X Close

Why doesn’t Britain regret lockdown? Three years on, voters remain in favour

The mea culpas will never arrive (ANDY BUCHANAN/AFP via Getty Images)

The mea culpas will never arrive (ANDY BUCHANAN/AFP via Getty Images)


March 23, 2023   5 mins

“In retrospect, lockdowns were a mistake.”

If you agree with the above statement, you are, I’m afraid, still in the minority. Three years to the day since Britain brought in its first nationwide lockdown, the latest wave of UnHerd Britain polling shows that only 27% of voters agree that lockdowns were a mistake, while 54% disagree and 19% are not sure. The strength of feeling also tilts in the other direction: fully 30% of people strongly disagree with the statement, while only 12% strongly agree.

Having estimated results for all 632 constituencies in Britain, our partners Focaldata could not find a single seat where the “lockdown sceptics” outnumber the “pro-lockdowners.” Chorley in Lancashire and Leeds Central are the closest thing to sceptical enclaves (here, supporters of lockdowns outnumber opponents by a single percentage point) but it is still a minority position. If “defenders of lockdown” were a political party,  it would sweep the nation in a landslide.

To those of us at the coalface of interrogating the wisdom of lockdowns for the past three years, it is a bitter pill to swallow. As someone who counts himself among the 12% of voters who strongly agree with the statement, allow me to tell you what life is like inside this embattled minority.

To the majority of people who believe lockdowns were right and necessary, the Covid era was no doubt distressing, but it need not have been cause to re-order their perception of the world. Faced with a new and frightening disease, difficult decisions were taken by the people in charge but we came together and got through it; mistakes were made, but overall we did what we needed to do.

For the dissenting minority, the past three years have been very different. We have had to grapple with the possibility that, through panic and philosophical confusion, our governing class contrived to make a bad situation much worse. Imagine living with the sense that the manifold evils of the lockdowns that we all now know — ripping up centuries-old traditions of freedom, interrupting a generation’s education, hastening the decline into decrepitude for millions of older people, destroying businesses and our health service, dividing families, saddling our economies with debt, fostering fear and alienation, attacking all the best things in life — needn’t have happened for anything like so long, if at all?

To those who place emphasis on good quality evidence, it has been particularly exasperating. In the early days of 2020, we had only intuitions — there was no real data as to whether lockdowns worked, as they had never been tried in this way. As millions tuned in to our in-depth interviews on UnHerdTV with leading scientists, we made sure to hear arguments in favour of lockdowns as well as against. Devi Sridhar made the case for Zero Covid; Susan Michie said we should be locking down even harder; Neil Ferguson (whose last-ever tweet was a link to his UnHerd interview) told me how exciting it was that the world was attempting to stop a highly infectious disease in its tracks.

There were periods when the evidence looked like it was going the other way, such as Sweden’s worse-than-expected second wave in winter 2020-21. Professor Fredrik Elgh dramatically predicted disaster for that country, which ultimately didn’t transpire — but he had me worried.

In the past year, however, we have for the first time been able to look at the Covid data in the round. Many of the countries which appeared to be doing “well” in terms of low levels of infections and deaths caught up in the second year — Norway ended up much closer to Sweden, while countries such as Hungary, which were initially praised for strong early lockdowns, have ended up with some of the worst death tolls in the world. Due to the peculiarly competitive nature of the lockdowns, the results were neatly tracked, allowing clear comparison between countries and regions. While we spent the first year arguing about deaths “with” Covid as opposed to deaths “from” Covid, all sides in this discussion have now settled on overall “excess deaths” as the fairest measure of success or failure: in other words, overall, how many more people died in a particular place than you would normally expect?

My view on these results is quite simple: in order to justify a policy as monumental as shutting down all of society for the first time in history, the de minimis outcome must be a certainty that fewer people died because of it. Lockdown was not one “lever” among many: it was the nuclear option. The onus must be on those who promoted lockdowns to produce a table showing a clear correlation between the places that enacted mandatory shutdowns and their overall outcome in terms of excess deaths. But there is no such table; there is no positive correlation. Three years after, there is no non-theoretical evidence that lockdowns were necessary to save lives. This is not an ambiguous outcome; it is what failure looks like.

If anything, the correlation now looks like it goes the other way. The refusal of Sweden to bring in a lockdown, and the neighbouring Scandinavian countries’ shorter and less interventionist lockdowns and swifter return to normality, provide a powerful control to the international experiment. Three years on, these countries are at the bottom of the European excess deaths league table, and depending on which method you choose, Sweden is either at or very near the very bottom of the list. So the countries that interfered the least with the delicately balanced ecosystem of their societies caused the least damage; and the only European country to eschew mandatory lockdowns altogether ended up with the smallest increase in loss of life. It’s a fatal datapoint for the argument that lockdowns were the only option.

So why, three years on, do most people not share this conclusion? Partly because most people haven’t seen the evidence. Nor will they. The media and political establishment were so encouraging of lockdowns at the time that their only critique was that they weren’t hard enough. They are hardly going to acknowledge such a grave mistake now. Nor do I expect the inquiry to ask the right questions: obfuscation and distraction will continue and mea culpas will never arrive.

But it can’t all be put down to the media. Over that strange period, we were reminded of something important about human nature: when frightened, people will choose security over freedom. Endless opinion polls confirmed it, and politicians acted upon it. Tellingly, those constituencies most in favour of lockdowns in our polling are leafy and affluent — New Forest West, Bexhill, Henley, The Cotswolds. Perhaps some people even enjoyed it.

Meanwhile, the dissenting minority is not going anywhere. This new class of citizen is now a feature of every Western society: deeply distrustful of authority, sceptical of the “narrative”, hungry for alternative explanations, inured to being demonised and laughed at. The dissident class skews young (it includes 39% of 25-34 year olds) and clusters around poorer inner-city neighbourhoods; it heads to alternative media channels for information. Its number was greatly increased over the lockdown era as those people lost faith in the way the world is run. They will continue to make their presence felt in the years to come.

As for me, the past three years have changed how I view the world. I feel no anger, simply a wariness: an increased sense of how fragile our liberal way of life is, how precarious its institutions and principles, and how good people, including those I greatly admire, are capable of astonishing misjudgements given the right atmosphere of fear and moral panic. In particular those years revealed the dark side of supposedly enlightened secular rationalism — how, if freed from its moorings, it can tend towards a crudely mechanistic world in which inhuman decisions are justified to achieve dubious measurable targets.

I hope there is no “next time”, and that the political class will never again think nationwide lockdowns are a proper policy option in a liberal democracy. But if they do, I suspect the opposition, while still perhaps a minority, will be better organised.


Freddie Sayers is the Editor-in-Chief & CEO of UnHerd. He was previously Editor-in-Chief of YouGov, and founder of PoliticsHome.

freddiesayers

Join the discussion


Join like minded readers that support our journalism by becoming a paid subscriber


To join the discussion in the comments, become a paid subscriber.

Join like minded readers that support our journalism, read unlimited articles and enjoy other subscriber-only benefits.

Subscribe
Subscribe
Notify of
guest

476 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Kevin Hamann
Kevin Hamann
1 year ago

Sadly it is the same in Canada. Unherd is the only online platform i pay for. Keep fighting the good fight Freddie.

Jim R
Jim R
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

Same here – the only good thing to come out of this madness for me was discovering unherd and lockdown sceptics (and Brett Weinstein etc). Canada is a hopeless wasteland of timid conformity and i might have lost my mind without access to other viewpoints. Soon Trudeau will fully implement his censorship regime and when I type “unherd” into my browser i will get redirected to the CBC. I will miss you all.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

It is very simple
. a lot of Brits did not experience the financial impact of lockdowns during the lockdown and don’t seem to have the wherewithal to link things up now. Maybe also didn’t have the imagination and curiosity and thirst for knowledge to see the societal impacts and other harms? Also imo the population is too invested in the nanny state. Show me the people who lost their livelihoods who supported this travesty.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lesley van Reenen
Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago

There was also a lot of mocking of people who were against lockdowns, those who have since been vindicated. Many people do not like to admit they were so wrong when they were so vocal about being right.
Everything that we have known for centuries about building resistance and immunity was said to be wrong and those who wanted to cling to those practises were mocked as tin foil hat wearing. Everything about lockdown and and the excessive use of sanitiser undermined resistance and immunity and yet it was lorded as the most honourable of practises!
If you were opposed to lockdowns and masks then you were a granny killer! If you pointed out the negative impact on the economy then you were a sociopath putting wealth before health. Some people were under the hysterical delusion that lockdowns, masks and social distancing could stop people from dying altogether!
It was utter nonsense from day one.

tom j
tom j
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Lindsay you are right, though I’d say those first few weeks we didn’t know what we were dealing with – in fact in the UK people ‘locked down’ before the government asked them to. But by summer 2020 we knew enough, people were not scared of the disease but we ceded control to the most anxious and bureaucratic forces in the country.

Martin Adams
Martin Adams
1 year ago
Reply to  tom j

by summer 2020 we knew enough, people were not scared of the disease but we ceded control to the most anxious and bureaucratic forces in the country.

Well said. It reminds me of Alexis de Tocqueville who nearly 200 years ago, in Democracy in America, warned about the growth of bureaucracy in democratic countries, which would lead to what he called “soft despotism”. It would be, in many respects, worse than the despotism of absolute monarchy because you had no head to cut off, and people would be seduced by it into believing it was inherently beneficial.
Of course, one can always make the comparison with countries such as China, where tyrannical rule produced lockdowns that would be far worse than those in Europe. But the crucial point is that, as Freddie’s article points out, the ostensibly democratic background produces the delusion that government decisions are inevitably made in the best interests of the people.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  tom j

In Nov 2019 when I had covid, my only lockdown was to NOT visit my elderly relatives in care-homes. No Granny’s died thanks to that – at least they didn’t show up in ANY way in my family or associated friends NOR did they show up in any mortality figures. It would be interesting to investigate further why so many countries all had their mortality spike around the same time in 2020 AND what that coincided with? (Emptying hospitals into care homes and intubation of victims perhaps?)

Dominic English
Dominic English
1 year ago
Reply to  tom j

Yes Tom. But by then the voters, egged on by a shrill, hysterical media were already whipped into a sort of panic. No UK government could have abandoned the lockdown policy at that point. They would have been hounded out of office. Absolutely tragic. And the hangover is voters seem desperate for ever more government intervention in their lives. https://open.substack.com/pub/lowstatus/p/the-government-is-rubbish-more-please?r=evzeq&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Martin Adams
Martin Adams
1 year ago
Reply to  tom j

by summer 2020 we knew enough, people were not scared of the disease but we ceded control to the most anxious and bureaucratic forces in the country.

Well said. It reminds me of Alexis de Tocqueville who nearly 200 years ago, in Democracy in America, warned about the growth of bureaucracy in democratic countries, which would lead to what he called “soft despotism”. It would be, in many respects, worse than the despotism of absolute monarchy because you had no head to cut off, and people would be seduced by it into believing it was inherently beneficial.
Of course, one can always make the comparison with countries such as China, where tyrannical rule produced lockdowns that would be far worse than those in Europe. But the crucial point is that, as Freddie’s article points out, the ostensibly democratic background produces the delusion that government decisions are inevitably made in the best interests of the people.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  tom j

In Nov 2019 when I had covid, my only lockdown was to NOT visit my elderly relatives in care-homes. No Granny’s died thanks to that – at least they didn’t show up in ANY way in my family or associated friends NOR did they show up in any mortality figures. It would be interesting to investigate further why so many countries all had their mortality spike around the same time in 2020 AND what that coincided with? (Emptying hospitals into care homes and intubation of victims perhaps?)

Dominic English
Dominic English
1 year ago
Reply to  tom j

Yes Tom. But by then the voters, egged on by a shrill, hysterical media were already whipped into a sort of panic. No UK government could have abandoned the lockdown policy at that point. They would have been hounded out of office. Absolutely tragic. And the hangover is voters seem desperate for ever more government intervention in their lives. https://open.substack.com/pub/lowstatus/p/the-government-is-rubbish-more-please?r=evzeq&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Heidi Mahon
Heidi Mahon
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Tell me about it and don’t even get me started on the “my elderly parents brigade “a very distinct ,now very vocal and odd section of society ,many themselves ageing who cannot comprehend losing their beloved parents whatever the cost to anyone else

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Heidi Mahon

I’m always surprised at how Remainers wanted lockdown to keep us old Gammon alive, having earlier wanted us all dead so they can reverse Brexit.
There’s a Covid was leaked conspiracy theory that hasn’t yet surfaced 🙂

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Heidi Mahon

I’m always surprised at how Remainers wanted lockdown to keep us old Gammon alive, having earlier wanted us all dead so they can reverse Brexit.
There’s a Covid was leaked conspiracy theory that hasn’t yet surfaced 🙂

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

But given the opportunity would you have hung out in crowded, enclosed spaces not wearing a mask?

John Thorogood
John Thorogood
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes!

Mary Malde
Mary Malde
1 year ago
Reply to  John Thorogood

Yes. I had been frequenting the supposedly most infected areas of London, namely Kensington & Chelsea and Barnet (the hotspots) for months. Going on packed trains and into packed rooms. We now know a virus was present from September 2019 at least. Still to this day I’ve not had covid and not been ill and am not vaccinated and am supposedly in the “at risk’ category by age. Wore a mask only twice to avoid a violent attack on my person even though I would have floored them easily had they proceeded. I wore it for my son and husband’s sake as they are less able to handle confrontation than myself. Couldn’t handle being called a granny killer.
If the lockdown luvvies knew the truth behind the development of the pharmaceuticals and the reaction to the “pandemic” their worlds would be shattered. Many just can’t handle that truth. My hope is that over time they will learn to deal with the truth as it fully emerges (it is emerging, but very slowly) and finally accept it. I certainly know they will not like it and their inner peace will be taken from them.
They ought to start by asking themselves some very simply, basic questions like, why were known to be safe and effective respiratory therapeutics withdrawn from everyone? Why did one have to be close to death before one could get any medicine/treatment and then not an evidence based treatment but an experimental treatment?
N.B. I had proper flu in my twenties. I have had pneumonia once in my forties. I caught a very nasty respiratory infection whilst in Nepal on my way to Bhutan recently. I didn’t take any meds for any of those episodes. Just lemon, ginger and lots of fluids and lem sips and rest which my body demanded ( I couldn’t move if I wanted to).
I never knew the name of the virus and didn’t care to know.
One day I’ll have another infection, but I will not care to know the name of the virus then either. I’ll just get on with getting better. If I ever need meds or treatment and it is denied to me and I’m told not to bother anyone until my face goes blue because I can’t breath, as happened in the “pandemic”, I will be very suspicious of the authorities ethics and motives. Maybe I’ll be in my eighties when the next virus attacks me, but at least I know all about Midazolam now and will be alert to the euthanasia enthusiasts amongst lurking amongst us. In the meantime I’ll take my vit C, D and zinc and live a healthy life even if it is a shattered one.

Mary Malde
Mary Malde
1 year ago
Reply to  John Thorogood

Yes. I had been frequenting the supposedly most infected areas of London, namely Kensington & Chelsea and Barnet (the hotspots) for months. Going on packed trains and into packed rooms. We now know a virus was present from September 2019 at least. Still to this day I’ve not had covid and not been ill and am not vaccinated and am supposedly in the “at risk’ category by age. Wore a mask only twice to avoid a violent attack on my person even though I would have floored them easily had they proceeded. I wore it for my son and husband’s sake as they are less able to handle confrontation than myself. Couldn’t handle being called a granny killer.
If the lockdown luvvies knew the truth behind the development of the pharmaceuticals and the reaction to the “pandemic” their worlds would be shattered. Many just can’t handle that truth. My hope is that over time they will learn to deal with the truth as it fully emerges (it is emerging, but very slowly) and finally accept it. I certainly know they will not like it and their inner peace will be taken from them.
They ought to start by asking themselves some very simply, basic questions like, why were known to be safe and effective respiratory therapeutics withdrawn from everyone? Why did one have to be close to death before one could get any medicine/treatment and then not an evidence based treatment but an experimental treatment?
N.B. I had proper flu in my twenties. I have had pneumonia once in my forties. I caught a very nasty respiratory infection whilst in Nepal on my way to Bhutan recently. I didn’t take any meds for any of those episodes. Just lemon, ginger and lots of fluids and lem sips and rest which my body demanded ( I couldn’t move if I wanted to).
I never knew the name of the virus and didn’t care to know.
One day I’ll have another infection, but I will not care to know the name of the virus then either. I’ll just get on with getting better. If I ever need meds or treatment and it is denied to me and I’m told not to bother anyone until my face goes blue because I can’t breath, as happened in the “pandemic”, I will be very suspicious of the authorities ethics and motives. Maybe I’ll be in my eighties when the next virus attacks me, but at least I know all about Midazolam now and will be alert to the euthanasia enthusiasts amongst lurking amongst us. In the meantime I’ll take my vit C, D and zinc and live a healthy life even if it is a shattered one.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I did, but then I was immune having had it in Nov 2019, in fact having it seems to have done wonders for my immune system

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes

Dominic English
Dominic English
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Of course. What were masks doing? Nothing. They clearly did not work. If there was the slightest evidence they did, it would have been shoved down our throat at every opportunity. Not a single scary poster, nothing. Pure theatre.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I would go as far to add that many are more fearful of losing their home and livelihood to an economic crash caused by lockdown than a form of flu with a 98% survival rate

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I never do that anyway so I wouldn’t .

John Thorogood
John Thorogood
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes!

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I did, but then I was immune having had it in Nov 2019, in fact having it seems to have done wonders for my immune system

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes

Dominic English
Dominic English
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Of course. What were masks doing? Nothing. They clearly did not work. If there was the slightest evidence they did, it would have been shoved down our throat at every opportunity. Not a single scary poster, nothing. Pure theatre.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I would go as far to add that many are more fearful of losing their home and livelihood to an economic crash caused by lockdown than a form of flu with a 98% survival rate

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I never do that anyway so I wouldn’t .

tom j
tom j
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Lindsay you are right, though I’d say those first few weeks we didn’t know what we were dealing with – in fact in the UK people ‘locked down’ before the government asked them to. But by summer 2020 we knew enough, people were not scared of the disease but we ceded control to the most anxious and bureaucratic forces in the country.

Heidi Mahon
Heidi Mahon
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Tell me about it and don’t even get me started on the “my elderly parents brigade “a very distinct ,now very vocal and odd section of society ,many themselves ageing who cannot comprehend losing their beloved parents whatever the cost to anyone else

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

But given the opportunity would you have hung out in crowded, enclosed spaces not wearing a mask?

R Ec
R Ec
1 year ago

…but they are paying for it now: the Cost of Lockdown Crisis (MSM call it the C of Living C) but inflation is because of the cost of lockdown. As you say “a lot of Brits did not experience the financial impact of lockdowns during the lockdown” but now they are; it’s the Cost of Lockdown Crisis (I correct everyone I hear say the mainstream label ‘cost of living crisis’; do the same!

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

Had this discussion with a friend in the UK in about April 2020. I said lockdowns would ruin economies
 she said you will just build it again! Build away.

Adam Bacon
Adam Bacon
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

Absolutely! I do the same. It seems to be an integral part of the wilful blindness/denial process for those who followed The Narrative, to completely blank the obvious consequences, of deciding to take the ‘nuclear’ option and shut our economies and societies down.

Doug Pingel
Doug Pingel
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

Intend ‘borrowing’ that and speaking with a loud voice on the bus into town tomorrow and any other morning. Hope you don’t mind.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

I won’t totally disagree, BUT a crisis was coming anyway and ironically it wasn’t the lockdown inflation that kick-started it, it was Net Zero gas inflation – partly due to lockdown consequences I admit, BUT the main factor was that renewables failed to deliver. Hydro and Wind power in 2021 was so reduced (hydro not only in Portugal but Brazil) that a massive ‘dash for gas’ LNG occurred. Net Zero’s hammering of gas production meant not enough, prices rocketed hence all the UK companies going bust pre-Xmas 2021. It is also my contention that the Ukraine war started because of that. Putin seeing the gas prices & knowing he supplied Germany and the EU persuaded him the time was ripe to take Ukraine. Possibly why the initial push was disjointed and failed, it was rushed without sufficient planning. IF I’m right about that, then writing off Russia in that conflict is a big mistake.
https://www.rigzone.com/news/wire/brazil_needs_more_lng_amid_worst_drought_in_decades-03-jun-2021-165594-article/
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Europes-Energy-Crisis-Worsens-As-Wind-Stops-Blowing.html

Alan Bright
Alan Bright
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

In fairness, another big cause of the CLC is Putin

Rob Mcneill-wilson
Rob Mcneill-wilson
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

The Cost of Lockdown is compounded by the Cost of Futile Net Zero.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

Had this discussion with a friend in the UK in about April 2020. I said lockdowns would ruin economies
 she said you will just build it again! Build away.

Adam Bacon
Adam Bacon
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

Absolutely! I do the same. It seems to be an integral part of the wilful blindness/denial process for those who followed The Narrative, to completely blank the obvious consequences, of deciding to take the ‘nuclear’ option and shut our economies and societies down.

Doug Pingel
Doug Pingel
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

Intend ‘borrowing’ that and speaking with a loud voice on the bus into town tomorrow and any other morning. Hope you don’t mind.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

I won’t totally disagree, BUT a crisis was coming anyway and ironically it wasn’t the lockdown inflation that kick-started it, it was Net Zero gas inflation – partly due to lockdown consequences I admit, BUT the main factor was that renewables failed to deliver. Hydro and Wind power in 2021 was so reduced (hydro not only in Portugal but Brazil) that a massive ‘dash for gas’ LNG occurred. Net Zero’s hammering of gas production meant not enough, prices rocketed hence all the UK companies going bust pre-Xmas 2021. It is also my contention that the Ukraine war started because of that. Putin seeing the gas prices & knowing he supplied Germany and the EU persuaded him the time was ripe to take Ukraine. Possibly why the initial push was disjointed and failed, it was rushed without sufficient planning. IF I’m right about that, then writing off Russia in that conflict is a big mistake.
https://www.rigzone.com/news/wire/brazil_needs_more_lng_amid_worst_drought_in_decades-03-jun-2021-165594-article/
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Europes-Energy-Crisis-Worsens-As-Wind-Stops-Blowing.html

Alan Bright
Alan Bright
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

In fairness, another big cause of the CLC is Putin

Rob Mcneill-wilson
Rob Mcneill-wilson
1 year ago
Reply to  R Ec

The Cost of Lockdown is compounded by the Cost of Futile Net Zero.

Doug Pingel
Doug Pingel
1 year ago

YES, YES, YES! Too many people were paid not to work. Some (mainly unCivil Servants) are still working from home.) I am retired but for most of my working life I was a Seafarer and latterly a self-employed Trucker. There would have been no governent money for me and I know a lot of people still in those trades (if they were self-employed) were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Maybe many of those who vote for more lockdowns are those who woud benefit financially. Next pandemic we might see a tremendous fall in UNemployment as dolies game the system to get more money.

Alan Bright
Alan Bright
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug Pingel

The self-employed (and I was one) did get government money.

Alan Bright
Alan Bright
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug Pingel

The self-employed (and I was one) did get government money.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago

In my perception,just me maybe,there was a lot of identifying as “respectable” by confirming to lockdown,wearing a mask,and that queuing at the supermarket,keeping studiously to the taped distance. I just got the vibe off nice couples in my age group (boomers) that conforming willingly and eagerly identified you as an innie,but not agreeing in fact even voicing dissent while queing and wearing a mask made you an outlaw. Not clapping and agreeing you believe in Fairies meant Tinkerbelle would die.

E. L. Herndon
E. L. Herndon
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

I noticed that juvenile cliquish behavior, too. Very sad. Where absolutely required, I did wear a (totally useless, I’m sure) mask, but not without first writing on them, in bold print: PLACEBO.

E. L. Herndon
E. L. Herndon
1 year ago
Reply to  jane baker

I noticed that juvenile cliquish behavior, too. Very sad. Where absolutely required, I did wear a (totally useless, I’m sure) mask, but not without first writing on them, in bold print: PLACEBO.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago

There was also a lot of mocking of people who were against lockdowns, those who have since been vindicated. Many people do not like to admit they were so wrong when they were so vocal about being right.
Everything that we have known for centuries about building resistance and immunity was said to be wrong and those who wanted to cling to those practises were mocked as tin foil hat wearing. Everything about lockdown and and the excessive use of sanitiser undermined resistance and immunity and yet it was lorded as the most honourable of practises!
If you were opposed to lockdowns and masks then you were a granny killer! If you pointed out the negative impact on the economy then you were a sociopath putting wealth before health. Some people were under the hysterical delusion that lockdowns, masks and social distancing could stop people from dying altogether!
It was utter nonsense from day one.

R Ec
R Ec
1 year ago

…but they are paying for it now: the Cost of Lockdown Crisis (MSM call it the C of Living C) but inflation is because of the cost of lockdown. As you say “a lot of Brits did not experience the financial impact of lockdowns during the lockdown” but now they are; it’s the Cost of Lockdown Crisis (I correct everyone I hear say the mainstream label ‘cost of living crisis’; do the same!

Doug Pingel
Doug Pingel
1 year ago

YES, YES, YES! Too many people were paid not to work. Some (mainly unCivil Servants) are still working from home.) I am retired but for most of my working life I was a Seafarer and latterly a self-employed Trucker. There would have been no governent money for me and I know a lot of people still in those trades (if they were self-employed) were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Maybe many of those who vote for more lockdowns are those who woud benefit financially. Next pandemic we might see a tremendous fall in UNemployment as dolies game the system to get more money.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago

In my perception,just me maybe,there was a lot of identifying as “respectable” by confirming to lockdown,wearing a mask,and that queuing at the supermarket,keeping studiously to the taped distance. I just got the vibe off nice couples in my age group (boomers) that conforming willingly and eagerly identified you as an innie,but not agreeing in fact even voicing dissent while queing and wearing a mask made you an outlaw. Not clapping and agreeing you believe in Fairies meant Tinkerbelle would die.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

The media landscape in Canada is one of the worst in the world. We have one somewhat centrist national newspaper. Everything else is pretty well left wing.

Barry Wilson
Barry Wilson
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

and yet did I read somewhere that Canada has gained another million people, mostly immigrants, in the last year?One can only hope they believe in a democracy, civil rights, freedom of speech and a free press.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Barry Wilson

Has Rupert Murdoch left Canada untouched? Lucky you.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

He doesn’t own anything in Canada. I can’t think of one truly right-wing corporate media outlet in Canada. The National newspaper is right centre I would think. Everything else is left wing. There’s some small, independent right-wing outfits like Rebel News.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

He doesn’t own anything in Canada. I can’t think of one truly right-wing corporate media outlet in Canada. The National newspaper is right centre I would think. Everything else is left wing. There’s some small, independent right-wing outfits like Rebel News.

Colin Goodfellow
Colin Goodfellow
1 year ago
Reply to  Barry Wilson

Its not the immigrants one worries about in Canada, is the reactionaries and rent a brown shirt mob. One neo facist primier already

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Barry Wilson

Has Rupert Murdoch left Canada untouched? Lucky you.

Colin Goodfellow
Colin Goodfellow
1 year ago
Reply to  Barry Wilson

Its not the immigrants one worries about in Canada, is the reactionaries and rent a brown shirt mob. One neo facist primier already

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Heavily state sponsored too. Pravda!

Barry Wilson
Barry Wilson
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

and yet did I read somewhere that Canada has gained another million people, mostly immigrants, in the last year?One can only hope they believe in a democracy, civil rights, freedom of speech and a free press.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Heavily state sponsored too. Pravda!

Derek Bryce
Derek Bryce
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

I agree Kevin. Canada was a particularly egregious, though far from unique, case. My mother lives in British Columbia and her partner’s brain cancer was left undiagnosed then misdiagnosed for months during late winter and Spring 2020 because his GP wouldn’t see him in person ‘cos Covid’. After these months of my mother struggling alone to care for him, he was finally taken into hospital for a cat scan and given a few weeks. He ended his life using MAID around a fortnight later. All the while BC’s public health panjandrum, Dr. Bonnie Henry, was beatified by the lemming-like population. I was unable, because of the thicket of rules, regulations and hotel quarantine requirements on both sides of the Atlantic, to travel from the U.K. to support her. Even my brother in neighbouring Alberta was unable to travel across the provincial border at the height of it. Thankfully I have another brother who lives elsewhere in BC and he was able to come and take her back at least be with him, his wife and her grandchildren. I remember despairing conversations over WhatsApp video chat where mum was convinced she’d never see me in person again. I was finally able to travel to Canada to see her in August 2021 when Trudeau’s government grudgingly did away with hotel quarantine for Canadian citizens only. These f*****s in the U.K., Canadian and so many other governments have a lot to answer for. I’ll never forgive them.

Last edited 1 year ago by Derek Bryce
Peadar Laighléis
Peadar Laighléis
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

I am very sorry to hear about the circumstances in which your mother’s partner died, but it reinforces my suspicion that MAID, or its equivalent in other jurisdictions, can be convenient in covering up other people’s/institutions’ failures.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peadar Laighléis
Derek Bryce
Derek Bryce
1 year ago

He had already made his wishes clear that he wanted to use MAID if he found himself with a terminal illness before covid. I agree there has been overreach since.

Derek Bryce
Derek Bryce
1 year ago

He had already made his wishes clear that he wanted to use MAID if he found himself with a terminal illness before covid. I agree there has been overreach since.

Kevan Hudson
Kevan Hudson
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

As a resident of British Columbia I am truly sorry for what happened to your family.
Being Covid unvaccinated in BC was a small group (including me) that was largely unorganized. I only told family and a few close friends I was unvaccinated lest I be the center of attack.
I love my country but as the nanny state grows, both provincial and federal governments have increased in the number of bureaucrats by over 20% since 2015-2017, and the state continues to reduce so called harm and misinformation (Bill C-11) I might not be long in my beautiful province.
My stance during the pandemic had many labeling right wing or even a Nazi yet I have long been a radical leftist.
In summary one must remember the immortal words of American investigative journalist I.F. Stone, “All governments lie!”

Kasandra Lighthouse
Kasandra Lighthouse
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevan Hudson

I am sorry. Take care. People have a faint memory of how we checked one another which was truly nazi-like. You don’t have to tell anyone anything that might put you at discrimination. ~ X

Derek Bryce
Derek Bryce
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevan Hudson

Did you see the nativity scene somewhere on Vancouver Island where some crazed Branch-Covidians had replaced one of the three wise men with an effigy of Bonnie Henry? That gave me the dry heaves.

Kasandra Lighthouse
Kasandra Lighthouse
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevan Hudson

I am sorry. Take care. People have a faint memory of how we checked one another which was truly nazi-like. You don’t have to tell anyone anything that might put you at discrimination. ~ X

Derek Bryce
Derek Bryce
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevan Hudson

Did you see the nativity scene somewhere on Vancouver Island where some crazed Branch-Covidians had replaced one of the three wise men with an effigy of Bonnie Henry? That gave me the dry heaves.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

My heart goes out to you Derek. Awful way to treat human beings.

My wife works for an agency that supports people with disabilities – a lot of clients with Down syndrome.

Lockdowns were horrible for some of them. Any client who was working lost their job, their outings ended abruptly, their social networks were destroyed.

Some of the clients have never recovered. A couple suffered severe mental health issues and have not recovered from those.

Derek Bryce
Derek Bryce
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Just awful what happened to those people you mention, Jim. Never let anyone forget. I never will and don’t care if that alienates some people. It was evil.

Last edited 1 year ago by Derek Bryce
Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

None of this gets a lick of attention from the regime media. Sad state of affairs.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Perhaps the greatest travesty of this whole sorry episode, Jim. The Pravda-like government censorship of the media during the pandemic has morphed into self-censorship, which manifests itself in the refusal to take stock of what happened, recognise the mistakes and punish the guilty parties.
Despite Musk’s best efforts to de-censor Twitter, I fear the majority of MSM and social media are gone for good into the dark dungeon of groupthink.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Perhaps the greatest travesty of this whole sorry episode, Jim. The Pravda-like government censorship of the media during the pandemic has morphed into self-censorship, which manifests itself in the refusal to take stock of what happened, recognise the mistakes and punish the guilty parties.
Despite Musk’s best efforts to de-censor Twitter, I fear the majority of MSM and social media are gone for good into the dark dungeon of groupthink.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

None of this gets a lick of attention from the regime media. Sad state of affairs.

Derek Bryce
Derek Bryce
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Just awful what happened to those people you mention, Jim. Never let anyone forget. I never will and don’t care if that alienates some people. It was evil.

Last edited 1 year ago by Derek Bryce
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

I had to google MAID. It sounds like a reassuring choice to have available.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes, possibly the most attractive thing in Canada!

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago

It may bring you lot of death tourism: beautiful resorts in glorious locations, no questions asked, where all death related services will be provided. Quite possibly at government expense, or one of those public-private partnerships.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago

It may bring you lot of death tourism: beautiful resorts in glorious locations, no questions asked, where all death related services will be provided. Quite possibly at government expense, or one of those public-private partnerships.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes, possibly the most attractive thing in Canada!

Peadar Laighléis
Peadar Laighléis
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

I am very sorry to hear about the circumstances in which your mother’s partner died, but it reinforces my suspicion that MAID, or its equivalent in other jurisdictions, can be convenient in covering up other people’s/institutions’ failures.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peadar Laighléis
Kevan Hudson
Kevan Hudson
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

As a resident of British Columbia I am truly sorry for what happened to your family.
Being Covid unvaccinated in BC was a small group (including me) that was largely unorganized. I only told family and a few close friends I was unvaccinated lest I be the center of attack.
I love my country but as the nanny state grows, both provincial and federal governments have increased in the number of bureaucrats by over 20% since 2015-2017, and the state continues to reduce so called harm and misinformation (Bill C-11) I might not be long in my beautiful province.
My stance during the pandemic had many labeling right wing or even a Nazi yet I have long been a radical leftist.
In summary one must remember the immortal words of American investigative journalist I.F. Stone, “All governments lie!”

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

My heart goes out to you Derek. Awful way to treat human beings.

My wife works for an agency that supports people with disabilities – a lot of clients with Down syndrome.

Lockdowns were horrible for some of them. Any client who was working lost their job, their outings ended abruptly, their social networks were destroyed.

Some of the clients have never recovered. A couple suffered severe mental health issues and have not recovered from those.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Bryce

I had to google MAID. It sounds like a reassuring choice to have available.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

I can just imagine the editor’s office when this poll result came in: “Well how inconvenient, these silly people with their clear thinking and unbiased opinions – quick Freddie, give us a nice cynical piece to keep the regulars onside.”

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

“Imagine” – sounds right. I bet you imagined all those billions dying from the new black death that didn’t even leave the Diamond Princess a floating morgue.
Still, at least you didn’t claim to ‘think’. 😉

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

“Imagine” – sounds right. I bet you imagined all those billions dying from the new black death that didn’t even leave the Diamond Princess a floating morgue.
Still, at least you didn’t claim to ‘think’. 😉

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

It was crystal clear from the beginning that (ala the Great Barrington Resolution) that the way to go was as outlined below. As a professional risk management consultant I wrote to Cummings (remember him?) and outlined a workable solution.
To put it simply, the only viable option was to isolate the vulnerable not try to isolate the virus which was obviously an impossibility, with the ludicrously expensive and utterly useless ‘test & trace’ scam.
The basic steps would involve:
1. Commandeer every holiday camp/village and isolated hotel etc in the country and cordon them off to prevent unauthorised access.. army patrolled to ensure same. No restriction on anyone voluntarily leaving but don’t come back!
1A. Build log cabins, mobile homes, nissan huts etc as fast as possible to enhance facilities.
2. Rigorous testing and quarantine prior to entry.
3. Residents inside to provide their own services afap (doctor, nurse, cook, laundry workers coming out of retirement). Any other service providers to be live-in and vetted prior to entry just like residents.
4. Totally VOLUNTARY participation.. any vulnerable person wishing to stay at home may do so but run a high risk, if course.
5. Life (work/school/leisure/play/socialise) to continue AS NORMAL both inside and outside the Refuge Villages, with sensible precautions only observed.
Piece of cake.. No need for useless PPE or grotestly expensive test n trace scams.
NB: Nursing Homes are a separate issue, but
Downing St parties can go right ahead!

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

It was never as bad as they claim. Once it was clear (and note there wasn’t any great headlines in the papers when it became clear) that intubation/ventilators were a death sentence and so automatic use of them was halted, the mortality started to fall.
The facts remain that the numbers who actually died “OF Covid” were tiny, those who died ‘With it” made the numbers up, even so, the mortality figures were nowhere near the claims (are they ever?) the doomsday Prof gave, AND very quickly reverted to the norm once the Care Home m@ss@cres by emptying hospitals etc had played out.
There is a reason Pneumonia was called the old man’s friend, because it was like the bottom of the hill, the inevitable destination of a downward trend of a sick person’s health. It made for a quieter death, BUT it was the end of a journey, not the beginning. Covid was a little like peumonia in that it killed in > 90% of cases, elderly with at least one co-mordbidity and above the average life expectancy. ALL that was known from Italy and Diamond Princess early on. The rest was mythology and Hancock is exposing that. The fact that many don’t want to know won’t change things, one day historians will look back amazed. Though if we manage to make Ukraine into a nuclear war, it may be many centuries in the future.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

It was never as bad as they claim. Once it was clear (and note there wasn’t any great headlines in the papers when it became clear) that intubation/ventilators were a death sentence and so automatic use of them was halted, the mortality started to fall.
The facts remain that the numbers who actually died “OF Covid” were tiny, those who died ‘With it” made the numbers up, even so, the mortality figures were nowhere near the claims (are they ever?) the doomsday Prof gave, AND very quickly reverted to the norm once the Care Home m@ss@cres by emptying hospitals etc had played out.
There is a reason Pneumonia was called the old man’s friend, because it was like the bottom of the hill, the inevitable destination of a downward trend of a sick person’s health. It made for a quieter death, BUT it was the end of a journey, not the beginning. Covid was a little like peumonia in that it killed in > 90% of cases, elderly with at least one co-mordbidity and above the average life expectancy. ALL that was known from Italy and Diamond Princess early on. The rest was mythology and Hancock is exposing that. The fact that many don’t want to know won’t change things, one day historians will look back amazed. Though if we manage to make Ukraine into a nuclear war, it may be many centuries in the future.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

Excuse the fact I’ve not actually replied to your post , but I can’t seem to post without replying to someone!
The answers may be VERY simple for many people.
a) We were locked down during a very beautiful period of weather.
b) IF like my family your grown up children returned home to a semi-detached with a wonderful view, large rear garden, easy access to country walks AND the workers got to work from Home (so a brilliant ability to choose hours etc)
c) MAYBE you got Furlough payments
d) You didn’t have any need for the NHS
e) You had no elderly relatives at death’s door or in a care-home
f) or perhaps you had young children and could enjoy their company (I missed much of my children’s young life as I worked away from home for years only returning at weekends)
g) The Financial consequences haven’t yet totally hit home & the economic disaster coming is also down to Net Zero so can be used to excuse lockdown.
h) Your education (particularly Uni Post Grad science MScs) wasn’t destroyed or seriously damaged.
Why would you regret it?
Give us another year maybe AND assuming the economic catastrophe is NOT blamed on ‘The Tories’ or on the common policies all the GreenPlaidSNPLibLabCons follow, such as QE, low interest rates, and worst of all Net Zero – (lock-down should come in there with Net Zero)
BUT all the pleasant/absence of toxic ones of it listed above mean it may be worth taking the ‘results’ of that survey with a giant sack of salt. As psychologists often tell you, ‘lived experiences’ are some of the most potent memories – possibly why many used to look back on the war years as a peculiarly good time.
Maybe the survey needs to ask about any of the circumstances mentioned in a-g above and break out the results that way too?

Jim R
Jim R
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

Same here – the only good thing to come out of this madness for me was discovering unherd and lockdown sceptics (and Brett Weinstein etc). Canada is a hopeless wasteland of timid conformity and i might have lost my mind without access to other viewpoints. Soon Trudeau will fully implement his censorship regime and when I type “unherd” into my browser i will get redirected to the CBC. I will miss you all.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

It is very simple
. a lot of Brits did not experience the financial impact of lockdowns during the lockdown and don’t seem to have the wherewithal to link things up now. Maybe also didn’t have the imagination and curiosity and thirst for knowledge to see the societal impacts and other harms? Also imo the population is too invested in the nanny state. Show me the people who lost their livelihoods who supported this travesty.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lesley van Reenen
Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

The media landscape in Canada is one of the worst in the world. We have one somewhat centrist national newspaper. Everything else is pretty well left wing.

Derek Bryce
Derek Bryce
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

I agree Kevin. Canada was a particularly egregious, though far from unique, case. My mother lives in British Columbia and her partner’s brain cancer was left undiagnosed then misdiagnosed for months during late winter and Spring 2020 because his GP wouldn’t see him in person ‘cos Covid’. After these months of my mother struggling alone to care for him, he was finally taken into hospital for a cat scan and given a few weeks. He ended his life using MAID around a fortnight later. All the while BC’s public health panjandrum, Dr. Bonnie Henry, was beatified by the lemming-like population. I was unable, because of the thicket of rules, regulations and hotel quarantine requirements on both sides of the Atlantic, to travel from the U.K. to support her. Even my brother in neighbouring Alberta was unable to travel across the provincial border at the height of it. Thankfully I have another brother who lives elsewhere in BC and he was able to come and take her back at least be with him, his wife and her grandchildren. I remember despairing conversations over WhatsApp video chat where mum was convinced she’d never see me in person again. I was finally able to travel to Canada to see her in August 2021 when Trudeau’s government grudgingly did away with hotel quarantine for Canadian citizens only. These f*****s in the U.K., Canadian and so many other governments have a lot to answer for. I’ll never forgive them.

Last edited 1 year ago by Derek Bryce
Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

I can just imagine the editor’s office when this poll result came in: “Well how inconvenient, these silly people with their clear thinking and unbiased opinions – quick Freddie, give us a nice cynical piece to keep the regulars onside.”

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

It was crystal clear from the beginning that (ala the Great Barrington Resolution) that the way to go was as outlined below. As a professional risk management consultant I wrote to Cummings (remember him?) and outlined a workable solution.
To put it simply, the only viable option was to isolate the vulnerable not try to isolate the virus which was obviously an impossibility, with the ludicrously expensive and utterly useless ‘test & trace’ scam.
The basic steps would involve:
1. Commandeer every holiday camp/village and isolated hotel etc in the country and cordon them off to prevent unauthorised access.. army patrolled to ensure same. No restriction on anyone voluntarily leaving but don’t come back!
1A. Build log cabins, mobile homes, nissan huts etc as fast as possible to enhance facilities.
2. Rigorous testing and quarantine prior to entry.
3. Residents inside to provide their own services afap (doctor, nurse, cook, laundry workers coming out of retirement). Any other service providers to be live-in and vetted prior to entry just like residents.
4. Totally VOLUNTARY participation.. any vulnerable person wishing to stay at home may do so but run a high risk, if course.
5. Life (work/school/leisure/play/socialise) to continue AS NORMAL both inside and outside the Refuge Villages, with sensible precautions only observed.
Piece of cake.. No need for useless PPE or grotestly expensive test n trace scams.
NB: Nursing Homes are a separate issue, but
Downing St parties can go right ahead!

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Hamann

Excuse the fact I’ve not actually replied to your post , but I can’t seem to post without replying to someone!
The answers may be VERY simple for many people.
a) We were locked down during a very beautiful period of weather.
b) IF like my family your grown up children returned home to a semi-detached with a wonderful view, large rear garden, easy access to country walks AND the workers got to work from Home (so a brilliant ability to choose hours etc)
c) MAYBE you got Furlough payments
d) You didn’t have any need for the NHS
e) You had no elderly relatives at death’s door or in a care-home
f) or perhaps you had young children and could enjoy their company (I missed much of my children’s young life as I worked away from home for years only returning at weekends)
g) The Financial consequences haven’t yet totally hit home & the economic disaster coming is also down to Net Zero so can be used to excuse lockdown.
h) Your education (particularly Uni Post Grad science MScs) wasn’t destroyed or seriously damaged.
Why would you regret it?
Give us another year maybe AND assuming the economic catastrophe is NOT blamed on ‘The Tories’ or on the common policies all the GreenPlaidSNPLibLabCons follow, such as QE, low interest rates, and worst of all Net Zero – (lock-down should come in there with Net Zero)
BUT all the pleasant/absence of toxic ones of it listed above mean it may be worth taking the ‘results’ of that survey with a giant sack of salt. As psychologists often tell you, ‘lived experiences’ are some of the most potent memories – possibly why many used to look back on the war years as a peculiarly good time.
Maybe the survey needs to ask about any of the circumstances mentioned in a-g above and break out the results that way too?

Kevin Hamann
Kevin Hamann
1 year ago

Sadly it is the same in Canada. Unherd is the only online platform i pay for. Keep fighting the good fight Freddie.

Andrew Horsman
Andrew Horsman
1 year ago

I won’t ever be able to look at the people in the same way after what we collectively allowed to happen in 2020. Freddie is spot on that fear and moral panic led to appallingly bad misjudgments and still – after all of the harms, the pain, the suffering the “lockdowns” caused – so many people cannot seem to see past the narrative with which they were firebombed. It wasn’t the Black Death. It was dropped from PHE’s list of highly infectious diseases of high consequence BEFORE the lockdowns started. The Diamond Princess demonstrated that it wouldn’t wipe out “the vulnerable” en masse. No, this was an exercise in power, coercion, a cynical manipulation of good people’s compassion, guilt, pride, shame, and fear. They were tricked – by greedy, cowardly, messed up, powerful people – into harming themselves, their children, their families, and their communities: all for naught. It’s time folk in all walks of life found the humility and courage that lies deep within each of us to admit they got it wrong, and to look at evil directly in its eyes.

Unlike Freddie, I remain angry with the people who perpetrated this calamity, but I also think anger can be power, if you know how to use it – and I genuinely think the people who did this, whomsoever they may be, are now more afraid of us than we are of them (in fact they probably always were).

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Well said.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Well said!
However it is all too easy to blame everything on the wretched Government, however culpable they maybe.

This island is supposed to be one of the most sophisticated spots on the planet, yet our ‘demos’ proved to be nothing more than vacuous cretins! How could this have happened? And worse still, will it happen again?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

The ” pipl” are vacuous, ignorant ill educated lemmings, who will do what they are told meekly, especially if by a gnome in a high viz vest, or ” on line”…. one only had to look at the queues of the ” Toylitte Stationary” automatons: these people elect our politicians, and even more frighteningly, ” serve” on our juries, and nowadays are our Magistrates.

Philip Burrell
Philip Burrell
1 year ago

Ah. The wonders of an education at a minor Catholic public school followed by stints in the Army and the City do bring out the best in people. It must be so enjoyable to look down with contempt on the hoi polloi. Such a shame that so many of those ignorant “pipl” committed economic suicide by siding with the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg and co and voted for Brexit. But then again what else would you expect from them.

Last edited 1 year ago by Philip Burrell
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Philip Burrell

Hoi polloi!

No need for THE as hoi is the definite article.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Philip Burrell

” does” not ” do” even my edukayshun tort mi heow te rite….

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Philip Burrell

Hoi polloi!

No need for THE as hoi is the definite article.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Philip Burrell

” does” not ” do” even my edukayshun tort mi heow te rite….

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

Actually a lot of the ‘ppl’ live in their own alternative world where they take no notice of the chattering classes and those who try and lord it over us. They have learnt that drawing attention to oneself simply brings down opprobrium and potentially negative sanctions. Hence they simply don’t obey the laws they don’t like and carry on until they are caught, BUT with our current police farce, they aren’t often caught.
It was easy enough to not wear a mask, curiously the only place I couldn’t get away with it was in NHS run places, still can’t because telling them you are exempt if challenged means they want to know how & why. No one else did, in fact no one even bothered to ask.

Last edited 1 year ago by Simon Simple
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

I wore a full face metal welders mask… it didn’t half rev up the coronaphobes at Tesco…

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

I wore a full face metal welders mask… it didn’t half rev up the coronaphobes at Tesco…

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

And Judges!

Philip Burrell
Philip Burrell
1 year ago

Ah. The wonders of an education at a minor Catholic public school followed by stints in the Army and the City do bring out the best in people. It must be so enjoyable to look down with contempt on the hoi polloi. Such a shame that so many of those ignorant “pipl” committed economic suicide by siding with the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg and co and voted for Brexit. But then again what else would you expect from them.

Last edited 1 year ago by Philip Burrell
Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

Actually a lot of the ‘ppl’ live in their own alternative world where they take no notice of the chattering classes and those who try and lord it over us. They have learnt that drawing attention to oneself simply brings down opprobrium and potentially negative sanctions. Hence they simply don’t obey the laws they don’t like and carry on until they are caught, BUT with our current police farce, they aren’t often caught.
It was easy enough to not wear a mask, curiously the only place I couldn’t get away with it was in NHS run places, still can’t because telling them you are exempt if challenged means they want to know how & why. No one else did, in fact no one even bothered to ask.

Last edited 1 year ago by Simon Simple
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

And Judges!

Jane H
Jane H
1 year ago

Once the Global Pandemic Treaty is signed next year allowing the WHO to decide what constitutes a pandemic, the overriding power of the Treaty is bound to lock us all down again. Sovereign states will be allowed to decide their own responses allegedly, providing, and here’s the crunch, they do not put the health of their population at risk and of course you can guess who gets to decide on that one

 the World Health Organisation’s legally binding Treaty!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane H

The WHO will soon prove to be a greater danger than Adolph & Co ever were!

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

The WHO should be renamed the Wuhan Health Organisation, they should have no credibility whatsoever with the Chinese connections they have. Come to think of it, they don’t have any credibility in my eyes, and the UN is going the same way with their IPCC garbage. We should stop funding both organisations.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

Precisely, well said.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

Precisely, well said.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

The WHO should be renamed the Wuhan Health Organisation, they should have no credibility whatsoever with the Chinese connections they have. Come to think of it, they don’t have any credibility in my eyes, and the UN is going the same way with their IPCC garbage. We should stop funding both organisations.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane H

The WHO will soon prove to be a greater danger than Adolph & Co ever were!

Alex Stonor
Alex Stonor
1 year ago

I do think that there was another actor at play: most people work hard for mediocre salaries or less. They have little time to spend on either leisure, family or household chores. Lockdown was the first time that we were given that time and I noticed how exhausted people were. Professions where burnout is especially severe, were the most supportive of lockdowns: education & social services. These people could, to some extent, take to the sofa, breathe, bake. Interestingly, the culture of presentiism is as entrenched as it was before covid: colleagues coughing & spluttering over keyboards; testing negative for covid. So the fear & moral panic hasn’t changed us or our working practices and so we will exhaust ourselves again and probably thrill to the prospect of another deadly round of lockdowns .

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Stonor

That is an interesting take, the sudden ‘lack of staff’ post lockdowns across the globes (I know it was due to Brexit) but perhaps it might have been due to the enjoyment of NOT working. The fact that there appears to be a slow return to working may be due to the money running out and so the enjoyment of not working is reduced.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Stonor

A very interesting observation indeed, thank you.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Stonor

That is an interesting take, the sudden ‘lack of staff’ post lockdowns across the globes (I know it was due to Brexit) but perhaps it might have been due to the enjoyment of NOT working. The fact that there appears to be a slow return to working may be due to the money running out and so the enjoyment of not working is reduced.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Stonor

A very interesting observation indeed, thank you.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

I’m not so sure of that. The Demos (plebians) turned up at beach parties in large numbers – it was our ‘sophisticated’ Patrician Demos who claimed they’d all die, though curiously being a member of the BLM appeared to provide immunity. sigh Just think, we could have saved a fortune on vaccines and all the subsequent harms that are coming to light simply by mandating membership of the BLM. I fear Starmer missed a trick there.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

An odd mix of Ancient Greek and Latin, but otherwise you are spot on.

As for BLM, what ridiculous nonsense.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

An odd mix of Ancient Greek and Latin, but otherwise you are spot on.

As for BLM, what ridiculous nonsense.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

The ” pipl” are vacuous, ignorant ill educated lemmings, who will do what they are told meekly, especially if by a gnome in a high viz vest, or ” on line”…. one only had to look at the queues of the ” Toylitte Stationary” automatons: these people elect our politicians, and even more frighteningly, ” serve” on our juries, and nowadays are our Magistrates.

Jane H
Jane H
1 year ago

Once the Global Pandemic Treaty is signed next year allowing the WHO to decide what constitutes a pandemic, the overriding power of the Treaty is bound to lock us all down again. Sovereign states will be allowed to decide their own responses allegedly, providing, and here’s the crunch, they do not put the health of their population at risk and of course you can guess who gets to decide on that one

 the World Health Organisation’s legally binding Treaty!

Alex Stonor
Alex Stonor
1 year ago

I do think that there was another actor at play: most people work hard for mediocre salaries or less. They have little time to spend on either leisure, family or household chores. Lockdown was the first time that we were given that time and I noticed how exhausted people were. Professions where burnout is especially severe, were the most supportive of lockdowns: education & social services. These people could, to some extent, take to the sofa, breathe, bake. Interestingly, the culture of presentiism is as entrenched as it was before covid: colleagues coughing & spluttering over keyboards; testing negative for covid. So the fear & moral panic hasn’t changed us or our working practices and so we will exhaust ourselves again and probably thrill to the prospect of another deadly round of lockdowns .

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

I’m not so sure of that. The Demos (plebians) turned up at beach parties in large numbers – it was our ‘sophisticated’ Patrician Demos who claimed they’d all die, though curiously being a member of the BLM appeared to provide immunity. sigh Just think, we could have saved a fortune on vaccines and all the subsequent harms that are coming to light simply by mandating membership of the BLM. I fear Starmer missed a trick there.

Greg Moreison
Greg Moreison
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Great comment. With one tiny amendment: for us, it was indeed ‘all for naught’.
For ‘them’, however, it enabled the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the planet.

For individualists, materialists, atheists and nihilists in the latter class, it would appear to have been a jolly good move.
For the rest of us who still believe in some tangible form of ‘The Common Good’, it remains to find a way forward knowing we cannot rely upon these people or the systems they have created and depend upon.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg Moreison

With all due respect that does sound a tad superior.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

BUT does it sound true?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

Yes!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

Yes!

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

BUT does it sound true?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg Moreison

With all due respect that does sound a tad superior.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

People used to ask how the German people were ‘so easily’ swept up in the actions of National Socialism. Now you know.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

but we now have National Socialism… via the MasturbaTory garden drinks Party?

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

IF that was irony a smiley would help. You realise of course that before Boris’ parties, (which he didn’t always attend) the Scots Health Minister had resigned over breaking rules, the Doomsday Prof, who claimed we’d “All die” if we went out did so. Though I believe it was because he had a married mistress to die for. (Never seen a photo so not sure if I’d agree with him, tho’ given I never thought I’d die perhaps even a pretty mistress would have sufficed for me)
I could provide an almost endless list of politicians of all colours and in many states who broke the rules. So far only Boris has been arraigned. Mind you, given he was the man in charge, I’m not whinging ‘injustice’ too loudly, the buck stopped with him. I wait for the day Starmer is arraigned over something or other – maybe a close look at his lack of role in Child exploitation scandals, or his current support for Trans Child abuse?

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

IF that was irony a smiley would help. You realise of course that before Boris’ parties, (which he didn’t always attend) the Scots Health Minister had resigned over breaking rules, the Doomsday Prof, who claimed we’d “All die” if we went out did so. Though I believe it was because he had a married mistress to die for. (Never seen a photo so not sure if I’d agree with him, tho’ given I never thought I’d die perhaps even a pretty mistress would have sufficed for me)
I could provide an almost endless list of politicians of all colours and in many states who broke the rules. So far only Boris has been arraigned. Mind you, given he was the man in charge, I’m not whinging ‘injustice’ too loudly, the buck stopped with him. I wait for the day Starmer is arraigned over something or other – maybe a close look at his lack of role in Child exploitation scandals, or his current support for Trans Child abuse?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

but we now have National Socialism… via the MasturbaTory garden drinks Party?

Jim Stanton
Jim Stanton
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

This is an excellent post.

Peadar Laighléis
Peadar Laighléis
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Agree absolutely and I will take this one step farther (very germane to the reply below made by AC Harper about the German people being swept away be National Socialism in the 1930s – though I must emphasise this was a minority) in that many became the dupes of the system and informed on their neighbours in the misguided belief that they were acting in the common good. Yes, I am angry – angry at the effects of public policy as much how it was carried out. And I am writing from the Republic of Ireland where lockdown was more severe than in Britain, mainly because the bulk of Irish political parties are vying with each other to turn the RoI into a model Blue State.

Nanu Mitchell
Nanu Mitchell
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Agree wholeheartedly. These idiots have destroyed our civilisation, culture, faith, commerce, trust forever. Life will never be the same. Don’t believe anything they say or do.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

The tools of 5th generation warfare unleashed on the public. And they worked! Those tools can be used to control and remove governments, beware.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

5th column?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

5th column?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

With all due respect you sound a little paranoid, particularly when you get into the “us versus them” mindset.

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

I share the anger but – sadly – do not feel that it empowers me in any way. Just left me unhappier having found truths I rather wouldn’t have.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Well said.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Well said!
However it is all too easy to blame everything on the wretched Government, however culpable they maybe.

This island is supposed to be one of the most sophisticated spots on the planet, yet our ‘demos’ proved to be nothing more than vacuous cretins! How could this have happened? And worse still, will it happen again?

Greg Moreison
Greg Moreison
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Great comment. With one tiny amendment: for us, it was indeed ‘all for naught’.
For ‘them’, however, it enabled the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the planet.

For individualists, materialists, atheists and nihilists in the latter class, it would appear to have been a jolly good move.
For the rest of us who still believe in some tangible form of ‘The Common Good’, it remains to find a way forward knowing we cannot rely upon these people or the systems they have created and depend upon.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

People used to ask how the German people were ‘so easily’ swept up in the actions of National Socialism. Now you know.

Jim Stanton
Jim Stanton
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

This is an excellent post.

Peadar Laighléis
Peadar Laighléis
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Agree absolutely and I will take this one step farther (very germane to the reply below made by AC Harper about the German people being swept away be National Socialism in the 1930s – though I must emphasise this was a minority) in that many became the dupes of the system and informed on their neighbours in the misguided belief that they were acting in the common good. Yes, I am angry – angry at the effects of public policy as much how it was carried out. And I am writing from the Republic of Ireland where lockdown was more severe than in Britain, mainly because the bulk of Irish political parties are vying with each other to turn the RoI into a model Blue State.

Nanu Mitchell
Nanu Mitchell
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

Agree wholeheartedly. These idiots have destroyed our civilisation, culture, faith, commerce, trust forever. Life will never be the same. Don’t believe anything they say or do.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

The tools of 5th generation warfare unleashed on the public. And they worked! Those tools can be used to control and remove governments, beware.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

With all due respect you sound a little paranoid, particularly when you get into the “us versus them” mindset.

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Horsman

I share the anger but – sadly – do not feel that it empowers me in any way. Just left me unhappier having found truths I rather wouldn’t have.

Andrew Horsman
Andrew Horsman
1 year ago

I won’t ever be able to look at the people in the same way after what we collectively allowed to happen in 2020. Freddie is spot on that fear and moral panic led to appallingly bad misjudgments and still – after all of the harms, the pain, the suffering the “lockdowns” caused – so many people cannot seem to see past the narrative with which they were firebombed. It wasn’t the Black Death. It was dropped from PHE’s list of highly infectious diseases of high consequence BEFORE the lockdowns started. The Diamond Princess demonstrated that it wouldn’t wipe out “the vulnerable” en masse. No, this was an exercise in power, coercion, a cynical manipulation of good people’s compassion, guilt, pride, shame, and fear. They were tricked – by greedy, cowardly, messed up, powerful people – into harming themselves, their children, their families, and their communities: all for naught. It’s time folk in all walks of life found the humility and courage that lies deep within each of us to admit they got it wrong, and to look at evil directly in its eyes.

Unlike Freddie, I remain angry with the people who perpetrated this calamity, but I also think anger can be power, if you know how to use it – and I genuinely think the people who did this, whomsoever they may be, are now more afraid of us than we are of them (in fact they probably always were).

J Bryant
J Bryant
1 year ago

I believe many people in the West are tired of the struggle to live the lifestyle that is relentlessly sold to us, from our earliest years, by TV, the internet, movies, advertising in general. So many people simply can’t make a wage high enough to support a moderately affluent lifestyle. Our parents and, more likely, grandparents could afford “the great American dream” during the post-WWII boom, but no longer. The well-paid jobs are largely off-shored or consumed by technology.
Instinctively people sensed this change in economic reality, then along came covid, lockdowns, and extensive government financial support. For many people this represented the beginning of the future where most depend on government handouts while few of us do specialized, well compensated jobs to generate government tax revenue. For some people, lockdowns did not represent a great loss of freedoms because their poverty meant those freedoms were largely theoretical.
From my perspective, the greatest accomplishment of thirty years of globalism and neoliberal economics is to demoralize people to the point where all they want is some form of modest, guaranteed income and a reasonably stable life even if they must turn responsibility for much of their life over to the government. That’s not a desirable outcome but I suspect it’s where we are.

Russell Hamilton
Russell Hamilton
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

I guess we eased into it – compulsory seatbelt wearing in cars seemed a good idea, bicycle helmets (a little more controversial) similarly, but now, apparently, I need an Occupational Health & Safety person to come and check my office chair and tell me how to sit correctly on it.

Stu B
Stu B
1 year ago

Right at the start China report a fatality rate of less than 1%. That should have been enough information protect the elderly and let everyone else carry on. Blitz spirit, my a**e.

Bruce Edgar
Bruce Edgar
1 year ago
Reply to  Stu B

The Great Barrington Declaration, published and signed by important scientists from around the world, recommended just that: focus on the vulnerable (obese, fragile, immuno compromised) and let the rest go about their business. The great canard fueling the panic: “it’s a highly infectious disease). Laughter is highly contagious also, but it kills few. Over 90% of those who got Covid did not die, and most cases were flu-like. But the damage has already been done, and it is visible for us all now: the same group think, the same panic regarding Russia’s very much provoked invasion of Ukarine. We are soooo screwed, and we never learn–not even from the very immediate past.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Edgar

Russia’s “very much provoked” invasion of Ukraine. Really? you and I live in very different worlds.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

His informed, yours not it would appear.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Im in that different world too. Russia is defiantly holding out against America’s intent to get control of all that eastern territory and thus free access to the fuel sources there. As the days of overt colonialism are over they are doing it is in a more covert way. I hate Ukrainians anyway so I don’t care if they lose. I want them to lose but so actually do the Yanks who are mercilessly using them.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

His informed, yours not it would appear.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Im in that different world too. Russia is defiantly holding out against America’s intent to get control of all that eastern territory and thus free access to the fuel sources there. As the days of overt colonialism are over they are doing it is in a more covert way. I hate Ukrainians anyway so I don’t care if they lose. I want them to lose but so actually do the Yanks who are mercilessly using them.

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Edgar

Surely, you mean that 99.99% of covid infections did not result in death?

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew F
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Edgar

Russia’s “very much provoked” invasion of Ukraine. Really? you and I live in very different worlds.

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruce Edgar

Surely, you mean that 99.99% of covid infections did not result in death?

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew F
Bruce Edgar
Bruce Edgar
1 year ago
Reply to  Stu B

The Great Barrington Declaration, published and signed by important scientists from around the world, recommended just that: focus on the vulnerable (obese, fragile, immuno compromised) and let the rest go about their business. The great canard fueling the panic: “it’s a highly infectious disease). Laughter is highly contagious also, but it kills few. Over 90% of those who got Covid did not die, and most cases were flu-like. But the damage has already been done, and it is visible for us all now: the same group think, the same panic regarding Russia’s very much provoked invasion of Ukarine. We are soooo screwed, and we never learn–not even from the very immediate past.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

LOL – my vehicle has an alarm that keeps telling me to put the seat belt on. I won’t bore you with what I do that means I’m happy with the risk of not wearing it, BUT if you are fed up, you need to join the ‘underground’. There are far more than you think. ie Those of us who ignore what we want because we can’t get those in authority to listen to us no matter what
I ignore the law on belts a lot of the time because it is contradicted by the demands made on me to reach targets. It is in more in my interests to reach my targets and to ensure I drive carefully enough to meet them than wear a seat belt. That also means I concentrate more on avoiding crashing & if someone did hit me, well, life is always full of risks. The biggest risk is avoiding being knocked down once I’m out the vehicle. But if they catch me, I’ll apologise and claim some excuse; may even self-identify as psychologically unable to wear a restraint or as some oppressed minority and claim ‘discrimination’ There must be some odd religion where a seat belt isn’t allowed. IF not I’ll start one.
As for the vehicle alarm, it is very bureaucratic, and it doesn’t know that the seat belt only fastens the seat. The Tacho is smarter mind, it shuts down the vehicle once the engine is off and handbrake applied if you go over hours. Which is fine by me, because I can’t then be attacked over missed targets – “It wuz the Tacho Guv!”

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

The more interesting argument is that ” speed kills” : it is a matter of empirical fact that collisions could not occur per se, if either of the colliding parties were travelling faster, or indeed slower.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

The more interesting argument is that ” speed kills” : it is a matter of empirical fact that collisions could not occur per se, if either of the colliding parties were travelling faster, or indeed slower.

Stu B
Stu B
1 year ago

Right at the start China report a fatality rate of less than 1%. That should have been enough information protect the elderly and let everyone else carry on. Blitz spirit, my a**e.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

LOL – my vehicle has an alarm that keeps telling me to put the seat belt on. I won’t bore you with what I do that means I’m happy with the risk of not wearing it, BUT if you are fed up, you need to join the ‘underground’. There are far more than you think. ie Those of us who ignore what we want because we can’t get those in authority to listen to us no matter what
I ignore the law on belts a lot of the time because it is contradicted by the demands made on me to reach targets. It is in more in my interests to reach my targets and to ensure I drive carefully enough to meet them than wear a seat belt. That also means I concentrate more on avoiding crashing & if someone did hit me, well, life is always full of risks. The biggest risk is avoiding being knocked down once I’m out the vehicle. But if they catch me, I’ll apologise and claim some excuse; may even self-identify as psychologically unable to wear a restraint or as some oppressed minority and claim ‘discrimination’ There must be some odd religion where a seat belt isn’t allowed. IF not I’ll start one.
As for the vehicle alarm, it is very bureaucratic, and it doesn’t know that the seat belt only fastens the seat. The Tacho is smarter mind, it shuts down the vehicle once the engine is off and handbrake applied if you go over hours. Which is fine by me, because I can’t then be attacked over missed targets – “It wuz the Tacho Guv!”

Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

‘ For some people, lockdowns did not represent a great loss of freedoms because their poverty meant those freedoms were largely theoretical.’

You can’t say that often enough. The decline of the civil state and the degradation of our common cultural capital over the last 30 years has left a huge population in the UK which has nothing much in common with politicians and journalists, and doesn’t understand why they’re banging on about this. I don’t like using the word ‘stakeholder’, but just this once – if you want stakeholders to support you, make sure they have a stake in your project.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago

Freedom and wealth aren’t the same thing. Both are of value, but the idea that because you are poor you might as well give up on your freedoms as well is morally and philosophically suspect! In fact some of the poorest people did worse our of lockdowns and were in practice much more likely to break the rules, whether willingly or not

Mark Goodhand
Mark Goodhand
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Indeed. I hate to think what it must have been like for poor families stuck in apartments, without easy access to green space.

Lockdown was miserable enough for those of us with gardens and pleasant walks on our doorstep.

While we sat at our laptops and ordered our food, millions of people were forced to wear masks for hours on end, as a condition of employment (and let’s not forget those who were forced out of their jobs for refusing the vaccine).

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

Thank you voicing some compassion for those who had to work be-masked day in and day out to serve others, like nurses fo instance There’s been much contempt expressed here for those of us whose who chose to get vaxed and wear masks, a kind of inverted snobbery. And a strong tone of patronizing of the poor.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

IF you chose to get vaccinated for such reasons you deserve a medal. However, many NHS workers (at least if the demo I bumped into in Birmingham was anything to go by) refused and were sacked. Curiously the BBC when it came to those NHS workers, didn’t have that as a headline, in fact I can’t remember them covering it much at all. The other aspect of the NHS was the wearing of masks. After an accident (not driving/seat belt related) I was in A&E for stitches ,I didn’t see a single member of the NHS staff obeying the mask rules. Mainly wearing them under nose, under chin, but also regularly touching them raising and lowering them, and in the 4 hours I sat watching them in A&E I didn’t see ONE replace a mask. Admittedly only a few were permanently in the view in the public or office area for long enough to be certain they didn’t, BUT if they did, they swapped under chin masks for under chin masks.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

IF you chose to get vaccinated for such reasons you deserve a medal. However, many NHS workers (at least if the demo I bumped into in Birmingham was anything to go by) refused and were sacked. Curiously the BBC when it came to those NHS workers, didn’t have that as a headline, in fact I can’t remember them covering it much at all. The other aspect of the NHS was the wearing of masks. After an accident (not driving/seat belt related) I was in A&E for stitches ,I didn’t see a single member of the NHS staff obeying the mask rules. Mainly wearing them under nose, under chin, but also regularly touching them raising and lowering them, and in the 4 hours I sat watching them in A&E I didn’t see ONE replace a mask. Admittedly only a few were permanently in the view in the public or office area for long enough to be certain they didn’t, BUT if they did, they swapped under chin masks for under chin masks.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

I agree re the apartments, I disagree re semi’s/gardens – lockdowns were so personal. Our lockdown with all the family home was brilliant. Those working from home got paid, worked the hours that suited, and we played board games most nights, in fact it was a great experience. BUT only because we had a garden, access to country walks, freedom to choose our hours, brilliant weather AND none of the tragic downsides that make it the evil it was. We were very lucky, except for one destroyed university post grad course. Though even that had a silver lining. The post-grad is so disillusioned with the Wokeness of science and its corruption that even they are not too upset as they are packing in science as a career.
Oh, I also forgot, i wasn’t ignorant of the economic consequences of QE/Low interest rates and the potential disaster of Net Zero so 5 or so years ago began to hedge my bets re pensions/money etc with precious metals. The clue so far as I can tell is, read the MSM but don’t believe a word they say without alternative often narrowly focused sources such as industry magazines etc and alternative voices. Some are con-men, BUT a little thought, more reading and some reasoning has worked well for me so far in deciding who I believe and acting accordingly.
One thing is now clear however, the West is heading to a dark place, may even be there. For the UK at the next GE IF we can’t reverse it (and I fear we won’t unless the real economic consequences have fully hit home by then) we’ll not do so by voting for any of the existing parties UNLESS we do so by voting for the party who doesn’t own the sitting MP. A complete clearout of sitting MPs MIGHT concentrate minds, but I doubt that will happen. My hope is that the Red Wall seats will again decide to screw the main parties who took them for granted and so vote Reform. Those much maligned voters gave Boris and the Tories a chance to change our direction, and Boris proved not up to the job. He was as he portrayed himself, an egotistical clown. That sadly may have disillusioned the Red Wall. I hope not, IF they vote Reform, then that is a start, not that I’m supportive of all their policies.

Last edited 1 year ago by Simon Simple
Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

All true, but rejecting Tories would deliver Labour government.
In what sense would that be better outcome?
Labour supported covid measures and their only objections were that measures were not stricter, wider and of longer duration.

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

All true, but rejecting Tories would deliver Labour government.
In what sense would that be better outcome?
Labour supported covid measures and their only objections were that measures were not stricter, wider and of longer duration.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

But why did you stay in your house and garden and order food online. Everyone was allowed to go out to get food and take exercise.. If you walk to the shops every day with a shopping trolley and if the way to the shops lies through your local park and if the weather is sunny every day. At my local Aldi + Tesco those were packed every day,and I’ll tell you who with,all the local bolshy,opinionated,characterful 80+ years old. They blocked the aisles in convivial chatting groups and pushed in front of you to get stuff off the shelf. These grannies and grandpas didn’t give a stuff about distancing and were definitely not afraid of potential granny killers like me. On the day Boris announced that picnicking in the park was illegal I did that very thing and in full view of the police car that drove past me and ignored me,as I knew they would.

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

Yes, I despise my former friends for happily supporting lockdowns as members of laptop class.
But expecting others to carry out working in food production, distribution and retail to provide for their needs.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

Thank you voicing some compassion for those who had to work be-masked day in and day out to serve others, like nurses fo instance There’s been much contempt expressed here for those of us whose who chose to get vaxed and wear masks, a kind of inverted snobbery. And a strong tone of patronizing of the poor.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

I agree re the apartments, I disagree re semi’s/gardens – lockdowns were so personal. Our lockdown with all the family home was brilliant. Those working from home got paid, worked the hours that suited, and we played board games most nights, in fact it was a great experience. BUT only because we had a garden, access to country walks, freedom to choose our hours, brilliant weather AND none of the tragic downsides that make it the evil it was. We were very lucky, except for one destroyed university post grad course. Though even that had a silver lining. The post-grad is so disillusioned with the Wokeness of science and its corruption that even they are not too upset as they are packing in science as a career.
Oh, I also forgot, i wasn’t ignorant of the economic consequences of QE/Low interest rates and the potential disaster of Net Zero so 5 or so years ago began to hedge my bets re pensions/money etc with precious metals. The clue so far as I can tell is, read the MSM but don’t believe a word they say without alternative often narrowly focused sources such as industry magazines etc and alternative voices. Some are con-men, BUT a little thought, more reading and some reasoning has worked well for me so far in deciding who I believe and acting accordingly.
One thing is now clear however, the West is heading to a dark place, may even be there. For the UK at the next GE IF we can’t reverse it (and I fear we won’t unless the real economic consequences have fully hit home by then) we’ll not do so by voting for any of the existing parties UNLESS we do so by voting for the party who doesn’t own the sitting MP. A complete clearout of sitting MPs MIGHT concentrate minds, but I doubt that will happen. My hope is that the Red Wall seats will again decide to screw the main parties who took them for granted and so vote Reform. Those much maligned voters gave Boris and the Tories a chance to change our direction, and Boris proved not up to the job. He was as he portrayed himself, an egotistical clown. That sadly may have disillusioned the Red Wall. I hope not, IF they vote Reform, then that is a start, not that I’m supportive of all their policies.

Last edited 1 year ago by Simon Simple
jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

But why did you stay in your house and garden and order food online. Everyone was allowed to go out to get food and take exercise.. If you walk to the shops every day with a shopping trolley and if the way to the shops lies through your local park and if the weather is sunny every day. At my local Aldi + Tesco those were packed every day,and I’ll tell you who with,all the local bolshy,opinionated,characterful 80+ years old. They blocked the aisles in convivial chatting groups and pushed in front of you to get stuff off the shelf. These grannies and grandpas didn’t give a stuff about distancing and were definitely not afraid of potential granny killers like me. On the day Boris announced that picnicking in the park was illegal I did that very thing and in full view of the police car that drove past me and ignored me,as I knew they would.

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

Yes, I despise my former friends for happily supporting lockdowns as members of laptop class.
But expecting others to carry out working in food production, distribution and retail to provide for their needs.

Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Ah. The best things in life are free, eh? Poverty does have some drawbacks tho – I’m not saying that people ‘give up on their freedoms’ so much as pointing out that (say) now all the libraries are closing, if you want to read a book and enjoy some new thoughts, you’ll have to buy the book. If you want to get into town, now that all the public transport around here is gone, you just – can’t. A load of our mid-century assumptions about free access to one sort of culture or another have been hacked to death over the last twenty years. Stand up and fight for your rights! But the park is closed to demonstrations and has been flogged off to private concert promoters for 12 weekends out of the next 13
and so on. And you’re right that in practice the less wealthy had to break lockdown rules more than the asset-rich (who could break the rules in private anyway
)

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

Two points re your views
a) IF you buy the book, and it is printed, then you won’t have to be baffled at the sudden disappearance of characters you liked, situations that appealed and words you thought accurate. Also you won’t have to try and get the Librarian to find you a copy of the printed book that had all those things in when originally printed.
b) The City center won’t survive without public transport, as most of us won’t be forking out the ÂŁ10 a time to simply travel into the ULEZ or whatever our local highway robbery scam is called.
The answer is either vote for Reform – only because they currently have no MPs and are hated by the main stream – so a two fingers via a ballot is reason enough for me.
OR a thing I wish might happen. Millions go into the polling station and collect their ballot paper BUT with a previously folder piece of paper hidden in pocket. The take their ballot paper and replace it with said smuggled piece so they have something to put in the ballot box, then they take the ballot paper home scribble NONE OF THE ABOVE across it and send it in an unstamped envelope to 10 Downing street.
Once in the post-box it becomes Royal Mail, has to be delivered, BUT the recipient has to pay. Now I know the BBC would try and avoid reporting on it, but I’m willing to bet the Post Office couldn’t conceal the fact IF enough people did it. If nothing else, it would annoy 10 Downing Street and HMRC.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

That sounds a great idea. I was going to spoil my ballot paper anyway. This sounds even more effective and annoying.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon Simple

That sounds a great idea. I was going to spoil my ballot paper anyway. This sounds even more effective and annoying.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago

Two points re your views
a) IF you buy the book, and it is printed, then you won’t have to be baffled at the sudden disappearance of characters you liked, situations that appealed and words you thought accurate. Also you won’t have to try and get the Librarian to find you a copy of the printed book that had all those things in when originally printed.
b) The City center won’t survive without public transport, as most of us won’t be forking out the ÂŁ10 a time to simply travel into the ULEZ or whatever our local highway robbery scam is called.
The answer is either vote for Reform – only because they currently have no MPs and are hated by the main stream – so a two fingers via a ballot is reason enough for me.
OR a thing I wish might happen. Millions go into the polling station and collect their ballot paper BUT with a previously folder piece of paper hidden in pocket. The take their ballot paper and replace it with said smuggled piece so they have something to put in the ballot box, then they take the ballot paper home scribble NONE OF THE ABOVE across it and send it in an unstamped envelope to 10 Downing street.
Once in the post-box it becomes Royal Mail, has to be delivered, BUT the recipient has to pay. Now I know the BBC would try and avoid reporting on it, but I’m willing to bet the Post Office couldn’t conceal the fact IF enough people did it. If nothing else, it would annoy 10 Downing Street and HMRC.

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

The key phrase there is ‘break rules’ – once you are doing that , you are happy enough, so you just carry on under the radar. That is what happens in states like Soviet Russia etc, Argentina where the Police when ‘off duty’ get paid to guard the illegal ‘dollar exchanges’ that make life liveable under incompetent and corrupt Governments. It is happening here too, the issue is the ‘narks’ who’d spy on you, so that’s why you break the law surreptitiously. So why am I broadcasting it? Well, the more of us who do it, the quicker the official edifice collapses, and anyway, I don’t believe anyone is going to hunt me down over this, they are too busy stopping silent prayer. Even if they did, I’d obey until out of sight. 😉

Mark Goodhand
Mark Goodhand
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Indeed. I hate to think what it must have been like for poor families stuck in apartments, without easy access to green space.

Lockdown was miserable enough for those of us with gardens and pleasant walks on our doorstep.

While we sat at our laptops and ordered our food, millions of people were forced to wear masks for hours on end, as a condition of employment (and let’s not forget those who were forced out of their jobs for refusing the vaccine).

Andrew McDonald
Andrew McDonald
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Ah. The best things in life are free, eh? Poverty does have some drawbacks tho – I’m not saying that people ‘give up on their freedoms’ so much as pointing out that (say) now all the libraries are closing, if you want to read a book and enjoy some new thoughts, you’ll have to buy the book. If you want to get into town, now that all the public transport around here is gone, you just – can’t. A load of our mid-century assumptions about free access to one sort of culture or another have been hacked to death over the last twenty years. Stand up and fight for your rights! But the park is closed to demonstrations and has been flogged off to private concert promoters for 12 weekends out of the next 13
and so on. And you’re right that in practice the less wealthy had to break lockdown rules more than the asset-rich (who could break the rules in private anyway
)

Simon Simple
Simon Simple
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

The key phrase there is ‘break rules’ – once you are doing that , you are happy enough, so you just carry on under the radar. That is what happens in states like Soviet Russia etc, Argentina where the Police when ‘off duty’ get paid to guard the illegal ‘dollar exchanges’ that make life liveable under incompetent and corrupt Governments. It is happening here too, the issue is the ‘narks’ who’d spy on you, so that’s why you break the law surreptitiously. So why am I broadcasting it? Well, the more of us who do it, the quicker the official edifice collapses, and anyway, I don’t believe anyone is going to hunt me down over this, they are too busy stopping silent prayer. Even if they did, I’d obey until out of sight. 😉

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago

Freedom and wealth aren’t the same thing. Both are of value, but the idea that because you are poor you might as well give up on your freedoms as well is morally and philosophically suspect! In fact some of the poorest people did worse our of lockdowns and were in practice much more likely to break the rules, whether willingly or not

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

The problem with this analysis is that many of the very people losing out from skewed income distributions, asset price bubbles etc, lost out even more over lockdowns. Especially people working in small businesses and the young. The people who essentially found them easy to accept, even enjoy, owned their own houses, may well have had gardens, could “work from home” (either with or without the quotation marks!) had more access to government support etc etc.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

I agree. It was the working poor hardest hit by lockdowns. Would be interesting to see poll results broken down by income level.