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Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
1 year ago

This is surely not that hard. If the deep fakers are far-right activists or incels then the severest penalties are appropriate. If the deep fakers are Extinction Rebellion or Just Stop Oil activists, then no action is required.
If a government agency commits a deep fake… Well, that is something that only “philosophers of knowledge” can handle.

Elliot Bjorn
Elliot Bjorn
1 year ago

I am one of those who see lizard people everywhere, although they are deepfaked so well you cannot tell except by ‘just knowing’; and that they have powerful positions in different organizations – like the WEF, Blackrock, and the Biden White house.

But what I am really worried about is ChatGPT. I was listening to some guy on ‘Rumble’ explaining how 20% of all jobs will be taken by it within 5 years. He talked of buying insurance, and how the person in the Insurance office is done – ChatGPT can do it. That is a pretty well paid job. Doctors, programmers, all those WFH, (work from home), maybe half of them are ‘unemployed men working’…… the pay checks have not stopped yet because some ChatGPT bot has not formatted their work into a ChatGPT system. But soon it will get around to it.

So what happens then? Naturally we think of the Luddites, and actually that is as far as I can get with the problem.

The WEF’s absolutely terrifying Lizard guy (and I think a follower of Sa * an), Yuval Noah Harari, says the biggest problem the world faces is what to do with all the useless people about to become economically pointless. He says a combination of drugs, VR, and computer games is what he sees…He believes students today have no idea what to study – as what will be useful in a decade is unknowable, and people will have to be reinventing themselves and their skills at breakneck speed the rest of their life, or be pushed out onto some Universal welfare.

He also points out correctly, that people have been calling this wolf for thousands of years, but always the ones jobless find something to do after industry replaces them – but he points out; in the boy cries wolf story, at the end, the wolf does arrive…..

”Harari calls it “the rise of the useless class” and ranks it as one of the most dire threats of the 21st century. In a nutshell, as artificial intelligence gets smarter, more humans are pushed out of the job market. No one knows what to study at college, because no one knows what skills learned at 20 will be relevant at 40. Before you know it, billions of people are useless, not through chance but by definition.”

Crazy days coming; Fast!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliot Bjorn

Just on the subject of ‘what to study’, it’s probably no coincidence that – leaving vocational education aside for one moment – the point of university education used to be to acquire skills in ‘how’ to think, which is rapidly being superceded by learning ‘what’ to think. Not being able to usefully question the data and information you’re being presented with in everyday life is no doubt a useful facet for those wishing to exert control over populations. (How they themselves learn to think is another matter!)

Back to vocational education. It seems to me that the future for medical practitioners (erstwhile known as doctors) would be skills in engaging with those presenting with medical problems: in interpreting, in explaining, in discussing options with an empathetic human, rather than in diagnosis. A different profession then, to a major extent. How this might translate to the other professions such as law may well be similar. As for teaching though… hmm, takes us back to the original issue around ‘what’ rather than ‘how’.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliot Bjorn

If the increased use of AI creates wealth, then this is really not such a hard problem to solve, assuming of course, there is a will to solve it. Provide basic income to all adult humans perhaps, and tax hard the AI deployers. It is depressing Hariri uses such hateful (yes!) language, oozing with contempt for ordinary people, you might say for human beings, but that is the way these days for these oh-so-superior types.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

And how do you propose to detect who is and isn’t using AI? For example, how would a teacher know if an essay was generated by AI or created by the candidate?

Rob N
Rob N
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

I don’t think the problem is that we won’t have enough money/wealth/resources to provide for these ‘useless’ people which will be almost all of us (even me!) but that we will all lack any purpose or reason to get out of bed. To remember the saying “All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, all play and no work makes Jack a mere toy”. We are all going to be toys. And at some point the toy will be worn out and binned.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

And how do you propose to detect who is and isn’t using AI? For example, how would a teacher know if an essay was generated by AI or created by the candidate?

Rob N
Rob N
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

I don’t think the problem is that we won’t have enough money/wealth/resources to provide for these ‘useless’ people which will be almost all of us (even me!) but that we will all lack any purpose or reason to get out of bed. To remember the saying “All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, all play and no work makes Jack a mere toy”. We are all going to be toys. And at some point the toy will be worn out and binned.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliot Bjorn

Yuval Noah Harari is my hero tbh, no mention of any devil worship in his brilliant books. But drugs, VR and games sounds awesome, if I can fit them in between golf and fishing.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliot Bjorn

Just on the subject of ‘what to study’, it’s probably no coincidence that – leaving vocational education aside for one moment – the point of university education used to be to acquire skills in ‘how’ to think, which is rapidly being superceded by learning ‘what’ to think. Not being able to usefully question the data and information you’re being presented with in everyday life is no doubt a useful facet for those wishing to exert control over populations. (How they themselves learn to think is another matter!)

Back to vocational education. It seems to me that the future for medical practitioners (erstwhile known as doctors) would be skills in engaging with those presenting with medical problems: in interpreting, in explaining, in discussing options with an empathetic human, rather than in diagnosis. A different profession then, to a major extent. How this might translate to the other professions such as law may well be similar. As for teaching though… hmm, takes us back to the original issue around ‘what’ rather than ‘how’.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliot Bjorn

If the increased use of AI creates wealth, then this is really not such a hard problem to solve, assuming of course, there is a will to solve it. Provide basic income to all adult humans perhaps, and tax hard the AI deployers. It is depressing Hariri uses such hateful (yes!) language, oozing with contempt for ordinary people, you might say for human beings, but that is the way these days for these oh-so-superior types.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliot Bjorn

Yuval Noah Harari is my hero tbh, no mention of any devil worship in his brilliant books. But drugs, VR and games sounds awesome, if I can fit them in between golf and fishing.

Elliot Bjorn
Elliot Bjorn
1 year ago

I am one of those who see lizard people everywhere, although they are deepfaked so well you cannot tell except by ‘just knowing’; and that they have powerful positions in different organizations – like the WEF, Blackrock, and the Biden White house.

But what I am really worried about is ChatGPT. I was listening to some guy on ‘Rumble’ explaining how 20% of all jobs will be taken by it within 5 years. He talked of buying insurance, and how the person in the Insurance office is done – ChatGPT can do it. That is a pretty well paid job. Doctors, programmers, all those WFH, (work from home), maybe half of them are ‘unemployed men working’…… the pay checks have not stopped yet because some ChatGPT bot has not formatted their work into a ChatGPT system. But soon it will get around to it.

So what happens then? Naturally we think of the Luddites, and actually that is as far as I can get with the problem.

The WEF’s absolutely terrifying Lizard guy (and I think a follower of Sa * an), Yuval Noah Harari, says the biggest problem the world faces is what to do with all the useless people about to become economically pointless. He says a combination of drugs, VR, and computer games is what he sees…He believes students today have no idea what to study – as what will be useful in a decade is unknowable, and people will have to be reinventing themselves and their skills at breakneck speed the rest of their life, or be pushed out onto some Universal welfare.

He also points out correctly, that people have been calling this wolf for thousands of years, but always the ones jobless find something to do after industry replaces them – but he points out; in the boy cries wolf story, at the end, the wolf does arrive…..

”Harari calls it “the rise of the useless class” and ranks it as one of the most dire threats of the 21st century. In a nutshell, as artificial intelligence gets smarter, more humans are pushed out of the job market. No one knows what to study at college, because no one knows what skills learned at 20 will be relevant at 40. Before you know it, billions of people are useless, not through chance but by definition.”

Crazy days coming; Fast!

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
1 year ago

This is surely not that hard. If the deep fakers are far-right activists or incels then the severest penalties are appropriate. If the deep fakers are Extinction Rebellion or Just Stop Oil activists, then no action is required.
If a government agency commits a deep fake… Well, that is something that only “philosophers of knowledge” can handle.

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
1 year ago

“ It’s hard enough these days to get people to stop believing that reptilian aliens are secretly in control of things”

That is precisely what the Reptilians would say.

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
1 year ago

“ It’s hard enough these days to get people to stop believing that reptilian aliens are secretly in control of things”

That is precisely what the Reptilians would say.

Benjamin Greco
Benjamin Greco
1 year ago

Wait, are you saying the lizard who keeps trying to sell me car insurance is a fake?!

Last edited 1 year ago by Benjamin Greco
Benjamin Greco
Benjamin Greco
1 year ago

Wait, are you saying the lizard who keeps trying to sell me car insurance is a fake?!

Last edited 1 year ago by Benjamin Greco
Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago

“…If the viewer is fully conscious that an image is faked, she will be less likely to believe it; but she will also be unlikely even just to suspend her disbelief in the way that imaginative immersion in a dramatic re-enactment requires…”

There is a simple way round this though. Don’t tell people at the start about the fakery, tell ’em at the end – like the disclaimer in books in the smallprint at the front which no one ever reads, that resemblance to real persons is purely coincidental, before the book proper commences – but with the fakery disclaimed at the end instead.

And I’m willing to bet this would fly, because it works for both sides. From the creators side, this approach would get round the legal requirement of the accusation of peddling fraud, but more importantly, it would likely trigger a double engagement with the creative work, because once told after the fact that the consumed experience had fakery, consumers might be tempted into reconsuming the same content again, this time with the aim of detecting the fake elements.

And from the consumers stance, it is crystal clear that we crave immersion, and are completely willing to embrace fakery in the context of creative content. We are hardly going to watch, say, a horror movie, if there was a highlighted bar at the bottom, mandated by statute (in effect the Chinese approach), continually flashing the message ‘these are all fake people, and this is all fake’ in fluorescent yellow. Ditto for the punch and judy of PMQ. Much more acceptable to be told at the end instead. So, because we are willing enough victims, we as consumers are likely to buy not being told until the end too, whenever the end is. For example, I fully expect the Tory party to disclaim after the next election that the whole of the last half decade was just a big spoof, a jape. And we, the consumers, will happily forgive them for it.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago

“…If the viewer is fully conscious that an image is faked, she will be less likely to believe it; but she will also be unlikely even just to suspend her disbelief in the way that imaginative immersion in a dramatic re-enactment requires…”

There is a simple way round this though. Don’t tell people at the start about the fakery, tell ’em at the end – like the disclaimer in books in the smallprint at the front which no one ever reads, that resemblance to real persons is purely coincidental, before the book proper commences – but with the fakery disclaimed at the end instead.

And I’m willing to bet this would fly, because it works for both sides. From the creators side, this approach would get round the legal requirement of the accusation of peddling fraud, but more importantly, it would likely trigger a double engagement with the creative work, because once told after the fact that the consumed experience had fakery, consumers might be tempted into reconsuming the same content again, this time with the aim of detecting the fake elements.

And from the consumers stance, it is crystal clear that we crave immersion, and are completely willing to embrace fakery in the context of creative content. We are hardly going to watch, say, a horror movie, if there was a highlighted bar at the bottom, mandated by statute (in effect the Chinese approach), continually flashing the message ‘these are all fake people, and this is all fake’ in fluorescent yellow. Ditto for the punch and judy of PMQ. Much more acceptable to be told at the end instead. So, because we are willing enough victims, we as consumers are likely to buy not being told until the end too, whenever the end is. For example, I fully expect the Tory party to disclaim after the next election that the whole of the last half decade was just a big spoof, a jape. And we, the consumers, will happily forgive them for it.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago

It would be interesting to see the reaction of these libertarians when, as is inevitable being such excellent ironic ‘targets’, they become the subject of such deepfake videos and ‘documentaries’, killing their reputations and careers. I suspect they won’t like it.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago

It would be interesting to see the reaction of these libertarians when, as is inevitable being such excellent ironic ‘targets’, they become the subject of such deepfake videos and ‘documentaries’, killing their reputations and careers. I suspect they won’t like it.

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
1 year ago

We all run to it every day and it seems to have all the answers. I’ve determined that the Internet is the AntiChrist. (Turns off replies.)

Richard Pearse
Richard Pearse
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

Soon you will need the thumbprint of your right hand to buy and sell in the market place, and possibly something on your forehead (face recognition) to enter the internet)

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Pearse

I could say something about the Mark Of The Beast but I won’t.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Pearse

I could say something about the Mark Of The Beast but I won’t.

Richard Ross
Richard Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

Just checking, LOL.
But very possibly you’re correct.

Richard Pearse
Richard Pearse
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

Soon you will need the thumbprint of your right hand to buy and sell in the market place, and possibly something on your forehead (face recognition) to enter the internet)

Richard Ross
Richard Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

Just checking, LOL.
But very possibly you’re correct.

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
1 year ago

We all run to it every day and it seems to have all the answers. I’ve determined that the Internet is the AntiChrist. (Turns off replies.)

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
1 year ago

We might be reptiles, but please don’t call us aliens. Some of us were hatched right here on Earth.
“If you stick (sic) us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh?”
(p***k was censored!)

Last edited 1 year ago by laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
1 year ago

We might be reptiles, but please don’t call us aliens. Some of us were hatched right here on Earth.
“If you stick (sic) us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh?”
(p***k was censored!)

Last edited 1 year ago by laurence scaduto
Jon Hawksley
Jon Hawksley
1 year ago

The problem with the internet is that people beleive what they see on it so the more deep fakes the better because then in time no one will trust anything – we will assume it is all fake and no one can be offended by anything. Once everyone is suitably sceptical of everything then anyone wanting to present something as true will have to gain their viewers trust by declaring the standards they adopt in their research and presentation and allowing it to be questioned. Only those sites need be willing to have their honesty audited. There will be no need to audit anyone who does not seek to be trusted. Trying to set standards for the entire internet is impossible and pointless. Free speech can be accomodated by allowing different audit bodies, each can cater for a different perspective on life.

Jon Hawksley
Jon Hawksley
1 year ago

The problem with the internet is that people beleive what they see on it so the more deep fakes the better because then in time no one will trust anything – we will assume it is all fake and no one can be offended by anything. Once everyone is suitably sceptical of everything then anyone wanting to present something as true will have to gain their viewers trust by declaring the standards they adopt in their research and presentation and allowing it to be questioned. Only those sites need be willing to have their honesty audited. There will be no need to audit anyone who does not seek to be trusted. Trying to set standards for the entire internet is impossible and pointless. Free speech can be accomodated by allowing different audit bodies, each can cater for a different perspective on life.

David Yetter
David Yetter
1 year ago

Presumably libel law applies to the creation of deepfakes making it appear that the person falsely depicted is doing something unsavory, even as laws against fraud apply to use of deepfakes to spoof security data. We may need a few tweaks to the law so that anyone defamed by a deepfake or alleging fraudulent activity using a deepfake has the right to access social media company to track down the right person to sue (I thing governments throughout the developed world can already get the info needed for a fraud investigation), but once that’s done a few large settlements should tamp down any real problems from the technology.

Last edited 1 year ago by David Yetter