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William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

There is little to no pressure on young men to read, get and education or even a substantial job these days.
Freed from the expectations of marriage and supporting a family they don’t need much of an education or income… just enough to pay for internet, porn, fast food, and satellite TV.
Society has told them they are toxic and unnecessary so why is it surprising that they have found a new path in life, a path that avoids the burden of supporting a family.
The article is just crude language and pseudo intellectual twaddle by an ego that mistakenly thinks he has something important to say.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Emil Castelli
Emil Castelli
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

It is all being engineered.

Soros DAs let the criminals off to destroy – first, Black men, then society. The entire point of this system, the George Floyd thing – is to destroy Black Men. Just as you point out, White men are intentionally being destroyed as well by other means.

All which is decent is under attack by the Progressive Left, they mean to destroy the civilization of the Classical Enlightenment Liberals, the sort who brought us Man’s highest achievements – like the writers of the US Constitution. Their demonic philosophy is Postmodernism and Nhilos.

‘ex nihilo nihil fit” They believe in nothing, and from nothing comes nothing – they are the destroyers of decency and good.
Same attack is with woman – the Education system has them being something like 25% lesbian questioning – because it destroys them, as making them get pubity blockers, or trans male, and to not want children – it destroys them for their function of being in a married family – the Highest state of humanity.

Sexualizing children – this is entirely to mess them up so they do not end up as a married person with a well adjusted pairs of children. Because stopping that destroys society.

All Woke is to destroy Society – it is 5th Generation Warfare. It is the same as Hi* ler – out to destroy the decent world, only not in a kinetic warfare, but by psy-ops warfare, every bit as evil as the 1939 episode. The world survived that narrowly – this war on humanity we call woke is equally close to destroying us all – if we do not struggle against it, we are destroyed..

Look into Gates and Zuckerberg’s eyes – you can see demonic forces laughing out at you…..They and their Ilk bring you this.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Emil Castelli

I think the denigration of men, and particularly white men, is intentional because they are seen as the most likely opponents of the new world order. So we are told in Canada and US that white supremacy is the greatest threat to society – and the biggest terrorist threat – despite the fact that there a little or no actual incidents of white nationalist terrorism. For the record – I think this analysis is correct. The gun loving red necks of the US are probably going to save Western society because unlike the rest of us – I am looking at you my fellow Canadians – they take freedom seriously – their country was born in revolution – and they are willing and probably capable of fighting off a tyrannical take over by their elites. One of the most interesting videos I saw during the summer of BLM was Antifa trying to intimidate one of the suburbs of a US city. They were chanting – but in a subdued way – and not threatening home owners or vandalizing property as they often did in the city – because outside every house was a man calmly standing watching them with an AR15 rifle in his hands.

Mara
Mara
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

As an American, I think your perspective on this is keen. Something I’ve been seeing a lot too is that the media almost always questions the involvement of white supremacist ideology in high-profile crime stories where the perp is white (and sometimes, even when they’re not), even when there is no evidence yet to suggest it, yet racial motivations are almost never questioned when the perp is black or another race. I live in a predominantly black city, and there have been black on white crimes in the last year where it seemed rather obvious that racial hatred was a factor (for instance, hateful and threatening posts about white people made on social media), yet the news stories said things like, “no racial motivation is known at this time.” It’s become common knowledge in the U.S. that if a photo isn’t shown of a perp, it’s because they’re a minority, usually a black man, and the media is trying to gatekeep to protect the members of that racial group. If the perp is a white male, his photo will be widely published. The establishment is doing everything they can to vilify white Americans, particularly white men, though white women seem to have also been kicked out of the priestly class of the oppressed in the last couple of years. We’re now all hysterical, entitled “Karens,” no matter how under privileged the individual may actually be, and are often told to shut up or that we’re not allowed to have opinions any longer. But you are right – it is the white working class and ‘Merica types that are probably the most equipped and willing to try to save America, because everyone else is being brainwashed to want to destroy it and to hate freedom. To the woke, more freedom for their fellow citizens means more opportunity for people who don’t share their worldview to hurt their feelings, and they’ve been told no one should be allowed to hurt their feelings – that in fact, it should be punishable by law. The anti-woke are seen as animals, so their feelings are disregarded.

Last edited 1 year ago by Mara
Mara
Mara
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

As an American, I think your perspective on this is keen. Something I’ve been seeing a lot too is that the media almost always questions the involvement of white supremacist ideology in high-profile crime stories where the perp is white (and sometimes, even when they’re not), even when there is no evidence yet to suggest it, yet racial motivations are almost never questioned when the perp is black or another race. I live in a predominantly black city, and there have been black on white crimes in the last year where it seemed rather obvious that racial hatred was a factor (for instance, hateful and threatening posts about white people made on social media), yet the news stories said things like, “no racial motivation is known at this time.” It’s become common knowledge in the U.S. that if a photo isn’t shown of a perp, it’s because they’re a minority, usually a black man, and the media is trying to gatekeep to protect the members of that racial group. If the perp is a white male, his photo will be widely published. The establishment is doing everything they can to vilify white Americans, particularly white men, though white women seem to have also been kicked out of the priestly class of the oppressed in the last couple of years. We’re now all hysterical, entitled “Karens,” no matter how under privileged the individual may actually be, and are often told to shut up or that we’re not allowed to have opinions any longer. But you are right – it is the white working class and ‘Merica types that are probably the most equipped and willing to try to save America, because everyone else is being brainwashed to want to destroy it and to hate freedom. To the woke, more freedom for their fellow citizens means more opportunity for people who don’t share their worldview to hurt their feelings, and they’ve been told no one should be allowed to hurt their feelings – that in fact, it should be punishable by law. The anti-woke are seen as animals, so their feelings are disregarded.

Last edited 1 year ago by Mara
Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Emil Castelli

I think the denigration of men, and particularly white men, is intentional because they are seen as the most likely opponents of the new world order. So we are told in Canada and US that white supremacy is the greatest threat to society – and the biggest terrorist threat – despite the fact that there a little or no actual incidents of white nationalist terrorism. For the record – I think this analysis is correct. The gun loving red necks of the US are probably going to save Western society because unlike the rest of us – I am looking at you my fellow Canadians – they take freedom seriously – their country was born in revolution – and they are willing and probably capable of fighting off a tyrannical take over by their elites. One of the most interesting videos I saw during the summer of BLM was Antifa trying to intimidate one of the suburbs of a US city. They were chanting – but in a subdued way – and not threatening home owners or vandalizing property as they often did in the city – because outside every house was a man calmly standing watching them with an AR15 rifle in his hands.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

You are spot on about the author.
Anyway it is minorities and middle class women who are the the elite’s salivating attack dogs

Last edited 1 year ago by Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

In fact I will go one further, the author the elite’s salivating attack dogs.
In reality there is not a cigarette paper between them.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

In fact I will go one further, the author the elite’s salivating attack dogs.
In reality there is not a cigarette paper between them.

Suzanne C.
Suzanne C.
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

I can’t understand how a “writer” needs to use the f word twice in the first few lines.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Suzanne C.

To show he’s a man of the “people”?

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

He turned himself into a rich bourgeoise by penning the Trainspotting movie which made heroin addiction fashionable especially among working class youths in Scotland .

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Alan Osband

This article is actually utterly hilarious. A sexagenarian rich man extolling the virtues of raving (aye, Irvine’s 63 and still gieing it laldy – ya bas) and the the ‘traditional workplace,’ which he has been nowhere near for years. Welsh is a multi-millionaire. How many lifetimes will he need to spend all his heroin chic wealth? As the old Chumbawamba song put it…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6zkiWEfg1w

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
1 year ago
Reply to  Alan Osband

No, he wrote the novel, which if you read any of his work, helps you understand ordinary folks living on the housing schemes in Scotland especially in the 1990s.

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
1 year ago
Reply to  MJ Reid

Housing ‘schemes’ sound nefarious. So he interpreted the denizens of these housing schemes to the novel reading bourgeoisie .

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
1 year ago
Reply to  MJ Reid

Housing ‘schemes’ sound nefarious. So he interpreted the denizens of these housing schemes to the novel reading bourgeoisie .

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Alan Osband

This article is actually utterly hilarious. A sexagenarian rich man extolling the virtues of raving (aye, Irvine’s 63 and still gieing it laldy – ya bas) and the the ‘traditional workplace,’ which he has been nowhere near for years. Welsh is a multi-millionaire. How many lifetimes will he need to spend all his heroin chic wealth? As the old Chumbawamba song put it…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6zkiWEfg1w

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
1 year ago
Reply to  Alan Osband

No, he wrote the novel, which if you read any of his work, helps you understand ordinary folks living on the housing schemes in Scotland especially in the 1990s.

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

He turned himself into a rich bourgeoise by penning the Trainspotting movie which made heroin addiction fashionable especially among working class youths in Scotland .

Mike Robinson
Mike Robinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Suzanne C.

It shows he’s angry? No interest in reading after that…

Last edited 1 year ago by Mike Robinson
Diane Tasker
Diane Tasker
1 year ago
Reply to  Suzanne C.

It’s a cheap device to signpost his credentials as a writer of gritty screenplays and his allegiance to the subjects of the article (although his reference to them is meagre and rather lost in his article). It seemed an angry rant that overwhelmed and obliterated the subject matter.

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Tasker

It went off-topic in seconds, and mostly stayed there.

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Tasker

It went off-topic in seconds, and mostly stayed there.

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown
1 year ago
Reply to  Suzanne C.

I can’t understand why so many “readers” get their knickers in a twist over Welsh’s use of word “f**k” (or “f*****g”).
A 30-second check reveals that Welsh uses it a total of six times in an article over 2400 words. Shocking!
Yes, there’s a legitimate (though uncovincing) argument that he uses it gratuitously – at least at times – but overall it’s obvious that some of you are just small-minded, overly-sensitive prudes…!
PS The fact that UnHerd has decided to automatically insert asterisks whenever the word “f**k” is used in a comment is both hilarious and pathetic!

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan Brown
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Suzanne C.

To show he’s a man of the “people”?

Mike Robinson
Mike Robinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Suzanne C.

It shows he’s angry? No interest in reading after that…

Last edited 1 year ago by Mike Robinson
Diane Tasker
Diane Tasker
1 year ago
Reply to  Suzanne C.

It’s a cheap device to signpost his credentials as a writer of gritty screenplays and his allegiance to the subjects of the article (although his reference to them is meagre and rather lost in his article). It seemed an angry rant that overwhelmed and obliterated the subject matter.

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown
1 year ago
Reply to  Suzanne C.

I can’t understand why so many “readers” get their knickers in a twist over Welsh’s use of word “f**k” (or “f*****g”).
A 30-second check reveals that Welsh uses it a total of six times in an article over 2400 words. Shocking!
Yes, there’s a legitimate (though uncovincing) argument that he uses it gratuitously – at least at times – but overall it’s obvious that some of you are just small-minded, overly-sensitive prudes…!
PS The fact that UnHerd has decided to automatically insert asterisks whenever the word “f**k” is used in a comment is both hilarious and pathetic!

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan Brown
Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

“The article is just crude language and pseudo intellectual twaddle by an ego that mistakenly thinks he has something important to say.”

Couldn’t agree more. Too many words, too much unnecessary swearing, too much pretension.

I have an image of the writing looking admiringly at himself as he writes…

Steve Edwards
Steve Edwards
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Willian, your final sentence does it for me!
Irvine, I’m sure Scottish manhood benefits from the Scottish N*zi Party governance of your domain.
BTW shouldn’t you be on the South Coast screeching “For God’s sake don’t come here they are Imperialist, Colonialist, Racist, Sexist, Homophobic, Transphobic, Islamophobic and worst of all, boo hoo, THEY VOTED FOR BREXIT!!!”

Curts
Curts
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Correct. What a pseudo intellectual pretentious mess.
“Conversely, black teenagers in inner London estates, continually the victims of harassment by the Metropolitan Police and at the bottom of Britain’s opportunity pile,”
Actually old sun i can point you in the direction of multiple books and studies that clearly show the band of youth in the UK with the least opportunities, lowest performance in any educational area and worse chances in life are, and have been for some time, young white working class males.
What a load of drivel.
Sticking f**k in every 3 lines doesn’t make you street, it makes you sound a has-been.

Last edited 1 year ago by Curts
Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Curts

But he IS a has-been. When was the last time he was relevant? Seriously.

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Curts

But he IS a has-been. When was the last time he was relevant? Seriously.

Stu B
Stu B
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

The disdain for the author and his writing style on show in the comment section is really remarkable. It’s interesting to note that no one has really taken on the substance of what he’s said. If this is the way the intellectually pretentious chattering classes treats a working class white man who’s done well for himself (it seems that disqualifies him from holding his opinions?) then in a sort of meta way you’re demonstrating the problem and are a part of it. What is it, if he won’t talk nicely like you then he’s got no value? Shame on you all, quite honestly.

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Unlike yourself, sir!

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Whatever you think of this article, claiming that it is “just crude language” is blatant nonsense (and, frankly, embarrassing!)

Emil Castelli
Emil Castelli
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

It is all being engineered.

Soros DAs let the criminals off to destroy – first, Black men, then society. The entire point of this system, the George Floyd thing – is to destroy Black Men. Just as you point out, White men are intentionally being destroyed as well by other means.

All which is decent is under attack by the Progressive Left, they mean to destroy the civilization of the Classical Enlightenment Liberals, the sort who brought us Man’s highest achievements – like the writers of the US Constitution. Their demonic philosophy is Postmodernism and Nhilos.

‘ex nihilo nihil fit” They believe in nothing, and from nothing comes nothing – they are the destroyers of decency and good.
Same attack is with woman – the Education system has them being something like 25% lesbian questioning – because it destroys them, as making them get pubity blockers, or trans male, and to not want children – it destroys them for their function of being in a married family – the Highest state of humanity.

Sexualizing children – this is entirely to mess them up so they do not end up as a married person with a well adjusted pairs of children. Because stopping that destroys society.

All Woke is to destroy Society – it is 5th Generation Warfare. It is the same as Hi* ler – out to destroy the decent world, only not in a kinetic warfare, but by psy-ops warfare, every bit as evil as the 1939 episode. The world survived that narrowly – this war on humanity we call woke is equally close to destroying us all – if we do not struggle against it, we are destroyed..

Look into Gates and Zuckerberg’s eyes – you can see demonic forces laughing out at you…..They and their Ilk bring you this.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

You are spot on about the author.
Anyway it is minorities and middle class women who are the the elite’s salivating attack dogs

Last edited 1 year ago by Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Suzanne C.
Suzanne C.
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

I can’t understand how a “writer” needs to use the f word twice in the first few lines.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

“The article is just crude language and pseudo intellectual twaddle by an ego that mistakenly thinks he has something important to say.”

Couldn’t agree more. Too many words, too much unnecessary swearing, too much pretension.

I have an image of the writing looking admiringly at himself as he writes…

Steve Edwards
Steve Edwards
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Willian, your final sentence does it for me!
Irvine, I’m sure Scottish manhood benefits from the Scottish N*zi Party governance of your domain.
BTW shouldn’t you be on the South Coast screeching “For God’s sake don’t come here they are Imperialist, Colonialist, Racist, Sexist, Homophobic, Transphobic, Islamophobic and worst of all, boo hoo, THEY VOTED FOR BREXIT!!!”

Curts
Curts
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Correct. What a pseudo intellectual pretentious mess.
“Conversely, black teenagers in inner London estates, continually the victims of harassment by the Metropolitan Police and at the bottom of Britain’s opportunity pile,”
Actually old sun i can point you in the direction of multiple books and studies that clearly show the band of youth in the UK with the least opportunities, lowest performance in any educational area and worse chances in life are, and have been for some time, young white working class males.
What a load of drivel.
Sticking f**k in every 3 lines doesn’t make you street, it makes you sound a has-been.

Last edited 1 year ago by Curts
Stu B
Stu B
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

The disdain for the author and his writing style on show in the comment section is really remarkable. It’s interesting to note that no one has really taken on the substance of what he’s said. If this is the way the intellectually pretentious chattering classes treats a working class white man who’s done well for himself (it seems that disqualifies him from holding his opinions?) then in a sort of meta way you’re demonstrating the problem and are a part of it. What is it, if he won’t talk nicely like you then he’s got no value? Shame on you all, quite honestly.

MJ Reid
MJ Reid
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Unlike yourself, sir!

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Whatever you think of this article, claiming that it is “just crude language” is blatant nonsense (and, frankly, embarrassing!)

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

There is little to no pressure on young men to read, get and education or even a substantial job these days.
Freed from the expectations of marriage and supporting a family they don’t need much of an education or income… just enough to pay for internet, porn, fast food, and satellite TV.
Society has told them they are toxic and unnecessary so why is it surprising that they have found a new path in life, a path that avoids the burden of supporting a family.
The article is just crude language and pseudo intellectual twaddle by an ego that mistakenly thinks he has something important to say.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago

Some interesting and useful thoughts buried in there.
There’s no such thing as “white, bourgeois, male privilege”.
Irvine Welsh is every bit as guilty of trying to divide people up into groups, give everyone a label and then claim that those at the top must all be undeserving and are somehow an oppressor class. He’s playing the same infantile game as those he argues against in this rant and no better than them. He claims that class “unites” and identity “divides”. Really ?
There’s certainly effective discrimination and prejudice against the ordinary white bloke now. Welsh’s advice to educate and inform yourself is good. But his divisive and archaic class war attitudes definitely aren’t any solution.

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

Not realising this is a class war is a problem. Which is why commentators on UnHerd aren’t really going to solve it.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago

All the issues that divide us – Covid, racism, net zero, gender – are the result of corporate and technocratic interests aligning together to preserve their power. The foolish, neoliberal elite that have dominated our institutions for the last three decades have intentionally or unintentionally deindustrialized the west. All these disparate issues are meant to keep the working class from uniting and demanding better governance.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago

All the issues that divide us – Covid, racism, net zero, gender – are the result of corporate and technocratic interests aligning together to preserve their power. The foolish, neoliberal elite that have dominated our institutions for the last three decades have intentionally or unintentionally deindustrialized the west. All these disparate issues are meant to keep the working class from uniting and demanding better governance.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

There is no doubt that if you’ve listened to interviews over the years he a pretty angry take no prisoners kind of guy. I heard him going off about Thatcher in an interview and his visceral hatred of her and the British political class nearly shorted out my radio.

Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
Mr Sketerzen Bhoto
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

Not realising this is a class war is a problem. Which is why commentators on UnHerd aren’t really going to solve it.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

There is no doubt that if you’ve listened to interviews over the years he a pretty angry take no prisoners kind of guy. I heard him going off about Thatcher in an interview and his visceral hatred of her and the British political class nearly shorted out my radio.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago

Some interesting and useful thoughts buried in there.
There’s no such thing as “white, bourgeois, male privilege”.
Irvine Welsh is every bit as guilty of trying to divide people up into groups, give everyone a label and then claim that those at the top must all be undeserving and are somehow an oppressor class. He’s playing the same infantile game as those he argues against in this rant and no better than them. He claims that class “unites” and identity “divides”. Really ?
There’s certainly effective discrimination and prejudice against the ordinary white bloke now. Welsh’s advice to educate and inform yourself is good. But his divisive and archaic class war attitudes definitely aren’t any solution.

Neil Buckman
Neil Buckman
1 year ago

I find his language unnecessarily crude.

Last edited 1 year ago by Neil Buckman
Emil Castelli
Emil Castelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

I did not read it – he presents a thuggish, angry, crude persona in the first paragraph.. I suppose he thinks it edgy, or something. It is similar to going to hear an Unherd feminist writer talk and she just shrieks at the audience – who cares what she says – it is not worth the effort. (stereotypes, haha)

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
1 year ago
Reply to  Emil Castelli

You didn’t read it so what you’ve written is an abstract on your prejudices? Somewhat arrogant, no?

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Iddon

No. Completely justified and correct.

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

The depth of your argument seems somewhat ironic – swearing may or may not add to emphasis – it is often an adjective, generally meaning “very”. To dismiss content based on nothing more than your faux sensitivity is somewhere between priggish and crass imho.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

The depth of your argument seems somewhat ironic – swearing may or may not add to emphasis – it is often an adjective, generally meaning “very”. To dismiss content based on nothing more than your faux sensitivity is somewhere between priggish and crass imho.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andy Iddon
Dumetrius
Dumetrius
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Iddon

“I never read a book before reviewing it. I find it prejudices a man so.”

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Iddon

No. Completely justified and correct.

Dumetrius
Dumetrius
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Iddon

“I never read a book before reviewing it. I find it prejudices a man so.”

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Emil Castelli

Or listening to male stand-up comics for whom the f word is every second word

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
1 year ago
Reply to  Emil Castelli

You didn’t read it so what you’ve written is an abstract on your prejudices? Somewhat arrogant, no?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Emil Castelli

Or listening to male stand-up comics for whom the f word is every second word

J Bryant
J Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

Agreed. That style worked well in Trainspotting but not here. He also doesn’t provide new substantive analysis. He accurately summarizes the plight of white working class men but that’s been done many times before.

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

Hmm, done before equals irrelevance? What changed? Perhaps it is still the root of the problem, that reality has been distorted, dividing people and distracting public opinion from the true nature of our systemic social malaise?

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

Hmm, done before equals irrelevance? What changed? Perhaps it is still the root of the problem, that reality has been distorted, dividing people and distracting public opinion from the true nature of our systemic social malaise?

Fred Oakley
Fred Oakley
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

Oh I say Mr Darcy, a swearword! How uncouth!

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
1 year ago
Reply to  Fred Oakley

Childish remark. Mr Buckman is absolutely correct, it’s not the appearance of swear words, but their unnecessary use along with crudity such as “a (white) p***s in the underpants is more important than the lack of an arse in the trousers”. I read practically everything from unherd, and I am not used to seeing language remotely like that. In my experience, crudity of language, stems from crudity of thought.

Fred Oakley
Fred Oakley
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

p***s is a biological appendage last time I checked, not crudity. The Victoria era called and mentioned something about wishing you’d return with their time machine?

Fred Oakley
Fred Oakley
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil Rees

p***s is a biological appendage last time I checked, not crudity. The Victoria era called and mentioned something about wishing you’d return with their time machine?

Phil Rees
Phil Rees
1 year ago
Reply to  Fred Oakley

Childish remark. Mr Buckman is absolutely correct, it’s not the appearance of swear words, but their unnecessary use along with crudity such as “a (white) p***s in the underpants is more important than the lack of an arse in the trousers”. I read practically everything from unherd, and I am not used to seeing language remotely like that. In my experience, crudity of language, stems from crudity of thought.

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

Whilst your content is arbitrarily dismissive? Some contest!

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

I find our media, politicians, politics, police, teachers and education, social attitudes and most people very crude. Irving Welsh’s prose always spits at you, it’s what he does and just because he says f*** a few times you get upset about it.
How about getting angry?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

Saying f**k that many times loses all meaning.

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

A total of six times, in over 2400 words, Grow up Clare!

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

A total of six times, in over 2400 words, Grow up Clare!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Clarke

Saying f**k that many times loses all meaning.

Gordon Buckman
Gordon Buckman
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

To the point though…

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

I think it lends authenticity. Many working class men use the eff word.

Sharon Hall
Sharon Hall
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Many people say the word f**k you mean, not just working class men. I’m sure that is what you were getting at and that you weren’t being condescending at all.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Not to mention all the middle-class women. This is all to make them seem edgy and down with the people, meaning that they can say or write any dross and we are expected to take it seriously. Not that Mr Welsh’s writing is dross, it is just not that revealing and offers little in the way of solutions. The working class in general, but particularly the male, white, working-class have been reviled for long time now; you remember Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy, the working-class woman from Rochdale from 2010. I think that the “liberal” left are actually afraid of them; they’re ok when they do as they’re told, but when they get all “uppity” they threaten the values, and even the status, of the liberal middle-class. These “progressives” do not want any form of “progress” that includes the proles; it’s our sort of “progress” and is for our kind of people only.

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Irvine Welsh is a multi-millionaire who divides his time between Scotland and America. He hasn’t been anywhere near the working class, or the joyous ‘traditional workplace’ he froths over, in decades.

Sharon Hall
Sharon Hall
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Many people say the word f**k you mean, not just working class men. I’m sure that is what you were getting at and that you weren’t being condescending at all.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Not to mention all the middle-class women. This is all to make them seem edgy and down with the people, meaning that they can say or write any dross and we are expected to take it seriously. Not that Mr Welsh’s writing is dross, it is just not that revealing and offers little in the way of solutions. The working class in general, but particularly the male, white, working-class have been reviled for long time now; you remember Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy, the working-class woman from Rochdale from 2010. I think that the “liberal” left are actually afraid of them; they’re ok when they do as they’re told, but when they get all “uppity” they threaten the values, and even the status, of the liberal middle-class. These “progressives” do not want any form of “progress” that includes the proles; it’s our sort of “progress” and is for our kind of people only.

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Irvine Welsh is a multi-millionaire who divides his time between Scotland and America. He hasn’t been anywhere near the working class, or the joyous ‘traditional workplace’ he froths over, in decades.

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

That’s almost certainly because you’re a prude.
(There are justified criticisms of this article, but the absurd over-sensitivity of a number of responders here is both sad and hilarious!)

Emil Castelli
Emil Castelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

I did not read it – he presents a thuggish, angry, crude persona in the first paragraph.. I suppose he thinks it edgy, or something. It is similar to going to hear an Unherd feminist writer talk and she just shrieks at the audience – who cares what she says – it is not worth the effort. (stereotypes, haha)

J Bryant
J Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

Agreed. That style worked well in Trainspotting but not here. He also doesn’t provide new substantive analysis. He accurately summarizes the plight of white working class men but that’s been done many times before.

Fred Oakley
Fred Oakley
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

Oh I say Mr Darcy, a swearword! How uncouth!

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

Whilst your content is arbitrarily dismissive? Some contest!

Nigel Clarke
Nigel Clarke
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

I find our media, politicians, politics, police, teachers and education, social attitudes and most people very crude. Irving Welsh’s prose always spits at you, it’s what he does and just because he says f*** a few times you get upset about it.
How about getting angry?

Gordon Buckman
Gordon Buckman
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

To the point though…

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

I think it lends authenticity. Many working class men use the eff word.

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown
1 year ago
Reply to  Neil Buckman

That’s almost certainly because you’re a prude.
(There are justified criticisms of this article, but the absurd over-sensitivity of a number of responders here is both sad and hilarious!)

Neil Buckman
Neil Buckman
1 year ago

I find his language unnecessarily crude.

Last edited 1 year ago by Neil Buckman
polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

Odd. My father was about as white working class as you can get – soldier, fireman, raised in East London,couple of years as a pow. I don’t recall him ever talking with the same crass vulgarity as this man

Judy Englander
Judy Englander
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Exactly.

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  Judy Englander

I wonder if this is how middle class novelists think that this is how working class men talk.
I didn’t hear my father swear – ever. He did admit though, that British pows would swear at and mock their middle-aged German guards, driving them into a state of purple-faced rage as they simply didn’t know how to hit back. Well, except with a rifle butt. And you didn’t swear at SS troops – they would shoot people out of hand.
My father developed a low opinions of Germans and novelists.

Last edited 1 year ago by polidori redux
Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

“My father developed a low opinions of Germans and novelists.” Best and funniest line in this whole article and comments section. 🙂

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

“My father developed a low opinions of Germans and novelists.” Best and funniest line in this whole article and comments section. 🙂

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  Judy Englander

I wonder if this is how middle class novelists think that this is how working class men talk.
I didn’t hear my father swear – ever. He did admit though, that British pows would swear at and mock their middle-aged German guards, driving them into a state of purple-faced rage as they simply didn’t know how to hit back. Well, except with a rifle butt. And you didn’t swear at SS troops – they would shoot people out of hand.
My father developed a low opinions of Germans and novelists.

Last edited 1 year ago by polidori redux
Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

It’s a generational thing, though – and Welsh is of course Scottish, and probably quite a bit younger than your father. This is explanatory of course, not exculpatory.

Glyn R
Glyn R
1 year ago

Oh yes foul language is now the norm for many just as low aspiration is – why is that? Is it the collective influence of film makers and writers and low expectations of politicians and so-called educators on the public consciousness?

JP Martin
JP Martin
1 year ago
Reply to  Glyn R

It’s the linguistic equivalent of rich people wearing a hoodie and trainers. It’s all signalling.

JP Martin
JP Martin
1 year ago
Reply to  Glyn R

It’s the linguistic equivalent of rich people wearing a hoodie and trainers. It’s all signalling.

Glyn R
Glyn R
1 year ago

Oh yes foul language is now the norm for many just as low aspiration is – why is that? Is it the collective influence of film makers and writers and low expectations of politicians and so-called educators on the public consciousness?

Judy Englander
Judy Englander
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Exactly.

Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

It’s a generational thing, though – and Welsh is of course Scottish, and probably quite a bit younger than your father. This is explanatory of course, not exculpatory.

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

Odd. My father was about as white working class as you can get – soldier, fireman, raised in East London,couple of years as a pow. I don’t recall him ever talking with the same crass vulgarity as this man

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

While I take issue with certain aspects of this piece, its heart is in the right place. Instead of staying mired in misery young white working class men need to break out of it, get a lust for life, become masters of themselves and tell their lords and masters to f*** off.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Quite. The “self help” part is helpful. The “class war” part definitely is not.
It was a hard read and a struggle to stick with it and see the value. Or perhaps the author actually wanted to wind us up ?

Derek Smith
Derek Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

‘…get a lust for life…’

I see what you did there…

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

If young white men actually did this in a meaningful way, the media would immediately demonise them and the author and most of the writers and commenters on unherd would be terrified of them and the threat they posed to the apple cart with its various entitlements and pensions.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

But if they did so they might reject the views of the author an his friend and sponsors in the elite. That would never do.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Quite. The “self help” part is helpful. The “class war” part definitely is not.
It was a hard read and a struggle to stick with it and see the value. Or perhaps the author actually wanted to wind us up ?

Derek Smith
Derek Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

‘…get a lust for life…’

I see what you did there…

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

If young white men actually did this in a meaningful way, the media would immediately demonise them and the author and most of the writers and commenters on unherd would be terrified of them and the threat they posed to the apple cart with its various entitlements and pensions.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

But if they did so they might reject the views of the author an his friend and sponsors in the elite. That would never do.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

While I take issue with certain aspects of this piece, its heart is in the right place. Instead of staying mired in misery young white working class men need to break out of it, get a lust for life, become masters of themselves and tell their lords and masters to f*** off.

Glyn R
Glyn R
1 year ago

There was a brief glimmer of hope for the betrayed and abandoned white working class when Frank Field was appointed Blue Skies thinker for Blair. He spoke out about the welfare trap, the loss of opportunity and potential by bad education and the need for a major rethink. Blair quickly removed him from that office.

Last edited 1 year ago by Glyn R
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Glyn R

Yes, Field was one of the most under-rated parliamentarians of his generation. He probably wasn’t enough of a ‘politician’ to really make the difference he might’ve done.

Mark Gourley
Mark Gourley
1 year ago
Reply to  Glyn R

Absolutely. Truly great man whose inputs were sadly disregarded. His recent book is well worth reading.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Glyn R

Yes, Field was one of the most under-rated parliamentarians of his generation. He probably wasn’t enough of a ‘politician’ to really make the difference he might’ve done.

Mark Gourley
Mark Gourley
1 year ago
Reply to  Glyn R

Absolutely. Truly great man whose inputs were sadly disregarded. His recent book is well worth reading.

Glyn R
Glyn R
1 year ago

There was a brief glimmer of hope for the betrayed and abandoned white working class when Frank Field was appointed Blue Skies thinker for Blair. He spoke out about the welfare trap, the loss of opportunity and potential by bad education and the need for a major rethink. Blair quickly removed him from that office.

Last edited 1 year ago by Glyn R
tr67j6bdww
tr67j6bdww
1 year ago

I think this piece is heading in the right direction but saying patriarchy gave us “bad art” is such a silly nonsensical claim. If patriarchy has been the dominant organizing force for centuries then by inference it gave us all art, good and bad, unless the author is claiming we’ve had no good art.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  tr67j6bdww

I wondered about that. I suspect Welsh has a preference (as in his own work) for ‘transgressive’ art, which challenges perceptions and boundaries.
Much of modern art is didactic – but not all of it. However, one only has to wander through the rooms and rooms of very average derivative artworks in many museums (including the best, such as the Louvre) to consider what Welsh may be referring to as ‘bad art’. The best of the Renaissance and in the intervening period up to Modernism is, of course, civilisation-defining. But there’s an awful lot that isn’t, just copying accepted styles with perhaps a high degree of technical competence but no real insight into the human condition.

Judy Englander
Judy Englander
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Call me philistine, but I don’t think I want ‘real insight into the human condition’ from art.

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Why in the world should art have “real insight into the human condition”?

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Rob C

If you have to ask, there’s no point providing an answer.
What do you think it’s about, providing pretty little pictures?

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Rob C

If you have to ask, there’s no point providing an answer.
What do you think it’s about, providing pretty little pictures?

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
Judy Englander
Judy Englander
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Call me philistine, but I don’t think I want ‘real insight into the human condition’ from art.

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Why in the world should art have “real insight into the human condition”?

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  tr67j6bdww

I wondered about that. I suspect Welsh has a preference (as in his own work) for ‘transgressive’ art, which challenges perceptions and boundaries.
Much of modern art is didactic – but not all of it. However, one only has to wander through the rooms and rooms of very average derivative artworks in many museums (including the best, such as the Louvre) to consider what Welsh may be referring to as ‘bad art’. The best of the Renaissance and in the intervening period up to Modernism is, of course, civilisation-defining. But there’s an awful lot that isn’t, just copying accepted styles with perhaps a high degree of technical competence but no real insight into the human condition.

tr67j6bdww
tr67j6bdww
1 year ago

I think this piece is heading in the right direction but saying patriarchy gave us “bad art” is such a silly nonsensical claim. If patriarchy has been the dominant organizing force for centuries then by inference it gave us all art, good and bad, unless the author is claiming we’ve had no good art.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago

This neat compartmentalization (“white, working-class male”, etc.) is very convenient for lazy novelists who couldn’t be bothered to develop their characters. But for me, each such category masks a huge diversity.
The world view expressed in this article is the hallmark of much of commercially-successful contemporary Scottish fiction. It also corresponds closely to the agenda of the cultural elite, such as the BBC, though they would express it without the four-letter expletives.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

That’s pretty much my take. It’s an attempt by Welsh to appear relevant. I found it mainly incoherent with just the odd useful point thrown in; for instance around his preferences for male or female friendship groups.

Glyn R
Glyn R
1 year ago

I agree. For example, I grew up in Salford in the 60s and 70s and such liberal use of the f word was not general currency – it might have been the case in Glasgow, I could not say. In Salford that word was generally expressed with a two finger salute if at all. I suppose, back then, it wasn’t felt necessary to prove one’s bona fide social status by peppering every point with bad language.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

That’s pretty much my take. It’s an attempt by Welsh to appear relevant. I found it mainly incoherent with just the odd useful point thrown in; for instance around his preferences for male or female friendship groups.

Glyn R
Glyn R
1 year ago

I agree. For example, I grew up in Salford in the 60s and 70s and such liberal use of the f word was not general currency – it might have been the case in Glasgow, I could not say. In Salford that word was generally expressed with a two finger salute if at all. I suppose, back then, it wasn’t felt necessary to prove one’s bona fide social status by peppering every point with bad language.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago

This neat compartmentalization (“white, working-class male”, etc.) is very convenient for lazy novelists who couldn’t be bothered to develop their characters. But for me, each such category masks a huge diversity.
The world view expressed in this article is the hallmark of much of commercially-successful contemporary Scottish fiction. It also corresponds closely to the agenda of the cultural elite, such as the BBC, though they would express it without the four-letter expletives.

John Croteau
John Croteau
1 year ago

Hard to get through the unnecessarily crude language. Irvine totally misses white, working-class males’ connection to the Trump phenomenon. To them, making America great again means going back to aspirations of a Capitalist meritocracy where corporate integrity, honest work, fair wages, and family values make everyone — including white males — feel respected and rewarded. Debate any one of those things and you simply do not remember or understand the America of the past. We were/are an imperfect union and constant work in progress, still far better than the corrupt Deep State, FDA, Big Pharma, Big Tech, Legacy Media, DEI that seeks to divide the People and judge them by the color of their skin (or gender, sexual preference or identity) rather than the content of their character. Congress needs to be cleansed, as do the Board rooms of corrupt and woke corporations. THAT is the existential threat Trump presents to the Establishment. How else could you explain weaponized government and legal assaults, as well as zealous support for an otherwise objectionable individual?

Last edited 1 year ago by John Croteau
John Croteau
John Croteau
1 year ago

Hard to get through the unnecessarily crude language. Irvine totally misses white, working-class males’ connection to the Trump phenomenon. To them, making America great again means going back to aspirations of a Capitalist meritocracy where corporate integrity, honest work, fair wages, and family values make everyone — including white males — feel respected and rewarded. Debate any one of those things and you simply do not remember or understand the America of the past. We were/are an imperfect union and constant work in progress, still far better than the corrupt Deep State, FDA, Big Pharma, Big Tech, Legacy Media, DEI that seeks to divide the People and judge them by the color of their skin (or gender, sexual preference or identity) rather than the content of their character. Congress needs to be cleansed, as do the Board rooms of corrupt and woke corporations. THAT is the existential threat Trump presents to the Establishment. How else could you explain weaponized government and legal assaults, as well as zealous support for an otherwise objectionable individual?

Last edited 1 year ago by John Croteau
N Satori
N Satori
1 year ago

Cards on the table: I’ve never been interested in the cult of Irvine Welsh and his Trainspotting novel or flm. This extended rant has all the shallow insight of an angry bar-room-bore revolutionary well into his drinks. Just as with the rantings of boozed up pub demagogue I found myself looking for the exit.
But I made the effort to read on to the end where this gem can be found:

f**k that. Pick up a book instead. Let’s get educated. The smarter we are, the less easy it is for the unenlightened greed junkies to f**k things up for us.

which could so easily be the desperate battle cry of keyboard warriors and keyboard sleuthers accross the worldwide web.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  N Satori

I respect that you we’re able to wade through what you didn’t like and acknowledge that gem. I know what you mean about the pub-rant self-indulgence, but there is also a measure of substance (2.5 “substance units”?) amidst the pugnacious posturing.
If y’all in the UnHerd flock want a real challenge: Please tolerate wild/over-the-top articles, including ones you dislike. Some of them will be a waste of time or “vanity and vexation of spirit”, but that’s better than a predictable, comfortable sleepwalk…right?

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Thoroughly agree with that.

N Satori
N Satori
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

What a very strange comment, AJ Mac! Why should my criticism of an article be met with a the plea for tolerance?! Did I ask for the piece to be removed? Did I demand that Irving Welsh never be allowed to publish here ever again? Nope! I expressed my low opinion of the piece and made a particular point about final paragraph.
Please learn to tolerate criticism of articles, particularly criticisms you dislike! [And that goes for you too Steve Murray!]

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  N Satori

You totally mistake my intent. I meant to applaud your willingness to see something good in what you mostly don’t like. The second part of my comment was pointed toward the whole commentariat here at UnHerd, advocating for patience and tolerance for views one doesn’t share (which you demonstrated yourself), instead of some particular, oppositional point of view that one might prefer. To be honest, I’m opinionated and snap-judgmental too–but I’m trying to cut down!
(afterthought: And I see I could have made meaning more clear, so I apologize)

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  N Satori

You totally mistake my intent. I meant to applaud your willingness to see something good in what you mostly don’t like. The second part of my comment was pointed toward the whole commentariat here at UnHerd, advocating for patience and tolerance for views one doesn’t share (which you demonstrated yourself), instead of some particular, oppositional point of view that one might prefer. To be honest, I’m opinionated and snap-judgmental too–but I’m trying to cut down!
(afterthought: And I see I could have made meaning more clear, so I apologize)

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Thoroughly agree with that.

N Satori
N Satori
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

What a very strange comment, AJ Mac! Why should my criticism of an article be met with a the plea for tolerance?! Did I ask for the piece to be removed? Did I demand that Irving Welsh never be allowed to publish here ever again? Nope! I expressed my low opinion of the piece and made a particular point about final paragraph.
Please learn to tolerate criticism of articles, particularly criticisms you dislike! [And that goes for you too Steve Murray!]

T Bone
T Bone
1 year ago
Reply to  N Satori

Except for the word “unenlightened.” I don’t buy that reading books is the secret to “enlightenment.” I’ve met plenty of manual labor folks that aren’t well read that can fix things, make a good living and raise their family right. They learn things in the real world and have human interactions that books can never teach. I try to remember that as an “educated person.” There’s people with less formal education that know things I dont.

Last edited 1 year ago by T Bone
Kenda Grant
Kenda Grant
1 year ago
Reply to  T Bone

Exactly, education doesn’t equal learning. In fact, the higher up you go, the narrower the thinking often becomes. And the more groupthink is incentivized. Regardless of how many letters you have after your name, enlightenment comes from asking questions, seeking out all available data/POV (not just that which is delivered to you) and asking “Who benefits from this [insert narrative, ideology, POV]?.

Kenda Grant
Kenda Grant
1 year ago
Reply to  T Bone

Exactly, education doesn’t equal learning. In fact, the higher up you go, the narrower the thinking often becomes. And the more groupthink is incentivized. Regardless of how many letters you have after your name, enlightenment comes from asking questions, seeking out all available data/POV (not just that which is delivered to you) and asking “Who benefits from this [insert narrative, ideology, POV]?.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  N Satori

I respect that you we’re able to wade through what you didn’t like and acknowledge that gem. I know what you mean about the pub-rant self-indulgence, but there is also a measure of substance (2.5 “substance units”?) amidst the pugnacious posturing.
If y’all in the UnHerd flock want a real challenge: Please tolerate wild/over-the-top articles, including ones you dislike. Some of them will be a waste of time or “vanity and vexation of spirit”, but that’s better than a predictable, comfortable sleepwalk…right?

T Bone
T Bone
1 year ago
Reply to  N Satori

Except for the word “unenlightened.” I don’t buy that reading books is the secret to “enlightenment.” I’ve met plenty of manual labor folks that aren’t well read that can fix things, make a good living and raise their family right. They learn things in the real world and have human interactions that books can never teach. I try to remember that as an “educated person.” There’s people with less formal education that know things I dont.

Last edited 1 year ago by T Bone
N Satori
N Satori
1 year ago

Cards on the table: I’ve never been interested in the cult of Irvine Welsh and his Trainspotting novel or flm. This extended rant has all the shallow insight of an angry bar-room-bore revolutionary well into his drinks. Just as with the rantings of boozed up pub demagogue I found myself looking for the exit.
But I made the effort to read on to the end where this gem can be found:

f**k that. Pick up a book instead. Let’s get educated. The smarter we are, the less easy it is for the unenlightened greed junkies to f**k things up for us.

which could so easily be the desperate battle cry of keyboard warriors and keyboard sleuthers accross the worldwide web.

Simon Curran
Simon Curran
1 year ago

This article is fairly crap to be honest. More like a drunken rant down the pub (with the course language thrown in) than an attempt at finding the answers. The authors generation are part of our current predicament. The 60’s saw that generation wage a total attack, a revolution on tradition, religion and rules. They destroyed the place. Tore down everything in an orgy of sex, violence, drugs, anarchy without replacing it with anything better. The nation state, the family, communities etc all destroyed in this orgy of revolution. Now we have their spawn. The woke generation, with an almost religious zeal, trying to implement some undemocratic totalitarian left wing “fascism”. The laws have been changed over decades by lobby groups so the majority have no political or legal way to stop their march through each and every institution. Now the white working class are just being trampled over in the mess that they left. So yes, if you’re going to start a revolution against the whole of tradition then don’t complain when you stand in the ruins!

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Curran

But the white working class aren’t responsible for that mess. It was the Left wing (supposedly) educated middle class.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Curran

Welsh’s generation was the 90s not the 60s.

The 60s was a reaction to the world that tore itself apart with two cataclysms. Some historical perspective, please, rather than hand-wrought moralising.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Curran

But the white working class aren’t responsible for that mess. It was the Left wing (supposedly) educated middle class.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Curran

Welsh’s generation was the 90s not the 60s.

The 60s was a reaction to the world that tore itself apart with two cataclysms. Some historical perspective, please, rather than hand-wrought moralising.

Simon Curran
Simon Curran
1 year ago

This article is fairly crap to be honest. More like a drunken rant down the pub (with the course language thrown in) than an attempt at finding the answers. The authors generation are part of our current predicament. The 60’s saw that generation wage a total attack, a revolution on tradition, religion and rules. They destroyed the place. Tore down everything in an orgy of sex, violence, drugs, anarchy without replacing it with anything better. The nation state, the family, communities etc all destroyed in this orgy of revolution. Now we have their spawn. The woke generation, with an almost religious zeal, trying to implement some undemocratic totalitarian left wing “fascism”. The laws have been changed over decades by lobby groups so the majority have no political or legal way to stop their march through each and every institution. Now the white working class are just being trampled over in the mess that they left. So yes, if you’re going to start a revolution against the whole of tradition then don’t complain when you stand in the ruins!

T Bone
T Bone
1 year ago

First of all. I have mad respect for your analytical skills and plenty of your conclusions, I just disagree with your Thesis. So its safe to assume your opinion was rationalized dialectically through the Lord-Bondsman Dialectic.  You said all the byproducts of Intersectionality are harmful and toxic…and I agree.  But is Intersectionality and ESG not the End Product of Marx and Engels blueprint?

Socialism simply doesn’t produce. It can’t. It’s a system that disincentivizes production. It’s not a bottom up program. Marx thought he inverted Hegel’s top-down Mysticism but he didn’t.  Workers don’t have the business knowledge to run factories.  The Marxist leaders knew it would require a “transition phase” of Vanguard control to assure production.  But what is the Vanguard’s incentive to make sure its workers produce if that means their necessity will just be dissolved upon worker control? None, they have no incentive.  In fact they have disincentive.  They have incentive to create new crises to justify expanding their own “temporary” power. So agitation during work hours isn’t a problem for the Vanguard. Outcomes don’t get anyone promoted in that type of system. The promotion comes from dutiful compliance to the Vanguard agenda.

Hegel was just a Hermetic. Marx combined Gnosticism with Hermeticism with the Alchemical solution being Conflict Theory and using worker activism to agitate for change to the Social Conditions toward a Workers Paradise. But the agitation incentivizes workers to become grievance based.  I know Socialists disdain Thatcher but she had a point about agitation disrupting business and public services.

In a grievance based Spoils System, it becomes not who can produce the most Steel but who can agitate the ownership class the most.  Did Marxists have a point about many in the ownership class? I’m sure…but to assume being an Owner on its own makes somebody an undeserving cheat is an overgeneralization and toxic assumption.  This idea of systemetizing and overclassifying everyone runs into unresolvable contradictions.

Taken to Marxism’s logical conclusion it synthesizes hard science with social sciences and economics with social justice and creates a completely Top Down System.  It drives people apart from each other by design.  Its inherently divisive.

We shouldn’t be pitting groups against each other period.  We should be supporting a Merit Based Order with social safety nets for the people that truly can’t care for themselves.  We’ve created an Elite Privilege and Grievance Spoils System not because of Capitalism or the vague “Neoliberalism” but because we’re too busy trying to “perfect society” that we’re misidentifying the actual root cause of our problems.  The root cause is that we fight just to fight. We’re not fighting for justice. We’re fighting each other and a chaotic destabilized system means less economic production creating a system that favors those that already have.

We need to stop and be appreciative for what we do have.  But this Gnostic Nihilism basically tells everyone that they’re trapped in a prison of Being.  So you’re going to be anxious and miserable because everything is made to feel like an existential crisis.It’s cynical at all times and ends up doing the exact thing the Marxist dialectic tries not to do.

This idea of transforming the Species into a new type of man is doomed to fail spectacularly. I don’t see how anybody can look at the French Revolution and say, let’s recreate the conditions of 1790’s Paris…but Marx rationalized it as liberating. The contradictions of Marxist existentialism are endless.  Its a rabbit hole to nowhere but dread and misery.  It doesn’t have to be. What we’re seeing now is a lot of things, but its not the result of laissez-faire Capitalism.

Regardless of my criticism, the analytics here are impressive. It was a thought-provoking piece.

Last edited 1 year ago by T Bone
T Bone
T Bone
1 year ago

First of all. I have mad respect for your analytical skills and plenty of your conclusions, I just disagree with your Thesis. So its safe to assume your opinion was rationalized dialectically through the Lord-Bondsman Dialectic.  You said all the byproducts of Intersectionality are harmful and toxic…and I agree.  But is Intersectionality and ESG not the End Product of Marx and Engels blueprint?

Socialism simply doesn’t produce. It can’t. It’s a system that disincentivizes production. It’s not a bottom up program. Marx thought he inverted Hegel’s top-down Mysticism but he didn’t.  Workers don’t have the business knowledge to run factories.  The Marxist leaders knew it would require a “transition phase” of Vanguard control to assure production.  But what is the Vanguard’s incentive to make sure its workers produce if that means their necessity will just be dissolved upon worker control? None, they have no incentive.  In fact they have disincentive.  They have incentive to create new crises to justify expanding their own “temporary” power. So agitation during work hours isn’t a problem for the Vanguard. Outcomes don’t get anyone promoted in that type of system. The promotion comes from dutiful compliance to the Vanguard agenda.

Hegel was just a Hermetic. Marx combined Gnosticism with Hermeticism with the Alchemical solution being Conflict Theory and using worker activism to agitate for change to the Social Conditions toward a Workers Paradise. But the agitation incentivizes workers to become grievance based.  I know Socialists disdain Thatcher but she had a point about agitation disrupting business and public services.

In a grievance based Spoils System, it becomes not who can produce the most Steel but who can agitate the ownership class the most.  Did Marxists have a point about many in the ownership class? I’m sure…but to assume being an Owner on its own makes somebody an undeserving cheat is an overgeneralization and toxic assumption.  This idea of systemetizing and overclassifying everyone runs into unresolvable contradictions.

Taken to Marxism’s logical conclusion it synthesizes hard science with social sciences and economics with social justice and creates a completely Top Down System.  It drives people apart from each other by design.  Its inherently divisive.

We shouldn’t be pitting groups against each other period.  We should be supporting a Merit Based Order with social safety nets for the people that truly can’t care for themselves.  We’ve created an Elite Privilege and Grievance Spoils System not because of Capitalism or the vague “Neoliberalism” but because we’re too busy trying to “perfect society” that we’re misidentifying the actual root cause of our problems.  The root cause is that we fight just to fight. We’re not fighting for justice. We’re fighting each other and a chaotic destabilized system means less economic production creating a system that favors those that already have.

We need to stop and be appreciative for what we do have.  But this Gnostic Nihilism basically tells everyone that they’re trapped in a prison of Being.  So you’re going to be anxious and miserable because everything is made to feel like an existential crisis.It’s cynical at all times and ends up doing the exact thing the Marxist dialectic tries not to do.

This idea of transforming the Species into a new type of man is doomed to fail spectacularly. I don’t see how anybody can look at the French Revolution and say, let’s recreate the conditions of 1790’s Paris…but Marx rationalized it as liberating. The contradictions of Marxist existentialism are endless.  Its a rabbit hole to nowhere but dread and misery.  It doesn’t have to be. What we’re seeing now is a lot of things, but its not the result of laissez-faire Capitalism.

Regardless of my criticism, the analytics here are impressive. It was a thought-provoking piece.

Last edited 1 year ago by T Bone
Dumetrius
Dumetrius
1 year ago

As long ago as 2012 the self-appointed representatives of the T part of the LGBT on places like Reddit or Tumblr were urging that gay men be ‘thrown under the bus. It’s their turn down there.’ Their words.
So gay working class men aren’t included.
Remember, the people that want to exclude them aren’t exactly sane enough to distinguish males by class. You’re out, just by being male and gay.

They didn’t really stop to worry about race either, tho if you’re non-white, male and gay, you probably ought to stay silent if you want to stay inside their tent.

The fact that many of the people doing the excluding used to be well-off white males themselves, isn’t lost on anyone, tho it’s not polite to say it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Dumetrius
Dumetrius
Dumetrius
1 year ago

As long ago as 2012 the self-appointed representatives of the T part of the LGBT on places like Reddit or Tumblr were urging that gay men be ‘thrown under the bus. It’s their turn down there.’ Their words.
So gay working class men aren’t included.
Remember, the people that want to exclude them aren’t exactly sane enough to distinguish males by class. You’re out, just by being male and gay.

They didn’t really stop to worry about race either, tho if you’re non-white, male and gay, you probably ought to stay silent if you want to stay inside their tent.

The fact that many of the people doing the excluding used to be well-off white males themselves, isn’t lost on anyone, tho it’s not polite to say it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Dumetrius
John Tumilty
John Tumilty
1 year ago

You really will not get this unless you are working class.

There’s going to be a lot on here who will hate it because of that.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

That’s probably true. But do you think Welsh can speak for his entire demographic or class?
(For the unsolicited record: I consider my overall background to be upper-lower middle class)

John Tumilty
John Tumilty
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

No I do not. I do not think he wants to speak for his entire class, but maybe he does.

For my part, it’s nice to hear from a working class man about working class issues in working class language.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

Fair enough.

CHARLES WELLS
CHARLES WELLS
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

I agree. It would seem that some of the commentators would be in favour of this magazine employing a sensitivity reader. So many ad hominem attacks on the author and pompous pronouncements on the language he uses. Some concede somewhat sneeringly that Welsh makes some relevant points, as if they have discovered something of value in a skip. There is more that suggestion here of the white working class males needing to stay in their lane and if they do have something to say in an ‘elite’ publication, then to please refrain from drawing too much attention to class differences.

Septima Williams
Septima Williams
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

This is absolutely not working class language! Where do you get the idea that the working class speak in profanities? Some on here seem to have a very low and patronising view of working class people.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago

Some of the working class people I have known over my lifetime have brought up very well mannered children who spoke English properly. They realise that those things are important to get on in life.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Exactly.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Exactly.

Gordon Buckman
Gordon Buckman
1 year ago

The working class speak in nothing but profanities! Especially a group of blokes actually at work.
In my part of Yorkshire anyway…

John Tumilty
John Tumilty
1 year ago

He does not speak in profanities, he uses a few swear words. I am working class and we swear a bit. Is that okay?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

I’m not sure what class I am but I do like to swear.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

I’m not sure what class I am but I do like to swear.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago

Some of the working class people I have known over my lifetime have brought up very well mannered children who spoke English properly. They realise that those things are important to get on in life.

Gordon Buckman
Gordon Buckman
1 year ago

The working class speak in nothing but profanities! Especially a group of blokes actually at work.
In my part of Yorkshire anyway…

John Tumilty
John Tumilty
1 year ago

He does not speak in profanities, he uses a few swear words. I am working class and we swear a bit. Is that okay?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

“Working class language”? How many working class people would be able to understand what the f.ck Welsh is talking about.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Indeed. And does he know?

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I think you might be surprised at the number.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Indeed. And does he know?

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I think you might be surprised at the number.

James DeBesse
James DeBesse
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

Carpenter here. No one of my colleagues uses that many expletives. Those words are saved to emphasize a point. Overused they just make a conversation a stream of blather

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  James DeBesse

Depends on the crew in my experience, but I agree it’s not some fundamental part of being working class or a tradesman.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  James DeBesse

Depends on the crew in my experience, but I agree it’s not some fundamental part of being working class or a tradesman.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

This is not remotely working class language, it’s middle class language dressed up to kind of look like it might be working class to those with little experience of the working class world.

Sure, there’s a decent amount of swearing around here at times, but plenty of little old ladies and old gentleman who might be working class, but still have manners.

The vocabulary used in this piece is far too extensive for anything like genuine conversations that happen on the streets around here, nobody really gives a damn about all these politically charged concepts like bourgeois, patriarchy, capitalism, etc. You also won’t find most wanting to get educated either, because they don’t want kids starting out in life saddled with more than £50-60k of debt when they could instead be earning themselves a wage equivalent to what most university leavers will be getting given how devalued most degrees are in the real world.

Whilst there are some beautiful literary lines in this article, it overall reads like the thoughts of a fairly run of the mill middle aged bloke, who in spite of a lifetime of immersion in middle class living thinks he’s better qualified to talk for working class people than those who remain working class for life because he vaguely recalls what it was like being working class in the year dot.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Your comment deserves many upvotes.

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

He’s Irvine ‘Trainspotting’ Welsh. Swearing is his badge of working class druggie honour, maaaan. It’s what he’s known for. Actually a smart man, when he’s not talking warmed-over drivel.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Your comment deserves many upvotes.

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

He’s Irvine ‘Trainspotting’ Welsh. Swearing is his badge of working class druggie honour, maaaan. It’s what he’s known for. Actually a smart man, when he’s not talking warmed-over drivel.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

Fair enough.

CHARLES WELLS
CHARLES WELLS
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

I agree. It would seem that some of the commentators would be in favour of this magazine employing a sensitivity reader. So many ad hominem attacks on the author and pompous pronouncements on the language he uses. Some concede somewhat sneeringly that Welsh makes some relevant points, as if they have discovered something of value in a skip. There is more that suggestion here of the white working class males needing to stay in their lane and if they do have something to say in an ‘elite’ publication, then to please refrain from drawing too much attention to class differences.

Septima Williams
Septima Williams
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

This is absolutely not working class language! Where do you get the idea that the working class speak in profanities? Some on here seem to have a very low and patronising view of working class people.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

“Working class language”? How many working class people would be able to understand what the f.ck Welsh is talking about.

James DeBesse
James DeBesse
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

Carpenter here. No one of my colleagues uses that many expletives. Those words are saved to emphasize a point. Overused they just make a conversation a stream of blather

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

This is not remotely working class language, it’s middle class language dressed up to kind of look like it might be working class to those with little experience of the working class world.

Sure, there’s a decent amount of swearing around here at times, but plenty of little old ladies and old gentleman who might be working class, but still have manners.

The vocabulary used in this piece is far too extensive for anything like genuine conversations that happen on the streets around here, nobody really gives a damn about all these politically charged concepts like bourgeois, patriarchy, capitalism, etc. You also won’t find most wanting to get educated either, because they don’t want kids starting out in life saddled with more than £50-60k of debt when they could instead be earning themselves a wage equivalent to what most university leavers will be getting given how devalued most degrees are in the real world.

Whilst there are some beautiful literary lines in this article, it overall reads like the thoughts of a fairly run of the mill middle aged bloke, who in spite of a lifetime of immersion in middle class living thinks he’s better qualified to talk for working class people than those who remain working class for life because he vaguely recalls what it was like being working class in the year dot.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Upper-lower middle class ?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Aye. Or “upper lower-middle-class”: some money and property (in the extended family), no elite professionals or major wealth; some contractors (like my dad and brother), farmers (my grandfather and uncle), salesmen, and middle-managers, mostly with high school only or bachelors degrees from not-too-selective schools (with a few exceptions, like Berkeley and a graduate degree or two–no doctorates). The label is intended as kind of a joke, but I think it’s pretty accurate too. How ’bout you if I might ask?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Stoater D

Aye. Or “upper lower-middle-class”: some money and property (in the extended family), no elite professionals or major wealth; some contractors (like my dad and brother), farmers (my grandfather and uncle), salesmen, and middle-managers, mostly with high school only or bachelors degrees from not-too-selective schools (with a few exceptions, like Berkeley and a graduate degree or two–no doctorates). The label is intended as kind of a joke, but I think it’s pretty accurate too. How ’bout you if I might ask?

John Tumilty
John Tumilty
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

No I do not. I do not think he wants to speak for his entire class, but maybe he does.

For my part, it’s nice to hear from a working class man about working class issues in working class language.

Stoater D
Stoater D
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Upper-lower middle class ?

Nikki Hayes
Nikki Hayes
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

I am working class, born and bred, and I object to his language. Being working class is NOT characterised by foul language, this man actually showed his complete lack of understanding of the working class and our values.

Karl Juhnke
Karl Juhnke
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

Of course. It is easy to refuse to even try and put oneself in another’s shoes. The West is colonising itself. The Third Way.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

That’s probably true. But do you think Welsh can speak for his entire demographic or class?
(For the unsolicited record: I consider my overall background to be upper-lower middle class)

Nikki Hayes
Nikki Hayes
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

I am working class, born and bred, and I object to his language. Being working class is NOT characterised by foul language, this man actually showed his complete lack of understanding of the working class and our values.

Karl Juhnke
Karl Juhnke
1 year ago
Reply to  John Tumilty

Of course. It is easy to refuse to even try and put oneself in another’s shoes. The West is colonising itself. The Third Way.

John Tumilty
John Tumilty
1 year ago

You really will not get this unless you are working class.

There’s going to be a lot on here who will hate it because of that.

chris sullivan
chris sullivan
1 year ago

Excellent thanks !! BUT the boys need to realize that they wont escape the system except by actually reading ! – and whereas us old b8ggers probably read a lot more – the younger gen dont . Even the ‘news’ is coming at us in short sound bits cos no one can read quickly anymore……so if they are too lazy or unmotivated to figure out the system that is screwing them they WILL end up cannon fodder or on the dole and thereby marginalized – so I dunno if there IS an answer to their plight…….

Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs
1 year ago
Reply to  chris sullivan

“Look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets.

You know what I’ve noticed?

Nobody panics when things go “according to plan.” Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it’s all “part of the plan”.

But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds.

Introduce a little anarchy.

Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.

[become] an agent of chaos.

Oh, and you know the thing about chaos?

It’s fair!“

Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

Jibberish

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Guy Pigache

He’s quoting the Joker from the Batman film The Dark Knight. It’s actually a great scene, and a great performance, but bears zero relevance here. Chuckling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylwMWpbv5Fk

Clownlard Jesus
Clownlard Jesus
1 year ago
Reply to  Guy Pigache

He’s quoting the Joker from the Batman film The Dark Knight. It’s actually a great scene, and a great performance, but bears zero relevance here. Chuckling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylwMWpbv5Fk

Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

Jibberish

Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs
1 year ago
Reply to  chris sullivan

“Look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets.

You know what I’ve noticed?

Nobody panics when things go “according to plan.” Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it’s all “part of the plan”.

But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds.

Introduce a little anarchy.

Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.

[become] an agent of chaos.

Oh, and you know the thing about chaos?

It’s fair!“

chris sullivan
chris sullivan
1 year ago

Excellent thanks !! BUT the boys need to realize that they wont escape the system except by actually reading ! – and whereas us old b8ggers probably read a lot more – the younger gen dont . Even the ‘news’ is coming at us in short sound bits cos no one can read quickly anymore……so if they are too lazy or unmotivated to figure out the system that is screwing them they WILL end up cannon fodder or on the dole and thereby marginalized – so I dunno if there IS an answer to their plight…….

ALLEN MORRIS-YATES
ALLEN MORRIS-YATES
1 year ago

Well that was a most enjoyable Saturday morning read down here in South Australia. Lots of things to agree with and plenty of other things to disagree with, just what I needed to think on during the hour long drive to Adelaide later this morning. Thanks.

ALLEN MORRIS-YATES
ALLEN MORRIS-YATES
1 year ago