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The racism lurking behind Scottish nationalism Why is the bigotry of many SNP supporters so readily tolerated?

Scottish nationalism is not the fluffy progressive creature London's media likes to imagine (Photo by Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images)

Scottish nationalism is not the fluffy progressive creature London's media likes to imagine (Photo by Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images)


May 25, 2020   4 mins

Leading SNP politicians have been formulating a plan to renew their push for Scottish independence after next May’s elections. It is hardly surprising that Scottish nationalists are pushing for Scottish independence — that’s sort of the trade description — and especially so as the coronavirus is putting strain on the UK, as it is on other federations like the United States and Belgium.

Yet it cannot be right that the Scottish National Party should subject the good people of these Isles to yet another nationalist, divisive, separatist “little Scotlander” referendum, kicking off a new round of an entirely unsolvable political bun-fight that will tear our country apart even further. We’ve had the “once in a generation” referendum and the nationalists lost. Should the SNP succeed next May, Westminster — Parliament for all the United Kingdom — should simply refuse to authorise it.

The SNP is by any measurement Left-wing, a social democratic party that prides itself on being as unlike the Tory and Brexit-voting hordes of the south as is possible. They are Left-of-centre on economic and social issues, fiercely pro-EU and in the European Parliament would align with progressive and green groups from across the continent. Yet this is not the whole story, as anyone who has upset their supporters can testify to.

Despite being a Remain-voting liberal, my views on a second referendum have attracted the sort of racism — from Scottish nationalists — that you would usually expect to receive from the far-right. In many exchanges with SNP supporters, I have learned that that Left-wing racism against people of colour is apparently acceptable, if we veer off an approved script.

But, then, as surprising as English liberals may find it, Scotland is not the progressive paradise they like to believe — and  my anecdotal experience is borne out by wider concerns. Last year more than 80 public and professional figures signed an open letter warning that the struggle against racism in Scotland is “rolling backwards”, creating a climate of “resentment towards frank discussion of race and racism” that is threatening to undo progress on race equality.

It is significant that the signatories also highlighted a trend to “silence the voices of people in Scotland who face colour-based racism”. This letter came less than two months after Scotland’s national poet laureate Jackie Kay warned openly  that Scotland had to “grow up” as it was “decades behind” in its treatment of black and ethnic minority people.

Too often, when minority voices such as mine — children of the colonies, born in Britain — oppose the break-up of what we now consider our country, Scottish nationalists too readily seek to silence our voices by accusing us, instead, of being English “colonists”.

Such rhetoric is not only overly antagonistic, it also displays a fundamental ignorance about why most ethnic minorities in Britain have expressed a preference for calling ourselves British over English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish. And while I embrace being both a non-Anglo-Saxon Englishman and a Brit, it is not easy for many of us to forget the nationalist-inspired violent racism levied against us growing up, and still present today.

For ‘progressive’ Scottish Nationalists to draw an equivalence between ethnic minorities who oppose their separatism and British colonialism, smacks of the very colonial privilege they seek to denounce. The fact of the matter is that Scottish colonists profited greatly from the creation of the British Empire. Scotland’s debt to Empire is her dirty little secret, seldom acknowledged but ever-present. The “tobacco lords” of Glasgow were enriched by slavery in the Americas and Africa, while a quick visit to the former North British Rubber Company in Edinburgh serves to disabuse most naysayers suffering under such a false sense of righteousness.

The pernicious narrative peddled by Scottish nationalists that England colonised Scotland, and then the rest of the world — and so England must even now be resisted in Scotland — sounds suspiciously like an act of whitewashing Scottish culpability, at least to the ears of this descendant of a former colony.

This is not something SNP supporters like to hear, but SNP supporters have gained a reputation for intimidating critics. Recently, BBC News Scotland Editor Sarah Smith learned the hard way why Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has earned the nickname “Nippie Sweetie” for adopting the  “aggressive and adversarial approach of male politicians” early on in her career.

Ms Smith had made the admitted error of accidentally describing Sturgeon as  “enjoying the opportunity” to shine during lockdown, instead of saying that she was “embracing” the challenge. Ms Sturgeon’s supporters were not happy to say the least, and an online pile-on inevitably ensued. Ms Smith, though, was quick to push into reverse gear, her resultant climbdown being perhaps the swiftest and most complete of any journalist in recent years, to my mind. Scotland’s BBC chief was so remorseful, in fact, that she felt the need to issue no fewer than four swift back-to-back apologies online to Ms Sturgeon, with one of them remaining pinned to her profile page for days. Ms Sturgeon regally confirmed that she accepted her apology.

So wouldn’t it be lovely if Nicola Sturgeon also apologised for, and investigated, the racism present among all too many of her online supporting trolls?

While it is true that Ms Sturgeon is not personally responsible for the behaviour of her supporters, such racism appears not to be a mere bug for the SNP, but may well be a feature. Indeed, just because a nationalist party identifies as being on the Left, it does not mean that an undercurrent of racism cannot be found beneath all the cuddly talk.

Historically, many nationalist parties and nationalists have started on the Left, from the French Revolution onwards; indeed one of the most famous of 20th century nationalists, Benito Mussolini, was on the National Directorate for the Italian Socialist Party, before he turned rightward to fan the flames of nationalism.

Violent hostility to outsiders and critics is in the DNA of nationalists, whether on the Left and Right, as anyone who has debated with SNP can testify to. When that outsider has different colour skin the rage seems to be heighted.

As party leader, it is Nicola Sturgeon’s duty — not mine — to make minorities feel safe from the racism of too many of her supporters. And until she can do so, do not be fooled by the progressive overtures of this SNP. For too long commentators of all persuasions have harboured a policy and ethical blindspot for Scotland’s nationalists, viewing them as polar opposites to English nationalists, rather than their counterparts.

We should beware the kid gloves with which metropolitan opinion formers treat the SNP. Their party machine is curiously similar to Momentum, and much of what we would never tolerate from Corbyn now rules in Edinburgh. As such, they are riddled with all the trappings of power, while harbouring a nasty, illiberal and authoritarian streak. Alarm bells should be ringing now, lest after lockdown we enter blindly into yet another experience like the three years before the virus struck.

And if you thought Brexit Britain got bad, just wait until Scexit.

 


Maajid Nawaz is a columnist, LBC presenter and Founding Chairman of Quilliam.

MaajidNawaz

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Helen McDade
Helen McDade
4 years ago

Maajid Nawaz’ article is absolutely spot on about the SNP’s trolls coming down viciously on anyone who dares to criticise the Queen of Scotland, even mildly. I do not have the knowledge to comment on the racism towards Scots from ethnic backgrounds but, when I saw the title of the article, I expected it to be about the “racism” (not sure of the correct term) of the SNP against English people – as that has been something I have increasingly observed. As a spectator, I have been amazed at the overt hostility shown by many SNP supporters against “the English”. Sometimes, the obvious prejudice is covered up by using “the Tories” or “Westminster” as substitute wording, when being at their most rude. I know many English people living in Scotland feel unwelcome now and I am deeply ashamed of such fellow Scots. Keep shining a light on these attitudes.

dandj26
dandj26
4 years ago
Reply to  Helen McDade

I don’t know about Scots from ethnic backgrounds either, but I do know that in 60 odd well travelled years, I have only been racially abused in Glasgow!

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  dandj26

Were you campaigning for a Scottish seat?

dandj26
dandj26
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

I was just trying to campaign for a pint!

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  dandj26

You probably encountered a Rangers supporting unionist David…l’d like to apologise on behalf of all Glaswegians…As the great majority of Glaswegians are really friendly and welcoming to all visitors to Glasgow…

dandj26
dandj26
4 years ago

Oh indeed, to be fair he was very drunk!

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago

Where are all those ‘racists’ in Scotland?. Ask the refugees who have settled here in places like Bute. They don’t seem to have encountered any problem and a number of them have set-up highly successful businesses now.

aitch.hooper
aitch.hooper
4 years ago
Reply to  Helen McDade

Evidence of that please? As someone with an English background and SNP membership, that really is utter tosh… ask @EnglishScotsforYes what they think?

inneswalker
inneswalker
4 years ago
Reply to  Helen McDade

Thanks for the article Majid. You are absolutely right about the SNP getting an easy ride from metropolitan liberals in the media. I have been amazed at the lack of hard questioning of the SNP in England and Scotland. Half of them are seemingly in awe of them and the others are intimidated.
When you consider the treatment of Sarah Smith and other examples of intimidation e.g. the mob several thousand strong that marched on the BBC HQ in Glasgow during the first referendum, it’s easy to see where the fear is coming from.
Nonetheless it is vital that the media not only stand up to intimidation, but also that attempts at intimidation are given the full glare of publicity in the media as well and that the SNP are asked whether they condemn it or not. From that standpoint the appeasement of the mob by a leading BBC journalist was both shameful and deeply troubling.
I also agree with your point that there is no need to have a second referendum whatever the result in next years Scottish elections. As you say, we had a clear result in 2014 in the “once in a generation” referendum and it seems to me that the only reason that there is talk of a second one is that the Nationalist’s and their supporters didn’t like the result of the first one.
Thanks again for shining a light on the dark underbelly of Scottish Nationalism Majid. You are standing up for millions of us living in Scotland who despair at the way the country seems to be heading sometimes.
Finally, please watch out for the SNP bill coming down the line which some have described as the biggest attack on free speech and freedom of conscience since the enlightenment.
And for a further insight of the Scottish media’s
uncritical attitude please try to look up the “Thank you Nicola” children’s video posted on the STV website yesterday then quickly taken down. It is seriously jaw dropping and wouldn’t be out of place in North Korea.

bmccaughey66
bmccaughey66
4 years ago
Reply to  inneswalker

Sarah Smith constantly trys to put down the SNP, it is well documented. BBC are a propoganda arm of Westminster with the likes of Kay Adams constantly trying to bad mouth them. The good news is the people of Scotland are waking up and support for independence is rising, now close to 56%. Why do you think Westminster is petrified to allow another indi reg, they know they will lose. 😂♥️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

inneswalker
inneswalker
4 years ago
Reply to  bmccaughey66

No their not. You don’t speak for Scots or Scotland. You lost the last referendum by a decisive margin because you had no coherent economic or currency policy.
What the Nationalist side is trying to do is intimidate the media into not criticising the Supreme leader, a bit like China just now.
Luckily even liberal commentators in the rest of the country, like Majid, are starting to get wise to these tactics and tell it as it is.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  inneswalker

Innes, mind your spelling, as well as your facts. Scotland is not like China: that is absurd. The fact that at the referendum in 2014, 45% of a constituent part of the so-called United Kingdom voted to break apart politically was/is a terrible indictment of this country and the way it has been run over the years. The 45% was not that far from victory and was achieved despite overwhelming bias in the media who bad-mouthed what other countries have strode for, and gained, all over the world.

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago

Ah James…going for the grammar is always the sign of a strong argument!! Not!!

Picking holes in someones argument isn’t bias.
Fact checking isn’t bias.
Presenting alternative opinions (as well as yours) isn’t bias.
Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean its biased.
The BBC/STV/Al Jazeera journalists etc…would be completely remiss if they overlooked glaring anomalies in a campaigns policy ( like say no currency plan, spending that doesn’t add up at all). To say nothing would be biased!
Oh and interestingly – I would be of the opinion that BBC were far too easy on the Yes campaign and he SNP in general – for fear of being seen as biased.
I think the SNP campaign of intimidation is actually effective (and wrong obviously)

Hope my spelling was to your satisfaction – its all about the details after all (which is exactly where the SNP policymakers fall down. Maybe you could get a job with them?)

blairmore8
blairmore8
3 years ago
Reply to  Jason Norval

Excellent reply, Jason. It is the case that there are some so blind (James) that cannot see a logical argument such as the one you posted. Well done!

inneswalker
inneswalker
4 years ago

Sorry mate, you lost. Deal with it.

kimjironside
kimjironside
3 years ago
Reply to  inneswalker

It wasn’t a decisive margin though, was it. If less than 200k people had switched to Yes from No, the result would have differed.

I.e. if the international citizens of Scotland hadn’t been lied to by the No campaign about their citizenship being in jeopardy with a yes vote, if they had know Brexit was actually the No party’s direction… things would have been very different.

Robert Forde
Robert Forde
4 years ago
Reply to  bmccaughey66

“Arm of Westminster”? The UK government is constantly whingeing that the BBC is biased against it. Meanwhile, a large part of the Left complains that the BBC is too rightwing. On the EU issue, both the Leave and Remain movements constantly complained that coverage favoured the other side. I wish that the BBC could get its act together and decide who it’s biased against, because everyone else seems to think it’s them.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  inneswalker

The BBC were shamelessly biased in the referendum .
The clue is in the name.

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

The SNP are myopically focused on one policy and fly in the face of the democratic majority of the people of Scotland.
The clue is definitely in the name.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason Norval

They have been in power for 13 years? Surely that’s democratic?

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago

Absolutely it is when it comes to Scottish elections – they are the biggest single party. I don’t personally like that they are but I fully accept that they have the right to form a government on that basis.
And thats how it works.
Votes are cast and we stand by the result (whether or not we like it).

I’m sure you will agree that where this starts to get tricky is when a party or grouping begins to over-reach and claim mandates on issues that weren’t part of the vote. Or worse still ignore results.

To claim that the people of Scotland demand another vote on the question of independence based on securing 46.5% of the vote with a 55.6% turnout or 45% of 67% in 2019 is disingenuous.

People vote for a variety of reasons – personality, specific policies, local issues etc…etc…Manifestos are awash with reasons why people might chose to vote for or against a party at a particular moment in time….. which I’m sure you’d agree?

So the best (most democratic) way to find out if they agree with that one single huge policy is to ask it in isolation – a binary yes /no.

There can be no crossover, nothing lost in translation – a straight shoot out! Correct?

So when that result comes back as a ‘No’, its undemocratic to dismiss it as ‘wrong’ and demand another shot over and over again and repeatedly use the result of votes on other topics and other elections where the big issue isn’t the primary question as a justification.

I’m sure If you’re completely honest with yourself James, you’ll agree. that If the boot was on the other foot you’d be arguing my point – its just that the result didn’t go the way you wanted so you’ll play fast and loose with the term ‘democracy’ to engineer your own end.

Doesn’t work like that and to try and twist it so is desperately wrong.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason Norval

That’s not how mandates work Jason as l suspect you know already…the party that wins the election gets to introduce the manifesto promises as their right…So the manifesto promised a new referendum if the situation changed sufficiently or we were taken out of the EU against our wishes. That’s happening at the end of December so a new referendum is legitimate and will occur with Westminsters blessing or not…It is ridulous that an equal partner in a political union can attempt to block the other equal partner from taking a decision that effects the future of the people of Scotland…We won’t let that happen…

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago

It wasn’t/isn’t theirs to promise…that’s the issue.

The SNP (as the party of government) has the right to introduce and implement their policies that fall within the scope of Devolved Powers (Scotland Act 1999)

Demanding or setting conditions about a referendum does not fall into this scope. The SNP knew this at time of writing their manifesto and it was included for grandstanding/ideological/and opportunistic reasons in breech of their promise to park the issue post 2014 defeat.

The main point being it’s in their manifesto but has no place being there as a promise or set of conditions.

The SNP and supporters now claim that every election (national/general or referendum Brexit) is actually a defacto referendum on Independence or referendums on a referendum on Independence.

But…lets park the lack of remit and all the other reasons and policies that people may choose to vote for the SNP and accept for one moment that this logic is correct.

Lets say that each election and each vote is actually principally about the referendum/independence issue and as the First Minister likes to suggest, the will of the majority of Scottish people on this topic is being oppressively stymied by Westminster

…..wait….did we say ‘majority’ and ‘will of the people of Scotland’?

Less than 26% of voters (46.5% of 55.6% turnout in Scottish Election) actually gave you the thumbs up on the topic.

The other main parties all included manifesto pledges to prevent/not have another referendum.

So if we apply the same rationale their voters expressly gave the issue the thumbs down.

A further 44% weren’t even bothered to express an opinion.

So how, either without the express will or known opinion off 74% of voters in Scotland the SNP claim a mandate on an issue/policy promise that isn’t within their legal right to implement, demand or promise?

Doesn’t feel like the will of a nation – it feels more like the will of a minority who happen to be in power.

I suspect you are right – the people of Scotland won’t let it happen. But then again they’ve already told you that in 2014…you just are struggling to accept it!

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason Norval

An ipsos mori poll for the BBC published on 28th May stated that 63% of Scots now favoured a 2nd referendum which dwarfs the majority that you quoted from the 2014 referendum…looks like the tide has turned…

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago

Well there we go….

Although its 34% that want now/within 2 years.

19% around 2-5 years

10% beyond 5 years

So interestingly the poll says your support is probably about the same as voting patterns suggest (may be a bit higher) – at this moment.

But wouldn’t be like the SNP/Supporters to grab the best possible twist out of the facts?!!

How about the SNP run the country well, sort out teaching crisis, balance the books, god forbid they could even try and run a surplus (appreciate Covid makes that tough) and show the populous that they can do a good job!?

Wouldn’t that just be awesome?

Guarantee you that way they’ll get real and genuine support rather than trying to run roughshod over the population and get in through the backdoor.

inneswalker
inneswalker
4 years ago

Unlucky Craig, opinion polls don’t override referendum results. When it came to the only poll that counts you lost by a decisive margin. Too bad.

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago

Presumably Craig your are ‘in denial ‘ about that £67billion, and North Sea Oil Revenue?
If you cannot answer such a simple question you should not be pontificating on Scottish affairs, of which you obviously know little.
This a constant problem with ‘nationalists’, strong on emotion and weak on facts. Thus most of your arguments are immediately dismissed as nonsense.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  inneswalker

Sarah Smith was pulled up short for gross lack of professionalism in making a broadcast for the supposedly impartial state broadcaster which was not impartial.

bmccaughey66
bmccaughey66
4 years ago
Reply to  Helen McDade

Provide evidence please. Because I have lived in Scotland and supported Scottish independence my whole life and your comments are complete and utter lies. There are nearly 800k english,Welsh , NI people living perfectly happily in Scotland. If you want I can provide plenty of evidence of English hostility against Scots and not just the casual racism we see on English TV. I will wait 👍♥️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago
Reply to  bmccaughey66

Yet in the 1997 Scottish Devolution Referendum, sometimes colloquially called the ‘Yes, Yes, Referendum only 44.69% voted Yes, and we call that Democracy?

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark Corby

Held on exactly the same terms as British elections and the Brexit referendum.

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

Agreed, but is that really the best ‘we’ can do? To call it Democracy is a travesty. We should try the Swiss system.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark Corby

Fine, let’s abolish Brexit.

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

Touché! A rather obvious ‘wind up’.
However our ‘Parliamentary Democracy’ does require a major overhaul before we blunder into yet another crisis!

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark Corby

Only 45%
That my friend, is a lot of opposition.
Especially at the first time of asking.
Remember that devolution took two goes.

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

Well said. I supinely decided not to mention that as it will only serve to further enrage some of the ‘participants’ in this animated discussion!

inneswalker
inneswalker
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

If 45% is a lot of opposition then surely 55% is a much bigger support of the union.
Clutching at straws there I’m afraid.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark Corby

Fewer voted No.

Robert Cannon
Robert Cannon
4 years ago
Reply to  Helen McDade

Have you tried being an EU migrant in England since summer 2016 like my wife and I have been? The level of hypocrisy on the part of white English people when it come to complaining about prejudice shown to them by others relative to that which they show is truly unbelievable.

andy thompson
andy thompson
4 years ago
Reply to  Robert Cannon

I’m a born and bred Brit, I love my country and I am somewhat of a (in my interpretation of the ‘good bits’) nationalist. I am a Tory through and through and shall be to the end of my days. I am a total 100% believer in Brexit; as are most of my friends and family. I do not consider myself a racist, though TBH I’m not terribly keen on those whom come here and expect us to change or be damned; so dependant on your interoperation maybe I am a racist. However on behalf of any of my fellow Brits who have shown their prejudiced faces to you I apologise profusely. Unfortunately you get these people the world over but it is unfair to paint us all with the same brush. Myself and all my friends are ashamed utterly by these people whom have offended you. May I wish you both a very long, a very healthy and a very happy life here on this (damp cold) island that we all call home. Ignore the idiots, they aren’t worth the energy.

blairmore8
blairmore8
3 years ago
Reply to  andy thompson

What a wonderful comment you make, Andy. I believe that you could be speaking for the majority of Brits.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Helen McDade

You’ll actually have proof of that won’t you. I’m at a bit of a disadvantage to you as I actually have an English wife with a very strong East Midlands accent who has been living up here since 1973 and has never (Note that word, ‘never’. ) experienced the racism against English people. Likewise we have numerous English friends who’ve lived up here for long periods with the same experience. I’m sure some English people have had bad experiences. After all headcases are international.

What my wife does notice is the increasing xenophobia apparent in England and the growing unpleasant attitudes towards Scots. After all, her half English son now lives down there and he has a strong Edinburgh accent.

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

As usual you are talking nonsense!
I happen to know a large number of retired Scottish Army Officers, who both served in, and commanded some of Scotland’s finest regiments, yet they suffer racial/class discrimination and abuse. Why?
For the simple fact they speak with an English accent. The fact they can trace their ancestry in Scotland back to the Middle Ages, have commanded some of Scotland’s finest in action, counts for nothing with your kind.
It is all an embarrassing charade of pseudo Gallic tosh, almost completely devoid of historical content, logic or even reason. Please wake up! Stop embarrassing both yourself and your cause.
.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Helen McDade

What about the thousands of English people who have settled in Scotland and joined the SNP? I know many people like that. It is an inclusive party with many members from all sorts of backgrounds and cultures. On the other hand I also know many Scots and people from various ethnic backgrounds who, after the Brexit vote especially, have felt decidedly uneasy at the change in attitudes by many (though not all) towards those from different backgrounds. Two wrongs do not make a right, though.

kimjironside
kimjironside
3 years ago
Reply to  Helen McDade

I support independence because I choose to take a stand against the corruption, warmongering and elitist pocket lining in Westminster.

I believe the union is unfair for England too, why are they the only country in the union without a parliament? Why do we get to vote on all English matters and they only vote on reserved elsewhere?

I have nothing against the English, I think they also deserve to take their own path. I actually adore the queen!

I make a daily effort to be anti-racist, because I now recognise many things that people of colour have highlighted that I’ve overlooked my whole life. Even the small details like skin coloured crayons for kids, make up, tights… the assumption that white is default is something ingrained from a young age, and it’s wrong.

Yet I vote SNP. I want independence because we have different demographics, financial needs, infrastructure, objectives and evidently political views. A one size fits all approach does.not.work.

In an independent Scotland I probably won’t vote SNP. We will return to a blended of parties which will result in a fairly balanced government. I want my children’s political voice to hold weight, I a government with fewer layers and smoke screens. It’s all more transparent when on a smaller scale: a gov that genuinely wants to reinvest in the country it governs is what I want for the future of my children.

matthew-hall
matthew-hall
4 years ago

I’m Welsh and live in Wales and can testify that Welsh nationalism is also inherently racist. It’s not openly antagonistic to non-whites, it’s just that the nats’ dream is of a tribal homeland more or less exclusively for the tribe. When I have asked nationalist friends whether they would like Welsh towns and cities to become as culturally diverse as their English equivalents I am met with a very uncomfortable silence, which is usually followed by a protest that Wales has been an ‘occupied’ territory since the Middle Ages and that the nationalistic struggle is about the right to self-determination. This deflection disguises the fact that what is really being said is that ‘we want to enjoy our tribal homeland free of outside influences for a good long while before we entertain any idea of how it it might alter in future’.
The ‘build the wall’ mentality has only been exacerbated by the differing lockdown rules.
We now have a have border between England and Wales (police road checks, no automatic right of entry!) enacted by the Welsh Assembly, who are entirely unapologetic about it.
I cannot describe the bizareness of the situation …

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  matthew-hall

I would let the Welsh decide Welsh issues Mat .
I notice you do not consider the politics of the way people are voting in Wales, but prefer to talk about tribes, as if anyone thinks in these terms these days.

Jean Fothers
Jean Fothers
4 years ago
Reply to  matthew-hall

I would like someone to challenge those police in a court of law. I feel sure they are acting illegally by enforcing a ‘no right of entry’ from England to Wales.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Jean Fothers

Its called Devolution. Live with it.

briankerrera119
briankerrera119
4 years ago
Reply to  Jean Fothers

What are you waiting for? If you feel that sure why wait for someone else to challenge the legality of entry.

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago
Reply to  matthew-hall

“Come home to a real fire! Buy a cottage in Wales!”
Also it’s no longer the Welsh Assembly but the Welsh Parliament! (from 6th May last).
The conduct of the Welsh over the Lockdown is truly pathetic!
I trust Dominic Cummings will take note, when deciding if it’s worth subsidising the Welsh any longer. A more ungrateful bunch of scroungers would be hard to imagine, although I can think of one or perhaps even two candidates.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark Corby

Typical of the arrogance found in some, increasing numbers of English people. The Welsh are scared that incomers might bring in the virus; the same feelings are being voiced in Devon and Cornwall; Northumberland; North part of East Anglia and in the Highlands. It is perfectly understandable in this crisis.

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago

No it isn’t a “perfectly understandable in this crisis”.
This an outbreak of national panic on an unprecedented scale. I never thought I should live to see such a day.
My only consolation, if you can call it that, is it has also afflicted most, but not all of the Western World.
Here in the UK, ‘we’ are all equally guilty!
Do you not agree?

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark Corby

You completely ignore the fact that the virus has been virulent in some, mainly urban, areas while being almost non-existent in others (mainly rural ones). Who could blame folks in fairly remote villages not wanting visitors coming in for 3 months until the crisis passed. That is understandable.

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago

This is not a crisis unless you are one of the ‘Darwinian’ categories preselect for death eg: Old, knackered, and Black. Cruel but irrefutably fact based.
‘Folks’ as you so quaintly call them, should not have been panicked into the selfish hysteria you describe.
A ‘whiff of flu’ and what we used to call civilisation collapses into an internecine brawl. Wonderful!
Vae victis!

briankerrera119
briankerrera119
4 years ago
Reply to  matthew-hall

I’m also Welsh, lived in Scotland since 1977 and a member of the SNP. Big difference between the Welsh and Scottish Gov is that the Scottish Government can smell what the English Gov is shovelling.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

Yep, I remember Nigel Farage being attacked in Scotland In 2013 by Scottish nationalists and being called ‘N.z* Scum’ for daring to believe in exit from the EU and a cap on immigration, in contrast to a large group of proud, independence-supporting Scots who cannot tolerate the English, seem to support unlimited inward immigration, and appear to want to be ruled by continental Europe – three positions that if not held, in their eyes automatically equate you with members of the 1930s/1940’s German National Socialist movement, and something, it is worth mentioning, they have in common with lots of English liberals, greens and hard left socialists (not to mention several Conservatives).

bmccaughey66
bmccaughey66
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Paul do you also remember the exact same abuse he took in england. Nigel farge is an English conscept forced upon Scotland due to Scots being force fed English TV. We are not anti english, but anti Westminster. Have you heard of English Scots for independence. Do you not understand that the vast majority of Scots are happy being in the EU and that we need immigrants to help our economy. As for the article I would suggest the journalist look to the loyalist yoonionists for racists. Because any debate I have with them always ends up with me being told to fkk of back to where I came from. As for immigrants the yoons all appear to follow in Nigel garages footsteps.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  bmccaughey66

Yep, hi Brendan. I was careful not to say “all” Scots Nats in my critique, and I agree with some of the points you are making. I also regret you being told to fkk off back to where you come from. You sound like a great and humorous bloke. Also I do accept the majority Scots view of EU membership while remaining baffled why they seek independence from England but voted to be ruled over by Brussels. I agree also with your basic view on immigration while wanting it throttled, limited and controlled. I’m guessing we’ll part company on our thoughts on Nigel Farage (for me a hugely important figure whose policies I am mainly in support of), but that’s life I guess.

rtroup3151
rtroup3151
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

There shouldn’t be anything baffling about wanting to be out of the UK and within the EU. There are 27 other nations in the EU that are not under Westminster rule but choose to be part of the EU. I highly doubt any of them will be holding a referendum to come under UK rule as they could do if they chose to – but they don’t.

What is baffling is the fact that people cannot see why the people of a Country such as Scotland would want to choose what Union to be part of, rather than have that choice made for them.

The EU cannot stop the will of their member Nations to stay or go- Westminster are doing exactly that for Scotland as far as the UK are concerned and are puling them out of the EU against their will without a say in the process.

This is not an equal Union and no amount of flag waving and Vera Lynn can make it so- it is a basic question of democracy or rather a huge democratic deficit. Scottish Sovereignty is 80% controlled by Westminster, with UK Sovereignty just 16% controlled by the EU.

Perhaps if Westminster was to return Sovereignty to its UK Member States to same levels EU member states have control over their own Sovereignty, then there would be no need for referendums.

All Scottish Independence will achieve is the right to have say in the running of these Islands on an equal basis.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  rtroup3151

Hi Rob. Scotland is not independent and is part of the UK and Nationalists lost the last ‘once in a generation’ independence referendum. Yes you are being pulled out of the EU against the will of the majority of those Scots who voted in the EU referendum but you weren’t voting as an independent state we’re you? Just a region of the UK.

I do sympathise in a way, but you have to gain independence before you can start to demand being treated as an independent entity.

Also I still don’t get why you think you’ll have any say in the running of Scotland as a tiny country ruled by France and Germany. Good luck with that if it ever happens.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

You don’t really understand modern politics; do you?

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

I’m not an expert in politics John no, but I think I understand what independence means and what not having it entitles you to do.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Well, perhaps you should try and understand the difference between a loose Federal or Confederal Union with national voting rights and provisions for blocking vetos and an incorporating Union which is what the UK is.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

I understand those differences. Do you understand that Scotland is not an independent country?

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

That’s what the whole argument is about.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

The standards of living in France/Germany/Netherlands/Denmark and other northern European countries is much higher that in the UK. They are fair, respectful societies generally-speaking and why wouldn’t we want to remain a part of something that is working. The problem with the EU is the much poorer and more incompetently-run southern economies.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

If Scotland were to gain independence and were permitted to join the EU you might have to add it to your last paragraph. My problem would be the blame that would be heaped upon England by EU-run Scots independendistas for any penury that independence and EU membership would bring them and the country. Somehow I feel it would end up being our fault. Having said that I would not underestimate the backlash against Scotland from England should you ever get independence. Personally I would wish you good luck but only with the caveat that it costs no Englishman or woman a penny. Then or in the future.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

I constantly wonder why a certain kind of English person takes on a saviour complex that somehow Scots could not do what people all over Northern and Western Europe without the nice English to guide us.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

How do you feel about James Heppey MP for Wells telling a Scottish schoolgirl to “f*ck off back to Scotland.” when he found out that the Millfield schoolgirl’s family supported the SNP? Heppey was and is a Tory MP. The party took no action. My son being threatened with “a doing” for politely asking if he could see the Scottish football results in a Bedford pub. Me being physically attacked in London and Manchester for the sin of having a Scottish accent. That was about 50 years ago so it isn’t just recent. I could post a lot more and so could numerous other Scots.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

I am disgusted by it John. Full stop.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Then perhaps you should complain about incidents like those rather than non-existent attacks on Farage.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

Mmm. Not quite the gracious response to my unqualified response to your post that I was expecting.
The attack on Farage in Scotland was a disgrace and I’m pretty sure led to many of your fellow Scots rejecting independence for fear that those responsible, supported clearly by you and Alex Salmond, would take power and act to silence any opposition in the same way.
If you feel that the attack on Nigel Farage was justified I would suggest you take a long hard look at yourself. For me that bunch of thugs attacked fundamental democratic concepts of free speech and public debate.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

You have no idea what the bulk of Scots feel about Farage. Farage wasn’t attacked. He was heckled and questioned by a group of students actually led by an English chap and an American chap. The drama queen was never in any danger.

blairmore8
blairmore8
3 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

Well, John, after over 30 years in the British Army much spent with English soldiers the worst that I recall was being called a “haggis-basher” and that was light hearted banter.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

That is all such nonsense Paul.
Farage was attacked for his far right philosophy, the EU thing wasn’t on the agenda back then.
I am always amazed by people like yourself, with obviously not the slightest knowledge of history and much else besides, likening Scottish nationalism, which encompasses about half the electorate of Scotland btw, to the third Reich.
It is all so utterly pathetic .

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

Dave. I’m not likening Scottish Nationalism to the third Reich (where did I say that?). I’m just repeating what Scot Nats we’re saying to Nigel (who by the way I don’t believe cleaves to any far right philosophy – a calumny on your part I think). I’ll offer you the chance to re-read what I wrote and perhaps moderate your response – especially the bit where you accuse me of knowing nothing without actually knowing me.
I think I like you Dave but you are making it tough.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

My problem with the author is not his skin colour but rather his arrogance at trying to deny the majority of his fellow citizens their right to a democratically mandated referendum…he’s just in the door so to speak yet he thinks he knows better than people who have lived here all their lives…and had to suffer at the hands of tories for most of their lives…the description 5th columnist fits him like a glove why else would he advise Westminster to ignore the democratically elected government of Scotland?

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

Another calumny. If I were Farage I’d start suing people calling him that and linking him to 1930s/40s Berlin as others have done. Where is your evidence for it Craig? Being in favour of immigration control does not a racist make.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

it does when you blame imigrants for eveything wrong in this country

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

He doesn’t.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago

Where he better informed Craig, then he would know that the SNP has my far the most active Asian participation of all Scottish parties.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

He doesn’t seem to have done much research at all Dave just an outsider having a pop at the SNP because he clearly doesn’t like them despite the fact they are the most progressive political party on these islands…

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

His hero is Thatcher, doesn’t that say it all?
You said,,,,proud, independence-supporting Scots who cannot tolerate the English
And then ….. automatically equate you with members of the 1930s/1940’s German National Socialist movement,

Few Scots dislike the English per se, it is English Tories that are disliked, so don’t post a lot of childish nonsense
And keep the 3rd Reich our your posts, it just makes you appear an hysterical, ill informed bigot.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

Dave. You mentioned the 3rd Reich, not me. I said a large group of Scots Nats (OK Scots lefties plus Scots Nats) called Nigel Farage ‘N*z* scum’, which is a fact.
As I said I truly believe that it cost you your independence referendum, just as I believe your inaccurate, ad hominem posts are doing you no favours.
P.S. at the risk of riling you further I count Mrs Thatcher among my favourite historical figures too.

blairmore8
blairmore8
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Hear hear, Paul.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
3 years ago
Reply to  blairmore8

Thank you John.

wgeoff.56
wgeoff.56
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

“far right philosophy”? If you believe wanting to control immigration is ‘far right’ then there is no hope for you. It is also England that bears the brunt of immigration partly because of the support for it from the likes of the SNP etc.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  wgeoff.56

The SNP did not take us into the EU without a vote , or keep us there all these decades, don’t overestimate Scotland’s influence in the UK.
I don’t consider opposition to mass immigration right wing, only common sense, please don’t stereotype me.

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

‘…likening Scottish nationalism, which encompasses about half the electorate of Scotland btw…’
I think you’ll find that it’s less than half and thats the issue!! When asked the direct question on independence less than half the population wanted it. You may try and conflate other elections as being some kind of transferable barometer of ‘real’ feelings…BUT when asked cold and straight the majority simply didn’t agree with you.

No mandate…so all thats left is to shout down the opponents, spin, fudge the facts that don’t fit and try to trade on passion and sentiment instead. Poor show!

hoddlesden
hoddlesden
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Your memory is playing tricks, dear.

It was the Edinburgh Uni socialist group.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  hoddlesden

None of whom are Scots Nats Paulo? Sure about that?

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

They were mainly labour with English and American students in the van.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Absolutely sure. It was a far left group who lazy journalists labelled as Scot Nats.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

What about the guy who told Farage to shove his Union Jack up his a***?

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

One of them told Farage to shove his Union Jack up his fundament. Perhaps he was confused.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

l think it had more to do with him being a blatant racist than an actual Nazi…but it’s rather ironic given the premise of Mr Nawaz’s blog

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

The 2 leaders of that group were English and American. I believe they were Labour supporters and Farage; self dramatising fruitcake that he is, was not attacked. He was heckled and had questions asked which he dodged by diving into a pub.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

Had questions asked? The crowd were screaming “fascist scum off our streets” at a pitch designed to silence any debate – a tactic used many times by the left to no platform speakers they disagree with. One told Mr Farage to “shove your Union Jack up your a***”. Welcome to Scotland.

Salmond of the SNP’s response to Farage’s legitimate complaints was not to condemn those guilty of having assaulted freedom of speech and public debate but rather to accuse Farage of not being able to handle challenges to his policies.

Not acceptable, and I think part of the reason why independence was rejected the year after. Scottish people who value debate, manners and democratic freedoms would have voted in their droves not to hand all that over to the care of people like that.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Salmond was right. As a young teenager then man I was brought up on politicians being heckled and cat called in public meetings. I remember Wilson, Douglas-Home and Heath handling such incidents with wit and authority. Its something which Salmond and other SNP pols have had to deal with for decades.

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago

The SNP party and their followers actions, rhetoric and behaviour mirror the ‘Trans’ movement.
Both are driven principally by feelings and emotion. Their assertions and policies don’t stand up to any kind of scrutiny. Facts are viewed through the prism of the ‘desired result’ and either warped or ignored to fit. They believe (and constantly fuel the myth) they have the moral high ground and the end justifies the means, however unsavoury, undemocratic or reckless they may be. The flaws in their arguments are so apparent and their proposition so flimsy that monumental efforts are made to shut down discussion, debate or control contrary views.

Appealing to and whipping up the fervour of their followers is essential. A ‘crisis’ or “injustice’ is the breeding ground for support and provides the ammunition needed to ensure that your opponents heads don’t peak above the trenches for fear of retribution.

Where one movement denies biology, the other denies economic reason. Where one is happy to trample on the rights of 50% of the population, the other believes that less than 50% of the vote is a mandate.

Both bully, cry foul, troll, aggravate and appeal to guttural instincts that manifest in a mob mentality blind to the fact that there are other opinions, positions and realities that should be considered and discussed.

It’s a pity that the majority aren’t as organised, focused and loud…yet.

ianbain152
ianbain152
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason Norval

We will see at the ballot box how it pans out , but I am sure the British Media and political might of the Union of Bullying , crying foul , mob mentality will be used ….they tried in 2014 and just managed to get over line by using the above . It will not be so easy the next time .

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago
Reply to  ianbain152

How dare those that don’t agree with the SNP use facts and demand specifics!! No one should be subjected to the offensive nature of asking for details and having to engage in debate.
And you’re right I remember hoardes of non-SNP supporters descending on the television station offices and demanding resignations of journalists that didn’t share their views and crowds screaming at Yes voters that they should go home or aren’t ‘Real’ Scots….oh wait!!
Project Fear of Someone Finding Out That We Don’t Really Have a Proper Plan was all I saw – and the resulting resort to shouting loudly to cover that up!

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason Norval

You really should have read the pro-union news outlets which were relentlessly based on fear and negativity. And the vast majority of news outlets hate the SNP and the independence movement.

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago

By hate….you mean don’t agree with, question and pick flaws in their position? Repeatedly? And present alternative positions?

And you think that shouldn’t be allowed?

Why?

I don’t agree with Wings Over Scotland but I wouldn’t try to shut it down. I wouldn’t criticise the right to express views. I would criticise the views put forward.

Just cause you don’t like it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t occur or that it isn’t right.

Funnily enough…there is a direct correlation between weak and flawed policies and the amount of criticism that gets levelled at them. Its not negative or fear mongering to point out having a currency plans a good idea, Venezuela isn’t a great role model, Oil revenue is too volatile to trust and EU membership wasn’t a given (if even advisable etc…..)

Just because you want something doesn’t mean you have a right to it or that all other factors will miraculously fall into place.

Again…run the country well, show a proper economic plan, make the case properly, stop relying on emotion and more people will listen…and possible support it.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason Norval

Jason, why is the case for Scottish independence, so absurd? It is resource-rich and is approaching the point where it will be self-sufficient in renewable energy. Any excess will be sold-off at a profit and the companies involved will, of course, also make a healthy profit. It has world class, successful industries like tourism and whisky and has, over the years and thanks to the Scottish Government, an improving infrastructure. I fail to understand why people like you and others like Majjid Nawaz, who I agree with on many other issues, argue the case for Scotland the exceptional, yet don’t blink an eyelid when other less fortunate countries like Slovakia aspire for, and get, their independence whilst remaining in the EU, and benefit in the process.

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago

As far as I’m aware Slovakia became independent in the early 90’s and joined the EU and Nato in the early/mid 2000’s but sure…the SNP won’t worry about details like that.
The SNP fought for decades for the referendum and pitched in with a one-pager on the economy, no plan on currency and a laughable determination use oil revenue as the answer to every question as to where future funding would come from for defence, more schools, free prescriptions, creating a central bank and generating a rainy day fund!
Salmond happily stood front and centre projecting a rise in oil prices that no one else dared suggest just because they needed it to say what they wanted to get over the line!!
Scotlands deficit is the worst in Europe at 7% (Slovakia is 0.5% if your interested) pre-covid – but lets go with the renewable energy sector as the new panecea. International exports totalled a heady £350k in 2019 so in SNPland that should be more than enough!!!
Make the economic case properly, get the house in order and govern effectively and you won’t have to rely on emotion and fabrication to get votes – you’d have mine too!

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason Norval

Jason, you make a very basic mistake: Scotland at the time of writing this is not a national country but a notional one. It cannot be compared with actual existing countries because it is still part of the UK. You know that country with a national debt, up till now, of over £2 trillion! There are also the vast reserves of gas, not oil (which is more polluting) which have been found off the north west coast. Surely we will benefit from that in the future?

Jason Norval
Jason Norval
4 years ago

Well aware that Scotland is not currently a Sovereign State!! Hence the discussion?!!!
But you’ll agree that we are able to determine Scotland’s GDP, tax take, spending, population size, welfare budgets etc etc and even the subsidies it receives!
The accuracy of these points are not a matter of debate – not even for the SNP. The deficit is a matter of fact.
So, much like a company filing its year end accounts we know what the books look like. Yeah?

But I’m going to concede a point to you – you’re right….because we’re not a ‘national country’ making the assumption that we’d run the same level of deficit just isn’t fair.

We haven’t factored in all the other costs (of transition, lost markets, impact of austerity measures to make up for Barnett etc…) BUT theres a Gas field somewhere you say? When prices are at a 10 year low!!
You’re right though lets put all our chips on a finite fossil fuel that “Surely we’ll benefit from in the future!’

That sounds like a plan the grandkids will thank you for!

lawrence.john
lawrence.john
4 years ago

This whole “racism is right-wing” really, really annoys me.

Hitler. National Socialist. Racist. Left-wing.
Mosely : Fascist. Racist. Left-wing.
Le Pen. Socialist. Nationalist. (no longer racist?) Left-wing.
SNP. National Socialist. Racist. Left-wing.

The proper left-wing, with the exception of Globalists, ARE the racists. And the SNP are National Socialists, so they are NAZIs.

Please stop believing the propaganda, none of the above are right-wing in any way, they are all left-wing to the very core. And looking at a parties stance on race does NOT determine whether they are left or right, it is their economic outlook that decides that.

David Bell
David Bell
4 years ago
Reply to  lawrence.john

Very true. I always think the political spectrum is a circle with the “far right” and the “far left” occupying the same space. The best example is antisemitism. The media and the left define it is “far right” yet the extreme left of the Labour party hold antisemitic views as an integral party of their identity.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  David Bell

You may be confused about Antisemitism and the actions of the Israeli governments.

David Bell
David Bell
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

Nope. The far left often think the later justifies actions which are clearly anti Semitic and perpetuate prejudice about Jews in general eg that mural!

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  David Bell

I don’t think many think like Hitler these days.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  lawrence.john

Hitler wasn’t right wing????????
You are ignorant of history .
Check what he did to the trade unions.
He hated Bolshevism as much as the Jews

Brian McGinty
Brian McGinty
4 years ago
Reply to  lawrence.john

True fascism presented itself as neither right nor left. Hitler certainly was not left wing and he quickly dispatched the original socialist elements in the Nazi party eg the Stresser brothers as well as the trade unions .Mussolini gave up any pretence of being on the left and claimed to create a corporate state that was neither right or left .Mosely was in favour of something similar.In practice ,when in power , so called fascist governments leaned towards big business for support and for war production . I think you need to look at a little real history rather than just focusing on party names.

aitch.hooper
aitch.hooper
4 years ago
Reply to  lawrence.john

Can you give us all some evidence the SNP are racists?…your opportunity to show off

Otherwise…..

“That which can be asserted without evidence can be ignored without justification”

Jean Fothers
Jean Fothers
4 years ago
Reply to  aitch.hooper

It is hidden in plain view all the time.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Jean Fothers

So, it should be easy to find it. Let’s have some proof then.

bmccaughey66
bmccaughey66
4 years ago
Reply to  lawrence.john

Look to your royal family if your looking for Nazis. Especially Phil. 👍♥️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Jean Fothers
Jean Fothers
4 years ago
Reply to  lawrence.john

Yes, it is VERY annoying, and deliberate.
If the scotch want independence, best way to guarantee it, is to give the English a vote in the next referendum. They have really really, annoyed most of the English tax-payers who support them.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Jean Fothers

Two things Jean…Scotch is the whisky not the people (it really winds us up when ignorant English or any other nationality for that matter make this glaring error) The second error you make is supposing that England supply the funds for the Barnett Formula…last year we sent £67billion to the UK treasury from our income tax revenue…we received £37billion back as our Barnett Formula pocket money to run our country…the other £30billion is retained by Westminster to be spent on our behalf…however very little of it ever makes it’s way back over the border…so the truth is it is Scottish tax payers that support England..l can’t imagine how annoyed you’d be if the situation was really reversed…ps sorry our quest for self determination annoys you but it is a basic human right…

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Jean Fothers

Scotch is an alcoholic drink, Jean.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  lawrence.john

Lawrence, read your post again. Can you provide any examples of racism in the SNP? No, neither can I and I have been in it for almost 40 years.

Thomas Laird
Thomas Laird
4 years ago

SNP..”Nationalist” ? Surely some mistake. If so they must officially be the world’s crappest national party. Nippy Sweetie herself says she’s embarrassed by the term and wishes it had been called something else. (SCOSOC maybe?)
“Little Scotlander” is in fact a term of scorn used within Sturgeon’s Notionalist Party to describe anyone who actually believes in independence. The SNP are Little Europers who believe in a power transferal from Westminster to Brussels. Centralised power, freedom of movement( for mainly white Europeans) and a parochial narrow minded Fortress Europe mentality prevail. As evidenced by their rather shameful and pathetic singing of the European national anthem in the UK parliament. The term Independence is merely a tool to deceive the electorate. Oh, and of course journalists who take their word for it.
But I agree on the Scottish moral exceptionalism that pervades most SNP attitudes.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  Thomas Laird

We can easily equate Sturgeon’s failure to rein in the unacceptable views and behaviours of members and supporters of her party to e.g. Corbyn’s failure to deal with anti-semitism in the Labour Party. The only conclusion one can reasonably draw, given that she has not come close to rooting them out, is that she sees them as core to her overall political strategy.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

What a fanatical position you take there Paul.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

Thanks Dave, but how can it be viewed as fanatical? There are many people within Sturgeon’s movement who hold extreme positions on England and the English.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

They do exist Paul but they are a tiny minority…but it isn’t a baseless view if you know the history of Scotland’s treatment from their big next door neighbours…some hold grudges for generations…l personally have let it go to concentrate on freeing Scotland to run it’s own affairs…l do however have an extreme position regarding Westminster which is a steaming cesspit with no regard for Scotland or her people

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Perhaps you can prove that.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  John Munro

Of course he can’t.
It is just a thinly veiled piece of English arrogance, hinting that only a few mad Scots don’t want ruled by the English.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

You are quite wrong. You seem to have bought into a unionist/Tory myth, a piece of cheap propaganda.
It is the union with England that is disliked, it delivers Tory governments that we don’t like. There is nothing extreme about seeking govern your own country .
Please don’t conflate Tories with the English.
You really don’t don’t know what you are talking about Paul. Scots are friendly people, though you’ll always find a few idiots in any country, there’s absolutely no need to imagine more than there really are.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

I know precisely what I’m talking about Dave. I have met, worked and served with many Scots – friends and brothers in arms – and I agree that there is nothing wrong with wanting to govern your own country, just as I believe in the United Kingdom. What vexes me is the denial that there is an anti English problem used as a political weapon by the SNP – especially given that most of us are conservatives, with a small ‘c’. Are you saying you’d accept the United Kingdom if the Greens were running it?
Maybe you’ll get another chance at independence via a second ‘once in a generation’ referendum, but Sturgeon will need to rein in and denounce nationalist and leftist Scottish thugs as those friendly Scots you and I know will not want power to pass from London ‘Tories’ to them.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Once again, proof please.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Paul l remind you of Nicola Sturgeon’s call at her party conference for “Anyone in England to come and join us” If and when we do gain our independence l suspect there will be quite a few who will take her up on the invitation…The biggest difference between the Scottish and UK governments is that the SG govern for the benefit of the people of Scotland whilst the UK government govern for big business and rich people…

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

It is my fervent hope that everyone on the woke liberal left of politics in England take her up on that generous offer

Thomas Laird
Thomas Laird
4 years ago

The benefit of the people of Scotland? That’s a giggle.

It’s no different. It exists to leech off the taxpayer and fill politicians pockets.

Government is a cancer. Dressing it up in tartan doesn’t cure it.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

There are many people in Dordogne, Tuscany, the Costa del Sol and the west of Ireland who hold the same views. Can you explain that?

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

Can you explain what Sturgeon is doing to root them out James? Perhaps she needs a Baroness Chakrabarti to come and write a report into it. That seemed to work for Corbyn until the Equality and Human Rights Commission got involved.

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Pretty simple actually. Anyone who is an SNP member found making anti-English statements will be disciplined and probably expelled from the party. Unlike Tories found making anti-Scottish statements.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Who? Can you name names?

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

The equation of both your examples is that neither of them are true…There is no anti-semitism in the Labour party this was a fabrication with no evidence by Jewish Tories to discredit Corbyn…Just as Mr Nawaz tries to discredit the SNP because he clearly doesn’t like them…

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

You have gone way down in my estimations Craig.

Keir Starmer (he’s the leader of the Labour Party by the way) confirmed the antisemitism problem in the Labour Party and called it a stain on the party that he vowed to expunge AND APOLOGISED TO THE JEWISH COMMUNITY FOR IT.

A fabrication you say?

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

No just Starmer trying to take the high ground…the stain was deposited by Jewish Tories…where’s all the evidence of it? if it’s so well known there must be evidence???

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

Come on Craig. You seem like a top bloke but surely you can’t believe that. Will you accept the report of the unprecedented investigation into Labour antisemitism by The Equality and Human Rights Commission?

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

I will indeed…looking forward to it…l have to point out that Israel are masters at turning criticism of their policy and treatment of Palestinians into acts of anti-semitism…

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago

They most certainly are.
There is nothing as strong as playing the race card these days.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago

What about the terrible things done by Palestinians to their fellow Palestinians ie Hamas? It isn’t fair to single out Israel when there are far worse groups and governments in the Middle East.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago

Really James? Worse than Israel? I think not…they treat their neighbours abysmally and steal their land at every opportunity…l must be anti-semetic for pointing that out though l guess?

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Very small minority, Paul. I personally don’t know any and I am a member.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

No problem then.

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

No. Not as far as I can see. There is less racism in Scotland and I have seen that in the schools I have taught in. It just isn’t an issue. Sorry to disappoint you.

Paul Theato
Paul Theato
4 years ago

Not disappointed.

Thomas Laird
Thomas Laird
4 years ago

Possibly as there are less immigrants in Scotland? Or do you maintain Scottish people are just inherently less racist? That would seem…well…racist?

briankerrera119
briankerrera119
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Theato

Must have been a big problem. It seems to have been a powerful
laxative down in Westminster!

David Bell
David Bell
4 years ago
Reply to  Thomas Laird

One thing you need to be careful of is the SNP traditionally are anti EU and Anti Nato and they have previously campaigned to leave both. The current leadership and a majority of the party are pro EU but approximately one third of SNP supporters voted to leave the EU.

So you have described the current policy but leadership and policy can change. A successful BRexit and an economic crises in the Eurozone will see the SNP change it’s views.

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  David Bell

Which would be sensible

jamescormack1956
jamescormack1956
4 years ago
Reply to  David Bell

Dream on. It won’t happen.

David Bell
David Bell
4 years ago

You mean the SNP will not change policy if they think the change gives them the best chance of independence? I think it’s you who is dreaming. They have done it before and they will do it again. That is what a one issue part like the SNP do. They view everything through the prism of that one issue and set policy to further that issue.

A great case study is why the SNP changed policy on the EEC in the late 80’s. At the time the tag “Separatist” hung heavy around their neck and cost them votes. They took a pragmatic decision that they had to change policy to say an independent Scotland would stay in the EEC. The ideological backing was to promote independence the support of EU membership is a pragmatic necessity!

Dave Dine
Dave Dine
4 years ago
Reply to  Thomas Laird

Certainly their leadership are EU fanatics, but joining the EU would be for the Scottish people to decide.
As for Moral exceptionalism, you must have seen more of that than me, or perhaps you just believe England has some god given right to rule Scotland?

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Dine

By the 1707 Act of Union Scotland, was ‘bought and sold for English gold’.
Do you really deny this?

David Brown
David Brown
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark Corby

Only because Scotland had effectively bankrupted herself with the Darien scheme. There were also plenty in England who opposed the Union on the grounds that it was the bailout of a profligate neighbour.

craigmacfarlane0
craigmacfarlane0
4 years ago
Reply to  David Brown

You neglected to mention that it was our lovely neighbours who sabotaged the Darien scheme at every opportunity…

Mark Corby
Mark Corby
4 years ago
Reply to  David Brown

I am glad you picked on the Darien fiasco. So what is your opinion?
Were many Englishman correct in regarding the Union as the “bailout of a profligate neighbour “?
Is so, what wonderful modern parallel don’t you think?

John Munro
John Munro
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark Corby

A bailout was so welcome that the English government threatened mass deportation of Scots living in England, imposed a naval blockade and readied a couple of armies for a full scale invasion unless the Scots agreed to Union.