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Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

The courage required to write this article shouldn’t be underestimated. The cover-up culture to preserve “honour” will undoubtedly create a backlash against those who speak out, but it’s so absolutely vital that these attitudes and mores are brought into the light of day.
By contrast, the cowardice of authorities in the UK and elsewhere means they’re complicit in these acts, every bit as much as if they were driving around in the flash cars beckoning to the young girls themselves. (Yes, that’s how it often happens, i’ve seen it with my own eyes.) And where the finances came from to buy such cars, driven by young men, is never questioned or investigated either.
Hina writes: They see any of us who try to tackle this problem as siding with the white ‘enemy’.
That’s what we are to the communities that harbour these criminals. The enemy. Note: not my words, but the words of those from within the Pakistani community.
It also appears that Pakistani-British policeman have been able to infiltrate our forces, and i’ve little doubt that at least some of them may have done so as a deliberate ploy to help keep the crimes of their ethnic communities from being properly investigated. Meanwhile, the Diversity sections of police forces will pride themselves on their recruitment, totally oblivious to the insidious effects of their efforts in aiding and abetting serious abuse.
Rotherham is of course, just one of the dozens of communities across the length and breath of the UK where this has happened. I do wonder sometimes whether continually using this town as a reference has the effect of inducing a belief that it’s only a limited number of mainly working class places where the grooming takes place, and that it’s therefore relatively confined. I think when the full extent of this is brought into the open, we’ll find it happening in every single city, town and village with a Pakistani community.
Let me be clear. I’ve known plenty of Pakistanis and worked alongside them during my career. As individuals, they’re often very intelligent and easy to get along with – charming, in fact. It’s the religious and cultural sphere in which they live that causes these issues, plus the refusal of many in their communities to mix with “the enemy”. So i’m not tarring all Pakistanis with the same brush by any means, but those who don’t speak out are complicit. The threat of social or physical harm is extremely powerful though – it’s that which must be overcome. Only through articles such as these will that ever even begin to happen, and the writer demonstrates that it is possible to take that first step.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Good comment. And of course when people complain about cultural change, they are called racist. When people complain about their children being abused – they are called racist.

This country is fast heading for the Reckoning of all time

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Its not just sex abuse, there is drug dealing, money laundering, fraud, benefit fraud an tax evasion

Paul Devlin
Paul Devlin
1 year ago

Polygamy, child marriage, first cousin marriage etc

Paul Devlin
Paul Devlin
1 year ago

Polygamy, child marriage, first cousin marriage etc

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

They strain at the knat and swallow the camel so to speak.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Its not just sex abuse, there is drug dealing, money laundering, fraud, benefit fraud an tax evasion

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

They strain at the knat and swallow the camel so to speak.

Jamie Smith
Jamie Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Sixteen men including a police officer have been charged with historical sex offences against children aged between 13 and 16 West Yorkshire PC Amjad Ditta, also known as Amjad Hussain, 35, has been charged with sexual touching.He and 15 other men are charged with offences against three girls in the Halifax area, dating from 2006 to 2009.The allegations include several counts of rape, sexual assault, supplying drugs and trafficking. Mr Ditta, who was attached to West Yorkshire Police’s Protective Services Operations, was a serving officer at the time of the offence he has been accused of.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50838823

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Jamie Smith

Looks like the police don’t care who they employ. No wonder corruption is endemic in the police. When will the reckoning be.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Jamie Smith

Looks like the police don’t care who they employ. No wonder corruption is endemic in the police. When will the reckoning be.

james goater
james goater
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

That is an excellent opening comment. Among many other issues, this timely article poses the question, “Is this (prevalence of Pakistani grooming gangs) what a multicultural society is supposed to tolerate under the guise of ‘social cohesion’?” Pathetically, it seems that the current answer would be “Yes, it is”. But this has to change.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  james goater

It is not racist to charge rapists whoever they are.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  james goater

It is not racist to charge rapists whoever they are.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Good comment. And of course when people complain about cultural change, they are called racist. When people complain about their children being abused – they are called racist.

This country is fast heading for the Reckoning of all time

Jamie Smith
Jamie Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Sixteen men including a police officer have been charged with historical sex offences against children aged between 13 and 16 West Yorkshire PC Amjad Ditta, also known as Amjad Hussain, 35, has been charged with sexual touching.He and 15 other men are charged with offences against three girls in the Halifax area, dating from 2006 to 2009.The allegations include several counts of rape, sexual assault, supplying drugs and trafficking. Mr Ditta, who was attached to West Yorkshire Police’s Protective Services Operations, was a serving officer at the time of the offence he has been accused of.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50838823

james goater
james goater
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

That is an excellent opening comment. Among many other issues, this timely article poses the question, “Is this (prevalence of Pakistani grooming gangs) what a multicultural society is supposed to tolerate under the guise of ‘social cohesion’?” Pathetically, it seems that the current answer would be “Yes, it is”. But this has to change.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

The courage required to write this article shouldn’t be underestimated. The cover-up culture to preserve “honour” will undoubtedly create a backlash against those who speak out, but it’s so absolutely vital that these attitudes and mores are brought into the light of day.
By contrast, the cowardice of authorities in the UK and elsewhere means they’re complicit in these acts, every bit as much as if they were driving around in the flash cars beckoning to the young girls themselves. (Yes, that’s how it often happens, i’ve seen it with my own eyes.) And where the finances came from to buy such cars, driven by young men, is never questioned or investigated either.
Hina writes: They see any of us who try to tackle this problem as siding with the white ‘enemy’.
That’s what we are to the communities that harbour these criminals. The enemy. Note: not my words, but the words of those from within the Pakistani community.
It also appears that Pakistani-British policeman have been able to infiltrate our forces, and i’ve little doubt that at least some of them may have done so as a deliberate ploy to help keep the crimes of their ethnic communities from being properly investigated. Meanwhile, the Diversity sections of police forces will pride themselves on their recruitment, totally oblivious to the insidious effects of their efforts in aiding and abetting serious abuse.
Rotherham is of course, just one of the dozens of communities across the length and breath of the UK where this has happened. I do wonder sometimes whether continually using this town as a reference has the effect of inducing a belief that it’s only a limited number of mainly working class places where the grooming takes place, and that it’s therefore relatively confined. I think when the full extent of this is brought into the open, we’ll find it happening in every single city, town and village with a Pakistani community.
Let me be clear. I’ve known plenty of Pakistanis and worked alongside them during my career. As individuals, they’re often very intelligent and easy to get along with – charming, in fact. It’s the religious and cultural sphere in which they live that causes these issues, plus the refusal of many in their communities to mix with “the enemy”. So i’m not tarring all Pakistanis with the same brush by any means, but those who don’t speak out are complicit. The threat of social or physical harm is extremely powerful though – it’s that which must be overcome. Only through articles such as these will that ever even begin to happen, and the writer demonstrates that it is possible to take that first step.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
Richard Turpin
Richard Turpin
1 year ago

Rotherham is the tip of the iceberg. Telford, Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford, Hull, Dewsbury, Slough, Leicester, Birmingham, London, Oldham, Luton, Manchester, Burnley, Bury, Rochdale, Barnsley, Bolton, Middlesbrough to name but a few, have all had serious incidents of predominately Pakistani/Indian grooming gangs operating with relative impunity raping and abusing mainly young, vulnerable white girls. However, I suspect, in equal measure, girls within their own communities, hidden behind the veil, are also victims, possibly, even more so.
Where are the feminists and the social justice “activists”? Where is the outcry from social services? Why aren’t the identity politics ideologues out in force championing the rights of the thousands of victims subjected to horrendous abuse? They are nowhere to be seen.
Unfortunately, standing up for young white females does not sit very well with their vile, pernicious political narratives; these poor young women are an inconvenience at almost every level for the ‘captured’ warriors of the culture wars, which in itself highlights the extreme threat and dangers the trappings of identity politics and its puritanical doctrines, poses to society as a whole. It’s appalling that so many people have had to suffer at the expense of political correctness.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

The only thing our severely overstretched social services can do is remove the girls from the area. Unfortunately, many of the girls will become habitual absconders in order to return to the area which means (if they’re lucky) they end up in secure units. In effect, we’re more likely to end up imprisoning the victims. Tbf though, often it’s the only way to protect them and ensure they get the help they need.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lindsay S
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

I have seen articles on the TV where Pakistani families have been complaining about white prostitutes on the street. Rightly so but it is very hypocritical to cover up the raping of our girls.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

I have seen articles on the TV where Pakistani families have been complaining about white prostitutes on the street. Rightly so but it is very hypocritical to cover up the raping of our girls.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

I’m in Sussex, and in a comment the other day I spoke about multiple situations of this nature I have some personal link to and was accused by one commenter of making it up, because seemingly it is easier for some people to live in denial of the extent of this problem in poor communities than to be confronted with the reality that pretty much everyone in deprived communities knows at least one person who has been subjected to this kind of abuse.

Now in the cases I spoke about, only one of the perpetrators was from the Pakistani demographic, one of the others was from Sierra Leone, which is another region known to have some very serious issues with gender based violence, yet it took years of endless reports being made to police by girls and their families before that predator was removed from the streets, and is now back in the community again, having served around half of the sentence he received.

As usual, the same lessons are not learned by the authorities who are supposed to be keeping our communities and our children safe from these predatory human beings. Cultural norms do have an effect on this kind of predatory behaviour, and sticking our heads in the sand about this is only enabling these predators to access more victims. Time to grow some spines and start prioritising reality over the whims of ideologues who care more for their ideals than the lives of poor children.

Last edited 1 year ago by AL Crowe
Mirax Path
Mirax Path
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

The BBC and the mainstream papers have spent much ink on dregs like Shamima Begam and not spent even a fraction of the time on the very eloquent women survivors of this disgraceful national scandal. Why is that?

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Look at the overall composition of BBC staff members, look at the real ethos of the BBC (not the mealy mouthed claims they make about neutrality), and look at the political leanings of those who support the continued existence of it and the licence fee, and you have your answer.

It is not within their interests to challenge the ideals of their staff members and supporters.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Diversity and inclusiveness trumps all.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

And misogyny. I’m sure boys are trafficked but one wonders if the response would be different if it was predominately young males. The uncle didn’t seem to have a preference but we don’t know how common that is.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

And misogyny. I’m sure boys are trafficked but one wonders if the response would be different if it was predominately young males. The uncle didn’t seem to have a preference but we don’t know how common that is.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Because of institutional anti-white racism.

John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

You are wrong : anti-white racism is an oxymoron. It doesn’t exist.

Like antipathy between Africans and Asians. That’s not racism either.

John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Perhaps the sarcasm didn’t come across? My bad.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

It came across just fine – some people are concrete thinkers, humour confuses them

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

It can be quite difficult to tell on the printed page, seeing as there really are some disgusting woke scum who claim that white people can’t be victims of racism. At any rate, I for one appreciate John Solomon taking the trouble to make it clear that he isn’t one of those our souls.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I wish people wouldn’t use “woke’ as a catch all euphamism for things they are unable to actually articulate, because of laziness or lack of intellect or both. It’s become a meaningless put down word for anything the user dislikes.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I wish people wouldn’t use “woke’ as a catch all euphamism for things they are unable to actually articulate, because of laziness or lack of intellect or both. It’s become a meaningless put down word for anything the user dislikes.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

It can be quite difficult to tell on the printed page, seeing as there really are some disgusting woke scum who claim that white people can’t be victims of racism. At any rate, I for one appreciate John Solomon taking the trouble to make it clear that he isn’t one of those our souls.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Is it our country or theirs? We know we should be friendly to legal immigrants but speaking against the natural race of this country doesn’t help for cohesion. The BBC are too far gone now to bother to critisise them.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

It came across just fine – some people are concrete thinkers, humour confuses them

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Is it our country or theirs? We know we should be friendly to legal immigrants but speaking against the natural race of this country doesn’t help for cohesion. The BBC are too far gone now to bother to critisise them.

John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Perhaps the sarcasm didn’t come across? My bad.

John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

You are wrong : anti-white racism is an oxymoron. It doesn’t exist.

Like antipathy between Africans and Asians. That’s not racism either.

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Money. The narrative of Islamophobia generates revenues. There are more than 50 muslim countries in the world to sell their programmes to.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Well that’s the BBC isn’t it. There are better newscasters like GB News for instance.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Because they’re women.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Look at the overall composition of BBC staff members, look at the real ethos of the BBC (not the mealy mouthed claims they make about neutrality), and look at the political leanings of those who support the continued existence of it and the licence fee, and you have your answer.

It is not within their interests to challenge the ideals of their staff members and supporters.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Diversity and inclusiveness trumps all.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Because of institutional anti-white racism.

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Money. The narrative of Islamophobia generates revenues. There are more than 50 muslim countries in the world to sell their programmes to.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Well that’s the BBC isn’t it. There are better newscasters like GB News for instance.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Mirax Path

Because they’re women.

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

There can be too much ‘diversity’

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

I accused you of making it up. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you taking the piss before. Im pretty sure your posts are plastic. I can’t prove that. But I can call you out. My mum does come from a council house. You don’t sound like one of me. ‘Whims of idealogues’….. Really. Street.
The Rotherham scandal is disgraceful, but if anyone cared about these girls in the first place this wouldn’t have happened. Yes this is a problem. My problem is people using working class girls they wouldn’t normally think twice about, to have a good rant about races of people they don’t like. And there’s plenty of those on here. And that’s what I think your game is. Thats what I don’t like. Apparently lindsay above thinks imprisoning these girls is the only way to protect them, how. Insane.
Anyway. I’ll leave you to it. Now I’ve made myself clear. I shall leave you alone in future, I won’t bother you again.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

So because I speak like someone who has multiple degrees (and I do have multiple degrees), that must mean I cannot be from a deprived area, and cannot have also grown up as a recipient of free school meals raised by a single parent?

I am disabled, yes, I am well educated, but no amount of education can undo my disability, thus I remain living in a poor area, because nice areas don’t tend to like housing people who rely on disability benefits to top up their part time wages, and tend to be well beyond the price range of those like me.

I do enjoy having random strangers assume I am racist simply because my language use doesn’t fit their own very narrow stereotypes of who does and doesn’t live in deprived areas.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Don’t you mean that that you “don’t” enjoy random strangers….? By the way you sound awfullu defensive.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Don’t you mean that that you “don’t” enjoy random strangers….? By the way you sound awfullu defensive.

Howard Gleave
Howard Gleave
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You’ve made yourself only too clear. What a neat reversal to blame mass rape of “white enemy” working class girls on people who should have “cared” for these girls. The responsibility for these rapes lies fairly and squarely with the, Pakistani for the most part, rapists, and those that cover for them. I’m “calling you out” (yuk) for moral relativism.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Howard Gleave

You assume I have no experience of anything like this and no reason to care. You go with what you like. Call me what you like. Like I say. I’m done.
I’d like to know how many years you have to spend living on a university campus to get ‘multiple degrees’ I have to say.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Howard Gleave

You assume I have no experience of anything like this and no reason to care. You go with what you like. Call me what you like. Like I say. I’m done.
I’d like to know how many years you have to spend living on a university campus to get ‘multiple degrees’ I have to say.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

I would actually prefer the perpetrators to be deported or imprisoned however they have rights too and the wheels of justice is slow. From experience of working in residential childcare, I know that many of these girls DO NOT want to be taken out of area and WILL continually run away to return to area, which results in them being placed under DoLs orders (deprivation of liberty) which often means being placed in secure units, which I think we all agree is better than them returning to their abusers to be trafficked out of our reach. Do you disagree?

Last edited 1 year ago by Lindsay S
B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

So, because the ‘wheels of justice’ are failing your alternative is to take these girls, who have already suffered, away from friends, families and their community and when they try and go back home you lock them in a secure unit. Deprive them of their liberty. At a time when they should be out starting their life?
Im not sure I have any words.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

It’s not “my” alternative. What is your alternative? You’re very critical of the system, however you don’t offer any constructive solutions. How do you suggest we protect girls, that in many cases, do not want protection? Do not think that they need it and will go to extreme lengths to avoid it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lindsay S
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

I’ve described an alternative above. I feel sure if it was presented as a way out of a life of poverty and abuse the majority would go for it. Whether there would be the money available for these social services is another matter.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

I’ve described an alternative above. I feel sure if it was presented as a way out of a life of poverty and abuse the majority would go for it. Whether there would be the money available for these social services is another matter.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Families don’t seem to care that much to leave them vulnerable in the streets. A compromise would be a secure unit where they can be kept an eye on.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

I see you are all still going.
First. They would not be vulnerable in the street if we fixed the wheels of justice, if the street isn’t safe that is not their fault. Should we lock our children inside? If you knew anything about the Rotherham scandal you would know one of the girls fathers took it up with the police in the first place.
Next. Equating protection and prison in this way for victims of crime is something I find a very strange concept. You obviously see no value in the girls links to their communities, which I think shows you do not understand or value the community they come from.
Next. Surely it would be better to spend the time money and people and facilities on locking up the criminals not the victims.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Just wharehousing people without the opportunity for them to change their lives, is absurd.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

I see you are all still going.
First. They would not be vulnerable in the street if we fixed the wheels of justice, if the street isn’t safe that is not their fault. Should we lock our children inside? If you knew anything about the Rotherham scandal you would know one of the girls fathers took it up with the police in the first place.
Next. Equating protection and prison in this way for victims of crime is something I find a very strange concept. You obviously see no value in the girls links to their communities, which I think shows you do not understand or value the community they come from.
Next. Surely it would be better to spend the time money and people and facilities on locking up the criminals not the victims.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Just wharehousing people without the opportunity for them to change their lives, is absurd.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

It’s not “my” alternative. What is your alternative? You’re very critical of the system, however you don’t offer any constructive solutions. How do you suggest we protect girls, that in many cases, do not want protection? Do not think that they need it and will go to extreme lengths to avoid it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lindsay S
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Families don’t seem to care that much to leave them vulnerable in the streets. A compromise would be a secure unit where they can be kept an eye on.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Are the wheels of justice even running on this matter let alone slow?

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

The same could be asked of any r@pe case. Early on they’re notoriously difficult to prove so little is done until you have a large number of people saying the same thing and that can take years because so many feel they can’t say anything or there is no point. Then there is police force themselves. The last inquiries into child deaths (Star and Arthur) found the police to be at fault when it came to multi agency sharing of information (basically they didn’t). The police seem to be more adept at following up on social media hate crimes than actual crimes.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

The same could be asked of any r@pe case. Early on they’re notoriously difficult to prove so little is done until you have a large number of people saying the same thing and that can take years because so many feel they can’t say anything or there is no point. Then there is police force themselves. The last inquiries into child deaths (Star and Arthur) found the police to be at fault when it came to multi agency sharing of information (basically they didn’t). The police seem to be more adept at following up on social media hate crimes than actual crimes.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Are there only two alternatives. Can’t these girls be taught self-empowerment and self-worth which is obviously lacking. If a residence could be set up to house them and educate them to have self-respect along with job training.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

So, because the ‘wheels of justice’ are failing your alternative is to take these girls, who have already suffered, away from friends, families and their community and when they try and go back home you lock them in a secure unit. Deprive them of their liberty. At a time when they should be out starting their life?
Im not sure I have any words.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Are the wheels of justice even running on this matter let alone slow?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Are there only two alternatives. Can’t these girls be taught self-empowerment and self-worth which is obviously lacking. If a residence could be set up to house them and educate them to have self-respect along with job training.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

So because I speak like someone who has multiple degrees (and I do have multiple degrees), that must mean I cannot be from a deprived area, and cannot have also grown up as a recipient of free school meals raised by a single parent?

I am disabled, yes, I am well educated, but no amount of education can undo my disability, thus I remain living in a poor area, because nice areas don’t tend to like housing people who rely on disability benefits to top up their part time wages, and tend to be well beyond the price range of those like me.

I do enjoy having random strangers assume I am racist simply because my language use doesn’t fit their own very narrow stereotypes of who does and doesn’t live in deprived areas.

Howard Gleave
Howard Gleave
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You’ve made yourself only too clear. What a neat reversal to blame mass rape of “white enemy” working class girls on people who should have “cared” for these girls. The responsibility for these rapes lies fairly and squarely with the, Pakistani for the most part, rapists, and those that cover for them. I’m “calling you out” (yuk) for moral relativism.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

I would actually prefer the perpetrators to be deported or imprisoned however they have rights too and the wheels of justice is slow. From experience of working in residential childcare, I know that many of these girls DO NOT want to be taken out of area and WILL continually run away to return to area, which results in them being placed under DoLs orders (deprivation of liberty) which often means being placed in secure units, which I think we all agree is better than them returning to their abusers to be trafficked out of our reach. Do you disagree?

Last edited 1 year ago by Lindsay S
Mirax Path
Mirax Path
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

The BBC and the mainstream papers have spent much ink on dregs like Shamima Begam and not spent even a fraction of the time on the very eloquent women survivors of this disgraceful national scandal. Why is that?

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

There can be too much ‘diversity’

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

I accused you of making it up. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you taking the piss before. Im pretty sure your posts are plastic. I can’t prove that. But I can call you out. My mum does come from a council house. You don’t sound like one of me. ‘Whims of idealogues’….. Really. Street.
The Rotherham scandal is disgraceful, but if anyone cared about these girls in the first place this wouldn’t have happened. Yes this is a problem. My problem is people using working class girls they wouldn’t normally think twice about, to have a good rant about races of people they don’t like. And there’s plenty of those on here. And that’s what I think your game is. Thats what I don’t like. Apparently lindsay above thinks imprisoning these girls is the only way to protect them, how. Insane.
Anyway. I’ll leave you to it. Now I’ve made myself clear. I shall leave you alone in future, I won’t bother you again.

Mirax Path
Mirax Path
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

There was a triggernometry interview just last night with one survivor, Samantha Smith, of Telford that was truly inspiring. Very clear and articulate summary of the issue and the establishment’s weaknesses. Also chilling to realise that it is still ongoing and not quite historical.
https://youtu.be/zRuK5wPd_Fc

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

Obvious solution is to stop mass imigration, especially from shit countries like Pakistan.
I fail to see how they benefit uk, apart from curry houses.
But none of the political parties likely to form governments is proposing anything to stop these useless, low IQ savages from settling in the West.

james goater
james goater
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew F

The kind of people you describe always misconstrue the term “multicultural society”, blithely assuming that upon resettling in the UK, they can continue with exactly the same cultural practices they “enjoyed” in their country of origin. Sadly, the prevalence of PC/woke attitudes in this country, does little or nothing to disabuse them of that misconception. Thus the horrors proliferate.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  james goater

I watch CNN and there is a female Iranian British reporter who wears a higab and reports on the oppression of women in iran. she pisses me off whenever I see her. She’s rather smug, but apart from that it seems so hypocritical to wear a scarf that signifys submission to the brutal patriachy that she’s, apparently, opposed to. It’s seems so cowardly. Bravery is what’s needed to fight the sordid abuses and moral blackmail that Islam inflicts around the world.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  james goater

I watch CNN and there is a female Iranian British reporter who wears a higab and reports on the oppression of women in iran. she pisses me off whenever I see her. She’s rather smug, but apart from that it seems so hypocritical to wear a scarf that signifys submission to the brutal patriachy that she’s, apparently, opposed to. It’s seems so cowardly. Bravery is what’s needed to fight the sordid abuses and moral blackmail that Islam inflicts around the world.

james goater
james goater
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew F

The kind of people you describe always misconstrue the term “multicultural society”, blithely assuming that upon resettling in the UK, they can continue with exactly the same cultural practices they “enjoyed” in their country of origin. Sadly, the prevalence of PC/woke attitudes in this country, does little or nothing to disabuse them of that misconception. Thus the horrors proliferate.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

Astonishingly you should add Oxford to that list!

Paul T
Paul T
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

Why blame feminists for rapes that only-ever men are committing?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul T

EXACTLY!!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul T

EXACTLY!!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

The tories have had plenty of time to sort it out but have done nothing.

Sam L
Sam L
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

“have all had serious incidents of predominately Pakistani/Indian grooming gangs”. Clubbing British Indians with British Pakistanis is misleading and very BBC like tactic. BBC calls these criminals as vague ‘British Asians’ in headlines in order to hide their Pakistani muslim identity. Have you seen instances of a British-Indian/British-Hindu involved in grooming gangs ? None as far as i know. If anything, there are instances of Hindu girls themselves being victims of Pakistani grooming gangs. Pakistani grooming gangs also tend to be Islamist gangs and for their mindset any non-muslim young girl is a fair game since they come from ‘enemy group’.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Sam L

Well said: Indian Hindus must and should not be confused with muslims and Pakistanis.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

So who are the men who rape the hundreds of women in india?

Last edited 1 year ago by Clare Knight
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

So who are the men who rape the hundreds of women in india?

Last edited 1 year ago by Clare Knight
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Sam L

Well said: Indian Hindus must and should not be confused with muslims and Pakistanis.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

The only thing our severely overstretched social services can do is remove the girls from the area. Unfortunately, many of the girls will become habitual absconders in order to return to the area which means (if they’re lucky) they end up in secure units. In effect, we’re more likely to end up imprisoning the victims. Tbf though, often it’s the only way to protect them and ensure they get the help they need.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lindsay S
AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

I’m in Sussex, and in a comment the other day I spoke about multiple situations of this nature I have some personal link to and was accused by one commenter of making it up, because seemingly it is easier for some people to live in denial of the extent of this problem in poor communities than to be confronted with the reality that pretty much everyone in deprived communities knows at least one person who has been subjected to this kind of abuse.

Now in the cases I spoke about, only one of the perpetrators was from the Pakistani demographic, one of the others was from Sierra Leone, which is another region known to have some very serious issues with gender based violence, yet it took years of endless reports being made to police by girls and their families before that predator was removed from the streets, and is now back in the community again, having served around half of the sentence he received.

As usual, the same lessons are not learned by the authorities who are supposed to be keeping our communities and our children safe from these predatory human beings. Cultural norms do have an effect on this kind of predatory behaviour, and sticking our heads in the sand about this is only enabling these predators to access more victims. Time to grow some spines and start prioritising reality over the whims of ideologues who care more for their ideals than the lives of poor children.

Last edited 1 year ago by AL Crowe
Mirax Path
Mirax Path
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

There was a triggernometry interview just last night with one survivor, Samantha Smith, of Telford that was truly inspiring. Very clear and articulate summary of the issue and the establishment’s weaknesses. Also chilling to realise that it is still ongoing and not quite historical.
https://youtu.be/zRuK5wPd_Fc

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

Obvious solution is to stop mass imigration, especially from shit countries like Pakistan.
I fail to see how they benefit uk, apart from curry houses.
But none of the political parties likely to form governments is proposing anything to stop these useless, low IQ savages from settling in the West.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

Astonishingly you should add Oxford to that list!

Paul T
Paul T
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

Why blame feminists for rapes that only-ever men are committing?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

The tories have had plenty of time to sort it out but have done nothing.

Sam L
Sam L
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Turpin

“have all had serious incidents of predominately Pakistani/Indian grooming gangs”. Clubbing British Indians with British Pakistanis is misleading and very BBC like tactic. BBC calls these criminals as vague ‘British Asians’ in headlines in order to hide their Pakistani muslim identity. Have you seen instances of a British-Indian/British-Hindu involved in grooming gangs ? None as far as i know. If anything, there are instances of Hindu girls themselves being victims of Pakistani grooming gangs. Pakistani grooming gangs also tend to be Islamist gangs and for their mindset any non-muslim young girl is a fair game since they come from ‘enemy group’.

Richard Turpin
Richard Turpin
1 year ago

Rotherham is the tip of the iceberg. Telford, Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford, Hull, Dewsbury, Slough, Leicester, Birmingham, London, Oldham, Luton, Manchester, Burnley, Bury, Rochdale, Barnsley, Bolton, Middlesbrough to name but a few, have all had serious incidents of predominately Pakistani/Indian grooming gangs operating with relative impunity raping and abusing mainly young, vulnerable white girls. However, I suspect, in equal measure, girls within their own communities, hidden behind the veil, are also victims, possibly, even more so.
Where are the feminists and the social justice “activists”? Where is the outcry from social services? Why aren’t the identity politics ideologues out in force championing the rights of the thousands of victims subjected to horrendous abuse? They are nowhere to be seen.
Unfortunately, standing up for young white females does not sit very well with their vile, pernicious political narratives; these poor young women are an inconvenience at almost every level for the ‘captured’ warriors of the culture wars, which in itself highlights the extreme threat and dangers the trappings of identity politics and its puritanical doctrines, poses to society as a whole. It’s appalling that so many people have had to suffer at the expense of political correctness.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

I’m much more concerned by the willingness of police and public authorities to enable this activity. It’s just another of the ways that our governing class has been utterly corrupted by relativism.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

In one of the cases in my area I have referenced here and previously in comments, a former mayor of the town involved was implicated in forging documents and lying about the legal status of the predator he rented property to, and for allowing the sexual exploitation of young girls to happen there.

This pattern is repeated across the country, and not just in the “multicultural” abuse rings, the same thing has happened in the care system of this country for decades, where those charged with protecting children have actively enabled abuse, and even been the abusers in some examples. Our government provisions for child protection are like so many other things in our crumbling society not fit for purpose, and in dire need of tangible reform, not more lessons will be learned rhetoric.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

In one of the cases in my area I have referenced here and previously in comments, a former mayor of the town involved was implicated in forging documents and lying about the legal status of the predator he rented property to, and for allowing the sexual exploitation of young girls to happen there.

This pattern is repeated across the country, and not just in the “multicultural” abuse rings, the same thing has happened in the care system of this country for decades, where those charged with protecting children have actively enabled abuse, and even been the abusers in some examples. Our government provisions for child protection are like so many other things in our crumbling society not fit for purpose, and in dire need of tangible reform, not more lessons will be learned rhetoric.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

I’m much more concerned by the willingness of police and public authorities to enable this activity. It’s just another of the ways that our governing class has been utterly corrupted by relativism.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

All of this article fills me with disgust, but the worst point is this:

“Unfortunately, the Pakistani community is still not ready to talk about CSA — a fact recognised by those few British Pakistanis who have spoken out against it. Shame and honour codes hold too much power…”

It’s “honour” is it, that makes it possible for these perverts to carry on at almost no risk to themselves?

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

The article links to an article quoting a so-called ‘child rights activist’ who claims 550000 children are sexually abused in Pakistan every year and also claims 1 billion children are abused globally. He provides no evidence for either claim. The entire article is hearsay. No doubt child sexual abuse occurs among Pakistanis but no evidence is provided to show its occurrence relative to other races. Her ‘evidence’ consists entirely of pulling at heartstrings and pandering to prejudices against Muslims and Pakistanis.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

I’m guessing you work in child “protection” somewhere like Rotherham.

Aidan Trimble
Aidan Trimble
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

What on earth are you on about ? Are you wilfully ignorant or is it your default setting ? This vile abuse has been documented in great detail. It’s nothing to do with prejudices against minority groups you fool.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Aidan Trimble

He really is disgusting isn’t he.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I’m ‘disgusting’ for asking for evidence for her claims?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Do your own reasearch. Become informed.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Do your own reasearch. Become informed.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I’m ‘disgusting’ for asking for evidence for her claims?

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Aidan Trimble

I am referring to her figure of 550,000 children abused annually in Pakistan. Click on the links she provides, they provide no evidence to back it up.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Aidan Trimble

Right on!!

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Aidan Trimble

He really is disgusting isn’t he.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Aidan Trimble

I am referring to her figure of 550,000 children abused annually in Pakistan. Click on the links she provides, they provide no evidence to back it up.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Aidan Trimble

Right on!!

james goater
james goater
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

To paraphrase: I regret that I have only one down vote to give you.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  james goater

Why? Is it wrong to ask for evidence for her claims?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Do your own research if you’re genuinely interested in facts and truth, but you seem more interested in the fight.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Do your own research if you’re genuinely interested in facts and truth, but you seem more interested in the fight.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  james goater

Why? Is it wrong to ask for evidence for her claims?

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

To refute the article successfully you need to provide some evidence against it.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Vijay Kant

I have no basis on which to refute her claims. Just as she has provided no basis on which to establish them. She’s relying on pulling at heartstrings and on prejudice against Muslims and Pakistanis to get a response, and it has worked.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

You could educate yourself and then engage in informed discourse instead of just trying to invalidate comments with accusations of racism, which is so easy to do without actually saying anything intelligent.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

You could educate yourself and then engage in informed discourse instead of just trying to invalidate comments with accusations of racism, which is so easy to do without actually saying anything intelligent.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Vijay Kant

Exactly!

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Vijay Kant

I have no basis on which to refute her claims. Just as she has provided no basis on which to establish them. She’s relying on pulling at heartstrings and on prejudice against Muslims and Pakistanis to get a response, and it has worked.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Vijay Kant

Exactly!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Nah.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

I’m guessing you work in child “protection” somewhere like Rotherham.

Aidan Trimble
Aidan Trimble
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

What on earth are you on about ? Are you wilfully ignorant or is it your default setting ? This vile abuse has been documented in great detail. It’s nothing to do with prejudices against minority groups you fool.

james goater
james goater
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

To paraphrase: I regret that I have only one down vote to give you.

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

To refute the article successfully you need to provide some evidence against it.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Nah.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

It’s the honour thing when it occures in families.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

The article links to an article quoting a so-called ‘child rights activist’ who claims 550000 children are sexually abused in Pakistan every year and also claims 1 billion children are abused globally. He provides no evidence for either claim. The entire article is hearsay. No doubt child sexual abuse occurs among Pakistanis but no evidence is provided to show its occurrence relative to other races. Her ‘evidence’ consists entirely of pulling at heartstrings and pandering to prejudices against Muslims and Pakistanis.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

It’s the honour thing when it occures in families.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

All of this article fills me with disgust, but the worst point is this:

“Unfortunately, the Pakistani community is still not ready to talk about CSA — a fact recognised by those few British Pakistanis who have spoken out against it. Shame and honour codes hold too much power…”

It’s “honour” is it, that makes it possible for these perverts to carry on at almost no risk to themselves?

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Stephen Quilley
Stephen Quilley
1 year ago

Great article – honest and brave. Question: At what point is it permissible for countries to adopt selective immigration policies? The drivers of social-cohesion/fragmentation and of tribalism/integration are pretty clear. If you wanted to design a system that would maximize economic gains, minimize harms and foster integration, then unskilled, rural, working class muslim immigration from Pakistan would be bottom of the list, along with Albanians and Afghans. Ukrainians, Syriac and African Christians and skilled Indian Sikhs/Hindus might move closer to the top. On the other hand, if human rights and responding to need was the primary consideration, then Pakistani Muslims (and especially women) and refugees from Afghanistan might move closer to the top. The other obvious question is who gets to decide? Highly paid, highly educated members of the social policy literati who tend not to live in places like Rotherham and Telford, but Chorlton/Didsbury in Manchester or probably 250 miles south in Islington; or working class people in old mill towns who are routinely cast as the villains in the Brexit/white supremacy/decolonization narrative that has become the default survey course in most university humanities and social science programmes. Should immigration be designed primarily to benefit the country, or to respond to human need.These are legitimate questions which the political class and the mainstream media both seem intent on avoiding. We do need a debate.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago

An excellent analysis of the question as to whom we prioritise in out immigration policy. I think we need to be hard headed about prioritising those that will benefit the UK and those that will integrate best.

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

I upvoted you and Stephen but it is still skirting the main issue.
Even if Indians have higher IQ and are hard working, do we really want to commit ethic and cultural suicide by allowing mass immigration?
Just quick qoogle search would show that India is not without serious ethic problems.
As to Africans in general, please explain how low IQ, violent people would benefit uk?
We already see results on streets of London, daily.

Stephen Quilley
Stephen Quilley
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew F

In general, I agree, Although not with the low IQ piece. Nigerians and Kenyans tend to have much better economic success than media whites in the US and the UK – and for the same reasons as Asians – family cohesion + the case of Africans, Christianity. Most of what you see on the streets of London ethnically quite specific – as it is in Sweden. So the issue relates to culture and religion. I have no problem with secular universalists prioritizing some sense of universal personhood and human rights – as long as they are absolutely unflinching and honest about the difficulties and consequences; and as long as they also enforce policies to ensure that the spatial/geographical burden lands disproportionately on the elite groups that push these policies. Somehow I doubt that when push comes to shove, they will accept these costs. However, if Judeo-Christianity and a virtue-ethical culture is the key to social cohesion – and I believe it is – then conservative responses to immigration (reduction/selection) are only legitimate / coherent to the extent that those same conservatives go back to church, take their kids (and have more kids)… and push Christian (or Jewish) values in the warp and weft of the culture. There is no materialist/market-liberal/libertarian perspective that can legitimately critique immigration. And if Christianity is the key to a culture at peace- then I have much more in common with a Nigerian catholic than I do with either a secular, materialist, Neo-liberal pseudo conservative, a woke-liberal consumer-individualist or a secular , working class nationalist/populist. There is a good case to be made for radically restriction/selection.. but for my money, it’s about Christendom and if it doesn’t start from the Imago Dei – the conviction in Genesis that we are created in the image of God, then it’s pointless. AOC, Richard Spencer , Dave Rubin and the Koch Foundation are all on the same team as far as I’m concerned.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

I wonder about the economic success of Nigerians. The men seem to have a reputation for scaming elderly women out of their life savings.

Last edited 1 year ago by Clare Knight
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

I wonder about the economic success of Nigerians. The men seem to have a reputation for scaming elderly women out of their life savings.

Last edited 1 year ago by Clare Knight
Stephen Quilley
Stephen Quilley
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew F

In general, I agree, Although not with the low IQ piece. Nigerians and Kenyans tend to have much better economic success than media whites in the US and the UK – and for the same reasons as Asians – family cohesion + the case of Africans, Christianity. Most of what you see on the streets of London ethnically quite specific – as it is in Sweden. So the issue relates to culture and religion. I have no problem with secular universalists prioritizing some sense of universal personhood and human rights – as long as they are absolutely unflinching and honest about the difficulties and consequences; and as long as they also enforce policies to ensure that the spatial/geographical burden lands disproportionately on the elite groups that push these policies. Somehow I doubt that when push comes to shove, they will accept these costs. However, if Judeo-Christianity and a virtue-ethical culture is the key to social cohesion – and I believe it is – then conservative responses to immigration (reduction/selection) are only legitimate / coherent to the extent that those same conservatives go back to church, take their kids (and have more kids)… and push Christian (or Jewish) values in the warp and weft of the culture. There is no materialist/market-liberal/libertarian perspective that can legitimately critique immigration. And if Christianity is the key to a culture at peace- then I have much more in common with a Nigerian catholic than I do with either a secular, materialist, Neo-liberal pseudo conservative, a woke-liberal consumer-individualist or a secular , working class nationalist/populist. There is a good case to be made for radically restriction/selection.. but for my money, it’s about Christendom and if it doesn’t start from the Imago Dei – the conviction in Genesis that we are created in the image of God, then it’s pointless. AOC, Richard Spencer , Dave Rubin and the Koch Foundation are all on the same team as far as I’m concerned.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Australia does that and doesn’t have those kinds of problems.

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

I upvoted you and Stephen but it is still skirting the main issue.
Even if Indians have higher IQ and are hard working, do we really want to commit ethic and cultural suicide by allowing mass immigration?
Just quick qoogle search would show that India is not without serious ethic problems.
As to Africans in general, please explain how low IQ, violent people would benefit uk?
We already see results on streets of London, daily.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Australia does that and doesn’t have those kinds of problems.

Don Gaughan
Don Gaughan
1 year ago

Tribal loyalty and tribal preference is a universal human drive , as well as the typical drive to protect the community’s children from harm.This insightful article reveals much about the destructive effects of the liberal lefts neuroritic obsessive self destructive drive and efforts to impose its racist anti racist solely on one targeted color of western civilisation.
Interesting to note that individual and tribal reputation protection trumps child protection in the Pakistani tribe coming to live in the relatively ptosperous land of ” the enemy” , whose tribal loyalty and preference is demonised and outlawed as racist by the liberal left.
When even the police and authorities fail to act to protect children from such widespread systemic sexual violence because of fear of being accused of racism, the destructive damaging effects of the lefts neurotic obsession with race has reached apocalyptic levels of social destruction and dysfunction.
We know the problem and who.Now, we need to how to address it and act .

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago

I don’t think we need a debate. What we need is to stop a self-appointed liberal elite class from importing foreigners as semi-slaves, while paying our homegrown working class kids to sit idle, admiring their pointless degrees and student loan bills.

What a waste of life.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Huge generalizations.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Huge generalizations.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago

An excellent analysis of the question as to whom we prioritise in out immigration policy. I think we need to be hard headed about prioritising those that will benefit the UK and those that will integrate best.

Don Gaughan
Don Gaughan
1 year ago

Tribal loyalty and tribal preference is a universal human drive , as well as the typical drive to protect the community’s children from harm.This insightful article reveals much about the destructive effects of the liberal lefts neuroritic obsessive self destructive drive and efforts to impose its racist anti racist solely on one targeted color of western civilisation.
Interesting to note that individual and tribal reputation protection trumps child protection in the Pakistani tribe coming to live in the relatively ptosperous land of ” the enemy” , whose tribal loyalty and preference is demonised and outlawed as racist by the liberal left.
When even the police and authorities fail to act to protect children from such widespread systemic sexual violence because of fear of being accused of racism, the destructive damaging effects of the lefts neurotic obsession with race has reached apocalyptic levels of social destruction and dysfunction.
We know the problem and who.Now, we need to how to address it and act .

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago

I don’t think we need a debate. What we need is to stop a self-appointed liberal elite class from importing foreigners as semi-slaves, while paying our homegrown working class kids to sit idle, admiring their pointless degrees and student loan bills.

What a waste of life.

Stephen Quilley
Stephen Quilley
1 year ago

Great article – honest and brave. Question: At what point is it permissible for countries to adopt selective immigration policies? The drivers of social-cohesion/fragmentation and of tribalism/integration are pretty clear. If you wanted to design a system that would maximize economic gains, minimize harms and foster integration, then unskilled, rural, working class muslim immigration from Pakistan would be bottom of the list, along with Albanians and Afghans. Ukrainians, Syriac and African Christians and skilled Indian Sikhs/Hindus might move closer to the top. On the other hand, if human rights and responding to need was the primary consideration, then Pakistani Muslims (and especially women) and refugees from Afghanistan might move closer to the top. The other obvious question is who gets to decide? Highly paid, highly educated members of the social policy literati who tend not to live in places like Rotherham and Telford, but Chorlton/Didsbury in Manchester or probably 250 miles south in Islington; or working class people in old mill towns who are routinely cast as the villains in the Brexit/white supremacy/decolonization narrative that has become the default survey course in most university humanities and social science programmes. Should immigration be designed primarily to benefit the country, or to respond to human need.These are legitimate questions which the political class and the mainstream media both seem intent on avoiding. We do need a debate.

Fraser Speirs
Fraser Speirs
1 year ago

I’m a former teacher. The day that broke me was when I realised that it was now an established part of professional safeguarding practice to teach young girls to hide a spoon in their underwear in order to set off the metal detector at the airport when they are being taken out of the UK for forced marriage or an FGM “ceremony”.

Setting off the metal detector gives the girl an opportunity to ask for a private search, where she can safely alert the authorities as to what is happening.

I’m not ashamed to say I cried in front of my colleagues that day.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Fraser Speirs

Thank you for sharing that with us.
Cynic that I am, I am simply dumbfounded!

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Fraser Speirs

Nothing to be ashamed of.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Fraser Speirs

Thank you for sharing that with us.
Cynic that I am, I am simply dumbfounded!

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Fraser Speirs

Nothing to be ashamed of.

Fraser Speirs
Fraser Speirs
1 year ago

I’m a former teacher. The day that broke me was when I realised that it was now an established part of professional safeguarding practice to teach young girls to hide a spoon in their underwear in order to set off the metal detector at the airport when they are being taken out of the UK for forced marriage or an FGM “ceremony”.

Setting off the metal detector gives the girl an opportunity to ask for a private search, where she can safely alert the authorities as to what is happening.

I’m not ashamed to say I cried in front of my colleagues that day.

Michael Drucker
Michael Drucker
1 year ago

This is a very powerful and brave article. The unheard voices it contains are exactly what Unherd should be for.
I would appreciate a little explanitory reader comment if possible. I am unclear about one detail in the article: The figure of 12 chldren per day suffering abuse in Pakistan. Every single case is an utter horror, but statistically the number seems very low. With some quick googling comparing CSA numbers in UK (65 per day) to population. The number might be expected to be in region of 240.
Is this number illustrating the incredibly low level of reporting in Pakistan as compared to UK?

Nell Clover
Nell Clover
1 year ago

The beginning of the article refers to NGO estimates of 500,000 per year based on the rate of support provided. Pakistan sees at least 1 child raped every single minute.

The underlying rate could be an order of magnitude higher. It could be 12 children per minute.

12 children per minute. This is more than 100 times the rate of abuse in Western countries.

How do cultural relativists explain this, or is it simply diversity?

Last edited 1 year ago by Nell Clover
Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Nell Clover

I think pretty much everyone knows that countries are differentially placed on development scales – economic, cultural, political etc and that ‘sins of humanity’ relate to these placings. So it is not so much the case, for example, that Pakistani culture promotes or allows for CA more than British culture – but that Pakistan is behind Britain on several development metrics and so can reliably be expected to have more CA, graft, brutality etc – just as the UK did 150 years ago. So it is not national culture per se that is the problem, but developmental standard achieved. It might appear that these differences are vast and sometimes damning, but the timescales involved are nothing within the grand history of Sapiens, and at various points many Asian countries, were far ahead of Europeans – the latter stole a march on the former by balancing religion with enlightenment values.

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

I think it is absolutely national and religious culture that’s the problem.
Christian societies, and their descendant are the only societies to even express a belief in the equality of men and women (even though this has often only been honored in the breach). It’s not even an idea in most all Islamic, Asian, or African cultures, unless it has been imported from the west.

Last edited 1 year ago by Snapper AG
Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Are you sure? Equality of sexes is a fairly recent development even in Western/Christian societies.

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Again practice may have deviated from the theology, but there is a reason that early converts to the Church were heavily weighted towards women. Christianity always gave women far higher status than the Greeks or Romans, or any of the other Classical social constructs.
Just see St. Paul in Galatians:

 26 For you are all the children of God by faith, in Christ Jesus.  27 For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ.  28 There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12
I don’t disagree that Christianity has a good, often better expression of equality than many other belief systems (excepting perhaps, Baha’i, Judaism, Buddhism, Humanism), I just say that there is a lot more going on; and it’s a little obnoxious to link a terrible thing such as CA to any particular religion. Also glass houses….

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Child abuse appears in every society. That doesn’t change the fact that some cultural/religious views make it more likely. Do you think the fact that the founder of Islam married a 9 year old, and the religion allows men multiple wives, and old men to take very young wives, might not contribute to more abuse?
You can see the same sort of thing in India and China where the cultural/religious preference for males leads to huge numbers of sex-selective abortions, and a huge sex disparity.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Your post starts “ Child abuse”.

The Ancient Greeks were rather tolerant in this regard, although strict conventions did apply as to the conduct of the ‘Erastes’ and the ‘Eromenos*.
Perhaps you should read Keneth Dover’s seminal work of 1978,
“Greek Homosexuality “?

(*The Lock & the Key.)

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago

The Greeks abd Romans were morally appalling, including the Greeks love of pedophilia. Christianity displacing their moral systems was one of the greatest improvements in world history.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Worshipping any kind of God is the source of many, many problems. That’s an understatement.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Worshipping any kind of God is the source of many, many problems. That’s an understatement.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

But aren’t we supposed to be evolving?

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago

The Greeks abd Romans were morally appalling, including the Greeks love of pedophilia. Christianity displacing their moral systems was one of the greatest improvements in world history.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

But aren’t we supposed to be evolving?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Netflix has a documentary called ‘In the name of God’ about a sex slave cult in Korea. It’s mind boggling, a must see.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Your post starts “ Child abuse”.

The Ancient Greeks were rather tolerant in this regard, although strict conventions did apply as to the conduct of the ‘Erastes’ and the ‘Eromenos*.
Perhaps you should read Keneth Dover’s seminal work of 1978,
“Greek Homosexuality “?

(*The Lock & the Key.)

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Netflix has a documentary called ‘In the name of God’ about a sex slave cult in Korea. It’s mind boggling, a must see.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Of all the gender equality/identity issues one would think it’s about time that god became a he/she or an it/they. That would go a long way towards putting a dent in patriachy. As long as god is thought of as a man, men will tend to think they’re superior, if only unconsciously

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Child abuse appears in every society. That doesn’t change the fact that some cultural/religious views make it more likely. Do you think the fact that the founder of Islam married a 9 year old, and the religion allows men multiple wives, and old men to take very young wives, might not contribute to more abuse?
You can see the same sort of thing in India and China where the cultural/religious preference for males leads to huge numbers of sex-selective abortions, and a huge sex disparity.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Of all the gender equality/identity issues one would think it’s about time that god became a he/she or an it/they. That would go a long way towards putting a dent in patriachy. As long as god is thought of as a man, men will tend to think they’re superior, if only unconsciously

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Sorry but that is arrant nonsense, particularly in the case of Roman women from the time of Augustus onwards to Theodosius.

Christianity is a Semitic cult and like the other two regards women as inferior, to put it mildly.

For example why has there never been a female* Pope, a Mama NOT a Papa?
Why does an Orthodox Jew exclaim “Thank God I was NOT made a woman “ as he leaps out of bed in the morning?

(* Leaving aside the 9th century controversy of Pope Joan of Bridport, Dorset).

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago

Rome was a moral cesspool. It was vastly improved by so-called barbarian invasions.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

A rather nihilistic point of view to put it mildly. Would you care to back it up with a few actual facts rather than Christian propaganda?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

A rather nihilistic point of view to put it mildly. Would you care to back it up with a few actual facts rather than Christian propaganda?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

Right on Charles.

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago

Rome was a moral cesspool. It was vastly improved by so-called barbarian invasions.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

Right on Charles.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12
I don’t disagree that Christianity has a good, often better expression of equality than many other belief systems (excepting perhaps, Baha’i, Judaism, Buddhism, Humanism), I just say that there is a lot more going on; and it’s a little obnoxious to link a terrible thing such as CA to any particular religion. Also glass houses….

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Sorry but that is arrant nonsense, particularly in the case of Roman women from the time of Augustus onwards to Theodosius.

Christianity is a Semitic cult and like the other two regards women as inferior, to put it mildly.

For example why has there never been a female* Pope, a Mama NOT a Papa?
Why does an Orthodox Jew exclaim “Thank God I was NOT made a woman “ as he leaps out of bed in the morning?

(* Leaving aside the 9th century controversy of Pope Joan of Bridport, Dorset).

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

At least Western societies allowed for that evolution. “True” Islamic societies cannot even consider that transformation. It is all written in their unchangeable book.

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Again practice may have deviated from the theology, but there is a reason that early converts to the Church were heavily weighted towards women. Christianity always gave women far higher status than the Greeks or Romans, or any of the other Classical social constructs.
Just see St. Paul in Galatians:

 26 For you are all the children of God by faith, in Christ Jesus.  27 For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ.  28 There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

At least Western societies allowed for that evolution. “True” Islamic societies cannot even consider that transformation. It is all written in their unchangeable book.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Really. I never got the impression that Christianity was about the equality of men and women. On the contrary it seems to perpetuate the superiority of men.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Are you sure? Equality of sexes is a fairly recent development even in Western/Christian societies.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Really. I never got the impression that Christianity was about the equality of men and women. On the contrary it seems to perpetuate the superiority of men.

Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Yes, country like China was in recent history (last 500 years) but Pakistan never was.
Anyway, I have no problem with what savages do in their lands.
We just don’t need them here.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew F

Proud ignoramus

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

It is neither proud nor ignorant to wish to maintain our national culture intact. Why the hell should we watch our ways, our culture, and our customs, being wrecked by an uncaring government allowing in an army of unknown foreign nobodies (truly ignorant people with some disgusting habits) to ruin our country and our childrens’ lives?

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

“Anyway, I have no problem with what savages do in their lands.
We just don’t need them here.”

Proud and ignorant.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

“Anyway, I have no problem with what savages do in their lands.
We just don’t need them here.”

Proud and ignorant.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

It is neither proud nor ignorant to wish to maintain our national culture intact. Why the hell should we watch our ways, our culture, and our customs, being wrecked by an uncaring government allowing in an army of unknown foreign nobodies (truly ignorant people with some disgusting habits) to ruin our country and our childrens’ lives?

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew F

Proud ignoramus

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Pakistanis actually believe that their culture is far more superior than the western culture. I wonder what makes them believe this! The title: The Land Of The Pure?

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Vijay Kant

Pretty much every country, religion, region, professsion and family think they are superior.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Vijay Kant

Pretty much every country, religion, region, professsion and family think they are superior.

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

I think it is absolutely national and religious culture that’s the problem.
Christian societies, and their descendant are the only societies to even express a belief in the equality of men and women (even though this has often only been honored in the breach). It’s not even an idea in most all Islamic, Asian, or African cultures, unless it has been imported from the west.

Last edited 1 year ago by Snapper AG
Andrew F
Andrew F
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Yes, country like China was in recent history (last 500 years) but Pakistan never was.
Anyway, I have no problem with what savages do in their lands.
We just don’t need them here.

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Pakistanis actually believe that their culture is far more superior than the western culture. I wonder what makes them believe this! The title: The Land Of The Pure?

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Nell Clover

She provided no solid evidence for these numbers. They were just convenient for the narrative she wanted to construct.

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

And what narrative are you constructing? Provide evidence against her article.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Vijay Kant

I am simply pointing out that she doesn’t have the data to back up her claims. Do follow up the links she provides. You’ll see for yourself how flimsy her ‘evidence’ is.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
1 year ago
Reply to  Vijay Kant

I am simply pointing out that she doesn’t have the data to back up her claims. Do follow up the links she provides. You’ll see for yourself how flimsy her ‘evidence’ is.

Vijay Kant
Vijay Kant
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

And what narrative are you constructing? Provide evidence against her article.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago