The near unhinged hyperbole exhibited by most of the media concerning the events of January 6 – the way it was lept upon with ill-disguised glee by the narrative-setters; how the words used to describe it – ‘coup’, ‘insurrection’ – bore little if any relation to their true meanings, the way that outright lies were told about police deaths and beatings, the way endless reruns of those few short hours were played again and again and again, the way show trials were scheduled and orcastrated only then to be played by TV companies as desperate for ratings as they are to distort the minds of their viewers, and to form footsoldiers loyal to a political party they have long since dropped any pretence of working for – all this has conspired to shatter any trust whatsoever I had in those outlets now reporting on the events in Brazil.
As one might expect, the coverage has taken much the same tone; the exact same words – sometimes even whole sentences – re-used; their meanings translated, in my mind at least to now read ‘lies’.
However, this doesn’t neccasarily mean that whats happening / happened over there is as insignificant as a crowd of idiots letting themselves into a government building to parade around the place taking selfies. Maybe it is serious. Maybe the ‘threat to democracy’ is (for once) genuine. Or maybe, as this article would suggest, theres not a great deal of cause for concern. The fact is I have no idea. All I know is that I’m tired of consuming two polar accounts of reality, only to find the truth to lie somewhere in the middle, and with every day that passes for it to be further and further away from the account given by the legacy / MS media.
In short, even the original, American Jan 6th was not really a January 6th, so to speak.
A bunch of “rioters” and “insurrectionists” with no guns, no major property damage and nobody killed – despite one of their own being shot down in cold blood, the crowd did not react violently.
Wish the BLM “protests” were as “violent” as those people.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
The medical examiner said he died of strokes caused by blood clots in an artery. He ruled it was natural. The autopsy found no evidence of internal or external injuries, or of an allergic reaction to any chemical substance.
The medical examiner said he died of strokes caused by blood clots in an artery. He ruled it was natural. The autopsy found no evidence of internal or external injuries, or of an allergic reaction to any chemical substance.
You are thinking of Officer Kevin Greeson who had a heart attack, not Sicknick. Sicknick’s family is suing because his death was caused by his brutal attack. Get your facts straight before you argue.
Did he get attacked or not? He did, that is not ‘non-violent’ protest. As did several others. Conservatives supporting people who attack the police, or even trash the Capitol building?
Most Republicans would like to move on as they know trying to defend Jan 6th is not at all helpful to them politically. However it seems we can always rely on a few UnHerd commentators to keep banging on about it. This was in any case an article about Brazil.
But I almost despair. Many on the Right are utterly clueless about any sort of political strategy.
You are thinking of Officer Kevin Greeson who had a heart attack, not Sicknick. Sicknick’s family is suing because his death was caused by his brutal attack. Get your facts straight before you argue.
Did he get attacked or not? He did, that is not ‘non-violent’ protest. As did several others. Conservatives supporting people who attack the police, or even trash the Capitol building?
Most Republicans would like to move on as they know trying to defend Jan 6th is not at all helpful to them politically. However it seems we can always rely on a few UnHerd commentators to keep banging on about it. This was in any case an article about Brazil.
But I almost despair. Many on the Right are utterly clueless about any sort of political strategy.
Big picture. I know you probably don’t trust Reuters, but this is what policemen said Police officers recount horrors from the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol | Reuters
Supposed conservatives defending these thuggish rioters (ok many of them dupes, but what the hell did they think they were doing) is a disgrace.
Trump was the worst culprit, because he undoubtedly incited the protest / invasion / riot / whatever it was. It would have been so much better not to have done so, even for the future of conservatism.
Oh please.
Did you even read the “evidence” that you linked to?
And just for a laugh, do a Google search for some of those “victims” of Jan 6th prominently mentioned in your piece.
Lied under oath, made up his stories, almost certainly commited perjury.
Those couple of names mentioned earlier supposedly killed on that day?
Both were false.
Don’t know what’s worse, the brazenness with which the likes of NYT lie or the stupidity of people who actually believe those lies without a bit of common sense or cross checking.
Oh please.
Did you even read the “evidence” that you linked to?
And just for a laugh, do a Google search for some of those “victims” of Jan 6th prominently mentioned in your piece.
Lied under oath, made up his stories, almost certainly commited perjury.
Those couple of names mentioned earlier supposedly killed on that day?
Both were false.
Don’t know what’s worse, the brazenness with which the likes of NYT lie or the stupidity of people who actually believe those lies without a bit of common sense or cross checking.
Big picture. I know you probably don’t trust Reuters, but this is what policemen said Police officers recount horrors from the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol | Reuters
Supposed conservatives defending these thuggish rioters (ok many of them dupes, but what the hell did they think they were doing) is a disgrace.
Trump was the worst culprit, because he undoubtedly incited the protest / invasion / riot / whatever it was. It would have been so much better not to have done so, even for the future of conservatism.
‘In cold blood’. Scared policemen faced by a mob invading the seat of government, of huge symbolic importance and at that time, practical governance in confirming the election result, screaming ‘Pelosi, where are you?’. What were the ‘protestors’ doing exactly? Perhaps they had no real idea, but certainly at least trying to intimidate. In some ways you can feel sorry for many of them, as they had been totally whipped up by Trump. But some of them seemed pretty scary to me. I thought conservatives were supposed to oppose trashing public property? Double standards here among some on the Right – police killing unarmed black criminals – fine – Trump supporters, not so much.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
‘In cold blood’. Scared policemen faced by a mob invading the seat of government, of huge symbolic importance and at that time, practical governance in confirming the election result, screaming ‘Pelosi, where are you?’. What were the ‘protestors’ doing exactly? Perhaps they had no real idea, but certainly at least trying to intimidate. In some ways you can feel sorry for many of them, as they had been totally whipped up by Trump. But some of them seemed pretty scary to me. I thought conservatives were supposed to oppose trashing public property? Double standards here among some on the Right – police killing unarmed black criminals – fine – Trump supporters, not so much.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
Washington’s medical examiner found that Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick*died a natural death on Jan. 7.
Do you seriously dispute this?
Although not mentioned I would also assume he was suffering from atherosclerosis. I wonder if he was having an ECG every six months, as he should have been.
(* Without meaning an iota of disrespect to SICKNICK’s family, it is the most extraordinary name under the circumstances, is it not?)
Sudden stress can indeed cause a stroke and Sicknick took several punches to the head. He died 8 hours after the riots, and even the medical examiner said the attack on him likely played a role in his death. And no, I don’t find the dead man’s name funny. And it is disrespectful, despite your half-hearted disclaimer.
Sudden stress can indeed cause a stroke and Sicknick took several punches to the head. He died 8 hours after the riots, and even the medical examiner said the attack on him likely played a role in his death. And no, I don’t find the dead man’s name funny. And it is disrespectful, despite your half-hearted disclaimer.
The NYT? Really?
That said… Only RAY EPPS knows the truth. He was there – rallying the crowd to go to the Capital. “Go inside, go inside the capital!” Provoking the crowd. Get your facts straight.
Washington’s medical examiner found that Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick*died a natural death on Jan. 7.
Do you seriously dispute this?
Although not mentioned I would also assume he was suffering from atherosclerosis. I wonder if he was having an ECG every six months, as he should have been.
(* Without meaning an iota of disrespect to SICKNICK’s family, it is the most extraordinary name under the circumstances, is it not?)
The NYT? Really?
That said… Only RAY EPPS knows the truth. He was there – rallying the crowd to go to the Capital. “Go inside, go inside the capital!” Provoking the crowd. Get your facts straight.
The bottom line is that this is article is excellent reporting from a Brazilian journalist! I’ve lived in southern Brazil for 5 years (since before Bolsonaro was elected in 2018) and am watching in real-time what unfolded and is unfolding.
My wife (uma brasileira) and one of her sisters (of 5) are anti-Bolsonaro- for the same reason that Suburban US women were Anti-Trump (boorish and unpresidential). They both became hysterical about the storming of the empty government buildings – my wife claiming that Brazil’s “experiment” with self-government was under threat by the half of the country that voted for Bolsonaro.
However, the other 3 sisters and their husbands are pro-Bolsonaro and were sort of cheering about the storming of the empty buildings, though I’m confident they are calming down as they realize how stupid it was, and what the ramifications might be.
The mainline news in Brazil and government spokesmen (including Lula himself) are talking about the event as an invasion, terrorism, fascism, an attempted coup (“golpistas”).
Incredibly, the only rational and balanced reporting and realistic perspective I have seen is this article in English on UnHerd! I think I’ll seek out the author’s podcast “aufgehebunga bunga” – I presume based on Hegel’s aufgeheben -clever!
January 6th did actually happen, and I don’t think CNN arranged it! It is true the Democrats have milked the event for all it is worth, though it hasn’t done them a lot of good among the American electorate. It was also largely a shambolic farce – though no doubt pretty scary to the few policemen on duty. But Trump endlessly not accept the election result; he had tried the courts, which he was entitled to do, but they rejected his claims. He should have then conceded.
He at least encouraged a mass assembly / protest, which apart from anything else was a politically stupid thing to do. Trashing the Capitol, even if that was all it was, is really not a very good look for a supposedly ‘conservative’ political leader, but then again, in no meaningful sense is Trump a conservative. Trump is always ‘his’ side’s worst enemy, as he showed just recently (Ron ‘Sanctimonious’ – funny but showing all he cares about is himself) and helping to prevent the expected ‘red wave’ in the mid-terms.
Geez, you can dispute that an officer was killed and still think it was a disgrace. You can dispute that it was an insurrection and still believe it was a violent mob.
Geez, you can dispute that an officer was killed and still think it was a disgrace. You can dispute that it was an insurrection and still believe it was a violent mob.
In short, even the original, American Jan 6th was not really a January 6th, so to speak.
A bunch of “rioters” and “insurrectionists” with no guns, no major property damage and nobody killed – despite one of their own being shot down in cold blood, the crowd did not react violently.
Wish the BLM “protests” were as “violent” as those people.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
The bottom line is that this is article is excellent reporting from a Brazilian journalist! I’ve lived in southern Brazil for 5 years (since before Bolsonaro was elected in 2018) and am watching in real-time what unfolded and is unfolding.
My wife (uma brasileira) and one of her sisters (of 5) are anti-Bolsonaro- for the same reason that Suburban US women were Anti-Trump (boorish and unpresidential). They both became hysterical about the storming of the empty government buildings – my wife claiming that Brazil’s “experiment” with self-government was under threat by the half of the country that voted for Bolsonaro.
However, the other 3 sisters and their husbands are pro-Bolsonaro and were sort of cheering about the storming of the empty buildings, though I’m confident they are calming down as they realize how stupid it was, and what the ramifications might be.
The mainline news in Brazil and government spokesmen (including Lula himself) are talking about the event as an invasion, terrorism, fascism, an attempted coup (“golpistas”).
Incredibly, the only rational and balanced reporting and realistic perspective I have seen is this article in English on UnHerd! I think I’ll seek out the author’s podcast “aufgehebunga bunga” – I presume based on Hegel’s aufgeheben -clever!
January 6th did actually happen, and I don’t think CNN arranged it! It is true the Democrats have milked the event for all it is worth, though it hasn’t done them a lot of good among the American electorate. It was also largely a shambolic farce – though no doubt pretty scary to the few policemen on duty. But Trump endlessly not accept the election result; he had tried the courts, which he was entitled to do, but they rejected his claims. He should have then conceded.
He at least encouraged a mass assembly / protest, which apart from anything else was a politically stupid thing to do. Trashing the Capitol, even if that was all it was, is really not a very good look for a supposedly ‘conservative’ political leader, but then again, in no meaningful sense is Trump a conservative. Trump is always ‘his’ side’s worst enemy, as he showed just recently (Ron ‘Sanctimonious’ – funny but showing all he cares about is himself) and helping to prevent the expected ‘red wave’ in the mid-terms.
Jim Jam
1 year ago
The near unhinged hyperbole exhibited by most of the media concerning the events of January 6 – the way it was lept upon with ill-disguised glee by the narrative-setters; how the words used to describe it – ‘coup’, ‘insurrection’ – bore little if any relation to their true meanings, the way that outright lies were told about police deaths and beatings, the way endless reruns of those few short hours were played again and again and again, the way show trials were scheduled and orcastrated only then to be played by TV companies as desperate for ratings as they are to distort the minds of their viewers, and to form footsoldiers loyal to a political party they have long since dropped any pretence of working for – all this has conspired to shatter any trust whatsoever I had in those outlets now reporting on the events in Brazil.
As one might expect, the coverage has taken much the same tone; the exact same words – sometimes even whole sentences – re-used; their meanings translated, in my mind at least to now read ‘lies’.
However, this doesn’t neccasarily mean that whats happening / happened over there is as insignificant as a crowd of idiots letting themselves into a government building to parade around the place taking selfies. Maybe it is serious. Maybe the ‘threat to democracy’ is (for once) genuine. Or maybe, as this article would suggest, theres not a great deal of cause for concern. The fact is I have no idea. All I know is that I’m tired of consuming two polar accounts of reality, only to find the truth to lie somewhere in the middle, and with every day that passes for it to be further and further away from the account given by the legacy / MS media.
Last edited 1 year ago by Jim Jam
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
January 6 wasn’t “January 6!”, either. People lead protest marches in DC all the time. The difference is, most of them aren’t seeded with FBI malefactors and abetted by capitol police to create a political narrative for the media to hyperventilate about ad nauseam. When Trump was inaugurated, there was a massive riot on the parade route (and in other large US cities). The media dubbed it . . . a festival of resistance.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Do the lives of those police officers not matter to you? How can all of the commenters on here so easily dismiss January 6th? I thought this website was about honesty, but I just see people wedging narratives to suit their views.
Posting this absurd lie on repeat isn’t an argument. Does Ashli Babbitt, actually murdered in cold blood by capitol police officer Michael Byrd, matter to you? You don’t say.
Honestly, this is getting weird. I may be wrong, but I would posit most people on this website agree that Jan. 6 was violent and a disgrace.
But it wasn’t an insurrection or attempted coup. The Jan. 6 committee was an act of partisan political theatre that had no interest in finding out the truth.
“induced or aggravated by the stress of Jan. 6.”
And yet Mr BLM’s death somehow had no linkage to the amount of drugs he had in his blood, or his struggling and refusing to cooperate with the police.
“induced or aggravated by the stress of Jan. 6.”
And yet Mr BLM’s death somehow had no linkage to the amount of drugs he had in his blood, or his struggling and refusing to cooperate with the police.
Posting this absurd lie on repeat isn’t an argument. Does Ashli Babbitt, actually murdered in cold blood by capitol police officer Michael Byrd, matter to you? You don’t say.
Honestly, this is getting weird. I may be wrong, but I would posit most people on this website agree that Jan. 6 was violent and a disgrace.
But it wasn’t an insurrection or attempted coup. The Jan. 6 committee was an act of partisan political theatre that had no interest in finding out the truth.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Do the lives of those police officers not matter to you? How can all of the commenters on here so easily dismiss January 6th? I thought this website was about honesty, but I just see people wedging narratives to suit their views.
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
January 6 wasn’t “January 6!”, either. People lead protest marches in DC all the time. The difference is, most of them aren’t seeded with FBI malefactors and abetted by capitol police to create a political narrative for the media to hyperventilate about ad nauseam. When Trump was inaugurated, there was a massive riot on the parade route (and in other large US cities). The media dubbed it . . . a festival of resistance.
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
What happened in Brazil seems much more serious than the American experience. It looks like there was some actual planning, even if it was only bringing in 100 buses, and there was some financial backing from business leaders.
Still, it doesn’t seem like an existential threat to democracy. Prosecute the crap out of the perpetrators and set an example.
It didn’t take long, of course, to blame it on Trump. I’m sure the Washington Post will soon reveal from anonymous sources that Trump was masterminding the whole operation.
Agreed, it is a scandal that in the very capital of the USA we have political prisoners held in inhumane conditions and without access to legal remedies. (The fact that more is not being made of this is almost the worst part of this farce.) It is, indeed, barbaric, and amounts to willfully ignoring the Constitution. To have the writ, and to ignore it is scarier than not having it at all.
Agreed, it is a scandal that in the very capital of the USA we have political prisoners held in inhumane conditions and without access to legal remedies. (The fact that more is not being made of this is almost the worst part of this farce.) It is, indeed, barbaric, and amounts to willfully ignoring the Constitution. To have the writ, and to ignore it is scarier than not having it at all.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
I find the opposite, being, as we Brazilians are, thick-skinned from previous anti-democratic experiences. The system in place, good or bad as it may be, takes this possibility into account and is organized accordingly. In the US I see people shocked because politicians decide to not honour gentlemen’s agreements while there’s very little in place to actually enforce rules (the release of tax returns is but a small example).
As for Trump, I don’t believe he has the cognitive abilities to mastermind something like this. Not that Bolsonaro wouldn’t have loved it, mind you, since he counts himself as a Trump ally and had long been advised by Bannon and his ilk. It’s just that they’re bad at it.
I find the opposite, being, as we Brazilians are, thick-skinned from previous anti-democratic experiences. The system in place, good or bad as it may be, takes this possibility into account and is organized accordingly. In the US I see people shocked because politicians decide to not honour gentlemen’s agreements while there’s very little in place to actually enforce rules (the release of tax returns is but a small example).
As for Trump, I don’t believe he has the cognitive abilities to mastermind something like this. Not that Bolsonaro wouldn’t have loved it, mind you, since he counts himself as a Trump ally and had long been advised by Bannon and his ilk. It’s just that they’re bad at it.
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
What happened in Brazil seems much more serious than the American experience. It looks like there was some actual planning, even if it was only bringing in 100 buses, and there was some financial backing from business leaders.
Still, it doesn’t seem like an existential threat to democracy. Prosecute the crap out of the perpetrators and set an example.
It didn’t take long, of course, to blame it on Trump. I’m sure the Washington Post will soon reveal from anonymous sources that Trump was masterminding the whole operation.
Rob N
1 year ago
Interesting that there is little discussion about whether the Brazil election was fair or not. The votes cast might have been as reported (a very narrow win for Lula) BUT we know that the media (not just Twitter) in Brazil and overseas was almost universally very biased against Bolsonaro in what reporting/commentary it allowed etc.
Also almost certain that the Supreme Court, or at least some of the Justices, were also very biased.
So fair election. No.
I am sure that Brazil, like the US, has learnt a lot from the last failed coup in Turkey which was used as a pretext for huge restrictions on liberty, sacking of anti-President figures etc. Many commentators believe that the Turkish coup was instigated by Erdogan and fair to report that many think the same about Jan 6th. I wonder how long it will be till there is evidence that Lula was behind the Brazil demonstration/incursions.
Imagine branding a non mask, Covid vaccine mandating President Bolsonaro as a dictator!
Rob N
1 year ago
Interesting that there is little discussion about whether the Brazil election was fair or not. The votes cast might have been as reported (a very narrow win for Lula) BUT we know that the media (not just Twitter) in Brazil and overseas was almost universally very biased against Bolsonaro in what reporting/commentary it allowed etc.
Also almost certain that the Supreme Court, or at least some of the Justices, were also very biased.
So fair election. No.
I am sure that Brazil, like the US, has learnt a lot from the last failed coup in Turkey which was used as a pretext for huge restrictions on liberty, sacking of anti-President figures etc. Many commentators believe that the Turkish coup was instigated by Erdogan and fair to report that many think the same about Jan 6th. I wonder how long it will be till there is evidence that Lula was behind the Brazil demonstration/incursions.
Imagine branding a non mask, Covid vaccine mandating President Bolsonaro as a dictator!
Eileen Hall
1 year ago
Well, I have read some excellent articles on this site, and thought it was supposed to be a hallowed middle ground where facts and common sense had a home. But the comments on this article are no different than Fox News – all downplaying January 6th as a dustup. Those rioters wanted to hang Mike Pence, and do God knows what to Nancy Pelosi. They attacked police officers, defecated all over the Capitol, and destroyed tons of property. Some had zip ties and weapons. It was revolting, and why anyone would want to defend such thugs is beyond me.
I am all for finding a middle ground, but not at the expense of reason. Brian Sicknick had 2 strokes and died, after being sprayed with chemicals and punched (if not kicked) in the head. It’s not unreasonable to presume there is a connection between his attack and his strokes. Michael Fanone sustained permanent injury by his own testimony. Their suffering should be dismissed by people who I am sure have never served in either the service or as officers of the law. I come from a military family.
I too am tired of the extremes of the left and the right. The center is nonexistent, but I guess I won’t find it here. For disagreeing, I was accused of not even being a woman, but being a trans man? Bizarre. How is that even relevant? And for the record, I am a woman, a mother, and a teacher, and my children and students behave far better than the person who said that.
And the NY Times is a decent news source. Is it biased? Yes. But there is a difference between bias and credibility. Bias is what you cover. Credibility is whether your facts are correct. The facts in the time are correct, even if the spin skews left. For the record this site is rated as right biased, but credible. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/unherd-bias/
Maybe I will have better luck with another article. A few written by women on here have been excellent.
What utter nonsense, the British Army did far more damage in 1814, thank God!
So really this is just a feminist whinge, the same old stuff, how very boring!
The sixth of January was virtually NOTHING, a mere ‘storm in a teacup’, bar for the senseless murder of Ms Babbitt.
It’s about time you acknowledged this and got on with your own miserable life!
Feminist whinge? You have an issue with women. I am allowed to disagree with you. I don’t agree with you. And your all CAPS yelling won’t change that, nor your insults or conjecturing about my body parts. Very strange debating tactics.
I actually disagreed with much of what Eileen said in her threads and expressed that. I don’t think you win arguments though using ad hominems, even if they are really harmless.
I actually disagreed with much of what Eileen said in her threads and expressed that. I don’t think you win arguments though using ad hominems, even if they are really harmless.
Heavily downvoted posts often get deleted (possibly automatically). Sometimes they reappear, possibly from human intervention.
Any comments responding to a deleted one will also go.
Heavily downvoted posts often get deleted (possibly automatically). Sometimes they reappear, possibly from human intervention.
Any comments responding to a deleted one will also go.
So you disagree with my opinion and sources, and that makes me trans? Bizarre logic. And you’re still celebrating the 1814 attack on the Capital? And I’m the irrational one?
So you disagree with my opinion and sources, and that makes me trans? Bizarre logic. And you’re still celebrating the 1814 attack on the Capital? And I’m the irrational one?
Feminist whinge? You have an issue with women. I am allowed to disagree with you. I don’t agree with you. And your all CAPS yelling won’t change that, nor your insults or conjecturing about my body parts. Very strange debating tactics.
What utter nonsense, the British Army did far more damage in 1814, thank God!
So really this is just a feminist whinge, the same old stuff, how very boring!
The sixth of January was virtually NOTHING, a mere ‘storm in a teacup’, bar for the senseless murder of Ms Babbitt.
It’s about time you acknowledged this and got on with your own miserable life!
Eileen Hall
1 year ago
Well, I have read some excellent articles on this site, and thought it was supposed to be a hallowed middle ground where facts and common sense had a home. But the comments on this article are no different than Fox News – all downplaying January 6th as a dustup. Those rioters wanted to hang Mike Pence, and do God knows what to Nancy Pelosi. They attacked police officers, defecated all over the Capitol, and destroyed tons of property. Some had zip ties and weapons. It was revolting, and why anyone would want to defend such thugs is beyond me.
I am all for finding a middle ground, but not at the expense of reason. Brian Sicknick had 2 strokes and died, after being sprayed with chemicals and punched (if not kicked) in the head. It’s not unreasonable to presume there is a connection between his attack and his strokes. Michael Fanone sustained permanent injury by his own testimony. Their suffering should be dismissed by people who I am sure have never served in either the service or as officers of the law. I come from a military family.
I too am tired of the extremes of the left and the right. The center is nonexistent, but I guess I won’t find it here. For disagreeing, I was accused of not even being a woman, but being a trans man? Bizarre. How is that even relevant? And for the record, I am a woman, a mother, and a teacher, and my children and students behave far better than the person who said that.
And the NY Times is a decent news source. Is it biased? Yes. But there is a difference between bias and credibility. Bias is what you cover. Credibility is whether your facts are correct. The facts in the time are correct, even if the spin skews left. For the record this site is rated as right biased, but credible. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/unherd-bias/
Maybe I will have better luck with another article. A few written by women on here have been excellent.
The near unhinged hyperbole exhibited by most of the media concerning the events of January 6 – the way it was lept upon with ill-disguised glee by the narrative-setters; how the words used to describe it – ‘coup’, ‘insurrection’ – bore little if any relation to their true meanings, the way that outright lies were told about police deaths and beatings, the way endless reruns of those few short hours were played again and again and again, the way show trials were scheduled and orcastrated only then to be played by TV companies as desperate for ratings as they are to distort the minds of their viewers, and to form footsoldiers loyal to a political party they have long since dropped any pretence of working for – all this has conspired to shatter any trust whatsoever I had in those outlets now reporting on the events in Brazil.
As one might expect, the coverage has taken much the same tone; the exact same words – sometimes even whole sentences – re-used; their meanings translated, in my mind at least to now read ‘lies’.
However, this doesn’t neccasarily mean that whats happening / happened over there is as insignificant as a crowd of idiots letting themselves into a government building to parade around the place taking selfies. Maybe it is serious. Maybe the ‘threat to democracy’ is (for once) genuine. Or maybe, as this article would suggest, theres not a great deal of cause for concern. The fact is I have no idea. All I know is that I’m tired of consuming two polar accounts of reality, only to find the truth to lie somewhere in the middle, and with every day that passes for it to be further and further away from the account given by the legacy / MS media.
In short, even the original, American Jan 6th was not really a January 6th, so to speak.
A bunch of “rioters” and “insurrectionists” with no guns, no major property damage and nobody killed – despite one of their own being shot down in cold blood, the crowd did not react violently.
Wish the BLM “protests” were as “violent” as those people.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
Officer Sicknick died of natural causes. Even NPR had to admit it.
Perhaps Officer Fanone’s “traumatic brain injury” is what led to his new career as a media personality?
He was kicked in the head which lead to his strokes. Get real. What a completely dishonest answer.
The medical examiner said he died of strokes caused by blood clots in an artery. He ruled it was natural. The autopsy found no evidence of internal or external injuries, or of an allergic reaction to any chemical substance.
Blood clots? Now people get those all the time don’t they. But seem to be more for the last couple of years for some reason.
Blood clots? Now people get those all the time don’t they. But seem to be more for the last couple of years for some reason.
The medical examiner said he died of strokes caused by blood clots in an artery. He ruled it was natural. The autopsy found no evidence of internal or external injuries, or of an allergic reaction to any chemical substance.
You are thinking of Officer Kevin Greeson who had a heart attack, not Sicknick. Sicknick’s family is suing because his death was caused by his brutal attack. Get your facts straight before you argue.
You had better stop and check all the facts. Greeson wasn’t a police officer. He was a pro-Trump protestor who died of a medical emergency.
You had better stop and check all the facts. Greeson wasn’t a police officer. He was a pro-Trump protestor who died of a medical emergency.
Did he get attacked or not? He did, that is not ‘non-violent’ protest. As did several others. Conservatives supporting people who attack the police, or even trash the Capitol building?
Most Republicans would like to move on as they know trying to defend Jan 6th is not at all helpful to them politically. However it seems we can always rely on a few UnHerd commentators to keep banging on about it. This was in any case an article about Brazil.
But I almost despair. Many on the Right are utterly clueless about any sort of political strategy.
He was kicked in the head which lead to his strokes. Get real. What a completely dishonest answer.
You are thinking of Officer Kevin Greeson who had a heart attack, not Sicknick. Sicknick’s family is suing because his death was caused by his brutal attack. Get your facts straight before you argue.
Did he get attacked or not? He did, that is not ‘non-violent’ protest. As did several others. Conservatives supporting people who attack the police, or even trash the Capitol building?
Most Republicans would like to move on as they know trying to defend Jan 6th is not at all helpful to them politically. However it seems we can always rely on a few UnHerd commentators to keep banging on about it. This was in any case an article about Brazil.
But I almost despair. Many on the Right are utterly clueless about any sort of political strategy.
You were lucky Prince Harry wasn’t there!
He’d have probably ‘wasted’ 25 or more!
Newsweek reports regards Sicknick “The medical examiner for Washington, D.C. said Sicknick, who suffered two strokes, died of natural causes.”
So at least get your facts right.
Big picture. I know you probably don’t trust Reuters, but this is what policemen said
Police officers recount horrors from the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol | Reuters
Supposed conservatives defending these thuggish rioters (ok many of them dupes, but what the hell did they think they were doing) is a disgrace.
Trump was the worst culprit, because he undoubtedly incited the protest / invasion / riot / whatever it was. It would have been so much better not to have done so, even for the future of conservatism.
Oh please.
Did you even read the “evidence” that you linked to?
And just for a laugh, do a Google search for some of those “victims” of Jan 6th prominently mentioned in your piece.
Lied under oath, made up his stories, almost certainly commited perjury.
Those couple of names mentioned earlier supposedly killed on that day?
Both were false.
Don’t know what’s worse, the brazenness with which the likes of NYT lie or the stupidity of people who actually believe those lies without a bit of common sense or cross checking.
Oh please.
Did you even read the “evidence” that you linked to?
And just for a laugh, do a Google search for some of those “victims” of Jan 6th prominently mentioned in your piece.
Lied under oath, made up his stories, almost certainly commited perjury.
Those couple of names mentioned earlier supposedly killed on that day?
Both were false.
Don’t know what’s worse, the brazenness with which the likes of NYT lie or the stupidity of people who actually believe those lies without a bit of common sense or cross checking.
Big picture. I know you probably don’t trust Reuters, but this is what policemen said
Police officers recount horrors from the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol | Reuters
Supposed conservatives defending these thuggish rioters (ok many of them dupes, but what the hell did they think they were doing) is a disgrace.
Trump was the worst culprit, because he undoubtedly incited the protest / invasion / riot / whatever it was. It would have been so much better not to have done so, even for the future of conservatism.
https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/medical-examiner-finds-uscp-officer-brian-sicknick-died-natural-causes
Have the decency to admit you were lied to and fooled.
Officer Sicknick died of natural causes. Even NPR had to admit it.
Perhaps Officer Fanone’s “traumatic brain injury” is what led to his new career as a media personality?
You were lucky Prince Harry wasn’t there!
He’d have probably ‘wasted’ 25 or more!
Newsweek reports regards Sicknick “The medical examiner for Washington, D.C. said Sicknick, who suffered two strokes, died of natural causes.”
So at least get your facts right.
https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/medical-examiner-finds-uscp-officer-brian-sicknick-died-natural-causes
Have the decency to admit you were lied to and fooled.
‘In cold blood’. Scared policemen faced by a mob invading the seat of government, of huge symbolic importance and at that time, practical governance in confirming the election result, screaming ‘Pelosi, where are you?’. What were the ‘protestors’ doing exactly? Perhaps they had no real idea, but certainly at least trying to intimidate. In some ways you can feel sorry for many of them, as they had been totally whipped up by Trump. But some of them seemed pretty scary to me. I thought conservatives were supposed to oppose trashing public property? Double standards here among some on the Right – police killing unarmed black criminals – fine – Trump supporters, not so much.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
‘In cold blood’. Scared policemen faced by a mob invading the seat of government, of huge symbolic importance and at that time, practical governance in confirming the election result, screaming ‘Pelosi, where are you?’. What were the ‘protestors’ doing exactly? Perhaps they had no real idea, but certainly at least trying to intimidate. In some ways you can feel sorry for many of them, as they had been totally whipped up by Trump. But some of them seemed pretty scary to me. I thought conservatives were supposed to oppose trashing public property? Double standards here among some on the Right – police killing unarmed black criminals – fine – Trump supporters, not so much.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
I could just as well ask where you get yours.
Feel free to provide actual (not editorialised) evidence for those claims.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/us/politics/jan-6-capitol-deaths.html Although I am sure you disdain the NYT.
The NYT is not a credible source of info.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/
Washington’s medical examiner found that Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick*died a natural death on Jan. 7.
Do you seriously dispute this?
Although not mentioned I would also assume he was suffering from atherosclerosis. I wonder if he was having an ECG every six months, as he should have been.
(* Without meaning an iota of disrespect to SICKNICK’s family, it is the most extraordinary name under the circumstances, is it not?)
Sudden stress can indeed cause a stroke and Sicknick took several punches to the head. He died 8 hours after the riots, and even the medical examiner said the attack on him likely played a role in his death. And no, I don’t find the dead man’s name funny. And it is disrespectful, despite your half-hearted disclaimer.
Not as disrespectful as using a man’s death for political gain.
Not as disrespectful as using a man’s death for political gain.
Sudden stress can indeed cause a stroke and Sicknick took several punches to the head. He died 8 hours after the riots, and even the medical examiner said the attack on him likely played a role in his death. And no, I don’t find the dead man’s name funny. And it is disrespectful, despite your half-hearted disclaimer.
The NYT? Really?
That said… Only RAY EPPS knows the truth. He was there – rallying the crowd to go to the Capital. “Go inside, go inside the capital!” Provoking the crowd. Get your facts straight.
The NYT is not a credible source of info.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/
Washington’s medical examiner found that Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick*died a natural death on Jan. 7.
Do you seriously dispute this?
Although not mentioned I would also assume he was suffering from atherosclerosis. I wonder if he was having an ECG every six months, as he should have been.
(* Without meaning an iota of disrespect to SICKNICK’s family, it is the most extraordinary name under the circumstances, is it not?)
The NYT? Really?
That said… Only RAY EPPS knows the truth. He was there – rallying the crowd to go to the Capital. “Go inside, go inside the capital!” Provoking the crowd. Get your facts straight.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/us/politics/jan-6-capitol-deaths.html Although I am sure you disdain the NYT.
I could just as well ask where you get yours.
Feel free to provide actual (not editorialised) evidence for those claims.
The bottom line is that this is article is excellent reporting from a Brazilian journalist! I’ve lived in southern Brazil for 5 years (since before Bolsonaro was elected in 2018) and am watching in real-time what unfolded and is unfolding.
My wife (uma brasileira) and one of her sisters (of 5) are anti-Bolsonaro- for the same reason that Suburban US women were Anti-Trump (boorish and unpresidential). They both became hysterical about the storming of the empty government buildings – my wife claiming that Brazil’s “experiment” with self-government was under threat by the half of the country that voted for Bolsonaro.
However, the other 3 sisters and their husbands are pro-Bolsonaro and were sort of cheering about the storming of the empty buildings, though I’m confident they are calming down as they realize how stupid it was, and what the ramifications might be.
The mainline news in Brazil and government spokesmen (including Lula himself) are talking about the event as an invasion, terrorism, fascism, an attempted coup (“golpistas”).
Incredibly, the only rational and balanced reporting and realistic perspective I have seen is this article in English on UnHerd! I think I’ll seek out the author’s podcast “aufgehebunga bunga” – I presume based on Hegel’s aufgeheben -clever!
January 6th did actually happen, and I don’t think CNN arranged it! It is true the Democrats have milked the event for all it is worth, though it hasn’t done them a lot of good among the American electorate. It was also largely a shambolic farce – though no doubt pretty scary to the few policemen on duty. But Trump endlessly not accept the election result; he had tried the courts, which he was entitled to do, but they rejected his claims. He should have then conceded.
He at least encouraged a mass assembly / protest, which apart from anything else was a politically stupid thing to do. Trashing the Capitol, even if that was all it was, is really not a very good look for a supposedly ‘conservative’ political leader, but then again, in no meaningful sense is Trump a conservative. Trump is always ‘his’ side’s worst enemy, as he showed just recently (Ron ‘Sanctimonious’ – funny but showing all he cares about is himself) and helping to prevent the expected ‘red wave’ in the mid-terms.
Geez, you can dispute that an officer was killed and still think it was a disgrace. You can dispute that it was an insurrection and still believe it was a violent mob.
Geez, you can dispute that an officer was killed and still think it was a disgrace. You can dispute that it was an insurrection and still believe it was a violent mob.
In short, even the original, American Jan 6th was not really a January 6th, so to speak.
A bunch of “rioters” and “insurrectionists” with no guns, no major property damage and nobody killed – despite one of their own being shot down in cold blood, the crowd did not react violently.
Wish the BLM “protests” were as “violent” as those people.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
The bottom line is that this is article is excellent reporting from a Brazilian journalist! I’ve lived in southern Brazil for 5 years (since before Bolsonaro was elected in 2018) and am watching in real-time what unfolded and is unfolding.
My wife (uma brasileira) and one of her sisters (of 5) are anti-Bolsonaro- for the same reason that Suburban US women were Anti-Trump (boorish and unpresidential). They both became hysterical about the storming of the empty government buildings – my wife claiming that Brazil’s “experiment” with self-government was under threat by the half of the country that voted for Bolsonaro.
However, the other 3 sisters and their husbands are pro-Bolsonaro and were sort of cheering about the storming of the empty buildings, though I’m confident they are calming down as they realize how stupid it was, and what the ramifications might be.
The mainline news in Brazil and government spokesmen (including Lula himself) are talking about the event as an invasion, terrorism, fascism, an attempted coup (“golpistas”).
Incredibly, the only rational and balanced reporting and realistic perspective I have seen is this article in English on UnHerd! I think I’ll seek out the author’s podcast “aufgehebunga bunga” – I presume based on Hegel’s aufgeheben -clever!
January 6th did actually happen, and I don’t think CNN arranged it! It is true the Democrats have milked the event for all it is worth, though it hasn’t done them a lot of good among the American electorate. It was also largely a shambolic farce – though no doubt pretty scary to the few policemen on duty. But Trump endlessly not accept the election result; he had tried the courts, which he was entitled to do, but they rejected his claims. He should have then conceded.
He at least encouraged a mass assembly / protest, which apart from anything else was a politically stupid thing to do. Trashing the Capitol, even if that was all it was, is really not a very good look for a supposedly ‘conservative’ political leader, but then again, in no meaningful sense is Trump a conservative. Trump is always ‘his’ side’s worst enemy, as he showed just recently (Ron ‘Sanctimonious’ – funny but showing all he cares about is himself) and helping to prevent the expected ‘red wave’ in the mid-terms.
The near unhinged hyperbole exhibited by most of the media concerning the events of January 6 – the way it was lept upon with ill-disguised glee by the narrative-setters; how the words used to describe it – ‘coup’, ‘insurrection’ – bore little if any relation to their true meanings, the way that outright lies were told about police deaths and beatings, the way endless reruns of those few short hours were played again and again and again, the way show trials were scheduled and orcastrated only then to be played by TV companies as desperate for ratings as they are to distort the minds of their viewers, and to form footsoldiers loyal to a political party they have long since dropped any pretence of working for – all this has conspired to shatter any trust whatsoever I had in those outlets now reporting on the events in Brazil.
As one might expect, the coverage has taken much the same tone; the exact same words – sometimes even whole sentences – re-used; their meanings translated, in my mind at least to now read ‘lies’.
However, this doesn’t neccasarily mean that whats happening / happened over there is as insignificant as a crowd of idiots letting themselves into a government building to parade around the place taking selfies. Maybe it is serious. Maybe the ‘threat to democracy’ is (for once) genuine. Or maybe, as this article would suggest, theres not a great deal of cause for concern. The fact is I have no idea. All I know is that I’m tired of consuming two polar accounts of reality, only to find the truth to lie somewhere in the middle, and with every day that passes for it to be further and further away from the account given by the legacy / MS media.
January 6 wasn’t “January 6!”, either. People lead protest marches in DC all the time. The difference is, most of them aren’t seeded with FBI malefactors and abetted by capitol police to create a political narrative for the media to hyperventilate about ad nauseam. When Trump was inaugurated, there was a massive riot on the parade route (and in other large US cities). The media dubbed it . . . a festival of resistance.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Do the lives of those police officers not matter to you? How can all of the commenters on here so easily dismiss January 6th? I thought this website was about honesty, but I just see people wedging narratives to suit their views.
Posting this absurd lie on repeat isn’t an argument. Does Ashli Babbitt, actually murdered in cold blood by capitol police officer Michael Byrd, matter to you? You don’t say.
Michael Byrd should be tried for murder.
It is an absolute disgrace to the whole concept of US Justice that he is still a free man.
Michael Byrd should be tried for murder.
It is an absolute disgrace to the whole concept of US Justice that he is still a free man.
Stop repeating yourself you tiresome woman.
Had to throw the woman part in, huh?
Don’t tell me, but you are really Mr Hall or perhaps even Ms Trans Hall?
You know you’ve lost the argument when …
I think the relevant bit was the word before woman
Don’t tell me, but you are really Mr Hall or perhaps even Ms Trans Hall?
You know you’ve lost the argument when …
I think the relevant bit was the word before woman
Had to throw the woman part in, huh?
Honestly, this is getting weird. I may be wrong, but I would posit most people on this website agree that Jan. 6 was violent and a disgrace.
But it wasn’t an insurrection or attempted coup. The Jan. 6 committee was an act of partisan political theatre that had no interest in finding out the truth.
Newsweek reports regards Sicknick “The medical examiner for Washington, D.C. said Sicknick, who suffered two strokes, died of natural causes.”
So at least get your facts right.
I couldn’t read the NYT article because it’s paywalled, but I can accurately guess what it said;
“Sicknick did die as a result of a blood clot, but it was induced or aggravated by the stress of Jan. 6.”
Sad, sad state of affairs at the NYT.
“induced or aggravated by the stress of Jan. 6.”
And yet Mr BLM’s death somehow had no linkage to the amount of drugs he had in his blood, or his struggling and refusing to cooperate with the police.
“induced or aggravated by the stress of Jan. 6.”
And yet Mr BLM’s death somehow had no linkage to the amount of drugs he had in his blood, or his struggling and refusing to cooperate with the police.
I couldn’t read the NYT article because it’s paywalled, but I can accurately guess what it said;
“Sicknick did die as a result of a blood clot, but it was induced or aggravated by the stress of Jan. 6.”
Sad, sad state of affairs at the NYT.
Posting this absurd lie on repeat isn’t an argument. Does Ashli Babbitt, actually murdered in cold blood by capitol police officer Michael Byrd, matter to you? You don’t say.
Stop repeating yourself you tiresome woman.
Honestly, this is getting weird. I may be wrong, but I would posit most people on this website agree that Jan. 6 was violent and a disgrace.
But it wasn’t an insurrection or attempted coup. The Jan. 6 committee was an act of partisan political theatre that had no interest in finding out the truth.
Newsweek reports regards Sicknick “The medical examiner for Washington, D.C. said Sicknick, who suffered two strokes, died of natural causes.”
So at least get your facts right.
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Do the lives of those police officers not matter to you? How can all of the commenters on here so easily dismiss January 6th? I thought this website was about honesty, but I just see people wedging narratives to suit their views.
January 6 wasn’t “January 6!”, either. People lead protest marches in DC all the time. The difference is, most of them aren’t seeded with FBI malefactors and abetted by capitol police to create a political narrative for the media to hyperventilate about ad nauseam. When Trump was inaugurated, there was a massive riot on the parade route (and in other large US cities). The media dubbed it . . . a festival of resistance.
What happened in Brazil seems much more serious than the American experience. It looks like there was some actual planning, even if it was only bringing in 100 buses, and there was some financial backing from business leaders.
Still, it doesn’t seem like an existential threat to democracy. Prosecute the crap out of the perpetrators and set an example.
It didn’t take long, of course, to blame it on Trump. I’m sure the Washington Post will soon reveal from anonymous sources that Trump was masterminding the whole operation.
Quite so, the American thing was no more than a “fart in a windstorm” as we would say.
The only scandalous thing about it was that a Black Policeman shot and killed a White Woman and got away with it!
Plus the people that were arrested for 6 Jan have been held for two years in poor conditions, mostly without a trial so far…
Really!
Don’t they have Habeas corpus in the US?
If NOT how barbaric!
See https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/capitol-riot-defendants-release-498630
Thank you.
Not a good report!
Thank you.
Not a good report!
Agreed, it is a scandal that in the very capital of the USA we have political prisoners held in inhumane conditions and without access to legal remedies. (The fact that more is not being made of this is almost the worst part of this farce.) It is, indeed, barbaric, and amounts to willfully ignoring the Constitution. To have the writ, and to ignore it is scarier than not having it at all.
One might have thought that after the abomination that was ABU GHRAIB and all that nonsense about ‘water-boarding’, things might have got better.
Now it seems they only get worse.
One might have thought that after the abomination that was ABU GHRAIB and all that nonsense about ‘water-boarding’, things might have got better.
Now it seems they only get worse.
See https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/capitol-riot-defendants-release-498630
Agreed, it is a scandal that in the very capital of the USA we have political prisoners held in inhumane conditions and without access to legal remedies. (The fact that more is not being made of this is almost the worst part of this farce.) It is, indeed, barbaric, and amounts to willfully ignoring the Constitution. To have the writ, and to ignore it is scarier than not having it at all.
Really!
Don’t they have Habeas corpus in the US?
If NOT how barbaric!
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
What are you blathering about?
Sicknick, as you well know died of NATURAL causes.
Fanone has made a full recovery from his injuries, unlike Ms Babbitt who will have to wait until Judgment Day for Justice.
Presumably you ‘make up’ your facts as you trot along?
Um, no, Gleeson died of a heart attack, deemed natural causes, not Sicknick – he was kicked into a stroke.
You’ve been watching too much Dr Kildare!
You do NOT get “kicked into a stroke”!
You’ve been watching too much Dr Kildare!
You do NOT get “kicked into a stroke”!
Fanone has not made a full recovery, and even if he had, does that make January 6th non-violent?
Um, no, Gleeson died of a heart attack, deemed natural causes, not Sicknick – he was kicked into a stroke.
Fanone has not made a full recovery, and even if he had, does that make January 6th non-violent?
What are you blathering about?
Sicknick, as you well know died of NATURAL causes.
Fanone has made a full recovery from his injuries, unlike Ms Babbitt who will have to wait until Judgment Day for Justice.
Presumably you ‘make up’ your facts as you trot along?
Plus the people that were arrested for 6 Jan have been held for two years in poor conditions, mostly without a trial so far…
Tell that to Officer Brian Sicknick’s family. He was kicked in the head, suffered multiple strokes, and died from an attack by these non-violent protesters. Or Officer Michael Fanone who had heart attack and traumatic brain injury after being assaulted on January 6th. Where do you get your “facts”?
I find the opposite, being, as we Brazilians are, thick-skinned from previous anti-democratic experiences. The system in place, good or bad as it may be, takes this possibility into account and is organized accordingly. In the US I see people shocked because politicians decide to not honour gentlemen’s agreements while there’s very little in place to actually enforce rules (the release of tax returns is but a small example).
As for Trump, I don’t believe he has the cognitive abilities to mastermind something like this. Not that Bolsonaro wouldn’t have loved it, mind you, since he counts himself as a Trump ally and had long been advised by Bannon and his ilk. It’s just that they’re bad at it.
Quite so, the American thing was no more than a “fart in a windstorm” as we would say.
The only scandalous thing about it was that a Black Policeman shot and killed a White Woman and got away with it!
I find the opposite, being, as we Brazilians are, thick-skinned from previous anti-democratic experiences. The system in place, good or bad as it may be, takes this possibility into account and is organized accordingly. In the US I see people shocked because politicians decide to not honour gentlemen’s agreements while there’s very little in place to actually enforce rules (the release of tax returns is but a small example).
As for Trump, I don’t believe he has the cognitive abilities to mastermind something like this. Not that Bolsonaro wouldn’t have loved it, mind you, since he counts himself as a Trump ally and had long been advised by Bannon and his ilk. It’s just that they’re bad at it.
What happened in Brazil seems much more serious than the American experience. It looks like there was some actual planning, even if it was only bringing in 100 buses, and there was some financial backing from business leaders.
Still, it doesn’t seem like an existential threat to democracy. Prosecute the crap out of the perpetrators and set an example.
It didn’t take long, of course, to blame it on Trump. I’m sure the Washington Post will soon reveal from anonymous sources that Trump was masterminding the whole operation.
Interesting that there is little discussion about whether the Brazil election was fair or not. The votes cast might have been as reported (a very narrow win for Lula) BUT we know that the media (not just Twitter) in Brazil and overseas was almost universally very biased against Bolsonaro in what reporting/commentary it allowed etc.
Also almost certain that the Supreme Court, or at least some of the Justices, were also very biased.
So fair election. No.
I am sure that Brazil, like the US, has learnt a lot from the last failed coup in Turkey which was used as a pretext for huge restrictions on liberty, sacking of anti-President figures etc. Many commentators believe that the Turkish coup was instigated by Erdogan and fair to report that many think the same about Jan 6th. I wonder how long it will be till there is evidence that Lula was behind the Brazil demonstration/incursions.
Imagine branding a non mask, Covid vaccine mandating President Bolsonaro as a dictator!
Interesting that there is little discussion about whether the Brazil election was fair or not. The votes cast might have been as reported (a very narrow win for Lula) BUT we know that the media (not just Twitter) in Brazil and overseas was almost universally very biased against Bolsonaro in what reporting/commentary it allowed etc.
Also almost certain that the Supreme Court, or at least some of the Justices, were also very biased.
So fair election. No.
I am sure that Brazil, like the US, has learnt a lot from the last failed coup in Turkey which was used as a pretext for huge restrictions on liberty, sacking of anti-President figures etc. Many commentators believe that the Turkish coup was instigated by Erdogan and fair to report that many think the same about Jan 6th. I wonder how long it will be till there is evidence that Lula was behind the Brazil demonstration/incursions.
Imagine branding a non mask, Covid vaccine mandating President Bolsonaro as a dictator!
Well, I have read some excellent articles on this site, and thought it was supposed to be a hallowed middle ground where facts and common sense had a home. But the comments on this article are no different than Fox News – all downplaying January 6th as a dustup. Those rioters wanted to hang Mike Pence, and do God knows what to Nancy Pelosi. They attacked police officers, defecated all over the Capitol, and destroyed tons of property. Some had zip ties and weapons. It was revolting, and why anyone would want to defend such thugs is beyond me.
I am all for finding a middle ground, but not at the expense of reason. Brian Sicknick had 2 strokes and died, after being sprayed with chemicals and punched (if not kicked) in the head. It’s not unreasonable to presume there is a connection between his attack and his strokes. Michael Fanone sustained permanent injury by his own testimony. Their suffering should be dismissed by people who I am sure have never served in either the service or as officers of the law. I come from a military family.
I too am tired of the extremes of the left and the right. The center is nonexistent, but I guess I won’t find it here. For disagreeing, I was accused of not even being a woman, but being a trans man? Bizarre. How is that even relevant? And for the record, I am a woman, a mother, and a teacher, and my children and students behave far better than the person who said that.
And the NY Times is a decent news source. Is it biased? Yes. But there is a difference between bias and credibility. Bias is what you cover. Credibility is whether your facts are correct. The facts in the time are correct, even if the spin skews left. For the record this site is rated as right biased, but credible. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/unherd-bias/
Maybe I will have better luck with another article. A few written by women on here have been excellent.
What utter nonsense, the British Army did far more damage in 1814, thank God!
So really this is just a feminist whinge, the same old stuff, how very boring!
The sixth of January was virtually NOTHING, a mere ‘storm in a teacup’, bar for the senseless murder of Ms Babbitt.
It’s about time you acknowledged this and got on with your own miserable life!
Feminist whinge? You have an issue with women. I am allowed to disagree with you. I don’t agree with you. And your all CAPS yelling won’t change that, nor your insults or conjecturing about my body parts. Very strange debating tactics.
You need help Ms Hall, seek it while you still can.
By the way, what is this fantasy about ‘body parts’?
You accused me of being a trans man. You may have deleted it, but I wasn’t the only one who saw it.
Lots of stuff was deleted by the mods for some reason. I had some comments deleted that were not offensive.
For the record, calling trans was out of line for so many reasons.
If I may ask why?
I thought it was all the ‘rage’ in these decadent days.
I actually disagreed with much of what Eileen said in her threads and expressed that. I don’t think you win arguments though using ad hominems, even if they are really harmless.
I actually disagreed with much of what Eileen said in her threads and expressed that. I don’t think you win arguments though using ad hominems, even if they are really harmless.
Heavily downvoted posts often get deleted (possibly automatically). Sometimes they reappear, possibly from human intervention.
Any comments responding to a deleted one will also go.
If I may ask why?
I thought it was all the ‘rage’ in these decadent days.
Heavily downvoted posts often get deleted (possibly automatically). Sometimes they reappear, possibly from human intervention.
Any comments responding to a deleted one will also go.
I queried whether you were a “trans man”, but did not accuse you! You need to pick your words more carefully.
More to the point, why my query! Well there has to be some rational explanation for your extraordinary behaviour does there not?
So you disagree with my opinion and sources, and that makes me trans? Bizarre logic. And you’re still celebrating the 1814 attack on the Capital? And I’m the irrational one?
So you disagree with my opinion and sources, and that makes me trans? Bizarre logic. And you’re still celebrating the 1814 attack on the Capital? And I’m the irrational one?
Lots of stuff was deleted by the mods for some reason. I had some comments deleted that were not offensive.
For the record, calling trans was out of line for so many reasons.
I queried whether you were a “trans man”, but did not accuse you! You need to pick your words more carefully.
More to the point, why my query! Well there has to be some rational explanation for your extraordinary behaviour does there not?
You accused me of being a trans man. You may have deleted it, but I wasn’t the only one who saw it.
How can we debate when you don’t even know the FACTS?
You need help Ms Hall, seek it while you still can.
By the way, what is this fantasy about ‘body parts’?
How can we debate when you don’t even know the FACTS?
Feminist whinge? You have an issue with women. I am allowed to disagree with you. I don’t agree with you. And your all CAPS yelling won’t change that, nor your insults or conjecturing about my body parts. Very strange debating tactics.
What utter nonsense, the British Army did far more damage in 1814, thank God!
So really this is just a feminist whinge, the same old stuff, how very boring!
The sixth of January was virtually NOTHING, a mere ‘storm in a teacup’, bar for the senseless murder of Ms Babbitt.
It’s about time you acknowledged this and got on with your own miserable life!
Well, I have read some excellent articles on this site, and thought it was supposed to be a hallowed middle ground where facts and common sense had a home. But the comments on this article are no different than Fox News – all downplaying January 6th as a dustup. Those rioters wanted to hang Mike Pence, and do God knows what to Nancy Pelosi. They attacked police officers, defecated all over the Capitol, and destroyed tons of property. Some had zip ties and weapons. It was revolting, and why anyone would want to defend such thugs is beyond me.
I am all for finding a middle ground, but not at the expense of reason. Brian Sicknick had 2 strokes and died, after being sprayed with chemicals and punched (if not kicked) in the head. It’s not unreasonable to presume there is a connection between his attack and his strokes. Michael Fanone sustained permanent injury by his own testimony. Their suffering should be dismissed by people who I am sure have never served in either the service or as officers of the law. I come from a military family.
I too am tired of the extremes of the left and the right. The center is nonexistent, but I guess I won’t find it here. For disagreeing, I was accused of not even being a woman, but being a trans man? Bizarre. How is that even relevant? And for the record, I am a woman, a mother, and a teacher, and my children and students behave far better than the person who said that.
And the NY Times is a decent news source. Is it biased? Yes. But there is a difference between bias and credibility. Bias is what you cover. Credibility is whether your facts are correct. The facts in the time are correct, even if the spin skews left. For the record this site is rated as right biased, but credible. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/unherd-bias/
Maybe I will have better luck with another article. A few written by women on here have been excellent.