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The betrayal of Britain’s seaside towns Poverty and despair haunt these forgotten regions

Blackpool illustrates Beveridge's failed ambition (RDImages/Epics/Getty Images)

Blackpool illustrates Beveridge's failed ambition (RDImages/Epics/Getty Images)


November 28, 2022   6 mins

It was the first night of Blackpool’s Illuminations, when seven miles of promenade are transformed into a parade of glitter set against the ink-black Irish Sea. The traffic had poured in from across Lancashire to crawl, bumper to bumper, beneath the dazzling arrays. Yet by the following morning, the tourists had disappeared, and despite the September day of brilliant sunshine, the promenade was almost empty — apart from the rough sleepers.

From her bench facing the sea, one elderly lady rearranged her sleeping bag and sat up to light her first cigarette of the day; another rough sleeper was angry as he stumbled, yelling into the waves: “Yer English, yer oughter to be ashamed of yersain.”

He has a point. Britain’s biggest seaside resort is home to a sharp and uncomfortable paradox: while it accommodates millions of visitors every year, several of its wards are among the most deprived in the country and with the worst life expectancy. This is a place which, for all its beauty and associations with pleasure and fun, results in shortened lives blighted by debt, ill health and substance abuse.

When William Beveridge set out to eradicate five “Giant Evils” from Britain, “want” was first on his list. In the early Forties, as the social reformer gathered his data and prepared his plans, this priority seemed straightforward: people needed basics such as food, shelter, warmth and clothing. His plans for a social security system “from cradle to grave” would ensure that no one would go short. But 80 years on, Blackpool provides a grim example of deprivation not seen since the Thirties. Food banks report a 54% increase in the need for food parcels in the last year, dependence on charity has become normal for hundreds of families in the town, and the rise in energy prices brings particular hardship in a place with poor housing stock, well-known for its bitter winds and rain sweeping in off the sea.

Further up the coast, in Morecambe, a similar story is playing out. The North Lancashire Citizen Advice Bureau (CAB) has seen a massive rise in clients desperate for help — in some places, a staggering 566% increase in the last year. The most common issue is struggling with utility bills, followed closely by problems with debt. Households get caught in a pattern of borrowing and relying on charity because levels of benefit are not sufficient, suggests Joanna Young, the CAB’s head of research for North Lancashire. She adds that their clients talk of how one “mini-crisis” — it can be as routine as the need for a new pair of school shoes — can set a family back for months. Precarity has become a way of life.

What would Beveridge make of places such as Blackpool and Morecambe? No doubt he would view his dream as a failure, despite a huge increase in the country’s GDP in the intervening 80 years. But what would also have surprised Beveridge are the causes of that poverty, and the fact that at least some can be traced right back to gaps and mistakes in his original plans.

Beveridge was no socialist, and he believed that work was the true solution to poverty (after all, he listed “idleness” as one of the other five Giants). But, as Professor Jonathan Bradshaw has noted, he overlooked the issue of low pay. Roughly 40% of the CAB’s clients in North Lancashire are in work — and this figure is supported by nationwide data, such as research by Joseph Rowntree Foundation which found that three out of four children living in poverty have a working parent. Chronic low pay particularly affects coastal resorts because so much of their employment is in the worst-affected sectors such as care and hospitality; the average wage in Blackpool is a third below the national figure. The result is a coastal pattern of some of the lowest average wages, highest levels of indebtedness and insolvencies. And this was already getting worse well before the devastating economic damage of the pandemic and the cost-of-living crisis.

But Blackpool and Morecambe do not just illustrate the failure of Beveridge’s ambition; they also demonstrate forms of “want” that he never envisaged. Beveridge’s interpretation of poverty was strictly material, but in the 21st century the relevance and importance of another form of poverty has become starkly apparent. Blackpool and Morecambe are just two of the dozens of seaside resorts struggling with what are known as the “diseases of despair”.

Seaside towns have been left to cope with a disproportionate number of the most troubled in society. When relationships break down, when prisoners are released, when people with substance abuse issues want a new start, the childhood memories of a seaside resort can appear to offer hope, and every year thousands arrive on the coast looking for a new start. A major driver is housing costs: as they have soared out of affordable reach in most cities, many of the poorest and most vulnerable are effectively forced out. They get on a train to the end of the line. In the South-East, this includes towns such as Clacton (where the neighbouring resort of Jaywick has held the designation of the poorest place in the UK since 2010), Hastings, and the Thanet resorts of Margate and Ramsgate. Similarly, rising prices in Manchester and Preston ensure that people end up drifting to Blackpool and Morecambe. And this holds for countless other resort towns, from Scarborough to Skegness, Ilfracombe to Weston-Super-Mare and Rhyl in North Wales.

When I visited Blackpool in September, I spoke to Ian Treasure, who has worked on a number of local projects for rough sleepers. As we passed along the streets adjoining the promenade, he pointed out the tell-tale signs of “Houses in Multiple Occupation” which dominate the area. Long lines of door bells and rows of bins mark out the bedsits created out of the former hotels. The cheap housing stock is often bought up by absentee landlords and divided up into accommodation which can be rented for a fraction of the cost. This is what draws the approximately 8,000 people who arrive in Blackpool every year; a large proportion of whom are on benefits and are disproportionately male and single. They bring with them many of their demons, lack of trust and relationship. What ties they may have had – family or friends – are left behind, making this type of coastal poverty often lonely and unsupported.

These forms of emotional and relationship poverty were not something Beveridge grasped in the Forties, but with them comes poor mental health, and in the case of Blackpool, some of the highest suicide and self-harm rates in the country. Four Blackpool wards have the lowest life expectancy in the country at 66.6 years, compared to a UK average of 82.3 years. As the Chief Medical Officer’s annual 2021 report on seaside towns makes clear, Blackpool has “the single most vulnerable population in the country in the most inappropriate accommodation”.

Yet the growth of this desperate poverty has only accelerated in recent years; during the pandemic, the buy-to-let market in Blackpool boomed, encouraged by the relaxation on stamp duty and promises of high investment yields from tenants on housing benefits. Elsewhere, Beveridge would have been appalled by the misuse of public funds; his central argument in support of the welfare state was that it would make the population healthier and better educated in order to underpin economic growth. In contrast, Blackpool (and many other coastal towns) has resulted in the opposite; a system of farming the most vulnerable in society at government expense, with the profits sucked out by landlords who do not live in the area.

As if this were not enough, many seaside towns also face another of the great social challenges of our time — one which Beveridge did not envisage, and which is, in many ways, the result of his great achievement, the founding of the NHS. That is, the fact that we are living longer, and that many choose to spend their retirement years in coastal towns; Minehead in West Somerset and Skegness and its neighbouring Lincolnshire coast resorts have some of the most elderly populations in the UK. This will be the great test of the NHS over the coming decades; our longer lives require the management of complex chronic health conditions, leading to greater demands for health and social care. Yet vacancies for doctors and nurses are higher on such poorly connected coasts, while the ratio of elderly to people of working age is worsening, raising concerns over who will care for the growing number of octogenarians by the end of this decade.

The big picture here is the power of geography to determine lives. The British economy is driven by the vitality of cities and this has shaped infrastructure investment (disproportionately concentrated in London). Meanwhile, the periphery is neglected, only useful as a form of cheap investment or a zone to dump those whose needs are no longer accommodated elsewhere. The challenges for the coasts’ overstretched councils and health authorities are Sisyphean, with little recognition of their unique nature in Westminster or Whitehall. The Levelling Up agenda of recent years may have dominated the headlines, yet it has showed scant insight into these areas’ plight given its preoccupation with driving up productivity — always a challenge in care and hospitality. Eighty years on, the entire of Britain needs another Beveridge. But perhaps more than anywhere else, its forgotten seaside towns need a Beveridge who can actually get the job done.


Madeleine Bunting is a writer and Visiting Professor at the International Inequalities Institute at the LSE. Her book, The Seaside, England’s Love Affair, will be published by Granta in May 2023

MBunting_

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Barbara Stevens
Barbara Stevens
1 year ago

Now we have illegal migrants sent to seaside hotels, who are living on benefits and certainly won’t make seaside places any better but add more misery to seaside resort life for those already in dire straights.

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

They’re keeping hotels running. Why not give the refugees ( they’re not illegal migrants ) money or tokens to spend in the local shops? Would reinvigorate local business.

Barbara Stevens
Barbara Stevens
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

They are not refugees they come from a country that is not at war. What ever reason they come here in their thousands only time will tell.
The councils of seaside resorts have not got enough money to look after the local community without them being able to keep those who are coming into Dover illegally and putting them in hotels.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago

They obviously don’t come just from one country, but it is true that some countries are not at war, such as Albania, though they may be very poor and poorly governed.

Pete F
Pete F
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Britain is poorly governed, too. No wonder so many people want to leave. Albanians evidently don’t get the true picture of life in the UK before they come. They may as well stay where they are.

Pete F
Pete F
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Britain is poorly governed, too. No wonder so many people want to leave. Albanians evidently don’t get the true picture of life in the UK before they come. They may as well stay where they are.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago

They obviously don’t come just from one country, but it is true that some countries are not at war, such as Albania, though they may be very poor and poorly governed.

Benjamin D'Oveire
Benjamin D'Oveire
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

Naive.

Dominic S
Dominic S
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

You give them your money.
Most of them came here for handouts, it’d be a pity if you let them down.

Barbara Stevens
Barbara Stevens
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

They are not refugees they come from a country that is not at war. What ever reason they come here in their thousands only time will tell.
The councils of seaside resorts have not got enough money to look after the local community without them being able to keep those who are coming into Dover illegally and putting them in hotels.

Benjamin D'Oveire
Benjamin D'Oveire
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

Naive.

Dominic S
Dominic S
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

You give them your money.
Most of them came here for handouts, it’d be a pity if you let them down.

Dominic S
Dominic S
1 year ago

I worked in both Torquay and Exmouth in the 1990s, and lived in Plymouth. Under a vague sheen of seaside-holidayness both Torquay and Exmouth were plagued with drug problems, mental health issues, alcohol trouble, [very] young mums, and corruption. I can’t imagine they’re any better now.

Plymouth, as a city, was hard. But it never pretended to be anything else – a naval city through and through.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic S

In the USA, Benton Harbor, Michigan was a world famous resort town, home of the House of David and their businesses.
When Indiana residents found out welfare benefits were much more generous, a huge influx of poor Indiana Black folks turned Benton Harbor into a desolate crime ridden ghetto virtually overnight.
The mayor was on TV when I was staying in a hotel on business, and said he could shoot a cannon down Main St. with no fear of hurting anyone.
This has since extended up the coast.
I guess things are the same all over.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic S

In the USA, Benton Harbor, Michigan was a world famous resort town, home of the House of David and their businesses.
When Indiana residents found out welfare benefits were much more generous, a huge influx of poor Indiana Black folks turned Benton Harbor into a desolate crime ridden ghetto virtually overnight.
The mayor was on TV when I was staying in a hotel on business, and said he could shoot a cannon down Main St. with no fear of hurting anyone.
This has since extended up the coast.
I guess things are the same all over.

David Walker
David Walker
1 year ago

Not to mention importing diphtheria…

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  David Walker

And COVID-22.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  David Walker

And COVID-22.

Paula G
Paula G
1 year ago

Yes, they need somewhere to lay their heads, and take showers. I wish towns would pay out for tiny houses, or renting hotels. However, the people need to be able to clean their spaces, and someone has to pay liability insurance if there are rapes or stabbings.

The govt. seems prepared to do this for refugees, so I wish they would do for people who have got themselves mentally off the rails at a point in their lives.

Handouts of bananas with slogans, one Christmas or Thanksgiving meal, or fruit gummies and cereal bars are not going to change lives. They need shelter they can count on, showers, and nutritious food.

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
1 year ago

Correct. I live in one of the towns mentioned and agree completely with the analysis. The preponderance of old people, untrained ‘carers’ and care homes, together with a dearth of GPs because they move to better places creates a horrible decay. I’m moving out soon


glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

They’re keeping hotels running. Why not give the refugees ( they’re not illegal migrants ) money or tokens to spend in the local shops? Would reinvigorate local business.

Dominic S
Dominic S
1 year ago

I worked in both Torquay and Exmouth in the 1990s, and lived in Plymouth. Under a vague sheen of seaside-holidayness both Torquay and Exmouth were plagued with drug problems, mental health issues, alcohol trouble, [very] young mums, and corruption. I can’t imagine they’re any better now.

Plymouth, as a city, was hard. But it never pretended to be anything else – a naval city through and through.

David Walker
David Walker
1 year ago

Not to mention importing diphtheria…

Paula G
Paula G
1 year ago

Yes, they need somewhere to lay their heads, and take showers. I wish towns would pay out for tiny houses, or renting hotels. However, the people need to be able to clean their spaces, and someone has to pay liability insurance if there are rapes or stabbings.

The govt. seems prepared to do this for refugees, so I wish they would do for people who have got themselves mentally off the rails at a point in their lives.

Handouts of bananas with slogans, one Christmas or Thanksgiving meal, or fruit gummies and cereal bars are not going to change lives. They need shelter they can count on, showers, and nutritious food.

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
1 year ago

Correct. I live in one of the towns mentioned and agree completely with the analysis. The preponderance of old people, untrained ‘carers’ and care homes, together with a dearth of GPs because they move to better places creates a horrible decay. I’m moving out soon


Barbara Stevens
Barbara Stevens
1 year ago

Now we have illegal migrants sent to seaside hotels, who are living on benefits and certainly won’t make seaside places any better but add more misery to seaside resort life for those already in dire straights.

Mark Chadwick
Mark Chadwick
1 year ago

Tories, Labour and LibDems to the middle-class: “You’re screwed!”
Tories, Labour and LibDems to the working-class: “You’re even more screwed!!”
Tories, Labour and LibDems to veterans living on the streets with PTSD: “Guess what?!….”
Tories, Labour and LibDems to illegal immigrants: “You can have an upgrade because all the four star hotels are full now.”

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Chadwick

Tories, Labour and LibDems to the working-class: “Don’t look at the rich ripping the country off for billions! LOOK! Some refugees!”
And you fall for it.

Benjamin D'Oveire
Benjamin D'Oveire
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

‘some’ illegal economic queue jumpers? 40,000 + this year and counting.

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

What is an illegal economic queue jumper? Someone who wants a job more than someone else? What do you mean illegal? Refugees are not illegal. Those who are not refugees get deported, or would do if the government actually invested in the immigration system. Most of the boat people are refugees btw and are not economic migrants. And are you aware how small that 40,000 is in the overall figures? https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2022/08/25/immigration-at-all-time-record-level-with-record-1-1-million-visas-issued-to-come-and-live-in-the-uk

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

Try as you might, mass migration will never be anything but evil, either for those wrenched from their homes, or those being invaded.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

Try as you might, mass migration will never be anything but evil, either for those wrenched from their homes, or those being invaded.

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

What is an illegal economic queue jumper? Someone who wants a job more than someone else? What do you mean illegal? Refugees are not illegal. Those who are not refugees get deported, or would do if the government actually invested in the immigration system. Most of the boat people are refugees btw and are not economic migrants. And are you aware how small that 40,000 is in the overall figures? https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2022/08/25/immigration-at-all-time-record-level-with-record-1-1-million-visas-issued-to-come-and-live-in-the-uk

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

Rich ripping the country off. What a dishonest old trope

Andrew Clare
Andrew Clare
1 year ago

Successive governments have let the population down. Lack of investment and billions of pounds squirrelled away into offshore accounts have made this rich country into a very unequal country. Our rulers use their rightwing media to convince the public that all our woes are to do with the poor and unfortunate souls of society and nothing to do with their greed. The worst thing of all is that people believe it just like many on here do. Disappointing.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Clare

Hardly a new phenomenon, though. Ever read Oliver Twist?

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Clare

Hardly a new phenomenon, though. Ever read Oliver Twist?

Mark M Breza
Mark M Breza
1 year ago

Huh your new PM is richer than the royals, then his wife …
Of course those last two PMs failed in performance ?
We used to tar & feather Tories in the USA

Last edited 1 year ago by Mark M Breza
glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

Not a trope, a simple fact.

Paula G
Paula G
1 year ago

Things will not change until the politicians agree to have houses in their neighborhoods available to refugees or people who ended up on the streets.

it would also help if whole charity were given. That is, responsibility for a family or group, rather than attending charity dinners that actually give a pitiful amount of money to charities. cereal bars and fruit rolls and bananas with slogans should also not be seen as acceptable.
The charitable dinner folks should give the cost of a Givenchy dress or two to support families, one at a time. Once stable, they can contribute, if people provide jobs.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago

But they are, and Mass Migration is how.
It would not happen if they didn’t derive benefit from it.
Successful people are not inherently evil, but it is not vaguely unusual.
Most people got their wealth the old fashioned way:
They stole it.

Andrew Clare
Andrew Clare
1 year ago

Successive governments have let the population down. Lack of investment and billions of pounds squirrelled away into offshore accounts have made this rich country into a very unequal country. Our rulers use their rightwing media to convince the public that all our woes are to do with the poor and unfortunate souls of society and nothing to do with their greed. The worst thing of all is that people believe it just like many on here do. Disappointing.

Mark M Breza
Mark M Breza
1 year ago

Huh your new PM is richer than the royals, then his wife …
Of course those last two PMs failed in performance ?
We used to tar & feather Tories in the USA

Last edited 1 year ago by Mark M Breza
glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

Not a trope, a simple fact.

Paula G
Paula G
1 year ago

Things will not change until the politicians agree to have houses in their neighborhoods available to refugees or people who ended up on the streets.

it would also help if whole charity were given. That is, responsibility for a family or group, rather than attending charity dinners that actually give a pitiful amount of money to charities. cereal bars and fruit rolls and bananas with slogans should also not be seen as acceptable.
The charitable dinner folks should give the cost of a Givenchy dress or two to support families, one at a time. Once stable, they can contribute, if people provide jobs.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago

But they are, and Mass Migration is how.
It would not happen if they didn’t derive benefit from it.
Successful people are not inherently evil, but it is not vaguely unusual.
Most people got their wealth the old fashioned way:
They stole it.

John Burke
John Burke
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

It’s why the ruling class rule… divide people.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Burke
john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  John Burke

I just don’t understand why people go on these tangents when you posted the whole answer in one concise sentence.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  John Burke

I just don’t understand why people go on these tangents when you posted the whole answer in one concise sentence.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

As you related to Nye Bevan by any chance?

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

And how are they doing it?
By mass separation of immigrants from their heritage and divorcing citizens from theirs and giving them a polyglot in return, comprised of various migrant heritage and powered by state sponsored miscegenation, that’s how.

Benjamin D'Oveire
Benjamin D'Oveire
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

‘some’ illegal economic queue jumpers? 40,000 + this year and counting.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

Rich ripping the country off. What a dishonest old trope

John Burke
John Burke
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

It’s why the ruling class rule… divide people.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Burke
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

As you related to Nye Bevan by any chance?

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

And how are they doing it?
By mass separation of immigrants from their heritage and divorcing citizens from theirs and giving them a polyglot in return, comprised of various migrant heritage and powered by state sponsored miscegenation, that’s how.

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Chadwick

Tories, Labour and LibDems to the working-class: “Don’t look at the rich ripping the country off for billions! LOOK! Some refugees!”
And you fall for it.

Mark Chadwick
Mark Chadwick
1 year ago

Tories, Labour and LibDems to the middle-class: “You’re screwed!”
Tories, Labour and LibDems to the working-class: “You’re even more screwed!!”
Tories, Labour and LibDems to veterans living on the streets with PTSD: “Guess what?!….”
Tories, Labour and LibDems to illegal immigrants: “You can have an upgrade because all the four star hotels are full now.”

Gordon Arta
Gordon Arta
1 year ago

Beveridge identified idleness, but this ‘evil’ has been suppressed in the cradle to the grave welfare industry, derided as ‘workfare’ and ‘victim shaming’. What Beveridge failed to anticipate, just as in the US with the Great Society, was that in removing responsibility from those most able to discharge it, people themselves, to a remote and disinterested ‘state’, the safety net of welfarism would turn into idleness and dependency.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Gordon Arta

On the subject of Beveridge “… his great achievement, the founding of the NHS.”
Some might say it was the worst disaster ever foisted on the British people

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

“The road to Hell is paved




..”

Gordon Buckman
Gordon Buckman
1 year ago



.with good intentions.

Gordon Buckman
Gordon Buckman
1 year ago



.with good intentions.

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago

The NHS was brilliant for generations, it’s crumbling now – as is everything. You have to be very strange to hate it though.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

“The road to Hell is paved




..”

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago

The NHS was brilliant for generations, it’s crumbling now – as is everything. You have to be very strange to hate it though.

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago
Reply to  Gordon Arta

The article says the poor are often working. Low pay in the service industry is a big problem.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Gordon Arta

On the subject of Beveridge “… his great achievement, the founding of the NHS.”
Some might say it was the worst disaster ever foisted on the British people

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago
Reply to  Gordon Arta

The article says the poor are often working. Low pay in the service industry is a big problem.

Gordon Arta
Gordon Arta
1 year ago

Beveridge identified idleness, but this ‘evil’ has been suppressed in the cradle to the grave welfare industry, derided as ‘workfare’ and ‘victim shaming’. What Beveridge failed to anticipate, just as in the US with the Great Society, was that in removing responsibility from those most able to discharge it, people themselves, to a remote and disinterested ‘state’, the safety net of welfarism would turn into idleness and dependency.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

There are rough sleepers in seaside towns and inequalities exist, true. Some rough sleepers become so because of their bad circumstances and some because of their poor choices.
But moaning about it achieves nothing. Are you prepared to compel rough sleepers to be housed in camps, barracks, or workhouses elsewhere? If not then you lack the moral strength to resolve the problem. Other solutions are possible but merely increasing benefits is unlikely to have a major impact… and none of the major parties appear to give a damn.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

There are rough sleepers in seaside towns and inequalities exist, true. Some rough sleepers become so because of their bad circumstances and some because of their poor choices.
But moaning about it achieves nothing. Are you prepared to compel rough sleepers to be housed in camps, barracks, or workhouses elsewhere? If not then you lack the moral strength to resolve the problem. Other solutions are possible but merely increasing benefits is unlikely to have a major impact… and none of the major parties appear to give a damn.

Belinda Shaw
Belinda Shaw
1 year ago

I know Blackpool, I grew up in the fishing port of Fleetwood just miles away. Spent my teenage years enjoying the entertainment and had my first job at the Bank Hey Street Woolworths. These seaside towns were very robust, people had jobs and pride, until cheap overseas travel (and the decline of out-of-season industries to support the winter economy) killed the seasonal hospitality businesses. Remember when the major political parties and the TUC held their annual conferences in Blackpool? The place was smart and energetic. And the homeless and drug-addicted haven’t found their way to Blackpool by choice, they have been placed there, in their thousands, by councils far from the coast, using the emptied bed and breakfast accommodation now bought up by absent landlords.

The elderly population in Blackpool and other seaside towns represent the best of the generations who worked and built these places, and they should not be treated as a burden now. Indeed it is the younger generations in these areas who are often sickest and most dependent on state help. But there are always pockets of good people – the council, many community groups – trying to keep people from wasting their lives.

Belinda Shaw
Belinda Shaw
1 year ago

I know Blackpool, I grew up in the fishing port of Fleetwood just miles away. Spent my teenage years enjoying the entertainment and had my first job at the Bank Hey Street Woolworths. These seaside towns were very robust, people had jobs and pride, until cheap overseas travel (and the decline of out-of-season industries to support the winter economy) killed the seasonal hospitality businesses. Remember when the major political parties and the TUC held their annual conferences in Blackpool? The place was smart and energetic. And the homeless and drug-addicted haven’t found their way to Blackpool by choice, they have been placed there, in their thousands, by councils far from the coast, using the emptied bed and breakfast accommodation now bought up by absent landlords.

The elderly population in Blackpool and other seaside towns represent the best of the generations who worked and built these places, and they should not be treated as a burden now. Indeed it is the younger generations in these areas who are often sickest and most dependent on state help. But there are always pockets of good people – the council, many community groups – trying to keep people from wasting their lives.

David Lawrence
David Lawrence
1 year ago

This is the kind of ‘Gosh I’ve just noticed that the Pope’s a Catholic’ shock revelation you get when you let journalists pretend to be academics.

Mixing up the problems of coastal communities with very different demographics and economics just because you’ve noticed that the road ends when it gets to the sea.

Last edited 1 year ago by David Lawrence
Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lawrence

Are academics any better?

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Neither appear to get out much.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

No, but The 2nd Smartest Man in the World is. He is hosted on Substack and he answers accurately many of the mysteries that confound people on this and other boards.
Check him out, he can use support, and offers subscriptions but doesn’t block anyone for not paying, not even comments because he is spreading truth, not turning a buck on censorship refugees.
And he wouldn’t want these coastal folk blocked from finding out who is manipulating them and why.

Rachel Welsh
Rachel Welsh
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

Who is he?

Rachel Welsh
Rachel Welsh
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

Who is he?

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Neither appear to get out much.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

No, but The 2nd Smartest Man in the World is. He is hosted on Substack and he answers accurately many of the mysteries that confound people on this and other boards.
Check him out, he can use support, and offers subscriptions but doesn’t block anyone for not paying, not even comments because he is spreading truth, not turning a buck on censorship refugees.
And he wouldn’t want these coastal folk blocked from finding out who is manipulating them and why.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lawrence

I still remember the last mass-poverty safari in 2016 following the ‘shocking’ Brexit vote. In enough six years the cycle will repeat again.

Keith J
Keith J
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

A great book: Poverty Safari by Darren McGarvey. Puts into words what working class people experience every day, but what those in power just do not seem to comprehend, no matter how many safaris they venture on.

Last edited 1 year ago by Keith J
john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Keith J

They comprehend just fine, it’s all intentional and they have been playing this game for a millennia.
No money means no power, simple as that.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Keith J

They comprehend just fine, it’s all intentional and they have been playing this game for a millennia.
No money means no power, simple as that.

Keith J
Keith J
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

A great book: Poverty Safari by Darren McGarvey. Puts into words what working class people experience every day, but what those in power just do not seem to comprehend, no matter how many safaris they venture on.

Last edited 1 year ago by Keith J
Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lawrence

Are academics any better?

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lawrence

I still remember the last mass-poverty safari in 2016 following the ‘shocking’ Brexit vote. In enough six years the cycle will repeat again.

David Lawrence
David Lawrence
1 year ago

This is the kind of ‘Gosh I’ve just noticed that the Pope’s a Catholic’ shock revelation you get when you let journalists pretend to be academics.

Mixing up the problems of coastal communities with very different demographics and economics just because you’ve noticed that the road ends when it gets to the sea.

Last edited 1 year ago by David Lawrence
Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago

Intriguing to imagine what Beveridge would have made of the vast ‘issues’ of relationship breakdown and substance abuse in driving the rise of poverty and despair in these grim areas – or whether he would have even understood those terms. Autre temps


Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago

I imagine Beveridge was aware of Hogarth’s Gin Lane and the English history of substance abuse.

Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago

He would have been a lot blunter than that (was my point).

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago

I don’t like the superior tone, ‘English history of substance abuse’ we like to have a good time, heard the saying work hard, play hard? If you’d been raised in margate or ramsgate, you’d understand the appeal of a gin.
You have your fair share of problems too Mr usa, at least we’re not all hooked on opiates and painkillers, didn’t your own big pharma cause that? Wasn’t Afghanistan an American opiate war? All the people in Afghanistan growing poppies for the Americans on the hush? Then they decided they could cut out the middle man and you lost control. Part of the reason they haven’t enough wheat is because they all moved to cultivating poppies.

Quote: in October 2001 poppies were grown on around 74,000 hectares – 285 square miles.

The new figures showed production had increased more than four-fold in 15 years: now opium was being grown on 328,000 hectares – 1,266 square miles.

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47861444.amp

Brewing alcohol is as old as the hills, you read the iliad? Doesn’t noah get trollied in his vineyard in the bible and God tells him off? As are recreational drugs, history of substance abuse is not unique to England, neither is the brewing of alcohol, these things become problems in all places where they are the ONLY escape. You go visit Margate or Ramsgate, Chatham or Stroud if you’re feeling brave. Where hope goes to die. I spent a fair amount of time down there as a teenager, worrying my mum, no jobs, no hope, everything apart from ÂŁ1 shops and betting agencies was either shut down or falling down. It’s probably only got worse. You’d have to be half cut to walk round and not immediately feel the urge to jump off the closest building….
These places need enormous investment, they look like no one’s bothered since 1900. And they probably haven’t.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Chatham and for that matter Stroud were sacrificed in 1984 to placate the wretched Scotch, and thus keep the worthless base at Rosyth open!

There is absolutely no need for such a base so far north, it is simply a strategic extravagance.
It had a use in 1911 when we faced the Kaiser and even later when we still used Scapa Flow,* but NO longer.

(* Until the sad sinking of H.M.S. Royal Oak, by Gunther Prien & U-47.)

Laurence Siegel
Laurence Siegel
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

American here. Our big pharma produced the supply but not the demand. If nobody wanted opioids except for legitimate medical purposes, they wouldn’t get produced. Meanwhile, big pharma produces, at a very affordable price, the medications that keep me alive and reasonably healthy.
We have our coal mining regions, you have those plus I guess seaside resorts. Bundoran, Ireland isn’t looking too good either.
I don’t know about Brits, but Americans used to migrate in search of opportunity when things dried up in their place of origin. That is how California got 40,000,000 people. Now that the unemployed are paid to stay in place as long as they remain unemployed, we’ve stopped moving. The average American used to move house every 5 years, now it’s every 11. The social cost of this stagnation is unbelievable.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago

From the source I provided above:
The White House declared it a national public health emergency in October 2017. More than two million Americans are addicted to opioids, and opioid overdoses have become the leading cause of death in America, ahead of car crashes and gun violence.

The American epidemic began with prescription drugs but, as the rules around prescribing opioids were tightened, addicts had been increasingly turning to heroin, as well as synthetic opioids like Fentanyl.

Your big pharma actively encouraged prescription of those strong opioid painkillers, often in cases where they were unnecessary, then took them away, that’s what I mean by them causing your opiate and heroin problems.

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago

The demand was often created by doctors in the pockets of the Pharma industry. Moving house isnt the same as moving city. People moved house more within cities because the housing was cheaper. And a good percentage of that 40M are immigrants. So almost everything is wrong there.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago

From the source I provided above:
The White House declared it a national public health emergency in October 2017. More than two million Americans are addicted to opioids, and opioid overdoses have become the leading cause of death in America, ahead of car crashes and gun violence.

The American epidemic began with prescription drugs but, as the rules around prescribing opioids were tightened, addicts had been increasingly turning to heroin, as well as synthetic opioids like Fentanyl.

Your big pharma actively encouraged prescription of those strong opioid painkillers, often in cases where they were unnecessary, then took them away, that’s what I mean by them causing your opiate and heroin problems.

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago

The demand was often created by doctors in the pockets of the Pharma industry. Moving house isnt the same as moving city. People moved house more within cities because the housing was cheaper. And a good percentage of that 40M are immigrants. So almost everything is wrong there.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Pharma? Britain came out untouched by the Death Jab?
There is zero superiority expressed by staying on topic, and guess what the topic is?
Hint: Not Outer Mongolia.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Chatham and for that matter Stroud were sacrificed in 1984 to placate the wretched Scotch, and thus keep the worthless base at Rosyth open!

There is absolutely no need for such a base so far north, it is simply a strategic extravagance.
It had a use in 1911 when we faced the Kaiser and even later when we still used Scapa Flow,* but NO longer.

(* Until the sad sinking of H.M.S. Royal Oak, by Gunther Prien & U-47.)

Laurence Siegel
Laurence Siegel
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

American here. Our big pharma produced the supply but not the demand. If nobody wanted opioids except for legitimate medical purposes, they wouldn’t get produced. Meanwhile, big pharma produces, at a very affordable price, the medications that keep me alive and reasonably healthy.
We have our coal mining regions, you have those plus I guess seaside resorts. Bundoran, Ireland isn’t looking too good either.
I don’t know about Brits, but Americans used to migrate in search of opportunity when things dried up in their place of origin. That is how California got 40,000,000 people. Now that the unemployed are paid to stay in place as long as they remain unemployed, we’ve stopped moving. The average American used to move house every 5 years, now it’s every 11. The social cost of this stagnation is unbelievable.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Pharma? Britain came out untouched by the Death Jab?
There is zero superiority expressed by staying on topic, and guess what the topic is?
Hint: Not Outer Mongolia.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

Persephone
Persephone
1 year ago

I don’t think the English are particularly noted for substance abuse. The Russians and the Irish are particularly noted for alcoholism, and the USA for opiate abuse, and cocaine, and Jamaca for smoking weed, but I don’t think that substance abuse is particularly what people think of when they think of the English. They think of the atrocities of colonialization and are appalled that so few Brits feel any remorse about what their country did to so many other parts of the world.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

Bloody hell another high horsed American. You lot just keep coming.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

What utter b*llocks, where did you learn such tosh?

If I may quote from a renowned Spanish philosopher, who had the misfortune to teach at Harvard, one Georges Santayana, this is what he had to say about the British Empire in 1912 :

“Never since the heroic days of Greece has the world had such a sweet, just, boyish master. It will be a black day for the human race when scientific blackguards, conspirators, churls, and fanatics manage to supplant him”.

Do you seriously contend that he was wrong?

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

I don’t think we have any lessons to learn about remorse from the nation that committed genocide of its native peoples and, until 50 years ago, practised apartheid in many of its states.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

You Americans carry on, we’re not asking you to take lessons from us, but before you decide to make sweeping assumptions about ‘English substance abuse’, our love of a gin and the people living in our seaside towns, maybe you should understand what you’re talking about first.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

Yes, you will do the teaching , owning as you do the Black British Prototype, which served as the World Model.
India, Ireland, the sun never set on British rapacity and greed, and no nation has more experience in genocide than England .

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

Shall we have another war?

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

I suppose without your hysterical fantasies your entire world view woukd collapse . Ever heard of the Mughal Empire, for example? The clue is in the word empire, and it was the second Moslem Empire to invade Hindu India.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

Shall we have another war?

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

I suppose without your hysterical fantasies your entire world view woukd collapse . Ever heard of the Mughal Empire, for example? The clue is in the word empire, and it was the second Moslem Empire to invade Hindu India.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

Good Lord!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

You Americans carry on, we’re not asking you to take lessons from us, but before you decide to make sweeping assumptions about ‘English substance abuse’, our love of a gin and the people living in our seaside towns, maybe you should understand what you’re talking about first.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

Yes, you will do the teaching , owning as you do the Black British Prototype, which served as the World Model.
India, Ireland, the sun never set on British rapacity and greed, and no nation has more experience in genocide than England .

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

Good Lord!

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

An American can lecture me on colonialism when they hand back Guam, Guantanamo, Puerto Rico, Hawaii and everything west of New England.

John Huddart
John Huddart
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

You R Wright

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  John Huddart

Wright could not be more absurdly wrong if he tried.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  John Huddart

Wright could not be more absurdly wrong if he tried.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Why exclude New England? Does naming it that legitimize it,or would it be too hard to pretend England didn’t found it?
What ethnicity do you imagine accomplished the Western Expansion?
Was Captain Cook a Pole? How about Paulette?
Why was the English flag over each Island, and Hawaiian flags burned?
Was an American the first to make contact, or a Brit?
Was Hawaii a British Protectorate?
Do you know what you are on about? At all?

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

Ever heard of South and Central America?

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

Ever heard of South and Central America?

John Huddart
John Huddart
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

You R Wright

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Why exclude New England? Does naming it that legitimize it,or would it be too hard to pretend England didn’t found it?
What ethnicity do you imagine accomplished the Western Expansion?
Was Captain Cook a Pole? How about Paulette?
Why was the English flag over each Island, and Hawaiian flags burned?
Was an American the first to make contact, or a Brit?
Was Hawaii a British Protectorate?
Do you know what you are on about? At all?

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

Irish alcohol consumption is below the European average, and DNA damage from the British Genocide is linked to alcoholism in Ireland.
It’s at once largely untrue, but to the extent that it is true, it is “:your” fault.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

Why are there so money Americans on website that supposed be about Britain? Our constituencies? Why do you care about Margate or Ramsgate? Bet you wouldn’t even know where they were on the map! Did we ask you?

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You’re right, I don’t know where those two towns are. But I am very interested in Britain. I get a kick out people on both sides of the pond saying how happy they are they don’t live in the other’s country.

Last edited 1 year ago by Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You’re right, I don’t know where those two towns are. But I am very interested in Britain. I get a kick out people on both sides of the pond saying how happy they are they don’t live in the other’s country.

Last edited 1 year ago by Betsy Arehart
B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

Why are there so money Americans on website that supposed be about Britain? Our constituencies? Why do you care about Margate or Ramsgate? Bet you wouldn’t even know where they were on the map! Did we ask you?

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

Well, “atrocities of colonization” doesn’t come to mind when I think of Britain.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

More money was spent building hospitals in our colonies and ex colonies than in building them in the NHS. Then there is every inch of road, railway, sewage plants, water supplies,.. etc.The colonies were an incredible drain on Britain.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

Bloody hell another high horsed American. You lot just keep coming.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

What utter b*llocks, where did you learn such tosh?

If I may quote from a renowned Spanish philosopher, who had the misfortune to teach at Harvard, one Georges Santayana, this is what he had to say about the British Empire in 1912 :

“Never since the heroic days of Greece has the world had such a sweet, just, boyish master. It will be a black day for the human race when scientific blackguards, conspirators, churls, and fanatics manage to supplant him”.

Do you seriously contend that he was wrong?

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

I don’t think we have any lessons to learn about remorse from the nation that committed genocide of its native peoples and, until 50 years ago, practised apartheid in many of its states.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

An American can lecture me on colonialism when they hand back Guam, Guantanamo, Puerto Rico, Hawaii and everything west of New England.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

Irish alcohol consumption is below the European average, and DNA damage from the British Genocide is linked to alcoholism in Ireland.
It’s at once largely untrue, but to the extent that it is true, it is “:your” fault.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

Well, “atrocities of colonization” doesn’t come to mind when I think of Britain.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  Persephone

More money was spent building hospitals in our colonies and ex colonies than in building them in the NHS. Then there is every inch of road, railway, sewage plants, water supplies,.. etc.The colonies were an incredible drain on Britain.

Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago

He would have been a lot blunter than that (was my point).

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago

I don’t like the superior tone, ‘English history of substance abuse’ we like to have a good time, heard the saying work hard, play hard? If you’d been raised in margate or ramsgate, you’d understand the appeal of a gin.
You have your fair share of problems too Mr usa, at least we’re not all hooked on opiates and painkillers, didn’t your own big pharma cause that? Wasn’t Afghanistan an American opiate war? All the people in Afghanistan growing poppies for the Americans on the hush? Then they decided they could cut out the middle man and you lost control. Part of the reason they haven’t enough wheat is because they all moved to cultivating poppies.

Quote: in October 2001 poppies were grown on around 74,000 hectares – 285 square miles.

The new figures showed production had increased more than four-fold in 15 years: now opium was being grown on 328,000 hectares – 1,266 square miles.

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47861444.amp

Brewing alcohol is as old as the hills, you read the iliad? Doesn’t noah get trollied in his vineyard in the bible and God tells him off? As are recreational drugs, history of substance abuse is not unique to England, neither is the brewing of alcohol, these things become problems in all places where they are the ONLY escape. You go visit Margate or Ramsgate, Chatham or Stroud if you’re feeling brave. Where hope goes to die. I spent a fair amount of time down there as a teenager, worrying my mum, no jobs, no hope, everything apart from ÂŁ1 shops and betting agencies was either shut down or falling down. It’s probably only got worse. You’d have to be half cut to walk round and not immediately feel the urge to jump off the closest building….
These places need enormous investment, they look like no one’s bothered since 1900. And they probably haven’t.

Persephone
Persephone
1 year ago

I don’t think the English are particularly noted for substance abuse. The Russians and the Irish are particularly noted for alcoholism, and the USA for opiate abuse, and cocaine, and Jamaca for smoking weed, but I don’t think that substance abuse is particularly what people think of when they think of the English. They think of the atrocities of colonialization and are appalled that so few Brits feel any remorse about what their country did to so many other parts of the world.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago

I imagine Beveridge was aware of Hogarth’s Gin Lane and the English history of substance abuse.

Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago

Intriguing to imagine what Beveridge would have made of the vast ‘issues’ of relationship breakdown and substance abuse in driving the rise of poverty and despair in these grim areas – or whether he would have even understood those terms. Autre temps


William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

The writer conflates many different issues
 and as a result can’t provide a solution for any of them.
Not mentioned in the article are the rough sleepers who do so from “choice.” The not insignificant number of people who don’t want to work and don’t want what they see as restrictions on their freedom.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Quite right it’s a poor article, mostly pointing out the bleeding obvious. Seaside towns have been homes for the poor since tourists stopped visiting them.
There are many reasons why people are poor; sometimes misfortune, sometimes bad choices. And sometimes some people are hard to help.
The writer points out that many of the poorest seeking help are employed on low wages. The thing is how to help? Or perhaps how can people help themselves?
The article is full of sad stories of serious poverty but no suggestions how to improve things.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

In the UK pretty much all rough sleepers do so by choice. The only way you won’t have a hostel bed for a night is if you’re a hardened drug addict.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

A recent survey of London’s rough sleepers revealed that a disproportionate amount of them were/are Scotch.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago

I think you’ll find that’s Scottish (though they may well have a bottle of the other stuff handy).

Mike MacCormack
Mike MacCormack
1 year ago

I believe many of them are ex-servicemen – trained for combat not for employment or housing themselves.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago

Irish surely. Ireland chucked out their
needy’ people to Britain till it became more prosperous in the ’90s . Up to the era of our beloved Windrush generation, the vast majority of our prisoners were Irish..

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago

I think you’ll find that’s Scottish (though they may well have a bottle of the other stuff handy).

Mike MacCormack
Mike MacCormack
1 year ago

I believe many of them are ex-servicemen – trained for combat not for employment or housing themselves.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago

Irish surely. Ireland chucked out their
needy’ people to Britain till it became more prosperous in the ’90s . Up to the era of our beloved Windrush generation, the vast majority of our prisoners were Irish..

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

A recent survey of London’s rough sleepers revealed that a disproportionate amount of them were/are Scotch.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Quite right it’s a poor article, mostly pointing out the bleeding obvious. Seaside towns have been homes for the poor since tourists stopped visiting them.
There are many reasons why people are poor; sometimes misfortune, sometimes bad choices. And sometimes some people are hard to help.
The writer points out that many of the poorest seeking help are employed on low wages. The thing is how to help? Or perhaps how can people help themselves?
The article is full of sad stories of serious poverty but no suggestions how to improve things.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

In the UK pretty much all rough sleepers do so by choice. The only way you won’t have a hostel bed for a night is if you’re a hardened drug addict.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

The writer conflates many different issues
 and as a result can’t provide a solution for any of them.
Not mentioned in the article are the rough sleepers who do so from “choice.” The not insignificant number of people who don’t want to work and don’t want what they see as restrictions on their freedom.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago

Unless UK GOV is going to make Med vacations illegal what exactly is the solution for Blackpool?

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

That is fundamentally the problem. Cute villages in Cornwall even South Coast resorts will always have a pull. Blackpool and Skeggie? Less. Their economies need diversifying, including support a w/e tourist economy.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

You have a point.
I was in Blackpool a couple of years ago and I would pay extra to stay at work rather than spend a week there.

Paula G
Paula G
1 year ago

Yes, it is scary to help where people are dangerous. We need guards and police so there are safe places to invite people for help. Please, also, can rich criminal gangs stay away from ripping of goods meant to provide for poor people?

I wish people like Barack Obama, who was a community organizer to make a resume, could open his Rolodex now and find people to help fund guards to get students to school in Chicago. Charity changes when people become fat cats. He thinks a few souvenir sales jobs at his museum will pay back the city enough, though he will gain so much more through his museum. Tickle down
a few drops won’t change things. He should organize now he CAN. Same goes for the Meghan Harrys and so on.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Paula G

O’Bunmer is a driving force in destroying the West, and has no intention of doing anything but evil and never has had any such intention.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago
Reply to  Paula G

O’Bunmer is a driving force in destroying the West, and has no intention of doing anything but evil and never has had any such intention.

Paula G
Paula G
1 year ago

Yes, it is scary to help where people are dangerous. We need guards and police so there are safe places to invite people for help. Please, also, can rich criminal gangs stay away from ripping of goods meant to provide for poor people?

I wish people like Barack Obama, who was a community organizer to make a resume, could open his Rolodex now and find people to help fund guards to get students to school in Chicago. Charity changes when people become fat cats. He thinks a few souvenir sales jobs at his museum will pay back the city enough, though he will gain so much more through his museum. Tickle down
a few drops won’t change things. He should organize now he CAN. Same goes for the Meghan Harrys and so on.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

They were supposed to be saved by making gambling legal only in those zones, like in the U.S. Unfortunately Gordon Brown ended that and made it legal on every high street instead.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

It should be transformed into a giant immigrant holding centre, rather like the Isle of Man was during WWII.
After all it has the correct nomen, rains continually, and can easily be cut from both rail and road system.
The indigenous inhabitants should receive very generous compensation for ‘their’ sacrifice.

It would also be very convenient when ‘transporting ‘them, to Ireland rather than Rwanda.

After all in the 1840’s Ireland had a population of over 8.5 million before a little problem with the food supply. Now it is about 7 million (North & South) so there is plenty of space.

So the moribund Foreign Office should start ‘making a deal’. It should be “win win” for all concerned.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago

You are nearly displaced in Ireland and continuing your millennia of evil is dependent on weakening Ireland.
But nothing will send bombs signed P. O’Neill faster or more furiously than what you propose.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

We kind of managed in WW2 even with a neutral Ireland who were very pro Hitler, as De Valera showed.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  john O'Neal

We kind of managed in WW2 even with a neutral Ireland who were very pro Hitler, as De Valera showed.

john O'Neal
john O'Neal
1 year ago

You are nearly displaced in Ireland and continuing your millennia of evil is dependent on weakening Ireland.
But nothing will send bombs signed P. O’Neill faster or more furiously than what you propose.

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

That is fundamentally the problem. Cute villages in Cornwall even South Coast resorts will always have a pull. Blackpool and Skeggie? Less. Their economies need diversifying, including support a w/e tourist economy.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

You have a point.
I was in Blackpool a couple of years ago and I would pay extra to stay at work rather than spend a week there.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

They were supposed to be saved by making gambling legal only in those zones, like in the U.S. Unfortunately Gordon Brown ended that and made it legal on every high street instead.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

It should be transformed into a giant immigrant holding centre, rather like the Isle of Man was during WWII.
After all it has the correct nomen, rains continually, and can easily be cut from both rail and road system.
The indigenous inhabitants should receive very generous compensation for ‘their’ sacrifice.

It would also be very convenient when ‘transporting ‘them, to Ireland rather than Rwanda.

After all in the 1840’s Ireland had a population of over 8.5 million before a little problem with the food supply. Now it is about 7 million (North & South) so there is plenty of space.

So the moribund Foreign Office should start ‘making a deal’. It should be “win win” for all concerned.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago

Unless UK GOV is going to make Med vacations illegal what exactly is the solution for Blackpool?

Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
1 year ago

If Beveridge overlooked low pay, it must surely be because it did not result in people sleeping in the streets in 1945. This is a relatively new phenomenon. There is also a major aspect missing from this article related to UK seaside towns – the rush to the Spanish beaches. Think what all the money spent abroad could have done if spent here. Another reason for homelessness, especially with men, is the increasing breakdown of marriages with the men being kicked out onto the streets.

Last edited 1 year ago by Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
1 year ago

If Beveridge overlooked low pay, it must surely be because it did not result in people sleeping in the streets in 1945. This is a relatively new phenomenon. There is also a major aspect missing from this article related to UK seaside towns – the rush to the Spanish beaches. Think what all the money spent abroad could have done if spent here. Another reason for homelessness, especially with men, is the increasing breakdown of marriages with the men being kicked out onto the streets.

Last edited 1 year ago by Alan Thorpe
Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago

The big picture here is the power of geography to determine lives. 

No the big picture is the assumption that ‘poverty’ can be fixed by throwing piles of cash at it.
The ‘poor’ in these ares are suffering from a lack of ambition, a lack of any perceived opportunity for self improvement
We can fix the lack of money to buy food – we’ve been doing it for decades and its not fixed the poverty of achievement.
Governments need to free the population to be creative and to make their own successes – its no use just providing handouts – we need to provide opportunity & fulfilment
Granted there will always be a few who need handouts – and we should be charitable as a society towards them – but these are in the minority
There’s a old saying – Give a man a fish & you feed him for a day – teach a man to fish and you feed him for life – we can’t just keep on throwing fish at the poor.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

Geography; people forget that Glasgow used to be the richest town in Britain, and Liverpool was second. Blackpool was a great holiday place for the North.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

Geography; people forget that Glasgow used to be the richest town in Britain, and Liverpool was second. Blackpool was a great holiday place for the North.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago

The big picture here is the power of geography to determine lives. 

No the big picture is the assumption that ‘poverty’ can be fixed by throwing piles of cash at it.
The ‘poor’ in these ares are suffering from a lack of ambition, a lack of any perceived opportunity for self improvement
We can fix the lack of money to buy food – we’ve been doing it for decades and its not fixed the poverty of achievement.
Governments need to free the population to be creative and to make their own successes – its no use just providing handouts – we need to provide opportunity & fulfilment
Granted there will always be a few who need handouts – and we should be charitable as a society towards them – but these are in the minority
There’s a old saying – Give a man a fish & you feed him for a day – teach a man to fish and you feed him for life – we can’t just keep on throwing fish at the poor.

Andrew Dean
Andrew Dean
1 year ago

And 1.2m job vacancies in UK?

Benjamin D'Oveire
Benjamin D'Oveire
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Dean

Nail on head. The problem is our welfare system. Why work? No incentive, that’s why.

Laurence Siegel
Laurence Siegel
1 year ago

That’s basically what I said about the U.S. earlier, but there is also a profound skills mismatch. Most of the people who are on the dole are not the people you’d want working for you. You have to have relatively continuous employment to keep your skills up to date, especially social skills such as showing up, being roughly on time, dressing adequately, and staying sober until after work.

Laurence Siegel
Laurence Siegel
1 year ago

That’s basically what I said about the U.S. earlier, but there is also a profound skills mismatch. Most of the people who are on the dole are not the people you’d want working for you. You have to have relatively continuous employment to keep your skills up to date, especially social skills such as showing up, being roughly on time, dressing adequately, and staying sober until after work.

Benjamin D'Oveire
Benjamin D'Oveire
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Dean

Nail on head. The problem is our welfare system. Why work? No incentive, that’s why.

Andrew Dean
Andrew Dean
1 year ago

And 1.2m job vacancies in UK?

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

Once again the author of the article confuses British with English. The resorts in Wales are in a much better state and 10 million English people visit them every year.

Wales sees these annual influxes of English people as a major source of income. There is a move afoot to charge a surcharge/tax on every night spent in a hotel.

Ibn Sina
Ibn Sina
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Rhyl? Prestatyn?

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Ibn Sina

Years ago, I used to go with my parents to Blackpool, Prestatyn, Conwy, Morecombe. They were all terrible.

Today they are not different from other towns in the North and Midlands and I still wouldn’t go there for a holiday. But 10 million English people visit Wales every year. How do you explain that?

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris W
Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

The same way one explains why 15M English people visit Spain each year and 5M people (no doubt including some Welshmen and women) visit Cornwall. People like to go somewhere that’s different from home for their holiday.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Yes, and off course Wales has the most impressive corpus of English medieval castles, in fact unmatched anywhere in Europe!

What more stirring sight can there possibly be than Caernarvon ,Conway, Harlech, or Beaumaris lording themselves over the surrounding area? A visible reminder of the totality of the Edwardian Conquest.

Further south, English ‘robber barons’ intent on plunder & profit have also left us the magnificent remains of Kidwelly, Pembroke, Carreg Cennen, and Caerphilly and so many others to admire.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Yes, and off course Wales has the most impressive corpus of English medieval castles, in fact unmatched anywhere in Europe!

What more stirring sight can there possibly be than Caernarvon ,Conway, Harlech, or Beaumaris lording themselves over the surrounding area? A visible reminder of the totality of the Edwardian Conquest.

Further south, English ‘robber barons’ intent on plunder & profit have also left us the magnificent remains of Kidwelly, Pembroke, Carreg Cennen, and Caerphilly and so many others to admire.

Ibn Sina
Ibn Sina
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

I really can’t explain it.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

The same way one explains why 15M English people visit Spain each year and 5M people (no doubt including some Welshmen and women) visit Cornwall. People like to go somewhere that’s different from home for their holiday.

Ibn Sina
Ibn Sina
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

I really can’t explain it.

Zap Zenn
Zap Zenn
1 year ago
Reply to  Ibn Sina

My visit to the N Wales coast last year was very reassuring. I saw the green shoots of new growth everywhere from Talacre to Penmaenmawr.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Ibn Sina

Years ago, I used to go with my parents to Blackpool, Prestatyn, Conwy, Morecombe. They were all terrible.

Today they are not different from other towns in the North and Midlands and I still wouldn’t go there for a holiday. But 10 million English people visit Wales every year. How do you explain that?

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris W
Zap Zenn
Zap Zenn
1 year ago
Reply to  Ibn Sina

My visit to the N Wales coast last year was very reassuring. I saw the green shoots of new growth everywhere from Talacre to Penmaenmawr.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Well that makes a welcome change from burning’English’ holiday homes.
Even the the wretched Scotch didn’t stoop to that.

The Welsh like the Scotch should remember they are
“Dediticii” as the Romans would say, and should also recall whose ‘hand’
it is that feeds them.

Both frankly “take the biscuit “ for being incredibly ungrateful.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Kevin R
Kevin R
1 year ago

Really. You shouldn’t post when you’re drunk.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin R

I don’t think CS needs to be drunk to post in his inimitable manner, but he can be quite amusing, on occasion!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin R

It may come as a shock to you Kevin, but as an Englishman I know I have an inalienable right to say what I like, when I like, and to whom I like.
If you and your kind don’t like that
.tough!

Incidentally as you should be aware ( but probably aren’t) we have stringent libel laws in this country to protect people, quite correctly from slanderous accusations.

So back to the bogs with you!

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago

If you think you have the right to say what you like to whomever you like, you are fine as long as what you say does not ‘offend’ someone who decides to report it to the police as a hate crime. If the complainant happens to be one of the groups apparently protected by plod, then you will be in deep shit.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Precisely!
And why has this worthless government NOT repealed this pernicious legislation? They have had 7 long years to do something yet remain ossified with fear.
Such a bunch of bed-wetters are beneath contempt.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Precisely!
And why has this worthless government NOT repealed this pernicious legislation? They have had 7 long years to do something yet remain ossified with fear.
Such a bunch of bed-wetters are beneath contempt.

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

Of course you have a right to say what you like. It’s good because you show yourself up as a pompous arrogant d**k.

John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago

If you think you have the right to say what you like to whomever you like, you are fine as long as what you say does not ‘offend’ someone who decides to report it to the police as a hate crime. If the complainant happens to be one of the groups apparently protected by plod, then you will be in deep shit.

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

Of course you have a right to say what you like. It’s good because you show yourself up as a pompous arrogant d**k.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin R

I don’t think CS needs to be drunk to post in his inimitable manner, but he can be quite amusing, on occasion!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin R

It may come as a shock to you Kevin, but as an Englishman I know I have an inalienable right to say what I like, when I like, and to whom I like.
If you and your kind don’t like that
.tough!

Incidentally as you should be aware ( but probably aren’t) we have stringent libel laws in this country to protect people, quite correctly from slanderous accusations.

So back to the bogs with you!

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

Anything coming from the Greeks or Romans reeks of a man’s world where ‘real’ men had slaves and women almost didn’t exist. In such circumstances it is easy to hold meaningful conversations with other enlightened people while the slaves do all the work.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

I am sorry but that is a profoundly ignorant answer if I may so.

You should devote some to the study of the Classical World. I’m sure you will find it most rewarding.

Incidentally Wales is studded with interesting Roman sites:
Might I suggest Caerleon*, one the best preserved Legionary Fortress’s in the Roman Empire, and home to LEGIO II AUGUSTA, and nearby the well preserved Roman tribal capital-town of Caerwent (Venta Silurum.)

(* An unusual word that maybe a corruption of ‘castra legionis – camp of the Legion.)

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

The Ottoman Empire?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

I am sorry but that is a profoundly ignorant answer if I may so.

You should devote some to the study of the Classical World. I’m sure you will find it most rewarding.

Incidentally Wales is studded with interesting Roman sites:
Might I suggest Caerleon*, one the best preserved Legionary Fortress’s in the Roman Empire, and home to LEGIO II AUGUSTA, and nearby the well preserved Roman tribal capital-town of Caerwent (Venta Silurum.)

(* An unusual word that maybe a corruption of ‘castra legionis – camp of the Legion.)

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

The Ottoman Empire?

glyn harries
glyn harries
1 year ago

Thank you for increasing my belief that Wales needs out of the UK. ( Funny how Tory ‘British nationalists’ aka English nationalists are being so successful in breaking up the UK! 😀 )

Bill Tomlinson
Bill Tomlinson
1 year ago
Reply to  glyn harries

Bring it on!
As an English nationalist I don’t give a toss about Britain or the UK.
What I do care about is that we English should not be taxed to pay for the Barnet Formula, i.e. to subsidise Scotland, Wales and NI.

Never mind an independence referendum for Scotland – we need one for England.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Tomlinson

How is it that very clever people always forget that the Barnet Formula refers to England as well. Those in the cuddly, warm south are subsidising their cousins in Yorkshire and Lancashire in just the same way.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

It seems you’re not one of those clever people, Chris. The Barnett formula is explicitly about the block grants to Scotland, Wales and NI.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/barnett-formula

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Thank you for correcting Chris, he can sometimes, inadvertently get hold of “the wrong end of the feather duster”.