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Benjamin Greco
Benjamin Greco
4 months ago

I knew I was on the wrong side of the generation gap but how did we manage to raise two generations of antisemites? What are we teaching them? The Left has become a grotesque, scabrous, cretinous, and dangerous monstrosity. If our children are the future, then our future is bleak, and we have no one but ourselves to blame. 

Stuart Bennett
Stuart Bennett
4 months ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

In a very unpleasant way the Jihadists have more integrity than the Left. The terrorists say they want a global Islamic state and will kill all unbelievers to get it, then they act accordingly. A warped example of integrity but honest nonetheless. The Left on the other hand claim to want to make the world a lovely, beautiful, fair and kind place when what they really want is absolute power over a wasteland. They both want the same thing effectively it’s just the left are lying about it.

0 0
0 0
4 months ago
Reply to  Stuart Bennett

What’s worse is at the leftist aren’t even really conscious about their motivations, they want power but they rationalize that desire for power out to help others. They not only lie to others, the lie to themselves. It’s all very subconscious and they act on impulses and that’s the reason why there’s there is no long-term planning. Which is the reason why the left is filled with chaos and infighting and the things they control are in such an awful shape.

Last edited 4 months ago by 0 0
John Riordan
John Riordan
4 months ago
Reply to  Stuart Bennett

I agree with you about the modern Left, but what amazes me is that so few people seem capable of understanding this in general.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Sadly that is true. Even so we must still follow what we know to be right even if we are in the minority.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  Stuart Bennett

Perhaps the feminists are showing their true colours showing what is underneath it all. Many of the bastions of so called truth are showing that they are not bastions of truth. It will save me a lot of money not contributing to these organisations.

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
4 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Why is always the “Left” that is to blame? Are the “Left” a homogenous group that all think in exactly the same way, whereas the “Right” are intellectual thinkers. I don’t think so. There are as many shades of Left as there are people, and guess what, we don’t all think/act the same. It is a very lazy argument to simply blame Left or Right for what is wrong in the world, a very American point of view. Where are the shades of grey that make up the rest of the world’s politics and thinking?

Robert Harris
Robert Harris
3 months ago
Reply to  Stuart Bennett

Just like Nazis and Communists. In “Mein Kampf” Hitler laid out exactly what he wanted to do and then he did it. Lenin’s crowd, on the other hand, promised a workers’ paradise and we all know how well that worked out.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
4 months ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

Read Pascal Bruckner’s The Tears of the White Man. In France in post 1968 , Marxism evolves to create Third Worldism. First, Western World is bad, Third World is good.
Marxism start with Marx which is economic and class warfare. Post 1919, the Frankfurt School evolves Cultural Marxism: in the 1930s Gramsci wages war on Christianity and tells people to take over cultural institutions. In 1955 China splits from USSR to create Brown or Third World Communism. In 1960s Frantz Fanon further develops Third World Communism supported by Sartre who is now a Maoist. Israel is Western and first World so is bad and Palestinian Arabs are Third World so good. Post 1968, left wing German terrorists killed Jewish people such as at Entebbe .
Third worldism attracts masochistic under achieving middle class graduate left wingers who are of no practical use to society, neither craftsmen or engineers such providing basic infrastructure, food, energy , strctures, etc.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

I do not think terrorist killed any Jewish people at Entebbe

Alan Hawkes
Alan Hawkes
4 months ago

Because the IDF got there and stopped them.

Michael Drucker
Michael Drucker
4 months ago

Dora Bloch. Google her moron

John Williams
John Williams
4 months ago

I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure she was shot by Idi Amin as she lay in bed in a clinic. I know that’s a fine distinction as he was an Islamist who murdered a helpless old woman.

Last edited 4 months ago by John Williams
Mike Downing
Mike Downing
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Have you read Bruckner’s other book ‘Perpetual Euphoria ‘? It’s a brilliant dissection of the modern obligation to be happy to the max and endlessly or else. Quote after quote on every page. One of the funniest, most literate and insightful books I’ve ever read.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
4 months ago
Reply to  Mike Downing

No and thank you for suggestion. He, along with D Murray are one of the few intellectuals who have a rational insigth into Post Modern Marxist politics.

David B
David B
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Check out Helen Dale and Lorenzo Warby too.

Geraldine Kelley
Geraldine Kelley
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

You are absolutely right. Most of these narcissistic, politically illiterate young people – many of them female- should never have been anywhere near a university and, as they are now constituted, have not received any meaningful education at all. They are without purpose or direction, hence they jump to whatever cult is is currently fashionable.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago

I don’t think I would hire any of those types. Sadly the public sector is flooded with them at our expense. It’s an easy living with gold plated pensions.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago

Yes, cults like freedom and sovereignty you mean?

Michael Layman
Michael Layman
4 months ago

Unfortunately many of them have obtained positions in the universities to propogate their lack of education.

Jeremy Daw
Jeremy Daw
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

STEM students support Israel in the same proportion that Humanites support Palestine. One sees a future in which they can thrive, the other does not.

El Uro
El Uro
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Daw

The problem is that those who go into STEM are those who are a priori smart enough to understand physics, mathematics and everything else too. Those who understand nothing about anything become humanites. Well, since there are more fools than smart ones…

Last edited 4 months ago by El Uro
BradK
BradK
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Daw

More to your point, the former seek to build the future while the latter obsesses about the past as pretext for destruction.

Leonel SIlva Rocha
Leonel SIlva Rocha
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Superb comment, Charles. Thank you!

James Twigg
James Twigg
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

It all comes down to “makers & takers” and the parasites are showing there true colors.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
4 months ago
Reply to  James Twigg

Very good summary, I will remember that.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  James Twigg

Many of these type of students would not survive in the makers and therefore end up with the takers of our taxes.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

 masochistic under achieving middle class graduate left wingers who are of no practical use to society

Then Blair created millions of them in the UK with University for all

Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
4 months ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

Correct. Two ghastly ideological forces – identitarianism and hateful Deobandi Islamism – have combined under the Blairite/EU/Fake Tory New Order to produce more than one generation of – we now see – Massacre condoning young muslims and armies of dead eyed leftist scum pretending they want ‘peace’. The State Equality Laws since 2010 – propaged via all State institutions from schools to police and state media – and its subsequent toxic cultural mutation have overturned all rational thinking with its crude Victim v Oppressor credo. The Gazans and Palestinian sit on the very top of the Victim Hierarchy along with the ex criminal George Floyd. And the Jews – seen as Ultra Whites and Western colonizers – are the ultimate Oppressors worthy of hate at the bottom. The UK is now a world leader in youth anti semitism. Bravo This same State ideology says women have penises remember, so why are we suprised to see crazed Tower Hamlet kids marching (in school hours) on our streets right now? A few more History lessons about our values would be better. There can be no communal harmony when so many are brainwashed by teachers parents and social media groupthink into such violent thinking – on Islam, Jews and on progressive Identitarianism. But this is what 20 years of human rights and entitlement culture, 20 years of mass uncontrolled immigration and poor cultural assimiliation, 15 years of privileged legal rights for non whites and the total knee bend to their street Mobs by our gutless State, has led us to. Meanwhile a teacher sits in hiding and Jews see kidnap posters defaced. What a beautiful world you progressives ideologues and state appeasers have made.

Alan Derek
Alan Derek
4 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

So very well put. You have covered every facet of the social structure as it has developed. I would like to use this with your permission

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
4 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

I agree with you, but the far-right (neo Nazis , white supremacy groups)has hated Jews far longer than the progressives. They have been behind all antisemitism attacks until now. I’m speaking as an American.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

I cannot see why they call the Nazis right wing. It was very much about the state as far as I can see. One could hardly call slave labour private enterprise or democracy.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

And Israel currently has the most far right government in its history


Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

The scripture show clearly that all nations will be against Israel but that is not the last word.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
4 months ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

If this is so why did it take so long for us to realise it or if we did realise it why is it people are only now speaking out?

S Wilkinson
S Wilkinson
4 months ago

Apathy and complacency.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
4 months ago

Two things: a disbelief that it was happening, then a fear of drawing attention to yourself in the world they created.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
4 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

I will give you another explanation.
Our ruling elites – politicians, MSM, educational establishment and multi-national corporations were right behind the  “the grotesque, scabrous, cretinous, and dangerous monstrosity” when it was only anti-white and anti-west, and anyone who spoke-out faced cancellation and loss of employment.
It was only when it turn anti-Jewish that this coalition started to fracture

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
4 months ago

It is quite amazing to see the number of self-proclaimed leftists coming out and reversing course over this. Perhaps there is hope after all.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
4 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

I can’t see it. This is a single issue and when the fuss dies down they will all return to type with a bit of sematic obfuscation thrown in
I remember not long after BLM kicked off and they stated to turn their fire onto the Jewish community only to get quickly slapped down.
I think Morgoth made a comment at the time about forgetting who your masters are.
Have you noticed how many of the leftists reversing course happen to be Jewish. Race will out

Last edited 4 months ago by Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Michael McElwee
Michael McElwee
4 months ago

Blaming or hating an innocent victim stems from the need to protect one’s concept of reality. “You deserve what you get” is a kind of thinking closely associated with progressivism. “It is not truth qua truth which brings calm, but the particular truth that there is no ground for fear.” If you have cause to fear, madam, that is your problem, not ours. This is the voice of progressivism.

Adrian Smith
Adrian Smith
4 months ago

The woke infection of our institutions in general and out education system in particular.

0 0
0 0
4 months ago

Been speaking out for 40 years (Iranian revolution and fatwa against Rushdie woke me up)
Been treated of: intolerant, racist, xenophobic, islamophobe, fascist, and so on. Lost many friends and lovers.
Retired in the countryside and living my cats and dogs.
Also, being French, Bruckner is good, but there are many others (Fienkelkraut, Bock-CĂŽtĂ©), all considered as belonging to the “fachosphere.
I tend to think it is hopeless, because the next generations have been brainwashed. I even can tell the difference between my younger and older children, these having retained some capacity for reason.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
4 months ago

It is difficult for a grandparent and parent to realise that the child comfortably brought up in a secure loving home can become so spiteful. It is the spite of the inadequate who is inadequate to task of the construction of the worthwhile and beautiful. Therefore they destroys that which shows them up to be inadequate, namely all the attributes which created Western Civilisation.
The middle class Left are largely devoid of people who could create civilisation from scratch; where are the craftsmen and engineers? The days when The Labour Party had leaders such as Keir Hardie who could hew coal from the ground and preach Christian charity, not class war, are long gone.

Mary Thomas
Mary Thomas
4 months ago

There is always a tipping point and the pendulum swings the other way. It’s always years after the average person on the street has already comprehended it and complained and brought it to the attention of the always sluggish and wary elites. Migrants are only now, 20 years after Blair decided we would not be England any more but would be a global destination for all and sundry, a case in point.

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
4 months ago

Right (nothing to do with right wing politics) thinking people have always called out racism and bigotry, and even marched against it. Working class women stand for other women far more that middle class women, not brcause it is easy, but because it is the right thing to do. I regularly neet with Muslim, Christian, Hindi and Jewish women as well as women with no faith, and guess what, we all break bread together and have lively, uplifting conversations with no hate anywhere. But why are women ignored as being ignorant in so many parts of the world. If politics was turned on its head, with more women than men taking the main jobs, the world would see a huge change towards the positive.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
4 months ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

“The Left has become a grotesque, scabrous, cretinous, and dangerous monstrosity.”
Eloquent as well as entirely accurate.

Cris Porper
Cris Porper
4 months ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

At bestghostwriters.net, you can expect competitive prices that are combined with high quality services. Students may have a limited budget, so the service tries to make the services affordable for everyone without compromising on quality. This way, you will always get a great result. Regardless of the complexity and topic, there is definitely a ghostwriter here who will cope with any difficulties and do it as best as possible.

Mrs R
Mrs R
4 months ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

‘The Left [to which I add the neo con right] has become a grotesque, scabrous, cretinous, and dangerous monstrosity. ‘
They’ve been all of that for some time now – people are just waking up to the consequences. Is it too late?

Benjamin Greco
Benjamin Greco
4 months ago
Reply to  Mrs R

Yes.

Benjamin Greco
Benjamin Greco
4 months ago
Reply to  Mrs R

Yes

Helen Hughes
Helen Hughes
4 months ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

What exactly is “the Left”? One thing “the Left” does is identity politics, right? It puts individuals together in groups according to their identities and sees them as members of these groups rather than as individuals. It then judges them all as being either good or bad. There was a time when the said “Left” saw workers as good and capitalists as bad. Now they see any and all victims as good and oppressors as bad, not according to their individual lives but according to their identity grouping. So when “the Right” talks about “the Left”, “it” is doing the same thing. Ewww – look at those nasty Lefties over there who are all the same because they think differently from me (and that “me” is always right/Right). And herein lies so much danger, and always has. We fail to see the human beings over there on the other side, because we’ve allowed ourselves to see them as beyond the pale and less-than-human. “They” are of course doing the same to “you”. Oh, there couldn’t be some forces out there that want this to happen, keeping us squabbling about how good we are and how bad the others are, so that they can get on with keeping control of everything, could there?
When will we ever learn?

Stephen Walsh
Stephen Walsh
4 months ago

For a woman’s life, and all her hopes and dreams, to end that way and in those circumstances. And for an organisation to control Gaza for nearly 20 years and, rather than try to build a state and an economy, to send its young men out to do that. A unilateral ceasefire now would be equivalent to a unilateral Allied ceasefire in Europe in 1944. Some regimes just have to be destroyed before there can be any hope for peace or rebirth.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
4 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Well said.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
4 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Just like with cancer in the body. It has to be removed completely.

Jonathon
Jonathon
4 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

You are completely correct.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

Gaza has been under Israeli military occupation for 56 years. Immediately after hamas was elected (with Netanyahu support, as he made it central to his policy to strengthen hamas in order to undermine the two state solution) – Israel imposed a complete blocade of Gaza, so hamas did not ‘control Gaza for 20 years’. His extremist right wing government has fanned the flames of settler militia violence in the West Bank, terrorising Palestinians, killing, torturing, forcing people to leave their land, with impunity. If Israel were to be forced to comply with international law, a peaceful solution could be found. Instead Israel uses is military mght to terrorise and oppress, escalate settlements on Palestinian and. You are suggesting that some regimes have to be destroyed before there is peace? In your logic this should apply to Israel. Is this what you are suggesting?
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-11-01/ty-article-opinion/.premium/amid-the-mourning-israels-settlement-enterprise-celebrates-a-great-victory/0000018b-85a6-dd28-a7df-95b7f9520000
https://commons.com.ua/en/ukrayinskij-list-solidarnosti/

R M
R M
4 months ago

I wrote in the aftermath of these attacks that whatever your politics, background or beliefs, if you watch footage of a naked, brutalised and (we now know) dead woman paraded as a trophy by men with guns and see anything other than unequivocal evil, then you are morally bankrupt.

Turns out “the right side of history” which the “progressive” left are so fond of invoking includes a lot of this sort of thing.

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
4 months ago
Reply to  R M

Yes, I’m starting to get the uncomfortable feeling that Hamas are doing what the identarian Left fantasize about doing to their ideological enemies.

Jonathon
Jonathon
4 months ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Sadly I think you might be right. Perhaps not quite as violently, but there are certainly enough instances of people being attacked or harassed by the “kind” left because they do not agree with them on issues of gender and such.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
4 months ago
Reply to  Jonathon

Dr Kathleen Stock could provide evidence to that effect.

Adrian Smith
Adrian Smith
4 months ago

This is not terrorism, it is premeditated barbarism.
No pause, no ceasefire until the monsters who made this happen are dead or behind bars and the capability to do it again has been dismantled.

Matt Sylvestre
Matt Sylvestre
4 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Smith

Dead – Not innocent Palestinians, but the actual barbarous monsters themselves, Dead, every damn last one of them.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
4 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

This is the problem. How many Hamas fighters have actually been killed in the Israeli air strikes compared to the number of civilians?

Andrew Roman
Andrew Roman
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

We will never know because the statistics are coming from Hamas. They report all deaths as civilians but some deaths must be of the Hamas fighters too. Probably many of them.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
4 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Roman

Seeing as a majority of those killed so far have been women or children, I think we can safely say Hamas fighters are a small minority of fatalities

Stephen Walsh
Stephen Walsh
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

The median age in Gaza is 18, so it is a mathematical certainty that the majority of civilian casualties will be women and children. The loss of thousands of lives is an appalling tragedy. But leaving Hamas for nearly 20 years to dig in as a militarised, theocratic, kleptocratic, police state hasn’t done the people of Gaza much good either.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
4 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

In fact the past 18 years have given HAMAS the chance to ‘grow’ an entirely new generation to be ‘harvested ’.
And so it has come to past. Brilliant!

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Walsh

If Israel were an honest broker in terms of honouring the Oslo accords that would have been a step in the direction of resolving the conflict. Instead the Israeli government under Netanyahu has done everything to undermine this, settlement expansion has continued, blocade of Gaza has continued, Gazans are 70% dependant on humanitarian aid and this is a result of the blocade and constant oppression.

Rafi Stern
Rafi Stern
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

The Hamas casualty figures of course claim that Israel is only killing women and children. However:
Since when has the information office of a barbaric Jihadist organization been a reliable source of information?
Even if they are right, Israel called repeatedly for civilians to leave the areas of bombing and fighting and Hamas prevented them from doing so. There are several testimonies I have had heard that Hamas fighters fired on people trying to move south, until Hamas lost control and then waves of thousands of people started moving.
And by the laws of war, any civilian site becomes a legitimate target if it is used for military purposes and a warning is given. Hiding weapons under children’s beds, in schools, and hospitals and digging military infrastructure under houses, does not grant Hamas impunity

Last edited 4 months ago by Rafi Stern
Billy Bob
Billy Bob
4 months ago
Reply to  Rafi Stern

If it was massively untrue Israel would release their own figures disputing them, as it’s not in their (or Americas) interest to have false and vastly inflated numbers of dead civilians being reported as fact. The fact this hasn’t happened implies to me that the figures are fairly close to the truth

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

I don’t believe that is true. The Israelis truth is simply not published in the main media. That doesn’t make it untrue. We have been seeing this for years. Never go to main media for the truth. One has to dig and discover the true sources of truth for themselves.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  Rafi Stern

It is people like the BBC and the Guardian etc. that believe the Hamas lies and publish it as true to the detriment of Israel.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Rafi Stern

Israel gives some hours of notice to 1.1 million inhabitants to flee, elderly, ill, pregnant, before bombing their homes, hospitals, schools – indeed very kind of Israel. Then bombed the so called safe evacuaton routes. Would you be happy for this to happen to your family?

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

If Hamas had built bomb shelters, moved civilian to areas of safety and not constructed military facilities near homes, hospitals and schools, there would be far less.
None of the above is technically difficult.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

‘None of the above is technically difficult.’ Oh, it’s all someone else’s fault and responsibility, is it? Well, they’re not exactly overloaded with cement, building materials and construction equipment in Gaza. Israel, the besieging power, rations Gzan imports very strictly.
Furthermore, Goebbels would have made much the same comment as yours in respect of civilian casualties in Warsaw, Amsterdam and Coventry. Back then, Britain (and the world at large) weren’t buying it.

Chris Hume
Chris Hume
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

If by “someone else” you mean Hamas who are the Gazan Authorities, then yes it is their fault and responsibility. They have sufficient building materials to build a military tunnel network. It is also the fault of Hamas that this horror is being visited on Gazans. They butchered thousands of Israelis, took hostages and then hid out behind their own civilians. They are responsible, yes.

carl taylor
carl taylor
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

This has to be the stupidest, most ignorant comment I have ever seen on Unherd pages. Congratulations.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  carl taylor

I agree. It beggars belief.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  carl taylor

Goebbels comment

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

Well said,

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

So a group lacking any air defences (or any defensive capabilities at all except small arms and urban warfare for that matter) is supposed to assemble and store what arms they have in wide open spaces to be easily picked off by the IDF? Not the best of military strategies that I’m afraid.
Hamas probably (incorrectly as it turned out) thought that Israel had more morals than a proscribed terrorist group and wouldn’t bomb large numbers of civilians in order to hit a few terrorists. Turns out they were wrong

Last edited 4 months ago by Billy Bob
carl taylor
carl taylor
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

So, you are praising Hamas’s ‘military strategy’ of placing rocket launchers next to children’s play areas and stockpiling weapons in hospitals, and then blaming Israel for even approaching those sites. I have no words.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

The hospitals etc. were built in the same complex as the military tunnels. They didn’t separate them as a matter of policy thus providing a shield from attack and to gain the sympathy of the world.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

If as Israel claims, hamas built command centres under hospitals, then they should allow independant verification of this, but Israel never allows this. Doctors, medical staff, UN, aid organisations say there are not command centres there. But Israel bombs anyhow, and then looks for other hospitals and civil infrastructure to bomb, to terrorise and punish all Gazans. In the meantime, they are not bothering to negotiate hostage release, and are putting the hostages in danger as nowhere is safe in Gaza.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

38 downvotes for a palpable fact.
UnHerd (sic) has become quite the screeching, one-sided echo-chamber: even worse, on this issue, than the Daily Mailograph or Spectator.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

War is Hell.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
4 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

“The first casualty of war is truth “.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago

That is quite legitimate in war. Not using deception in war would leave you vulnerable. Those who seek to kill you are not worthy of the truth.

Last edited 4 months ago by Tony Conrad
Josie Bowen
Josie Bowen
4 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Yes, and Hamas is demonic, straight from home.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Perhaps they (Hamas) should have thought about that BEFORE they launched their obscene attack?
Or where they hoping for this year’s Darwin Prize for stupidity?

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
4 months ago

As I’ve said previously, if the 11k dead Palestinians were all Hamas fighters nobody would have batted an eyelid, I myself would cheer the IDF on. However it’s clearly not the case. My sympathy for the original attack by Hamas has unfortunately been replaced by utter revulsion at the Israeli response.
Even the animals of Hamas only killed 30 children, and a third of their victims were soldiers and security forces. Over a third of those killed by Israel have been children, and I’d wager more than two thirds are civilians so in my eyes there’s little difference between them and the terrorists

Last edited 4 months ago by Billy Bob
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Provide a plan where Israel can defeat Hamas without hurting non- combatants.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Their human shields has always been at the front of their reasoning.

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

By using their civilisns as human shields, Hamas has killed far more than that. Maybe not with rockets and bullets, but by not letting them leave, they may as well have shot them all. It is cowards who use civilians to shield themselved. It is bullies who use women and children to hide behind. Hamas leaders are not even in Gaza, but laughing at the rest of the world from Qatar. A legitimate army, I think not.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago

Or prize for evil.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Roman

Israel also claims that most of the victims of 7 October were civilians but a large number were military and security personnel.

Adrian Smith
Adrian Smith
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

It is not about numbers dead. It is about the inhumane savagery which HAMAS premeditatedly committed on 7 Oct and would happily repeat every day of the year until Palestine was free of jews from the river to the sea if they could. If nothing is done to remove them and their capability they will do it again because they have made very clear that they would..
Israel must conduct its operations in a manner that minimises civilian casualties and it does, but they are inevitable when they are being used a a human shield by monsters.
As for Hamas fighters they really do deserve all they get and cannot be equated to innocent women and children.

Last edited 4 months ago by Adrian Smith
Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

While deaths are lamentable regardless of who dies there is a distinct difference between being collateral damage in a war campaign and the heinous atrocities committed by Hamas toward whom you would do better to direct your ire. The fact that Palestinian protestors living in the West never protest against Hamas speaks volumes.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

They darent is most closer to the truth but one cannot be blind to the dancing in the streets at 9/11 and the recent horrors where they cut up together a naked Israeli woman who had already been raped by them. Such rejoicing is unimaginarble in a civilised society. I don’t think it is a clear line between Hamas and most of the Palestinians although I am sure that there are some who don’t go along with this glee over the rape and killing of civilians.

Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
4 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

The deaths of Palestinian civilians was the key mission – of the Hamas terrorists. They have planned for it. They delight in it, feeding hysterical (unvalidated) death figures to the credulous media. It is THE Plan. Their sado barbaric massacre was intended to dent the reputation of the IDF; to shatter the Saudi peace initiative on behalf of the Shia thugs in Tehran; but mostly Hamas intended to trigger an inevitable warranted violent retaliation from Israel, knowing the disgraceful appeaser media & their admin pals the UN were all prepared and willing to rehash the age old Palestinian Victim Narrative. They built no shelters for the Gazans; they made zero preparation for them (water? Food?). The suffering of Gazans is the outcome they need and sought.

Linda M Brown
Linda M Brown
4 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

Are their innocent Palestinians? They released videos of Palestinians celebrating the massacre of civilians. They release videos of mothers saying how happy they are their sons are terrorist and will sacrifice all their sons to murder Jews.
How can you get passed that mindset when a mother hates Jews more than she loves her son?

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
4 months ago
Reply to  Linda M Brown

Precisely. Just like EVERY cancer cell must be removed, otherwise it returns.

Alex Colchester
Alex Colchester
4 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Exactly right- the only way to completely ensure no cancer returns: kill the host. Can’t let healthy cells get in the way of eradicating that cancer. Anyway, those healthy cells would inevitably become cancerous given time.

Last edited 4 months ago by Alex Colchester
Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  Linda M Brown

If you’d had the misfortune to be born in Gaza, I expect you’d have been celebrating too. In point of fact, the Israeli casualties weren’t only civilians. Hamas is reported as having killed 363 Israeli troops and police; probably a higher ratio of fighters to civilian casualties than the IDF in Gaza has been inflicting these past five weeks.
In native English, btw, the words you want there are ‘there’ and ‘past’.

Shrunken Genepool
Shrunken Genepool
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

That’s a particularly moronic comment. Babies in ovens, foetuses ripped out, rapes to death, beheadings, babies killed in front of mothers (before raping them to death), grotesque prolonged physical torture………What’s you point Peter? The ‘misfortune’ could have been enormous fortune if Hamas had spent the billions of dollars of aid on turning Gaza into a Mediterranean Singapore ….or Dubai. If they were celebrating, then they deserve everything that follows. Stupidity has consequences also. However many were not….Many will secretly be glad to see the back of Hamas. And from them might now arise a genuine future

Mickey John
Mickey John
4 months ago

You really want to be careful , pal. Keep calm and remember that lots of people on both sides are messing with the truth.
From the Jerusalem Post-

“In a separate post the same day, FakeReporter noted: “The story about the Israeli baby whose body was found in the oven has been circulating for 24 hours and has serious consequences. The story was first circulated by pro-Israeli accounts to describe the dimensions of the massacre carried out on 7/10, but very quickly the trend reversed and the story was used to promote Hamas propaganda and claim that Israel is fabricating evidence and inflating the numbers of the murdered.”

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago

There is no evidence that this occurred – its very easy to parrot off this kind of claim which would never hold up in any imvestigation.
a genuine future might come if Israel became an honest broker for peace, instead of doing everything to oppress Palestinians, escalate militant settler violence, and steal Palestinian land. Forced displacement, starvation, indiscriminate bombing of civilians are war crimes.

Tony Plaskow
Tony Plaskow
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

They celebrate, not because of the geography of where they are born, but because their entire system, from pre-prep school to adulthood, is inculcated and entirely consumed with antisemitic / anti-Israel lies.
Amidst your biased mania, the data relating to military/civilian deaths reinforces the exact thing I think you are trying to rebuke. The FACT (you don’t want to hear/acknowledge, I understand) that Hamas uses their civilians as ‘human shields’ and actively wants more ‘martyrs’.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Tony Plaskow

you can say the same of Israelis, who cheer and celebrate as bombs rain down on Gaza :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

Are you an armchair captain? Got your wee plastic soldiers all over the dining table? Wanted to join up but not fit enough? Reason I am asking is you sound like the men who were all over the TV when the UK and USA went into Iraq to take out the Weapons of Mass Destruction that werent there and who met in the pub to plan their toy soldiers’ movements!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
4 months ago
Reply to  Linda M Brown

Quite so but there must be some innocent Palestinians.

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Linda M Brown

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing

israels drinking and cheering as bombs drop on Gaza

collective punishment as you seem to be advocating is a war crime

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
4 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

But the “monsters” are using their own people as human shields. They won’t let ordinary Gazans leave to go to safety because they need the world’s sympathy. Why do so many influential people, inc BBC reporters, believe the propaganda when Hamas released videos of the atrocities they committed? Israel might have a right wing leader/goverment but it doesnt mean that Jews should be seen as fair game. Remember, it could be you tomorrow.

Point of Information
Point of Information
2 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

Since Hamas are, by various reports, literally underground, and civilians are on the surface, the odds are not in favour of wiping out Hamas by a “no ceasefire” strategy.

The war may seem like the only choice for Israel’s current government – although previous generations made more creative and intelligent use of Mossad – but the rest of the world’s governments have many choices beyond simply “war by Israel on her own” or “ceasefire with no further effort to deal with Hamas”.

A non-exhaustive list includes:
– a UN peacekeeping force in Gaza,
– a multi-Arab-state placeholder government in Gaza,
– targeted missions to identify and apprehend all Hamas operatives involved the October 7th atrocity (it might take years but so did tracking down Nazis), by Arab, intercontinental and Israeli agencies working together,
– temporary (genuinely temporary) relocation of Palestinian civilians to Egypt while the tunnels are cleared and filled with concrete and Gaza is rebuilt,
– the many other options that cleverer people than I can think of.

When eco-protesters threw soup at works of art recently, a friend observed that it was an irrelevant protest: “I may as well walk down the street slapping every other child because I’m angry with the Tories”.

Likewise in Gaza, waging war that overwhelmingly hits civilians (even if you try to avoid targeting them directly) punishes entirely the wrong people. Further, revenge by warfare prevents the perpetrators of atrocities from being arrested, charged, held to account and individually punished for their crimes.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Smith

‘…the monsters who made this happen.’
Are you including Bibi in that? According to both Ha’aretz and the Times of Israel, he intervened last year to dissuade Qatar from withholding its $300m in funding for Hamas, which he has nurtured for years as a counterweight to Fatah in an effort to keep the Palestinians divided. What death – or jail sentence – have you in mind for him? There are certainly a couple of million Israelis who want to see him jailed.

Adrian Smith
Adrian Smith
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

A wider investigation into the various failures that failed to stop / may have enabled and encouraged this should indeed be conducted alongside the military action which must remain focused and targeted at the monsters at the head of Hamas.

geoffrey cox
geoffrey cox
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

This is rather like asking indignantly when Hitler is going to be prosecuted for putting his rubbish in the wrong bin.

David McKee
David McKee
4 months ago

The term to describe the people in these women’s groups is “moral imbeciles”.
Their names should be noted, and they should be reminded of their sins every time they open their big mouths.

Derek Smith
Derek Smith
4 months ago

All of this was totally predictable given the cultural preeminence of the ‘decolonisation’ and ‘oppressor-oppressed’ narratives amongst the progressive activist class.

‘Some Lives Don’t Matter’

Last edited 4 months ago by Derek Smith
Adrian Smith
Adrian Smith
4 months ago
Reply to  Derek Smith

What is worse is that by their silence and denials they are enabling Hamas to do it all again some day, which is why Israel must simply ignore the seemingly well meaning objections to it defending itself and get on and do the job.

Bronwen Saunders
Bronwen Saunders
4 months ago

I’ve noted in previous posts that those whose sole mission in life is to champion the downtrodden will sooner or later exhibit the most egregious callousness towards others. (The evidence of this is overwhelming: just witness the indifference to white working-class boys and girls, to women who object to having to undress in front of (mentally troubled) men, to white victims of police brutality (how many went out on the streets to protest the murder of Justine Damond?) and to Asian high achievers who are having to forego opportunities solely on grounds of race?)
I also predicted that people with this mindset, forced by their ideology to defend more and more outrageous actions – the widespread looting following the death of a black felon in 2020, the utterly pointless vandalism of climate extremists like Just Stop Oil, the spoliation of the countryside by wind farms and solar arrays etc. – would eventually find themselves having to defend the indefensible.
But I comforted myself with the belief that once that happened, once they found themselves having to excuse the mass rape, torture, murder, desecration of the dead and abduction of human beings of all ages and nationalities, they would at last wake up and repudiate the insane ideology that had put them in such a morally reprehensible position.
Now I know I was wrong. The indoctrination has worked and we are now living among people who will condone the most appalling violence as long as it happens to those they consider undeserving.
This is terrifying.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
4 months ago

Well said, thank you!!!
The world needs to wake the **** up!!!

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
4 months ago

One of the best posts in a while.

David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago

But I comforted myself with the belief that once that happened, once they found themselves having to excuse the mass rape, torture, murder, desecration of the dead and abduction of human beings of all ages and nationalities, they would at last wake up and repudiate the insane ideology that had put them in such a morally reprehensible position.

But perhaps you’re wrong. Perhaps haters are drawn to hateful ideologies. Perhaps the ideology only provides for them the rationalisation for the bitterness and hatred they feel inside. Perhaps it’s a preferred alternative to looking into the nasty little mess that is their soul. And if you believe you are on the side of the angels, or the eternal victims, then anything is permitted. Any dreadfulness is “glorious”.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  David Morley

Your comments on this essay are excellent, David, all of them. In this case, the mechanism is a defining feature of all ideologies on both the Left and the Right. If the end can justify the means, after all, then anything goes.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
4 months ago

Brilliant post. I think they are largely middle class wastrels who are full of self loathing, hatred and contempt because they lack the mental and physical qualities needed to create and maintain civilisation. No tough craftsmen and engineers who undertake construction and maintenance in remote, arduous, dirty, dangerous conditions needed for civilisation to exist.They need a cause to justify their existance.
The dam collapse in Libya where up to 20,000 were kiled demonstrates what happens when humans ignore the forces of the universe.

Stuart Bennett
Stuart Bennett
4 months ago

If any of these so called feminist groups are receiving public funding it’s time it was withdrawn. Along with any organisations promoting Queer theory, CRT or any other sympathising with Jihadism. This is the first step and it’s long overdue. If you want to promote this delusional crap with a view to destroying society you fund it yourself. This is the Left, this is who’s pitched to be the next government of our country, the public opposition has got to be vocalised by more than just that rag tag buch of coke heads who turned out on Rememberance Day. Very sadly, the UnHerd message board and any other online space won’t make any difference either. Time to organise and be quick about it.

Jonathon
Jonathon
4 months ago
Reply to  Stuart Bennett

That requires a government and public bodies that are willing to stand up to this change in culture, and for many MP’s, their voter base has changed as such that it would be electoral suicide for them (see Jess Philips in Birmingham). Nothing will change because it has gone too far, we are past the point of return.
(I will absolutely happily be wrong about this though, maybe I’m just too pessimistic now)

Mint Julip
Mint Julip
4 months ago
Reply to  Stuart Bennett

Just a quick note, Sisters Uncut is a “feminist” organization quite relaxed about oppressing women. Especially gender critical women. It’s heavily into the TQ part of the alphabet soup, it’s founder is a trans identified male. Not surprised about their stance on this appalling event.

Matt Sylvestre
Matt Sylvestre
4 months ago

These organizations have proven themselves to be the worst form of hypocrites…
Hell, that is too high-brow: These organizations are simply a stinking bunch of worthless losers for turning their back on women simply because of their ethnicity (their being Jewish/Israeli)… Pathetic…

Last edited 4 months ago by Matt Sylvestre
Bernard Brothman
Bernard Brothman
4 months ago

Now you see the hierarchy of victimhood. Hamas can do whatever it likes no matter how barbaric, and women’s groups bow to it and even justify it.

Adrian Smith
Adrian Smith
4 months ago

It is interesting how a group that various monsters have tried to eradicate like vermin over the millennia has managed to slip to the bottom of today’s hierarchy.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Smith

Well, I guess it’s hard for any State or people to portray themselves as ‘victims’ when the world’s most powerful State and military power ‘has their back’, unconditionally and without reservation; and when you have the power to drop 25,000 tonnes of US-supplied bombs on a built-up area containing 2.3 million people wholly defenceless against aerial attack. Those aged under 60 or so will tend to look at the events of the past month, year or decade or generation – not those of a previous century.

Tony Plaskow
Tony Plaskow
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

That also doesn’t make any sense whatsoever in your attempts to defend barbarism. The main lie being parroted for Hamas’ actions is that Israel ‘stole Palestinians’ land’ 75 years ago so is the justification the very-recent events or the one almost a century ago? Appreciate you want it to be both.
You will note that Israel does not launch those weapons onto anyone in Gaza until Hamas’ constant, almost-daily, rocket fire or attacks get some ‘success’.
In the same way Israel is an apartheid State apparently despite millions of data to the contrary, like the 2m+ Arab-Israelis living there fruitfully.
Or the genocide which has seen Gaza’s population grow faster than almost anywhere else in the world.
Which lies do you want to use? You can’t use them all concurrently, surely?

Dorrido Dorrido
Dorrido Dorrido
4 months ago
Reply to  Tony Plaskow

Israel continues to steal Palestinian land
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-11-01/ty-article-opinion/.premium/amid-the-mourning-israels-settlement-enterprise-celebrates-a-great-victory/0000018b-85a6-dd28-a7df-95b7f9520000

you seem ignorant of the fact that Gaza has been under Israeli military occupation for 56 years, and under blocade for 16 years. Israel, one of the most powerful militaries in the world, ises that military might to oppress and subdue the Palestinians.

Jonathon
Jonathon
4 months ago

Not just women’s groups unfortunately. Too many “Queers for Palestine” and “Trans Supports Palestinians” banners at these marches, either blindly unaware or stupidly ignorant to the fact that Hamas wouldn’t even blink before killing each and every one of them for their sexuality and/or gender identity.
I do not see myself as “queer” but as just a regular, unassuming gay man I am in no doubt that I am as lucky as any gay man in history to be born and alive in the UK at this time.
But Hamas could throw 100 gay men off the roof in Gaza and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference for many LGBT groups because in the victim Olympics there is a hierarchy – even to the detriment of their own cause.

Richard 0
Richard 0
4 months ago

Thank you for publishing this piece. Every news report I listen to has no mention of the atrocity that started it. The context is purely one-sided: Israeli aggression. For Hamas, read ISIS – a death cult dedicated to the elimination of Jews. And the Israeli Arab population (20%) would be dealt with ruthlessly if Hamas were to succeed – they will be cast as collaborators. Israel can’t wipe them out entirely but let’s hope they go as far as they can.

Mrs R
Mrs R
4 months ago

The corrosive, blinkered dogma of racism and colonialism in which only white people are held accountable and guilty by dint of their skin colour is perhaps the most corrosive and evil of intellectual poisons ever dreamed up. How to destroy a society in two generations. Who would have thought it could be so easy.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
4 months ago
Reply to  Mrs R

Yes, and isn’t it stange that these protesters who ‘claim to have a conscience’ have FORGOTTEN about the Wheegers( spelling ) in China???
Hypocrites!!!
Of course, it is always easier to talk about things like communism and oppression in a FREE country, isn’t it?
NO CEASEFIRE, ERADICATE HAMAS!!!

Last edited 4 months ago by UnHerd Reader
Ticiba Upe
Ticiba Upe
4 months ago
Reply to  Mrs R

That’s what happens when the pendulum gets stuck. It’s supposed to swing every other generation. We are now up to 2.5 generations without the swing. The law of physics will take place. If it doesn’t move now, it will take another 60 years. What needs to happen is for my politically naive generation to die off.

David Giles
David Giles
4 months ago

A ceasefire now would be the equivalent of a ceasefire in 1944; must not happen!

Rafi Stern
Rafi Stern
4 months ago

The silence of women’s organizations and the their condemnations together with UN agencies of Israel’s defensive actions are deeply shameful. And one might ask where were the WHO and UNWRA and all the other international agencies in Gaza when all the military infrastructure was built there. I would say that we feel betrayed, but unfortunately our expectations have always been low.

Samantha Stevens
Samantha Stevens
4 months ago

As a woman who considers herself a feminist, second wave came of age in the 70’s and 80’s, I find the young feminists deplorable in every way. From choosing the rights of men in dresses over women in single sex spaces and sports to this horror, I am disgusted.
As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and rape as an adult, when I saw the images of the girls and their bloodied pants, I shook. To think what these women suffered is beyond horrific. To think how quickly their pain was dismissed by the politically correct crowd infuriated me.
What the progressives are more than anything else is insensitive and ignorant. They don’t listen, they don’t read, they don’t want to learn. They watch a TikTok video designed to enrage them, anoint themselves informed, and then go out and terrorize the world. Spoiled brats.

David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago

From choosing the rights of men in dresses over women in single sex spaces and sports to this horror, I am disgusted.

I’m sorry, but I think it is shocking you would put these things together in one sentence. Men in frocks is one thing. Massacre is another. It’s precisely this black and white thinking which is the problem.

Last edited 4 months ago by David Morley
Samantha Stevens
Samantha Stevens
4 months ago
Reply to  David Morley

No, it’s not. It’s all part of the same women-hating misogyny. The Trans-movement is just a men’s rights movement where men’s needs – autogynephile’s needs – to see themselves as women and be affirmed as women matter more than women’s rights to privacy, dignity, and safety.

Last edited 4 months ago by Samantha Stevens
Francisco Javier Bernal
Francisco Javier Bernal
4 months ago

Jewish people:
I want you to remember something. All those times that we were in the minority, while civilisations much larger and louder than us tried to exterminate us: We did not just survive.
We actually, sometimes much later down the line, came to be understood as the victims of hatred.
All those loud majorities, who each in their own time had waves of support, went down in history as the real oppressors.
Every single one. hold on to this. Goodness is undeniable, no matter the brush they paint us with. the truth will prevail, in time.
One day in the not too distant future, when hindsight is stronger than hatred, 7th October will be remembered as the worst pogrom against the Jewish people since the Holocaust. The weeks and months that followed will be remembered as a dark time in history, when Jewish people were attacked, threatened, blamed, intimidated, silenced, and ignored.
And when people ask: Did you speak out against it, or were you one of the people who stoked the antisemitic fire?
You will have to be accountable for how you responded.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago

That’s a wise and eloquent statement, Francisco. I thank you for it–and not only because I happen to be a Jew. Everyone should thank you.
Jews are a very visible target for the haters, but there’s much more to this sudden re-emergence of open hatred than either religious anti-Judaism or racial anti-Semitism. Western civilization is the ultimate target. This is true for Hamas but also for its anti-Western allies in other parts of the world. These ideologies have many things in common, not by accident, especially their relentless and implacable hatred toward Western civilization.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
4 months ago

You’re right. Well said and thank you.

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
4 months ago

“If you are working for one of these charities, you are used to a victim/perpetrator narrative which is normally true in the domestic violence context, but not when it comes to geopolitics.”
This is an eye-opening essay. But I wish the author had delved more deeply into *why* these feminist organizations would so quickly and blindly turn against the female victims of Hamas. What is really going on in this “victim/perpetrator” narrative that is alluded to here as an explanation?
Underpinning it is identity politics, which is really a fight against the received truths of the Western tradition. In particular, feminism was founded on the idea that historically pervasive social and legal distinctions between men and women were not a collaborative effort to shape society to allow both sexes to thrive in mutual interdependence, but a long history of subjugation by one sex over the other – i.e., the “patriarchy.”
This is a false narrative, but it underpins modern feminism – and something parallel to it underpins the woke/identity politics worldview that thinks all colonialism was an intentional evil, all Jewish settlers are criminal invaders, all brown people are more virtuous than all white people, etc.
The feminists who are rightly aghast at the way their sisters have reacted to these atrocities against women, must turn their gimlet eye to their own ideological maxims, and they will see that their own misconceived assumptions have played an important part in getting us to this point.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

Thank you for pointing out that ideological forms of feminism have indeed been indulging in identity politics for half a century. This does not mean that feminists, let alone women per se, are to blame for what that happened to Israeli women–and men, by the way. It means only that this massacre should be a wake-up call about any polarizing movement that fragments all humans into innate oppressors and innate victims–that is, a titanic war of “them” against “us.” This dualistic tendency is not new and by no means confined to modern feminists; it goes back to the Manichaeans and even earlier. What’s new is its propagation by a wide range of powerful ideological allies, which differ primarily in the choice of target populations, not in their underlying thought patterns.

Last edited 4 months ago by Paul Nathanson
Waffles
Waffles
4 months ago

Wokes are anti-white racists with no morals. They have taken over schools, universities, the police, military, civil service, NHS, Hollywood, charities and NGOs, plus the SNP, LibDems, and are currently taking over the Tories.

The centre has not held. We lost it without even realising. Wokes wormed themselves into key positions like HR departments under the guise of caring and justice. But they don’t want equal rights, they want superior rights for their in-groups.

The West is done for. If you are a white man or a Jew especially, I would leave and find somewhere better where you won’t be discriminated against.
https://open.substack.com/pub/robertstark/p/corporate-americas-economic-war-on?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=ysp20

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
4 months ago
Reply to  Waffles

And WHERE will that be, if this is allowed to continue???

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
4 months ago
Reply to  Waffles

Leave? What are you talking about? To go where?
Don’t be a coward, stay a fight your case.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
4 months ago

Turkeys supporting Christmas.

Last edited 4 months ago by Katharine Eyre
Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
4 months ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

I think Turkey’s supporting Hamas!

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  Guy Pigache

Why not? Bibi and his Cabinet did, right up until about five weeks ago.

Eleanor Barlow
Eleanor Barlow
4 months ago

Hamas has pulled off a propaganda coup that could not have been bettered by Goebbels – and western feminists, left wingers and fellow travellers have fallen for it hook line ad sinker.
First, they invaded Israel and committed atrocities that rank alongside the worst of Nazi excesses during WW2. They deliberately did this in order to provoke war with Israel, then deliberately planted their arms and fighters in buildings full of civilians – and complained to the rest of the world that ‘genocide’ was being committed against Palestinians – a ‘genocide’ which Hamas has facilitated because it doesn’t care that civilians are being killed in large numbers. Civilians to them are just collateral damage.
Pro Palestine feminists need to be remined that Hamas takes its orders from Iran – a regime that tortures and murders young girls who refuse to wear the hijab.
Unfortunately it’s impossible to have an honest debate with these deluded Pro Palestinians, because the Guardian immediately deletes comments from readers that point out these inconvenient facts. I assume the rest of the so-called progressive media outlets are doing the same.

John Walsh
John Walsh
4 months ago

There is nothing new in this.White feminists are very brave in taking on the white,so-called patriarchy,bleating on about “glass ceilings” in the boardroom.When there are real monsters doing terrible things to women in what used to be called the “third world”,their silence is deafening.I think they should follow the example of Emily Pankhurst and do away with themselves as a protest, at least that would help the carbon imprinting the world which they are also much energised about.

Ticiba Upe
Ticiba Upe
4 months ago
Reply to  John Walsh

The glass ceiling was broken decades ago…considering the crazy women in charge in our government, it was a mistake.

David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago
Reply to  John Walsh

You may mean Emily Davison.

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
4 months ago

Horrific. But I don’t know how anyone who has watched the progressive Left shape-shift itself through the decades can be at all surprised. These people are nothing but vessels of hate directed at the culture that supports and sustains them and makes their ranting possible. They would be immediately killed in every barbaric culture they choose to cheer for from the safety of the civilized West.

Aphrodite Rises
Aphrodite Rises
4 months ago

There is a wilful blindness on the part of those who like to believe they are on the right side of history. I asked a Church of England vicar/ priest after the service why he had asked for prayers for Gaza but not for the Israelis or at least the Israeli hostages. His response was that the Israelis were covered by general prayers and that at other times he had prayed for the Ukrainians and not the Russians (which implies he views the Israelis as the enemy). I asked him if he was aware that antisemitism is on the rise and he replied that the Jews and the Israelis are not the same thing and was I aware that Israel is a nation state: implying that was a justification for the horrific crimes committed against the Israelis. He was relatively young, early 30s maybe, with longish hair and obviously superficially very much love and peace. He genuinely couldn’t understand my point of view though he did say he would think about prayers for the Israelis. I suspect, some of the most dangerous people are those who are convinced they are on the right side of history and their followers.
I also object very strongly to the authors claim
‘If you are working for one of these charities, you are used to a victim/perpetrator narrative which is normally true in the domestic violence context, but not when it comes to geopolitics.”’ I think relationships are incredibly complex and I have seen women goad men until they can’t take it any longer and lash out. To blame one side in a dispute is unlikely to solve any problems. In the past a ducking stool was used to punish nags. Feminists are inclined to view this as sexism. I view it as a sign of the power of some women to cause great harm with words alone. Traditionally, males have attacked and defended physically whereas women use words. Words don’t leave physical traces but emotionally and psychologically they can be extremely damaging. Words can build a person up and words can knock them down, there has been research which shows emotional pain hurts in the same way as physical pain, same part of the brain is involved, I think.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
4 months ago

Well said. Obviously, sadly, some religious representatives are afraid to stand up and speak out The Truth. I guess they figure that if the Bible has it in there, just read for yourself?
An atrocity, an offense, and violence and hatred, are all the same, no matter what race or ethnicity they are directed at.
But The Blindness continues, the joke woke are more interested in tossing spagetti sauce on treasured art in public places or gluing themselves together in the street ‘ to send a message’– maybe hamas is listening, I am NOT!

Ticiba Upe
Ticiba Upe
4 months ago

Oh yes….women with their tongues. You are spot on about that. As a woman, I am an odd advocate for men. I maintain that, behind every abusive male is a female instigator…you might have to walk the cat back several generations until you find the son who watched his mother verbally abuse his father and make the decision that he would never allow that to happen to him. How daughters grow up and how sons grow up go back to the mother.

Septima Williams
Septima Williams
4 months ago
Reply to  Ticiba Upe

Too neat I’m afraid. Life is far more complicated than that. You could say the same for the boy’s mother who verbally abused her husband. You are also implying that a father has negligible influence on his children! Whatever experiences have played into an abusers behaviour they still know the difference between right and wrong and are responsible for their own actions.

David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago
Reply to  Ticiba Upe

behind every abusive male is a female instigator

Not every, but some. And that is often forgotten. It’s not black and white. I’ve often wondered how many of the perpetrators and victims are actually suffering from personality disorders.

Jennifer Lawrence
Jennifer Lawrence
4 months ago

Women are certainly accountable for the ways in which their words can cause damage and destruction, and I think that you’re correct in that who we may tend to consider a victim may also be a perpetrator of violence.
But while the latter may be the case, and anger thus justified, there is a point at which anger becomes violence, and it is the former that goes beyond the pale of the good. The distinction between anger and violence is very unclear in our society because the good has been relativised into nothingness, but I would say that for a man to strike or kill his wife because she is a nag is an unacceptable defense. St Paul said that a husband must learn to bear his cross, as must his wife in marriage — the people we surround ourselves with to be in relationships with (in democratic societies) is then very much our choice, and if the damage and anger is so great between two people, then it is better to separate. To stay in such a relationship after it is failing is therefore the man’s choice, and I have to say I cannot see how his wife’s failures as a person can justify a violent response in any way.

Aphrodite Rises
Aphrodite Rises
4 months ago

I never suggested nagging was a defence against violence or murder. I did suggest that words do have the power to both inflict great pain and elicit violent responses. Nowadays there is a greater understanding and recognition of the impact of emotional and psychological abuse. Why do you claim it is the man’s fault if he stays in a failing relationship, why not the woman’s too?

Last edited 4 months ago by Aphrodite Rises
Paul T
Paul T
4 months ago

What is happening gives society a very good chance to know exactly who is supporting Hamas terrorists and is actively against this country and its values. They are largely the pro-Palestinians we see marching each week and the just-a-bit-further-than-centre left that have been indoctrinated by extremist union leaders, the DEI industry, doctors, teachers and the public sector. They are not a majority and their numbers will quickly dwindle once the consequences are made clear; complete ostracism from society (banking, social safety-net, public services) unless they undertake intensive de-radicalisation. They should never be given positions of responsibility again; they are a treasonous 5th column.

Yes that all sounds a bit extreme. But it seems to me that all the “Human Rights”, “progressivism”, “activism” are industries which exist solely to protect the interests of criminals and those that hate this country and the west. Too often the power of the state is used to coerce the law-abiding majority on behalf of these bad actors; “if we don’t police ourselves fully as they demand then we will have let them down”. Why do we allow human rights to ONLY be used against us? Why is limiting human rights for those that would strip it away from us in a heartbeat unacceptable? Why have we allowed, demanded that, our rights and freedoms must go unprotected? Why is protecting Human Rights described as destroying them? China and Russia are either laughing at us or shaking their heads; “look at your precious Human Rights; you cant even defend them whilst your enemies use them to undermine you and destroy your societies. And you want us to sign up to them too?”

Last edited 4 months ago by Paul T
Ticiba Upe
Ticiba Upe
4 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Follow the money….it will lead to cui bono…

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
4 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

You’re absolutely right in that all those with the views being debated here are now out in the open. It’s a necessary first step, and whilst it’s been discussed in intellectual terms before, the attack by Hamas and their treatment of women and children (in particular) has made it a far more visceral matter.
Bloodshed should lead to a watershed – the question is: will it, and how? I very much doubt those under scrutiny will be debanked or even ostracised in any meaningful way (except in the future, as with witch-burners, etc.)
Our institutions have to be reclaimed, and that will take time, energy and courage. There are really good examples to follow, such as Kathleen Stock and JK Rowling. Where are the male leaders? It’s still my opinion that the majority in the UK are horrified by what’s happening on our streets with the demonstrations (despite polls with poor methodology suggesting otherwise) so there’d be no question of lack of support.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Although Lampert makes a very useful point in her essay about political double standards, she ignores or hides another one. And I’d say the same about your comment.
I haven’t (yet) seen the Hamas videos, but I do know that the terrorists had no pity whatsoever for their many male victims. I don’t know that these terrorists raped any male victims, moreover, but I do know that doing precisely that was a standard practice during ancient Near Eastern wars and also in other times and places. Women were raped and sold into slavery, men raped and killed.
So I don’t see why you felt the urge to mention explicitly “women and children (in particular),” as if other victims were of no consequence. Please, let’s not resort to competitive suffering. That perpetuates the whole mentality of wokism or intersectionalism.

Last edited 4 months ago by Paul Nathanson
Avro Lanc
Avro Lanc
4 months ago

We are marching at speed into an incredibly dark future indeed. I’ll be okay I suspect. I suffer from toxic masculinity, I am military trained and I am armed.
The Lefty blue hair queer Tik Toker pound shop communist antisemites however? I think they may regret getting what they wished for* Tin hats and bayonets are the the future it would seem.

*They wont of course, becuase dead people have no regrets.

Alan Hawkes
Alan Hawkes
4 months ago

The lack of response from those groups is just what you should expect from professional virtue-signallers when they are asked to stand up and be counted. If any taxpayers’ money goes to them it should be stopped.

Daniel P
Daniel P
4 months ago

I’ve noticed something about most feminist groups. It seems to me that they are always finding reasons not to support some particular women or groups of women when there is some other political cause or need of the moment.

I think back the Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski. ANY other average man would have been savaged by them. Never mind his hanging with Epstein. BUT, he was a democrat president with the ability to appoint pro Roe justices so they let it go.

Tom Shaw
Tom Shaw
4 months ago

We have a problem with evidence so horrific it cannot be properly shared. One might read a few stories of October 7, but are you among the small number of journalists (like some at UnHerd) and others who have actually reviewed the video material? Some of those professionals broke down during the viewings, but, like Dimbleby in 1945, they cannot get the full message out. Then they wonder why the world doesn’t share their outrage. Well, the world doesn’t always believe journalists.
It was the same with the Parliamentary briefings on child pornography: MPs and Lords were utterly unable to express the horror of what they were shown.
Showing the truth risks calling down disgust on oneself for being so indecent as to discuss such things. But it’s no good being squeamish. The truth must get out.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
4 months ago
Reply to  Tom Shaw

That needs to be repeated, and the sensibilities of the public be damned.

In the end, the Holocaust was broadcast. Words weren’t needed. I could be wrong, but i think the full traumatic evidence was shown in cinemas, in the “short” that used to accompany the main film back in the day; seen by millions. Has human nature changed since then, either in terms of carrying out evil acts or our ability to absorb them? I really don’t think so.

Ken Bowman
Ken Bowman
4 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

I was ten when Belsen was relieved and saw the explicit details then at the cinema. I was not mentally disturbed. Hiding the truth has no merit it merely prevents valid judgements from being made.

Shrunken Genepool
Shrunken Genepool
4 months ago

We should defund the UN and the WEF, leave the European Court……They are all captured by global liberals and /or far-left Islamicist

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago

While I agree with you on the European Court, I’m not aware that any nation States are members of the WEF. That’s a private, corporate organisation. Do correct me if I’m wrong.
As for the UN: so that’s goodbye to the US, French and UK vetoes as Permanent Members of the UN Security Council, then? For all the kvetching, I doubt your suggestion would find much favour with the Israel Government. If you mean to keep the voting power while refusing to pay subs, China will simply step in and make up the balance, gaining further international influence and kudos in the process (and making your scheme something of a self-fulfilling prophecy).

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
4 months ago

“The events of October 7 do not compare to the Holocaust”
Yes they do.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Well, what does that make the killing of c. 15,000 civilians by unopposed aerial bombing, then?

Jennifer Lawrence
Jennifer Lawrence
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

I think it is more precise to say that it is a holocaust for Jewish women.

David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago

Were no men brutally killed?

Last edited 4 months ago by David Morley
Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  David Morley

Again, David, thank you for saying what should be (but clearly isn’t) self-evident.

Bronwen Saunders
Bronwen Saunders
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

Perhaps like the bombing of Cologne, Hamburg, Berlin and countless other German cities? The civilian death toll was huge. But the monstrous, genocidal ideology that started the war had to be destroyed utterly. And thank goodness it was, otherwise we would not be engaged in civil debate now.

D Glover
D Glover
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

A lot less than the 300,000 – 600,000 German civilians killed by allied bombing in WW2.
When you’re in a war of survival you don’t stop while the enemy reloads. The Israelis are fighting now just like the British did in 1940.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  D Glover

Israel is not in a ‘war for survival’. This is hardly that ten days in 1973, when it actually was on the ropes. The Hamas raid was repelled within 48 hours or so and since then, Israel has been engaged in stomping Gaza flat, plus nightly raids and frequent airstrikes on the West Bank. Any remaining Hamas capability to attack Israel was finished two or three weeks ago, but this goes on because the Israeli Cabinet – with, it seems, no end plan – can’t figure out when to stop. If anyone is engaged in a ‘fight for survival’ right now, it is the Gazan and West Bank Palestinians. I just saw the footage from the al-Fakhoora school, in the Jaballa refugee camp after the IDF strike a fortnight ago: wrecked classrooms, twisted bloody bodies of teachers and children all over.
This kind of thing is not exactly enhancing Israel’s standing in the world. Far from helping the cause of Israel’s long-term survival, these crude, excessive, sledgehammer tactics will have the opposite effect.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  D Glover

I suggest that one very effective way to limit both civilian and military suffering in wartime is to get the necessary job done as quickly as possible–not to linger for months or years as both sides did in World War I.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

Rather ‘small beer’ by Bomber Command’s standards.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago

That’s true. As the martinet General George Patton, then quartered in a small Ardennes village, doggereled to his diary in January 1945:
Little town of Houffalize
Here you sit on bended knees
God bless your people and keep them safe
Especially from the RAF.

Kevin Godwin
Kevin Godwin
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

In your opinion, what should have been the correct response by Israel after the hamas attack of October 7th?

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
4 months ago
Reply to  Kevin Godwin

That is a very fair question. In an ideal world, it would have negotiated a decent and mutually acceptable peace deal about 40 years ago, giving ground and concessions where necessary – rather than follow the ‘cake-and-eat-it’ approach of continued West Bank occupation, annexation and squeezing-out of Palestinians from their homeland that unconditional US support has turned out to permit. This was still doable, until probably about 15 years ago.
But by September 2023, things were where they were. And not to have tripled the guard on the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur, just as a routine precaution, seems astounding.
But to answer your question: in my opinion, the correct response would have been to rush troops to the raid zones as quickly as possible, and repel and/ or kill the Hamas force, which it did; sealed off and secured the border area – 50,000-100,000 troops should be more than ample for that – which it did; issued a general mobilisation, in case this was in some way a precursor to a more general attack, which it did; then taken a breath, assessed the situation, let Iron Dome tackle Hamas’s home-made rockets at its 98% success rate and targeted the launch sites with accurate counter-battery fire, all while having a good careful think about the next move and where it would lead – a restraint that would have strengthened its claim to moral high ground. Not flatten Gaza by the grid-square, hostages and all. Having hit back decisively, killed well over a thousand of the attackers and regained control along the previous front lines with massive firepower available on tap, it would have been a reasonable time to offer and attempt negotiations over the hostages and Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails (some 5,000 there detained indefinitely without trial, I understand), the status and future of Gaza and national status for the Palestinian people. To have held back and publicly made the offer would have done Israel a lot of good in the eyes of the world, clearly putting the onus on Hamas. But I doubt Bibi’s administration has the political, capital, vision or guts for that, given his own support base and compromised position in the eyes of the Israeli voting public. A man with a hammer sees only nails, and smiting is always the easy option (see Cameron on Libya and US Presidents passim).
What’s the end-game? Any fool can order air-strikes, but destroying and occupying Gaza won’t destroy Hamas, any more than 20 years of US occupation in Afghanistan destroyed the Taliban. What it will do, beyond the indiscriminate misery and suffering, is make Israel’s name mud in the non-aligned world and among the west’s under 30s; far worse than mud among the fast-expanding populations of its neighbouring Arab states; and recruit millions more to global Islamic radicalism.

Last edited 4 months ago by Peter Joy
Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

It’s true, Peter, as you say, that no army can ever destroy Hamas. That’s because no one can “kill” an idea, much less an inherited collection of ideas that relies on hatred. Unless the parents, teachers and imams of Gaza stop teaching any child that the most glorious fate is to become a martyr in jihad–that is, a terrorist–nothing will change. One generation of haters will beget another. But this doesn’t mean that Israeli parents should teach their own children that the only hope is to keep appeasing their sworn enemies and hoping for the best. Been there, done that.
As for their good name, why would Jewish history give the Israelis any reason at all to place their trust in “the world’s” good will? I’m not an expert on either military or political strategies, Peter, but I think that you’d have a hard time convincing Israel or any country to do that–and with good reason.

Last edited 4 months ago by Paul Nathanson
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
4 months ago
Reply to  Peter Joy

Libya government incompetence has killed more people( 18,000 to 20,000) than the Israeli’s attack on Gaza yet not a peep from the protestors. 6500 have died building stadia in Qatar.
Derna dam collapses – Wikipedia

David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Yes – in all but scale.

Mike Downing
Mike Downing
4 months ago

Orwell paraphrase; All lives are equal – but some lives are more equal than others.

Dylan Blackhurst
Dylan Blackhurst
4 months ago

Feminism and the left are lost.
They are holding together such ridiculous contradictions it’s painful to watch.
How so many of these people do the mental gymnastics required to keep their beliefs together is beyond me.
It’s time to wake up people.

William Cameron
William Cameron
4 months ago

At every turn the evidence shows that the sexual repression in Islamic faith causes violence.

Jennifer Lawrence
Jennifer Lawrence
4 months ago

Feminists have failed women failed by men again. I don’t know who this movement serves anymore apart from women who fundamentally hate themselves.

David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago

 I don’t know who this movement serves anymore apart from women who fundamentally hate themselves.

Er – that would be: women who hate men.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  David Morley

I got you up to 0, David, at least for the time being. But I wanted to get you much further than that.

Last edited 4 months ago by Paul Nathanson
Terry M
Terry M
4 months ago

Hamas and other Islamic organizations practice structural, institutional sexism and racism (anti-semitism). I guess the moronic feminists and gays are in favor of institutional sexism and racism after all.

Mike Downing
Mike Downing
4 months ago

Southall Black Sisters (aka Southall Race Grifters) have recent form. One of them was abused on the tube near an off-duty police officer who was slow to respond. She later ripped them off on TV for not springing to her defence. But I expect part of her ‘charity ‘ narrative is to constantly demean the same police officers as systematically racist yada yada.

Robert
Robert
4 months ago

“In response, Waxman tells me, Alsalem claimed the evidence was “not solid” enough to warrant a statement.”

This response is not uncommon. Perhaps the people that have evidence like the reporter mentioned and the IDF video we hear about need to start sharing it with the world. I understand maintaining privacy even in death. But this denial is a problem and there is only one way of refuting it. Saying, “Trust me, I saw the evidence” isn’t working.

Jennifer Lawrence
Jennifer Lawrence
4 months ago
Reply to  Robert

So true — our tendency to shrink away from any kind of positivism is the root cause of this. A return to realism is needed.

John Riordan
John Riordan
4 months ago

I very much hope that as some point, as the full horror of Hamas’s crimes against humanity become known and accepted as beyond doubt by all rational decent people, that the UK government will at least review the charitable status and public funding (if any) enjoyed by Hamas-apologist groups like those described above.

We cannot tolerate this disgraceful racism from official or semi-official people and organisations, and remain a decent society. Sadly however, I suspect that this will not happen, and we’ll operate upon a set of human rights principles which excludes Jews from the definition of human, which is where we appear to be headed.

That this will be disgusting beyond belief ought to go without saying, but a sign of our times is now that nothing can go without saying.

Last edited 4 months ago by John Riordan
Chipoko
Chipoko
4 months ago

The barbarians are at the gates wherever we look .

Arthur G
Arthur G
4 months ago
Reply to  Chipoko

They’re inside the walls. In our Universities, in Congress, teaching in our primary and secondary schools, running most of our Gov’t bureaucracies.

Chipoko
Chipoko
4 months ago
Reply to  Arthur G

What I cannot understand is how so many apparently ordinary people in ordinary stations of life are so brainwashed into spousing this extreme and self-destructive worldview. Perhaps that is the most scary thing of all.

David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago

To remedy this, Israeli feminists this week launched #MeToo_Unless_Ur_A_Jew

They may be overestimating the intelligence of their target audience. This may be taken literally!

Last edited 4 months ago by David Morley
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
4 months ago
Reply to  David Morley

That’s what i thought too!

Chipoko
Chipoko
4 months ago

I have absolutely zero in common with these sorts of people (feminists and others) who have such a malignant, depraved worldview. They are the manifestation of pure evil, as much as the Hamas scum who perpetrated such unspeakable deeds. I am deeply disturbed that anyone in the ‘civilised’ West can spout such horrendous thoughts. Their agenda is only to dominate and destroy/kill any dissent. What has happened to us?

Jonathon
Jonathon
4 months ago

This decade will no doubt be remembered as the decade where facts become irrelevant, evidence is not required or ignored, and a new cult of oppression Olympics takes a stronghold over Western democracies. These women in Israel are victims of this, and nothing will change I fear.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  Jonathon

After only a few weeks, have we already forgotten what happened on 7 October? You surely mean, Jonathan, that “These women and men in Israel are victims of this …”

sam parker
sam parker
4 months ago

The whole thing makes me feel sick . The horror that those still held hostage women would be going through is repulsive. I don’t even want to think about it because it is so beyond my ability to comprehend as a women. I could not go through it & I would want to die quickly, very quickly. I am so sorry for the women & their families but repulsed and enraged at the men, society and religion that could enact these atrocities and think it’s the right thing to do. I have no further words as a human being – you, that agree with these ideas and acts are repugnant and have no humanity, no dignity, no empathy and no right to live anymore as a human being because you are not a human sentient being you are animals beyond cruelty. Truly revolting and hopefully will one day realise the horror you have brought to the world, the world did not invite this horror – your horror, you brought it, encouraged others to engage in it, you must accept responsibility and accountability for it. You are at fault, you are to blame for this ungodly Armageddon you are bringing willingly to the world.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago
Reply to  sam parker

Who, Sam, is “you.”
Also, what does this mean: “sorry for the women & their families but repulsed and enraged at the men, society and religion that could enact these atrocities …” What about the male victims? Moreover, what about the Palestinian mothers who teach their sons to kill Jews, or at least Israelis? I haven’t see most of the videos, but I have seen one clip–many times–of a Hamas terrorist bragging euphorically to his mother and his sister, along with his father, about killing ten Jews. Not one or two but ten. He clearly expects them to be proud of him.

Ardath Blauvelt
Ardath Blauvelt
4 months ago

Start with hate crimes, hate speech. That somehow certain abuse was worse than other abuses, all the while declaring a desire for equality. But I digress. As soon as this competition began about who was the bigger victim, the possibility of hating the perpetrater was encouraged. And so it has gone. Hate, abuse, butchery, bigotry are all human evils, period. We add to it with our comparative distinctions. We created, or at least have permitted, this additional disparagement of the “other”.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
4 months ago

Precisely true, Ardath. I disagree about only one minor point. Comparative (competitive) suffering is not a “digression.” On the contrary, that argument lies at the heart of identity politics. Keep calling it out wherever you find it.

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
4 months ago

The Feminist Movement ran off the rails some time ago…..

Last edited 4 months ago by Cathy Carron
David Morley
David Morley
4 months ago
Reply to  Cathy Carron

Yes – hard to determine exactly when though. By the time it started taking Andrea Dworkin seriously it must have already been pretty far gone!

Lesley Keay
Lesley Keay
4 months ago

Before the events of Oct 7th I had not expressed an opinion on the Palestine/Israeli situation, believing that it’s complicated, faults on both sides etc etc. However, the deliberate barbarity of the atrocities committed by Hamas has left me astonished. I am also astonished at the capacity of so many people to excuse and attempt to justify the behaviour of Hamas. And the fact that groups’ which are meant to promote the rights and protections of women cannot bring themselves to condemn the rape, torture and murder of women demonstrates very clearly that they care nothing about the protection of women. But to be fair, some of us already knew this by their continuing silence in support of the victims of the Grooming Gangs. After all, you must be able to demonstrate your virtue correctly in the hierarchy of victimhood status.

simon lamb
simon lamb
4 months ago

We have watched Wokism grow and infiltrate Western society with a complacency born of the passing of harmless fads in the past. Historically, students frequently go though phases of excitable political awakening in which they (temporarily) adopt extreme views, and it’s seen as a right of passage. Though some observers have raised alarms, the majority have therefore shrugged at Wokism, expecting it to pass with maturity along with binge parties and communism. We have thus singularly failed to recognise the pernicious poison inherent in Wokism. It attempts to deconstruct the very western Judaeo-Christian values that have made the West the most tolerant, inclusive, and emotionally and legally mature civilization the world has ever seen. They do so by asserting that these are worthless because they have grown from original sin, from oppression – the universal oppression, such as slavery and authoritarianism, that western civilizations only escaped through Judaeo-Christian enlightenment. Britain was the first nation in the history of the world to ban slavery, and then fight militarily against it at great cost in lives and money. But to the woke that counts for nothing. They are intent on gaslighting the young and impressionable, of adopting their new “truth” – a wholly manufactured one. That “truth” we now see, isn’t merely political, it pervades and infects the very roots of human decency, of empathy, of compassion. The hypocrisy of its defense of gender disorientated minorities is exposed by its blatant political selectivity on human rights – especially those of women who just happen to be Jews – even those dedicated to challenging the Israeli government on behalf Palestinian rights.
If you thought western civilization was so established in fact and deed that it was forever unassailable, think again. There is a cancer in the very heart of western society that threatens to destroy us from within. It’s time to fight back – to root out this vile, racist slime currently materializing as antisemitism, before it rots our society.
It wasn’t only Jews that died in the holocaust, it was homosexuals, gypsies and many other minorities that caught the eye and ire of the Nazi Woke. And it was only possible through the gaslighting of core human values and the complacency and then complicity of once good people.
Some things never change: evil does indeed thrive where good men and women do nothing.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
4 months ago

There’s no money in pushing for justice for Israelis. they are too good at doing that themselves. So it only stands to reason that such groups would come down on the side of their pay cheques.

William Amos
William Amos
4 months ago

The cathartic effect of these articles focusing on the hypocrisy of the ‘other side’ grows ever less.
I can only guess there is a residual remnant of former true believers still coming to the painful realisation that the presentation of views from the insurgent relativists was never supposed to be decent, honest or truthful.
“It’s not hypocrisy, it’s hierarchy”

Mary Garner
Mary Garner
4 months ago

The atrocities are so sickening so horrific I want to hide my eyes. The hypocrisy of our women’s groups makes my blood run cold. Such crass statements scream ignorance and refusal to see

Dominic A
Dominic A
4 months ago

What happens when the prolitariat, ethnic minority matriarchy find out that they are the oppressors?

William Shaw
William Shaw
4 months ago

Nobody ever accused feminism of being logical, coherent or consistent.
I’ve ceased believing that feminists love women.
No, they simply hate men.