they have realised that if they send them they will be gone in a week and they don’t have the spare energy to make any more.
I see on ZeroHedge this week an article about the Wikileaks of cables showing the US at least understood the eastern expansion of NATO was a provocation, against documented agreements and a clear threat to future European peace. What America wants America gets. For now.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/dozens-wikileaks-cables-show-us-knew-nato-expansion-was-russias-bright-red-line

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

This war will cost Russia at least a million casualties.
If there is a spring offensive, the Russian army will have to attack. Moreover, with casualty rates of 3 to 1, it will destroy a whole generation of Russians, and stop someplace west of Bakhmut.
(No they don’t have 1000s of T-90s in storage. If so, Putin would have used them long before now. His army will be staffed by poorly trained junior officers and men–facing Ukrainians trained in the best combat schools the West has)
The offensive will fail, and we will be faced with another year of war. A whole generation of Govniks will simply cease to exist–incinerated in Putin’s mobile crematoriums. Can’t afford to pay all those “death benefits.” No nation could.
Putin is delusional, and no other Russian can have any effect on this war.
The only path to peace is a quick Ukrainian victory.

Coralie Palmer
Coralie Palmer
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Thank you for talking informed sense on this issue. It’s astonishing the number of commenters who think that Russia was ‘provoked’, and who also seem unaware of Russia’s demographic collapse. The male population has been drinking itself to death for 40 years. So Putin’s attempt to crank up the numbers like it’s 1941 is doomed.

Coralie Palmer
Coralie Palmer
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

Thank you for talking informed sense on this issue. It’s astonishing the number of commenters who think that Russia was ‘provoked’, and who also seem unaware of Russia’s demographic collapse. The male population has been drinking itself to death for 40 years. So Putin’s attempt to crank up the numbers like it’s 1941 is doomed.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

This war will cost Russia at least a million casualties.
If there is a spring offensive, the Russian army will have to attack. Moreover, with casualty rates of 3 to 1, it will destroy a whole generation of Russians, and stop someplace west of Bakhmut.
(No they don’t have 1000s of T-90s in storage. If so, Putin would have used them long before now. His army will be staffed by poorly trained junior officers and men–facing Ukrainians trained in the best combat schools the West has)
The offensive will fail, and we will be faced with another year of war. A whole generation of Govniks will simply cease to exist–incinerated in Putin’s mobile crematoriums. Can’t afford to pay all those “death benefits.” No nation could.
Putin is delusional, and no other Russian can have any effect on this war.
The only path to peace is a quick Ukrainian victory.

Helen Goethals
Helen Goethals
1 year ago

This article comes under the heading”analysis”? Looks like warmongering to me, and unhelpful to the German people who surely have better things to spend their money on. As for the poor Ukrainian people, “lethal aid” is exactly that.

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Goethals

Better things to spend their money on? Yes and Germany has plenty of money having devalued the Deutche Mark in order to gain an unfair export advantage in the EEC as well as making all the rules suit them. Cosying up with Russia for massive oil discounts?

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Goethals

I suggest you let the Ukrainian people decide what help they want.

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Goethals

Better things to spend their money on? Yes and Germany has plenty of money having devalued the Deutche Mark in order to gain an unfair export advantage in the EEC as well as making all the rules suit them. Cosying up with Russia for massive oil discounts?

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Goethals

I suggest you let the Ukrainian people decide what help they want.

Helen Goethals
Helen Goethals
1 year ago

This article comes under the heading”analysis”? Looks like warmongering to me, and unhelpful to the German people who surely have better things to spend their money on. As for the poor Ukrainian people, “lethal aid” is exactly that.

Filipa Antonia Barata de Araujo
Filipa Antonia Barata de Araujo
1 year ago

You mean the war Biden kinks on? Its just that Germany knows thus war exists because the US want it.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Why, oh why, did Biden attack Russia on 24 Feb 2022?
It astonished Putin so much he just had to expel the US Army from Ukraine.
(which planet does this stuff come from? It’s certainly not earth, or even Mars)

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

You have to give Putin credit; his military is incompetent and corrupt, but their propaganda people are somewhat more competent – as can be seen by the ‘hooked fish’ in this comments section.
There’s an amusing parallel between now and the 1930’s; the “useful idiots” back then were people who, blindly following their ideology, were ready to swallow anything – back then, in service of Communism, which had become the ‘bright and shiny object’ of the Russians. But the inability of people to see reality hasn’t improved.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

You have to give Putin credit; his military is incompetent and corrupt, but their propaganda people are somewhat more competent – as can be seen by the ‘hooked fish’ in this comments section.
There’s an amusing parallel between now and the 1930’s; the “useful idiots” back then were people who, blindly following their ideology, were ready to swallow anything – back then, in service of Communism, which had become the ‘bright and shiny object’ of the Russians. But the inability of people to see reality hasn’t improved.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Why, oh why, did Biden attack Russia on 24 Feb 2022?
It astonished Putin so much he just had to expel the US Army from Ukraine.
(which planet does this stuff come from? It’s certainly not earth, or even Mars)

Filipa Antonia Barata de Araujo
Filipa Antonia Barata de Araujo
1 year ago

You mean the war Biden kinks on? Its just that Germany knows thus war exists because the US want it.

JĂŒrg Gassmann
JĂŒrg Gassmann
1 year ago