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Mermaids’ useful idiots Journalists, teachers and activists all defended Susie Green

Credit: Beata Zawrzel/NurPhoto/Getty


November 29, 2022   7 mins

It’s incredibly easy to criticise Susie Green, the influential and, as of Friday, ex-CEO of Mermaids. But I’d like to say this in her defence: she never lied about who she was.

From her early interviews in 2012, when her trans daughter, Jackie, then 19, became a Miss England finalist, Green, then an IT-manager, was utterly open about how she first knew her child was trans: “As a toddler, Jackie always headed for the dolls in toy shops.” And if a four-year-old looking at dolls weren’t evidence enough that this child should be committed to a lifetime of medicalisation, Green added, “[Jackie] loathed having her hair cut.” Green put Jack — as he was then known — on puberty-blockers and flew him to Thailand for a sex change operation when he was 16, making him the youngest person in the world to undergo that surgery.

She merrily recalls in a YouTube interview that because Jack’s penis hadn’t developed due to the blockers, “there wasn’t much for the surgeon to work with” when constructing their vagina. “Sorry, Jackie!” she laughs.

During her time at Mermaids, Green has been advising parents, schools, the police, the media and NHS trusts about how to deal with other children who dare to not be gender stereotypes. She was their first staff member — before Mermaids was run by volunteers — and under her leadership, she has transformed the organisation from a quiet, low-key charity to an energetically active lobbying group, and her theories about childhood and gender have been at least as influential as Judith Butler’s. Mermaids has been endorsed by the Be Kind brigade, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Jameela Jamil and Emma Watson, accrued a slew of corporate sponsors and been awarded £500,000 by the National Lottery. Progressive newspapers advise readers to contact the service should they have any concerns about their child.

Since 2017, I regularly asked editors at the newspaper where I worked if I could write about Mermaids in general and Green specifically, because it was so obvious that something was very wrong here. The answer, always, was no, but the reasons given were fuzzy: it wouldn’t be right in that section, they couldn’t see the news peg, it felt too niche. A more likely reason was one articulated to me with some passion on social media any time I tweeted anything sceptical about Green or Mermaids: to question either was to wish trans children would die. Doubt the charity, hate the cause, in other words. Weirdly, this attitude seems to hold true only for charities connected to trans issues: no one, as far as I know, screamed that The Times hates starving people when they investigated Oxfam in 2018 about allegations that some of its workers paid for sex.

I do have some sympathy with those who were too scared to question Mermaids. Under Green’s leadership, the organisation has done its utmost to evade scrutiny, trotting out — even in parliamentary committees, even in the 2018 ITV drama Butterfly, starring Anna Friel, and for which Green was the series lead consultant — the claim that 48% of young trans people attempt suicide. A terrifying statistic for any parent of a gender dysphoric child, and almost as scary for any organisation that cares more about being kind than being accurate. Happily, the statistic is bunkum, as the researcher behind the study it’s based on has said, because the study involved 27 self-selecting trans volunteers, and therefore its findings should not be widened out to all gender dysphoric young people, as Mermaids had done.

You would think that discovering attempted suicide is not as common among young gender dysphoric people as previously believed would be greeted with triumphant cheers and celebrations by a charity that claims to support them, and the celebrities who frequently tweet their love for the group routinely described as “the most oppressed people in the world”. And yet, strangely, not so much. As a result, that statistic is still routinely banded around by activists. (Is telling oppressed people that they are likely to try to kill themselves, despite the facts suggesting otherwise, really Being Kind?) It’s the same story with puberty blockers: for years, Green and Mermaids insisted they were fully reversable. Green had given them to her child, as she repeated so often, and she wouldn’t deliberately harm her own child, right? Online obsessives — such as one full-time tweeter, part-time lawyer and occasional fox murderer — parroted these claims, and people went along with the theory that a drug originally licensed to treat prostate cancer would be fine for children. In fact, it is now becoming widely accepted that blockers affect bone development, and may prevent the young person from ever being able to orgasm.

Despite telling Jackie’s story over and over, and always including the detail about the girls’ toys, Green took pains to stress that being trans child went deeper than a desire for dolls. But how else would a four-year-old boy express a wish to be a girl other than through the medium of toys? What else would being a girl mean to them? In her Tedx talk, Green says that as soon as her baby boy “got mobile” — ie, learned to crawl — “he was gravitating to things that you would think are stereotypically female”. Like what, tampons? Was her one-year-old trying to book an appointment for a cervical smear test? Nope, “the Polly Pocket and My Little Pony”, she says, and then quickly adds “that was fine – but not for Dad”. Green’s then husband disapproved of his son playing with My Little Pony toys and therefore banned them from the house. (A macho father who abhors effeminacy in his son is a common feature in the life stories of trans women; Paris Lees’ semi-autobiographical novel, What It Feels Like for a Girl, is a recent example.)

Shortly after that, the child then known as Jack told his mother, “God made a mistake and I should have been a girl.” As Green recounts in her talk, “What I had come to the conclusion, up until she was about two, was that I had a very sensitive, quite effeminate little boy who was probably gay.” So when four-year-old Jack told her he should be a girl, Green felt “it explained so many things”. And to be fair, a trans four-year-old makes about as much sense as a gay two-year-old. No one has ever accused Green of failing to maintain fidelity to her extraordinary version of logic.

Jackie Green has occasionally spoken up in defence of her mother. In 2018, a journalist tweeted that Green had “castrated” her teenage son when she arranged for the sex change operation in Thailand. Jackie tweeted back that this was untrue: “I was meant to be female and thus had surgery to correct my small defect,” was how she put it. As to how she knew she was meant to be a girl, Jackie said, “For a long time I was told I had to play with action men and other ‘boy toys’, another concept I find rather silly, but I still wanted the Barbies and little mermaids.” And so her mother arranged for the “small defect” to be “corrected” so she could.

No one has said why Green is suddenly no longer the CEO of Mermaids. But the fact that the charity has said they are appointing an interim one for now suggests the decision was quite sudden. The timing was certainly peculiar, coming 10 days after Green gave a rare interview, refuting all recent criticisms of her organisation.

Slowly, it seems, the tide is turning against Mermaids. When it was announced this year that the NHS was going shut down Gids, its gender identity clinic for children, in the spring, attention quickly turned to Mermaids. Former clinicians at Gids have accused the charity of having a “harmful” effect on the clinic by promoting transition as a cure. Mermaids has denied this, but it didn’t help matters by putting itself in the spotlight when it launched an appeal against the Charity Commission’s decision to award charitable status to the LGB Alliance, now the only specifically gay charity in this country which does not include trans people. Witnesses for Mermaids have had to defend gender theories under questioning this autumn, which has led to extraordinary moments such as Mermaids’ chair of trustees, claiming, “I’m not sure that people come out of the womb with a sex.”

A Daily Telegraph investigation in September found that the charity was offering to send breast binders to children against their parents’ wishes, which prompted the Charity Commission to open a regulatory compliance case. Green later defended Mermaids in The Guardian by saying a binder is better than “a young person using duct tape on themselves”. In October, the Times revealed that one of the Mermaids trustees, Jacob Breslow, gave a 2011 presentation for B4U-ACT, an organisation that aims to promote better understanding of paedophiles, in which he criticised the negative ideas about “paedophilic desire”. “We did some general top-level Google and internet searches. We did a social media search [and it] didn’t come up,” Green told The Guardian. Then, 10 days later, she was ousted.

Maybe the Mermaids board belatedly realised that if they want their organisation to endure, they needed to get rid of the wacky front woman. Ultimately, I don’t care why she went, because so much damage has already been done. But what I do want to know is this: how did so many people take Green so seriously for so long? Why did so many people turn off their intelligence when faced with this former IT consultant from Leeds? And how could so many LGBT activists champion and defend a woman who saw effeminacy — and therefore homosexuality — in her two-year-old and feel she had to “correct” this “defect”?

Green kept telling the story of Jackie because, for a long time, it gave her moral authority. No doubt, parents have long been great advocates for the rights of their marginalised children. But an alternative way of looking at Green is she was at least as good an advocate for her own rights: the right to put her child on untested hormone pills, the right to take her child to Thailand for a sex change. There is a fine line between using your parenting experience to help others, and validating your parenting choices by encouraging others to do the same.

I’m not waiting for celebrities such as Emma Watson to own up to their foolishness, mainly because I don’t care what Emma Watson thinks about anything. But all the journalists, teachers, editors and activists who endorsed Green’s obviously ludicrous ideas and shouted down anyone who didn’t, they really need to take a long look at their judgement, their motives and themselves. Because Green never once hid who she was.


Hadley Freeman is a staff writer at The Sunday Times. Her latest book, Good Girls: A Story and Study of Anorexia, was published in 2023.

HadleyFreeman

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Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

“Because Green never once hid who she was.” – I had a friend recently go on tear about child abuse in the Catholic Church and how awful it was that our parents generation didn’t stop it. My response was that the abuse was 1) hidden and 2) denied. I then pointed out that our generation is not only tolerating child abuse that is publicly acknowledged and right out in the open – many – maybe most – of our generation are openly celebrating it. Medically transitioning children is simply evil. Everyone knows this – yet many champion it anyways.

Max Price
Max Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Yep, and as we all know a large portion of the kids who get caught up in this insanity are gay. It’s homophobic to its core. How progressives unquestioningly support it staggers me.

Daoud Fakhri
Daoud Fakhri
1 year ago
Reply to  Max Price

Because being gay is now passé. Trans is where it’s at. Just think of the Alison Bailey case: just a few years ago she would have been unassailable, siting at the intersection of three ‘oppressed’ groups – woman, lesbian, and black. But those were all trumped by trans, hence the discrimination she faced at her place of work.

James Joyce
James Joyce
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

It also emboldened the privileged, expensively educated journalistic mediocrity that is Zoe Williams to righteously chastise an articulate and principled Nigerian female survivor of abuse for her concern about women’s safe spaces. “I’m not having that!” said the bold Ms Williams.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  James Joyce

Am I the only one to find this quote (not that easy) and realise that it is taken completely out of context. She is absolutely not chastising the Nigerian lady for concern, she is pointing out that her generalisation that ALL women have the concerns that she has is totally wrong, which it obviously is. Read for yourselves: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/nov/28/chimamanda-ngozi-adichie-bbc-reith-lecture-freedom-truth-trans-rights

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  James Joyce

Next time the Nazis turn up they won’t be blokes in Hugo Boss designer uniforms…(to paraphrase Churchill or Orwell or whoever). Nowadays we know what they will look like; Ever so nice, furrowed brow narcissists with permanently slightly hurt expressions.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  James Joyce

Am I the only one to find this quote (not that easy) and realise that it is taken completely out of context. She is absolutely not chastising the Nigerian lady for concern, she is pointing out that her generalisation that ALL women have the concerns that she has is totally wrong, which it obviously is. Read for yourselves: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/nov/28/chimamanda-ngozi-adichie-bbc-reith-lecture-freedom-truth-trans-rights

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  James Joyce

Next time the Nazis turn up they won’t be blokes in Hugo Boss designer uniforms…(to paraphrase Churchill or Orwell or whoever). Nowadays we know what they will look like; Ever so nice, furrowed brow narcissists with permanently slightly hurt expressions.

Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

I could look forward to the passing of trans as the Current Big Thing, if I didn’t fear the coming of the Next Big Thing. What monster is now waiting in the wings for its introduction?

Daoud Fakhri
Daoud Fakhri
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

The destigmatising of ‘minor attracted people’ is one possible contender.

Andrew Stoll
Andrew Stoll
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

That was actually once supported by the German Greens Party but probably didn’t get them too many votes..
“Germany’s Greens, Europe’s most influential environmentalist party, have been obliged to open a detailed investigation into past policy and practice amid revelations that in the 1980s, its members actively supported paedophile groups which campaigned to legalise sex with children”
(The ‘Independend’ 18 May 2013)

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Stoll

Advocating for simple, plain old homosexuality was also fringe at one time.

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Still is in , probably, in most of the world.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted Ditchburn

funnily enough, its not… still illegal if you do your research?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted Ditchburn

funnily enough, its not… still illegal if you do your research?

Martin Johnson
Martin Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Your point?

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Still is in , probably, in most of the world.

Martin Johnson
Martin Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Your point?

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Stoll

Advocating for simple, plain old homosexuality was also fringe at one time.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

It was supported by the Labour Party 4 decades ago

Nick Bernard
Nick Bernard
1 year ago

Hi Ethniciodo, please could you provide a link that supports your claim? Many thanks

Nick Bernard
Nick Bernard
1 year ago

Hi Ethniciodo, please could you provide a link that supports your claim? Many thanks

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

Heaven forbid, but I fear you are correct.

Steve Jerome
Steve Jerome
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

I think that one has been and gone. The Paedophile Information exchange is now the object of ridicule and horror.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jerome

It appears to have been rebranded as Mermaids.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jerome

It appears to have been rebranded as Mermaids.

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

That’s out there amongst wokey marxist types who never forgot that to undermine the state you have to undermine the family.

Andrew Stoll
Andrew Stoll
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

That was actually once supported by the German Greens Party but probably didn’t get them too many votes..
“Germany’s Greens, Europe’s most influential environmentalist party, have been obliged to open a detailed investigation into past policy and practice amid revelations that in the 1980s, its members actively supported paedophile groups which campaigned to legalise sex with children”
(The ‘Independend’ 18 May 2013)

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

It was supported by the Labour Party 4 decades ago

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

Heaven forbid, but I fear you are correct.

Steve Jerome
Steve Jerome
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

I think that one has been and gone. The Paedophile Information exchange is now the object of ridicule and horror.

Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

That’s out there amongst wokey marxist types who never forgot that to undermine the state you have to undermine the family.

M mtski@hotmail.com
M mtski@hotmail.com
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

It’s useful to scrutinize the rave critical reviews of the ‘brilliant’ (WaPo) play “Downstate”, which pleads for sympathy for convicted sex criminals, including a child molester.
The Observer likens their cruel & unusual oppression – the regulation of where offenders can reside and the regular checking of their ankle monitors – to the lynching of innocent black men in US history.
There seems to be an attempt to normalize the most basic, fundamental societal taboos. Cultural Marxists understand this trend quite well…
It would seem unthinkable that anyone might try to soften our disgust at the idea of cannibalism, but…Welcome to 2022.

Bernard Hill
Bernard Hill
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

…youth in asia, for those who don’t listen to the experts.

Graham Bennett
Graham Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

What’s coming next? This book out early next year might give you some clues: https://www.dukeupress.edu/circuits-of-the-sacred
Brace yourselves!

Jill Corel
Jill Corel
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Bennett

The cover of that book is enough to put you off. God help us.

Jill Corel
Jill Corel
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Bennett

The cover of that book is enough to put you off. God help us.

Richard Parker
Richard Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

“And what rough beast, its hour come round at last…” Seems like we’re stuck on historical repeat again. Horrid thought though.

Daniel P
Daniel P
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

Sex with children….that is the next boundary they want to cross.
You are seeing all the hints of it already. Academics publishing that pedophiles require “understanding”.
Ads for clothing and other items.
THAT is the next thing. Should scare the crap out of you.

Martin Johnson
Martin Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

Pedophilia is next, it has already begun.
After that will be either bestiality or necrophilia, they are already practicing their lines.
Tho, snuff could make a big comeback, esp as euthanasia is being normalized.

Last edited 1 year ago by Martin Johnson
Daoud Fakhri
Daoud Fakhri
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

The destigmatising of ‘minor attracted people’ is one possible contender.

M mtski@hotmail.com
M mtski@hotmail.com
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

It’s useful to scrutinize the rave critical reviews of the ‘brilliant’ (WaPo) play “Downstate”, which pleads for sympathy for convicted sex criminals, including a child molester.
The Observer likens their cruel & unusual oppression – the regulation of where offenders can reside and the regular checking of their ankle monitors – to the lynching of innocent black men in US history.
There seems to be an attempt to normalize the most basic, fundamental societal taboos. Cultural Marxists understand this trend quite well…
It would seem unthinkable that anyone might try to soften our disgust at the idea of cannibalism, but…Welcome to 2022.

Bernard Hill
Bernard Hill
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

…youth in asia, for those who don’t listen to the experts.

Graham Bennett
Graham Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

What’s coming next? This book out early next year might give you some clues: https://www.dukeupress.edu/circuits-of-the-sacred
Brace yourselves!

Richard Parker
Richard Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

“And what rough beast, its hour come round at last…” Seems like we’re stuck on historical repeat again. Horrid thought though.

Daniel P
Daniel P
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

Sex with children….that is the next boundary they want to cross.
You are seeing all the hints of it already. Academics publishing that pedophiles require “understanding”.
Ads for clothing and other items.
THAT is the next thing. Should scare the crap out of you.

Martin Johnson
Martin Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

Pedophilia is next, it has already begun.
After that will be either bestiality or necrophilia, they are already practicing their lines.
Tho, snuff could make a big comeback, esp as euthanasia is being normalized.

Last edited 1 year ago by Martin Johnson
Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

The more this insanity evolves, the more I am convinced that we are victims of a cruel media loop strategy, which has become an industry in and of itself. Someone starts a completely insane idea/movement, organizes it and morphs a non-profit organization, employing many rubes, it is then catapulted into the mainstream by the willing media, who sees the potential click bait, fans the flames with vicious attacks on any dissenters, then it comes full circle with an entire cohort of willing participants decrying the insanity of the original movement. I’m hereby jumping off this modern day, dystopian, cyber merry-go-round.

Last edited 1 year ago by Warren Trees
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

I am planning to become both, as to save tiresome expensive dinners and dates, I can stay at home and have sex with myself AND go outside for a cigarette afterwards and not have to moan at myself, or then get myself a taxi home.

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
1 year ago

Won’t you miss the morning ‘walk of shame’?

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
1 year ago

Won’t you miss the morning ‘walk of shame’?

James Joyce
James Joyce
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

It also emboldened the privileged, expensively educated journalistic mediocrity that is Zoe Williams to righteously chastise an articulate and principled Nigerian female survivor of abuse for her concern about women’s safe spaces. “I’m not having that!” said the bold Ms Williams.

Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

I could look forward to the passing of trans as the Current Big Thing, if I didn’t fear the coming of the Next Big Thing. What monster is now waiting in the wings for its introduction?

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

The more this insanity evolves, the more I am convinced that we are victims of a cruel media loop strategy, which has become an industry in and of itself. Someone starts a completely insane idea/movement, organizes it and morphs a non-profit organization, employing many rubes, it is then catapulted into the mainstream by the willing media, who sees the potential click bait, fans the flames with vicious attacks on any dissenters, then it comes full circle with an entire cohort of willing participants decrying the insanity of the original movement. I’m hereby jumping off this modern day, dystopian, cyber merry-go-round.

Last edited 1 year ago by Warren Trees
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Daoud Fakhri

I am planning to become both, as to save tiresome expensive dinners and dates, I can stay at home and have sex with myself AND go outside for a cigarette afterwards and not have to moan at myself, or then get myself a taxi home.

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Max Price

Yes. If gender roles are purely socially constructed then there’s no link between them and physical sex. There can be no right or wrong body. If on the other hand playing with dolls makes a ‘girl’ and with cars a ‘boy’, then gender roles are immutable and from nature. Of course the truth is nuanced, but in the trans ‘debate’ today there is no nuance, so which is it? Relative or absolute? Or just each by turns as suits the ideological subversion of human relations and individual identity as we descend into nonsense?

Alex Tickell
Alex Tickell
1 year ago
Reply to  Max Price

Both homosexuality and the wish to transition are quite serious psychological disorders and the fact that one of these disorders has been accepted by a large portion of the population as “normal” does not alter the fact.
The incessant warfare between the two is worrying, as neither seem to have much to gain from victory
Homosexuality which was illegal in my youth, has now been widely accepted, but people who practise it are afraid that the general hetero public lump it together with the even more questionable transitionism and begin to re-examine both.
Fear drives this battle, but we should be examining our values and their effect on our children.

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Tickell

Homosexuality was not illegal, sodomy was.

Alex Tickell
Alex Tickell
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Phillips

I’m sure I remember reading of many homosexuals who were arrested and fined for soliciting.
Promiscuity appears to be an intrinsic part of the behaviour, which also seems to have links to addiction.

Alex Tickell
Alex Tickell
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Phillips

I’m sure I remember reading of many homosexuals who were arrested and fined for soliciting.
Promiscuity appears to be an intrinsic part of the behaviour, which also seems to have links to addiction.

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Tickell

Homosexuality was not illegal, sodomy was.

Daoud Fakhri
Daoud Fakhri
1 year ago
Reply to  Max Price

Because being gay is now passé. Trans is where it’s at. Just think of the Alison Bailey case: just a few years ago she would have been unassailable, siting at the intersection of three ‘oppressed’ groups – woman, lesbian, and black. But those were all trumped by trans, hence the discrimination she faced at her place of work.

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Max Price

Yes. If gender roles are purely socially constructed then there’s no link between them and physical sex. There can be no right or wrong body. If on the other hand playing with dolls makes a ‘girl’ and with cars a ‘boy’, then gender roles are immutable and from nature. Of course the truth is nuanced, but in the trans ‘debate’ today there is no nuance, so which is it? Relative or absolute? Or just each by turns as suits the ideological subversion of human relations and individual identity as we descend into nonsense?

Alex Tickell
Alex Tickell
1 year ago
Reply to  Max Price

Both homosexuality and the wish to transition are quite serious psychological disorders and the fact that one of these disorders has been accepted by a large portion of the population as “normal” does not alter the fact.
The incessant warfare between the two is worrying, as neither seem to have much to gain from victory
Homosexuality which was illegal in my youth, has now been widely accepted, but people who practise it are afraid that the general hetero public lump it together with the even more questionable transitionism and begin to re-examine both.
Fear drives this battle, but we should be examining our values and their effect on our children.

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Why, do you think? How could it happen in the open, as you say? If it’s the MSM, then why? If it’s social media, then why? How could a generation fail to understand what’s wrong and right?
This is an afterthought; what does this generation want?

Last edited 1 year ago by Brett H
Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

What does this generation want? In the immortal word of Samuel Gompers, nineteenth-century labor leader, “More.”

Jane Tomlinson
Jane Tomlinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

A generation didn’t fail in knowing right from wrong. They looked but they didn’t see. The way my family looked but didn’t see what my oldest brother was doing to me. Because abuse is that thing that always, always happens to others. We all need to slow down, look more closely, and not be afraid to ask the questions we don’t really want answers to.

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Tomlinson

“A generation didn’t fail in knowing right from wrong. They looked but they didn’t see.”
That is not quite true in relation to P Johnson’s comment. What happened to you was confined to family and kept that way. How much closer do we need to look to witness what is being publicly displayed, and not only that but approved of and supported publicly? So a generation has actually given approval for these acts against children. Why?

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Tomlinson

“A generation didn’t fail in knowing right from wrong. They looked but they didn’t see.”
That is not quite true in relation to P Johnson’s comment. What happened to you was confined to family and kept that way. How much closer do we need to look to witness what is being publicly displayed, and not only that but approved of and supported publicly? So a generation has actually given approval for these acts against children. Why?

Bruce Luffman
Bruce Luffman
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

Might I humbly suggest that we have lost the habit of Christian belief or am I being too naive?

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Luffman

I’m not sure about that. The people who support these extremes seem to think in a very moralistic way. It seems simple enough to them; this is good, that is wrong. Things are viewed as either black or white. That’s a very primitive and uneducated way of viewing the world, but also very similar to the superstitious way the church, in the past, has controlled its members, and those who were not. They’re like a mob, caught up in the excitement of chasing devils and heretics, conferring with the relics of saints and the bleeding virgin, receiving the answers they want.

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Luffman

I’m not sure about that. The people who support these extremes seem to think in a very moralistic way. It seems simple enough to them; this is good, that is wrong. Things are viewed as either black or white. That’s a very primitive and uneducated way of viewing the world, but also very similar to the superstitious way the church, in the past, has controlled its members, and those who were not. They’re like a mob, caught up in the excitement of chasing devils and heretics, conferring with the relics of saints and the bleeding virgin, receiving the answers they want.

Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

What does this generation want? In the immortal word of Samuel Gompers, nineteenth-century labor leader, “More.”

Jane Tomlinson
Jane Tomlinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

A generation didn’t fail in knowing right from wrong. They looked but they didn’t see. The way my family looked but didn’t see what my oldest brother was doing to me. Because abuse is that thing that always, always happens to others. We all need to slow down, look more closely, and not be afraid to ask the questions we don’t really want answers to.

Bruce Luffman
Bruce Luffman
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

Might I humbly suggest that we have lost the habit of Christian belief or am I being too naive?

Steve Elliott
Steve Elliott
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Yes, Green had her son castrated and sterilized. I’d count that as abuse. At 16 did he really understand the consequences?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Elliott

Why has this Green person NOT been charged with inflicting Grievous Bodily Harm (GBH) may I ask?

Is not FGM illegal? Then why not MGM?

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

We could start a crowd funding page to fund a private prosecution

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

Before we do that, please understand that my daughter accused me of the heinous crime of raising her as a Christian during her childhood. She “discovered” at college that she had been lied to all along and was seriously upset with me for years. It might not be long that I, too, will be someone worth prosecuting. And to think that I paid for 4 years of this “education”.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

Before we do that, please understand that my daughter accused me of the heinous crime of raising her as a Christian during her childhood. She “discovered” at college that she had been lied to all along and was seriously upset with me for years. It might not be long that I, too, will be someone worth prosecuting. And to think that I paid for 4 years of this “education”.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

We could start a crowd funding page to fund a private prosecution

Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Elliott

More than that, did he really have the agency to accept or reject? It sounds like momma had him thoroughly programmed.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

I recall a news article a few years back about a young man who was raised as a girl by his mother who wanted a daughter. The truth of his sex wasn’t revealed to him and society until he was around 8-9 years of age. Mother was sectioned, young man put into care and then received years and years of counselling to help him come to terms with not being female and mother being nuts. I suspect there is going to many more instances like this to come.

Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Great illustration.

Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Great illustration.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

I recall a news article a few years back about a young man who was raised as a girl by his mother who wanted a daughter. The truth of his sex wasn’t revealed to him and society until he was around 8-9 years of age. Mother was sectioned, young man put into care and then received years and years of counselling to help him come to terms with not being female and mother being nuts. I suspect there is going to many more instances like this to come.

Graham Bennett
Graham Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Elliott

We’re told by the woke Left that, yes, of course he knew what he was doing! But, then again, no, he possibly couldn’t – hence their defence of Shamima Begum. So, when it suits their politics, the woke Left ‘inform’ us that minors know exactly what they’re doing; when it doesn’t, they obviously don’t. Discombobulating Marxist theory rides again! Go figure, as our American friends would say.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Elliott

Why has this Green person NOT been charged with inflicting Grievous Bodily Harm (GBH) may I ask?

Is not FGM illegal? Then why not MGM?

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Elliott

More than that, did he really have the agency to accept or reject? It sounds like momma had him thoroughly programmed.

Graham Bennett
Graham Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Elliott

We’re told by the woke Left that, yes, of course he knew what he was doing! But, then again, no, he possibly couldn’t – hence their defence of Shamima Begum. So, when it suits their politics, the woke Left ‘inform’ us that minors know exactly what they’re doing; when it doesn’t, they obviously don’t. Discombobulating Marxist theory rides again! Go figure, as our American friends would say.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Although separate cases the Savile story also involved hidden abuse, denial, and the reluctance of those in authority to challenge a celebrity narrative.
There’s a theme here – how many people strive to build fame and celebrity to hide their failings from others (including themselves).

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

The virtue hides the sin… as they say

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

The virtue hides the sin… as they say

Lennon Ó Náraigh
Lennon Ó Náraigh
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

The abuse in the Catholic Church was hidden in plain sight. Same as Jimmy Savile. And now, the same as Mermaids and this whole child-mutilation scandal.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago

Not everyone in the Catholic Church is a child abuser, however everyone who worked for Mermaids is involved in enabling child abuse because that is the only point of Mermaids.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Thanks for making this necessary distinction.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Thanks for making this necessary distinction.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

It was furtive and there was a disconnect between what they preached and what they practised. The trans ideologues are open about what they do.

Lennon Ó Náraigh
Lennon Ó Náraigh
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Yes, but everyone knew… but they were afraid to say anything. Same with “Mermaids” and the like.. hiding in plain sight, but people afraid to say anything in case they got cancelled / fired. A chilling effect. Case in point is the author of this piece, who was hounded out of “The Guardian”.

Really, there is an inner logic to this kind of scandal. In the beginning phase, the institution / individual is strong, it’s socially advantageous to turn a blind eye. Cracks in the alibi start to appear, but there are pile-ons, lest the society’s self-belief is harmed. Scapegoats are found. But still the allegations continue. In “alternative” media first. Eventually, a prime-time documentary. Then plink, plink, plink, and the avalanche happens. Court cases. Inquiries. A state apology. The end-point of it all is that it becomes socially advantageous to castigate the institution / individual that did the abuse.

With the Catholic church we have come to the end of the process. With the mutilation of children caught up in the gender cult, it looks like we are about half-way through.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lennon Ó Náraigh
Lennon Ó Náraigh
Lennon Ó Náraigh
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Yes, but everyone knew… but they were afraid to say anything. Same with “Mermaids” and the like.. hiding in plain sight, but people afraid to say anything in case they got cancelled / fired. A chilling effect. Case in point is the author of this piece, who was hounded out of “The Guardian”.

Really, there is an inner logic to this kind of scandal. In the beginning phase, the institution / individual is strong, it’s socially advantageous to turn a blind eye. Cracks in the alibi start to appear, but there are pile-ons, lest the society’s self-belief is harmed. Scapegoats are found. But still the allegations continue. In “alternative” media first. Eventually, a prime-time documentary. Then plink, plink, plink, and the avalanche happens. Court cases. Inquiries. A state apology. The end-point of it all is that it becomes socially advantageous to castigate the institution / individual that did the abuse.

With the Catholic church we have come to the end of the process. With the mutilation of children caught up in the gender cult, it looks like we are about half-way through.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lennon Ó Náraigh
D Walsh
D Walsh
1 year ago

Rule by homosexuals will be as successful for us, as it has been for the Catholic Church

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago

Not everyone in the Catholic Church is a child abuser, however everyone who worked for Mermaids is involved in enabling child abuse because that is the only point of Mermaids.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

It was furtive and there was a disconnect between what they preached and what they practised. The trans ideologues are open about what they do.

D Walsh
D Walsh
1 year ago

Rule by homosexuals will be as successful for us, as it has been for the Catholic Church

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Sorry, I’m piggy backing on another comment again, but I have a question for others on this site – does anyone else find that they can reply to someone’s comment, but cannot add comments? This has been happening frequently to me recently, and to say that it is annoying is an understatement.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago

Yes, and I see the problem on some articles and not others – I think there’s a bug in the web page code 🙂
Be good to have it fixed

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Yes, all the time!

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
1 year ago

Yes! Same for me. I’ve been in contact with the Unherd Help section and they claim to be working on it but offer no explanation of why it’s happening.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

Yes. It very unfair to the commenter on whose back we have to piggy, but there is no other way in. We pay to comment, so UnHerd owes it to subscribers to fix this immediately.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

I agree Allison. At least half the attraction of UnHerd is the comments section. If I can’t respond to an article or someone else’s comment because of a technical bug, I feel very short changed.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

The commenters are all very intelligent on this site. Even when I don’t agree with them, I want and appreciate their opinion. No trolls, no bomb throwers, no personal invective – just well-considered argument. Well-worth the subscription price, so get it together, UnHerd!

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

The commenters are all very intelligent on this site. Even when I don’t agree with them, I want and appreciate their opinion. No trolls, no bomb throwers, no personal invective – just well-considered argument. Well-worth the subscription price, so get it together, UnHerd!

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

I agree Allison. At least half the attraction of UnHerd is the comments section. If I can’t respond to an article or someone else’s comment because of a technical bug, I feel very short changed.

Roger Inkpen
Roger Inkpen
1 year ago

This happened to me a few months ago. Contact support@unherd.com

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

Yes – happens all the time

Claire D
Claire D
1 year ago

Yes, same problem, I contacted UnHerd and was advised to refresh the page, which works.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
1 year ago
Reply to  Claire D

It does not work for me, though

Claire D
Claire D
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Oh, sorry to hear that. It is very trying.

Claire D
Claire D
1 year ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Oh, sorry to hear that. It is very trying.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
1 year ago
Reply to  Claire D

It does not work for me, though

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago

Yes, and I see the problem on some articles and not others – I think there’s a bug in the web page code 🙂
Be good to have it fixed

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Yes, all the time!

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
1 year ago

Yes! Same for me. I’ve been in contact with the Unherd Help section and they claim to be working on it but offer no explanation of why it’s happening.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

Yes. It very unfair to the commenter on whose back we have to piggy, but there is no other way in. We pay to comment, so UnHerd owes it to subscribers to fix this immediately.

Roger Inkpen
Roger Inkpen
1 year ago

This happened to me a few months ago. Contact support@unherd.com

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

Yes – happens all the time

Claire D
Claire D
1 year ago

Yes, same problem, I contacted UnHerd and was advised to refresh the page, which works.

James Joyce
James Joyce
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

There’s a clear tell re Freeman’s suspicion that Green’s interest is in her own rights to subject her child to hormones and surgery: her aside about his p***s – “Sorry, Jackie!”.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  James Joyce

Poor Jack! Given that he was doomed to a micro p****s by his mother, he was only left with the choice of seeing though the transformation instigated by his selfish mother. No wonder there are concerns of suicidal tendencies amongst the trans community. Surely it’s only going to grow as young people come to terms with what is being done to them and that so many in society are celebrating it!

Vincent Egan
Vincent Egan
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Most chaps have growers or show-ers.

Last edited 1 year ago by Vincent Egan
Vincent Egan
Vincent Egan
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Most chaps have growers or show-ers.

Last edited 1 year ago by Vincent Egan
Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  James Joyce

Poor Jack! Given that he was doomed to a micro p****s by his mother, he was only left with the choice of seeing though the transformation instigated by his selfish mother. No wonder there are concerns of suicidal tendencies amongst the trans community. Surely it’s only going to grow as young people come to terms with what is being done to them and that so many in society are celebrating it!

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

“. . . constructing their vagina”. This author buys into the absurd misuse of the correct, accurate pronoun “his”. Jack, despite mother-approved medical mutilation, was a boy. The singular surgeon was also he or she. If it’s incredibly easy to criticize Susie Green, it’s necessary to dismiss writers who mangle language in the same way.

Last edited 1 year ago by Allison Barrows
Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

The author is part of the media loop that is being foisted upon us.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

UnHerd should change their style guide to always refer to sex-change cases by their original pronouns.

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Martin Smith
Martin Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

‘Its style…’? Unherd is singular.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

A couple of years ago I complained to Unherd about a couple of instances of the woke racist capitalisation of “black”. To their credit, Unherd explicitly undertook to desist from this practice, and have kept their word.

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

‘Its style…’? Unherd is singular.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

A couple of years ago I complained to Unherd about a couple of instances of the woke racist capitalisation of “black”. To their credit, Unherd explicitly undertook to desist from this practice, and have kept their word.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

UnHerd should change their style guide to always refer to sex-change cases by their original pronouns.

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago

“Jack, despite mother-approved medical mutilation, was a boy.”
He still is.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

The author is part of the media loop that is being foisted upon us.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago

“Jack, despite mother-approved medical mutilation, was a boy.”
He still is.

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

What is the equivalent term to “misogyny” that would capture the deep hatred of everything male and masculine that seems to be present in some of these my-little-boy-wants-to-be-castrated mothers?

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

Misandry?

Larry Jay
Larry Jay
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

The word you are thinking of is misandry.
As a general comment about Hadley Freeman’s article, the newspaper that was censoring her is The Guardian. All this has happened under Katharine Viner’s editorship. So much for “Comment is free, but facts are sacred” (C. P. Scott).

D Walsh
D Walsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

It always seems to be the mothers pushing the trans madness, fathers don’t seem to be as enthusiastic

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

So, of course, Smaltime J describes attempts to push back against the madness as the definition of the patriarchy. It’s a woman’s right to persuade her son to castrate himself.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

Hmmm. Perhaps the entire written history of mankind had something after all?

Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Sounds exactly like Nazi anti-Semitism, transferred to gender.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Sounds exactly like Nazi anti-Semitism, transferred to gender.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

Very interesting point.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

So, of course, Smaltime J describes attempts to push back against the madness as the definition of the patriarchy. It’s a woman’s right to persuade her son to castrate himself.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

Hmmm. Perhaps the entire written history of mankind had something after all?

Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

Very interesting point.

T. Lister
T. Lister
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

The term in this case is homophobia. A young boy who was not ‘male’ or ‘masculine’ enough, one who didn’t fit society’s ridiculous male stereotype. Someone recently asked me when did all of this homophobia come back again? My response was that it never left, it has been here all along.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  T. Lister

Quite right. Humankind has been aware of this defect for eons. It’s only been about the last 30 years that the concept of “homosexual rights” has been promulgated.

Guglielmo Marinaro
Guglielmo Marinaro
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Strictly speaking, there are no such things as homosexual rights – or as heterosexual rights either, for that matter. The phrase “homosexual rights” or “gay rights” is simply a piece of verbal shorthand, used to indicate that ordinary human rights, which are a matter of natural justice, apply to homosexuals just as they do to everyone else, and are not a privilege reserved to the heterosexual majority.

Guglielmo Marinaro
Guglielmo Marinaro
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Strictly speaking, there are no such things as homosexual rights – or as heterosexual rights either, for that matter. The phrase “homosexual rights” or “gay rights” is simply a piece of verbal shorthand, used to indicate that ordinary human rights, which are a matter of natural justice, apply to homosexuals just as they do to everyone else, and are not a privilege reserved to the heterosexual majority.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  T. Lister

homophobia is a non word that means fear of single

Guglielmo Marinaro
Guglielmo Marinaro
1 year ago

The word “homophobia” is philologically unsound – and its root meaning is not “fear of single” but “fear of the same” – but the phenomenon which it was coined to denote is only too real, although it is thankfully becoming ever less common.

Guglielmo Marinaro
Guglielmo Marinaro
1 year ago

The word “homophobia” is philologically unsound – and its root meaning is not “fear of single” but “fear of the same” – but the phenomenon which it was coined to denote is only too real, although it is thankfully becoming ever less common.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  T. Lister

Quite right. Humankind has been aware of this defect for eons. It’s only been about the last 30 years that the concept of “homosexual rights” has been promulgated.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  T. Lister

homophobia is a non word that means fear of single

Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

And given that culturally men are being taught to despise themselves, is this having an impact?

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

Misandry?

Larry Jay
Larry Jay
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

The word you are thinking of is misandry.
As a general comment about Hadley Freeman’s article, the newspaper that was censoring her is The Guardian. All this has happened under Katharine Viner’s editorship. So much for “Comment is free, but facts are sacred” (C. P. Scott).

D Walsh
D Walsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

It always seems to be the mothers pushing the trans madness, fathers don’t seem to be as enthusiastic

T. Lister
T. Lister
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

The term in this case is homophobia. A young boy who was not ‘male’ or ‘masculine’ enough, one who didn’t fit society’s ridiculous male stereotype. Someone recently asked me when did all of this homophobia come back again? My response was that it never left, it has been here all along.

Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

And given that culturally men are being taught to despise themselves, is this having an impact?

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Hear hear

jonathan carter-meggs
jonathan carter-meggs
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Anyone advocating interfering in the sexual development of a child is by definition a pervert.