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The American experiment has just begun Jean Baudrillard's 'America'

Anti-Americanism is a trap (Brent Stirton/Getty Images)

Anti-Americanism is a trap (Brent Stirton/Getty Images)


December 20, 2022   6 mins

“The anti-American obsession: it’s all in me, I confess. America is terrifying. Its internal unbalances appear extreme (economic, cultural, racial), an unimaginable fragility. It concerns us closely as a mirror of the future — our future, if we still have one.”

Thus ran the closing paragraph of a letter the Belgian Sinologist Pierre Ryckmans — known under the pen name “Simon Leys” — wrote to his French friend Pierre Boncenne in 2008. As Leys admitted, French interest in the United States had an old lineage. Since the 1770s, thinkers such Alexis de Tocqueville, Joseph de Maistre, and Hector de CrĂšvecoeur had both been repulsed and attracted by the exploits of the post-revolutionary US. “America is often cited to us,” de Maistre exclaimed in the 1790s, but “I know nothing so provoking as the praise showered on this babe-in-arms. Let it grow”.

De Maistre’s coordinates began to shift towards the close of the 20th century. In the Eighties, French sub-intellectuals such as Bernard-Henri LĂ©vy followed Tocqueville with immemorable memoirs such as American Vertigo. As an anti-Gaullist, LĂ©vy clearly took a much softer stance on American civilisation than many of his countrymen. In the Forties, French novelist George Bernanos still saw the utopia imagined by Americans as “little more than some little Yankee boot-black eating his sugared peanuts — a half-Saxon, half-Jew, rat-faced prairie-dog with who-knows-what negro ancestor at the core of his itching marrow”. The only hero the Americans were capable of producing was the “future king of Steel, Rubber, Oil, the Truster of Trusts, the future master of a standardised planet, that god which the universe is awaiting, the god of the Godless universe”. Here was the American dream — a crazed nightmare from which France should wake up as soon as possible.

Today, this rabid anti-Americanism has given way to a more complex pattern of exchange. On top of its dollar stream and Hollywood movies, the US has been busily exporting its culture wars, from gender to racial justice to abortion debates. As Daniel Zamora has noted, these have redrawn cleavages along the way. The result has been a silent Americanisation on both sides of the political spectrum: Le Pen followers import Republican culture language about the dangers of “wokeness”, while Macron followers take their cues from Clintonism. After the Second World War, European reactionaries such as Bernanos worried that everyone would become American in a “positive” sense. Today, Americanisation continues through anti-Americanism: a “negative Americanisation”, where even the most rabid anti-Americans are as American as can be.

Jean Baudrillard’s America (1986) — a travelogue the philosopher compiled after a series of stays in the country in the late Seventies and early Eighties, spanning the end of the Carter presidency and the start of the Reagan years — does not stray in either direction. Instead of adulation, Baudrillard took a more forensic approach. He wanted to understand the US on its own terms. French resistance to Americanisation was not only futile, in his view, but also actively harmful. It delayed a reckoning with a distant mirror: like Tocqueville, one had to treat America as a sign of things to come, evincing a high tolerance of ambiguity without ever falling into declinism. Rather than allergically rejecting the US, Baudrillard asked: what is America the name of? What made this necessary?

Baudrillard drew on a much older tradition of French moralism with this approach. Since Montaigne, French philosophers have used the New World to relativise the prejudices of their own societies, but also to assert superiority. Patrician to the core, this latter attitude approached the US much like the Comte de Bouffon approached 18th-century America — a continent in which a humid climate induced permanent nervosity, an argument about New World degeneracy which motivated Thomas Jefferson to write his Notes on the State of Virginia (1785). France and America might have been twins, but they were not of the same age.

Baudrillard’s background on the Left played its own role in this transmission. His time at Guy Debord’s French Situationist International — the New Left formation which contested both official communism and the state elite in the Sixties — informed his critiques of consumer culture. Debord was no populist: rather than a high tide of worker power, he saw les trente glorieuses as a period of total capitalist triumph, in which commerce had extinguished the Frankish warrior spirit. Baudrillard followed these cues in America. Like Tocqueville and Debord, he came to the US as an aristocrat in a peasants’ clothing, looking both down and up. The chaotic clash between ancien rĂ©gime and modernity birthed a culture shock; on this tension Baudrillard drew, peering at the new world with a vantage point from within the old.

Baudrillard never became American. He remained an eternal stranger. But this sovereign indifference granted him a distance necessary for social analysis. Add to this a tremendously French sense of style — his diaristic entries are written with a verve and rhythmicity unequalled in contemporary social science — and we are apt to understand the continuing appeal of his works in the 2020s. Purely on form, Baudrillard has held up.

Baudrillard’s oeuvre is sizeable. The Cool Memories series (1987-2004) remains as timely as ever, and his comments on the Gulf War prefigure today’s discussion on the digital “hyper-real”. The Divine Left (1985) predicted the French Left’s disarray before Hollande. So why read America, particularly in 2022? Why go for a testimony of the age of Reagan in the age of Biden, when the Eighties are confusingly far away? Are we not witnessing an empire in decline, a dying supernova which sends its light across the universe before it implodes? Read in this way, it makes little sense to grant Baudrillard’s America a prime place.

Yet things are not that simple. The Reaganite boom and supply-side economics are no longer with us. The current head of the Federal Reserve is hardly Paul Volcker. The unipolar Nineties which Baudrillard registered are far away. But America is hardly gone. Rather than fade from view, the United States have weathered the new century with a ruthless tenacity and gusto. As Adam Tooze  has argued, the US has clung on to external power while continuing to manage internal decline — a tree growing despite fungi hollowing out its trunk.

Nothing exemplifies this better than the current Russian invasion. The result of Putin’s war has been a full-blown “return of the king”, as Wolfgang Streeck has noted, with European industry and security policy subordinate to American geopolitical imperatives. To some Europeanists, it feels as if the EU is effectively run from Langley, Virginia. Energy costs are destabilising the German export model. Dollar supremacy is stronger than ever. The biggest army in human history is now trying to reshore its industry. Liquid gas supplies find their way to Stuttgart. The result is a dazzling compound: late imperial Rome with a stock exchange and nuclear weapons, and the same spectacle of public acclamations that accompanied the crepuscules of the pagan world.

The result also is a vertiginously unbalanced form of hegemony. In 2016, theorists proclaimed the “end of the American century”. Today, the Trumpite interlude has revealed itself as exactly that — an interlude — and Biden continued to decouple supply chains. Ironically, the anti-Trump has doubled down on Trumpism without Trump. The politics of other developed nations are also Americanising, with Germany now holding regular BLM rallies and trans controversies a recurrent feature of many European public debates. The hollow universality of American culture induces both despair and comfort: in its vulgarity, the greatest promises of capitalism express themselves, from diversity to social mobility, while its sorrows, from extreme poverty to the marketisation of the self, stand out as ominous warnings.

All this grants Baudrillard’s book a refreshing contemporaneity. From Silicon Valley to evangelicalism to Trump to polyamory to the military-industrial complex: each receives due mention in America, placed in a stream of consciousness that makes up the book’s main body:

“Take this white Christ carrying a heavy cross down Main Street, Venice. It is a very hot day. You want to tell him it has already been done, 2,000 years ago. But he is not trying to do anything new. He is just carrying his cross the same way as other people carry ‘Jesus Saves’ or ‘Know Jesus’ badges on their cars. You could point out that no one — not a single person — is watching, and that he is accorded only indifference and derision as he passes. But he would tell you that was exactly how it was 2,000 years ago.”

Compare these to a description of a flight into Los Angeles, a “luminous, geometric, incandescent immensity, stretching as far as the eye can see, bursting out from the cracks in the clouds. Only Hieronymus Bosch’s hell can match this inferno effect.” “Once you are beyond the mountain”, however,

“a city ten times larger hits you. You will never have encountered anything that stretches as far as this… The irregular, scattered flickering of European cities does not produce the same parallel lines, the same vanishing points, the same aerial perspectives either. They are medieval cities. This one condenses by night the entire future geometry of the networks of human relations, gleaming in their abstraction, luminous in their extension, astral in their reproduction to infinity.”

Such paragraphs are interspersed with a cooler assessment of the United States as the first nation to arrive in post-history. Here is “the post-orgy world”, “the electronic tribalism of Silicon Valley”, with its “reduced pace of work, decentralisation, air-conditioning, soft technologies”. “Culture itself is a desert there,” he notes about California, “and culture has to be a desert so that everything can be equal and shine out in the same supernatural form.” This might be “paradise”, Baudrillard concluded, “but a very slight modification, a change of just a few degrees, would suffice to make it seem like hell”. Do we possess a more vivid depiction of the US in 2022?

Anti-Americanism might be a moral imperative for Europeans. It certainly is satisfying. But a disinterest in the US is hard to justify politically, let alone strategically expedient. As Nick Burns noted in a reflection on America, Baudrillard’s real message is that “we have to perform American experiments on ourselves”. Baudrillard’s book is Democracy in America for the coming century.  For better and for worse, America’s politics are our politics, and the only way out is always through, as Baudrillard already concluded in 1982.


Anton JĂ€ger is a postdoctoral researcher at the Catholic University of Leuven in Belgium. He is the co-author of Welfare for Markets: A Global History of Basic Income.

AntonJaegermm

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Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
1 year ago

I’d say that the way to understand Yank-ology right now is to understand that we are going through a reign of terror / great purge / cultural revolution for the same reason as the French, Bolshevik and Maoist revolutions.
When the revolutions runs aground and Make Things Worse, the revolutionaries start searching everywhere for the dastardly enemy that wrecked the revolution.
That is what is happening here in the US in our cancel culture as the wokies search high and low for the enemies that are killing the climate and systematizing racism. Because, as you sophisticated Euros well know, there is no politics without an enemy.
See you all after the show.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

I agree that there are parallels to the Reign of Terror in leftist corners, but in a rather mild way compared to 1790s France. There are also rising strains of hardcore ethno-nationalism on the American far right. But none of this bares more than a remote connection to any of the actual, full-scale revolutions/purges you cited, nor the fascist ones you overlooked.
How can a revolution that has never happened and remains aspirational among would-be revolutionaries already have moved into post-revolutionary aftermath?
Even so, I acknowledge that we’re in a overheated climate of vilification and outrage here, and that both ideological zealots and those who oppose them behave in ways that can mirror major violent conflict. I’m still hopeful the temperature can be lowered before real American carnage is ramped up to a far bloodier level, with many of the surviving losers nursing a bloodthirsty grudge for ages.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Two points:
1. It is not the first time America moved from phase one to phase three, missing out the important middle bit (full scale revolution). Gandhi regarded America as the only major nation that moved from savagery to decadence without the customary period of civilization on the middle!
2. American carnage is everywhere (except for the US itself) with a death toll in the many mllions all around, not unlike ancient Rome’s bloodthirsty campaigns in Gall, Spain, Cartage etc.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

1) A clever quip that dismisses all Indigenous Americans as savages and ignores the rude civilization of early European refugees to these shores–not all were brutal or stupid.
2) Anti-American Exceptionalism on steroids: not only is the influence of American a complex net-positive or net-negative, but the world would be some kind of comparative wonderland if it went away or had never existed. And Gaul and Carthage…really?! The U.S. is not in a period of territorial expansion and has done very little of that (across seas) in its history, unlike Rome or Britain at its height.
We export our largely garbage culture and intervene elsewhere almost at will, true, but those intrusions are often requested or agreed to. In other words, even anti-Americans often welcome military aid in an existential crisis, and no one is required by law to consume our junk food and crass entertainment.
That said, I get that there’s a lot that’s contemptible and repugnant about the country I live in, sometimes to an exceptional degree. Here’s where I mention my Canadian young-childhood years and dual-citizenship and try to seem different or special in a good way.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

If people want US help, that’s fine. If they get threatened if they refuse it, that’s when it’s time for that bunch of global bullies to have Operation Shock N Awe take place in their own homeland.
You lot need to learn what being bombed repeatedly feels like.
You had national hysterics post 9-11.
You don’t really have very big Cojones, do you?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Nice job to reduce a nation to a set of nuts, refer to 330 million people as “you” and “you lot”, regard them as interchangeable with the national government, and recommended that we need to get bombed into our senses.
Do You have any more lessons in manhood or good-faith argumentation to share? Enjoy your Sunday evening.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I guess the kicking you got in Vietnam (despite the 3,000,000 mostly innocent Vietnames deaths) was a good enough lesson.. though I’m still not convinced you learned from it. A further million annihilated in Iraq to rid it of nonexistent WMDs and your expeditions in Libya, Somalia.
Maybe Rhys Jagger is right? If you were to be incessantly bombed like you do all around the world you might behave differently?

Last edited 1 year ago by Liam O'Mahony
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

What if I held you individually responsible for every Sinn Fein bombing, priestly abuse, and stereotypical Irish drunkard? I wouldn’t, but that’s a lot like the way you rant away and point your digital fingers at me man. Troll-like and unhinged in tone.
My last response to you is this: the Vietnam War was a tragic mistake with massive repercussions including an accelerated breakdown of the social order (such as it was) in the US–it couldn’t hold and had to change but it happened too fast.
But was the US involvement and body count in both World Wars something you have any respect for, at least to feed your seeming appetite for American deaths?

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Deb Grant
Deb Grant
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

They are behaving differently: they’re not bombing Russia.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

What if I held you individually responsible for every Sinn Fein bombing, priestly abuse, and stereotypical Irish drunkard? I wouldn’t, but that’s a lot like the way you rant away and point your digital fingers at me man. Troll-like and unhinged in tone.
My last response to you is this: the Vietnam War was a tragic mistake with massive repercussions including an accelerated breakdown of the social order (such as it was) in the US–it couldn’t hold and had to change but it happened too fast.
But was the US involvement and body count in both World Wars something you have any respect for, at least to feed your seeming appetite for American deaths?

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Deb Grant
Deb Grant
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

They are behaving differently: they’re not bombing Russia.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I guess the kicking you got in Vietnam (despite the 3,000,000 mostly innocent Vietnames deaths) was a good enough lesson.. though I’m still not convinced you learned from it. A further million annihilated in Iraq to rid it of nonexistent WMDs and your expeditions in Libya, Somalia.
Maybe Rhys Jagger is right? If you were to be incessantly bombed like you do all around the world you might behave differently?

Last edited 1 year ago by Liam O'Mahony
Samuel Ross
Samuel Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Huh? Huh? Huh?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Nice job to reduce a nation to a set of nuts, refer to 330 million people as “you” and “you lot”, regard them as interchangeable with the national government, and recommended that we need to get bombed into our senses.
Do You have any more lessons in manhood or good-faith argumentation to share? Enjoy your Sunday evening.

Samuel Ross
Samuel Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Huh? Huh? Huh?

philip kern
philip kern
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I agree with much of what you say, but wonder about the significance of territorial expansion in the modern world. Has the US ceded such ambitions to China in favour of other forms of dominance? After all, in today’s world, space on the map is secondary to other forms of domination (and is more politically acceptable). The US government doesn’t even need to win space on its own map, much less outside its borders. I’m open to being convinced otherwise.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  philip kern

I suspect you know more about geo-politics than I do (I might be pretty tuned-in for an American–a very low bar). I certainly don’t think the US should try to get away with territorial expansion, either from an ethical or strategic standpoint.
We need to get along with one another much better here in the US instead of trying to export our self-vaunted aspirations and systems around the globe. And if we do manage to fall less short of our ideals here at home, we should still learn to “play well with others” around the world, which is something I think we deserve low marks for on the whole.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Sorry; no marks.. in fact a negative score. Your exploitation, murder, mayhem, regime toppling, installation of corrupt regimes and cruel sanctions etc is so reprehensible it fully deserves the term Great Satan.. no matter how sanitised and MSM-supported it is. Happily it’s over, or almost.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Sorry; no marks.. in fact a negative score. Your exploitation, murder, mayhem, regime toppling, installation of corrupt regimes and cruel sanctions etc is so reprehensible it fully deserves the term Great Satan.. no matter how sanitised and MSM-supported it is. Happily it’s over, or almost.

Tony Walker
Tony Walker
1 year ago
Reply to  philip kern

You people need to get out more. Really! Where to start? The US controls NATO, which gives it immense influence over Western Europe, with military bases holding around 60 thousand active-duty US troops in Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK. Then there are multiple bases in Japan, South Korea, Australia (my country, which is currently being pressured to cede more of its sovereignty by housing increasing numbers of US troops and aircraft, buying US nuclear-powered submarines and integrating itself into US military forces, doubtless under US military direction), and the Pacific and Indian Oceans with another 100 thousand or so troops, not to mention Bahrain and UAE with 8 thousand troops, plus scattered garrisons throughout the world. Then there are the extensive covert forces that exist to pressure, interfere with and even topple governments – democratic or otherwise – that don’t quite see the US point of view as clearly as they could. Add to this military might US cultural industries and continuing economic influence through the globally dominant US dollar, and you see US imperial power, or, as it’s rather cutely called, “the rules-based international order”. While US democracy might be in decline, it clearly has no intention of ceding territory, which may end up being a chilling formulation for the rest of the world.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tony Walker
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Walker

You put it perfectly!

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Walker

Germans campaigned vehemently against the removal of American troops from its soil, when Trump suggested it. There has to be agreements from governments to be occupied. It seems to take two to tango.

TERRY JESSOP
TERRY JESSOP
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Walker

Oh, Tony Walker! As a fellow Australian I suggest that you pull your head in. I find your anti-American clap-trap quite repugnant. Tell us how you feel about the United States making war on Ukraine, or reclaiming shallow reefs in international waters to set up military bases? Oh, I forgot. That is not the U.S. it is other countries!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Walker

You put it perfectly!

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Walker

Germans campaigned vehemently against the removal of American troops from its soil, when Trump suggested it. There has to be agreements from governments to be occupied. It seems to take two to tango.

TERRY JESSOP
TERRY JESSOP
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Walker

Oh, Tony Walker! As a fellow Australian I suggest that you pull your head in. I find your anti-American clap-trap quite repugnant. Tell us how you feel about the United States making war on Ukraine, or reclaiming shallow reefs in international waters to set up military bases? Oh, I forgot. That is not the U.S. it is other countries!

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  philip kern

I suspect you know more about geo-politics than I do (I might be pretty tuned-in for an American–a very low bar). I certainly don’t think the US should try to get away with territorial expansion, either from an ethical or strategic standpoint.
We need to get along with one another much better here in the US instead of trying to export our self-vaunted aspirations and systems around the globe. And if we do manage to fall less short of our ideals here at home, we should still learn to “play well with others” around the world, which is something I think we deserve low marks for on the whole.

Tony Walker
Tony Walker
1 year ago
Reply to  philip kern

You people need to get out more. Really! Where to start? The US controls NATO, which gives it immense influence over Western Europe, with military bases holding around 60 thousand active-duty US troops in Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK. Then there are multiple bases in Japan, South Korea, Australia (my country, which is currently being pressured to cede more of its sovereignty by housing increasing numbers of US troops and aircraft, buying US nuclear-powered submarines and integrating itself into US military forces, doubtless under US military direction), and the Pacific and Indian Oceans with another 100 thousand or so troops, not to mention Bahrain and UAE with 8 thousand troops, plus scattered garrisons throughout the world. Then there are the extensive covert forces that exist to pressure, interfere with and even topple governments – democratic or otherwise – that don’t quite see the US point of view as clearly as they could. Add to this military might US cultural industries and continuing economic influence through the globally dominant US dollar, and you see US imperial power, or, as it’s rather cutely called, “the rules-based international order”. While US democracy might be in decline, it clearly has no intention of ceding territory, which may end up being a chilling formulation for the rest of the world.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tony Walker
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

1. I do not regard Native Americans as savages at all! Mostly highly civilised peoples. It is the genocidal settlers and slavers that were the savages!
2. America’s imperialism is far greater than any other imperialist nation in world history. Yes, very few military conquests but these are unnecessary in the 20/21st centuries. It is easier to control vassal states in other ways, eg by toppling democratically elected govts, installing corrupt puppet regimes all over the world and imposing sanctions are any that don’t toe the line. Exploitation of those corrupt regimes is easy; you only have to enrich the top 0.1% and supply sophicated weapons to ensure the general population is crushed into poverty. The British have been doing this via neo colonialism ever since its colonies gained apparent independence.
The US has almost 1,000 military bases all over the world to enforce its hegemony. Only naive, brainwashed Americans could possibly think otherwise.
3. Any nation unwilling to consume American garbage and give up its resources is invaded or bombed into the stone age! Iraq is one but not the only example. A million dead including half a million children.. all worth it according to Madeline Albright.
4. Gaddafi was deposed because he started a Pan-African currency to rival the global dollar.. and Libya bombed and destabilised to drive home the message.
5. Now the BRICS+ nations have to be brought to heel for the same reason starting with Russia (Ukraine is just canon fodder) and China is to follow because they too are sick of the US’s greedy Unipolar world system of US hegemony.
6. But the US’s “America first”, near civil war, corrupted Âčdemocracy and hollowed out production capability (except for military hardware and computer technology) will probably see the decline of the US Empire quite soon..
7. To prevent that happening the US 0.1% are planning a nuclear war which they are convinced they can survive while the 99.9% (that’s all you naive, gullible idiots and us innocents btw) will all be toast.. that is regarded as preferable to the US losing its world dominance. No point in trying to explain that to you though is there?

Samuel Ross
Samuel Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

That was a nice fantasy. No truth to it, though.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Haha! Yes, you really should retire from trying to convert me to your lunatic perspective. Rest content in your certainty that even the most misinformed Irishman has a better understanding of America than any American does–with the charitable exception of perhaps one in ten million.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

You’re delusional. And incurable.

TERRY JESSOP
TERRY JESSOP
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Liam O’Mahony: See my reply to Tony Walker. I put you both in the same boat with your ant-American views. Far from toppling governments, the U.S. handed back control of Afghanistan to the Taliban (stupid move), and could not even change the government of Venezuela which is virtually in its back yard. Nor was it the U.S. that toppled Gaddafi; indeed Obama the U.S. president at the time was stupidly approving of the “Arab Spring” uprisings against Gaddafi and other Arab despots. (That went well in Syria, did it not?)

Samuel Ross
Samuel Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

That was a nice fantasy. No truth to it, though.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Haha! Yes, you really should retire from trying to convert me to your lunatic perspective. Rest content in your certainty that even the most misinformed Irishman has a better understanding of America than any American does–with the charitable exception of perhaps one in ten million.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

You’re delusional. And incurable.

TERRY JESSOP
TERRY JESSOP
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Liam O’Mahony: See my reply to Tony Walker. I put you both in the same boat with your ant-American views. Far from toppling governments, the U.S. handed back control of Afghanistan to the Taliban (stupid move), and could not even change the government of Venezuela which is virtually in its back yard. Nor was it the U.S. that toppled Gaddafi; indeed Obama the U.S. president at the time was stupidly approving of the “Arab Spring” uprisings against Gaddafi and other Arab despots. (That went well in Syria, did it not?)

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Overseas is doing a lot of work there.

The US is a world empire. Pelosi going to Taiwan is a claim on Taiwan. The hysteria on Ukraine shows that the US feels itself being invaded by Russia though Ukraine was not an ally of the US, or in NATO. The hysteria is because the US firmly believes that everywhere is a vassal state of the US. The monroe doctrine explicitly states that for South America.

The big problem though is American ideology, which wants the world to look exactly like the US, neoliberal and multicultural. Hence the anger with socialist Venezuela and “whites supremacist” Hungary. Both are in opposition to the global American empire.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

If people want US help, that’s fine. If they get threatened if they refuse it, that’s when it’s time for that bunch of global bullies to have Operation Shock N Awe take place in their own homeland.
You lot need to learn what being bombed repeatedly feels like.
You had national hysterics post 9-11.
You don’t really have very big Cojones, do you?

philip kern
philip kern
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I agree with much of what you say, but wonder about the significance of territorial expansion in the modern world. Has the US ceded such ambitions to China in favour of other forms of dominance? After all, in today’s world, space on the map is secondary to other forms of domination (and is more politically acceptable). The US government doesn’t even need to win space on its own map, much less outside its borders. I’m open to being convinced otherwise.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

1. I do not regard Native Americans as savages at all! Mostly highly civilised peoples. It is the genocidal settlers and slavers that were the savages!
2. America’s imperialism is far greater than any other imperialist nation in world history. Yes, very few military conquests but these are unnecessary in the 20/21st centuries. It is easier to control vassal states in other ways, eg by toppling democratically elected govts, installing corrupt puppet regimes all over the world and imposing sanctions are any that don’t toe the line. Exploitation of those corrupt regimes is easy; you only have to enrich the top 0.1% and supply sophicated weapons to ensure the general population is crushed into poverty. The British have been doing this via neo colonialism ever since its colonies gained apparent independence.
The US has almost 1,000 military bases all over the world to enforce its hegemony. Only naive, brainwashed Americans could possibly think otherwise.
3. Any nation unwilling to consume American garbage and give up its resources is invaded or bombed into the stone age! Iraq is one but not the only example. A million dead including half a million children.. all worth it according to Madeline Albright.
4. Gaddafi was deposed because he started a Pan-African currency to rival the global dollar.. and Libya bombed and destabilised to drive home the message.
5. Now the BRICS+ nations have to be brought to heel for the same reason starting with Russia (Ukraine is just canon fodder) and China is to follow because they too are sick of the US’s greedy Unipolar world system of US hegemony.
6. But the US’s “America first”, near civil war, corrupted Âčdemocracy and hollowed out production capability (except for military hardware and computer technology) will probably see the decline of the US Empire quite soon..
7. To prevent that happening the US 0.1% are planning a nuclear war which they are convinced they can survive while the 99.9% (that’s all you naive, gullible idiots and us innocents btw) will all be toast.. that is regarded as preferable to the US losing its world dominance. No point in trying to explain that to you though is there?

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Overseas is doing a lot of work there.

The US is a world empire. Pelosi going to Taiwan is a claim on Taiwan. The hysteria on Ukraine shows that the US feels itself being invaded by Russia though Ukraine was not an ally of the US, or in NATO. The hysteria is because the US firmly believes that everywhere is a vassal state of the US. The monroe doctrine explicitly states that for South America.

The big problem though is American ideology, which wants the world to look exactly like the US, neoliberal and multicultural. Hence the anger with socialist Venezuela and “whites supremacist” Hungary. Both are in opposition to the global American empire.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Christ! Where did you go to school Liam, you silly old Commie?
Gall? Cartage???.

Incidentally it was Georges Clemenceau who made that observation about the US, sometime before that ridiculous old pervert Gandhi.

Otherwise how is Lusitania?

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago

Jeez I’m upvoting Charles
.better go and lie down.

Last edited 1 year ago by Ian Stewart
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

Shut up Charlie..

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago

Jeez I’m upvoting Charles
.better go and lie down.

Last edited 1 year ago by Ian Stewart
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

Shut up Charlie..

Nicholas Coulson
Nicholas Coulson
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

That quote is also attributed to Oscar Wilde.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

In that case all three of them got it right. I add myself to make it 4!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

In that case all three of them got it right. I add myself to make it 4!

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

1) A clever quip that dismisses all Indigenous Americans as savages and ignores the rude civilization of early European refugees to these shores–not all were brutal or stupid.
2) Anti-American Exceptionalism on steroids: not only is the influence of American a complex net-positive or net-negative, but the world would be some kind of comparative wonderland if it went away or had never existed. And Gaul and Carthage…really?! The U.S. is not in a period of territorial expansion and has done very little of that (across seas) in its history, unlike Rome or Britain at its height.
We export our largely garbage culture and intervene elsewhere almost at will, true, but those intrusions are often requested or agreed to. In other words, even anti-Americans often welcome military aid in an existential crisis, and no one is required by law to consume our junk food and crass entertainment.
That said, I get that there’s a lot that’s contemptible and repugnant about the country I live in, sometimes to an exceptional degree. Here’s where I mention my Canadian young-childhood years and dual-citizenship and try to seem different or special in a good way.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Christ! Where did you go to school Liam, you silly old Commie?
Gall? Cartage???.

Incidentally it was Georges Clemenceau who made that observation about the US, sometime before that ridiculous old pervert Gandhi.

Otherwise how is Lusitania?

Nicholas Coulson
Nicholas Coulson
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

That quote is also attributed to Oscar Wilde.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Two points:
1. It is not the first time America moved from phase one to phase three, missing out the important middle bit (full scale revolution). Gandhi regarded America as the only major nation that moved from savagery to decadence without the customary period of civilization on the middle!
2. American carnage is everywhere (except for the US itself) with a death toll in the many mllions all around, not unlike ancient Rome’s bloodthirsty campaigns in Gall, Spain, Cartage etc.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

I think a better way to describe this is to say that, thanks to digital media, US elites have lost their monopoly on mass communication and therefore their ability to create consensus without coercion.

The choice now – and it’s the same across the West – is starkly between democracy and totalitarianism. What happens in the US over the next few years will decide the outcome for all of us.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Isn’t that overblown, not to say simplistic? Firstly, the idea of democracy itself is hardly an uncontested one. What happens when there is a clash between representative democratic institutions and a referendum result, such as Brexit? In Britain we usually have the concept of untrammelled parliamentary sovereignty, so this eventuality was always going to pose huge difficulties. Those politicians setting up the referendum thought they would win it; otherwise they probably wouldn’t!

Then we have the rather obvious fact in the US that losers increasingly call foul on the system when they lose, eg Trump. By the way, in a pure numerical democracy, Trump would have not come close to winning (the popular vote) in either 2016 or 2020. But of course the (very conservative) Founding Fathers were very suspicious of democracy and ‘mob rule’ and quite deliberately introduced non-democratic elements introduced into the Constitution. We have the increasing phenomenon of ‘democracy’ being shouted entirely transactionally when it happens to suit a particular political side. This even gets extended to a faintly ludicrous demand for ‘internal party democracy’ so that the wider electorate gets foisted with patently useless candidates such as Jeremy Corbyn or Liz Truss chosen by unrepresentative political activists. We don’t run every business, research institution or hospital as a ‘democracy’ so we need to understand when it is important democratic principles should apply, and when not.

As to living under totalitarianism, well, I would say that no one who actually had had any experience of doing so, with the horrors that entailed, would agree. It seems to be quite easy to find any number of ‘anti-woke’ commentators for example out there. Governing, academic and even business institutions have certainly been putting their thumbs on the scales, but that falls well short of ‘totalitarianism’. Of course some political systems, such as Singapore’s, explicitly do tilt the scales, but they aren’t usually described as ‘totalitarian’.

There is undoubtedly a dominant and rather illiberal ‘woke’ ideology now being strongly promoted in the US and elsewhere. But it isn’t mainly the government. Big Tech has a lot of power and it will fight like anything to hold onto it, including what looks rather like joining a Faustian pact to promote woke while the Left ceases to threaten it by breaking it up. It seems to me that something like that seems to have happened since the ‘Occupy Wall Street’ movement – where did that go?!

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Fisher
Dennis Taylor
Dennis Taylor
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

The most frietening words ever spoken are “we’re from America and we’re here to help”. Just tell them thanks but no thanks!

John Hope
John Hope
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Taylor

Nice take on Reagan’s quote. “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” If Germany hadn’t eviscerated their domestic energy supply and dismantled their military then maybe Europe could have deterred a Russian invasion of Ukraine. Western Europe under Herr Merkel seemed to think there were no longer any security threats left in the world.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hope

Yes, to a large extent that is probably true. She thought mankind had evolved beyond barbarism, silly woman. A glance at American aggression all over the world should have taught her different! But being white, Christian and devoid of oil she may have thought Germany (and the EU) were immune?

Joanna Parol
Joanna Parol
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hope

Europe would have not had to deter any invasion by Russia, because Russia wouldn’t have the resources to finance any conflict – if it wasn’t for the Germans paying for the invasion through cheap energy supplies contracts that is…

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hope

Yes, to a large extent that is probably true. She thought mankind had evolved beyond barbarism, silly woman. A glance at American aggression all over the world should have taught her different! But being white, Christian and devoid of oil she may have thought Germany (and the EU) were immune?

Joanna Parol
Joanna Parol
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hope

Europe would have not had to deter any invasion by Russia, because Russia wouldn’t have the resources to finance any conflict – if it wasn’t for the Germans paying for the invasion through cheap energy supplies contracts that is…

michael harris
michael harris
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Taylor

You just cribbed Reagan’s ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help’.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Taylor

Many have tried to their cost! Look at Cuba!

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Taylor

So can we be reimbursed for the Marshall Plan? And while you’re at it can you tack on the $100 Billion dollars American taxpayers are forking over to the Ukraine….yet, another European war….jeeshh

Last edited 1 year ago by Cathy Carron
John Hope
John Hope
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Taylor

Nice take on Reagan’s quote. “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” If Germany hadn’t eviscerated their domestic energy supply and dismantled their military then maybe Europe could have deterred a Russian invasion of Ukraine. Western Europe under Herr Merkel seemed to think there were no longer any security threats left in the world.

michael harris
michael harris
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Taylor

You just cribbed Reagan’s ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help’.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Taylor

Many have tried to their cost! Look at Cuba!

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Taylor

So can we be reimbursed for the Marshall Plan? And while you’re at it can you tack on the $100 Billion dollars American taxpayers are forking over to the Ukraine….yet, another European war….jeeshh

Last edited 1 year ago by Cathy Carron
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Another example of malleable democracy is to be seen in NI.. Unionists were 100% in favour of majority rule (with scant regard further 49%) when they, had 51% of the vote but that all faded when the more fertile RC nationalists became the 51%. Suddenly democracy is no longer valid!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

The Catholics of NI are:- “Dediticii”.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

Shut tf up Charlie!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

Shut tf up Charlie!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

The Catholics of NI are:- “Dediticii”.

John Hope
John Hope
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Just a note that losers have been claiming fraudulent presidential elections in the US since 2000. Gore, Kerry and Hillary in 2016. Trump was the illegitimate president, elected by Russian intelligence. Sadly for her the world now knows that her campaign funded Steele dossier and the “Russian-collusion” that paralyzed Congress for 3 years

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

I applaud this forceful yet nuanced reply.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

A small point. Organisations are rarely run on aurthorative (totalitarian) lines these days. Instead a general consensus between the various “stakeholders” (owners, managers, unions, contractors and customers; and sometimes govt) exists.
And so consultative and even consensus models appy instead; in other words firms ARE far more “democratic” than you might imagine. The armed forces are exceptions of course.

Dennis Taylor
Dennis Taylor
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

The most frietening words ever spoken are “we’re from America and we’re here to help”. Just tell them thanks but no thanks!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Another example of malleable democracy is to be seen in NI.. Unionists were 100% in favour of majority rule (with scant regard further 49%) when they, had 51% of the vote but that all faded when the more fertile RC nationalists became the 51%. Suddenly democracy is no longer valid!

John Hope
John Hope
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Just a note that losers have been claiming fraudulent presidential elections in the US since 2000. Gore, Kerry and Hillary in 2016. Trump was the illegitimate president, elected by Russian intelligence. Sadly for her the world now knows that her campaign funded Steele dossier and the “Russian-collusion” that paralyzed Congress for 3 years

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

I applaud this forceful yet nuanced reply.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

A small point. Organisations are rarely run on aurthorative (totalitarian) lines these days. Instead a general consensus between the various “stakeholders” (owners, managers, unions, contractors and customers; and sometimes govt) exists.
And so consultative and even consensus models appy instead; in other words firms ARE far more “democratic” than you might imagine. The armed forces are exceptions of course.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

You can hardly describe the 2 party Teedledum : Tweedledee political arrangement in the US as a “democracy” surely? It is clearly government of the people by the WEF oligarchs via bought and paid for puppet politicians. Other ‘Western’ countries are perhaps closer to democracy but none is fully worthy of the name. The people’s needs are of secondary consideration at best another only to provide bread and circuses!

John Aronsson
John Aronsson
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I’d change “democracy” to “self-government” but otherwise I agree.
My recollection is that February 2014 was Europe’s last clear chance to maintain the boundaries between Brussels and Langley. The EU went all in with Langley.
There will be no revolution in the US just collapse along the lines present by Kenneth Clarke in the first episode of Civilization.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

No, it won’t. Everyone outside the USA has the absolute right to expel all US citizens and all US diplomatic representation from their country if they so wish. They can cleanse their entire nation from US presence.
If 50 nations did that in a co-ordinated manner, I’m telling you now that the USA isn’t going to bomb all of them.
They only bomb defenceless nations that can’t fight back.

philip kern
philip kern
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

‘Only’? You haven’t been paying attention.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

They would probably use neighbouring countries to do the bombing for them after they supply the necessary bombs.. I’m trying to think of an example where that kind of war by proxy is operated by the US? Anyone know of a good example?

philip kern
philip kern
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

‘Only’? You haven’t been paying attention.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

They would probably use neighbouring countries to do the bombing for them after they supply the necessary bombs.. I’m trying to think of an example where that kind of war by proxy is operated by the US? Anyone know of a good example?

Jeanie K
Jeanie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

America will soon collapse in a civil war, caused due to it being the World’s most corrupt (set of) nations.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeanie K

That will not be the cause! If anything that will hold it together (as it has done for decades). Rather it will be the revolution to counter that corruption that will contribute to the civil war; that and rampant racism, and wokism and Qanon and the lizards and the paedophile baby eating and stuff like that!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Best comment ever. That sounds pretty close to me.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Best comment ever. That sounds pretty close to me.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeanie K

That will not be the cause! If anything that will hold it together (as it has done for decades). Rather it will be the revolution to counter that corruption that will contribute to the civil war; that and rampant racism, and wokism and Qanon and the lizards and the paedophile baby eating and stuff like that!

jonathan carter-meggs
jonathan carter-meggs
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Scarily true!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I don’t disagree ..fundamentally. However you use the term “democracy” loosely I fear. A two party, Tweedledum-Tweedledee state with gross gerrymandering, vote denial and twisting of the popular vote hardly counts as a democracy does it? ..especially when both parties are in the pay and so under the thumb of big business and the military industrial alliance!

Last edited 1 year ago by Liam O'Mahony
Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Isn’t that overblown, not to say simplistic? Firstly, the idea of democracy itself is hardly an uncontested one. What happens when there is a clash between representative democratic institutions and a referendum result, such as Brexit? In Britain we usually have the concept of untrammelled parliamentary sovereignty, so this eventuality was always going to pose huge difficulties. Those politicians setting up the referendum thought they would win it; otherwise they probably wouldn’t!

Then we have the rather obvious fact in the US that losers increasingly call foul on the system when they lose, eg Trump. By the way, in a pure numerical democracy, Trump would have not come close to winning (the popular vote) in either 2016 or 2020. But of course the (very conservative) Founding Fathers were very suspicious of democracy and ‘mob rule’ and quite deliberately introduced non-democratic elements introduced into the Constitution. We have the increasing phenomenon of ‘democracy’ being shouted entirely transactionally when it happens to suit a particular political side. This even gets extended to a faintly ludicrous demand for ‘internal party democracy’ so that the wider electorate gets foisted with patently useless candidates such as Jeremy Corbyn or Liz Truss chosen by unrepresentative political activists. We don’t run every business, research institution or hospital as a ‘democracy’ so we need to understand when it is important democratic principles should apply, and when not.

As to living under totalitarianism, well, I would say that no one who actually had had any experience of doing so, with the horrors that entailed, would agree. It seems to be quite easy to find any number of ‘anti-woke’ commentators for example out there. Governing, academic and even business institutions have certainly been putting their thumbs on the scales, but that falls well short of ‘totalitarianism’. Of course some political systems, such as Singapore’s, explicitly do tilt the scales, but they aren’t usually described as ‘totalitarian’.

There is undoubtedly a dominant and rather illiberal ‘woke’ ideology now being strongly promoted in the US and elsewhere. But it isn’t mainly the government. Big Tech has a lot of power and it will fight like anything to hold onto it, including what looks rather like joining a Faustian pact to promote woke while the Left ceases to threaten it by breaking it up. It seems to me that something like that seems to have happened since the ‘Occupy Wall Street’ movement – where did that go?!

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Fisher
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

You can hardly describe the 2 party Teedledum : Tweedledee political arrangement in the US as a “democracy” surely? It is clearly government of the people by the WEF oligarchs via bought and paid for puppet politicians. Other ‘Western’ countries are perhaps closer to democracy but none is fully worthy of the name. The people’s needs are of secondary consideration at best another only to provide bread and circuses!

John Aronsson
John Aronsson
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I’d change “democracy” to “self-government” but otherwise I agree.
My recollection is that February 2014 was Europe’s last clear chance to maintain the boundaries between Brussels and Langley. The EU went all in with Langley.
There will be no revolution in the US just collapse along the lines present by Kenneth Clarke in the first episode of Civilization.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

No, it won’t. Everyone outside the USA has the absolute right to expel all US citizens and all US diplomatic representation from their country if they so wish. They can cleanse their entire nation from US presence.
If 50 nations did that in a co-ordinated manner, I’m telling you now that the USA isn’t going to bomb all of them.
They only bomb defenceless nations that can’t fight back.

Jeanie K
Jeanie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

America will soon collapse in a civil war, caused due to it being the World’s most corrupt (set of) nations.

jonathan carter-meggs
jonathan carter-meggs
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Scarily true!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I don’t disagree ..fundamentally. However you use the term “democracy” loosely I fear. A two party, Tweedledum-Tweedledee state with gross gerrymandering, vote denial and twisting of the popular vote hardly counts as a democracy does it? ..especially when both parties are in the pay and so under the thumb of big business and the military industrial alliance!

Last edited 1 year ago by Liam O'Mahony
Tony Sandy
Tony Sandy
1 year ago

Let’s hope so!

Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
1 year ago

Identity politics was a diversion from the Occupy Wall Street campaign. Its origins were orchestrated by those who wanted to hide how Obama’s 2008 campaign was financed by Wall Street and on whose behalf Obama agreed to kick millions and disproportionately African-Americans out of their homes on behalf of his paymasters in the financial industry. BLM came to the fore as an attempt to shore up the A-A vote for an old, white woman who had learnt her politics sitting at the feet of a former KKK recruiter. It was then re-energised to return the White House to the Democrats in 2020. No prizes for guessing when it will peak again. The so-called Culture Wars are an attempt by the elite to distract the American people from the realisation that they are living under a military dictatorship which can ‘lose’ $2trillion of arms and no one in the MSM mentions it.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

I dont believe the $2trn is lost. It’s just too embarrassing to say where the weapons went. Probability to both sides in ever conflict the world over? They gotta be tested right? And I dare say every sick, degenerate, corrupt regime is also a recipient. To be fair probably a lot was sold the blackmarket to augment military salaries? All in all a paper trail would be a no-no right?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

I dont believe the $2trn is lost. It’s just too embarrassing to say where the weapons went. Probability to both sides in ever conflict the world over? They gotta be tested right? And I dare say every sick, degenerate, corrupt regime is also a recipient. To be fair probably a lot was sold the blackmarket to augment military salaries? All in all a paper trail would be a no-no right?

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
1 year ago

As fantastical & hyperbolic as this essay comes across, the current ‘cancel’ culture & wokeism in the USA has been fueled by French philosophers, Michel Foucault & Jaques Derrida. Rather funny that. Moreover, the writer describes Europe as if it has had no will of its own (the ‘Prince Harry Syndrome’), yet it was Germany who inadvisedly shut down its nuclear reactors in reaction to its own home-grown green movement, creating its own energy problems. You never hear them tapping Norway for oil; EU officials would rather deal with Qatar in corrupt fashion. It was Europe that had the utopian vision of creating a United States of Europe – the ‘EU’ – in reaction to its two world wars (which the USA helped it win…). How’s that working out? Brexit anyone? Don’t get me going about Merkel’s “Wir Schafflen Das!”, letting millions of immigrants into EU – many of them Muslims, who will never integrate into a Christian society – it’s more likely that they will take over the region by a higher birthrate. And it’s Ireland and Holland who are shutting down farms and killing off livestock, while a number of Dutch farmers have made their way to the USA to begin again. I could go on and on – but it seems like Europe has created its own brand of crazy.

Last edited 1 year ago by Cathy Carron
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Cathy Carron

Surely the Muslims (you seem to dislike so much) have already taken over in the UK? Have you looked at the government faces recently? It seems they’re a good deal smarter and more successful than the lazy, work shy white Christian natives?
FYI Ireland has a much higher % immigrant population than the UK.. and like you we owe much of our prosperity to them; unlike you we welcome them and they do assimilate. Their religious faith is a private matter.
How many British immigrants are there is other countries who refuse to assimilate? They don’t even learn the language fgs! Yes I know, you call them expats but technically they are all immigrants.

Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cathy Carron

Well said. And as to Merkel – I’ve long had a sneaking suspicion she was really working for Putin. These are the major indicators: Grew up in communist East Germany, spoke Russian, got along well with Putin, shut down Germany’s nuclear reactors for no discernible reason (Fukushima had no chance of occurring there), then made the country and its industry utterly dependent on Russian gas; I wonder if the Germans have heard of an offense called TREASON?

Last edited 1 year ago by Wim de Vriend
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Cathy Carron

Surely the Muslims (you seem to dislike so much) have already taken over in the UK? Have you looked at the government faces recently? It seems they’re a good deal smarter and more successful than the lazy, work shy white Christian natives?
FYI Ireland has a much higher % immigrant population than the UK.. and like you we owe much of our prosperity to them; unlike you we welcome them and they do assimilate. Their religious faith is a private matter.
How many British immigrants are there is other countries who refuse to assimilate? They don’t even learn the language fgs! Yes I know, you call them expats but technically they are all immigrants.

Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cathy Carron

Well said. And as to Merkel – I’ve long had a sneaking suspicion she was really working for Putin. These are the major indicators: Grew up in communist East Germany, spoke Russian, got along well with Putin, shut down Germany’s nuclear reactors for no discernible reason (Fukushima had no chance of occurring there), then made the country and its industry utterly dependent on Russian gas; I wonder if the Germans have heard of an offense called TREASON?

Last edited 1 year ago by Wim de Vriend
Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago

Nice comment.

Reginald Duquesnoy
Reginald Duquesnoy
1 year ago

The enemy is us. The enema is the cure!

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

I agree that there are parallels to the Reign of Terror in leftist corners, but in a rather mild way compared to 1790s France. There are also rising strains of hardcore ethno-nationalism on the American far right. But none of this bares more than a remote connection to any of the actual, full-scale revolutions/purges you cited, nor the fascist ones you overlooked.
How can a revolution that has never happened and remains aspirational among would-be revolutionaries already have moved into post-revolutionary aftermath?
Even so, I acknowledge that we’re in a overheated climate of vilification and outrage here, and that both ideological zealots and those who oppose them behave in ways that can mirror major violent conflict. I’m still hopeful the temperature can be lowered before real American carnage is ramped up to a far bloodier level, with many of the surviving losers nursing a bloodthirsty grudge for ages.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

I think a better way to describe this is to say that, thanks to digital media, US elites have lost their monopoly on mass communication and therefore their ability to create consensus without coercion.

The choice now – and it’s the same across the West – is starkly between democracy and totalitarianism. What happens in the US over the next few years will decide the outcome for all of us.

Tony Sandy
Tony Sandy
1 year ago

Let’s hope so!

Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
1 year ago

Identity politics was a diversion from the Occupy Wall Street campaign. Its origins were orchestrated by those who wanted to hide how Obama’s 2008 campaign was financed by Wall Street and on whose behalf Obama agreed to kick millions and disproportionately African-Americans out of their homes on behalf of his paymasters in the financial industry. BLM came to the fore as an attempt to shore up the A-A vote for an old, white woman who had learnt her politics sitting at the feet of a former KKK recruiter. It was then re-energised to return the White House to the Democrats in 2020. No prizes for guessing when it will peak again. The so-called Culture Wars are an attempt by the elite to distract the American people from the realisation that they are living under a military dictatorship which can ‘lose’ $2trillion of arms and no one in the MSM mentions it.

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
1 year ago

As fantastical & hyperbolic as this essay comes across, the current ‘cancel’ culture & wokeism in the USA has been fueled by French philosophers, Michel Foucault & Jaques Derrida. Rather funny that. Moreover, the writer describes Europe as if it has had no will of its own (the ‘Prince Harry Syndrome’), yet it was Germany who inadvisedly shut down its nuclear reactors in reaction to its own home-grown green movement, creating its own energy problems. You never hear them tapping Norway for oil; EU officials would rather deal with Qatar in corrupt fashion. It was Europe that had the utopian vision of creating a United States of Europe – the ‘EU’ – in reaction to its two world wars (which the USA helped it win…). How’s that working out? Brexit anyone? Don’t get me going about Merkel’s “Wir Schafflen Das!”, letting millions of immigrants into EU – many of them Muslims, who will never integrate into a Christian society – it’s more likely that they will take over the region by a higher birthrate. And it’s Ireland and Holland who are shutting down farms and killing off livestock, while a number of Dutch farmers have made their way to the USA to begin again. I could go on and on – but it seems like Europe has created its own brand of crazy.

Last edited 1 year ago by Cathy Carron
Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago

Nice comment.

Reginald Duquesnoy
Reginald Duquesnoy
1 year ago

The enemy is us. The enema is the cure!

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
1 year ago

I’d say that the way to understand Yank-ology right now is to understand that we are going through a reign of terror / great purge / cultural revolution for the same reason as the French, Bolshevik and Maoist revolutions.
When the revolutions runs aground and Make Things Worse, the revolutionaries start searching everywhere for the dastardly enemy that wrecked the revolution.
That is what is happening here in the US in our cancel culture as the wokies search high and low for the enemies that are killing the climate and systematizing racism. Because, as you sophisticated Euros well know, there is no politics without an enemy.
See you all after the show.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Is the United States some vulgar wasteland of gleaming emptiness? Sure, but not only. It’s a physically vast and culturally varied place, a series of places really. To view America through a prism of lurid symbolism, even from the posture of “sovereign indifference” that Jager celebrates in Baudrillard, both underestimates and unduly mystifies the nation.
Has Jager spent much time in the United States? If not, he’s a bit like the all-too-common sort of American who shouts “USA #1!” when he’s never left the country. Of course this author’s brand of superior-mindedness would still be less benighted than the Yankee yokel version, but a bit ignorant and arrogant nonetheless–we Americans haven’t monopolized those traits yet.
If anti-Americanism is regarded as a likely moral imperative, which likely hegemonic replacement would be better: a much stronger alliance between Russia and China?
“not a single person — is watching, and that he is accorded only indifference and derision as he passes. But he would tell you that was exactly how it was 2,000 years ago”
No, not exactly. There were always some who paid close attention and revered him, from the moment he took up his ministry until his violent death, and ever since.
I agree that the American zeitgeist feels within a few degrees of hell on many days, but is that so rare on our globe right now, or something best understood from a place of hyper-intellectual detachment? In other words: We are people, not animals or pathological specimens–at least not only.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

“I agree that the American zeitgeist feels within a few degrees of hell on many days”
I think we’re all going through that, but each country has its own cultural interpretation of hell and how to act it out. Like they say: when America sneezes the world catches a cold. By which I mean America can’t do anything quietly, not because it’s necessarily their way but because we’re always watching and waiting.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

…watching, waiting and grabbing power wherever you can!

Sisyphus Jones
Sisyphus Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

If you’re going to be vacuous, be brief. Well done, sir.

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I might be wrong but it appears that you think I’m American. When I said “we’re” I meant the rest of the world.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

Apologies.. that makes much more sense. Your contribution did sound like it was from an American..

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Wow. It’s hard to fathom your willingness to be such a publicly poisonous bigot.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Wow. It’s hard to fathom your willingness to be such a publicly poisonous bigot.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

Apologies.. that makes much more sense. Your contribution did sound like it was from an American..

Sisyphus Jones
Sisyphus Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

If you’re going to be vacuous, be brief. Well done, sir.

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I might be wrong but it appears that you think I’m American. When I said “we’re” I meant the rest of the world.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

…watching, waiting and grabbing power wherever you can!

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I’m just as anti the EU as I am anti-American. It doesn’t make me Putin’s emissary, nor Xi’s, it just means I don’t listen to Washington diatribe and swallow it whole.
We’re all sick and tired of the US trying to claim that ‘their sports’ are the biggest on earth. Even the most ignorant cretin knows that 400% more people watch the World Cup Final than watch the Superbowl.
Being anti-American is just telling Yanks to face up to the fact that we don’t think they are superior in every way. We can learn a lot from them about corruption, about genocides, about mass propaganda and about closed cartels operating in closed market places. Not to mention the most corrupt industry in the world being the US Military Industrial Complex.
The USA state is completely insolvent. So is Wall Street in the main. Their fiscal rectitude is glaring by its absence.
One day soon, the Ponzi scheme is going to collapse. And the Land of the Free is going to become a place resembling Civil War….

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

That’s a pretty heartsick and conveniently simple worldview, in my opinion. If your predictions come to pass, you’ll have your bloodthirsty schadenfreude.
I don’t think Americans are superior, nor exceptional in any way, and I despise such notions in my fellow citizens. But we’re not sub-human either, more like all-too-human. You’ve made the U.S. into a Great Satan when we’re only a pretty good one at best, and the good side of our national character also does exist, at least in certain hearts.
So it goes there across the pond too, though Britain has retired from the Great Colonial Oppressor game. Or perhaps you don’t like to have your home turf reduced to a caricature of itself either.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Well put.. and I agree, many in fact most, Americans are decent enough people; if only you weren’t so naive and gullible? If only you could see what the evil Military Industrial Complex is doing all other the world. That is the Great Satan, not the poor unfortunate people whose government is bought and paid for and no more governs for the people than Putin or Xi.. indeed, there is a good case to be made that those two have their people’s need much higher up the priority list than yours does. If it did you’d have universal health care, zero poverty and a much better educational system.

Last edited 1 year ago by Liam O'Mahony
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I can see a valid dimension in the point of view you express, and I’ve encountered very similar opinions on visits to Canada, where my dad’s from and where I lived until age 7.
I still perceive your anti-Americanism as somewhat extreme and unwarranted in degree, though I appreciate your not casting out the people with the government bathwater.
On the so-called Great Satan front: Should the United States have stayed out of the Russia-Ukraine War, not getting involved (for a change) and resting content in whatever Europe was or wasn’t willing to do?
That’s a genuine question by the way. While I have an opinion, I don’t imagine I have an incontrovertible, correct answer myself.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I can see a valid dimension in the point of view you express, and I’ve encountered very similar opinions on visits to Canada, where my dad’s from and where I lived until age 7.
I still perceive your anti-Americanism as somewhat extreme and unwarranted in degree, though I appreciate your not casting out the people with the government bathwater.
On the so-called Great Satan front: Should the United States have stayed out of the Russia-Ukraine War, not getting involved (for a change) and resting content in whatever Europe was or wasn’t willing to do?
That’s a genuine question by the way. While I have an opinion, I don’t imagine I have an incontrovertible, correct answer myself.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Well put.. and I agree, many in fact most, Americans are decent enough people; if only you weren’t so naive and gullible? If only you could see what the evil Military Industrial Complex is doing all other the world. That is the Great Satan, not the poor unfortunate people whose government is bought and paid for and no more governs for the people than Putin or Xi.. indeed, there is a good case to be made that those two have their people’s need much higher up the priority list than yours does. If it did you’d have universal health care, zero poverty and a much better educational system.

Last edited 1 year ago by Liam O'Mahony
Leonardo Rodrigues
Leonardo Rodrigues
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

I find it funny that every anti-American comment I see is laden with jealousy and contempt, covered in a veil of superiority

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

You really think so? Think again..

John Barr
John Barr
1 year ago

America is a braindead shithole. I lived there for over a decade, and can make a subjective experiential analysis. Some great people there, and some lovely scenery, but apart from that, flush it, and their “This is the Greatest Country In The World” (TM) shite. America is hilariously appalling, really.
They have an inferiority complex (fun to mess with, cos you can make them bend over and lube up, playing on their parochial self-loathing, with barely any trouble at all), believing that Europeans are more cultured, which, as a general truism, is correct, if also fatuous. This makes them contemptuous of culture and history and intelligence, because they have none; as the American writer Harlan Ellison put it, “This has always been a fiercely, fiercely anti-intellectual nation.”
There is absolutely nothing to be jealous of in America (you can get anything there abroad, now, except for school shootings and some more obscure foodstuffs), whose constant mass shootings merely mirror and mimic its foreign policy. It’s tragic how many people round the world love the dogshit soft power crap of American popular culture, shit Netflix series and shit superhero films and shit fast food and shit music but, well, if that’s really all you get pumped and pimped at you, what else are you going to consume?
If you removed America’s mass popular culture shield, basically the thing that endears the country to the world, binds them emotionally, and let people see what the place is really like…as more and more people are, the scales falling from their eyes…you wouldn’t even spit on the place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJWpR1mGoJw

Last edited 1 year ago by John Barr
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  John Barr

I’m amazed that you were able to endure ten minutes, let alone ten years among such inferior excuses for people.
What are your favorite types of music, literature, or other high/non-crap culture…or are you against Americans but not for anything?

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  John Barr

I’m amazed that you were able to endure ten minutes, let alone ten years among such inferior excuses for people.
What are your favorite types of music, literature, or other high/non-crap culture…or are you against Americans but not for anything?

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

You really think so? Think again..

John Barr
John Barr
1 year ago

America is a braindead shithole. I lived there for over a decade, and can make a subjective experiential analysis. Some great people there, and some lovely scenery, but apart from that, flush it, and their “This is the Greatest Country In The World” (TM) shite. America is hilariously appalling, really.
They have an inferiority complex (fun to mess with, cos you can make them bend over and lube up, playing on their parochial self-loathing, with barely any trouble at all), believing that Europeans are more cultured, which, as a general truism, is correct, if also fatuous. This makes them contemptuous of culture and history and intelligence, because they have none; as the American writer Harlan Ellison put it, “This has always been a fiercely, fiercely anti-intellectual nation.”
There is absolutely nothing to be jealous of in America (you can get anything there abroad, now, except for school shootings and some more obscure foodstuffs), whose constant mass shootings merely mirror and mimic its foreign policy. It’s tragic how many people round the world love the dogshit soft power crap of American popular culture, shit Netflix series and shit superhero films and shit fast food and shit music but, well, if that’s really all you get pumped and pimped at you, what else are you going to consume?
If you removed America’s mass popular culture shield, basically the thing that endears the country to the world, binds them emotionally, and let people see what the place is really like…as more and more people are, the scales falling from their eyes…you wouldn’t even spit on the place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJWpR1mGoJw

Last edited 1 year ago by John Barr
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

It had never occurred to me that Americans feel superior! How could they, realistically? That America as a country is superior okay; that is up for debate.. but when you exploit an entire planet with massive military might it’s hard to see your country as other than superior I guess. Look at GB and its empire.. long gone of course but the superiority complex remains..

John Barr
John Barr
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Americans feel VERY superior! I am European. I once said something negative about America, when I lived there, at work. My braindead supervisor jumped in: “Europeans think they’re better than everybody else! This is the greatest country in the world!” If the halfwit had even understood the concept of irony, I could have pointed out how stupid what she had sad was, but you can’t teach a dog quantum physics.

Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  John Barr

In 1945 America WAS the greatest country in the world, because without its immense industrial capacity Europe today would be run by Hitler’s successors, and East Asia by Tojo’s.
I agree that since then America has developed a bad habit of militarily intervening in various places that were no real threat to the US as such, but the reality was that after WWII the country decided to be the world’s peacekeeper, and by dominating the oceans (and the air) it would guarantee safe passage for global business of all nationalities. Depending on your love of socialism you can denigrate that all you want as another name for corporate greed, but the plain fact is that the world has benefited immensely by improved nutrition, better sanitation, longer lifespans, lower child mortality, and more. Study the statistics; there is no comparison; and all this through greater economic integration, thanks to Pax Americana with a dozen aircraft carrier groups. Has all of this been impeccable or nice? I’m not fond of finding MacDonald’s arches wherever I go either, but you’ve got to take the bad with the good. And some people — quite a few, in fact, love MacDonald’s.
And with regard to the Ukrainian war, we see once again that the US carries the heaviest burden by far, although finally, finally Europe seems to have awakened to the Russian threat,as it should. It’s obvious except to the willfully deaf and blind that Putin dreams of re-establishing Russian hegemony over central Europe, and will lie and murder to achieve it; he has made no bones about calling the dissolution of the USSR a great tragedy.
Aside from that, you have depicted yourself as an insufferable snob.

Last edited 1 year ago by Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  John Barr

In 1945 America WAS the greatest country in the world, because without its immense industrial capacity Europe today would be run by Hitler’s successors, and East Asia by Tojo’s.
I agree that since then America has developed a bad habit of militarily intervening in various places that were no real threat to the US as such, but the reality was that after WWII the country decided to be the world’s peacekeeper, and by dominating the oceans (and the air) it would guarantee safe passage for global business of all nationalities. Depending on your love of socialism you can denigrate that all you want as another name for corporate greed, but the plain fact is that the world has benefited immensely by improved nutrition, better sanitation, longer lifespans, lower child mortality, and more. Study the statistics; there is no comparison; and all this through greater economic integration, thanks to Pax Americana with a dozen aircraft carrier groups. Has all of this been impeccable or nice? I’m not fond of finding MacDonald’s arches wherever I go either, but you’ve got to take the bad with the good. And some people — quite a few, in fact, love MacDonald’s.
And with regard to the Ukrainian war, we see once again that the US carries the heaviest burden by far, although finally, finally Europe seems to have awakened to the Russian threat,as it should. It’s obvious except to the willfully deaf and blind that Putin dreams of re-establishing Russian hegemony over central Europe, and will lie and murder to achieve it; he has made no bones about calling the dissolution of the USSR a great tragedy.
Aside from that, you have depicted yourself as an insufferable snob.

Last edited 1 year ago by Wim de Vriend
John Barr
John Barr
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Americans feel VERY superior! I am European. I once said something negative about America, when I lived there, at work. My braindead supervisor jumped in: “Europeans think they’re better than everybody else! This is the greatest country in the world!” If the halfwit had even understood the concept of irony, I could have pointed out how stupid what she had sad was, but you can’t teach a dog quantum physics.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

That’s a pretty heartsick and conveniently simple worldview, in my opinion. If your predictions come to pass, you’ll have your bloodthirsty schadenfreude.
I don’t think Americans are superior, nor exceptional in any way, and I despise such notions in my fellow citizens. But we’re not sub-human either, more like all-too-human. You’ve made the U.S. into a Great Satan when we’re only a pretty good one at best, and the good side of our national character also does exist, at least in certain hearts.
So it goes there across the pond too, though Britain has retired from the Great Colonial Oppressor game. Or perhaps you don’t like to have your home turf reduced to a caricature of itself either.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Leonardo Rodrigues
Leonardo Rodrigues
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

I find it funny that every anti-American comment I see is laden with jealousy and contempt, covered in a veil of superiority

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

It had never occurred to me that Americans feel superior! How could they, realistically? That America as a country is superior okay; that is up for debate.. but when you exploit an entire planet with massive military might it’s hard to see your country as other than superior I guess. Look at GB and its empire.. long gone of course but the superiority complex remains..

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

“I agree that the American zeitgeist feels within a few degrees of hell on many days”
I think we’re all going through that, but each country has its own cultural interpretation of hell and how to act it out. Like they say: when America sneezes the world catches a cold. By which I mean America can’t do anything quietly, not because it’s necessarily their way but because we’re always watching and waiting.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I’m just as anti the EU as I am anti-American. It doesn’t make me Putin’s emissary, nor Xi’s, it just means I don’t listen to Washington diatribe and swallow it whole.
We’re all sick and tired of the US trying to claim that ‘their sports’ are the biggest on earth. Even the most ignorant cretin knows that 400% more people watch the World Cup Final than watch the Superbowl.
Being anti-American is just telling Yanks to face up to the fact that we don’t think they are superior in every way. We can learn a lot from them about corruption, about genocides, about mass propaganda and about closed cartels operating in closed market places. Not to mention the most corrupt industry in the world being the US Military Industrial Complex.
The USA state is completely insolvent. So is Wall Street in the main. Their fiscal rectitude is glaring by its absence.
One day soon, the Ponzi scheme is going to collapse. And the Land of the Free is going to become a place resembling Civil War….

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Is the United States some vulgar wasteland of gleaming emptiness? Sure, but not only. It’s a physically vast and culturally varied place, a series of places really. To view America through a prism of lurid symbolism, even from the posture of “sovereign indifference” that Jager celebrates in Baudrillard, both underestimates and unduly mystifies the nation.
Has Jager spent much time in the United States? If not, he’s a bit like the all-too-common sort of American who shouts “USA #1!” when he’s never left the country. Of course this author’s brand of superior-mindedness would still be less benighted than the Yankee yokel version, but a bit ignorant and arrogant nonetheless–we Americans haven’t monopolized those traits yet.
If anti-Americanism is regarded as a likely moral imperative, which likely hegemonic replacement would be better: a much stronger alliance between Russia and China?
“not a single person — is watching, and that he is accorded only indifference and derision as he passes. But he would tell you that was exactly how it was 2,000 years ago”
No, not exactly. There were always some who paid close attention and revered him, from the moment he took up his ministry until his violent death, and ever since.
I agree that the American zeitgeist feels within a few degrees of hell on many days, but is that so rare on our globe right now, or something best understood from a place of hyper-intellectual detachment? In other words: We are people, not animals or pathological specimens–at least not only.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Sean Brophy
Sean Brophy
1 year ago

I am repelled by the suggestion that Anti-Americanism is a moral imperative. What sort of morality is that? It’s a morality based on hatred. Perhaps we can attempt to rehabilitate this hatred with vague notions like cultural snobbery or social justice, but it is hatred all the same. Why not base a moral imperative on some good that is deficient in America and abundant in Europe? Something like social solidarity, perhaps.

Last edited 1 year ago by Sean Brophy
Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean Brophy

It’s not possible to be pro-something the Americans will oppose without being concomitantly anti-American.
As a smaller nation, we aren’t going to be able to project our positive beliefs onto the USA, so what we have to do is stop them projecting their unwanted values onto us.

Graeme Cant
Graeme Cant
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Rubbish, Rhys. The US doesn’t project anything onto you. You – and your compatriots – reach out for it.
Your countrymen look at them and can’t help being influenced and attracted by a smarter, more energetic, more dynamic, more entertaining, more ALIVE, more promising culture for most people.
Europeans are fascinated by the way the US is so much like Europe – from which it derived – but better. All the intellectuals in the article went to the US to work out what it had that was so attractive but really hard to define. Not attractive to them personally (so they said) but what drives them mad is that, in general, the US and its culture are extraordinarily attractive to the non-intellectual mass of Europeans. American domination of Europe took place by invitation. It was welcomed – fashion, film, mores, music, even their soldiers – almost every aspect of the USA.
The US doesn’t attract opprobrium because it “bombs defenceless nations”. Its so-called imperialism isn’t nation-conquering like many European nations were. It’s such an attractive culture that it conquers with charm which attracts chagrin from the pygmy gatekeepers like yourself in Europe and much of the rest of the world. That’s how I read many of the comments here.
If a world-wide poll was taken asking where people would prefer to live, the US would win by billions of votes. And everyone bad-mouthing the US here knows this to be true.
Have a nice day!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Cant

Eh? Would you say all those desirable attributes apply in the case of Cuba? No? How about Vietnam? Iraq? Libya? Palestine? China? Russia? Iran? …of course some of the subculture garbage is popular among the great unwashed of Europe.
To be fair you have some great people but it’s like 0.00001% of the population.. really clever and very well educated people whom we in Europe greatly admire. Sadly 99.9% of Americans ignore them at best or deride them or even ‘cancel’ them at worst.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Or course you know your numbers are off since point-quadruple-zero-percent equates to one in ten million (33 people nationwide) and it’s silly to suggest that only one in a thousand Americans admire the best sort of fellow American, whilst all of “we Europeans” supposedly do. Not to quibble over hyperbole.
I wish you’d put more of your comments in the sensible terms you’re capable of, unlike when you suggest a dark equivalency between the Chinese, Russian, and American governments above. I can tell you’re mostly sincere and as someone who estimates my ancestry to be 5/8ths Irish and 7/8th Celtic, I don’t regard you as quite foreign, so to speak.
Yes, many politicians are bought off here–is that something unknown in Ireland? The profit motive of many hospitals and even prisons here is a moral and social disaster and the economy and culture are way too corporatized and acquisitive as a whole. But I don’t think the society is as corrupt or stupid as you claim, and things aren’t hopeless from “sea to shining sea”.
Given your violent contempt for US politics and society, I assume you’ve travelled here. If so, what was you experience?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Or course you know your numbers are off since point-quadruple-zero-percent equates to one in ten million (33 people nationwide) and it’s silly to suggest that only one in a thousand Americans admire the best sort of fellow American, whilst all of “we Europeans” supposedly do. Not to quibble over hyperbole.
I wish you’d put more of your comments in the sensible terms you’re capable of, unlike when you suggest a dark equivalency between the Chinese, Russian, and American governments above. I can tell you’re mostly sincere and as someone who estimates my ancestry to be 5/8ths Irish and 7/8th Celtic, I don’t regard you as quite foreign, so to speak.
Yes, many politicians are bought off here–is that something unknown in Ireland? The profit motive of many hospitals and even prisons here is a moral and social disaster and the economy and culture are way too corporatized and acquisitive as a whole. But I don’t think the society is as corrupt or stupid as you claim, and things aren’t hopeless from “sea to shining sea”.
Given your violent contempt for US politics and society, I assume you’ve travelled here. If so, what was you experience?

John Barr
John Barr
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Cant

‘Your countrymen look at them and can’t help being influenced and attracted by a smarter, more energetic, more dynamic, more entertaining, more ALIVE, more promising culture for most people.’
As a European who unfortunately lived in Chimpland for over a decade, I would have to say that’s one of the most hilariously stupid things I have ever seen said; it genuinely made me laugh out loud. A perfect example of ill-informed, self-righteous, pompous American exceptionalism. Just cos somebody told you you’re the greatest country in the world…doesn’t mean you are. NOBODY is. We’re all crabs in a bucket.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Barr
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Cant

Eh? Would you say all those desirable attributes apply in the case of Cuba? No? How about Vietnam? Iraq? Libya? Palestine? China? Russia? Iran? …of course some of the subculture garbage is popular among the great unwashed of Europe.
To be fair you have some great people but it’s like 0.00001% of the population.. really clever and very well educated people whom we in Europe greatly admire. Sadly 99.9% of Americans ignore them at best or deride them or even ‘cancel’ them at worst.

John Barr
John Barr
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Cant

‘Your countrymen look at them and can’t help being influenced and attracted by a smarter, more energetic, more dynamic, more entertaining, more ALIVE, more promising culture for most people.’
As a European who unfortunately lived in Chimpland for over a decade, I would have to say that’s one of the most hilariously stupid things I have ever seen said; it genuinely made me laugh out loud. A perfect example of ill-informed, self-righteous, pompous American exceptionalism. Just cos somebody told you you’re the greatest country in the world…doesn’t mean you are. NOBODY is. We’re all crabs in a bucket.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Barr
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

That seems fair.. I do however think we Irish have a considerable influence on America since 1st, 2nd and 3rd generations still call themselves “Irish” there. Probably 40 million of us..

John Barr
John Barr
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Nothing more vomitous than an ill-informed ‘Irish’-American, trust me. All boils down to fighting and drinking with them, trust me, and they know nothing else whatsoever about being Irish.

John Barr
John Barr
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Nothing more vomitous than an ill-informed ‘Irish’-American, trust me. All boils down to fighting and drinking with them, trust me, and they know nothing else whatsoever about being Irish.

Graeme Cant
Graeme Cant
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Rubbish, Rhys. The US doesn’t project anything onto you. You – and your compatriots – reach out for it.
Your countrymen look at them and can’t help being influenced and attracted by a smarter, more energetic, more dynamic, more entertaining, more ALIVE, more promising culture for most people.
Europeans are fascinated by the way the US is so much like Europe – from which it derived – but better. All the intellectuals in the article went to the US to work out what it had that was so attractive but really hard to define. Not attractive to them personally (so they said) but what drives them mad is that, in general, the US and its culture are extraordinarily attractive to the non-intellectual mass of Europeans. American domination of Europe took place by invitation. It was welcomed – fashion, film, mores, music, even their soldiers – almost every aspect of the USA.
The US doesn’t attract opprobrium because it “bombs defenceless nations”. Its so-called imperialism isn’t nation-conquering like many European nations were. It’s such an attractive culture that it conquers with charm which attracts chagrin from the pygmy gatekeepers like yourself in Europe and much of the rest of the world. That’s how I read many of the comments here.
If a world-wide poll was taken asking where people would prefer to live, the US would win by billions of votes. And everyone bad-mouthing the US here knows this to be true.
Have a nice day!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

That seems fair.. I do however think we Irish have a considerable influence on America since 1st, 2nd and 3rd generations still call themselves “Irish” there. Probably 40 million of us..

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean Brophy

A question: would you regard anti fascism as a moral imperative? How about anti Naziism? Okay anti-totalitarianism? ..just asking is all.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean Brophy

It’s not possible to be pro-something the Americans will oppose without being concomitantly anti-American.
As a smaller nation, we aren’t going to be able to project our positive beliefs onto the USA, so what we have to do is stop them projecting their unwanted values onto us.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean Brophy

A question: would you regard anti fascism as a moral imperative? How about anti Naziism? Okay anti-totalitarianism? ..just asking is all.

Sean Brophy
Sean Brophy
1 year ago

I am repelled by the suggestion that Anti-Americanism is a moral imperative. What sort of morality is that? It’s a morality based on hatred. Perhaps we can attempt to rehabilitate this hatred with vague notions like cultural snobbery or social justice, but it is hatred all the same. Why not base a moral imperative on some good that is deficient in America and abundant in Europe? Something like social solidarity, perhaps.

Last edited 1 year ago by Sean Brophy
Jonas Moze
Jonas Moze
1 year ago

I tried to run the article through google Translate to see what it said, but it came back even more chaotic and disjointed and through an even even darker and wavier looking glass.

Anyone who can condense this into 3 short paragraphs with a thesis, an argument in support, and a conclusion, please do, and post it below.ï»ż

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonas Moze
Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonas Moze

To be fair to the author, compared to Baidrillard’s writing (over which I scratched my head at university), the article is extremely clear.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

My favourite take-away was:
“…French sub-intellectuals such as Bernard-Henri LĂ©vy…”
Ouch!!

Nicholas Coulson
Nicholas Coulson
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Agreed. The author is either very brave or very foolish. Either way he’s right!

Nicholas Coulson
Nicholas Coulson
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Agreed. The author is either very brave or very foolish. Either way he’s right!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

My favourite take-away was:
“…French sub-intellectuals such as Bernard-Henri LĂ©vy…”
Ouch!!

Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonas Moze

The US is still a young society. An appropriate metaphor would be a teenager, subject to frequent wild mood swings, lacking maturity and depth of insight. Throw in the teenager’s superficial understanding of complex problems and accompanying tendency to approach every issue with brute force, as well as their susceptibility to slick sales pitches, and escalate up to a national character.

As evidence, one could look at the strategic incomprehensibility of most recent wars, including that on drugs and the one not being waged against the invasion on the southern border. Add in how easily the bizarre woke nonsense, spewing from all its institutions, has been swallowed to complete the metaphor.

In conclusion, the rest of the world is in the position of the parents of a bi polar teenage boy with Khal Drogo’s physique. Wishing everyday it had turned out differently but now fearful of ever taking their eyes off him.

Just need a Frenchman now to turn it into a couple of books

Nicholas Coulson
Nicholas Coulson
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

I’ve always found it helpful to think of the USA as the largest emerging market

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

The USA isn’t a teenager, it’s a psychotic 2 year old throwing tantrums in the global supermarket.You’ve all seen embarrassed mothers having to ride out the storms, well the world has had to do likewise since 1948.

Jeanie K
Jeanie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Actually, since 1916.

Graeme Cant
Graeme Cant
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeanie K

So… the US intervention in the Great War was a 2-year-old’s tantrum in the global supermarket.
Interesting description of what definitely looked like being dragged unwillingly into deciding who would claim an indecisive victory in that episode of Europe’s thousand-year long recurrent internecine frenzies of self-destruction.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Cant

Nope; back the the US was a totally different country with a totally different set of values..

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Cant

Nope; back the the US was a totally different country with a totally different set of values..

Graeme Cant
Graeme Cant
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeanie K

So… the US intervention in the Great War was a 2-year-old’s tantrum in the global supermarket.
Interesting description of what definitely looked like being dragged unwillingly into deciding who would claim an indecisive victory in that episode of Europe’s thousand-year long recurrent internecine frenzies of self-destruction.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Please, keep going 🙂

Jeanie K
Jeanie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Actually, since 1916.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Please, keep going 🙂

Leonardo Rodrigues
Leonardo Rodrigues
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

Better a teenager that can become a better adult, than adults that have become complacent to the ways of the medieval times. Europeans love to point out the inequality found in the USA, but I prefer that to the equality in poverty found in the EU. All I see in Europe are young professionals in profitable fields stuck on tiny apartments, without any chance of social mobility

Nicholas Coulson
Nicholas Coulson
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

I’ve always found it helpful to think of the USA as the largest emerging market

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

The USA isn’t a teenager, it’s a psychotic 2 year old throwing tantrums in the global supermarket.You’ve all seen embarrassed mothers having to ride out the storms, well the world has had to do likewise since 1948.

Leonardo Rodrigues
Leonardo Rodrigues
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

Better a teenager that can become a better adult, than adults that have become complacent to the ways of the medieval times. Europeans love to point out the inequality found in the USA, but I prefer that to the equality in poverty found in the EU. All I see in Europe are young professionals in profitable fields stuck on tiny apartments, without any chance of social mobility

Theodor Adorno
Theodor Adorno
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonas Moze

So only ideas that can be expressed in three short paragraphs are worth reading and thinking about? That is the intellectual and aesthetic attitude of the Twitter age and, ironically, evidence of the accuracy of Baudrillard’s (and the author’s) analysis.
I’m hopeful that the above three lines are even better than the requested three short paragraphs 


Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Theodor Adorno

No, but when you’re trying to make a point, unnecessary self-indulgent verbiage only gets in the way.

Last edited 1 year ago by Rocky Martiano
Theodor Adorno
Theodor Adorno
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

“Unnecessary self-indulgent” – it sounds like you have quite rigid and pre-conceived notions of what forms of expression qualify as necessary and non-indulgent. Luckily, writers like Baudrillard aren’t afraid of nuance and subtlety and the writer of this article reflects that well rather than seeking to act as the vocabulary and expression police. If it wasn’t full of unnecessarily flowery language, I’d suggest you check out Alexander Pope’s “The Dunciad”.

Theodor Adorno
Theodor Adorno
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

“Unnecessary self-indulgent” – it sounds like you have quite rigid and pre-conceived notions of what forms of expression qualify as necessary and non-indulgent. Luckily, writers like Baudrillard aren’t afraid of nuance and subtlety and the writer of this article reflects that well rather than seeking to act as the vocabulary and expression police. If it wasn’t full of unnecessarily flowery language, I’d suggest you check out Alexander Pope’s “The Dunciad”.

michael harris
michael harris
1 year ago
Reply to  Theodor Adorno

You are not Theodor Adorno. But if, by freakish gift, you are indeed his reborn spirit better you go away and play piano.

Theodor Adorno
Theodor Adorno
1 year ago
Reply to  michael harris

I’ll tinkle the ivories if you go away and scrub yer Nan.

Theodor Adorno
Theodor Adorno
1 year ago
Reply to  michael harris

I’ll tinkle the ivories if you go away and scrub yer Nan.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Theodor Adorno

No, but when you’re trying to make a point, unnecessary self-indulgent verbiage only gets in the way.

Last edited 1 year ago by Rocky Martiano
michael harris
michael harris
1 year ago
Reply to  Theodor Adorno

You are not Theodor Adorno. But if, by freakish gift, you are indeed his reborn spirit better you go away and play piano.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonas Moze

To be fair to the author, compared to Baidrillard’s writing (over which I scratched my head at university), the article is extremely clear.

Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonas Moze

The US is still a young society. An appropriate metaphor would be a teenager, subject to frequent wild mood swings, lacking maturity and depth of insight. Throw in the teenager’s superficial understanding of complex problems and accompanying tendency to approach every issue with brute force, as well as their susceptibility to slick sales pitches, and escalate up to a national character.

As evidence, one could look at the strategic incomprehensibility of most recent wars, including that on drugs and the one not being waged against the invasion on the southern border. Add in how easily the bizarre woke nonsense, spewing from all its institutions, has been swallowed to complete the metaphor.

In conclusion, the rest of the world is in the position of the parents of a bi polar teenage boy with Khal Drogo’s physique. Wishing everyday it had turned out differently but now fearful of ever taking their eyes off him.

Just need a Frenchman now to turn it into a couple of books

Theodor Adorno
Theodor Adorno
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonas Moze

So only ideas that can be expressed in three short paragraphs are worth reading and thinking about? That is the intellectual and aesthetic attitude of the Twitter age and, ironically, evidence of the accuracy of Baudrillard’s (and the author’s) analysis.
I’m hopeful that the above three lines are even better than the requested three short paragraphs 


Jonas Moze
Jonas Moze
1 year ago

I tried to run the article through google Translate to see what it said, but it came back even more chaotic and disjointed and through an even even darker and wavier looking glass.

Anyone who can condense this into 3 short paragraphs with a thesis, an argument in support, and a conclusion, please do, and post it below.ï»ż

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonas Moze
Vince B
Vince B
1 year ago

I love my weird, wonderful, warm, awful, brutal, dynamic, heroic, cynical, naive, villainous, selfish, generous, stupid, brilliant country, the United States. I don’t want it to become more European, nor do I want Europe to become more like the US. I would miss them both.
For Europe’s sake, I mostly don’t want the disease of left-wing race and gender obsession to seep abroad. To hear intelligent liberal European discussion about the proper conception and appreciation of these innate characteristics is so refreshing to an American who, by default, can only be subject to harangues by college kids or radical chic academics. Or virtue signaling scoldings from “look at me!” mainstream liberals.
Please, Europe: fight the American disease of wokeness with everything you’ve got.

Last edited 1 year ago by Vince B
Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Vince B

I think, if you go back a little in history, you’ll find that the current leftist lunacy has its roots in European philosophers like Foucault, Barthes, Derrida, Lacan and others.

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Vince B

I think, if you go back a little in history, you’ll find that the current leftist lunacy has its roots in European philosophers like Foucault, Barthes, Derrida, Lacan and others.

Vince B
Vince B
1 year ago

I love my weird, wonderful, warm, awful, brutal, dynamic, heroic, cynical, naive, villainous, selfish, generous, stupid, brilliant country, the United States. I don’t want it to become more European, nor do I want Europe to become more like the US. I would miss them both.
For Europe’s sake, I mostly don’t want the disease of left-wing race and gender obsession to seep abroad. To hear intelligent liberal European discussion about the proper conception and appreciation of these innate characteristics is so refreshing to an American who, by default, can only be subject to harangues by college kids or radical chic academics. Or virtue signaling scoldings from “look at me!” mainstream liberals.
Please, Europe: fight the American disease of wokeness with everything you’ve got.

Last edited 1 year ago by Vince B
Douglas McNeish
Douglas McNeish
1 year ago

The widespread rioting of Moroccan “fans” in cities across France and Belgium, whether their “national team” lost, won, or didn’t even play, sheds an up to the moment light on the writer’s analysis. Are the ills of America imported, as he suggests, or are they home-grown in Europe?