In a rather different way, Mary Harrington’s article could be read as making the very same point: we’re witnessing our political sphere retreating into survival mode; survival amidst the complexities unleashed by the internet. These complexities involve both the political and personal, hence the relevance of Lasch.
MH eviscerates the political landscape in the UK with an awareness of someone with the hinterland of both the internet generation but also a deeper and wider perspective. Is there an equivalent voice in the US? A successor to Lasch, perhaps?
philip kern
9 months ago
The danger of UnHerd is that I’m teased with far more books than I can ever read.
This article made me wonder two things. Why has the US produced only one Trump with no obvious successor (i.e. a candidate who doesn’t have all his baggage)? And why did the US, a country I loved (much like I love London though I will likely never again live in the UK) come undone? The article suggests answers to this second question that make answers to the first more elusive.
If Trump’s struggle with his baggage is what makes him relatable to voters, “Trump sans baggage” isn’t a realistic goal. Non-elite voters are in a bind, as all credible politicians are elite, with commitments to elite causes. Even Bernie Sanders had clearly been co-opted by his second run. So you need an elite politician credibly in conflict with the elite power structure.
Trump is first and foremost a celebrity. To recreate Trump, you would need a longtime uniparty donor class celebrity with liberal leanings and a massive personality that’s willing to break rank.
It’s probably not feasible or desirable.
j watson
9 months ago
Not another Private Fraser! ‘We’re all doomed Captain Mainwaring’.
Good grief, but seeing the ‘woe is me’ comedy a better way forward.
When folks talk about how terrible things are, (for some that is true and growing inequality must be tackled) I feel this tug to go and watch the latest on the James Watt telescope and look forward to the next phases of the Artemis Moon programme in a way I haven’t since watching Apollo. For all the talk about decline we remain at the cutting edge of human discovery and endeavour with the US leading. There’s something wonderous about that and it couldn’t happen if the whole edifice was coming undone.
I’d very much agree about the wider point i think you’re trying to make; however, when looked at as a commentary on our politics, the relevance is only too obvious. That doesn’t mean we’re “doomed”, and there’s no need to (as i see it) trivialise the issue with that kind of hyperbole.
Trying to buck the ‘woe is us’ brigade out of it’s nonsense isn’t that trivial I think and humour can make folks snap out of their stupor sometimes faster than otherwise might. Worth a try at least.
AJ Mac
9 months ago
Despondency–and the desperate reactions it sponsors–is indeed a “grave danger”. Can one of these politically astute observers, such as Schullenberger or Harrington, please venture to propose some workable, or at least possible, way put of this mess? Otherwise we end up with little more than a self-aware futility. Perhaps that’s one definition of the human condition, but it’s a very cynical one.
I personally think nearly all of us, me included, need to begin with more love, understanding, and forgiveness for the people in our households, neighborhoods, and countries. But that doesn’t seem to be growing in popularity either. I found this to be a worthwhile article but this website–in this way very much in lockstep with the Herd– has a pretty insistent overall negativity that is very dispiriting.
It hurts my little American feelings. I stand on–or stagger back toward–a defiant hope, with or without falsifiable cause. Even in a zeitgeist where rivers of information make tiny rivulets of knowledge, with the faintest trickle of wisdom.
I subscribe to Unherd and Triggernometry. Both outlets provide astute insight into the source(s) and nature of our current predicament in the West; both outlets devote little space to possible solutions to our problems, especially our fractured society.
Every now and then I drop a plea into the comments section, in the probably vain hope Unherd/Triggernometry management reads the comments, for articles/discussions about possible routes to a more hopeful future for the West. Apparently my pleas fall on deaf ears.
I agree, and as a Canadian, the defiant hope you describe is something I always wished we picked up more of from you Americans.
I too like to dissect problems with things I see, but the point of that, to me, is to find solutions that could make things better.
Otherwise, why not just ignore the negatives and live blissfully unaware? What’s the point of dwelling on problems if it doesn’t lead to something positive?
As a Canada-born dual citizen with extended family up North, that makes sense to me in general terms. But there is a lot of despondency and cynicism run amok down here, perhaps more than what I glimpse up there as an observer an visitor. More of a land of extremes on this side of the border, I think. Would it be somewhat fair to say that the typical Canadian attitude is more often one of “pleasant resignation”?
No Western country has cornered the market on hyper-informed fatalism or whatnot. I can be a gloom-and-doomster too, but having come out the other side of multiple severe clinical depressions I didn’t think would end (in my younger years), I’ve cut down on that.
*Thinking about what my ancestors–say those who moved from Illinois to Alberta to homestead about 1910–might think of the struggles of me or my present-day fellow North Americans really brings out the conservative or “kids these days!” side of me.
Pleasant resignation might be one way to put it, but I’d call it complacency. Plenty of people love to talk about problems and how someone should fix them, but few actually take initiative or think through workable solutions. Our housing crisis is a prime example – a massive drain on productivity, facing similar issues as other places but compounded by an almost unimaginable level of inertia.
That seems like a fair term for it too. The States tend to have more energetic political and social actors, but with plenty of wasted energy. Wish I could say we Yanks offer many examples of productive engagement or practical compromise. Even agreeing to disagree–without mutual condemnation–would represent progress for most of us.
Well said Mr. Tolstoy Ms. Clementine.
I defiantly hope we can better recognize kinship across difference. But even two full siblings can view one another as strangers or enemies.
Brad Sealand
9 months ago
My wife and I were at the University of Rochester (US) as grad students with Lasch in the ’80s. We always believed his pessimism was a bit over the top — but now we are his biggest fans. His books read like a perfect prediction of the current American political dilemma — and remember, this was all before social media, and mostly before the Internet became omnipresent.
Inevitable journey as one gets older – ‘the past was better, I’m grumpy about the present and god help us with the future’ etc. Nothing new here. 90% of us older sorts travel the same road, even though when younger we said we never would. In truth it’s neuronal replication that’s slowing
But maybe they have a good reason(s)?
Alot of grumpiness here from the regulars here you’d have to agree wouldn’t you? We don’t know the demographic but I suspect we both know we all not Gen Alpha.
I’m not grumpy, I’m happy. And from what I see, Christopher Lasch was very observant and insightful.
And by the way, neurons don’t replicate in mammals, including humans. Except olfactory neurons, which don’t have much to do with your emotional mood.
If you are a goldfish or a salamander, your experience may be different. And you might also live longer. But I suspect you are a person like myself. Life is short; lighten up and enjoy it.
Colorado UnHerd
9 months ago
Insightful and illuminating. Re. this:
” … it is far easier (for leaders) to retreat into the minimalist politics of survival and promise to fend off the feared enemy for a few more years. The indefinite perpetuation of this despondent state of affairs — and not the other spectres so often conjured up by political fearmongers of all stripes — is the gravest danger we face.”
This certainly applies to fearmongering around a vote for RFK, Jr., the candidate who most embodies the possibility of positive change. Biden supporters stoke fear by saying voting for Kennedy elects Trump; Trump supporters stoke fear by saying voting for Kennedy elects Biden. Yet a vote for either Biden or Trump means exactly “perpetuation of this despondent state of affairs,” and polls consistently show the majority of voters want neither.
Perhaps no individual can substantially right America’s sinking ship, but I’d sure like to see Kennedy given the chance.
Harrydog
9 months ago
Maybe Trump’s policies and message are simply more appealing to the radically progressive, racist, and divisive alternatives that have been enacted over the past four years. Just make a (partial) list:
Money printing, spending and inflation and the unconstitutional student loan bailout; Overly reactionary energy policies; Illegal immigration – 10 million and rising; Gender Policy being enforced through Title 9. Now those accused of sexual harassment on campus will be denied due process as we go back to Obama era prosecution practices. Oh, and please note – you can call for the extermination of Israel(with all that that entails), but if you misgender someone, watch out!; Weaponizing the legal system to makeup for policy failures; The FBI and CIA colluding with big tech to silence difference of opinion. Pushed for then pulled back on have a Department of Misinformation (aka the Ministry of Truth); The Afghanistan debacle and now the Ukraine Quagmire; Cozying up to Iran; Constantly playing the race card; Constantly invoking the danger of the radical right when the radical left has raged largely unchecked from the Antifa/BLM riots and looting (although “mostly peaceful”) to the Pro-Hamas and anti-American foolishness on campuses.
Ex Nihilo
9 months ago
Of the making of many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Qoheleth 12:12
Armies of academics, pundits, politicos, and celebrities jostle for the chance to interpret for us in sweeping terms the ills of the world. They all want to paint on a large canvas depicting current and historical tectonic shifts with bold strokes. All compete to be the interpreter, the explainer, the oracle of our age. All is reduced to “systems”: governance, education, business, economy. Adjust or reject the system and all will be well.
Perhaps in the end we would do better to abandon this babel of contentious philosophizing in favor of all of us individually attending to what personally surrounds us that we can actually influence. If more workers worked; more students studied; more parents parented; more teachers taught, the world might actually improve. There is a kind of moral laziness and hypocrisy that too often attends rumination about altering systems. In a culture populated by too much individual laziness, dishonesty, unfaithfulness, greed, envy, and. cowardice it is unlikely that system alteration or regime change will ameliorate our woes. Maybe we have absurd leaders to choose from because we have become absurd ourselves and have not the humility to see it. Of course, there still exist those who get up every day and do their best to be decent human beings, without whom the world would stop. But are there still enough of them and for how long?
Utter
9 months ago
“”I despise the cowardly clinging to life, purely for the sake of life, that seems so deeply ingrained in the American temperament.”
I guess we know where he stands on assisted dying. He clearly had moral bravery, stating clearly, bluntly that which vanities and presumption hide; though he also seems to have been susceptible to intellectual grand narratives – steeping himself in certain isms (cultural-marxism, Freudianism, populism), using thse Redoubts to better attack other isms (liberalism, cultural narcissism etc).
When people don’t realise that everything they experience/think/decide/act is ‘self’ (mind) – from notions of what a pencil is, to God, they may excuse themselves readily (exempt themselves from responsibility) in the name of God/goodness/the devil…or any other abstract they care to cite.
Duane M
9 months ago
Christopher Lasch wrote with visionary clarity.
Why did the US come undone? I believe that is because it has always been focused on the individual, whereas the UK has retained much more social fabric (even if it is growing threadbare). Those who first came to America were a mix of exiles and adventurers. Whichever they were, they left behind the strong kinship relations that were present in their homelands.
In my lifetime I have witnessed an acceleration of individualism in America, reflected in weaker family ties, more dependence on nuclear families rather than extended families, increased marital unhappiness correlating with the increased pressure on the married pair, and increased isolation and loneliness.
And I agree with Christopher Lasch that the narcissism is as much a defensive reaction as a hedonistic urge. People are suffering greatly from emptiness, and all they can see to do about it is to treat their individual emptiness, because there is no vision here of an interconnected, interdependent society. There is no template or example for that, anywhere I look in this culture. While the decline of sociality may be happening elsewhere (or everywhere), the effects are more pronounced in America because it was so individualistic already.
The exception is when I look across the road at my Amish neighbors. Who dress alike and share beliefs and values and extended families, and work together very much. I’m not ready to join that culture, but clearly it works.
Matt B
9 months ago
Not so sure Revolt of The Elites was forgotten. Worth reading the dust jacket of the original, replete with plaudits, including from NYT and talking heads from a wide political spectrum. Debate then perhaps wad a bit less polarised and people saw that Lasch had a few good points. How others have seized on them and used the book is something else, but neither Lasch nor Wendell Berry were MAGA per se, as some pundits now assert
Well that was depressing!
In a rather different way, Mary Harrington’s article could be read as making the very same point: we’re witnessing our political sphere retreating into survival mode; survival amidst the complexities unleashed by the internet. These complexities involve both the political and personal, hence the relevance of Lasch.
MH eviscerates the political landscape in the UK with an awareness of someone with the hinterland of both the internet generation but also a deeper and wider perspective. Is there an equivalent voice in the US? A successor to Lasch, perhaps?
The danger of UnHerd is that I’m teased with far more books than I can ever read.
This article made me wonder two things. Why has the US produced only one Trump with no obvious successor (i.e. a candidate who doesn’t have all his baggage)? And why did the US, a country I loved (much like I love London though I will likely never again live in the UK) come undone? The article suggests answers to this second question that make answers to the first more elusive.
If Trump’s struggle with his baggage is what makes him relatable to voters, “Trump sans baggage” isn’t a realistic goal. Non-elite voters are in a bind, as all credible politicians are elite, with commitments to elite causes. Even Bernie Sanders had clearly been co-opted by his second run. So you need an elite politician credibly in conflict with the elite power structure.
Trump is first and foremost a celebrity. To recreate Trump, you would need a longtime uniparty donor class celebrity with liberal leanings and a massive personality that’s willing to break rank.
It’s probably not feasible or desirable.
Not another Private Fraser! ‘We’re all doomed Captain Mainwaring’.
Good grief, but seeing the ‘woe is me’ comedy a better way forward.
When folks talk about how terrible things are, (for some that is true and growing inequality must be tackled) I feel this tug to go and watch the latest on the James Watt telescope and look forward to the next phases of the Artemis Moon programme in a way I haven’t since watching Apollo. For all the talk about decline we remain at the cutting edge of human discovery and endeavour with the US leading. There’s something wonderous about that and it couldn’t happen if the whole edifice was coming undone.
I’d very much agree about the wider point i think you’re trying to make; however, when looked at as a commentary on our politics, the relevance is only too obvious. That doesn’t mean we’re “doomed”, and there’s no need to (as i see it) trivialise the issue with that kind of hyperbole.
Trying to buck the ‘woe is us’ brigade out of it’s nonsense isn’t that trivial I think and humour can make folks snap out of their stupor sometimes faster than otherwise might. Worth a try at least.
Despondency–and the desperate reactions it sponsors–is indeed a “grave danger”. Can one of these politically astute observers, such as Schullenberger or Harrington, please venture to propose some workable, or at least possible, way put of this mess? Otherwise we end up with little more than a self-aware futility. Perhaps that’s one definition of the human condition, but it’s a very cynical one.
I personally think nearly all of us, me included, need to begin with more love, understanding, and forgiveness for the people in our households, neighborhoods, and countries. But that doesn’t seem to be growing in popularity either. I found this to be a worthwhile article but this website–in this way very much in lockstep with the Herd– has a pretty insistent overall negativity that is very dispiriting.
It hurts my little American feelings. I stand on–or stagger back toward–a defiant hope, with or without falsifiable cause. Even in a zeitgeist where rivers of information make tiny rivulets of knowledge, with the faintest trickle of wisdom.
I subscribe to Unherd and Triggernometry. Both outlets provide astute insight into the source(s) and nature of our current predicament in the West; both outlets devote little space to possible solutions to our problems, especially our fractured society.
Every now and then I drop a plea into the comments section, in the probably vain hope Unherd/Triggernometry management reads the comments, for articles/discussions about possible routes to a more hopeful future for the West. Apparently my pleas fall on deaf ears.
I agree, and as a Canadian, the defiant hope you describe is something I always wished we picked up more of from you Americans.
I too like to dissect problems with things I see, but the point of that, to me, is to find solutions that could make things better.
Otherwise, why not just ignore the negatives and live blissfully unaware? What’s the point of dwelling on problems if it doesn’t lead to something positive?
As a Canada-born dual citizen with extended family up North, that makes sense to me in general terms. But there is a lot of despondency and cynicism run amok down here, perhaps more than what I glimpse up there as an observer an visitor. More of a land of extremes on this side of the border, I think. Would it be somewhat fair to say that the typical Canadian attitude is more often one of “pleasant resignation”?
No Western country has cornered the market on hyper-informed fatalism or whatnot. I can be a gloom-and-doomster too, but having come out the other side of multiple severe clinical depressions I didn’t think would end (in my younger years), I’ve cut down on that.
*Thinking about what my ancestors–say those who moved from Illinois to Alberta to homestead about 1910–might think of the struggles of me or my present-day fellow North Americans really brings out the conservative or “kids these days!” side of me.
Pleasant resignation might be one way to put it, but I’d call it complacency. Plenty of people love to talk about problems and how someone should fix them, but few actually take initiative or think through workable solutions. Our housing crisis is a prime example – a massive drain on productivity, facing similar issues as other places but compounded by an almost unimaginable level of inertia.
That seems like a fair term for it too. The States tend to have more energetic political and social actors, but with plenty of wasted energy. Wish I could say we Yanks offer many examples of productive engagement or practical compromise. Even agreeing to disagree–without mutual condemnation–would represent progress for most of us.
Every unhappy family (or country) is unhappy in its own way, I guess!
Well said
Mr. TolstoyMs. Clementine.I defiantly hope we can better recognize kinship across difference. But even two full siblings can view one another as strangers or enemies.
My wife and I were at the University of Rochester (US) as grad students with Lasch in the ’80s. We always believed his pessimism was a bit over the top — but now we are his biggest fans. His books read like a perfect prediction of the current American political dilemma — and remember, this was all before social media, and mostly before the Internet became omnipresent.
Inevitable journey as one gets older – ‘the past was better, I’m grumpy about the present and god help us with the future’ etc. Nothing new here. 90% of us older sorts travel the same road, even though when younger we said we never would. In truth it’s neuronal replication that’s slowing
By all accounts it seems to be the young who are deeply unhappy.
But maybe they have a good reason(s)?
Alot of grumpiness here from the regulars here you’d have to agree wouldn’t you? We don’t know the demographic but I suspect we both know we all not Gen Alpha.
I’m not grumpy, I’m happy. And from what I see, Christopher Lasch was very observant and insightful.
And by the way, neurons don’t replicate in mammals, including humans. Except olfactory neurons, which don’t have much to do with your emotional mood.
If you are a goldfish or a salamander, your experience may be different. And you might also live longer. But I suspect you are a person like myself. Life is short; lighten up and enjoy it.
Insightful and illuminating. Re. this:
” … it is far easier (for leaders) to retreat into the minimalist politics of survival and promise to fend off the feared enemy for a few more years. The indefinite perpetuation of this despondent state of affairs — and not the other spectres so often conjured up by political fearmongers of all stripes — is the gravest danger we face.”
This certainly applies to fearmongering around a vote for RFK, Jr., the candidate who most embodies the possibility of positive change. Biden supporters stoke fear by saying voting for Kennedy elects Trump; Trump supporters stoke fear by saying voting for Kennedy elects Biden. Yet a vote for either Biden or Trump means exactly “perpetuation of this despondent state of affairs,” and polls consistently show the majority of voters want neither.
Perhaps no individual can substantially right America’s sinking ship, but I’d sure like to see Kennedy given the chance.
Maybe Trump’s policies and message are simply more appealing to the radically progressive, racist, and divisive alternatives that have been enacted over the past four years. Just make a (partial) list:
Money printing, spending and inflation and the unconstitutional student loan bailout; Overly reactionary energy policies; Illegal immigration – 10 million and rising; Gender Policy being enforced through Title 9. Now those accused of sexual harassment on campus will be denied due process as we go back to Obama era prosecution practices. Oh, and please note – you can call for the extermination of Israel(with all that that entails), but if you misgender someone, watch out!; Weaponizing the legal system to makeup for policy failures; The FBI and CIA colluding with big tech to silence difference of opinion. Pushed for then pulled back on have a Department of Misinformation (aka the Ministry of Truth); The Afghanistan debacle and now the Ukraine Quagmire; Cozying up to Iran; Constantly playing the race card; Constantly invoking the danger of the radical right when the radical left has raged largely unchecked from the Antifa/BLM riots and looting (although “mostly peaceful”) to the Pro-Hamas and anti-American foolishness on campuses.
Of the making of many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Qoheleth 12:12
Armies of academics, pundits, politicos, and celebrities jostle for the chance to interpret for us in sweeping terms the ills of the world. They all want to paint on a large canvas depicting current and historical tectonic shifts with bold strokes. All compete to be the interpreter, the explainer, the oracle of our age. All is reduced to “systems”: governance, education, business, economy. Adjust or reject the system and all will be well.
Perhaps in the end we would do better to abandon this babel of contentious philosophizing in favor of all of us individually attending to what personally surrounds us that we can actually influence. If more workers worked; more students studied; more parents parented; more teachers taught, the world might actually improve. There is a kind of moral laziness and hypocrisy that too often attends rumination about altering systems. In a culture populated by too much individual laziness, dishonesty, unfaithfulness, greed, envy, and. cowardice it is unlikely that system alteration or regime change will ameliorate our woes. Maybe we have absurd leaders to choose from because we have become absurd ourselves and have not the humility to see it. Of course, there still exist those who get up every day and do their best to be decent human beings, without whom the world would stop. But are there still enough of them and for how long?
“”I despise the cowardly clinging to life, purely for the sake of life, that seems so deeply ingrained in the American temperament.”
I guess we know where he stands on assisted dying. He clearly had moral bravery, stating clearly, bluntly that which vanities and presumption hide; though he also seems to have been susceptible to intellectual grand narratives – steeping himself in certain isms (cultural-marxism, Freudianism, populism), using thse Redoubts to better attack other isms (liberalism, cultural narcissism etc).
When the self is god, Hell expands.
When people don’t realise that everything they experience/think/decide/act is ‘self’ (mind) – from notions of what a pencil is, to God, they may excuse themselves readily (exempt themselves from responsibility) in the name of God/goodness/the devil…or any other abstract they care to cite.
Christopher Lasch wrote with visionary clarity.
Why did the US come undone? I believe that is because it has always been focused on the individual, whereas the UK has retained much more social fabric (even if it is growing threadbare). Those who first came to America were a mix of exiles and adventurers. Whichever they were, they left behind the strong kinship relations that were present in their homelands.
In my lifetime I have witnessed an acceleration of individualism in America, reflected in weaker family ties, more dependence on nuclear families rather than extended families, increased marital unhappiness correlating with the increased pressure on the married pair, and increased isolation and loneliness.
And I agree with Christopher Lasch that the narcissism is as much a defensive reaction as a hedonistic urge. People are suffering greatly from emptiness, and all they can see to do about it is to treat their individual emptiness, because there is no vision here of an interconnected, interdependent society. There is no template or example for that, anywhere I look in this culture. While the decline of sociality may be happening elsewhere (or everywhere), the effects are more pronounced in America because it was so individualistic already.
The exception is when I look across the road at my Amish neighbors. Who dress alike and share beliefs and values and extended families, and work together very much. I’m not ready to join that culture, but clearly it works.
Not so sure Revolt of The Elites was forgotten. Worth reading the dust jacket of the original, replete with plaudits, including from NYT and talking heads from a wide political spectrum. Debate then perhaps wad a bit less polarised and people saw that Lasch had a few good points. How others have seized on them and used the book is something else, but neither Lasch nor Wendell Berry were MAGA per se, as some pundits now assert