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Why does the West hate itself? White progressives are blinded by their own guilt

Justice in the West, but not the rest. Photo: Getty

Justice in the West, but not the rest. Photo: Getty


May 28, 2021   6 mins

Today’s biggest debates are about justice. Terms like “social justice”, “economic justice” and “racial justice” permeate discussions on what needs to change in the world. Young people, usually the hungriest for justice, arguably have more of a voice than ever in history, thanks to social media. While it is welcome news that justice dominates debate, the narrative contains an underlying contradiction which no one is prepared to address: that we always seem to end up holding the West to higher standards of justice than others without ever quite explaining why this ought to be the case.

This is strange if we claim to care about people everywhere rather than just those in particular places, as liberals especially claim to do. It is also paradoxical to hold today’s progressive position that it is racist for Western societies to think themselves more “advanced” while simultaneously holding them to higher standards of justice than others. Such contradictions abound because in our debates over justice, we are reluctant to admit the truth: that while Western societies are not fair, they are pretty much the fairest humanity has built so far. And fairness is the best measure of justice we have.

Societal fairness itself is difficult but not impossible to measure. When it comes to economic fairness, Europe is the most equal of all regions with the top 10% pocketing 35% of income in 2019, according to the World Inequality Database. In contrast, those figures in the Middle East, Latin America and Africa are 56%, 54% and 50% respectively; the US, at 45%, is a negative outlier in terms of income equality in the Western world.

For social mobility, OECD analysis suggest that if you’re born into a poor family in Sweden, it would take you three generations to reach the average national income; in Canada it would take four generations, in Britain five. In China, South Africa and Colombia, it would take seven, nine and 11 generations respectively. So, while you don’t want to be born poor anywhere, your chances of escaping poverty in the West are significantly higher than in most other places, bar a few notable exceptions, mostly in East Asia.

Where are you likely to be treated most fairly if you’re a woman? Sadly, you may face unfair treatment in every part of the world, but you’re least likely to experience it in the West, according to the UN’s Gender Inequality Index, which measures factors ranging from female access to political power and jobs to education levels and forced child marriages. You are also less likely to have your abilities doubted in the West, according to the latest World Values Survey. In my fatherland of Nigeria, for instance, 75% of the population believe “men make better political leaders than women”, a similar figure found in Pakistan. Over half of Russians, Turks, Indonesians and South Koreans agree. Just 8% of Germans and 12% of Australians share this bias.

There are exceptions, and countries like Rwanda vastly outperform Western nations in female political participation, women constituting 62% of Rwanda’s national legislature, compared to 34% in the UK. However, while it is not easy to be a woman anywhere, it is probably safe to say it is generally less difficult in the West.

What if you’re a sexual minority? In 2019, UCLA’s Williams Institute compiled a Global Acceptance Index, ranking countries from least to most accepting of LGBT people, and Western countries were by far the fairest. Small wonder that they dominate the list of countries deemed “safe” on the LGBTQ+ Travel Index.

Race appears to be the West’s Achilles heel when it comes to justice. While some societies like Britain are fairer than others, there’s no use dancing around the fact that there persists an informal racial hierarchy positing white people at the top, black people at the bottom and everyone else somewhere in between. While only three European nations gather data on race — Ireland, Finland and Britain — widespread discrimination against blacks and other minorities in Europe is well-documented. I think most fair-minded Brits would agree there is a significant justice gap when it comes to race in the West.

This gap, however, has increasingly less to do with personal attitudes than with the massive wealth and resultant power disparities that have emerged between racial groups over the past 500 years, including as a result of slavery and colonialism. As I’ve written before, median white British household wealth stands at ÂŁ314,000, compared to ÂŁ66,000 for the median British-Bangladeshi family and ÂŁ34,000 for the black African family. Similarly, a typical white American family owns eight times the wealth of a typical black American family and five times that of a Hispanic family. These disparities position the average person of colour weakly in a capitalist world where money is the key to autonomy. It is also worth mentioning that there are vast wealth differences between Britain’s ethnic minority groups, with median Indian households on average being as wealthy as their white British counterparts, for instance. In both the US and Britain, those of Indian descent now have higher incomes than their white counterparts, if not overall wealth.

And while this is far from perfect, there is ethnic economic inequality outside of the West, too, arguably more so; a study by academics at Harvard, Brown University and London Business School, concluded that “Sub-Saharan Africa and East and South Asia host the most ethnically unequal countries. In contrast, Western Europe is the region with the lowest level of ethnic inequality.”

When it comes to personal attitudes towards people of other races, Westerners are often among the most open-minded. When asked in the World Values Survey who they would not like to have as neighbours, 3% of Americans and Germans, and 4% of Australians mentioned “people of a different race”. In China it’s 18%, in Pakistan 25% and Turkey 41%. Two-in-three Vietnamese said they would object.

When it comes to respecting human rights, nowhere is this taken as seriously as in the West, as we can see from the UN’s Universal Human Rights Index. Growing up in Nigeria, I was from a young age depressingly aware that “human rights” were just words on a piece of paper to those in charge – and not much has changed since then. Since current president Muhammadu Buhari came to power in 2015, the country’s security forces have killed hundreds of Nigerian civilians, including unarmed youths protesting police brutality last year.

Whether it is Nigeria’s government brutalising its citizens, China herding Uighur Muslims into “re-education camps” or Libyan slave markets actually auctioning black people like cattle in the 21st-century, injustices elsewhere often provoke muted responses from Western progressives — certainly, nowhere near the outrage that accompanies even much lesser injustices in the West. This from the same people who profess to care about all of humanity, not just those living within their borders.

Are there logical reasons to hold the West to higher standards of justice? Its wealth is certainly one, since it is easier to enforce the rule of law, respect human rights and create a generally more equitable society when you have the resources to do so. This year, the NHS alone has a working budget seven times the size of the entire national budget of Nigeria, Africa’s most populous country. Even if Nigeria’s government had angel intentions, it simply lacks the resources to build an equitable society for its 200 million citizens. And there are many countries in the world much poorer than Nigeria. To expect the same standards of justice from them that we expect of the West is completely unrealistic.

However, there are quite a few very wealthy non-Western nations, among them countries like Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates, or the likes of Singapore, Japan or South Korea. Yet while these rich non-Western nations tend to provide high standards of living and are attractive in many ways, they rarely offer the level of individual freedom and societal tolerance often found in the West.

One justification for holding the West to higher standards that I often hear from my non-Western friends is that Westerners claim to be more just than others. They love hailing “Western values” and proclaiming their societies as fair and tolerant, and this warrants subjecting them to more critical scrutiny than others. There’s a logic here and it is difficult to reconcile, say, America’s claim to be the “shining city on a hill” with its criminal invasion of Iraq (supported by Britain) which ended up causing immeasurable suffering for millions. And yet we know those who invaded will never be held to account, for who can hold powerful countries to account?

However, while such actions understandably foster cynicism towards Western moral declarations, would we rather that Western nations declare, Trumpesquely, that from now on: “No more morals or values. We will simply use our military and economic power to ruthlessly pursue our interests. We no longer care what others think of us.” Would we then happily lower our assessment standards for the West because it is no longer hypocritical? In practice, a West that shed all moral pretence would deprive others of the ability to deploy the argument of hypocrisy against it, leaving the weakest nations pretty much helpless in the face of brute power. That would hardly make for a fairer world.

While many white progressives are ashamed of their societies for its past sins, and feel it responsible for today’s global problems, many of my non-white friends acknowledge the West’s relative fairness in private, especially those who have experience of life elsewhere. However, they believe that as people of colour, we should refrain from acknowledging this publicly, because that could only weaken our position in the quest for racial justice. Wouldn’t that encourage white whataboutism? And wouldn’t we be emboldening the white supremacists who claim that Western civilization is superior to others? How is any of this in our self-interest?

These are valid fears I share, but if we want to have an honest debate about race and the West, then it cannot be built on pretending we don’t see or know certain things. Our assessment of how fair Western societies are should itself be fair, to give credit where it is due as well as criticism. It should factor in what is going on elsewhere in human civilisation. Not because of a desire to give Westerners a pat on the back so they can feel good about themselves, but because any other type of assessment is conveniently arbitrary, and arbitrary justice is no justice at all.


Dr Remi Adekoya is a Polish-Nigerian writer and political scientist. His book Biracial Britain: A Different Way of Looking at Race, is available now.

RemiAdekoya1

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omuireartaigh
omuireartaigh
3 years ago

“…many of my non-white friends acknowledge the West’s relative fairness in private, especially those who have experience of life elsewhere. However, they believe that as people of colour, we should refrain from acknowledging this publicly, because that could only weaken our position in the quest for racial justice.”ï»ż
This is such a bad thing to do. Pretending that there is no improvement will kill all motivation to improve. It will also make white people get sick and tired of the negativity, and drive many into racist identifications. 

Last edited 3 years ago by omuireartaigh
Martin Price
Martin Price
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

On a very basic level it also ignores “fairness” for other races that they are demanding for themselves.

Steve Moxon
Steve Moxon
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

No. It will drive us all to hate the Left. And do they deserve it or what?!
The Left deserve everything that’s coming to them, and what’s coming to them is going to be far worse than they imagine.

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  Steve Moxon

Everyone already hates the Left. Go around talking about peace, freedom, equality, fairness, righteousness, and so forth, and most people will hate you. It’s even in the Bible.

Judy Johnson
Judy Johnson
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

Could you give the Bible chapter and verse(s) please? That is such an interesting idea.

Last edited 3 years ago by Judy Johnson
Jonathan Weil
Jonathan Weil
3 years ago
Reply to  Judy Johnson

I think he’s referring to the crucifixion and the immediate run-up thereto.

Judy Johnson
Judy Johnson
3 years ago
Reply to  Steve Moxon

Why would it make us hate the left?

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago
Reply to  Steve Moxon

They’ll be for it but so will we. There seems to be a revolving group of international people who fill various posts. They do not have to like or even know anything about the institution they join ( as they are from another country they don’t care anyway) Those underneath them may be good at music or selling things but have to work under the instructions of this international cartel. Eventually they destroy or completely change the business , national heritage, university , charity etc and then just move on-rewarded for failure. Everyone else loses their job.After all the things that are valuable or successful have been destroyed what’s left? The young are taught that their elders were evil so won’t want to rebuild. The new lot are only too happy to recreate their old countries in this new country & demographically they are going to be the winners. Old people don’t fight wars & they are the ones chiefly dismayed by this take-over.-the young just want the old to die so they can inherit. Will they be a group of oldies trying to reclaim their land like one of those 1970’s survivalist dramas?

Geoff Cooper
Geoff Cooper
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

Yes, I’m afraid you are right, it is already happening, a kind of weariness, a compassion fatigue is already slightly changing the cultural atmosphere, and not in a nice way.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Geoff Cooper

Its NOT All bad, volunteers at The national trust demanded MD resignation &Got it for obsessive ”Wokeness” Also it looks like their climate supervisor Position at ÂŁ40,000pa will be deleted…

Steve Lee
Steve Lee
3 years ago
Reply to  Geoff Cooper

If the media didn’t withhold the truth about how many people from the native population suffer violence (”grooming gangs”, Islamic terror, ”knife crime”, acid attacks etc etc) at the hands of the “new Britons” – literally hundreds of thousands of people over the last forty years or so – it would be much more than ‘compassion fatigue’.

Last edited 3 years ago by Steve Lee
Terry M
Terry M
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

This was a factor that motivated populism in the US, and Trump voters to an extent. History is being white-washed to make it seem that cops are still turning dogs loose on the crowd of black people. The ‘white-cop-kills-black-person’ stories are selectively reported and amplified to keep the racial grievance pot boiling, when, in fact, these events are becoming less and less frequent. Indeed, it’s their infrequency that makes them news-worthy at all: man bites dog.

Dorothy Slater
Dorothy Slater
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

do read Michael Tracy on Substack today. He is visiting the UK and can’t quite figure out why you Brits are rolling in white guilt over the George Floyd killing = I refuse to call it murder. I think he refers to it as cultural imperialism. I would think Brits have enough guilt over the way poor Prince Harry has been treated over the years – not to forget the treatment given to the Duchess.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

Not sure if the comment was ironic! No guilt over the killng of a criminal in some far away state. And what have I/we got to be guilty about in the case of poor privileged Harry or his manipulative C-list actress? We gave her every chance but she didn’t want to fit in over here. California is welcome to the pair and I hope they stay there for the rest of their irrelevant lives.

Dorothy Slater
Dorothy Slater
3 years ago
Reply to  Jos Haynes

Totally ironic – it is the difference between American and British humor I suppose. To be frank, I don’t get a lot of British irony/humor but I certainly don’t want the reputation as a supporter of the Sussex couple. Thank God they chose Oprah land and not Portland

Martin Woodford
Martin Woodford
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

God – how my jokes used to bomb on concalls with American colleagues….

Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

I got your joke Dorothy and yes you are quite welcome to the spoilt and fettered pair of them, as you as an American might say ‘Missing you already’ lol

Last edited 3 years ago by Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson
3 years ago
Reply to  Jos Haynes

She was tongue in cheek about Harry, I’m sure of that

Drahcir Nevarc
Drahcir Nevarc
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

“I would think Brits have enough guilt over the way poor Prince Harry has been treated over the years – not to forget the treatment given to the Duchess.”
You phukin what?!?

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago
Reply to  Drahcir Nevarc

Its outrageous that they now have to earn their own living. Couldn’t we put a penny on the tax to help them out? Harry said its important to tell suicidal people ( Meghan) that they are not alone. Maybe thats why she feels suicidal Harry , she realizes she has married someone even more narcissistic than herself?

Matt Harries
Matt Harries
3 years ago
Reply to  Drahcir Nevarc

How did anyone not see the joke here? I should think most Brits would be onboard with that one. Come on people.

Martin Woodford
Martin Woodford
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

You are quite right Dorothy. It is a mystery to many of us why he seems to be on the verge of sainthood in the eyes of our media. No one would suggest he deserved to die in the way he did, but no one can deny too that he was a pretty apalling criminal and why he should be a cause celebre of the left is a mystery. It’s not as if a whole lot of other people didn’t die useless deaths the same day and have gone totally unremarked – and the vast majority of these were not violent criminals.

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago

George Floyd’s lack of status and repute is precisely what makes him an icon.

rrostrom
rrostrom
3 years ago

What mystery? There was video that could be used to make the incident look bad. That’s what the “BLM activists” want. No video, no uproar.
In Chicago, a black woman (Rekhiah Boyd) was shot in the back of the head by a police detective. He was eventually charged with manslaughter. The judge ruled that he should have been charged with murder, and was therefore innocent of manslaughter – and issued a directed verdict of “not guilty”. The man never spent a minute in prison. No “protests, no riots, no nothing.
Floyd, BTW, was pretty much of a scrote, but he’d done nothing violent for a long time. Still, it is bizarre that the Minnesota Twins have a huge memorial plaque for him on the outfield wall of their baseball field. AFAIK, he is the only non-baseball person so honored anywhere.

Steve Lee
Steve Lee
3 years ago
Reply to  rrostrom

Whether Floyd was a career criminal or not, Derek Chauvin used a restraining technique which was approved by the Minneapolis police department. How any man can be prosecuted for murder when he’d called an ambulance and then used a legally-mandated restraint is beyond me.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago
Reply to  rrostrom

Obviously some police are just bad. However if every day is like Gunfight at the OK Corral this is going to make a person’s nerves on edge & occasionally be a bit trigger happy.

Ralph Windsor
Ralph Windsor
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

Most of us Brits are not “rolling in white guilt” over Floyd or anything else. And as for Harry and Duchess Meg, please keep them over your side of the Pond.

Karen Vowles
Karen Vowles
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

Poor Prince Harry? what sort of person could drop that bombshell when your grandad is dying at home? Spoilt.

rrostrom
rrostrom
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

“killing”? ITYM death by self-inflicted drug overdose.

Judy Johnson
Judy Johnson
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

Prince Harry was born lumbered. I can understand he does not care to be a royal but we are all lumbered with one thing or another (or more!)

Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

Being brought up with all that wealth and privilege and treated like a prince all his life must have damaged poor Harry irrevocably.

Last edited 3 years ago by Andrew Thompson
Steve Lee
Steve Lee
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

I feel no guilt over either.

Ann Ceely
Ann Ceely
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

No. I think Harry’s been caught by those who want a figurehead – with no concern for his welfare!

zac chang
zac chang
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

Do you live in a parallel universe then?

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

And meanwhile the staggering level of black on black and black on white homicide is almost entirely unremarked on.

Terry M
Terry M
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

Indeed!
I was responding to “Pretending that there is no improvement will kill all motivation to improve. It will also make white people get sick and tired of the negativity”
I am old enough to remember the 50’s and 60’s here in the US, and you’d think from the MSM and the leftists that nothing had changed. That seriously disrespects all those – black and white – who labored for years to make things better. And that makes a lot of us sick and tired of the whining and race-baiting from the race-hustlers and malcontents.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

Black cop kills White woman*….that’s OK!

He gets away with it !**

(*Ms Ashli Babbitt, Capitol disturbances, Jan 2021.)
(** Technical term: ‘Blue Murder’.)

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

People saw a video of a police officer kneeling on a Black man’s neck who thereby (apparently) died. You only need one of those.

joycebrette
joycebrette
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

They should have showed the body cam recently released that showed the drugged up suspect resisting arrest and crying out, I can’t breathe, before he was on the floor, a classical symptom of overdosing on illegal drugs that suppress breathing. Also the officer is said to be kneeling on the back of the culprits neck which restrains but does not prevent breathing.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

I think it is known as grifting

John Standing
John Standing
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

omi,
The non-whites colonising us entirely without our consent are not “seeking racial justice”. They ate seeking control over the resources of our homeland. That is how colonisations work.
Wake. up. This is a classic colonisation and replacement event organised by the elites class. We are not obligated to consent to it.

Don Gaughan
Don Gaughan
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

The liberal left promoted and supported mass foreign third world migration into all western countries, promoted the now discredited culture destroying multiculturalism policy, and now persecuting the western host populations with CRT for massive socialist power/ resource transfer based on skin color.
Hows it all working for you so far?

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

so your friends choose to let the pursuit of the perfect destroy the good. Great strategy. What could go wrong.

mike otter
mike otter
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

Race or class war is the only option on the table for leftists sadly including UK Labour,Greenies and Limp Dims. They have failed to destroy our way of life with migration, with infiltration of the public sector and no red in UK has won an election since 1974. We need to hold fast to our values of universalism, pluralism and secularism if we are to defeat these scoundrels by civil means.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  mike otter

1997,2001,2005 Blair Was Red Trotskyite at University as were most of his Cabinet..won 3 Elections,he hadn’t Gravitas of Harold Wilson or Sunny Jim Callaghan…..SDP the only hope of Moderate left..or Greedy Tory developers will concrete over woke britannia?…

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

What he’s really saying is that his non-white friends are not honest people.

Elizabeth dSJ
Elizabeth dSJ
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

“racist identifications”
It is people like you, whose shrill, pseudo-moral denunciation of Europeans, and Europeans only, for exhibiting any natural bond and sense of stewardship with our ancestors and native lands who have driven me there.

Last edited 3 years ago by Elizabeth dSJ
Karen Vowles
Karen Vowles
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

common sense gone mad……

Jake C
Jake C
3 years ago
Reply to  omuireartaigh

Right ,its demoralising: what is the point,they are always going to demonise and stigmatise white people and broader UK society

John Standing
John Standing
3 years ago

I had a conversation this afternoon with a few liberal opposition types on a Hungarian blog. They all wrote in English but with that coarse, abusive style one encounters on American sites. They seemed to think anyone who isn’t an Orban-hater must be devoid of intellect, although they demonstrated a remarkable absence of it themselves.
My point is that these typically empty liberals were not driven by guilt. They were driven by hate, and I think that is also true of the liberal-left here. Guilt might have applied with libbos from the age of empire. But now it’s just hatred. as one travels further left it seems to be more mental infirmity.

Johannes Kreisler
Johannes Kreisler
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

My point is that these typically empty liberals were not driven by guilt. They were driven by hate

[…] as one travels further left it seems to be more mental infirmity.

Precisely, True of the lib/left pretty much everywhere, although the tone is a good deal more nasty and hateful in Hungary – most of the stuff i read in comment sections are not even translatable to English (we Hungarians have some particularly rude way with words, heh), so that coarse abusive style was likely a tamed version of typical libspeak. Unfortunately there are some who perceive wokery as some aspirational, sophisticated “western” thing, so much above us unwashed second-world Hungarian peasants. This misplaced inferiority complex is a long-lasting residue of the communist era – and today’s 20- & 30-somethings are more susceptible to swallow the leftist hogwash, not having much personal experience of a leftist regime. Thankfully they are a minority though.
Anyway, my sympathies for having to deal with them!

Anna Rye
Anna Rye
3 years ago

I love Hungary and have visited three times now and I agree, young people there just don’t have a clue. One told me that it was “ all right wing propaganda and to disagree was both rude and fascist”. I was lost for words

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

“in English but with that coarse, abusive style one encounters on American sites.” Hey, I am an American Redneck Construction worker, WTFs this ‘abusive style’?
but anyway – I notice the girl in the top picture with her sign ‘White People Must Do More’, which immediately brings to mind one of the real literary Greats, Kipling. (who was an actual savant – he could write perfect epic poetry spontaneously – at 14 he had a book published of his epic Poems, he became a journalist at 16!! So Kipling would agree perfectly with the girl, and expressed it in his famous poem: ‘The White Man’s Burden’ http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_burden.htm I will not give the moderation a heart attack by printing it here, but give a link.

Eric Sheldon
Eric Sheldon
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

The White Saviour complex

James Newman
James Newman
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

I lived in the beautiful village of Burwash, in a cottage, named after a Kipling book, on the ridge overlooking Batemans, where Kipling lived for a large part of his life. The inside of the house is almost as he left it, books, papers, photos, bedrooms, car in garage, tins of paint. All frozen in time, a snapshot of the man.

Michael James
Michael James
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Quite so. These progressives accuse other people of being guilty, as if doing so absolves them from that guilt.

Terry M
Terry M
3 years ago
Reply to  Michael James

Ah, this is the nub!
By accusing others of racism etc. one raises ones self morally to a higher level, at least in ones own eyes. When thousands of people are doing this together they are effectively creating a ‘higher’ moral class and the ‘deplorables.’ Self-righteousness run amok.

William Harvey
William Harvey
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

I think.they are doing it as a mating ritual…which is a shame because id rather they didn’t breed.

Frank Nixson
Frank Nixson
3 years ago
Reply to  Michael James

Exactly! It is non-virtuous virtue signaling.

Last edited 3 years ago by Frank Nixson
David Brown
David Brown
3 years ago
Reply to  Frank Nixson

Vicious virtue-signalling?

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  David Brown

Vice signalling?
If you look at the classic Seven Deadly Sins, they’re now all regarded by the left literally as virtues.

  1. Lust (unless heterosexual male)
  2. Gluttony
  3. Greed (as long as you’re in the public sector)
  4. Sloth
  5. Wrath
  6. Envy
  7. Pride
Gail Young
Gail Young
3 years ago
Reply to  Michael James

It’s quite a nifty ego defence mechanism, actually, requiring no intellectual effort or emotional investment whatsoever. Provides a total exemption of personal responsibility, reminiscent of Pontius Pilot.

Geoff Cooper
Geoff Cooper
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

I agree, but what causes this hatred? Is it as some have suggested a kind of mental contagion that our young are infected with at school, college and university? If so then teaching and academic staff must be the source of contagion, but why do they want to infect our children with guilt, shame and self-hatred – what is their desired outcome?
We know that feelings of guilt and shame in children and young people are the most profoundly emotionally and psychologically damaging of all feelings, so are neo-Marxist, west hating academics actually embarked upon a conscious program of psych-ops against the west’s youth, and therefore its future? I know it sounds paranoid but the evidence does seem to point in that direction.
If something like this really is being attempted then the left should beware, they may be sowing the seeds for reaction. The young are tough, and find ways of protecting themselves psychologically, as they mature they may very well start to form quite different attitudes.

Mark Backlund
Mark Backlund
3 years ago
Reply to  Geoff Cooper

I hate to say it, but sometimes guilt is an appropriate reaction. This discussion reminds me of what one of my fellow psychiatric residents described during our training. He was seeing HIS therapist and trying to get rid of the “guilt” he was feeling for repeatedly cheating on his girlfriend. After patiently talking their way around the various sources of his guilty feelings and how he could “handle” them, his therapist, in some exasperation, finally said “Avi, why don’t you just stop doing the things that make you feel guilty?” Hmmmmm

Wilfred Davis
Wilfred Davis
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Backlund

Sounds like an Eric Berne kinda guy.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Backlund

Whose guilt? For what?
Not aware the UK has been involved in any slave trade for 200 years – so that’s EIGHT generations. Do we hang people for their fathers’ crimes? Or do you think black people are guilty because their ancestors sold other black people into slavery? Where does it end?

Maurice Austin
Maurice Austin
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Backlund

Yikes! Your fellow psychiatric resident was actually doing the things he was feeling bad about, so his guilty feelings were indeed appropriate.
What we are talking about here – or have you missed it – is an entire civilization and entire race (whatever “race” is) being asked to feel guilt now over what other people did then. That is not at all appropriate.
I am an Australian whose non-English-speaking dirt-poor virtual-slave ancestor was packed up and exiled to the other side of the world….by the government of my OTHER ancestral half, who happily arrived as free settlers. Should “Irish” me rage against and hate “Welsh/English” me? Should “Welsh” me rage against my thirteenth-century English ancestors? Should the English in me feel guilty about any of this at all?
Nope.

Susan Johnson
Susan Johnson
3 years ago
Reply to  Geoff Cooper

Yes, the young always rebel against accepted norms, so if the views of the left become the norm in schools and universities, give it ten years and there may be a reaction. I hope so, anyway.. Thank God I’m retired, I have a house full of books collected over fifty years, they can’t cancel my culture. In fact I have every intention of cancelling theirs. No new academic books for me, unless I know I can trust the author, usually over a certain age.. I switch off all woke programmes on TV as well.. If I could cancel the BBC Licence fee, I would.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Could not agree more. Some of my family are lefty liberals and they are completely driven be hate which seems motivated by the fact that society has denied them the status and position they believe they so richly deserve.

Mark Backlund
Mark Backlund
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Speaking as a “center-left” liberal in the U.S.A., the “mental infirmity” the far right is demonstrating in our country is, well, staggering. The conspiracy theories have almost become mainstream-right, and the right’s “power-at-any-cost” is destroying our ability to work together, compromise, and achieve the “golden mean” for which successful countries strive. Yes, we “liberals” can get “fringey”, radical, hateful, and be completely unrealistic. So the only solution I see is for everyone to take honest looks at themselves in the mirror and each of us to “get off our high horses”.

Last edited 3 years ago by Mark Backlund
Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Backlund

First time I have seen someone from the US identify as centre left in quite a while. Most centre left are so repulsed by the venom, racism, double standards and illogic of the progressive/woke/hard left, that they are embarrassed to admit it or are voting elsewhere.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lesley van Reenen
Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
3 years ago

The Left has A LOT to answer for over the past 5 years especially. Not a party worth considering again. Nancy Pelosi has single-handedly trashed the country to oblivion.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
3 years ago
Reply to  Cathy Carron

‘You’ should deal with her the way you dealt with the late Ethel Rosenberg.

chris sullivan
chris sullivan
3 years ago

Lesley if we DONT have alternative views on unherd we become just another echo chamber and therefore of limited value – because it maybe just possible that unherd’s members become too homogeneous to have meaningful conversations vs merely get it off your chest rants- and that would be a great shame cos we cant be sure that we do in fact ‘know it all’.

John Gleeson
John Gleeson
3 years ago

People like Mark derive a massive self of importance, smugness, pride from their delusional politic outlook, which is based on absolute BS. He’s too far gone to have any self-awareness.

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Backlund

Oh Dear look, yes take your suggestion and look in the mirror. No party has made such a grab for power in the past 5 years than have the USA Democrats; two faux impeachments, the unjust skinning of Supreme Court Justice Cavanaugh, the complete falseness of the Russia hoax/Steele Dosssier, the media’s deep sixing of Hunter Biden and his father’s corrupt involvement in the Ukraine and China (which is leaking out on a daily basis), the Charlottesville ‘fine people’ hoax, Speaker Nancy Pelosi tearing up the President’s State of the Union address (Yes, I took that very personally – to the core of what I feel as an American and she trashed our traditions)…and on and on and on. The Democrat Party is rotten through and through.

Last edited 3 years ago by Cathy Carron
Robbie PPC
Robbie PPC
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

“My point is that these typically empty liberals were not driven by guilt. They were driven by hate, and I think that is also true of the liberal-left here.”

Hate and a cowardly but intense resentment that fuels a near-masturbatory desire to provoke and vicariously experience violence against their chosen outgroups, particularly in the Anglosphere against the white working class and against Jews.

Elizabeth dSJ
Elizabeth dSJ
3 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Left thought, as Scruton noted, is characterized by an omnipresent oikophobia.
Preference for novelty becomes hatred of the familiar.
This liberal dissident Hungarians hate Hungary and those who wish to preserve the historical Hungarian people.

John Gleeson
John Gleeson
3 years ago

”Minorities” in the sense we know them today have been here 60 years odd? I wish they’d just f*** off with their gobshite to be honest. It’s a venal, repulsive, self-serving, racist power grab, pretending it’s ‘white supremacy’ in the sense of an inherent racist attitude in white people, and not because this has been a white nation for 1000’s of years, and a highly successful, industrious, forward thinking one.
It’s not just white liberals, it’s hordes of resentful, inferiority-complex, jealous, racist a-hole ‘POC’ pushing their obnoxious narrative on all white people and accusing them of having oppressed them and held them down.

It’s so utterly mental. They should just be honest. Even if Britain had never had any dealings with their country, most of those countries would still have the struggles they do.

We badly need people to stand up to this madness who aren’t far-right.

Steve Moxon
Steve Moxon
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

Well said.

Michelle Johnston
Michelle Johnston
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

cf South Africa. What is so interesting is they know things are wrong and they know its there fault now. It just needs South Africans to realise its not a choice of forward (which it is actually not) or back ward (which would never happen) its better more competent leadership at all levels that is needed. In other words its just like the rest of us. When we start concentrating on the important things like you know better education, a realistic attitude toward health and social care and all the other matters which ACTUALLY mean something to ordinary people who have not got a large part of their anatomy up …..

Last edited 3 years ago by Michelle Johnston
kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago

Today’s fun story is a junior school where parents have sent their children with Palestinian flag painted on their hands.Teacher asks them to wash it off-thousand + sign petition demanding teacher be sacked and police say ‘We absolutely understand and respect that people have the right to a peaceful protest’.This is giving in to an over-entitled group of people , who I am struggling to find anything good to say about. You shouldn’t bring your politics or religion into an ordinary secular school.If newcomers ( defined as first or second generation people who originated outside Europe) are not happy here there are whole continents for people to choose to move to.

Fred Atkinstalk
Fred Atkinstalk
3 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

I wonder what the police response would be if you sent your children to school with an Israeli flag painted on their hands.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago

Lock up the parents & take away their children-for committing a hate crime

Gordon Chamberlain
Gordon Chamberlain
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

I agree entirely.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

I see the Censor has erased our brief conversation about William Dunbar.
What a pity!

John Gleeson
John Gleeson
3 years ago

Did they? Pfft. Mods tend to be overzealous by nature I suppose.

Dhimmitude Ishere
Dhimmitude Ishere
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

Beyond the “hordes of resentful, inferiority-complex, jealous, racist a-hole ‘POC’” there are, of course, a host of decent, law-abiding, hard working and successful black people who loathe being characterised as victims and being lumped in with low lifes like George Floyd and, what I always think of as his British equivalent from a few years back, Mark Duggan.

Unfortunately, they’re not given a voice in the media who simply wouldn’t be able to deal with somebody like an ex-colleague of mine who:
a. refused to participate in Black History Month despite constant pressure from the all white Diversity team as he felt it was divisive;
b. was contemptuous of minor historical figures being promoted to the status of latter day saints holding that the longer black people were here and moved into positions of prominence then they would produce individuals worthy of recognition;
c. resented being co-opted onto interview panels to demonstrate the organisation’s inclusive credentials holding that he trusted his colleagues whatever their colour to make fair and proper judgements.

Entirely admirable in my view and I suspect actually a more widespread view than may be thought but simply doesn’t fit the narrative, does it?

Last edited 3 years ago by Dhimmitude Ishere
Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

Henry Jackson Society is Non-PC organisation which opposes ”Cancel kultur”

Susan Johnson
Susan Johnson
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

White working class men in this country did not even have the vote until the late nineteenth, early twentieth century, let alone women, so how is it all white people are to blame? Sickening.

Jake C
Jake C
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

Quite right.i used to be proud of UK multiracialness….but the sheer hostility and resentment they harbour (check out UK black twitter) despite being personally well off and successful is just unreasonable.

Most of them love and agree with Shola Mos-Shogbamimu, Kehinde Andrews,Priyamvada Gopal,Afua Hirsch.

If we had no racial diversity then we could focus on our actual problems like fixing the pockets of socio-economic deprivation across the country, investment in infrastructure, investing in R&D and rewilding,fixing the housing crisis etc etc

joycebrette
joycebrette
3 years ago
Reply to  John Gleeson

Round of applause, finally some sanity.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago

‘Are there logical reasons to hold the West to higher standards of justice? Its wealth is certainly one, since it is easier to enforce the rule of law, respect human rights and create a generally more equitable society when you have the resources to do so.’
Perhaps it is precisely because the rule of law is enforced, and human rights respected, that Western societies are more equitable. I suspect this argument is too subtle for the writer. Then of course there is obligatory dig at Trump;
‘Trumpesquely, that from now on: “No more morals or values. We will simply use our military and economic power to ruthlessly pursue our interests.’
As the writer points out, it was Bush, Blair and others who invaded Iraq and various other places. Trump cam to power partly because he called for an end to all this. And that was one of the reasons why the media, the Military Industrial Complex and the establishment politicians took him down.
All in all, another nonsense article that belongs in the Guardian.

barbara neil
barbara neil
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

couldn’t agree more! I got the impression the writer was attempting to hide his bias under his skirts in order to make it more palatable for the right-wingers he expected to read this.All in all, simplistic and condescending.

Janice Mermikli
Janice Mermikli
3 years ago
Reply to  barbara neil

Or they can always return to the countries from which their ancestors came, rather than damning the West with faint praise.
The West does not need them.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago

Where they can really make a difference and live what the preach away from the malignant influence of evil whitey

Alan Tonkyn
Alan Tonkyn
3 years ago
Reply to  barbara neil

I think this is a very unfair appraisal of a balanced and sensible article. Adekoya makes precisely the point that non-western societies have injustices and inequalities which need to be acknowledged and that we should be willing to applaud the relative fairness and tolerance of Western countries, rather than indulge in injurious self-hatred.

Geoffrey Hoppe
Geoffrey Hoppe
3 years ago
Reply to  Alan Tonkyn

Agreed. I found the article perceptive and honest

chris sullivan
chris sullivan
3 years ago
Reply to  Alan Tonkyn

hang on in there Alan and thanks for keeping this a debate rather than a homogenized spleen vent

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

I think you may have that the wrong way round. It is the fact that the UK had viable and coherent laws, that were fairly applied by an independent judiciary (at least until Blair), that created the conditions for wealth creation. if you cannot be sure that the law will safeguard what you have worked to legally achieve it drives a different kind of behaviour. Look at the wealth in Russia and China.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Yup. I stopped reading after a few paragraphs and turned to these comments – far more rational and/or interesting.

Last edited 3 years ago by Jos Haynes
Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

It’s simply that Western values have managed over time to create cultures that have prospered. Now all have the time to indulge in self criticism they can afford to squander that prosperity. Some create others destroy, lets hope the creators can stay ahead.

David Lawler
David Lawler
3 years ago

Progressives think of themselves as the master race, the rest of us, especially the white working class as untermensh.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
3 years ago
Reply to  David Lawler

They are also seem to be not remotely interested in outcomes.
Every time they demonstrate their contempt for the working class, their chances of getting into power (to make any changes) just recede further into the distance.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago
Reply to  Ian Barton

I think its this contempt which is the key. XR protests in Nottingham prevented a man getting to see his dying father. A female protester said she was sorry rather unconvincingly-then showed pictures of her travels around the world which is ,saying’ who cares about you you old pleb , I had a fab time & I was saving the world! I presume their ancesters would knock over a peasant child with their carriage and then throw a few pence towards the parent in compensation

Mark Backlund
Mark Backlund
3 years ago
Reply to  David Lawler

Not true, David, at least not for this liberal/progressive (not sure of the difference, either!) and those I know personally. In private conversations between “us libs”, it’s almost always about trying to stand up for the “unspoken”, the so-called “voiceless” or the “powerless”. This can range from those of different ethnicities, to endangered species, endangered ecosystems, and sometimes, yes, “working class” people who are being screwed over by their employers, thus the support for union.
Yes, we can be overly soft-hearted, impractical, and, yes, can get angry when we see what appears to be abuse by the â€œĂŒbermensch” (German for “Overman”, “Superman”, “Beyond-man”) of whatever â€œĂŒntermensch (German for “subhumans”, used by Nazi’s to describe Jews and Slavs). The farther fringes of this left spectrum can and do get crazy, destructive, and thus become, in my opinion, quite counter-productive. But you will surely admit that we don’t have a monopoly on destructive fringe behavior or attitudes.

Alan Girling
Alan Girling
3 years ago

One of the far-reaching and really terrible consequences of the West’s self-hatred, coming from progressives and environmentalists in particular, is an indifference to actual lives and living conditions of those populations still living in absolute poverty. They self-flagellate over climate change, fossil fuels, the rapacity of industrial capitalism, colonialism, etc. demanding that it all be stopped and overturned, thus denying over a billion people the chance to develop themselves industrially or economically and rise out of poverty. Of course they think they are ‘right’ and ‘good,’ in their cafes, electric cars and universities, choices afforded only to them.

douglasscedwards
douglasscedwards
3 years ago
Reply to  Alan Girling

If we really are going to carry on insisting that all industries must become “green” then we, as a developed nation, should be helping these countries to create the industry they need cleanly.

Terry M
Terry M
3 years ago

All of the green industries are more expensive than conventional technologies. Every one. It is only by mandates and incentives that they are pursued. And who pays for these incentives? The masses, of course. So relatively poorer people are paying for the moral preening of the privileged rich.
Let them eat cake has been replaced by “Let them buy over-priced green fuels.”

Bertie B
Bertie B
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

Generally speaking all new “fuels” are more expensive than what they replace, regardless of their cleanliness.
Wood -> Coal -> Gas -> Nuclear
Green fuels are the only ones that stand a chance at being cheaper. Sub-saharan countries do not need to buy fuel – they have plenty of sunlight. They need help with accessing technology to harness it.

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

Generally speaking all new “fuels” are more expensive than what they replace

Balls.

Terry M
Terry M
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

Not exactly. Oil replaced wood and coal because it was cheaper – mining coal is more expensive than pumping oil – and more convenient (liquid vs solid). Green fuels will only be cheaper when oil/gas/coal are in fact running out. Maybe 50, 100, 200 years? Who knows? We’ve passed numerous ‘peak oil’ dates already. And whither nuclear? Properly employed it could be inexpensive.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

Really Solar Panels only last 10-15 years,Are Toxic,Cannot be recycled how do you justify such lies/?.Made of Fossil fuels..

David Hartlin
David Hartlin
3 years ago
Reply to  Robin Lambert

Really? Then why a standard 25 year warranty? Even after 25 years they still work.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  David Hartlin

Yes Companies Do Go bust before Warranty is up..Please tell how they are recycled??..

joycebrette
joycebrette
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

You help them then, I’m sure you can get a few of your chums to tip up too.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

Solar panels ARE NOT Green, they contain minimum of 8 Toxins,Cant be recycled.but Senile biden Wants to Jet in here (UK) to tell uK we will be back of the globalist Queue

Susan Johnson
Susan Johnson
3 years ago
Reply to  Alan Girling

Ignoring modern slavery in places like China and the treatment of women in places like Nigeria, in the process..

Alan Girling
Alan Girling
3 years ago
Reply to  Susan Johnson

The blindness to China is the most baffling to me. Almost like the apologists for the Soviet Union in the 1930s. Nothing to see here. Breaking a few eggs is all.

Niobe Hunter
Niobe Hunter
3 years ago

I’m afraid the author is falling into the customary trap of ignoring agency in social and financial status. British Bangladeshi families have a very low percentage of working women, so do not have the dual income resource of many white and other Asian families. (Of course, they can apply for unemployment benefit, but that involves pretending to be ready to work , which would in turn mean going outside the home). Black American households have seen an overall decline in average financial resource since the last century, mainly due to family breakdown. Where the illegitimacy rate is high, family income (an oxymoron) is low.
I think the Swedish figures for emergence from poverty will be greatly changed by the economic competence of the families of the new citizenry, too.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago
Reply to  Niobe Hunter

google IQ by nation……

Mark Preston
Mark Preston
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

If you’re brave enough.

Janice Mermikli
Janice Mermikli
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Some of the low-IQ results could be due to endogamy. There are societies and communities where cousin marriage is the norm and in which low IQs, as well as inherited diseases and conditions, are quite common.

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago

Whether they’re stupid because they’re stupid or stupid because they’re inbred, they’re still stupid, right?
Who cares why they’re stupid?

Glyn Reed
Glyn Reed
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Inter-family marriage does not help improve things either mentally or physically for many unfortunate people – that is why consanguinity was outlawed for those intending to get married centuries ago but seems to have a free pass these days.

Bertie B
Bertie B
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Why? Theres no surprise in the results, those countries with the worst education systems have the lowest IQs.
Not sure what that tells us?

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

That they have the worst education systems because they have the lowest IQs?
Stupid is as stupid does.

chris sullivan
chris sullivan
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

simplistic-you have it the wrong way around. Corrupt and repressive regimes want their people to remain functionally stupid so they they can maintain their nasty little kingdoms- in exactly the same way that slaves in the southern US states were not allowed books in case they learned to read-and that their functional IQ’s might go up-to the detriment of that nasty kingdom….

chris sullivan
chris sullivan
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

what it tells us is that environment and societal norms affect functional IQ more than any racial differences-that the brain needs to learn how to think and problem solve etc-it is innate but at a comparatively lesser level and needs lots of PRACTICE – unfortunately not much avaialble in many cultures

Mark Preston
Mark Preston
3 years ago
Reply to  Niobe Hunter

So the whole thing is that it doesn’t take 5 generations – it takes a decent IQ and a willingness to work. Also let’s not forget that it may be the case that those with a higher IQ than average for their ethnic group may emigrate elsewhere so we could actually be harming countries by letting their best and brightest come here and leave the remainder to flounder.

Janice Mermikli
Janice Mermikli
3 years ago
Reply to  Niobe Hunter

There is a lot of cousin intermarriage in the Bangladeshi communities.

elaine chambers
elaine chambers
3 years ago
Reply to  Niobe Hunter

It is not possible to compete in a modern economy if you keep half of you religious/cultural group just for breeding purposes.

krsudworth
krsudworth
3 years ago

I’m a white working class guy in the north. I rent, I have no savings, but I have a fairly decent car, but that’s about it. My total asset value is less than £20,000. I bet there’s a hell of a lot of other ethnic groups in the UK that are better off than me. Statistics don’t always tell the whole story.

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
3 years ago
Reply to  krsudworth

Same, but my total asset value (ie, what I would be able to liquidate at a pawn shop or sell online) is less than ÂŁ5k.

Tony Nunn
Tony Nunn
3 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

At the risk of sounding like someone from the Yorkshiremen Sketch, I suspect mine is close to zero.

tony g.
tony g.
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Nunn

I started out with nothing, and I’ve still got most of it left.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

But how old are you and krsudworth? I was 35 before I had ÂŁ1k as a house deposit, and my cars of the time cost ÂŁ50-100. Yes, a pound then was worth a lot more than a pound today (11x according to the RPI series 1947-2021), so I guess that equates to ÂŁ12k today. Wealth (in the financial sense) accumulation is difficult with a young family. In my experience, one only starts to accumulate wealth from one’s mid 50s, when one’s income is higher and family outgoings lower.

Young people who complain about lack of money don’t get any sympathy from me. They have their youth & energy. What more do they need? I’d swap any day.

Susan Johnson
Susan Johnson
3 years ago
Reply to  Jos Haynes

Where does the author of this article get his figures from? I would guess that the average wealth in areas where housing is priced lower, and wages lower, such as in parts of the north, would be much less.

Bertie B
Bertie B
3 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

What about your assets that you can’t pawn or sell online?

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

Nobody wants his false teeth

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
3 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

They might fit someone….

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
3 years ago

Yesterday I discovered that the University of Minnesota offers a 12 step program to recover from whiteness, as all whites are responsible for white supremacy. If you deny being racist, that is immediate evidence that you ARE racist. Compelling stuff. #doingmywork

Janice Mermikli
Janice Mermikli
3 years ago

Unbelievable! What planet are those people on, or rather, what drugs?!

Evan Hadkins
Evan Hadkins
3 years ago

Being unconscious of privilege is real.

Mikey Mike
Mikey Mike
3 years ago
Reply to  Evan Hadkins

Evan, how is it real and in what ways does it manifest to deleterious effect?

Bertie B
Bertie B
3 years ago
Reply to  Evan Hadkins

Yup – just look at all those BLM campaigners.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
3 years ago
Reply to  Evan Hadkins

Most of us are quite intelligent and knowledgeable enough to figure privilege out.

Fred Dibnah
Fred Dibnah
3 years ago
Reply to  Evan Hadkins

And sometimes seen on this forum.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Evan Hadkins

Yeh Now go &Emigrate to Africa ..

joycebrette
joycebrette
3 years ago
Reply to  Evan Hadkins

And you’re not, get your head out of your a**e

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago

let me guess – a program created by white people who are craven enough to cash in on this noxious trend. Worse, they are likely to have no shortage of willing customers.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

Yes it appears so. Plenty of handmaidens and footmen.

Jake C
Jake C
3 years ago

USA sounds like fun.

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago

This was a good article generally, but when the author writes

wouldn’t we be emboldening the white supremacists who claim that Western civilization is superior to others?

The problem is that in the article he has written, he has shown pretty conclusively that Western civilisation is superior to others. To turn the argument around, what in the picture presented shows that it’s worse?
This sort of intellectualised denial of reality comes up time and time again whenever some unpalatable contention from “racists” turns out to be completely accurate. Black youths do carry out most muggings; there really are Asian rape gangs in cities; and so on. If all these things actually are true, why is it acceptable to deny them – and to allow the continuing criminality – solely on the grounds that do so might encourage the wrong sort of racist?

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

and why does the claim signal white supremacy? That term wasn’t even being used until this orange guy was elected to White House and it’s the political version of Sasquatch – a lot of people believe in its existence, a few have claimed sightings, but there is next to no evidence of it.
The plain fact is the supply of racism or supremacy fails to meet the demand for either.

Mikey Mike
Mikey Mike
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

I’m from middle-Tennessee. I’ve never met a white supremacist. Never ever. I worked for twenty years in the construction trades and would occasionally encounter the word n***** thrown around without much thought. I suppose that’s racist. But the men who unselfconsciously used the term tended to be poor with a criminal record, unpaid alimony, an old truck with plastic over the passenger-side window, untreated substance abuse issues, etc. In other words, not the kind of people endowed with a great deal of power, certainly not the power to oppress minorities. They were the kind of men who could scarcely summon the power to renew the tags on their truck before they were pulled over and jailed on a bench warrant. The weirder thing, to me anyway, was that these guys seemed to have the best natural rapport with black people. They were – in their thick country (i.e. southern) accents – all about “yes ma’am, no ma’am,” face-to-face very kind and polite to southern blacks. It reminds me of a line Sydney Pollack delivered in the movie Michael Clayton: “humans are f****** incomprehensible.”

gav.green
gav.green
3 years ago

One reason for wealth and income disparity between different groups is alluded to by the author himself:

“ For social mobility, OECD analysis suggest that if you’re born into a poor family in Sweden, it would take you three generations to reach the average national income; in Canada it would take four generations, in Britain five.”

Large scale immigration to many European countries is a fairly recent phenomenon and in the U.K. began in the 60s. So most immigrants are either first or second generation, so by the author’s own admission you would expect it to take another 3 or 4 generations to achieve average wealth and income in the U.K.. What is noticeable is how quickly Indian groups have reached the same yardstick in the U.K. and the US.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
Reply to  gav.green

‘So most immigrants are either first or second generation, so by the author’s own admission you would expect it to take another 3 or 4 generations to achieve average wealth and income in the U.K.’
Exactly. But don’t expect any reason or competent analysis from the academic and media classes. They operate at an astonishingly low level, for the most part.

Simon Davies
Simon Davies
3 years ago
Reply to  gav.green

That’s because many Indian immigrants are professionals themselves. When you have high achieving immigrants who don’t assimilate however it brings its own issues. These people tend to become over-represented in politics and there is the danger that they put their own ethnic interests first. An example would be Priti Patel in her role as Home Secretary signing an agreement recently with the Indian government that favoured Indian immigrants. See the so-called ‘Migration and Mobility Partnership’.

Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
3 years ago
Reply to  gav.green

I think this is something that deserves more explicit discussion around these issues, because it often isn’t obvious to people. Maybe because we tend to push this idea that if only you work hard you can achieve the highest levels of wealth. Which can be true, but in many cases it does take a few generations for a family to work their way up from the bottom to the comfortable middle classes. You can literally see this, if you look, when you see the difference between families that have arrived with money or even just professional qualifications, and ones that have arrived with neither – the former quickly join the middle classes and the latter not so quickly.
I also think that the American situation complicates things and a lot of racial justice theory comes out of the US. It can be more difficult for families to get ahead there because of the costs related to health and higher education – in fact these things both contribute to American families that have been there for generations slipping down from the middle classes. And they also have a black population that has struggled to some extent to enter the middle classes over many generations – or at least that’s the public perception though in reality the story is more complicated.
But I really do think that a clearheaded discussion of the fact that class movement upwards, whatever your race, takes several generations, would be helpful.And it would then be possible to have clearheaded discussions of what kinds of measures might facilitate that.

Dorothy Slater
Dorothy Slater
3 years ago

It may take a few generations for a family to work their way from the bottom to the comfortable middle class but it takes less than a generation to fall out of it My father owned a small store in a small town with a very small profit and was able to send three kids to college, buy a house, clothe and feed us all and buy a car. All without my mother working outside the home .
I have two master degree’s , worked all of my life but unfortunately in one of paying “helping” profession and would not call myself middle class in any sense of the word. I rent, have no car, and have enough money to last until I am 100 so I am told. As a result I have nothing to leave to my two adult children or 4 grandchildren who will never see the middle class I have to remind myself that compared to others in the world I am extremely fortunate to have what I have even as I associate with all of my much better off friends.

Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
3 years ago
Reply to  Dorothy Slater

Any one individual can move into a different class, up or down, in a generation. Some families never move in either direction over 20 generations.
Statistical information about groups doesn’t work in individual cases like that.
You are right, a middle class person may, for any number of reasons, fall into the working class, or poverty, in one generation. It’s also the case though that a middle class person is more likely to have savings, or family, or disability benefits, that prevent them falling into poverty, compared to someone who is a member of the precariat.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago

Rubbish. I started with nothing and now I am one of the middle classes (in wealth, not in thinking).

Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
3 years ago
Reply to  Jos Haynes

Usually we don’t consider one person a demographic.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago

The population is made up of individuals, all of whom regard themselves as individuals, not as part of the amorphous crowd that you think is doomed/destined to a certain outcome by dint of its family background. Mind you, someone that thinks that DNA plays a big part in one’s success/failure might agree with you, but these people are called racists these days, so they keep their heads down.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago

I believe most of the great and good things in the world cane From Europeans. Science, education systems, Rule of Just Law, great literature and art, medicine, industry, end of slavery, suffrage, institutional charity, Equality under Law, Freedom, Democracy……

I feel no self loathing at all, I am proud of my society.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

But do you not think that everyone knows this and that this is the cause of the resentment.

Peter LR
Peter LR
3 years ago

Using household wealth is a misleading datum. If 2 neighbours are both teachers and have the same income but one household has no children and the other 4 then the larger household appears less wealthy: but by choice not by fiat or discrimination. The article ignores the social impacts which create poverty that the Sewell report highlighted.
The generation timeline is strange. From a council house household of 7 on one wage with no car all of us attained average income in a single generation. None of us have divorced and all were industrious: Britain gave us the opportunity.

Bertie B
Bertie B
3 years ago
Reply to  Peter LR

I would like to point out that by almost all measures, 2 neighbours on the same income will appear precisly as wealthy as each other.
This is because income and total asset value are the predominant measures of wealth, as the house is likely the majority of their asset value and they are neighbours their houses will likely be almost equal.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

Not so. The 60 yr old will not have a mortgage – the 25 yr old will have a vast one. Age and years of saving are an important factor.

D Ward
D Ward
3 years ago
Reply to  Jos Haynes

But what all the youngsters forget is that house prices wouldn’t be sky-high if we hadn’t had 10 million people come to live in Britain in the last 25 years

Mark Preston
Mark Preston
3 years ago

I think most fair-minded Brits would agree there is a significant justice gap when it comes to race in the West.” – this entire paragraph was muddled. Are we talking about judicial parity, economic parity, what? If we’re talking about economic parity then are the faults within some ethnic groups more responsible for their position in society than some societal bias? If you want to go there let’s go there but let’s not pussyfoot around here Some groups do quite poorly because they have a lower average IQ and poor cultural attitudes.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

Social Justice? The catch all for wealth, privilege and opportunity.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

I think he meant it the other way rounds and that the justice system and equalities legislation gives the ethnic minorities in the country an in built advantage. I thin I will call it institutional racism

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago

A bit ironic how many people voluntarily move to the west. You’d think such a horrible place would be less attractive to these mostly brown and black people, yet here we are. Good faith argument is impossible with the people described in this article. They traffic in mindless talking points and no amount of data can shake their religious-like belief in the dogma they’ve been sold.
This group has convinced itself that first-world problems are existential threats. Women have access their grandmothers never had, yet we’re told rape culture abounds and life is a veritable handmaid’s tale. Being black is far more likely to be a benefit – especially to someone educated and qualified – but you’d think this was still the land of Jim Crow.
The West is not perfect but perhaps someone can show the society that is. I’ll wait. Is it the places where Muslims kill Muslims, behead infidels, and treat women like chattel? Is it the nations where tribal warfare persists and nations are ruled by different versions of dictators? Maybe it’s the ones where the level of poverty makes the Western of it look like luxury?
The worst lies are the ones people tell themselves. The seemingly incessant desire to hold the present accountable for the past is a weapons-grade psychosis. Life here has become very comfortable; to be in the West today is to be among the top 1% of all people who have ever lived, and much of the left is mad about that. There is no reasoning with that mentality and less point in trying.

Iliya Kuryakin
Iliya Kuryakin
3 years ago

“I think most fair-minded Brits would agree there is a significant justice gap when it comes to race in the West.”
I disagree.

Stewart B
Stewart B
3 years ago

Could we get a list with a comprehensive set of specific demands that if met we can consider the matter of racial inequality resolved? It could be a list of reparations, it could be a specific set of metrics that would unequivocally indicate there is no racial discrimination. Can they define a specific end goal which when reached we can agree we are good?
I suspect not. I suspect (a) they couldn’t agree amongst themselves, (b) if they came up with a list it would be an abomination and would show what a nasty bunch they are (c) they never want it to be over because all this BLM stuff confers power, which is what it’s’ really about.

Geoffrey Simon Hicking
Geoffrey Simon Hicking
3 years ago
Reply to  Stewart B

(c) they never want it to be over

We are reaching the point where you could apologise and give reparations and they would hate it as we would then be forgiven by whoever we paid. Can’t make us hate ourselves if we’re forgiven!

Francis MacGabhann
Francis MacGabhann
3 years ago

The problem is “progressivism/liberalism” and its various incarnations. It was always a racist proposition going back to its earliest days at the start of the 20th century. It is not at all a coincidence that eugenics was a progressive idea and the “white guilt” we see today is just a modern morphing of the same thing. In the past, it was active racism in the sense that the liberal would openly claim that some races were inferior to others. Today it’s a more muted thing and takes the form alluded to in the article — that a higher standard is expected from white Europeans and Americans. Why? Because the cultural inheritance of the compassionate liberals tell them that some races are inferior to others, so what can you expect from them. Liberals never learn and they never change.

Last edited 3 years ago by Francis MacGabhann
Ian Barton
Ian Barton
3 years ago

Equally significantly, the progressives seem to think that slavery is also only a recent western phenomenon.
If this became more widely discussed, then organisations like BLM would also have to support cancelling the forebears of non-whites.

Last edited 3 years ago by Ian Barton
Neil MacInnes
Neil MacInnes
3 years ago

White people believing that the only way black people can improve their situation and that white people need to do more to assist the poor helpless blacks, is probably the most racist view there is.

John Riordan
John Riordan
3 years ago

“While some societies like Britain are fairer than others, there’s no use dancing around the fact that there persists an informal racial hierarchy positing white people at the top, black people at the bottom and everyone else somewhere in between.”

Really? Ask the Indians, Japanese and Chinese if that applies to them in the West, and you’ll find that they see themselves as above white people in this sense, and the fact that many white people seem not to have noticed proves nothing at all.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Alternatively, go to Japan or China and check out the hierarchies there. It’s almost like these things are not exclusive to any particular group.

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
3 years ago

“…its criminal invasion of Iraq (supported by Britain) which ended up causing immeasurable suffering for millions. And yet we know those who invaded will never be held to account…”

In Britain that would be Campbell and Blair. I still do not understand why these two criminals are still at large…one editing a successor to the Daily Sport and omnipresent on Social Media, the other trying to position himself for another foray in to UK politics and a go at the Labour leadership.
The criminal invasion of Iraq was supported and enabled in no small way by these two, and really have to be held largely culpable for the current situation here in the UK in regard to the regressive racial politics that abound.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

Exactly. Even worse, they are frequently given a platform by the BBC and the Guardian etc. But as I have often said, the UK is, in its own way, as corrupt and shameless as any country in the world.

Mikey Mike
Mikey Mike
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

.

Last edited 3 years ago by Mikey Mike
Steve Moxon
Steve Moxon
3 years ago

‘Progressives’ are NOT “blinded by their own guilt”! They are projecting their own hatred towards the masses on to the masses, to pretend the hate is from us towards them.
The ‘progressives’ — the true ‘deplorables’ — hate all of us for not buying from them their Marxist bull.
This is the basis of all ‘identity politics’, which began in embryo a century ago when central European Marxist intellectuals (ha!) deemed ‘the workers’ to have been ‘repressed’ (non-scientific Freudian hokum fashionable at the time) by a system of trade (huh?): ‘capitalism’. This utter nonsense is the beginning of contemporary feminism: the notion that the male ‘oppresses’ the rest of the family. Exported to the USA, the ‘new Left’ there co-opted the Civil Rights and Stonewall movements and consequently in Leftist ‘imagination’ — aka as low gut-level in-the-gutter kneejerk stupidity as you could possibly get — joining men as supposed generic ‘oppressors’ arrived ‘whites’ and heterosexuals.
It IS quite THAT appalling. It’s hardly “guilt”.

Last edited 3 years ago by Steve Moxon
George Bruce
George Bruce
3 years ago

These statistics that the author flings about look extremely questionable to me. Where is Chivers when you need him?
This one especially is a joke.

 a poor family in Sweden, it would take you three generations to reach the average national income; in Canada it would take four generations, in Britain five. In China, South Africa and Colombia, it would take seven, nine and 11 generations respectively

Assuming a generation is say 25 years, we are projecting 275 years into the future in the Colombian case, and 75 in the shortest, Swedish case. How the hell is this ever going to be verified?
Or is it the past we are calculating from? Sorry, reproducing bloody nonsense originally produced by someone else is not an excuse.
Overall, I think the article is rambling rubbish. Why not take one or two of the topics and discuss them, Mr. Adekoya? More than difficult enough. This scattergun approach does not work. And maybe no numbers if you are not able to handle them?

Alan Tonkyn
Alan Tonkyn
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

Yes, good point about the generation stat.s in relation to wealth. I thought the article was mainly sensible, actually, but it had its weaknesses, and this was one of them. How on earth WOULD you verify those generation-into-income figures?

Kevin Thomas
Kevin Thomas
3 years ago

Look who this rhetoric is coming from. It comes overwhelmingly from the children of wealthy parents who have attended exclusive schools and gone on to universities. I think it’s personal guilt over being so privileged, and they prefer to think of their privilege as being down to their race or some historical injustice because that makes it easier to deal with. After all, you can’t really be blamed for being white or being born in the West. You can atone for these things by just mouthing platitudes about your whiteness or starting a hashtag. If your privilege was because your parents are rich and we live in a country with virtually no social mobility, then it might occur to someone to ask you to make some real sacrifices in favour of the less well off, which for all their moralising, these people won’t. Name one prominent leftist who has let their children go to an ordinary school and take their chances based purely on merit.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Kevin Thomas

Brainwashing Like believing Mankind, ,NOT the Sun,solar Flares control Our Weather….

Toby Josh
Toby Josh
3 years ago

“ the massive wealth and resultant power disparities that have emerged between racial groups over the past 500 years, including as a result of slavery and colonialism.” surely being able to establish such a hegemony indicates some kind of superiority, by definition?

mike otter
mike otter
3 years ago

I think the article is good but misses a point that only a small part of the west hates the rest of the west. They are the same sort people who hated their native countries so allied with USSR and NSDAP in the day. I think its more to do with their own mental state and possible negative experiences in life. I notice that very few people hate their countrymen in say Texas, Spain or Greece just to pick a random bunch. Its prevalent in UK/blue state US/ANZAC and i think to a lesser extend Germany & Scandinavia.

Last edited 3 years ago by mike otter
Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  mike otter

This cohort makes up for its relative lack of size by being loud.

Alex Wilkinson
Alex Wilkinson
3 years ago

My belief is that the West is suffering under one huge psychological hangup or barrier – the fear that it might be ‘racist’.
The less mature minds are so afraid of ‘going there’ within themselves, to see what’s really there about race, that they create an area of unconsciousness within and without themselves in which this demon grows.
The sheer terror that they might be racist.
Because, after all, they’re well-meaning people who don’t want to be mean towards people that they secretly regard as less fortunate (patronising attitude).
The problem is that by denying this fear they feel compelled to constantly signal that they are not this thing – to assure themselves as much as anyone else – and being too afraid to face the reality behind it, they create a desperate and fascistic outlook that is ultimately unwarranted, sentimental and profoundly self-defeating.

Last edited 3 years ago by Alex Wilkinson
Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
3 years ago

Speak for yourself. I don’t hate the West at all I think it’s great.

Daniel Björkman
Daniel Björkman
3 years ago

It is also paradoxical to hold today’s progressive position that it is racist for Western societies to think themselves more “advanced” while simultaneously holding them to higher standards of justice than others.

I agree, but what if I’m willing to bite the bullet and say that yes, I do think that Western civilisation is the greatest civilisation that is or ever has been, and that therefore we have to hold ourselves to the very highest standards and practice constant self-discipline in living up to our ideals? I don’t like shrill progressives much, and I especially don’t like their performative self-loathing, but I do agree with them that what we practice should be brought in line with what we preach.

daniel Earley
daniel Earley
3 years ago

I would like to see questions asked comparing western civilisations and their impact all the way from the Greeks, Romans, Holy Roman Empire, French, British etc with non-western including Persian, Indian, African, Aztec, Inca, Islamic Empire (including the Caliphate 790-1258). I would hazard a guess that each has pluses and minuses, certainly some of the building in Spain from the Islamic Empire are beautiful and incredible works of culture and art. The book, “Prisoners of Geography: Ten Maps That Tell You Everything You Need To Know About Global” by Tim Marshall offers an excellent viewpoint.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago

What is it that we are failing to practice? Europeans are not flocking to Middle Eastern countries and Americans are not rushing southward into Central and South America. The people who come our way are far more likely to get hospitable treatment than in the reverse scenario. And this references LEGAL immigration where the newcomer bothers to learn the language and fit into society, neither of which is a high bar.

Eleanor Barlow
Eleanor Barlow
3 years ago

‘I don’t like shrill progressives much, and I especially don’t like their performative self-loathing, but I do agree with them that what we practice should be brought in line with what we preach.’

I don’t like them either. But I have to say that so-called progressives are the worst when it comes to practising what they preach. They are sanctimonious hypocrites. Their attitude towards people who voted for Brexit is appallingly bigoted, as is their attitude towards the white working class.

Eleanor Barlow
Eleanor Barlow
3 years ago

It’s only a small number of people that subscribe to this obsession with hating all things western. Unfortunately they have disproportionately big gobs that are quick to shout down others that disagree with their views. The majority of people barely think of it at all, except when some disaster makes them feel lucky to have not been born in a 3rd world country.
Mostly, people just take it for granted which carries its own risks – that apathy and/or complacency results in our countries being dragged down to the level of a 3rd world country.
As for racism – that exists in every country. Britain is no worse than some and better than most when it comes to track record. It has certainly progressed significantly as compared with what I remember growing up in the 60s and 70s. It’s not perfect and probably never will be, but that’s life.
Lefties have trouble accepting the world as it is and not as they would like it to be.

Last edited 3 years ago by Eleanor Barlow
elaine chambers
elaine chambers
3 years ago

I often steal an aspect from Rawls ‘A Theory of Justice’. Forgive me John R. Here it comes. Imagine you are a pre-foetus and you have been called upon to be sent to a human uterus somewhere on Planet Earth of which having been there before you have great knowledge. Before you are sent, you have been given some degree of agency, then all is erased. All you know is that you are going to be female, that in itself is a worry. You don’t know if you’re going to be rich or poor, abled or disabled back or white, but you can choose where you will be born. Anyone female would without doubt and in full knowledge of the odds against her especially if she is going to be black or brown would chose to be born in a Western country. Be she black or white, her chance of having freedom and an education, of not being killed at birth, or genitally mutilated, force into marriage, or child marriage, ‘honourably’ killed, or being permanently pregnant is greatly reduced by taking the gamble of being born in the West. That’s why I despise this overt derogatory reference to ‘White men’ . Yes, they have much to learn, they haven’t yet managed to overcome their fear of women taking over, let alone their other fears, but compared to the black man and the brown man they are doing much better. What the back and brown man does to control and dominate women and girls is a human rights horror story. Please don’t respond by telling me of lovely black and brown men, I know quite a few and they are as horrified as I am about this dreadful truth.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
3 years ago

The West doesn’t hate itself. A few people of limited intelligence on Twitter and in North London hate themselves, and this country. And they make an entirely disproportionate amount of noise about it.
Most of the rest of us are just getting on with our lives, and when asked to vote, we vote for sanity, which wins hands down every time. That is real life. Contrary to the beliefs of London media types, Twitter is not real life.

Last edited 3 years ago by Albireo Double
joycebrette
joycebrette
3 years ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Well said.

Kremlington Swan
Kremlington Swan
3 years ago

I’m not sure progressives are blinded by their guilt. I think there is a certain demographic that goes shopping for opinions in the same way people go shopping for fashionable clothing.
All this virtue-signalling is really shopping for the soul. The soul needs to dress itself for its fellow citizens (hardly anyone wants to be naked in public), and so it dresses to gain the approval of its peers. One could almost describe the whole of the so-called progressive liberal left as a giant catwalk. Lots of ‘look at me’ and rapturous applause, but not much that makes any sense.

Wilfred Davis
Wilfred Davis
3 years ago

‘Shopping for the soul.’

In a nutshell.

Look at me: the right hairstyle, the right designer clothes, the right footwear, the right taste in music, the right ethical views, the right kind of sanctimony, the right kind of contempt, the right kind of hatred. Now I’m one of you. We’re really with it. And that makes us superior to everyone else.

joycebrette
joycebrette
3 years ago

You hit the nail on the head, well said.

Kremlington Swan
Kremlington Swan
3 years ago

The question is ‘why the self-flagellation?’. The answer is ‘brainwashing’.
Those who have not been brought up surrounded by all those conditioning influences (and were instead exposed to a different set of conditioning influences) do not go in for this self-flagellation.

I think all the rest is rationalisation – people inventing reasons for a perspective that has been engendered in them without their conscious participation.

I think there is little point trying to challenge that perspective (that the West is more guilty/white people are more guilty), because I don’t think that attitude has been reached as a result of careful thinking. On the contrary, any thinking is likely to be used to defend the position already taken. We defend our attitudes like a good lawyer defends his client. We’re not that interested in the truth, only in getting our prejudices off the hook.
As far as human rights are concerned, the Western powers – as dominant colonial powers – were once guilty of every abuse under the sun. But not any more. The heinous abuses we see everywhere today are far more likely to come from non white, non European people (although I acknowledge the damage done to that argument by the Iraq invasion).

But just to say such a thing will invite not just denial, but howls of protest from people for whom it is not just an inconvenient truth, but outright heresy.

Last edited 3 years ago by Kremlington Swan
John Riordan
John Riordan
3 years ago

“And wouldn’t we be emboldening the white supremacists who claim that Western civilization is superior to others? How is any of this in our self-interest?”

You don’t have to be a white supremacist to make this claim. It is surely obvious that even the progressives in question who purport to hate the West, are actually tacitly assuming that it is superior by virtue of holding it to a higher standard: the article itself makes this point right at the start. But ignoring the two polar opposites in this context, most westerners know and understand that they live in a privileged realm, and that most of the rest of the world is simply less attractive as a place to live.

What more do you need in order to conclude the point? This is not the same as saying that other races are somehow inferior: recent history proves beyond argument that when a country adopts substantially the same rules that govern open societies in the West, they themselves become open societies in due course. So when we say that Western civilisation is superior, we do mean just that: the civilisation, not the ethnic origin of the people who first discovered how to organise society in the form in question. Any society can do it if it wants to, so there’s no need for any of the self-flagellation of the soul implied here by admitting these truths.

Last edited 3 years ago by John Riordan
David Brown
David Brown
3 years ago

“…  median white British household wealth stands at ÂŁ314,000, compared to ÂŁ66,000 for the median British-Bangladeshi family…”
It is also worth mentioning that there are vast wealth differences between Britain’s ethnic minority groups, with median Indian households on average being as wealthy as their white British counterparts, for instance.
So maybe the problem is, at least in part, one of culture rather than race? Given that many white Britons would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a Bangladeshi and an Indian, let alone a British-Bangladeshi and a British-Indian, it seems a stretch to conclude that the white majority is racist against Bangladeshis but not against Indians. If British-Indians (and, I understand, British-Chinese) earn more on average than white Britons, who in turn earn more than Afro-Caribbean Britons, is part of the problem possibly in the cultures of these various groups?
One of the lowest-performing groups in British education, higher only than various traveller communities, is working-class white boys. Perhaps they are rather inclined to be “too cool for school”, in a way that many British Asians, whether South or East, are not.
We are, as a nation, very happy to praise the achievements of those communities who do well, although success can be seen by the woke as denying you your minority status, whilst automatically assuming that any ethnicity which does not, on average, attain the same heights, must be oppressed by racism.
Incidentally, I understand that another high-flying group in the UK is British-Nigerians. It is an interesting form of white-supremacist racism that oppresses the Caribbean, but promotes the African.
And apologies to Dr Adekoya for picking these small holes, as I agree with much of his argument.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  David Brown

So maybe the problem is, at least in part, one of culture rather than race?
Ah, the variable of which we dare not speak. In the US, it is beyond doubt that Asians value education, to the point that universities punish such students for achieving. Yet, there is zero interest in exploring this dynamic, just in treating as a problem. Meanwhile, high-achieving black kids are often accused of ‘acting white,’ and again, no exploration of why that is. One culture regularly glorifies the worst actors in the bunch, but noticing that makes one a racist.
This country is full of African natives who are professionals, whose kids fly right, and whose status mirrors any white immigrant or native group. But mentioning that, too, is heresy. Someone like Ben Carson is derided, called a sellout, while the misogynistic gang-banger is glorified.

David Yetter
David Yetter
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

Obliquely, the “woke” gave away that even they recognize that this is the case with a poster promulgated by the Smithsonian’s Museum of African American History and Culture entitled, “Aspects of Whitness and White Culture in the United States,” which was pulled down after it was mocked and derided by the American right (though in retrospect, I wonder whether it wasn’t actually pulled down because the museum recognize the actual import of what it said).
In it, along with various silly things like favoring bland food (something I’ve not actually observed in white Americans born after the mid-1950’s), it asserts that “whiteness” is characterized by self-reliance, valuing objectivity and rationality, putting work before play, planning for the future, politeness, avoidance of conflict.
Notice that to avoid being “white” in a thoroughgoing way, one would need to be dependent, subjectivist, irrational, put pleasure before work, live for the present,and be rude and confrontational. I would suggest that these characteristics are a formula for failure in any society from hunter-gather, through agrarian and industrial, down to the present digital age. This sort of “whiteness” has nothing to do with race (save that the negation of it just described is dismayingly close to a description of the prevailing culture of the African-American urban underclass), being found not just among those of European ancestry, among Asian-American (both South Asian and East Asian) and Nigerian-Americans, and exhibited by many notable African-Americans descended from the West Africans forcibly enslaved and brought to the New World, from Frederick Douglass to Clarence Thomas.

Don Gaughan
Don Gaughan
3 years ago

We are witnessing the bizarre spectacle of the west , being by any fair and objective measure ( ie as the numerous studies mentioned in the article) one of the most fair, just and inclusive societies, being truthlessly depicted and persecuted as the worst and only racist society by groups and factions who are far more guilty of their accusations , especially the marxist woke progressive cult
The irrational neurotic liberal guilt and self hate has increased, metasised and now outwardly projected onto others , the tribal/ culturally suicidal hate zealotry worn as a virtue signalling badge of self righteous wokeness , forcing and downloading their neurotic guilt and self hate on children through CRT indocrination in schools, their monopolised hyped curated issues of racism.and climate change deployed to put them in power and dictatorial control, increasingly unhinged and extreme …
The woke progressive tyranny is clearly the most menacing, harmful existential peril to western civilisation, its cultures and peoples in our time.
The question now is , what are we going to do about it?

Last edited 3 years ago by Don Gaughan
Chuck Burns
Chuck Burns
3 years ago

Why is it that the reference is to Western Civilization? Why haven’t the other civilizations built comparably advanced civilizations? Instead of flocking to the West, build a civilization in your land that will be the envy of the world.

Mark Melvin
Mark Melvin
3 years ago

Not because of a desire to give Westerners a pat on the back so they can feel good about themselves, but because any other type of assessment is conveniently arbitrary, and arbitrary justice is no justice at all.
I rather enjoyed reading in this article about all the good, no great ways, that people in the west (of which I am one) have improved the lives not only of themselves but also those who have arrived from other countries. I would rather like someone to say “West, do please pat yourself on the back. You did great. Thank you very much.”
Waiting.

Mark Melvin
Mark Melvin
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Melvin

Forgot to add this bit. Using Newtonian laws (even though they are in the process of being cancelled), the 3rd one to be precise, as one who is getting pretty fed up with being constantly vilified for all those things white people are being vilified for, one response to that would be what the author himself referred to:
would we rather that Western nations declare, Trumpesquely, that from now on: “No more morals or values. We will simply use our military and economic power to ruthlessly pursue our interests. We no longer care what others think of us.” Would we then happily lower our assessment standards for the West because it is no longer hypocritical? In practice, a West that shed all moral pretence would deprive others of the ability to deploy the argument of hypocrisy against it, leaving the weakest nations pretty much helpless in the face of brute power. 
Leaving the unnecessary ‘Trumpesquely’ reference aside, the reaction seems entirely possible if the west finally gets too sick of all this endless criticism. I’m getting that way.

A Woodward
A Woodward
3 years ago

Let’s take 3 quotes shall we?
“We no longer care what others think of us.” Yep, that’s where I am these days.
“.. we should refrain from acknowledging this publicly, because that could only weaken our position in the quest for racial justice.” So you are admitting that the racial justice movement is essentiallly a power play.
“widespread discrimination against blacks and other minorities in Europe is well-documented” Completely undermined by your later example about Indians out-earning the indigenous population, and you don’t even mention Chinese-descended immigrants who do even better. Disingenuous at best.

Steve Lee
Steve Lee
3 years ago
Reply to  A Woodward

It’s all very disappointing

Last edited 3 years ago by Steve Lee
Steven Farrall
Steven Farrall
3 years ago

‘Social justice’. ‘Economic justice’. Racial justice’. Are all weasel words. They leading words sucks the meaning out of the second word. They are meaningless phrases that serve only as ‘progressive’ code words. Justice is an absolute. It cannot be qualified.

Michael Coleman
Michael Coleman
3 years ago

there’s no use dancing around the fact that there persists an informal racial hierarchy positing white people at the top, black people at the bottom and everyone else somewhere in between.”
This is demonstrably false. In the US, Asian Americans excel over whites in every statistical measure of success. Strip out this false claim and the ensuing nonsense on the unfairness of our Western society and it becomes a decent piece.

Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
3 years ago

As Thomas Sowell has observed, envy was once a mortal sin. Now it has become a virtue called social justice.

Iliya Kuryakin
Iliya Kuryakin
3 years ago

A poor article because it fails to properly define what is being written about. What do you mean by fair? What do you mean by equal (outcome or opportunity)? What do you mean by justice?