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Why third jabs are inevitable The variants are going to keep on circulating without another vaccine

The Delta variant was a warning shot; we can't yet spare any vaccines. Credit: Amarjeet Kumar Singh/Anadolu Agency via Getty

The Delta variant was a warning shot; we can't yet spare any vaccines. Credit: Amarjeet Kumar Singh/Anadolu Agency via Getty


June 15, 2021   7 mins

I am in uncharted waters. Next week, it will be one year since I had my first jab; I got my second in August 2020. I was on the AstraZeneca trial – I still am, until the end of this month – so I got vaccinated before it was cool. There’s almost no data on whether people who had the vaccine a year ago are still protected, for the simple reason that almost nobody had had the vaccine a year ago.

And the existing vaccines were designed to mimic the original strain of Covid. We’ve been broadly lucky so far – the vaccines all still work against the variants we’re aware of. But they work less well against the new Delta variant; a Lancet paper last month found that people who had had the Pfizer vaccine had a reduced immune response to the new variant, and a recent Public Health England report says that a single dose of either Pfizer or AstraZeneca only reduces the likelihood of infection by about 33%. 

I don’t want to be too downhearted. It is worth remembering that even though we don’t have data from this vaccine, on the whole the immune system has an excellent memory, and vaccine protection usually lasts for years. And a double dose of either vaccine is much more effective, even against Delta: PHE says 60% in the AZ case, 88% with Pfizer. And they are much more protective than those headline figures against severe disease and death: another PHE paper finds that people who have had both jabs, of either vaccine, are more than 90% less likely to end up in hospital.

But Delta is a warning shot. We might well see a new variant – I was going to say Epsilon, but apparently we’re already up to Kappa – which escapes the vaccines even more effectively.

That’s why we need to start talking about third jabs.

If we want to maintain the freedoms we currently have, and certainly if we ever want to get rid of the disease, we are going to have to have a third innoculation. “The virus is very likely to remain endemic, for the next year at least,” says Dr Rupert Beale of the Crick Institute. Even with everyone double-jabbed, Delta is transmissible enough and vaccine-resistant enough to keep circulating. 

The latest SPI-M-O modelling suggests that it has an R0 of seven. (R0 is the number of people the average infected person spreads the disease to, in a population that has no immunity and no countermeasures against the disease.) If that’s true, then somewhere around 85% of people would need to be fully immune to reach herd immunity. With two jabs in every arm, we still wouldn’t reach that. In that situation it may not kill all that many people, but it will not go away, either. 

And it may still kill quite a few. Vaccinated people are protected from severe disease, but not perfectly: another Lancet paper suggests that the risk of hospitalisation, if you get the disease, is about a quarter what it would be if you weren’t. SPI-M-O suggests that an uncontrolled third wave could cause hundreds of deaths a day by autumn, even though almost everyone would be double-jabbed, hence Monday’s announcement of the delay to the roadmap.

So we need to talk about what the strategy should be.

So for starters, should we wait for variant-specific vaccine updates? The pharma companies aren’t idiots: they’ve already started creating vaccines for the Alpha to Delta variants. The mRNA vaccines, such as Pfizer and Moderna, are especially quick to turn around, since you can code a new one almost like computer software. 

Amin Khan, head of vaccines at the biotech firm GreenLight1, says that you can get a new variant-specific mRNA vaccine ready to go in a few weeks. And if the new version simply targets a slightly modified version of the spike protein, as the existing vaccines do, it won’t need much in the way of testing and regulatory approval. Changing your manufacturing system is more complicated, “but within two or three months, you can get a new variant to the market”.

Playing whack-a-mole with new variants isn’t a long-term solution, though. The hope is that “third-generation” vaccines will be capable of covering all the existing variants and most foreseeable future ones. But, says Khan, that’s a bit more complicated. A more complete version might target other parts of the virus than the spike protein; that would mean a much more rigorous testing and approval regime, and it may take months longer to get such a vaccine to market. 

We needn’t necessarily wait for a third-generation vaccine to start giving boosters, though. There is good reason to think that a third jab of an existing vaccine will provide a boost to protection, and there’s an ongoing trial at the University of Southampton to see whether that’s true — but it is true for other vaccines, so it’s probably true for Covid.

Assuming that it does offer greater protection, the next question is whether the booster jab should be the same vaccine you’ve already had, or a new one. Again, there are theoretical reasons to think that a different (“heterologous”) booster from the one you’ve already had might provide greater protection. But “there’s no substitute for large amounts of data”, says Beale. 

At the moment there isn’t much data. A Lancet paper came out recently which found that a heterologous boost had greater “reactogenicity” – that is, it caused more of the mild, expected side effects (feverishness, headache, joint pains) that tell you a vaccine is probably working – than a same-vaccine jab, while also finding no severe adverse reactions. So that’s promising, as are a few other studies

And the Southampton trial will be assigning people one of seven different vaccines at random, so it should naturally show if there’s a significant difference between using the same jab and using a different one. That said, it has a relatively small sample size (about 3,000 people, divided between seven Covid vaccines and a control), so it may not be powerful enough to detect small differences. 

One thing that might be worth trying is letting people say that they’re happy to take a heterologous third dose at their own risk; I (for instance) would be quite happy to take a Pfizer or Moderna jab on top of my two AZ doses, and accept the risk of any negative consequences, because I’m extremely confident that there wouldn’t be any. And if a few hundred thousand people did that, then we would soon get some good data on the effectiveness of the strategy.

Most likely, it will turn out that it’s best to do heterologous boosting. Not only might it be more effective, but it reduces the logistical difficulties of finding the right dose for the right person. A really crucial thing should be that we drop the restrictions on using the AstraZeneca vaccine in the under-40s; if we’re going to accelerate second jabs, let alone consider doing thirds, we’re going to need it.

The third question is who we should be giving it to. There is, as I understand it, good evidence that, insofar as vaccine-induced immunity gets weaker over time, it gets weaker fastest in the old; and since the old are the most vulnerable, it makes sense to boost from the eldest to the youngest again. I might add one detail, though, which is that since there is a clear difference in protection against Delta — at least according to the PHE data — between the Pfizer and the AstraZeneca vaccines, it may be worth preferentially giving boosters to people who had Ox/AZ. 

And the last question is: when? 

This is complicated; we need data. But assuming there is a real boost in protection from a third jab in people whose first jab was six months ago or more, then we probably need to start thinking about giving those elderly and vulnerable people the boost in the next couple of months. Professor Saul Faust, who heads the Southampton trial, says that the JCVI will make decisions in August or September, by which time the first vaccines will have been in people’s arms for nine or 10 months

If the UK hits its target of giving every adult a first dose by the end of July, then every adult should have had a second dose by the end of September or early October. Whether we ought to start giving third doses to the elderly before we give second doses to younger groups – or even whether we vaccinate children beforehand – is a question that can only be answered with a cost-benefit analysis, looking at how many lives (or rather years of life) we can expect to save with each. Until some actual data is in from the Southampton trial and others, we can’t reasonably do that analysis.

There’s another question, of course. Can we reasonably justify giving third doses to British citizens when billions of people around the world haven’t had a first dose? From a global perspective, the answer is obvious: a life in Malawi or Sri Lanka is worth no less than a life in the UK and should be given equal value. I instinctively want to say that we should throw huge amounts of money and all our spare vaccines into GAVI and Covax.

But from a UK government perspective, it’s not so clear. “The first duty of the Government is to afford protection to its citizens,” goes the axiom. If you hire a babysitter, you are paying that babysitter to look after your child, rather than every child in the world.

This doesn’t extend to a complete disregard for lives in other nations. If a babysitter saw a child drowning across the street, I think most of us would think it was justified for them to rush out and save it even if it meant leaving your child unattended for a few minutes; at some point, a large chance to save a life in the developing world outweighs a small risk to a life in your own country. But it is at least not obvious that, from a national government’s point of view, the right thing to do is share vaccines equitably. 

Most likely, I’m still well protected against Covid, including the Delta variant. But whether that will still be true by the time the Lambda, Upsilon, Pi and Omega variants arrive is not clear; each new variant that arrives is a new chance for it to escape the vaccines more effectively. 

This is still uncharted water. We need to chart them, as quickly as possible, and to get third jabs into people who need them, so that we can keep on opening up and not slide back into the dark days. I’ve put my name down for the Southampton trial.

FOOTNOTES
  1. Full disclosure: I’ve done some paid work with GreenLight during the pandemic

Tom Chivers is a science writer. His second book, How to Read Numbers, is out now.

TomChivers

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Jacqueline Walker
Jacqueline Walker
2 years ago

The tacit assumption in this article is that nothing else matters any more at all other than defeating covid. The attitude it displays is of the future for the whole country focused on only one thing: the next round of vaccine development, the next round of booster shots. Where is the rest of life? Other diseases exist. People have other problems. Stop this crazy obsession.

George Glashan
George Glashan
2 years ago

we’ve had the war on drugs, the war on terror… now comes the forever war against the flu

Bruno Lucy
Bruno Lucy
2 years ago
Reply to  George Glashan

well…..the war on terror is lost……thank you COVID….

David Owsley
David Owsley
2 years ago

Indeed, had to laugh at headlines re the G7 meet in Cornwall, saying all had agreement on future pandemic action…”Great!” I thought, use the tried and tested pandemic actions that were in place before SARS CoV2…errr, no, their great agreement was to get vaccines ready more quickly next time and push vaccine development, FFS.

Fred Oldfield
Fred Oldfield
2 years ago

Spot on Jacqueline. What in the name of god are these characters thinking?

Antony Hirst
Antony Hirst
2 years ago

Yes, agreed. This COVID thing is literally a neurological disease, not a virus.

Last edited 2 years ago by Antony Hirst
Bruno Lucy
Bruno Lucy
2 years ago

My God Jacqueline….how right you are…….I don’t want to go on the Greek alphabet merry go round and forget to live my life in the process or much worse…..have some brain dead politician decide wether I am allowed to live……full stop.
I have spent the last few evenings watching Sense and Sensibility…..Pride and Prejudice ….DVD’s…..I never read anything from Jane Austen but from one Wikipedia article to the next…..I got to learn the life surroundings and circumstances of these 19 century people.
They we’re surrounded by death….they lost spouses, children…..but never forgot to live and and joyful and loving life.
No crazy scientist or politician is going to deprive me of that…..third ….or hundredth jab or not.
Wake up people, because no matter what…..we’re all going to die.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago

In 30 years of trying, no one had ever previously successfully developed a safe vaccine for Coronaviruses- all animal phase trials resulted in the animals dying due to Pathogenic priming/ immune enhancement. This is where when they (the vaccinated animals) later encountered the virus their body mounted an excessive immune response/ cytokine storm. This was on ferrets who have the closest response to respiratory viruses as humans
The scientists said that this shows how important animal phase trials are and NEVER to skip them. Well the new Covid vaccines (using similar technologies to the previous ones) skipped the animal trials.
Also the pharmaceutical companies are all legally exempt from liability for any side effects of the vaccine. Which means they have no pressure to be sure they are safe.
Also the only way they could be rushed to market under “emergency” measures is if there was no viable treatment for Covid so drugs like Ivermectin and HCQ were suppressed and discredited as unsafe (bear in mind HCQ has been used sometimes lifelong for people including pregnant women for over 60 years and is very safe).
In 2019, researchers tested the blood of people who previously contracted and survived SARS CoV1 back in 2002. The virus is 80% similar to SARS CoV2. 17 years after infection, these people still had T cells which worked against SARS. Which suggests post infection immunity lasts at least 17 years (and potentially longer)?
Antibodies in the blood wane but they are not responsible for immunity. It’s the T cells

Never mind the high number of side effects which have been reported within a short time of being vaccinated. My BIGGEST fear with these untested vaccines is if this Pathogenic priming does indeed turn out to be an issue, people who have already been vaccinated (younger/ healthier people) could get very sick when they encounter SARS CoV2 and it will be blamed on more virulent mutant strains rather than the possibility it was pathogenic priming from the vaccine that caused it. This would then be the justification for boosters every year- and so on the cycle will go.

Hendrik Mentz
Hendrik Mentz
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

I need to do some homework. Please would you cite your sources – particularly paragraphs one and two.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Also look up Geert Van Den Bossche.
Apparently this is all well known amongst virologists. And yes he has been discredited as has anyone with an opinion against the mainstream narrative. But I have heard about this pathogenic priming several times from other sources which I did not save. But I would ask you to look it up yourself. It is a known phenomenon. Even Anthony Fauci declared this as a possibility a long time ago….. I’ll try and find the quote.

Last edited 2 years ago by Joy Afif
Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

It’s also called immune enhancement

Hendrik Mentz
Hendrik Mentz
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Thank you Joy, for the above links which I’ve upvoted although they (i.e. your links) and associated searches leave me somewhat confused and ambivalent, which I suspect describes most of us – including many experts.
I reckon we’re all flying blind which is why the precautionary principle should surely apply, but is it? Again, I’m confused and ambivalent.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Hendrik Mentz

Yes Hendrik, I also don’t know what to believe. And hope that none of my concerns are valid but without any long term data or any reassuring evidence to say the (experimental) vaccines have overcome the previous issues they had with Coronavirus vaccines then I am erring on the side of caution. Maybe I missed the memo.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Hendrik Mentz
Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Rushing the acceptance procedure does, indeed, increase the risk. Pretty sure the risk from vaccination is still much smaller than from the disease, but we do have to be vigilant. I hope you give those references to Hendrik Metz, I’d like to hear his conclusions.

Just one thing: If you are a major drug company with a brand to protect, you have *every* incentive to make sure your products are safe and do not cause a disaster. Sometimes, as with the Boeing 737 MAX, companies disregard their long term incentives for short term gain, but removing the legal exemption is unlike to change that.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I am not pretty sure the long term risks of the vaccine outweigh the risks of Covid for me personally. Perhaps in 5 years time I might think differently. Without long term data we just don’t know. Nobody does.

mike otter
mike otter
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Thanks for a bit of reason amongst so many fools.

Antony Hirst
Antony Hirst
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Even more eye-popping, look at the research by Dr Stephan Lanka.
https://prn.fm/infectious-myth-stefan-lanka-there-are-no-viruses-04-12-16/

Last edited 2 years ago by Antony Hirst
Michael Hanson
Michael Hanson
2 years ago
Reply to  Antony Hirst

Thanks for that link. Dr Stephan Lanka is very interesting and a real scientist who unravels where proper science has not been done. His research also delves deeply into the history of viruses, which is unusual these days.

Last edited 2 years ago by Michael Hanson
Michael O'Donnell
Michael O'Donnell
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Interesting, but wrong. Pathogenic priming was certainly a possibility and is well known with Dengue fever which has a much higher mortality in second infections than the first and is one of the reasons a vaccine has not yet reached the market. It has been explicitly sought for in trials and in the vaccinated population since the vaccine programmes have started. It is also fair to say that there are now sufficient people who have had the vaccine and then been infected after this to show that if pathogenic priming is a problem, it would be obvious. here was a trial with mice (not ferrets) and a SARS vaccine published in 2013 and this did suggest a possibility of an enhanced immune reaction. There was another study in 2004 showing liver damage in ferrets. It’s fair to say that the technology has moved on massively since these studies.
A few useful links: Endangered ferrets get experimental COVID-19 vaccine | Live Science
How Ferrets Are Helping Researchers Battle Covid-19 (undark.org)
Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus (plos.org)
Covid-19 vaccine did not kill every animal it was tested on – Full Fact
Coronavirus vaccine – weekly summary of Yellow Card reporting – GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
This bogus info about the COVID-19 vaccine is decidedly not true – oregonlive.com
It’s a shame you feel the need to be selective in your reading and publish your poorly informed conclusions.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago

Michael I actually welcome your response and will look at the links you have sent.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago

This article seems quite measured on the subject. It discusses the issues faced with some of the vaccines in the past and says that whilst there is no evidence that the new Covid Vaccines do cause Pathogenic Priming, we need to be cautious and observe. I guess that’s what I am doing and very much hoping it is indeed not something we will need to worry about. It is scary though that the vaccines are being pushed on those of us who do want to wait and see how things develop.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/covid-19-vaccine-researchers-mindful-of-immune-enhancement-67576

Last edited 2 years ago by Joy Afif
Anton van der Merwe
Anton van der Merwe
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

You clearly have a tendency to disbelieve credible sources and believe dubious ones. Unfortunately there is no cure for that. But please stop inflicting your illness on normal people. I am an immunologist who works on T cells and it is pretty clear you have no idea what you are writing about.

Last edited 2 years ago by Anton van der Merwe
Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago

Anton I would wholeheartedly welcome some credible sources which could show that the vaccine developers are sure pathogenic priming will not occur with these new vaccines. And that they are safe long term. Please show me some and I will gladly read them! I am not someone who likes to be a rebel and I certainly like an easy life as much as possible so please do share some trustworthy sources which might instil come confidence to all of us who aren’t sure.
My parents and brother have all been vaccinated and I would honestly be delighted if it does all work out that they are safe and effective. But I’ve not seen any sources of information on this that hasn’t come from the government or MSM.

Last edited 2 years ago by Joy Afif
Michael O'Donnell
Michael O'Donnell
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

What I forgot to mention is that there have been 16,000 reported reinfections so far in this country alone. No evidence of any pathogenic priming from those cases – unlike, say, dengue fever where the mortality from a second infection is around 5 times greater than in a first infection. Considering that, as of today, 61% of the adult population has had their second dose; if pathogenic priming were a problem, then we would absolutely know about it by now.

Last edited 2 years ago by Michael O'Donnell
Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago

The MOST scandalous part of all of this is that no one is talking about viable treatments for people who are very sick with Covid. We are obsessed with (experimental) vaccines above all else.
Dr. Peter McCullough has some excellent interviews online talking about his Covid treatment protocols which are hugely successful. Instead of letting patients suffer for 2 weeks and then come in to be put on a ventilator there are early interventions which can really turn things around for them. I think this is what Trump had and why he made such a fast recovery.
I was hoping UnHerd would consider having some articles on such things rather than trying to scare everyone in to signing up for booster jabs.

mike otter
mike otter
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Our (private) GP still recommneds chloroquine and/or remdesivir. In the early days before stocks were bought up and the drugs subject to MSM/Left wing witch hunts they got good results,. This saved quite a few from serious SARS-CoV2 effects and probable death. Imagine what will happen if the blob continues to leverage the virus yet medicine can be acquired to stop it…Expect to see remdesivir and chloroquine on the dark web with the rest of the drug cartel product list.

Last edited 2 years ago by mike otter
Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Reply to  mike otter

Remdesivir is hugely expensive, is used late stage and has proved to have limited efficacy. It also passed muster for use at a very low bar.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Reply to  mike otter

Ivermectin is more effective than both of them.

Sam McLean
Sam McLean
2 years ago

I had never heard of it until a week ago before Bret Weinstein’s podcast, now deleted from YouTube because, reasons…… (but still available here https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS80MjQwNzUucnNz/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC04NjI3ODA4?hl=en-GB&ved=2ahUKEwj64ZLuvZrxAhUMB8AKHY0xDOUQjrkEegQIAxAL&ep=6)

Friedrich Tellberg
Friedrich Tellberg
2 years ago
Reply to  Sam McLean

It’s also on youtube, in separate clips, but also at length: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL9TUjJVoZo

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago

I think they are going to go after the short versions too 🙁

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Reply to  Sam McLean

I have been taking it since the second wave in South Africa ie December/January. I’ve seen the entire Bret Weinstein post before it was inevitably censored. Thanks for the link to the full one that I can now save. I’ve watched and read tons of material. Some very good videos are Dr John Campbell interviewing Dr Tess Lawrie where you get to see the full meta analysis with explanations. He introduces the topic of Ivermectin quite often now and he is very conservative/mainstream. He also interviews Dr Pierre Kory.

Last edited 2 years ago by Lesley van Reenen
Michael O'Donnell
Michael O'Donnell
2 years ago
Reply to  mike otter

Can I have his name so I can report him to the GMC?

Peta Seel
Peta Seel
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

There’s little money in treatment, especially with existing drugs. No chance of it being pushed until everything on two legs has been vaccinated.

Marianna Kunna
Marianna Kunna
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Yes Joy, I too am disappointed with UnHerd for this kind of scaremongering. As you rightly say, for some of us, the potential vaccine risks (and we know nothing about longer term effects) may outweigh the risks posed by the virus. I have read all of the material you’ve referenced and trust my own intellect enough to make my own decision rather than just believe what the government and their advisors tell me. The thing that makes me most skeptical about the official narrative is the absolute shutting down of any debate around all of this. Even some of the most eminent virologists have been completely ‘de-platformed’ by MSM and the big names in social media.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Marianna Kunna

Marianna yes 100% agree. The more they try to shut down any discussion the more fishy it smells to me

Stephanie Surface
Stephanie Surface
2 years ago
Reply to  Marianna Kunna

The same is happening with anthropomorphic Climate Change. Any scientists (and there are still quite a few), who repudiate the connection between 0.04% of CO2 (humanity is only responsible for 3% of that) and Climate Change, won‘t get a voice in the debate anymore. BBC banned all so called “doubters”(even eminent scientists) from all their programs. Professor Curry lost her job at her University, Professor Lindzen gets ridiculed and so does Prof Shaviv. But we get a 16 year old Greta, who is celebrated by the world as a new Prophet being invited to every scientific platform. I sometimes think I live in a parallel world or the Twilight Zone.

Last edited 2 years ago by Stephanie Surface
Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago

Don’t even get me started on man-made climate change!

Michael O'Donnell
Michael O'Donnell
2 years ago

I think you mean anthropogenic climate change

Michael O'Donnell
Michael O'Donnell
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Do you know that such treatments aren’t being used? Have you spoken to any NHS doctors who treat Covid to find out what protocols they use? The NHS is conducting the largest trial in the World of potential treatments. Don’t forget that the use of dexamethasone was pioneered here. Also, for those people who say that ‘Big Pharma’ is somehow blocking the use of cheap medications, dexamethasone is extremely cheap.

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
2 years ago

Strikes me that it would be wise to treat a little carefully with the current spike protein based vaccines (whether encoded by mRNA as in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, or DNA as in the AZ, J&J and Russian Sputnik vaccines). It is quite evident that in younger people there are some very significant side effects. If these vaccines were targeted against some other viruses they would have all been pulled off the market by now. First we had the various blood clotting conditions associated with thrombocytopenia (largely but not exclusively in women between the ages of 20 and 50), something that everybody is taught about in med school but is unlikely to ever see in an entire career in medicine. Next we’ve had severe cases of myocarditis largely (but again not exclusively) in young health males (e.g. in the US marines or Israeli army) often requiring hospitalization and a years worth of recovery. And only last week a young, previously health, female teenager, 19 years of age, died as a result of myocarditis, following a second shot of the Moderna vaccine – every attempt was made to save this young lady including a heart transplant as a last resort, to no avail (and note she had no significant reaction to the first shot).
My personal suggestion: vaccinate those who are really at risk (say adults over the age of 50-55); do not vaccinate younger individuals absent severe co-morbidities, as the risk/benefit ratio is not good; and certainly do not give any booster shots of any sort to anybody who had any type of severe reaction following the initial two shots. Failure to follow this approach will only lead to disaster and a lack of trust in anything public health officials say from here on out. Unfortunately, our public health leaders in the US are totally blinkered and hoist with their own petard, displaying not a trace of humility. All very unfortunate.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Here in the UK too- they’re now talking about having children vaccinated. It’s absolutely abhorrent and I cannot believe this is even being discussed.

BenMore Coigach
BenMore Coigach
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

I agree Joy. I’m horrified and I don’t say that lightly. What evidence is there for safety longer term?

Andrea X
Andrea X
2 years ago

Ok, I confess: I started skimming the article faster and faster as I was “reading” it.
Am I wrong in saying that a lot of effort is being being put towards further restrictions in a few weeks’ time, so that nothing will change till spring next year, a mere 10-11 months down the line?

Last edited 2 years ago by Andrea X
Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrea X

Yes, you are wrong. The pressure for more ‘support’ if more restrictions are put in place will be the limiting factor. And all governments prefer to fund their own (usually deluded) priorities than those forced on them.

Peta Seel
Peta Seel
2 years ago

Would that be the same Lancet that suppressed until recently all papers relating to the fact that the virus was, in all probability, a gain of function engineered one?
How many vaccines against how many variants does anyone think that our immune systems can tolerate? The mRNA vaccines are completely new and no-one knows the medium term effects, i.e. the next year or so, never mind the long term ones.
And leave the children alone.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Peta Seel

Apparently the Lancet also published a fake paper about HCQ being dangerous. It was later retracted. You can google it!!!

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Reply to  Joy Afif

Yes, they gave it late stage at large doses then researchers refused to quote relevant data when questioned. It was then retracted. Of course people still quite the paper as though it is proof of inefficacy.

Malcolm Ripley
Malcolm Ripley
2 years ago

From a mix of pharmas own figures (approx is more than enough!), of the 15000 in the vaccinated group less than 10 got covid. Of the 15000 unvaccinated group just over a hundred got Covid. Mix together the 10 and the 100 and mathematically nonsensical 95% effectiveness drops out. Go back to the original 15000 and what you actually have is 14990/15000 in the vaccinated group did NOT catch covid. Likewise 14900/15000 in the unvaccinated group did NOT catch covid. This means we have an unvaccinated effectiveness of 99.3% (DUH!!!!) which rises to 99.9% once vaccinated……
Here’s the thing. That unvaccinated effectiveness of 99.3% is true FOR ALMOST ALL VARIANTS!
So we have two choices :
A. Inject ourselves multiple times a year FOREVER with the inevitable adverse reactions (which cannot be suppressed by the MSM much longer) to INCREASE our defense by 0.6%
B. Rely on natural immunity, with NO adverse side effects, for the rest of our lives……Difficult choice… NOT
Here’s the really good bit. We know who is susceptible to these illnesses and so we can protect at least 90% of them ! Not only that once anyone catches it we have various treatments.
All in all natural immunity, isolation of the vulnerable and off the shelf treatments will provide way more protection and lower death than a vaccine program.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
2 years ago

Or using wide spectrum cheap alternatives like ivermectin …
But we can see how Zero Covid has hijacked political mainstream. Doesn’t matter that most cases are mild, doesn’t matter that hospitals are empty, they want Zero Covid. Why are they (and you Tom Chivers) so obsessed with this one virus? There are many others than no one seems to be paying attention to.
Life will only be normal if we make it normal, with or without covid.

Antony Hirst
Antony Hirst
2 years ago

Well, I won’t be taking the third jab. I feel conned into the first two. My overriding thought is I was never at risk, I never will be, even if I am I simply don’t care anymore. Therefore there has to be another reason why they are pushing for this so-called ‘booster’.

Alexandra Stonor
Alexandra Stonor
2 years ago

What about the other treatments for Covid; Ivermectin being one? Whatever the immediate effects of the vaccine maybe, the long term implications cannot be known. Will there be reproductive problems as a result of the vaccine. Why continue with this dangerous campaign when there are alternatives to treat the disease?

Sam McLean
Sam McLean
2 years ago

Go here to find out more (Bret Weinstein’s podcast from a fortnight ago, now deleted from YouTube)

Last edited 2 years ago by Sam McLean
Adam Bacon
Adam Bacon
2 years ago

Agree with the comments below. Why the obsession with a virus with an IFR of approximately 0.25%(skewed towards the very elderly)? And there is every reason to think it has already done it’s worst, like every other respiration virus in human history.
After all, whatever happened to SARS 1? Although more lethal, it simply disappeared.

William McKinney
William McKinney
2 years ago
Reply to  Adam Bacon

SARS 1 was eradicated – it didn’t disappear. It was very different- less transmissible, only transmitted in symptomatic cases, very short incubation and much more lethal. In essence easy to track, trace and isolate. They managed to shut it down through locking down South China and HK (where I lived at the time). SARS 2 is clearly a different beast with totally different characteristics, and not amenable to suppression by the kind of interventions that suppressed version 1, as it is just about its polar opposite in all key respects.

Interestingly there have been 4 or 5 outbreaks of SARS 1, since 2003-2004 (Google it if interested). All outbreaks from labs that store the virus for reasons best known to themselves, most Chinese labs. All shut down quickly, but clearly adds credence to the idea that SARS 2 might just be a lab escapee.

Last edited 2 years ago by William McKinney
David Owsley
David Owsley
2 years ago

Kappa? There are THOUSANDS of variants! Delta made me laugh though; I look forward to XX Death Star Raging Bull mutant this winter. Plus just call them ‘jabs’, use of “vaccine” is now just annoying. And finally try quoting absolute risk with your “90% less likely to end up in hospital” etc., and see how ‘scary’ you can make your articles then.

Last edited 2 years ago by David Owsley
Sarah H
Sarah H
2 years ago

Will there be a vaccine against Tom Chivers at some point? Asking for a friend.

Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
2 years ago

Why does anybody refer to The Lancet anymore. It spent six years defending Andrew Wakefield before finally withdrawing his paper 12 years after the published it. They have recently tried to block any discussion of the virus being created in a laboratory.
I regularly read that the vaccines are working for the variants and only yesterday I read that there are new symptoms appearing and it described the delta variant as having the symptoms of a common cold. This is the basis on which the lockdown is continuing.
We regularly read that this virus spreads asymptotically and since the vaccine does not prevent people getting the virus, how is it going to prevent the spread?

William McKinney
William McKinney
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

Also the journal that published – with apparently no due diligence – and then (quietly) retracted the fraudulent HCQ hatchet-job, concocted by Surgisphere, a shady entity quite possibly linked to Big Pharma that – if it ever existed – seems subsequently to have melted into the ether.

Shame, as Richard Horton, the Lancet editor, has historically criticised, rightly (IMHO), the charade that is the peer review process, deeming it to be a way of determining the acceptability, not the validity, of a new idea. Basically a way of maintaining status quo and protecting vested interests and often therefore an impediment to progress. Over the past 15 months we’ve essentially been subject to an informal or lay version of this process through censorship of heterodox points of view by government, MSM and Big Tech. The road to darkness.

Last edited 2 years ago by William McKinney
Peta Wilson
Peta Wilson
2 years ago

When I read articles like this I think the journalist is on the government’s payroll.

Marianna Kunna
Marianna Kunna
2 years ago
Reply to  Peta Wilson

He does say that he has been doing paid work for a biotech firm. GreenLight Biosciences. Have a look at their webpage and it might explain the author’s views.

David Bell
David Bell
2 years ago

This is perhaps the most unfortunately silly article I have seen on Unherd. The Delta variant comes from India, where mortality is plummeting (for various reasons, probably including actual treatment). Infection with SARS-CoV-2 provides good, long-lasting protective immunity (2 more Nature papers on this in the past week). SARS immunity (which is also effective against SARS-CoV-2) lasts over 17 years. So it’s really time to stop this constant silliness. Freedom is not bought with vaccines, it is what we are born with, and just keep.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Reply to  David Bell

India introduced Ivermectin in most states in mid April, except in Tamil Nadu. Cases plummeted except in Tamil Nadu, where they continued to rise. Tamil Nadu is governed by one M.K. Stalin. I kid you not.
The Indian Bar association is suing the WHO for their attempts to discredit Ivermectin…. About time the legal fraternity got involved.

Philip Perkins
Philip Perkins
2 years ago

It is now widely accepted that the side-effects experienced after the second dose of ‘gene therapy’ are more-severe than the first. One can only speculate what will happen after a third dose. Our poor immune systems…

Edward De Beukelaer
Edward De Beukelaer
2 years ago

waffle waffle…

  • we know little as the vaccination is an experiment: the world is being coerced in participating in an experiment…nice
  • we knew that once vaccinated you can not get out of being re-vaccinated: you basically locked out personal more efficient systems
  • If you rely on vaccinations and not on pubic health to control disease, you will always loose
  • The vaccine solution for covid is mainly a narrative thing: hopefully the placebo effect of the vaccines will do the trick for most

where have the brains of the medical community gone to??????

Christian Filli
Christian Filli
2 years ago

I would like to believe that this piece is actually a parody of when we were told to wear a second mask and a third mask, just in case … Now we have the entire Greek alphabet of variants? Seriously?

Alka Hughes-Hallett
Alka Hughes-Hallett
2 years ago

I’ve not even bothered reading but Tom Chivers is fast becoming a vaccine junkie.
What would you give up to carry on beating Covid? If in future if it is realised that vaccines was not the way out, then would governments even reveal such a blunder? And what other health of ours would it compromise? Do we know? Nothing? One poison to kill another, there has to be a gamble. And we are being asked to take an awful lot of it.

Michelle Johnston
Michelle Johnston
2 years ago

Here is another interesting statistic from the NHS. Every single week since this Virus emerged in England 95% of the deaths are in people with a pre existing illness. Whether we vaccinate or not lockdown or not the case count goes up or down every single week the result is the same.
Of those co morbid 99.5% are over age 40.
Go speak to those people, focus on those people and leave the rest of us to be.
For the record I have been vaccinated and no one is more diligent than myself in all settings but this narrative is now way of piste.

Last edited 2 years ago by Michelle Johnston
Edward De Beukelaer
Edward De Beukelaer
2 years ago

mmmm, I just discovered that the author of this article is the science editor of Unheard. He obviously has no clue and just follows the narrative. Time to unsubscribe from unheard??? So far many of the reads have been good. Time to get rid of Tom Chivers to keep sanity in this news channel….

James Vernier
James Vernier
2 years ago

I am extremely disappointed to see Unherd dumping a load of horse apples like this on its readers. Fear mongering, indeed! I am a U.S. physician. I will not be unwillingly vaccinated. There are infinitely greater problems that we face in this world!

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
2 years ago

We don’t have herd immunity or an effective vaccine against flu, polio, HPV or HIV, which are all viruses too. I don’t see any way we return to a world in which COVID has been eradicated. I think we move on to one where it’s a rare and little noticed killer.

mike otter
mike otter
2 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

I agree thats a more likely outcome in the way that H1N1 kills more than most any other flu but even then its the very old/vulnerable and shows strong seasonal variations.

Stephanie Surface
Stephanie Surface
2 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

Thought we have an effective vaccine against Polio. But the research took years, and Polio is more or less eradicated in Western Countries.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago

But not eradicated worldwide…

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
2 years ago

Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever

OK, so we substitute “mask” for “boot”.

mike otter
mike otter
2 years ago

This is indeed uncharted waters… Hithertoo S-Cov, H-Cov, HKU and similar viruses needed to get weaker as they evolve. Their symptoms become basic common colds to keep the hosts and hence their own gene pool alive. The real long runners become archeo or even paleo viruses embedded in our own DNA. Novel viruses who’s variants are as deadly as the first will ulitmately become extinct as they will kill all their hosts. So either Covid 19 is so novel it is steps away from previous evolutionary paradgims, so probably man made, or the article is based on a mistaken or false premise. I hope its the latter, but whatever it is western governments will be powerless to deal with it due to a mix of ignorance and vested interests.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
2 years ago
Reply to  mike otter

That evolutionary trend for most viruses is expected but as you say, a man-made virus may be different. If the normal trend holds we expect better transmissibility but less serious outcomes. There is currently decent data that suggest a third shot for those 80+ because of immune system decline but it seems way premature to think a third shot will ever be needed.

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
2 years ago

If this is a description of the future then our darkest days are all ahead of us.

Peter Richards
Peter Richards
2 years ago

Questions, questions, questions – how to answer, just play Russian Roulette with the human guinea pigs.

Michael Hanson
Michael Hanson
2 years ago

I miss the good old days when we had proper vaccines to refuse!
Now we have to say no to countless pseudo ones (at least 3 a year it seems) which may (and of course may not) only reduce symptoms and/or transmission.
Oh, and also when children could decline vaccines for childhood diseases – and not guilt tripped into protecting the elderly and infirm (I suggest these older people have had a lifetime during which they could have made an effort to build up a healthy immune system).

Last edited 2 years ago by Michael Hanson
Friedrich Tellberg
Friedrich Tellberg
2 years ago

I find many comments here that disagree, but to me it’s no reason for discontent with Unherd or even Tom Chivers as one of its authors. Personally, I am skeptical about successive vaccinations like many of the commentators. But I like my position to be challenged sometimes, preferably by an author who is clear about his position in the debate and who is well-informed on figures and data, and whom I learned to respect from his texts on other topics. Part of forming an opinion is finding how and on what grounds other people’s conclusions diverge from my own.
He is clear about his involvement in vaccine trials and his belief that some people (which means not all) may benefit from boosters or new vaccines. Which is quite different from some other media that advocate third or even further vaccination campaigns for whole populations.

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago

I agree most of us are often guilty of confirmation bias and it is good to read other opinions (as we do with these comments) but it’s just not the sort of article I would have expected from UnHerd as the tone suggests that Covid is the only risk we should care about in life.

Dennis
Dennis
2 years ago

Just two sentences into the article:

Next week, it will be one year since I had my first jab;

Do people in real life (not journalists,) actually speak this way? Most people I know have been vaccinated. Moreover, they speak about their vaccination experience *incessantly*. Yet not a single one of them has ever described themselves as having been “jabbed” or having gotten the “jab”. I can’t speak for others, but personally this is off putting. It suggests that the rest of the article is going to be a bunch of narrative spin.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Reply to  Dennis

Hmmmm.. I do an excellent impersonation of people talking of getting “the jab” – with air quotes and suitable naff accent. The UK is not vaccine hesitant, maybe that is why vaccines are mainstream. It isn’t this way in many other countries.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
2 years ago

The great thing about the third jab is they can keep us locked down until everyone has had it, which should give them at least another six months.

Jacqueline Walker
Jacqueline Walker
2 years ago

And as for the Southampton trial. 3000 people and 7 different jabs (or combinations I presume.) Even assuming they act as controls for each other that’s only about 428 in each arm! Talk about underpowered. Completely useless would be a more apt description.

Chris Eaton
Chris Eaton
2 years ago

It’s inevitable? Only if you are a coward.
Here is where you analysis is fatally flawed: Until the WHOLE WORLD is vaccinated…there is no such thing as safety. Therefore, it is time to put on your big boy pants, be a man, and be prepared to ride this thing out to the end…whatever that end may be. Feel free to get all the shots you want…and expect huge pushback from people who don’t agree with your views.

Last edited 2 years ago by Chris Eaton
Su Mac
Su Mac
2 years ago

What we should do is…ivermectin, ivermectin, ivermectin, ivermectin, IVERMECTIN!! ….If anyone has not yet watched the Dark Horse / Brett Weinstein interview with Dr Pierre Kory on the global results with this long established, Nobel award winning anti-parasitic drug and his own experience with ivermectin I highly recommend it. Search with the key words above should bring it up.

Robin Paterson
Robin Paterson
2 years ago
Reply to  Su Mac

I concur Su Mac. I live in Canada where the medical profession is not recommended to use Ivermectin to treat Covid 19. To me this is completely scandalous. I have been following the Ivermectin story for some time and it is clear this is a winning drug. Its problem is of course that there is no money to be made from it. End of story. Where would we be if we used it extensively? For sure less bad outcomes from Covid and maybe even a lower level of fear. I despair this will not happen.

Bashar Mardini
Bashar Mardini
2 years ago

I think what this article gets wrong is that humans have encountered pathogens throughout history and managed to survive and thrive
Now, the key difference, is that prior to vaccines, a novel pathogen would spread through populations in successive waves until a baseline level of immunity was generated, after which a sort of equilibrium level would be attained
What vaccines have done is give us a “free wave”, the equivalent of population-wide infection, but without the disease and suffering
Thereafter, “waves” of covid will occur on a population that is no longer immunologically naive
3rd jabs are inevitable, but they will have far, far, less impact than the first 2

Michael Hanson
Michael Hanson
2 years ago
Reply to  Bashar Mardini

“but without the disease and suffering”
Apart from the adverse reactions and who knows what in the future.

Susan
Susan
2 years ago

No Tom Chivers, you’re not in uncharted waters. You’re an obsessive vaccine junkie who spouts rubbish most of the time. For goodness sake, Unherd, stop printing his drivel. It’s obvious from the many intelligent, thoughtful and well-researched comments below that most people are fully aware of the true situation. Your ramblings are just a waste of space.

Last edited 2 years ago by Susan
Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago

There have apparently been 5500 deaths and over a million adverse events to date from vaccines.

Sam McLean
Sam McLean
2 years ago

I believe you are referring to VAERS? Not quite Lesley, those figures cannot be unequivocally tied to a Covid vaccine – these are events that have happened after vaccines have been given. People get sick all the time and of course they could just get sick a week after being vaccinated. But these events are not being properly investigated. On the other hand, these figures are voluntary and self-reported, and apparently VAERS scientists estimate they represent ~25% of the true figures.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Reply to  Sam McLean

Yes, but even adjusted it is a whopping figure for the amount of time they have been administered..

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago
Reply to  Sam McLean

The same argument can be said for Covid deaths being recorded fir anyone testing positive within 28 days of dying.

Jeffrey Chongsathien
Jeffrey Chongsathien
2 years ago
Reply to  Sam McLean

No, the estimate is 1% of the true figures.

Jeffrey Chongsathien
Jeffrey Chongsathien
2 years ago

Dear Freddie Sayers – for the nth time, please fire Tom Chivers. He’s a disgrace. Instead, please hire someone who’ll write about how the spike protein is cytotoxic, doing all the damage of COVID19, and that the mRNA vaccines are causing spike protein to be distributed across the body. Hire someone who’s capable of identifying the fraudulent statistics of the PCR, and the fraudulent presentation of the COVID19 statistics and what they mean for society. In short, fire this idiot.

djs.adam
djs.adam
2 years ago

Chivers is a great example of a contemporary phenomenon of the opinion sheriff. He presents himself as a Bayesian rationalist with deep scientific perspective but in reality shills for polite opinion in the mildly authoritarian tone of scientism. It’s ridiculous. Read Geert Vanden Bossche for informed opinion – https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/
Or Robert Malone – @RWMaloneMD

Jeffrey Chongsathien
Jeffrey Chongsathien
2 years ago

Fire.Tom.Chivers.

Michael Hanson
Michael Hanson
2 years ago

I think of him as the devil’s advocate and as such is useful in strengthening our arguments.

Florin Home
Florin Home
2 years ago

This article might actually support the idea that the infection with covid-19 leads to mental disorders of all kind.

Martin Akiyama
Martin Akiyama
2 years ago

I’m astonished by all the comments here from anti-vaxxers. Are these people really representative of UnHerd’s subscribers, or is it just that anti-vaxxers are more likely to voice their views in response to an article like this?
I see UnHerd’s target audience as being “unwoke free-thinkers”, which covers a lot of different people with a lot of different views. Tom Chivers’ intelligently written articles are a large part of the reason why I am a subscriber.

Su Mac
Su Mac
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin Akiyama

Martin, I suggest that the phrase anti vaxxers is actually not representative and illustrates an unhelpful preconception on your part. I would wager money that most commenters here resisting the Covid jab, have actually had all manner of established, normally tested vaccines – in 2019 I sought a travel clinic to buy what I remember as diptheria, hepatitis and tuberculosis jabs for me and my husband before a stint of travelling. We both declined yellow fever when the risks were explained and we decided not to go to places where it is endemic. It is called risk analysis and I did the same when deciding not to have the Covid jab.

Richard Sutton
Richard Sutton
2 years ago

“Got vaccinated before it was cool”
Are you certain you’re a scientist?

BenMore Coigach
BenMore Coigach
2 years ago

This is disappointing to read.

Why is there no discussion about the young just now getting it naturally. Will that not reduce the risk of variants, the need for boosters AND vaccine reactions?

I wasn’t a conspiracy theorist but recent events are tipping me that way

Jack Streuth
Jack Streuth
2 years ago

Here is an interesting one that you can all try at home. I have a long time friend who, having received both doses and having read a bizarre headline, placed a fridge magnet to the vaccination site on his upper arm. It stuck. He then tried with a spoon, it stuck. After a stiff scotch, he suggested his wife did the same. She did, same result. I don’t care if you believe this story or not ( and I wouldn’t have if I hadn’t known him for 20 years ) but it might be interesting if you tried it out on your own arm.

Jonathan Bagley
Jonathan Bagley
2 years ago

I can’t believe these comments. I expect this from the Mailonline, but not here. Covid is not a Government conspiracy, as can be seen from excess deaths. And your self-delusion is breath-taking. Why do you think you know better than people who’ve spent years studying the subject. The incidence of serious harms from vaccines is minuscule. You are at more risk driving to the vaccine centre. If the number of cases isn’t controlled, hospitals will once again be overwhelmed and; as Tom says, R=7 requires a population immunity of around 1-1/7 = 0.857 to prevent this happening. You people are like self-harmers, or men with tatoos, who do body-building and keep a vicious dog. It gives them something in their life over which they have control. Please take your bonkers nonsense somewhere else

Michael Hanson
Michael Hanson
2 years ago

You are obviously annoyed at people disagreeing with your mainstream views but this is what Unherd is for – it says so on the tin!

Joy Afif
Joy Afif
2 years ago

I am not anti-vaccine. I am anti -forced vaccine. This is a totally new drug using new technology – it’s not even really a vaccine. There is no long term data so no one knows how safe it is. The survival rate for Covid for people under 65 is around 99.97%.
Bonkers nonsense? I don’t think so.

Su Mac
Su Mac
2 years ago

Are you not aware of the >1,000’s of Dr’s and medical professionals globally who have “spent years studying the subject” and disagree with all or some of what is “established fact” according to other Dr’s and medical professionals? It ain’t cut and dried. So stop trying to insult people who are more sceptical for all sorts of reasons. Suggest you have a look at the twitter feeds of Dr Robert Malone, Geert Vanden Bossche and Dr Pierre Kory – 3 bonefide examples of people who are more sceptical than you and know more than you. Or perhaps read the recent British Heart Foundation research paper into why Covid spike proteins are so dangerous to the heart muscle? Yes – those same vaccine-administered-spikes settling helpfully in the lining of capillaries all over your body. It will be an interesting winter.