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Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

Just this week I was discussing something similar with a colleague. I predict that all the best paradigm busting research is going to be done by private corporations starting about now and for the foreseeable future. Universities are no longer accepting of the type of difficult but brilliant people who break paradigms. Instead they have diversity quotas, respectful workplace policies, and disdain for meritocracy. How did Elon Musk build a rocket company in less than a decade? Because he is the opposite of all that – and he attracts the people who are the opposite of all that. They may not be the best social company – but they are rocket scientists. So universities will become mediocre or worse and a new generation of private companies will foster great science. Bringing it back to the article – the next great breakthrough in archeology will probably come from ‘amateur’ archeologists while their brethren in the academy are busy working on their Equity and Diversity statements.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peter Johnson
Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Well said! (And much better than me – see above, or below).
Not quite convinced about Mr. Musk though, it seems to me to be vanity rather than innovative research (and he is rich enough to be as vain as he likes), there is nothing new in moving something with an explosive. But he does seem positive and enthusiastic and I can’t condemn that attitude, especially when contrasted with the dismal negativity that has become the new norm.

Last edited 1 year ago by Leejon 0
Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

“there is nothing new in moving something with an explosive.”
Presumably this is a snide comment about his successful rocket company. Look into this a bit more and you’ll find he achieved a lot more than moving things with explosives, in fact he advanced the science of space travel considerably then worked as a partner with NASA.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

No, not a snide comment at all, merely a statement of fact. I applaud the renewed interest in space travel and hope that in future we can use it to be innovative, rather than relying on 80 year old technology. Science has become managed of late, bureaucratic in nature, we can do better.

John Henry
John Henry
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

You’re giving the owner too much credit. “He” didn’t do any such thing – the armies of engineers did. Which they rarely get credit for. Musk is a narcissistic jerk who seeks the limelight, the world would be just fine without him.

Michael Quinlan
Michael Quinlan
1 year ago
Reply to  John Henry

The cash. Musk brought the cash. Combined with his vision and dedication to taking risks the field advanced. Politically incorrect, perhaps, but effective.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  John Henry

That is truly silly. Leadership means something. Churchill didn’t win the war on his own, but without him it would most certainly have been lost.

Michael Quinlan
Michael Quinlan
1 year ago
Reply to  John Henry

The cash. Musk brought the cash. Combined with his vision and dedication to taking risks the field advanced. Politically incorrect, perhaps, but effective.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  John Henry

That is truly silly. Leadership means something. Churchill didn’t win the war on his own, but without him it would most certainly have been lost.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

No, not a snide comment at all, merely a statement of fact. I applaud the renewed interest in space travel and hope that in future we can use it to be innovative, rather than relying on 80 year old technology. Science has become managed of late, bureaucratic in nature, we can do better.

John Henry
John Henry
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

You’re giving the owner too much credit. “He” didn’t do any such thing – the armies of engineers did. Which they rarely get credit for. Musk is a narcissistic jerk who seeks the limelight, the world would be just fine without him.

Mr Bellisarius
Mr Bellisarius
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

Elon Musk has created a leading Automotive Company from scratch at a time when all the other companies were merging to survive.
His rocket company is the first private company to take humans to the ISS, breaking a long period when only the Russian space agency was able to do this. They also developed a main stage rocket capable of making a controlled landing for re-use, again a first. His company are providing the transport for the Artemis missions…man’s first return to the moon since Apollo. His space tourism missions have allowed people to go into orbit round the earth hours, as compared to the few minutes on a ballistic trajectory of their competitors.
His Starlink company (satellite broadband) has been fundamental in keeping Ukraine connected…without it you would not even be able to make a phone call in many areas of Ukraine. Starlink has kept this network up despite the many hacking attempts from Russia.
Now you may dismiss this as ‘Enthusiasm’. I have known many positive and enthusiastic wannabe entrepreneurs. Some have even been successful. But very few people in history have had so much success.
Maybe we don’t understand why he has been so successful. But the first step to understanding is to acknowledge that there is something to look for!

D.C. Harris
D.C. Harris
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

“Best day ever! I want to thank every Amazon employee and every Amazon customer because you guys paid for all this.”

— Jeff Bezos after returning to earth from his first ride on Phallus One spacecraft.

Last edited 1 year ago by D.C. Harris
Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

I just used Elon as an example of the type of person who couldn’t survive at a university anymore. But since we are talking about him – don’t forget Neuralink. He is actually doing this research because he believes AI is a threat to humanity. His solution, which is a clever one, is merge AI with humanity. Hence technology to bridge our brains with computers. I actually think Elon is a pretty deep thinker playing a long game. The fact that he is entertaining is only a bonus.

John Henry
John Henry
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Your advocacy of this jerk is noted. But he’s not interested in what’s best for human society – that’s the b.s. you’ve adopted as your own. If he was, he’d stop ruining our future. His vision for the future is a nightmare. All Musk cares about is Musk and the money he’s making, and his ability to control and influence. He’s not a man who should be adored even slightly.

John Henry
John Henry
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Your advocacy of this jerk is noted. But he’s not interested in what’s best for human society – that’s the b.s. you’ve adopted as your own. If he was, he’d stop ruining our future. His vision for the future is a nightmare. All Musk cares about is Musk and the money he’s making, and his ability to control and influence. He’s not a man who should be adored even slightly.

Rick Abrams
Rick Abrams
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

Musk bought what others created. The people who purchased the Hope Diamond did not create it. Things Musk attempted to start from scratch like his car tunnels were flops.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick Abrams

Tiny companies don’t become huge successes without someone at the wheel to drive them there. Musk has done just that. And the Boring Company? The vacuum capsule idea was more for fun than anything else. Digging holes is still going on. Even if he had 50% flops, that’s so far above average as to be almost unimaginable. He has created companies that are wild successes in completely different fields of engineering.
He’s not siloed into one branch of engineering, as I saw all too often in engineering school. No one could understand why I did a double major in electrical and mechanical engineering and then had the chemical engineering department try to snag me to go for my doctorate there. When I taught crossover classes I was always surprised by how little they knew of each other. He’s a generalist and I love that about him.
Personally, I’d probably hate the man, but that doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate what he has done.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick Abrams

While the foundations of invention always relate to the past, Musk had a vision of seeing improving something as possible. His car mastered the issues around Li batteries – smart charging/discharging, battery pack design, modern electric motor design and even forming the vehicle body. Others could have done that but they didn’t, he did. Same with rockets. As the DoD fretted about Russian engines and developing a US engine they gave contracts to the usual subject who required a long development. Musk started from basics and developed those engines in record time beating the cost and schedule demanded by others.
I could go on about what his has done. He clearly has the skills to build a team and nurture it forward, skills that others find in short supply. He clearly has a vision for improvement and ought to be well recognized.

John Henry
John Henry
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

No, he didn’t. Stop attributing phony achievements to Musk. He’s not a one man show, although he thinks he is. He loves to take the spotlight and spin his b.s., but “he” didn’t do any of the things you attribute to him – OTHERS DID. He also worked them into the ground.

John Henry
John Henry
1 year ago
Reply to  Hardee Hodges

No, he didn’t. Stop attributing phony achievements to Musk. He’s not a one man show, although he thinks he is. He loves to take the spotlight and spin his b.s., but “he” didn’t do any of the things you attribute to him – OTHERS DID. He also worked them into the ground.

Tom Graham
Tom Graham
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick Abrams

Tesla was a hobby company putting batteries in Lotus Elises when he took it over. Now it’s the most valuable automotive company on Earth.
He created SpaceX from scratch.

Do tell us what it is you have achieved with your life that is so notable, Mr Abrams.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Graham

Facts don’t matter to these people, Tom. Once I figured this out, the world made a lot more sense. I was naive for many years. If Elon was seeking merely accolades and praise he would simply come out as a homosexual, female African of aboriginal descent. The tide would turn so fast it would cause your neck to snap.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Graham

Facts don’t matter to these people, Tom. Once I figured this out, the world made a lot more sense. I was naive for many years. If Elon was seeking merely accolades and praise he would simply come out as a homosexual, female African of aboriginal descent. The tide would turn so fast it would cause your neck to snap.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick Abrams

You need to balance reading the NYT and watching CNN with some reality. It’s good for your health.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick Abrams

Tiny companies don’t become huge successes without someone at the wheel to drive them there. Musk has done just that. And the Boring Company? The vacuum capsule idea was more for fun than anything else. Digging holes is still going on. Even if he had 50% flops, that’s so far above average as to be almost unimaginable. He has created companies that are wild successes in completely different fields of engineering.
He’s not siloed into one branch of engineering, as I saw all too often in engineering school. No one could understand why I did a double major in electrical and mechanical engineering and then had the chemical engineering department try to snag me to go for my doctorate there. When I taught crossover classes I was always surprised by how little they knew of each other. He’s a generalist and I love that about him.
Personally, I’d probably hate the man, but that doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate what he has done.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick Abrams

While the foundations of invention always relate to the past, Musk had a vision of seeing improving something as possible. His car mastered the issues around Li batteries – smart charging/discharging, battery pack design, modern electric motor design and even forming the vehicle body. Others could have done that but they didn’t, he did. Same with rockets. As the DoD fretted about Russian engines and developing a US engine they gave contracts to the usual subject who required a long development. Musk started from basics and developed those engines in record time beating the cost and schedule demanded by others.
I could go on about what his has done. He clearly has the skills to build a team and nurture it forward, skills that others find in short supply. He clearly has a vision for improvement and ought to be well recognized.

Tom Graham
Tom Graham
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick Abrams

Tesla was a hobby company putting batteries in Lotus Elises when he took it over. Now it’s the most valuable automotive company on Earth.
He created SpaceX from scratch.

Do tell us what it is you have achieved with your life that is so notable, Mr Abrams.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick Abrams

You need to balance reading the NYT and watching CNN with some reality. It’s good for your health.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

It’s amazing what narrative can be accepted when you only read CNN. Compare the MSM coverage of Musk vs.that of the likes of SBF or that female wonderkind from the Theranos debacle. All glowing praise for absolutely nothing.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

I’m not so sure I did dismiss him, distinctly not in my own mind, that is something you merely assumed. This is a comments section, not an essay section. Some of us comment on the post alone, we do not seek to put the world to rights. There are enough of them.

Last edited 1 year ago by Leejon 0
D.C. Harris
D.C. Harris
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

“Best day ever! I want to thank every Amazon employee and every Amazon customer because you guys paid for all this.”

— Jeff Bezos after returning to earth from his first ride on Phallus One spacecraft.

Last edited 1 year ago by D.C. Harris
Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

I just used Elon as an example of the type of person who couldn’t survive at a university anymore. But since we are talking about him – don’t forget Neuralink. He is actually doing this research because he believes AI is a threat to humanity. His solution, which is a clever one, is merge AI with humanity. Hence technology to bridge our brains with computers. I actually think Elon is a pretty deep thinker playing a long game. The fact that he is entertaining is only a bonus.

Rick Abrams
Rick Abrams
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

Musk bought what others created. The people who purchased the Hope Diamond did not create it. Things Musk attempted to start from scratch like his car tunnels were flops.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

It’s amazing what narrative can be accepted when you only read CNN. Compare the MSM coverage of Musk vs.that of the likes of SBF or that female wonderkind from the Theranos debacle. All glowing praise for absolutely nothing.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

I’m not so sure I did dismiss him, distinctly not in my own mind, that is something you merely assumed. This is a comments section, not an essay section. Some of us comment on the post alone, we do not seek to put the world to rights. There are enough of them.

Last edited 1 year ago by Leejon 0
Robert Cocco
Robert Cocco
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

Vanity and ego, brashness and eccentricity (as perceived) are a feature, not a bug, inherent in the consequential movers and shakers.

Robert Hochbaum
Robert Hochbaum
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

Vanity? I’m no Elon fanboy but he’s redefined in many ways how rockets are designed and how they function. Just being able to land a booster and re-use it is quite a technological feat. I have all sorts of criticisms of his cars and the company but what he has done there is extraordinary to me, having worked in the business for quite a few years. The effort to achieve things like that are not driven by vanity. There are other, less challenging ways to to stroke one’s ego.
Now, regarding the flamethrowers, you may just have a point… But they are kinda cool in the sense that most people wold be terrified of creating something like that for fear of public backlash.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago

Despite the ramblings of those who did not understand my point or take the trouble to ask, I have no animus towards Mr Musk, in fact I rather like his disruptive-ness. As for vanity, I must disagree, vanity is misunderstood, usually by people who do not think they have it. We all do and it as quixotic and irrational as any other emotion. You will note that despite the reaction I did not condemn his vanity, or vanity in general; you are mistaken if you think that individual vanity cannot be something that changes the world.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago

Despite the ramblings of those who did not understand my point or take the trouble to ask, I have no animus towards Mr Musk, in fact I rather like his disruptive-ness. As for vanity, I must disagree, vanity is misunderstood, usually by people who do not think they have it. We all do and it as quixotic and irrational as any other emotion. You will note that despite the reaction I did not condemn his vanity, or vanity in general; you are mistaken if you think that individual vanity cannot be something that changes the world.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

Musk is both. From what I have heard, I probably couldn’t stand the man in person, but somehow he has what it takes to make what seemed outlandish possibilities real. Lightning has struck him too many times for it to be mere chance.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

I agree

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

I agree

Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

It’s true … Peter Johnson’s comment is well said. I diverge with you Leejon, with regard to Elon Musk. I have tremendous confidence in Musk because he is upfront and transparent. Despite making billions in the electric vehicle industry, he warned us all about the shortcomings of electric batteries. He has a sheepishness to his braggadocio that screams to me a kind of modesty and humility that speaks his beneficent intentions. I truly believe he has the well-being of humanity and our nation at the forefront. It’s not the kind of braggadocio that President Trump has, although I think President Trump is a true patriot.
If you listen to Scott Adams, he discusses the brilliant, wise, older and highly wealthy individuals who are moving our country and the globe forward. Unlike Bill Gates and Bezos, who seem to be more interested in ownership of commerce for the sake of commerce, Musk is visionary – in space, energy, and now free speech. These are truly movements for the well-being of us all. I do not see the vanity that you see.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago

I disagree

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago

I disagree

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

“there is nothing new in moving something with an explosive.”
Presumably this is a snide comment about his successful rocket company. Look into this a bit more and you’ll find he achieved a lot more than moving things with explosives, in fact he advanced the science of space travel considerably then worked as a partner with NASA.

Mr Bellisarius
Mr Bellisarius
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

Elon Musk has created a leading Automotive Company from scratch at a time when all the other companies were merging to survive.
His rocket company is the first private company to take humans to the ISS, breaking a long period when only the Russian space agency was able to do this. They also developed a main stage rocket capable of making a controlled landing for re-use, again a first. His company are providing the transport for the Artemis missions…man’s first return to the moon since Apollo. His space tourism missions have allowed people to go into orbit round the earth hours, as compared to the few minutes on a ballistic trajectory of their competitors.
His Starlink company (satellite broadband) has been fundamental in keeping Ukraine connected…without it you would not even be able to make a phone call in many areas of Ukraine. Starlink has kept this network up despite the many hacking attempts from Russia.
Now you may dismiss this as ‘Enthusiasm’. I have known many positive and enthusiastic wannabe entrepreneurs. Some have even been successful. But very few people in history have had so much success.
Maybe we don’t understand why he has been so successful. But the first step to understanding is to acknowledge that there is something to look for!

Robert Cocco
Robert Cocco
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

Vanity and ego, brashness and eccentricity (as perceived) are a feature, not a bug, inherent in the consequential movers and shakers.

Robert Hochbaum
Robert Hochbaum
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

Vanity? I’m no Elon fanboy but he’s redefined in many ways how rockets are designed and how they function. Just being able to land a booster and re-use it is quite a technological feat. I have all sorts of criticisms of his cars and the company but what he has done there is extraordinary to me, having worked in the business for quite a few years. The effort to achieve things like that are not driven by vanity. There are other, less challenging ways to to stroke one’s ego.
Now, regarding the flamethrowers, you may just have a point… But they are kinda cool in the sense that most people wold be terrified of creating something like that for fear of public backlash.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

Musk is both. From what I have heard, I probably couldn’t stand the man in person, but somehow he has what it takes to make what seemed outlandish possibilities real. Lightning has struck him too many times for it to be mere chance.

Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

It’s true … Peter Johnson’s comment is well said. I diverge with you Leejon, with regard to Elon Musk. I have tremendous confidence in Musk because he is upfront and transparent. Despite making billions in the electric vehicle industry, he warned us all about the shortcomings of electric batteries. He has a sheepishness to his braggadocio that screams to me a kind of modesty and humility that speaks his beneficent intentions. I truly believe he has the well-being of humanity and our nation at the forefront. It’s not the kind of braggadocio that President Trump has, although I think President Trump is a true patriot.
If you listen to Scott Adams, he discusses the brilliant, wise, older and highly wealthy individuals who are moving our country and the globe forward. Unlike Bill Gates and Bezos, who seem to be more interested in ownership of commerce for the sake of commerce, Musk is visionary – in space, energy, and now free speech. These are truly movements for the well-being of us all. I do not see the vanity that you see.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Archeologists annoy racist zealots by clearly displaying that ancient civilisations and… note the word ” cultures”… yes ” cultures” could design and construct buildings and roads over a thousand years ago that Africans are still incapable of doing.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Africans are learning fast and will eventually put us to shame if we don’t learn. The west is not what it was. We have to accept that. Britain is a decaying culture obsessed with sexual identity and political correctness. We see it in the universities and in the nationalised organisations wherever government touches the culture.

David Sharples
David Sharples
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

As an American, I find it dystopian that free-speech does not really exist in the UK.
For example, are you free to say:
“ Islam is right about women.”
“ Islam is not right about women.”

Do you see the conundrum?

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  David Sharples

Both are forbidden because the first would bring cries from feminists and the second would bring cries of ‘Racism’.

I would interpret things as follows: if everybody ties themselves to a certain minority opinion, it would be seen to be bad to take the view of the majority. There is almost no opinion which does not upset a certain minority.

Then you come to being woke. This means that if you are succesful and own a house and your marriage is OK and the children don’t take drugs, you have to pretend to be concerned that others are not like you. So, for example, if you are white, have worked 60 hour weeks, have invested well, you have to say that you have done this at the expense of black people. You don’t have to believe it but you are expected to say it.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

How dare you live your life as a white person all those years, complete with proper English and relying on mathematical formulas. You are not allowed to be proud of your culture. In fact, in this new era of multiculturalism yours is the only culture that is not allowed to be proud. For we all now know that the world would be holding hands and singing “Kumbaya” if it weren’t for the white man.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

How dare you live your life as a white person all those years, complete with proper English and relying on mathematical formulas. You are not allowed to be proud of your culture. In fact, in this new era of multiculturalism yours is the only culture that is not allowed to be proud. For we all now know that the world would be holding hands and singing “Kumbaya” if it weren’t for the white man.

Ludwig van Earwig
Ludwig van Earwig
1 year ago
Reply to  David Sharples

Very good, Mr. Sharples! But my guess is you won’t be able to get away with publicly making either of those statements in the US either.

Adèle Blanc-Sec
Adèle Blanc-Sec
1 year ago
Reply to  David Sharples

Does free speech still exist in American universities? because the disease comes from them?? Sadly.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

It depends on which definition of free speech you are referring to. If you mean the kind that is approved by the speech police, then free speech is allowed. If you are referring to voicing your own informed opinion, which might be contrary to the accepted narrative, then that is considered a threat to democracy.

Last edited 1 year ago by Warren Trees
Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

It depends on which definition of free speech you are referring to. If you mean the kind that is approved by the speech police, then free speech is allowed. If you are referring to voicing your own informed opinion, which might be contrary to the accepted narrative, then that is considered a threat to democracy.

Last edited 1 year ago by Warren Trees
Tom Graham
Tom Graham
1 year ago
Reply to  David Sharples

Free speech certainly does not exist in the USA or Canada.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  David Sharples

Both are forbidden because the first would bring cries from feminists and the second would bring cries of ‘Racism’.

I would interpret things as follows: if everybody ties themselves to a certain minority opinion, it would be seen to be bad to take the view of the majority. There is almost no opinion which does not upset a certain minority.

Then you come to being woke. This means that if you are succesful and own a house and your marriage is OK and the children don’t take drugs, you have to pretend to be concerned that others are not like you. So, for example, if you are white, have worked 60 hour weeks, have invested well, you have to say that you have done this at the expense of black people. You don’t have to believe it but you are expected to say it.

Ludwig van Earwig
Ludwig van Earwig
1 year ago
Reply to  David Sharples

Very good, Mr. Sharples! But my guess is you won’t be able to get away with publicly making either of those statements in the US either.

Adèle Blanc-Sec
Adèle Blanc-Sec
1 year ago
Reply to  David Sharples

Does free speech still exist in American universities? because the disease comes from them?? Sadly.

Tom Graham
Tom Graham
1 year ago
Reply to  David Sharples

Free speech certainly does not exist in the USA or Canada.

Marchell Abrahams
Marchell Abrahams
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

That might be mainstream Britain; it doesn’t apply to the rest of us. And we are on the move.

David Sharples
David Sharples
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

As an American, I find it dystopian that free-speech does not really exist in the UK.
For example, are you free to say:
“ Islam is right about women.”
“ Islam is not right about women.”

Do you see the conundrum?

Marchell Abrahams
Marchell Abrahams
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

That might be mainstream Britain; it doesn’t apply to the rest of us. And we are on the move.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
1 year ago

Some of those cultures were African as well though

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

And all those cultures were non Sub Saharan Africans or SSA’s heavily admixxed (Horners) with non SSA genetics. I wouldn’t even be suprised if a lot of structures in Horn were built by backmigration of non SSA individuals who slowly admixxed to what those populations are today.

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

lol censored my comment guess what im back, none were sub sahran african except horners who have sigfnicant non SSA admixture and im not even sure those structutres were built by current people, may have been built by backmigration of non SSA peoples into africa.

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

And all those cultures were non Sub Saharan Africans or SSA’s heavily admixxed (Horners) with non SSA genetics. I wouldn’t even be suprised if a lot of structures in Horn were built by backmigration of non SSA individuals who slowly admixxed to what those populations are today.

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

lol censored my comment guess what im back, none were sub sahran african except horners who have sigfnicant non SSA admixture and im not even sure those structutres were built by current people, may have been built by backmigration of non SSA peoples into africa.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago

Africa is a continent with few ways of travelling for any significant distance. There are very few natural bays, so no sea travel. As a series of plateaus, and given the climate, river travel was also minimal. If you don’t travel, you don’t get exposed to new ideas. You don’t interact with other cultures. Geography plays a huge role in the development of a culture, or the lack thereof.

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

Ah yes just like the Mesoamericans, Andean cultures, oh wait……..YIKES REDDITRINOS!

David Semloh
David Semloh
1 year ago

Mesoamericans and Andean cultures developed corn and potatoes and yams. Africans developed yams independently, but potatoes and corn are apparently much more productive, though not as much as rice (per acre). Rice arrived through the Arabs and Indonesians (Madagascar, circa 200 AD), but never spread widely. Java and New Guinea are also heavily tropical. New Guinea apparently developed crop agriculture in terraced fields about 9,000 years ago in the highlands.

David Semloh
David Semloh
1 year ago

Mesoamericans and Andean cultures developed corn and potatoes and yams. Africans developed yams independently, but potatoes and corn are apparently much more productive, though not as much as rice (per acre). Rice arrived through the Arabs and Indonesians (Madagascar, circa 200 AD), but never spread widely. Java and New Guinea are also heavily tropical. New Guinea apparently developed crop agriculture in terraced fields about 9,000 years ago in the highlands.

David Semloh
David Semloh
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

Also diseases had a hand, especially malaria. Traveling overland did happen, but nation states tended to not last long south of the Sahel grasslands other than Ethiopian areas, which were initially linked by sea travel with Egypt and Persia for a few thousand years, and India regularly since about 100 AD. European and Middle Eastern cultivated grasses never made it to Southern Africa, other than the Phoenician trip about 600 BC, which records them sowing a crop there for replenishing stocks.

Last edited 1 year ago by David Semloh
adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

Ah yes just like the Mesoamericans, Andean cultures, oh wait……..YIKES REDDITRINOS!

David Semloh
David Semloh
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

Also diseases had a hand, especially malaria. Traveling overland did happen, but nation states tended to not last long south of the Sahel grasslands other than Ethiopian areas, which were initially linked by sea travel with Egypt and Persia for a few thousand years, and India regularly since about 100 AD. European and Middle Eastern cultivated grasses never made it to Southern Africa, other than the Phoenician trip about 600 BC, which records them sowing a crop there for replenishing stocks.

Last edited 1 year ago by David Semloh
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Africans are learning fast and will eventually put us to shame if we don’t learn. The west is not what it was. We have to accept that. Britain is a decaying culture obsessed with sexual identity and political correctness. We see it in the universities and in the nationalised organisations wherever government touches the culture.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
1 year ago

Some of those cultures were African as well though

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago

Africa is a continent with few ways of travelling for any significant distance. There are very few natural bays, so no sea travel. As a series of plateaus, and given the climate, river travel was also minimal. If you don’t travel, you don’t get exposed to new ideas. You don’t interact with other cultures. Geography plays a huge role in the development of a culture, or the lack thereof.

Bobs Yeruncle
Bobs Yeruncle
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

I think it’s naive in the extreme to believe the private sector is free of woke ideology and Universities are overwhelmed by it. In reality all of the organs of society are equally in thrall to it. Only recently the Nationwide asked someone on twitter to ‘review’ their comment criticising some adult baby fetishists (sorry transgender people) for being unkind. Private sector is awash with EDI statements and relentless virtue signalling.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Bobs Yeruncle

Yes you are right. It is also in the what I call global companies but I do not find it in the small businesses where I have worked. They appear normal there.

Still need to be careful
Still need to be careful
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

True, but as a small business owner, we need to watch what we say online because one wrong comment can ruin our business. We employ people who are willing to work rather than SJWs who want to save minorities.

Still need to be careful
Still need to be careful
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

True, but as a small business owner, we need to watch what we say online because one wrong comment can ruin our business. We employ people who are willing to work rather than SJWs who want to save minorities.

anna moore
anna moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Bobs Yeruncle

I think that the fact that the twitter/ social media aspect of corporate jobs tend to go to the young folk is partly to blame here rather than a reflection of upper echleons where experienced staff are actually getting on with running a business

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Bobs Yeruncle

Yes you are right. It is also in the what I call global companies but I do not find it in the small businesses where I have worked. They appear normal there.

anna moore
anna moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Bobs Yeruncle

I think that the fact that the twitter/ social media aspect of corporate jobs tend to go to the young folk is partly to blame here rather than a reflection of upper echleons where experienced staff are actually getting on with running a business

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

It’s bigger than universities and academics. Unfortunately we have globalists with the same aim but who have $billions to back their cause. The battle is much bigger as it is in politics and affects everybody. I am amazed at how they are pushing myths today which most seem to believe. Look at the government in the Netherlands and Canada not to mention the USA itself..

Last edited 1 year ago by Tony Conrad
Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

With apologies to Winston Churchill, equity, diversity and inclusion is the equal sharing of mediocrity.

Kevin Johnson
Kevin Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

All epochal work has always been done by outsiders. University departments are set up to teach the prevailing method, to articulate it more closely, and to incorporate more evidence into its proofs. Revolutions in learning are always provoked by outsiders who show the limits of that prevailing method and propose another. But progress is never really gradual: it’s revolutionary. Look at what happened to phlogiston, or spontaneous generation, or geocentric astronomy. It’s one or the other, and a method with superior power to integrate evidence into its explanations must always obliterate the weaker. Check Kuhn’s Structure of Scientific Revolutions, for instance.

And of course the tenured professors of the weaker, outdated method will fight like demons to maintain their reputations and to suppress any actual innovations.

Peter Nockoldd
Peter Nockoldd
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Johnson

And how do the outsiders get anyone to listen? Michael Ventris who deciphered Linear B was fortunate enough to get a slot on Radio 3 which led to one member of that particular establishment accepting his findings, but that’s the only example I know.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Nockoldd

The Aussie doctor who found that ulcers were caused by an H. Pylori infection took 20 years to make the medical profession accept his findings and it took infecting himself with it to prove it to them.

Kenda Grant
Kenda Grant
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

So true. How about cholesterol vs homocysteine? Heaven forbid if big pharm couldn’t sell all those statin drugs. In a similar vein, I came across, quite by accident, a book called The Great Pretender by Susannah Cahalan (2019) It’s eye opening (especially in light of all the Covid “science”) It explores how our definition and treatment of mental health was (is) heavily influenced by (spoiler alert) a fraudulent research paper that helped “prove” the anti-psychiatry movement of the time. I see why all these creative researchers are moving “underground” – you don’t get published unless you support the narrative, even if your paper is redacted, no one seems to notice and it’s “evidence’ continues to be used. The goal isn’t truth or understanding, it’s success and tenure.

Kenda Grant
Kenda Grant
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

So true. How about cholesterol vs homocysteine? Heaven forbid if big pharm couldn’t sell all those statin drugs. In a similar vein, I came across, quite by accident, a book called The Great Pretender by Susannah Cahalan (2019) It’s eye opening (especially in light of all the Covid “science”) It explores how our definition and treatment of mental health was (is) heavily influenced by (spoiler alert) a fraudulent research paper that helped “prove” the anti-psychiatry movement of the time. I see why all these creative researchers are moving “underground” – you don’t get published unless you support the narrative, even if your paper is redacted, no one seems to notice and it’s “evidence’ continues to be used. The goal isn’t truth or understanding, it’s success and tenure.

Michael Richardson
Michael Richardson
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Nockoldd

I think the ultimate example of this is that bloke who worked as a patent clerk, now what was his name?

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Nockoldd

The Aussie doctor who found that ulcers were caused by an H. Pylori infection took 20 years to make the medical profession accept his findings and it took infecting himself with it to prove it to them.

Michael Richardson
Michael Richardson
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Nockoldd

I think the ultimate example of this is that bloke who worked as a patent clerk, now what was his name?

TERRY JESSOP
TERRY JESSOP
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Johnson

Ah, mention of Thomas Kuhn takes me back.
I wonder what he or Karl Popper, or Imre Lakatos, would have thought of “woke”.
Perhaps they would think that “woke” is just the latest paradigm shift.
But hopefully they would be unanimous in thinking that this new paradigm is actually a backwards step!

Peter Nockoldd
Peter Nockoldd
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Johnson

And how do the outsiders get anyone to listen? Michael Ventris who deciphered Linear B was fortunate enough to get a slot on Radio 3 which led to one member of that particular establishment accepting his findings, but that’s the only example I know.

TERRY JESSOP
TERRY JESSOP
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Johnson

Ah, mention of Thomas Kuhn takes me back.
I wonder what he or Karl Popper, or Imre Lakatos, would have thought of “woke”.
Perhaps they would think that “woke” is just the latest paradigm shift.
But hopefully they would be unanimous in thinking that this new paradigm is actually a backwards step!

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

The fact that most ordinary people can plainly see that this illogical and unscientific Wokeness is infesting every scientific discipline goes a long way to explaining why more and more people are dismissive of or even antagonistic to climate change abatement measures, vaccines, even such common sense notions as using masks (voluntarily) to protect themselves from airborne illness. It’s true; we no longer “trust the science,” and for good reason.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

As I said elsewhere, the world now is full of vociferous minorities. You are no lo ger allowed to join the silent majority and stay silent. You have to appease the minorities by pretending to sympathise with them. This is what woke means.

My own favourite is that the western world is grindi g to a halt because people are eating too much. But the f-word is banned and doctors are not allowed to advise their patients to lose weight.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

And the non vociferous minorities of various types – Asian or Indian immigrants, religious minorities in Arab lands, conservatives in American campuses – don’t count.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

And the non vociferous minorities of various types – Asian or Indian immigrants, religious minorities in Arab lands, conservatives in American campuses – don’t count.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Lee

As I said elsewhere, the world now is full of vociferous minorities. You are no lo ger allowed to join the silent majority and stay silent. You have to appease the minorities by pretending to sympathise with them. This is what woke means.

My own favourite is that the western world is grindi g to a halt because people are eating too much. But the f-word is banned and doctors are not allowed to advise their patients to lose weight.

Karen O
Karen O
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Yes. But relinquishing the institutions? What a loss, please no.

Chauncey Gardiner
Chauncey Gardiner
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

The examiner from the Swiss patent office might agree!

Douglas Proudfoot
Douglas Proudfoot
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

This model of secret research and public suppression of research is not sustainable in archeology or any other fields. Over time, suppressing knowledge and meritocracy will destroy civilization.

There’s no room for politics in a sewage system. If it’s not set up on sound engineering, no amount of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will make it work.

While it’s great that there’s a short term work around, in the longer run we have to fight these idiots. If we don’t, their ideology will kill our children and grand children with a civilization collapse

Erik Hildinger
Erik Hildinger
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

This is a question to the author of the article (or anyone else who can answer it). Sorry to put it in a reply, but, for some reason the site is not letting me comment directly.
Where on the Internet can one easily find this anonymous or perhaps hidden research? On blogs? On particular websites?

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Well said! (And much better than me – see above, or below).
Not quite convinced about Mr. Musk though, it seems to me to be vanity rather than innovative research (and he is rich enough to be as vain as he likes), there is nothing new in moving something with an explosive. But he does seem positive and enthusiastic and I can’t condemn that attitude, especially when contrasted with the dismal negativity that has become the new norm.

Last edited 1 year ago by Leejon 0
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Archeologists annoy racist zealots by clearly displaying that ancient civilisations and… note the word ” cultures”… yes ” cultures” could design and construct buildings and roads over a thousand years ago that Africans are still incapable of doing.

Bobs Yeruncle
Bobs Yeruncle
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

I think it’s naive in the extreme to believe the private sector is free of woke ideology and Universities are overwhelmed by it. In reality all of the organs of society are equally in thrall to it. Only recently the Nationwide asked someone on twitter to ‘review’ their comment criticising some adult baby fetishists (sorry transgender people) for being unkind. Private sector is awash with EDI statements and relentless virtue signalling.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

It’s bigger than universities and academics. Unfortunately we have globalists with the same aim but who have $billions to back their cause. The battle is much bigger as it is in politics and affects everybody. I am amazed at how they are pushing myths today which most seem to believe. Look at the government in the Netherlands and Canada not to mention the USA itself..

Last edited 1 year ago by Tony Conrad
Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

With apologies to Winston Churchill, equity, diversity and inclusion is the equal sharing of mediocrity.

Kevin Johnson
Kevin Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

All epochal work has always been done by outsiders. University departments are set up to teach the prevailing method, to articulate it more closely, and to incorporate more evidence into its proofs. Revolutions in learning are always provoked by outsiders who show the limits of that prevailing method and propose another. But progress is never really gradual: it’s revolutionary. Look at what happened to phlogiston, or spontaneous generation, or geocentric astronomy. It’s one or the other, and a method with superior power to integrate evidence into its explanations must always obliterate the weaker. Check Kuhn’s Structure of Scientific Revolutions, for instance.

And of course the tenured professors of the weaker, outdated method will fight like demons to maintain their reputations and to suppress any actual innovations.

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

The fact that most ordinary people can plainly see that this illogical and unscientific Wokeness is infesting every scientific discipline goes a long way to explaining why more and more people are dismissive of or even antagonistic to climate change abatement measures, vaccines, even such common sense notions as using masks (voluntarily) to protect themselves from airborne illness. It’s true; we no longer “trust the science,” and for good reason.

Karen O
Karen O
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Yes. But relinquishing the institutions? What a loss, please no.

Chauncey Gardiner
Chauncey Gardiner
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

The examiner from the Swiss patent office might agree!

Douglas Proudfoot
Douglas Proudfoot
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

This model of secret research and public suppression of research is not sustainable in archeology or any other fields. Over time, suppressing knowledge and meritocracy will destroy civilization.

There’s no room for politics in a sewage system. If it’s not set up on sound engineering, no amount of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will make it work.

While it’s great that there’s a short term work around, in the longer run we have to fight these idiots. If we don’t, their ideology will kill our children and grand children with a civilization collapse

Erik Hildinger
Erik Hildinger
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

This is a question to the author of the article (or anyone else who can answer it). Sorry to put it in a reply, but, for some reason the site is not letting me comment directly.
Where on the Internet can one easily find this anonymous or perhaps hidden research? On blogs? On particular websites?

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

Just this week I was discussing something similar with a colleague. I predict that all the best paradigm busting research is going to be done by private corporations starting about now and for the foreseeable future. Universities are no longer accepting of the type of difficult but brilliant people who break paradigms. Instead they have diversity quotas, respectful workplace policies, and disdain for meritocracy. How did Elon Musk build a rocket company in less than a decade? Because he is the opposite of all that – and he attracts the people who are the opposite of all that. They may not be the best social company – but they are rocket scientists. So universities will become mediocre or worse and a new generation of private companies will foster great science. Bringing it back to the article – the next great breakthrough in archeology will probably come from ‘amateur’ archeologists while their brethren in the academy are busy working on their Equity and Diversity statements.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peter Johnson
D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago

The Maori people arrived in New Zealand circa 1320-1350 AD.
The Anglo Saxons arrived in Britain circa 500-600 AD.
No-one would deny that the Maori are an ethnic group, or that New Zealand is their land.
Progressive academics deny that English is an ethnicity at all.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Let’s face the vast majority of those who “deny that English is an ethnicity at all” are just sore losers. Best NOT to ‘give them the time of day’ as we used to say.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

English is an ethnicity and a lot more so than Scottish. See Hugh Trevor-Roper’s book.

But these things are always a matter of degree. How far back do you go to define an ethnicity?

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris W
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Good to hear mention of the late Lord Dacre.

As to “How far back do you go to define an ethnicity?”………Pass.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Good to hear mention of the late Lord Dacre.

As to “How far back do you go to define an ethnicity?”………Pass.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

English is an ethnicity and a lot more so than Scottish. See Hugh Trevor-Roper’s book.

But these things are always a matter of degree. How far back do you go to define an ethnicity?

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris W
Lennon Ó Náraigh
Lennon Ó Náraigh
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

The Maori people were also extremely warlike. In 1835 they invaded the Chatham Islands, committed genocide, and enslaved the indigenous island population.

Bobs Yeruncle
Bobs Yeruncle
1 year ago

And so indigenous and connected to their land that they hunted the giant flightless Moa to extinction in quick time.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago
Reply to  Bobs Yeruncle

Like any population moving into a new habitat, competition and predation and environmental alteration ensue – no matter what the animal – human or otherwise. For example the destiny of the marsupial fauna and mega fauna of S America after the Panama land bridge was established for mammalian invasion.
The Maori also made extinct the Huia and they introduced the Polynesian rat that began to lay waste to bird pops via egg predation. They also engaged in slash and burn culture.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago
Reply to  Bobs Yeruncle

Like any population moving into a new habitat, competition and predation and environmental alteration ensue – no matter what the animal – human or otherwise. For example the destiny of the marsupial fauna and mega fauna of S America after the Panama land bridge was established for mammalian invasion.
The Maori also made extinct the Huia and they introduced the Polynesian rat that began to lay waste to bird pops via egg predation. They also engaged in slash and burn culture.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

A bit like the Barbary pirates then who enslaved Britons as well as Icelanders and a lot of other white peoples.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Even some Irish ‘beauties’ from Baltimore, County Cork.
They must have fetched a good price in the Slave Souk in Algiers.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

I seriously doubt that there is a human alive today that doesn’t have someone who was a slave at some point in their ancestry.
I also seriously doubt that there is a human alive today that doesn’t have someone who was a slave owner at some point in their ancestry.
The etymology of the word “slave” itself comes from Slavs, the most commonly enslaved peoples in Europe.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

Absolutely – and they probably also had an anti-slavery campaigner in their ancestry.
But if you are white English you are personally responsible for the deeds of your slave owning ancestors but get no credit for the slaves or anti-slavery campaigners in your ancestry.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Merriam

Absolutely – and they probably also had an anti-slavery campaigner in their ancestry.
But if you are white English you are personally responsible for the deeds of your slave owning ancestors but get no credit for the slaves or anti-slavery campaigners in your ancestry.

TERRY JESSOP
TERRY JESSOP
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

And don’t forget the Swedes and Danes (a.k.a. “Norsemen” or “Vikings”) who had a thriving slave trade of English and (especially) Irish captives.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Even some Irish ‘beauties’ from Baltimore, County Cork.
They must have fetched a good price in the Slave Souk in Algiers.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

I seriously doubt that there is a human alive today that doesn’t have someone who was a slave at some point in their ancestry.
I also seriously doubt that there is a human alive today that doesn’t have someone who was a slave owner at some point in their ancestry.
The etymology of the word “slave” itself comes from Slavs, the most commonly enslaved peoples in Europe.

TERRY JESSOP
TERRY JESSOP
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

And don’t forget the Swedes and Danes (a.k.a. “Norsemen” or “Vikings”) who had a thriving slave trade of English and (especially) Irish captives.

Fiona Hok
Fiona Hok
1 year ago

Sssshhh!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Sounds like the Irish in the late fourth and early fifth century!
But at least you ‘picked up’ St Patrick!

David Semloh
David Semloh
1 year ago

As recalled, a British ship brought the Maori warriors over some seven years after the islands were claimed by Britain, led by the chief Matioro arrived on the brig Lord Rodney. Supposedly the first mate of the ship had been ‘kidnapped and threatened with death’ unless the captain took the Māori settlers on board.
Andrew Piper (2012). “New Zealand Colonial Propaganda: The Use of Cannibalism, Enslavement, Genocide and Myth to Legitimise Colonial Conquest”
The local company unsuccessfully tried to even sell the islands to the Germans in 1841. It was a very ugly chapter, and the Moriori people were only declared released from slavery by the local UK magistrate some 21 years later, in 1863.
But the Maoris were often very violent people as mentioned. Apparently until recently it was not unknown for some one to taunt another by saying “My grandfather ate your grandfather”. And of course much of history has been very vicious with players of every other ‘race’ in the terrible passage of time, quite unassisted by “Caucasian” elements.
Point well taken.

Last edited 1 year ago by David Semloh
Bobs Yeruncle
Bobs Yeruncle
1 year ago

And so indigenous and connected to their land that they hunted the giant flightless Moa to extinction in quick time.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

A bit like the Barbary pirates then who enslaved Britons as well as Icelanders and a lot of other white peoples.

Fiona Hok
Fiona Hok
1 year ago

Sssshhh!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Sounds like the Irish in the late fourth and early fifth century!
But at least you ‘picked up’ St Patrick!

David Semloh
David Semloh
1 year ago

As recalled, a British ship brought the Maori warriors over some seven years after the islands were claimed by Britain, led by the chief Matioro arrived on the brig Lord Rodney. Supposedly the first mate of the ship had been ‘kidnapped and threatened with death’ unless the captain took the Māori settlers on board.
Andrew Piper (2012). “New Zealand Colonial Propaganda: The Use of Cannibalism, Enslavement, Genocide and Myth to Legitimise Colonial Conquest”
The local company unsuccessfully tried to even sell the islands to the Germans in 1841. It was a very ugly chapter, and the Moriori people were only declared released from slavery by the local UK magistrate some 21 years later, in 1863.
But the Maoris were often very violent people as mentioned. Apparently until recently it was not unknown for some one to taunt another by saying “My grandfather ate your grandfather”. And of course much of history has been very vicious with players of every other ‘race’ in the terrible passage of time, quite unassisted by “Caucasian” elements.
Point well taken.

Last edited 1 year ago by David Semloh
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Maybe not but it is certainly a culture that did amazingly well in the recent past.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

NZ *is* not their land. As I understand it, the Crown, after a series of bloody wars, arranged a relationship between the Pakeha and the various tribal chieftains via the Treaty of Waitangi. It was signed by many chiefs, though not all. Two Treaties were signed, one in English and one in Maori and there were subtle differences between the two that may have created a disadvantage to Maori. But the Maori understanding is legitimate and hence now, via reparations arising from the Treaty, NZ has a bi cultural ownership system.

Josie Bowen
Josie Bowen
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Such an excellent point. Thanks.

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Austro melanisians would like to have a word with you about the Maori sir.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Let’s face the vast majority of those who “deny that English is an ethnicity at all” are just sore losers. Best NOT to ‘give them the time of day’ as we used to say.

Lennon Ó Náraigh
Lennon Ó Náraigh
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

The Maori people were also extremely warlike. In 1835 they invaded the Chatham Islands, committed genocide, and enslaved the indigenous island population.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Maybe not but it is certainly a culture that did amazingly well in the recent past.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

NZ *is* not their land. As I understand it, the Crown, after a series of bloody wars, arranged a relationship between the Pakeha and the various tribal chieftains via the Treaty of Waitangi. It was signed by many chiefs, though not all. Two Treaties were signed, one in English and one in Maori and there were subtle differences between the two that may have created a disadvantage to Maori. But the Maori understanding is legitimate and hence now, via reparations arising from the Treaty, NZ has a bi cultural ownership system.

Josie Bowen
Josie Bowen
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Such an excellent point. Thanks.

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Austro melanisians would like to have a word with you about the Maori sir.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago

The Maori people arrived in New Zealand circa 1320-1350 AD.
The Anglo Saxons arrived in Britain circa 500-600 AD.
No-one would deny that the Maori are an ethnic group, or that New Zealand is their land.
Progressive academics deny that English is an ethnicity at all.

Jim Jam
Jim Jam
1 year ago

Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past

I know it’s becoming a cliche these days to cite Orwell, but I’m hard pressed to find a more concise and accurate summation of the motivies and strategy driving those who have captured and that now dominate every institution worth mentioning. I’m not in the slightest bit suprised that anonymity and shadowy forums are having to be used to circumvent the religion of progressivism in archaeology. There was certainly no reason to think this particular field would have been able to withstand capture when mathematics and engineering are begining to fall under the deluded control of reality-warping leftists.

The dominace is now so totalling that arguably the most popular science journal on the planet has felt able to openly proclaim that it will no longer publish information that fails to lend support to progressivism or that could possibly be used to offer a rebuttal to a view of the world that the academic left have already decided is absolute truth:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220829165223/https://quillette.com/2022/08/28/the-fall-of-nature

Dark times ahead.

When an individual subordinates truth to ideology, the results are always damaging. When all existing institutions within a state decide to start playing the same game, we can plainly see from history that the results are always catastrophic. And it’s a dismal irony that the persistent and determined redwashing of communist lunacy from education systems that has in large part allowed this takeover to occur here in the first place.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jim Jam
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Jam

Brilliant, in a mere twenty one lines you have “lanced the boil”!
Well done Sir.

Jim Jam
Jim Jam
1 year ago

If only it were that easy!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Jam

You’ve made a splendid start!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Jam

No. But you have to know the truth first before you can deal with the lies.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Jam

You’ve made a splendid start!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Jam

No. But you have to know the truth first before you can deal with the lies.

Jim Jam
Jim Jam
1 year ago

If only it were that easy!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Jam

Brilliant, in a mere twenty one lines you have “lanced the boil”!
Well done Sir.

Jim Jam
Jim Jam
1 year ago

Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past

I know it’s becoming a cliche these days to cite Orwell, but I’m hard pressed to find a more concise and accurate summation of the motivies and strategy driving those who have captured and that now dominate every institution worth mentioning. I’m not in the slightest bit suprised that anonymity and shadowy forums are having to be used to circumvent the religion of progressivism in archaeology. There was certainly no reason to think this particular field would have been able to withstand capture when mathematics and engineering are begining to fall under the deluded control of reality-warping leftists.

The dominace is now so totalling that arguably the most popular science journal on the planet has felt able to openly proclaim that it will no longer publish information that fails to lend support to progressivism or that could possibly be used to offer a rebuttal to a view of the world that the academic left have already decided is absolute truth:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220829165223/https://quillette.com/2022/08/28/the-fall-of-nature

Dark times ahead.

When an individual subordinates truth to ideology, the results are always damaging. When all existing institutions within a state decide to start playing the same game, we can plainly see from history that the results are always catastrophic. And it’s a dismal irony that the persistent and determined redwashing of communist lunacy from education systems that has in large part allowed this takeover to occur here in the first place.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jim Jam
Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago

My partner and I were discussing today the dismal state of academic research, where quantity and conformity are preferable to quality and innovative thinking – science (in our case) as a bureaucratic exercise rather than exciting discovery. Universities seem to have rejected the joys of thinking (they are not alone!). Your article has created a rare mood of cheerfulness. I wish you luck in your future discoveries; sadly, I fear, you will need it.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

You couldn’t have said a truer word. One can see how communist revolutions triumphed.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

As a mature postgrad, coming back into academia really has been a depressing lesson in the extent of the ideological monoculture that dominates academia, especially within humanities.

I find it thoroughly disheartening to see average quality papers on “queering” something or other being viewed as cutting edge research simply by merit of the political position being promoted, because I will not sell my personal integrity or subjugate my own political beliefs in order to further my academic career.

I can hardly wait to finish my current degree and escape from this environment, and I cannot help but wonder how many others like me, who have the desire and skill to conduct academic research, have simply walked away due to this environment.

Last edited 1 year ago by AL Crowe
Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

When Dr. Robert Gallo discovered that viruses jumped species, which bucked the traditional wisdom, the new landscape took some getting used to. Academia needs some recalibration as well.
Academia has degraded itself enormously by chasing progressive values and chasing off conservatives who look today rather like the true classically liberal thinkers. When I was in University in the 1970’s anything was up for discussion. The Second Amendment was a radical tool for the protection of liberty, not a cover for weapons of mass murder. Academia has made two generations more stupid rather than more enlightened.
Rather than discard the 2nd Am, we should be thinking more critically about why violence is an acceptable tool of resistance and grievance (read Palestinians, BLM, queer and outsider revenge) than what it really is – unacceptable in civilized society. Mental illness including sex-changes, political aggression, snowflakes and outsiders who are bullied – when these are made the object of our attention and their grievances are allowed to take up all of the air in the room, no wonder they are led to the brink of mass murder.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

You couldn’t have said a truer word. One can see how communist revolutions triumphed.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

As a mature postgrad, coming back into academia really has been a depressing lesson in the extent of the ideological monoculture that dominates academia, especially within humanities.

I find it thoroughly disheartening to see average quality papers on “queering” something or other being viewed as cutting edge research simply by merit of the political position being promoted, because I will not sell my personal integrity or subjugate my own political beliefs in order to further my academic career.

I can hardly wait to finish my current degree and escape from this environment, and I cannot help but wonder how many others like me, who have the desire and skill to conduct academic research, have simply walked away due to this environment.

Last edited 1 year ago by AL Crowe
Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago
Reply to  Leejon 0

When Dr. Robert Gallo discovered that viruses jumped species, which bucked the traditional wisdom, the new landscape took some getting used to. Academia needs some recalibration as well.
Academia has degraded itself enormously by chasing progressive values and chasing off conservatives who look today rather like the true classically liberal thinkers. When I was in University in the 1970’s anything was up for discussion. The Second Amendment was a radical tool for the protection of liberty, not a cover for weapons of mass murder. Academia has made two generations more stupid rather than more enlightened.
Rather than discard the 2nd Am, we should be thinking more critically about why violence is an acceptable tool of resistance and grievance (read Palestinians, BLM, queer and outsider revenge) than what it really is – unacceptable in civilized society. Mental illness including sex-changes, political aggression, snowflakes and outsiders who are bullied – when these are made the object of our attention and their grievances are allowed to take up all of the air in the room, no wonder they are led to the brink of mass murder.

Leejon 0
Leejon 0
1 year ago

My partner and I were discussing today the dismal state of academic research, where quantity and conformity are preferable to quality and innovative thinking – science (in our case) as a bureaucratic exercise rather than exciting discovery. Universities seem to have rejected the joys of thinking (they are not alone!). Your article has created a rare mood of cheerfulness. I wish you luck in your future discoveries; sadly, I fear, you will need it.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

Digital archaeologists of the future will pore over these secret servers as previous generations have scrutinised the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Rosetta Stone.

Truth will out, and thanks to the author for his lucid description of the cultural battles at the interface of academia and actual scholarship.

Academia – the modern day equivalent of the Inquisition in its distortions and simple lack of humanity. We once used to ponder how they could get it so barbarically wrong. Now we know. We also know that ultimately, it failed. I guess that’s why the author’s description of the frisson felt within the hidden online community is so inspiring.

Z Zabrak
Z Zabrak
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

“Academia – the modern day equivalent of the Inquisition …”
What a brilliant observation.
My favourite is:
“Remainers – the modern equivalent of Traitors to the Realm …”

Last edited 1 year ago by Z Zabrak
Norman Powers
Norman Powers
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Unfortunately they probably won’t. Online writing is different to paper writing. It exists only for as long as the server exists and has power, connectivity and maintenance. Yes, there are efforts like archive.org but they are expensive and centralized efforts that can be censored quite easily.
Books have a certain kind of resistance to them because once printed they can last for a very long time if well kept, and destroying one copy doesn’t destroy them all. The web was never really designed for knowledge preservation on historical timelines. Most web documents written in the past are now gone for good with no easy way to retrieve them.
This isn’t something fundamental to technology or the internet. There could be a more book-like web, in which the act of downloading a document was also the act of permanently archiving it and resharing it. There have been experiments with such things. But the inertia behind the current ways of working are enormous. People want their stuff to be read, so it goes on the web because that’s what’s most convenient, and so alternative systems struggle to take off.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

I largely agree from the technological point of view, but i suppose my observation was made more metaphorically. This article, for instance, will likely become part of the historical record which just might lead those engaged in research in the future to take their investigations further.

Isabel Ward
Isabel Ward
1 year ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

Yes and no. You are seeming to suggest there is only one server and no backup. Yes, much will be lost (that has always been the case) but I doubt all.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

Whilst I suspect that you are largely correct about the likelihood of much purely online content vanishing, I also suspect that there will be examples of individuals finding troves of “lost” research on external hard drives dug out of relatives attics, or stuffed amongst the old pictures and paperwork in private archives of family history passed from hand to hand.

I suppose the best option for ensuring such work is preserved is to always back it up independent of the internet or any one computer, and hope that sufficient copies survive through to the point where academia might have moved beyond its current ideological crusade.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

I largely agree from the technological point of view, but i suppose my observation was made more metaphorically. This article, for instance, will likely become part of the historical record which just might lead those engaged in research in the future to take their investigations further.

Isabel Ward
Isabel Ward
1 year ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

Yes and no. You are seeming to suggest there is only one server and no backup. Yes, much will be lost (that has always been the case) but I doubt all.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

Whilst I suspect that you are largely correct about the likelihood of much purely online content vanishing, I also suspect that there will be examples of individuals finding troves of “lost” research on external hard drives dug out of relatives attics, or stuffed amongst the old pictures and paperwork in private archives of family history passed from hand to hand.

I suppose the best option for ensuring such work is preserved is to always back it up independent of the internet or any one computer, and hope that sufficient copies survive through to the point where academia might have moved beyond its current ideological crusade.

Z Zabrak
Z Zabrak
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

“Academia – the modern day equivalent of the Inquisition …”
What a brilliant observation.
My favourite is:
“Remainers – the modern equivalent of Traitors to the Realm …”

Last edited 1 year ago by Z Zabrak
Norman Powers
Norman Powers
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Unfortunately they probably won’t. Online writing is different to paper writing. It exists only for as long as the server exists and has power, connectivity and maintenance. Yes, there are efforts like archive.org but they are expensive and centralized efforts that can be censored quite easily.
Books have a certain kind of resistance to them because once printed they can last for a very long time if well kept, and destroying one copy doesn’t destroy them all. The web was never really designed for knowledge preservation on historical timelines. Most web documents written in the past are now gone for good with no easy way to retrieve them.
This isn’t something fundamental to technology or the internet. There could be a more book-like web, in which the act of downloading a document was also the act of permanently archiving it and resharing it. There have been experiments with such things. But the inertia behind the current ways of working are enormous. People want their stuff to be read, so it goes on the web because that’s what’s most convenient, and so alternative systems struggle to take off.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

Digital archaeologists of the future will pore over these secret servers as previous generations have scrutinised the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Rosetta Stone.

Truth will out, and thanks to the author for his lucid description of the cultural battles at the interface of academia and actual scholarship.

Academia – the modern day equivalent of the Inquisition in its distortions and simple lack of humanity. We once used to ponder how they could get it so barbarically wrong. Now we know. We also know that ultimately, it failed. I guess that’s why the author’s description of the frisson felt within the hidden online community is so inspiring.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago

I keep reading stories similar to this. Such a sad state of affairs. I’m beginning to think the very root of the issues plaguing the west can be traced to the rot infecting our education institutions.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago

I keep reading stories similar to this. Such a sad state of affairs. I’m beginning to think the very root of the issues plaguing the west can be traced to the rot infecting our education institutions.

Fafa Fafa
Fafa Fafa
1 year ago

This has been one of the most dispiriting things I have read about today’s academic environment. Samizdat in “Western Democracies” – we have really sunken that low?

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
Reply to  Fafa Fafa

Yes, and it’s worse than you think.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Fafa Fafa

Samizdat in “Western Democracies”
Just what came to my mind.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago

Samizdat in a parallel polis?

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago

Samizdat in a parallel polis?

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
Reply to  Fafa Fafa

Yes, and it’s worse than you think.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Fafa Fafa

Samizdat in “Western Democracies”
Just what came to my mind.

Fafa Fafa
Fafa Fafa
1 year ago

This has been one of the most dispiriting things I have read about today’s academic environment. Samizdat in “Western Democracies” – we have really sunken that low?

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago

So the truth goes underground, passed secretly from hand to hand.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

Like Canticle for Lebowitz

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Interesting. I didn’t know about the book. I see that it’s never been out of print.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Or Fahrenheit 451. Books are not yet routinely burned but many are criticised on political grounds or denied publication whether that is appropriate or not.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

Metaphorical burning?

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

Metaphorical burning?

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Classic SF, and a good read.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

And what’s on your shopping list? 🙂

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Interesting. I didn’t know about the book. I see that it’s never been out of print.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Or Fahrenheit 451. Books are not yet routinely burned but many are criticised on political grounds or denied publication whether that is appropriate or not.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Classic SF, and a good read.

Diane Merriam
Diane Merriam
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

And what’s on your shopping list? 🙂

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Brett H

Like Canticle for Lebowitz

Brett H
Brett H
1 year ago

So the truth goes underground, passed secretly from hand to hand.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

What a depressing situation. Reality itself itself is completely under siege and those that wish to debate Truth are forced to hide in the shadows.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Are you sure you don’t have cause and effect reversed. I think that those who choose to remain in the shadows are giving strength to the arguments they despise – by not answering them.

Sharon Overy
Sharon Overy
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

How can you answer if you cannot publish or speak?

Sharon Overy
Sharon Overy
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

How can you answer if you cannot publish or speak?

Erik Hildinger
Erik Hildinger
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

What Liebeschuetz writes is interesting: “Archaeology can trace cultural diffusion, but it cannot be used to distinguish between peoples, and should not be used to trace migration. Arguments from language and etymology are irrelevant.” All but the first of the indicative statements in the passage are demonstrably untrue. The only way one can agree with the passage is to take his use of the verb “cannot” as meaning that archaeologists are not permitted to use archaeology to accomplish the tasks he disagrees with, and then to agree with him about this.

Last edited 1 year ago by Erik Hildinger
Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Are you sure you don’t have cause and effect reversed. I think that those who choose to remain in the shadows are giving strength to the arguments they despise – by not answering them.

Erik Hildinger
Erik Hildinger
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

What Liebeschuetz writes is interesting: “Archaeology can trace cultural diffusion, but it cannot be used to distinguish between peoples, and should not be used to trace migration. Arguments from language and etymology are irrelevant.” All but the first of the indicative statements in the passage are demonstrably untrue. The only way one can agree with the passage is to take his use of the verb “cannot” as meaning that archaeologists are not permitted to use archaeology to accomplish the tasks he disagrees with, and then to agree with him about this.

Last edited 1 year ago by Erik Hildinger
R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

What a depressing situation. Reality itself itself is completely under siege and those that wish to debate Truth are forced to hide in the shadows.

Tony Reardon
Tony Reardon
1 year ago

My readings suggest that there seems to be possibilities of human habitation in parts of Australia dating to 60-70,000 years B.P.. The earliest human remains we have uncovered (Mungo Man) date to around 45,000 B.P. This was discovered in the 1970s and before that the supposition was that modern humans arrived around 20-25,000 B.P. Evidence beyond about 60,000 years B.P. is very sketchy.
Each of these discoveries is taken to “prove” some unbroken culture which is held to be a good thing. However, when large scale genotyping of aboriginal Australians, New Guineans, island Southeast Asians and Indians was undertaken it found ancient associations between these groups with divergence times estimated at about 36,000 years ago. Further there is evidence of substantial gene flow between the Indian population and Australia well before European contact, estimated to have occurred during the Holocene about 4,200 years ago. This is also approximately when changes in tool technology, food processing, and the dingo appear in the Australian archaeological record, suggesting that these may be related to the migration from India.
There seems to be a reluctance to pursue further genotyping as it may well disturb the accepted narrative.

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Reardon

Everyone inherently knows how it works. Migrant groups slaughtering, enslaving and brutalising weaker locals and outbreeding them. Just look at Africa. The Bantus were a tiny group in Cameroon millenia ago, now they dominate all of Africa and have reduced the aboriginal bushmen and pygmies to barely thousands hiding in forests and mountains. Cultural change is usually bloody, traumatic and violent.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Precisely, just look what has happened in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Liverpool & Rochdale.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

I have to ask. What happened in Rochdale?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Is happening would be more correct!

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

Oh, OK.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

Oh, OK.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Is happening would be more correct!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Yeah. Dominated by a Scottish King then a Welsh King victorious in the Wars of the Roses.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Henry Tudor wasn’t a king at all. He just happened to be married to the widow of a king.
The Scots king James VI came later, after the Tudors had run out of offspring..

Last edited 1 year ago by D Glover
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Correct he was a USURPER!

Ludwig van Earwig
Ludwig van Earwig
1 year ago

No, James VI of Scotland had the best claim to the English throne when Elizabeth I died childless. A usurper is one who seizes the throne by violence or intrigue. Henry VII was a usurper, as were Richard III and Henry IV. And so were William and Mary – though the Brits prefer to call their takeover the “Glorious Revolution”.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

I thought it was clear that I meant Henry Tudor.

Nobody seriously doubted that James VI was the rightful heir.

You are absolutely correct about the ‘deceit’ surrounding the coup executed by William & Mary. I often wonder what would have happened had they lost?

There was certainly nothing particularly ‘glorious’ about their military coup. They were just lucky that James decided to ‘run away’.

Ludwig van Earwig
Ludwig van Earwig
1 year ago

Sorry, yes I thought about that possibility after I’d posted.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

No problem, these off-piste discussions are always fun!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

No problem, these off-piste discussions are always fun!

Ludwig van Earwig
Ludwig van Earwig
1 year ago

Sorry, yes I thought about that possibility after I’d posted.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

I thought it was clear that I meant Henry Tudor.

Nobody seriously doubted that James VI was the rightful heir.

You are absolutely correct about the ‘deceit’ surrounding the coup executed by William & Mary. I often wonder what would have happened had they lost?

There was certainly nothing particularly ‘glorious’ about their military coup. They were just lucky that James decided to ‘run away’.

Ludwig van Earwig
Ludwig van Earwig
1 year ago

No, James VI of Scotland had the best claim to the English throne when Elizabeth I died childless. A usurper is one who seizes the throne by violence or intrigue. Henry VII was a usurper, as were Richard III and Henry IV. And so were William and Mary – though the Brits prefer to call their takeover the “Glorious Revolution”.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Correct he was a USURPER!

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Henry Tudor wasn’t a king at all. He just happened to be married to the widow of a king.
The Scots king James VI came later, after the Tudors had run out of offspring..

Last edited 1 year ago by D Glover
Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

I have to ask. What happened in Rochdale?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Yeah. Dominated by a Scottish King then a Welsh King victorious in the Wars of the Roses.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

As I fear we are about to experience…

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

No it isn’t chud, they peacefully enriched the surrounding areas with their vibrant music and dance. Delete your hate speech immmediately and stop encouraging violence, you are a threat to democracy.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Precisely, just look what has happened in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Liverpool & Rochdale.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

As I fear we are about to experience…

adsffads sadfasdf
adsffads sadfasdf
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

No it isn’t chud, they peacefully enriched the surrounding areas with their vibrant music and dance. Delete your hate speech immmediately and stop encouraging violence, you are a threat to democracy.

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Reardon

There is a lot of power, money and land at stake, given events since Mabo.
And you have GenX and millennial Australians for whom the cool thing is to say that they “live on stolen land”. Things will get a lot worse before they can get better.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago

But they never think of giving back this stolen land. Perhaps the BM should just stand up and say – yes we stole everything -then they could keep it all, that seems to be all it takes to obtain absolution.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Everyone started from Adam and Eve and the world belongs to God. We don’t own it anyway but are allowed to live on it.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Our genetic diversity is hard to explain if we all come from Adam and Eve.
Then there’s the problem of Noah, his wife, three sons, and three daughters-in-law. I can only see one y chromosome there.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

There had to have been a First Human Couple which got us going in all our genetic diversity. It was probably more than 4000 years ago.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

There had to have been a First Human Couple which got us going in all our genetic diversity. It was probably more than 4000 years ago.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Our genetic diversity is hard to explain if we all come from Adam and Eve.
Then there’s the problem of Noah, his wife, three sons, and three daughters-in-law. I can only see one y chromosome there.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago

Perhaps the tail end GenX…

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago

But they never think of giving back this stolen land. Perhaps the BM should just stand up and say – yes we stole everything -then they could keep it all, that seems to be all it takes to obtain absolution.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Everyone started from Adam and Eve and the world belongs to God. We don’t own it anyway but are allowed to live on it.

Kat L
Kat L
1 year ago

Perhaps the tail end GenX…