Very odd piece with the author determined to find links between exercise and being right wing.
Reading this was not time well spent. It was even less well time spent writing it.
Sorry, N Foster, but again I’m having to piggy-back off another comment as again I have no facility to open a comment – it’s getting tiresome!
But enough of that. All the comments here, so far, have been very negative about this article, but I found it interesting; I’d never heard of this Liver guy until a previous article on UnHerd and this piece explained more about him and his ilk. By-the-way love his beard, can’t say the same for his torso though, but then I don’t imagine it’s supposed to appeal to women.
I think that all of this arises from a crisis of confidence among men, for so long it’s been all their way, and when physical strength was all inportant their sense of superiority was unchallenged, hence the desire to emphasis this strength. As the writer says there is no consensus on what a “real” man (or even a “real” woman) is, which is understandable as each is an individual, but among the men in my life these sorts of antics are laughable. I did once, a long time ago and in a different context, ask my husband what he thought distinguished a “real” man and his answer was simple – he provides for, loves and protects his family and does all he can to ensure the safety of his neighbours and country. When you come to think of it that’s what a “real” woman should do, too.
Linda
Try these (In turn!)
Reload page
Reboot computer
Clear browser cache
Try another browser
Something will work. It has happened to me. Computers are irrational creatures.
Irrational is being kind. I once spoke to one of our work’s computer nerds, who used to work in the computer software engineering industry, and he told me, in all seriousness, that you can take two computers straight from the factory, and the probabilty is that each will have a problem and the problem will be different in each case. What can you do; I think computers were put upon this earth to drive us all to impotent fury.
It doesn’t work for me either, so I will reply to you – with another thought: factoring in decreasing sperm count plus the new adulation of LGB etc. it would seem, at some level, we are making sure we do not exceed the level of population regeneration than that which would be sustainable. Post war the most desired shape for women was ultra feminine/child bearing.
It doesn’t work for me either, so I will reply to you – with another thought: factoring in decreasing sperm count plus the new adulation of LGB etc. it would seem, at some level, we are making sure we do not exceed the level of population regeneration than that which would be sustainable. Post war the most desired shape for women was ultra feminine/child bearing.
Irrational is being kind. I once spoke to one of our work’s computer nerds, who used to work in the computer software engineering industry, and he told me, in all seriousness, that you can take two computers straight from the factory, and the probabilty is that each will have a problem and the problem will be different in each case. What can you do; I think computers were put upon this earth to drive us all to impotent fury.
Perhaps the more interesting and important issue is the 50% drop in men’s fertility (sperm count) over the past 50 years. No one knows why this is happening. Some think it’s the environment – estrogens (pills) being dumped down the toilet and other drugs. Others point to the sorry physical shape that men are in today – fat, no exercise, smoking, the easy availability of drugs, etc. Perhaps, some men are realizing that to stay in shape is a good thing and in doing so, some take it too far. It could be as simple as that, and that it’s no so-called ‘Right wing’ phenomenon at all. Or perhaps men on the right see ‘diminishing manhood’ as an issue and ‘Lefties’ don’t care; Today, we have ‘Lefty stereotypes’ in the media and ads of the soft-spoken, wet-noodle, thin-and-no-physique techie who hasn’t seen daylight in years.
One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England.
One day this summer I was riding through Letchworth when the bus stopped and two dreadful-looking old men got on to it. They were both about sixty, both very short, pink, and chubby, and both hatless. One of them was obscenely bald, the other had long grey hair bobbed in the Lloyd George style. They were dressed in pistachio-coloured shirts and khaki shorts into which their huge bottoms were crammed so tightly that you could study every dimple.
Their appearance created a mild stir of horror on top of the bus. The man next to me, a commercial traveller I should say, glanced at me, at them, and back again at me, and murmured ‘Socialists’, as who should say, ‘Red Indians’.
Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier. As true in 2022 as in 1937.
What does “obscenely bald” mean? If he was bald it was hardly a life-style choice, and I’m pretty sure that even lefties and communists don’t make a political thing about being “obscenely bald”.
I think it is related to the hat wearing he refers to in the previous sentence. Maybe in the 1930s it was considered doubly uncouth to go around in public hatless if you were bald.
I think it is related to the hat wearing he refers to in the previous sentence. Maybe in the 1930s it was considered doubly uncouth to go around in public hatless if you were bald.
What does “obscenely bald” mean? If he was bald it was hardly a life-style choice, and I’m pretty sure that even lefties and communists don’t make a political thing about being “obscenely bald”.
LOL. I’ve not seen many of those “wet noodle” types holding attractive women on their arms, unless they were being paid as escorts. After all, regardless of what women might want to believe today, physically strong men (not so much grossly overdeveloped) attract women more than sickly and skinny ones for a variety of natural and biological reasons.
One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England.
One day this summer I was riding through Letchworth when the bus stopped and two dreadful-looking old men got on to it. They were both about sixty, both very short, pink, and chubby, and both hatless. One of them was obscenely bald, the other had long grey hair bobbed in the Lloyd George style. They were dressed in pistachio-coloured shirts and khaki shorts into which their huge bottoms were crammed so tightly that you could study every dimple.
Their appearance created a mild stir of horror on top of the bus. The man next to me, a commercial traveller I should say, glanced at me, at them, and back again at me, and murmured ‘Socialists’, as who should say, ‘Red Indians’.
Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier. As true in 2022 as in 1937.
LOL. I’ve not seen many of those “wet noodle” types holding attractive women on their arms, unless they were being paid as escorts. After all, regardless of what women might want to believe today, physically strong men (not so much grossly overdeveloped) attract women more than sickly and skinny ones for a variety of natural and biological reasons.
Yes, there is a crisis among men, especially the young. Unfortunately though most of the advice from progressives is for men to become more feminised, to act and think more like women. At the same time, any advice to grow up and take responsibility of characterised by progressives as “right wing” or even worse.
This article simply reinforces this view conflating what would be considered by most to be sensible advice with extreme ideas and lumping all in together.
The article adds nothing other than further confusion.
Yeah this happens to me all the time. I think it has to do with cached elements in your browser. Try forcing a full refresh on a page where you can’t comment : control + f5, or control + r depending on your OS – you can just do both.
Linda
Try these (In turn!)
Reload page
Reboot computer
Clear browser cache
Try another browser
Something will work. It has happened to me. Computers are irrational creatures.
Perhaps the more interesting and important issue is the 50% drop in men’s fertility (sperm count) over the past 50 years. No one knows why this is happening. Some think it’s the environment – estrogens (pills) being dumped down the toilet and other drugs. Others point to the sorry physical shape that men are in today – fat, no exercise, smoking, the easy availability of drugs, etc. Perhaps, some men are realizing that to stay in shape is a good thing and in doing so, some take it too far. It could be as simple as that, and that it’s no so-called ‘Right wing’ phenomenon at all. Or perhaps men on the right see ‘diminishing manhood’ as an issue and ‘Lefties’ don’t care; Today, we have ‘Lefty stereotypes’ in the media and ads of the soft-spoken, wet-noodle, thin-and-no-physique techie who hasn’t seen daylight in years.
Yes, there is a crisis among men, especially the young. Unfortunately though most of the advice from progressives is for men to become more feminised, to act and think more like women. At the same time, any advice to grow up and take responsibility of characterised by progressives as “right wing” or even worse.
This article simply reinforces this view conflating what would be considered by most to be sensible advice with extreme ideas and lumping all in together.
The article adds nothing other than further confusion.
Yeah this happens to me all the time. I think it has to do with cached elements in your browser. Try forcing a full refresh on a page where you can’t comment : control + f5, or control + r depending on your OS – you can just do both.
“And it’s a mentality that allows the manosphere to gleefully join the progressive Left in bidding farewell to any of the remaining civil norms that facilitate debate and compromise.”
Is that not rather the point. The Left have never had any interest in civil norms, debate and compromise and at the moment they seem to holds all the levers of power. So what is the point in debate and compromise. It conjures images of the Dutch journalist trying to reason with the Islamic extremist while he was being stabbed to death
Exactly. We should have no compunction whatsoever in treating woke ar_seholes with visceral rudeness. We’ve had enough of roadblocks, censorship, anti-white racism, and sadistic paedophilia.
That isn’t right-wing you mental infant, it’s a statement of facts that you characterize, foolishly, as intolerance. This is exactly why the left is only taken seriously from the sense that they hold all the levers of power to push their insane ideologies onto people who don’t want it. They want to normalize their deviance, their degeneracy, and their demoralization wherever they can along with your stupid smarm notwithstanding.
Quite a few angry people punching hard at straw men [aka ‘liberals’, ‘paedophiles’, etc] in the comments. I think they need quite a bit more than a workout to improve their outlooks. Not to mention their reasoning skills..
Quite a few angry people punching hard at straw men [aka ‘liberals’, ‘paedophiles’, etc] in the comments. I think they need quite a bit more than a workout to improve their outlooks. Not to mention their reasoning skills..
Do you think speaking out against anti-White racism and pedophilia is right-wing intolerance? So you are one of the anti-White racists and pedo. Hmm…what a weird way of exposing yourself like this. Congrats
That isn’t right-wing you mental infant, it’s a statement of facts that you characterize, foolishly, as intolerance. This is exactly why the left is only taken seriously from the sense that they hold all the levers of power to push their insane ideologies onto people who don’t want it. They want to normalize their deviance, their degeneracy, and their demoralization wherever they can along with your stupid smarm notwithstanding.
Do you think speaking out against anti-White racism and pedophilia is right-wing intolerance? So you are one of the anti-White racists and pedo. Hmm…what a weird way of exposing yourself like this. Congrats
Envy and jealousy? Why don’t you show us where I have displayed either of those?
Why, in fact, would I be envious of anyone, but especially of the type of people who think Donald Trump has anything to offer the world other than sexual assault and tax fraud?
Where’s the independent thinking I thought I was going to get from a website called “Unherd”? Too many foaming-at-the-mouth comments from unhinged, angry men slinging the same kind of crap I can get on Twitter, only more succinct there.
Where’s the independent thinking I thought I was going to get from a website called “Unherd”? Too many foaming-at-the-mouth comments from unhinged, angry men slinging the same kind of crap I can get on Twitter, only more succinct there.
Envy and jealousy? Why don’t you show us where I have displayed either of those?
Why, in fact, would I be envious of anyone, but especially of the type of people who think Donald Trump has anything to offer the world other than sexual assault and tax fraud?
The left that I grew up with certainly did believe in civil norms, owing far more to the Methodist Chapel than it did Marx.
Sadly those days are behind us.
Exactly. We should have no compunction whatsoever in treating woke ar_seholes with visceral rudeness. We’ve had enough of roadblocks, censorship, anti-white racism, and sadistic paedophilia.
The left that I grew up with certainly did believe in civil norms, owing far more to the Methodist Chapel than it did Marx.
Sadly those days are behind us.
I’m piggy-backing off your comment for the same reason as Linda below, and add my signature to her apology.
I’m right of centre, and like going to the gym and being reasonably big, strong and fit in a light-heavy/cruiser sort of way, but I would really hate to look like that!
To stand up a proposition, this is one of those articles that takes a handful of extreme characters and presents them as the standard bearer and prototypes of the audience at large. Fun reading, I appreciate the effort, but completely failed to make any case, other than the author is visibly upset about something.
This was a bit of a waste of time and in my opinion doesn’t address the issue at all.
The decline of men has been going on for over 50 years and it’s been planned that way. Young men, brought up in households without fathers in it has been persuasive since the 1970s. How are boys supposed to learn how to be men without one around to show them?
Does that mean that all fathers are good teachers? No, of course not but before no fault divorce and the State’s assumption that women are better parents simply because they have vaginas in a divorce, most households had men in them and so even if you weren’t fortunate enough to have a “good dad” there were other men around to emulate. This is long gone.
This is a result of social engineering first tried out on the black population. They’ve been without fathers in the home since the 1940s. Sadly, because of the proliferation of racism in America, few noticed or cared. Once the elimination of fathers in the home was found to be so effective it was rolled out the the population at large and began effecting white men too.
The feminisation of men was needed to trasfer our society into a mass of “feelers” who are only worried about how they feel and how others can make them feel bad. Facts no longer are important. If the truth hurts and it often does then we can’t discuss it as it might make someone else feel bad. This has it’s own built in censorship which we should all be concerned about.
Susan Faludi covered the same geography with far more depth and sympathy in “Stiffed” back in the late 90’s. This nothing but glib and shallow meandering around.
Agreed – I still have that book somewhere – I was amazed that a radical feminist had the wisdom to see what real damage aggressive feminism coupled with the PC movement was doing to the structure and sustainability of the family unit – smart gal – tis all come to be…
Agreed – I still have that book somewhere – I was amazed that a radical feminist had the wisdom to see what real damage aggressive feminism coupled with the PC movement was doing to the structure and sustainability of the family unit – smart gal – tis all come to be…
Just shows how terrified Progressives are of the Right’s resurgence. No effort to paint it as absurd and silly is spared — anything to avoid actually engaging with ideas that invariably win in any fair competition with liberalism. Just for the record, no, steroid abusing Neanderthals aren’t representative of the MAGA movement.
Sorry, N Foster, but again I’m having to piggy-back off another comment as again I have no facility to open a comment – it’s getting tiresome!
But enough of that. All the comments here, so far, have been very negative about this article, but I found it interesting; I’d never heard of this Liver guy until a previous article on UnHerd and this piece explained more about him and his ilk. By-the-way love his beard, can’t say the same for his torso though, but then I don’t imagine it’s supposed to appeal to women.
I think that all of this arises from a crisis of confidence among men, for so long it’s been all their way, and when physical strength was all inportant their sense of superiority was unchallenged, hence the desire to emphasis this strength. As the writer says there is no consensus on what a “real” man (or even a “real” woman) is, which is understandable as each is an individual, but among the men in my life these sorts of antics are laughable. I did once, a long time ago and in a different context, ask my husband what he thought distinguished a “real” man and his answer was simple – he provides for, loves and protects his family and does all he can to ensure the safety of his neighbours and country. When you come to think of it that’s what a “real” woman should do, too.
“And it’s a mentality that allows the manosphere to gleefully join the progressive Left in bidding farewell to any of the remaining civil norms that facilitate debate and compromise.”
Is that not rather the point. The Left have never had any interest in civil norms, debate and compromise and at the moment they seem to holds all the levers of power. So what is the point in debate and compromise. It conjures images of the Dutch journalist trying to reason with the Islamic extremist while he was being stabbed to death
I’m piggy-backing off your comment for the same reason as Linda below, and add my signature to her apology.
I’m right of centre, and like going to the gym and being reasonably big, strong and fit in a light-heavy/cruiser sort of way, but I would really hate to look like that!
To stand up a proposition, this is one of those articles that takes a handful of extreme characters and presents them as the standard bearer and prototypes of the audience at large. Fun reading, I appreciate the effort, but completely failed to make any case, other than the author is visibly upset about something.
This was a bit of a waste of time and in my opinion doesn’t address the issue at all.
The decline of men has been going on for over 50 years and it’s been planned that way. Young men, brought up in households without fathers in it has been persuasive since the 1970s. How are boys supposed to learn how to be men without one around to show them?
Does that mean that all fathers are good teachers? No, of course not but before no fault divorce and the State’s assumption that women are better parents simply because they have vaginas in a divorce, most households had men in them and so even if you weren’t fortunate enough to have a “good dad” there were other men around to emulate. This is long gone.
This is a result of social engineering first tried out on the black population. They’ve been without fathers in the home since the 1940s. Sadly, because of the proliferation of racism in America, few noticed or cared. Once the elimination of fathers in the home was found to be so effective it was rolled out the the population at large and began effecting white men too.
The feminisation of men was needed to trasfer our society into a mass of “feelers” who are only worried about how they feel and how others can make them feel bad. Facts no longer are important. If the truth hurts and it often does then we can’t discuss it as it might make someone else feel bad. This has it’s own built in censorship which we should all be concerned about.
Susan Faludi covered the same geography with far more depth and sympathy in “Stiffed” back in the late 90’s. This nothing but glib and shallow meandering around.
Just shows how terrified Progressives are of the Right’s resurgence. No effort to paint it as absurd and silly is spared — anything to avoid actually engaging with ideas that invariably win in any fair competition with liberalism. Just for the record, no, steroid abusing Neanderthals aren’t representative of the MAGA movement.
N Forster
1 year ago
Very odd piece with the author determined to find links between exercise and being right wing.
Reading this was not time well spent. It was even less well time spent writing it.
Jonas Moze
1 year ago
Well, I read it. I even would go back often and try to figure out what the writer actually means in that paragraph I could not get hold of, and clicked on a lot of the weird gopher-hole links, and went down them a bit, but it just was not working for me.
I took away is this guy thinks ‘Trump’ means rightwing-crazy though – a kind of Confederate flag waving, Trouble making, Macho Incell, loser. He built this Trump follower straw man and then set out to call it derisive things and make it look bad for trying to be some kind of bewildered and lost macho caveman. I happen to do a quite aggressive workout daily, and am very MAGA, but at no point could I see myself, or any Trump Supporter I have ever known, in the picture he was trying to paint.
‘‘during the early days of the alt-Right’s emergence as a media phenomenon, he assumed I shared his belief that eating raw or rare meat is a radical political act. I do see it as political,
See, the above is the problem. This guy is so totally sucked into the world of body building, weird diet, Loons, he does not realize they are not even on the regular person’s radar. They make an analogy for no group as they are just weird outliers. The eating of raw meat as a political act is just not a thing anyone notices.
Would post this separately, but unfortunately, I can’t seem to post unless it’s in a reply. If – Rudyard Kipling
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
Would post this separately, but unfortunately, I can’t seem to post unless it’s in a reply. If – Rudyard Kipling
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
Last edited 1 year ago by Julian Farrows
Jonas Moze
1 year ago
Well, I read it. I even would go back often and try to figure out what the writer actually means in that paragraph I could not get hold of, and clicked on a lot of the weird gopher-hole links, and went down them a bit, but it just was not working for me.
I took away is this guy thinks ‘Trump’ means rightwing-crazy though – a kind of Confederate flag waving, Trouble making, Macho Incell, loser. He built this Trump follower straw man and then set out to call it derisive things and make it look bad for trying to be some kind of bewildered and lost macho caveman. I happen to do a quite aggressive workout daily, and am very MAGA, but at no point could I see myself, or any Trump Supporter I have ever known, in the picture he was trying to paint.
‘‘during the early days of the alt-Right’s emergence as a media phenomenon, he assumed I shared his belief that eating raw or rare meat is a radical political act. I do see it as political,
See, the above is the problem. This guy is so totally sucked into the world of body building, weird diet, Loons, he does not realize they are not even on the regular person’s radar. They make an analogy for no group as they are just weird outliers. The eating of raw meat as a political act is just not a thing anyone notices.
Kerry Davie
1 year ago
Oliver, get a proper job.
Kerry Davie
1 year ago
Oliver, get a proper job.
William Shaw
1 year ago
WTF
Get a life.
William Shaw
1 year ago
WTF
Get a life.
Philippe W
1 year ago
I feel this was written by, for and about people with much much much much more time than me.
Agreed. The spiders web of various online personalities and apparent drama filtered through the author’s weird obsessions is just too boring for anybody to care about.
RK was an incredibly busy man with huge responsibiities and plenty of tragedy in his life _ watch the movie , or better read a book !! Those who dont make time to think etc etc etc
Agreed. The spiders web of various online personalities and apparent drama filtered through the author’s weird obsessions is just too boring for anybody to care about.
RK was an incredibly busy man with huge responsibiities and plenty of tragedy in his life _ watch the movie , or better read a book !! Those who dont make time to think etc etc etc
Philippe W
1 year ago
I feel this was written by, for and about people with much much much much more time than me.
polidori redux
1 year ago
Lunacy is not restricted to the “online right” All shades of political and personal madness are catered for on social media: Is this what the author is telling us?
My consoling thought is that mad people invariably destroy themselves, even as they visit their misery upon the rest of us. Stay sane and outlive them.
polidori redux
1 year ago
Lunacy is not restricted to the “online right” All shades of political and personal madness are catered for on social media: Is this what the author is telling us?
My consoling thought is that mad people invariably destroy themselves, even as they visit their misery upon the rest of us. Stay sane and outlive them.
Colin Baxter
1 year ago
Well it’s a good job he does strength training, as he’s straining so hard to make tenuous links…..
And, no, I don’t see the point of this article, either.
Colin Baxter
1 year ago
Well it’s a good job he does strength training, as he’s straining so hard to make tenuous links…..
And, no, I don’t see the point of this article, either.
Methadras Aszlosis
1 year ago
Liver King was a moron. A moron who spent tens of thousands of dollars on the very chemicals he needed to hype his physique and lifestyle that in reality, he gets very little return on. Why? Because what he offered was unattainable to nearly all people. From his physique to his diet, all were rooted not in the Right, masculinity, or actual health. They were rooted in a money-making gimmick that was fraudulent. For you to impune the entire right on one or two guys is frankly absurd. Your attempt at trying to bridge the right with Hoppolite/Spartan-style lifestyles is cumbersome and frankly tiresome. This is nothing new. Why?
Well in your own words, “The subsequent physical rejuvenation of these sedentary males, formerly afflicted with the declining testosterone levels of the 21st century, would speak for itself.” You never ask why these testosterone levels are dropping. I’ll tell you why. There is a distinct and sequenced approach to how the Left has attacked masculinity in general, from genetic modifications of foods to promulgating vegetarian/vegan culture and lifestyles, and dietary restrictions which have led producers to modify foods that do not enhance male testosterone levels but include things like soy products that enhance estrogen levels in men instead that drop their T levels through food and changes in diet. Sedintarianism and the push to keep men in a perpetual state of adolescence through various media, social engineering, and peer-pressure campaigns, all the way to force-feeding vaccinations on the populace. And that’s just a start.
This is not a right-wing problem. This is a problem for people who are trying to cash in on people’s inability to take care of themselves. To become disciplined on their own so they won’t need “coaches” of any kind. We’ve taken the self-determination out of people that was ingrained in them and weeded it out through leftist indoctrination centers aka schools, through leftist media, through leftist government campaigns attacking maledom wherever it can. When you have entire swaths of culture calling masculinity toxic, while toxic feminity is in ascension, you have a problem. You don’t discuss any of this. Why? Because you’d know that your article won’t amount to the raw liver diet that the fraud eats without enhancement. Your linking of this guy to the right is that enhancement.
Last edited 1 year ago by Methadras Aszlosis
Methadras Aszlosis
1 year ago
Liver King was a moron. A moron who spent tens of thousands of dollars on the very chemicals he needed to hype his physique and lifestyle that in reality, he gets very little return on. Why? Because what he offered was unattainable to nearly all people. From his physique to his diet, all were rooted not in the Right, masculinity, or actual health. They were rooted in a money-making gimmick that was fraudulent. For you to impune the entire right on one or two guys is frankly absurd. Your attempt at trying to bridge the right with Hoppolite/Spartan-style lifestyles is cumbersome and frankly tiresome. This is nothing new. Why?
Well in your own words, “The subsequent physical rejuvenation of these sedentary males, formerly afflicted with the declining testosterone levels of the 21st century, would speak for itself.” You never ask why these testosterone levels are dropping. I’ll tell you why. There is a distinct and sequenced approach to how the Left has attacked masculinity in general, from genetic modifications of foods to promulgating vegetarian/vegan culture and lifestyles, and dietary restrictions which have led producers to modify foods that do not enhance male testosterone levels but include things like soy products that enhance estrogen levels in men instead that drop their T levels through food and changes in diet. Sedintarianism and the push to keep men in a perpetual state of adolescence through various media, social engineering, and peer-pressure campaigns, all the way to force-feeding vaccinations on the populace. And that’s just a start.
This is not a right-wing problem. This is a problem for people who are trying to cash in on people’s inability to take care of themselves. To become disciplined on their own so they won’t need “coaches” of any kind. We’ve taken the self-determination out of people that was ingrained in them and weeded it out through leftist indoctrination centers aka schools, through leftist media, through leftist government campaigns attacking maledom wherever it can. When you have entire swaths of culture calling masculinity toxic, while toxic feminity is in ascension, you have a problem. You don’t discuss any of this. Why? Because you’d know that your article won’t amount to the raw liver diet that the fraud eats without enhancement. Your linking of this guy to the right is that enhancement.
Last edited 1 year ago by Methadras Aszlosis
Russell L
1 year ago
What does the author mean by ‘IQ Test silliness’? It’s not clear.
….amongst many other unclear and presumed references.
Russell L
1 year ago
What does the author mean by ‘IQ Test silliness’? It’s not clear.
Morgan Watkins
1 year ago
I understand the concerns but I’m not sure there is a centre to hold against the new woke/progressiveswarm/whatever it is exactly… it’s troubling as I struggle to know if there is an option other than fighting back with pride? I suppose the new right are offering that sense of purpose and salvation. The centre doesn’t. It just seems to present the grounds that we all know will lead back to where we are…
Yes MHW – As Yeats wrote in The Second Coming (nominally about the the inversions which John the Revelator cites regarding the Apocalypse but actually about the rise of the Right)
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Yes MHW – As Yeats wrote in The Second Coming (nominally about the the inversions which John the Revelator cites regarding the Apocalypse but actually about the rise of the Right)
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Morgan Watkins
1 year ago
I understand the concerns but I’m not sure there is a centre to hold against the new woke/progressiveswarm/whatever it is exactly… it’s troubling as I struggle to know if there is an option other than fighting back with pride? I suppose the new right are offering that sense of purpose and salvation. The centre doesn’t. It just seems to present the grounds that we all know will lead back to where we are…
J Morgan
1 year ago
I’d never heard of Raw Egg Nationalist until listening to Alex Kaschuta’s podcast with him recently. He did make the point that it’s not just men who would benefit from eating real foods, basically keto. Women who do it find hormonal disregulation such as PCOS resolves. Both sexes are badly served by government advice on diet
My (adult) daughter has just been lecturing me on the benefits of high protein for longevity. Seems I should be aiming at 100 – 150 gr a day. I am a 74 yr old woman. I’m all for it, we feed our dogs loads of protein and they live well into their teens. Only trouble being stage three kidney diseased I’m not sure I should be upping my protein. Else I would, certainly. My daughter has been keto for years.
My (adult) daughter has just been lecturing me on the benefits of high protein for longevity. Seems I should be aiming at 100 – 150 gr a day. I am a 74 yr old woman. I’m all for it, we feed our dogs loads of protein and they live well into their teens. Only trouble being stage three kidney diseased I’m not sure I should be upping my protein. Else I would, certainly. My daughter has been keto for years.
J Morgan
1 year ago
I’d never heard of Raw Egg Nationalist until listening to Alex Kaschuta’s podcast with him recently. He did make the point that it’s not just men who would benefit from eating real foods, basically keto. Women who do it find hormonal disregulation such as PCOS resolves. Both sexes are badly served by government advice on diet
Senator Smith
1 year ago
Perhaps I can assist. The author is himself situated somewhere in the post-left universe having hosted the “Whats Left” podcast together with Aimee Terese, as is Malcom Kyeyune who is also mentioned in the article. Essentially these people are disaffected leftists who consider that the Left is basically a make-work scheme for the bureaucratic managerialists and has thereby abandoned any attempt to improve conditions for the working class.
As such their politics are eclectic and perhaps a touch bewildering for the Spectator set amongst the audience here, who are probably more comfortable with the traditional left-right divide and would likely prefer yet another Douglas Murray editorial about free speech on college campuses.
I dare say this article would be somewhat hard to follow if you weren’t already familiar with the characters being cited. Essentially its a critique of the millenarian cultists on the Right who have popped up recently that the author evidently considers to be political dead ends. Its not a critique of the Right in general or an attempt to argue in favour of Leftist causes, which some commenters have evidently taken to be the case.
Last edited 1 year ago by Senator Smith
Senator Smith
1 year ago
Perhaps I can assist. The author is himself situated somewhere in the post-left universe having hosted the “Whats Left” podcast together with Aimee Terese, as is Malcom Kyeyune who is also mentioned in the article. Essentially these people are disaffected leftists who consider that the Left is basically a make-work scheme for the bureaucratic managerialists and has thereby abandoned any attempt to improve conditions for the working class.
As such their politics are eclectic and perhaps a touch bewildering for the Spectator set amongst the audience here, who are probably more comfortable with the traditional left-right divide and would likely prefer yet another Douglas Murray editorial about free speech on college campuses.
I dare say this article would be somewhat hard to follow if you weren’t already familiar with the characters being cited. Essentially its a critique of the millenarian cultists on the Right who have popped up recently that the author evidently considers to be political dead ends. Its not a critique of the Right in general or an attempt to argue in favour of Leftist causes, which some commenters have evidently taken to be the case.
Last edited 1 year ago by Senator Smith
Rachel Simpson
1 year ago
Reading this alongside Matthew Crawford’s essay on the politics of masturbation is to see one explained by the other.
Self care and some kind of Retvrn by men is always going to be labelled right wing because it is not progressive: they are supposed to be wanking, not looking after themselves.
Pascal Emmanuel Goby has written about how Porn is damaging men by looking at how it shapes the brain A Science-Based Case for Ending the Porn Epidemic find it on the website of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.
If young men start to see this in themselves they will want to stop and need to replace it with something, hence some go bodybuilding, meat and raw egg mad.
Rachel Simpson
1 year ago
Reading this alongside Matthew Crawford’s essay on the politics of masturbation is to see one explained by the other.
Self care and some kind of Retvrn by men is always going to be labelled right wing because it is not progressive: they are supposed to be wanking, not looking after themselves.
Pascal Emmanuel Goby has written about how Porn is damaging men by looking at how it shapes the brain A Science-Based Case for Ending the Porn Epidemic find it on the website of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.
If young men start to see this in themselves they will want to stop and need to replace it with something, hence some go bodybuilding, meat and raw egg mad.
Jorge Espinha
1 year ago
A similar article could be written about the many “back to nature” loonies that seem ubiquitous these days. Many have no right or left ideology. Many consider the human species a plague. Others have fondness for how native Americans lived before the arrival of Europeans. At the end of the article the author refers to IQ silliness. The IQ problem is something both the right and the left have a big problem facing. IQ isn’t perfect but there is human intelectual ability and however you measure it, it’s not distributed equally and it doesn’t change . The same way no amount or training will make a male with 160 cm grow to be 200cm tall. It’s unfortunate and inteligence and drive are things we are born with much like beauty and height. I’m lacking in both. I wish I was more intelligent and had more drive. University show me that some men and women are simply more intelligent and capable than others . A humbling experience
Jorge Espinha
1 year ago
A similar article could be written about the many “back to nature” loonies that seem ubiquitous these days. Many have no right or left ideology. Many consider the human species a plague. Others have fondness for how native Americans lived before the arrival of Europeans. At the end of the article the author refers to IQ silliness. The IQ problem is something both the right and the left have a big problem facing. IQ isn’t perfect but there is human intelectual ability and however you measure it, it’s not distributed equally and it doesn’t change . The same way no amount or training will make a male with 160 cm grow to be 200cm tall. It’s unfortunate and inteligence and drive are things we are born with much like beauty and height. I’m lacking in both. I wish I was more intelligent and had more drive. University show me that some men and women are simply more intelligent and capable than others . A humbling experience
Rick Abrams
1 year ago
The dichotomy is part of Western Civilization. That does not it good. It is still bad, very bad, but denying the role of dichotomous thinking is to ignore an extreme strong aspect of our current troubles. http://bit.ly/2yxk1IT June 21, 2018, CityWatch, The Dangers of Dichotomy: The Saved vs. The Damned, by Richard Lee Abrams
Also, dichotomy makes $$$. When politicos like Nancy Pelosi or Donald Trump can inject fear and hated into politics, they can make a fortune. https://bit.ly/3fUBy1z April 8, 2021, CityWatch, Hate Money Stalks America, by Richard Lee Abrams
Richard Craven
9 months ago
He looks absolutely offal.
Graeme McNeil
1 year ago
Incels who think Donald Trump is the epitome of masculinity – who cares?
Very odd piece with the author determined to find links between exercise and being right wing.
Reading this was not time well spent. It was even less well time spent writing it.
One would get far more out of starting Sun and Steel than reading this.
Sorry, N Foster, but again I’m having to piggy-back off another comment as again I have no facility to open a comment – it’s getting tiresome!
But enough of that. All the comments here, so far, have been very negative about this article, but I found it interesting; I’d never heard of this Liver guy until a previous article on UnHerd and this piece explained more about him and his ilk. By-the-way love his beard, can’t say the same for his torso though, but then I don’t imagine it’s supposed to appeal to women.
I think that all of this arises from a crisis of confidence among men, for so long it’s been all their way, and when physical strength was all inportant their sense of superiority was unchallenged, hence the desire to emphasis this strength. As the writer says there is no consensus on what a “real” man (or even a “real” woman) is, which is understandable as each is an individual, but among the men in my life these sorts of antics are laughable. I did once, a long time ago and in a different context, ask my husband what he thought distinguished a “real” man and his answer was simple – he provides for, loves and protects his family and does all he can to ensure the safety of his neighbours and country. When you come to think of it that’s what a “real” woman should do, too.
Linda
Try these (In turn!)
Reload page
Reboot computer
Clear browser cache
Try another browser
Something will work. It has happened to me. Computers are irrational creatures.
Irrational is being kind. I once spoke to one of our work’s computer nerds, who used to work in the computer software engineering industry, and he told me, in all seriousness, that you can take two computers straight from the factory, and the probabilty is that each will have a problem and the problem will be different in each case. What can you do; I think computers were put upon this earth to drive us all to impotent fury.
It doesn’t work for me either, so I will reply to you – with another thought: factoring in decreasing sperm count plus the new adulation of LGB etc. it would seem, at some level, we are making sure we do not exceed the level of population regeneration than that which would be sustainable. Post war the most desired shape for women was ultra feminine/child bearing.
It doesn’t work for me either, so I will reply to you – with another thought: factoring in decreasing sperm count plus the new adulation of LGB etc. it would seem, at some level, we are making sure we do not exceed the level of population regeneration than that which would be sustainable. Post war the most desired shape for women was ultra feminine/child bearing.
Irrational is being kind. I once spoke to one of our work’s computer nerds, who used to work in the computer software engineering industry, and he told me, in all seriousness, that you can take two computers straight from the factory, and the probabilty is that each will have a problem and the problem will be different in each case. What can you do; I think computers were put upon this earth to drive us all to impotent fury.
Perhaps the more interesting and important issue is the 50% drop in men’s fertility (sperm count) over the past 50 years. No one knows why this is happening. Some think it’s the environment – estrogens (pills) being dumped down the toilet and other drugs. Others point to the sorry physical shape that men are in today – fat, no exercise, smoking, the easy availability of drugs, etc. Perhaps, some men are realizing that to stay in shape is a good thing and in doing so, some take it too far. It could be as simple as that, and that it’s no so-called ‘Right wing’ phenomenon at all. Or perhaps men on the right see ‘diminishing manhood’ as an issue and ‘Lefties’ don’t care; Today, we have ‘Lefty stereotypes’ in the media and ads of the soft-spoken, wet-noodle, thin-and-no-physique techie who hasn’t seen daylight in years.
Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier. As true in 2022 as in 1937.
What does “obscenely bald” mean? If he was bald it was hardly a life-style choice, and I’m pretty sure that even lefties and communists don’t make a political thing about being “obscenely bald”.
I think it is related to the hat wearing he refers to in the previous sentence. Maybe in the 1930s it was considered doubly uncouth to go around in public hatless if you were bald.
I think it is related to the hat wearing he refers to in the previous sentence. Maybe in the 1930s it was considered doubly uncouth to go around in public hatless if you were bald.
What does “obscenely bald” mean? If he was bald it was hardly a life-style choice, and I’m pretty sure that even lefties and communists don’t make a political thing about being “obscenely bald”.
LOL. I’ve not seen many of those “wet noodle” types holding attractive women on their arms, unless they were being paid as escorts. After all, regardless of what women might want to believe today, physically strong men (not so much grossly overdeveloped) attract women more than sickly and skinny ones for a variety of natural and biological reasons.
Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier. As true in 2022 as in 1937.
LOL. I’ve not seen many of those “wet noodle” types holding attractive women on their arms, unless they were being paid as escorts. After all, regardless of what women might want to believe today, physically strong men (not so much grossly overdeveloped) attract women more than sickly and skinny ones for a variety of natural and biological reasons.
Yes, there is a crisis among men, especially the young. Unfortunately though most of the advice from progressives is for men to become more feminised, to act and think more like women. At the same time, any advice to grow up and take responsibility of characterised by progressives as “right wing” or even worse.
This article simply reinforces this view conflating what would be considered by most to be sensible advice with extreme ideas and lumping all in together.
The article adds nothing other than further confusion.
Still having the same problem.
Yeah this happens to me all the time. I think it has to do with cached elements in your browser. Try forcing a full refresh on a page where you can’t comment : control + f5, or control + r depending on your OS – you can just do both.
Linda
Try these (In turn!)
Reload page
Reboot computer
Clear browser cache
Try another browser
Something will work. It has happened to me. Computers are irrational creatures.
Perhaps the more interesting and important issue is the 50% drop in men’s fertility (sperm count) over the past 50 years. No one knows why this is happening. Some think it’s the environment – estrogens (pills) being dumped down the toilet and other drugs. Others point to the sorry physical shape that men are in today – fat, no exercise, smoking, the easy availability of drugs, etc. Perhaps, some men are realizing that to stay in shape is a good thing and in doing so, some take it too far. It could be as simple as that, and that it’s no so-called ‘Right wing’ phenomenon at all. Or perhaps men on the right see ‘diminishing manhood’ as an issue and ‘Lefties’ don’t care; Today, we have ‘Lefty stereotypes’ in the media and ads of the soft-spoken, wet-noodle, thin-and-no-physique techie who hasn’t seen daylight in years.
Yes, there is a crisis among men, especially the young. Unfortunately though most of the advice from progressives is for men to become more feminised, to act and think more like women. At the same time, any advice to grow up and take responsibility of characterised by progressives as “right wing” or even worse.
This article simply reinforces this view conflating what would be considered by most to be sensible advice with extreme ideas and lumping all in together.
The article adds nothing other than further confusion.
Still having the same problem.
Yeah this happens to me all the time. I think it has to do with cached elements in your browser. Try forcing a full refresh on a page where you can’t comment : control + f5, or control + r depending on your OS – you can just do both.
“And it’s a mentality that allows the manosphere to gleefully join the progressive Left in bidding farewell to any of the remaining civil norms that facilitate debate and compromise.”
Is that not rather the point. The Left have never had any interest in civil norms, debate and compromise and at the moment they seem to holds all the levers of power. So what is the point in debate and compromise. It conjures images of the Dutch journalist trying to reason with the Islamic extremist while he was being stabbed to death
Exactly. We should have no compunction whatsoever in treating woke ar_seholes with visceral rudeness. We’ve had enough of roadblocks, censorship, anti-white racism, and sadistic paedophilia.
A fine example of right wing tolerance!
That isn’t right-wing you mental infant, it’s a statement of facts that you characterize, foolishly, as intolerance. This is exactly why the left is only taken seriously from the sense that they hold all the levers of power to push their insane ideologies onto people who don’t want it. They want to normalize their deviance, their degeneracy, and their demoralization wherever they can along with your stupid smarm notwithstanding.
You seem extremely angry – perhaps a workout will do you good?
You seem extremely stupid – perhaps an education will do you good?
Quite a few angry people punching hard at straw men [aka ‘liberals’, ‘paedophiles’, etc] in the comments. I think they need quite a bit more than a workout to improve their outlooks. Not to mention their reasoning skills..
You seem extremely stupid – perhaps an education will do you good?
Quite a few angry people punching hard at straw men [aka ‘liberals’, ‘paedophiles’, etc] in the comments. I think they need quite a bit more than a workout to improve their outlooks. Not to mention their reasoning skills..
Thanks for dealing with the woke uuanker.
You seem extremely angry – perhaps a workout will do you good?
Thanks for dealing with the woke uuanker.
Do you think speaking out against anti-White racism and pedophilia is right-wing intolerance? So you are one of the anti-White racists and pedo. Hmm…what a weird way of exposing yourself like this. Congrats
That isn’t right-wing you mental infant, it’s a statement of facts that you characterize, foolishly, as intolerance. This is exactly why the left is only taken seriously from the sense that they hold all the levers of power to push their insane ideologies onto people who don’t want it. They want to normalize their deviance, their degeneracy, and their demoralization wherever they can along with your stupid smarm notwithstanding.
Do you think speaking out against anti-White racism and pedophilia is right-wing intolerance? So you are one of the anti-White racists and pedo. Hmm…what a weird way of exposing yourself like this. Congrats
A fine example of right wing tolerance!
Highly amusing coming from people who regard Donald Trump as a genius.
So tell us Graeme, what is your contribution to society other than incoherent envy and jealousy?
Envy and jealousy? Why don’t you show us where I have displayed either of those?
Why, in fact, would I be envious of anyone, but especially of the type of people who think Donald Trump has anything to offer the world other than sexual assault and tax fraud?
Where’s the independent thinking I thought I was going to get from a website called “Unherd”? Too many foaming-at-the-mouth comments from unhinged, angry men slinging the same kind of crap I can get on Twitter, only more succinct there.
Where’s the independent thinking I thought I was going to get from a website called “Unherd”? Too many foaming-at-the-mouth comments from unhinged, angry men slinging the same kind of crap I can get on Twitter, only more succinct there.
What’s yours?
Envy and jealousy? Why don’t you show us where I have displayed either of those?
Why, in fact, would I be envious of anyone, but especially of the type of people who think Donald Trump has anything to offer the world other than sexual assault and tax fraud?
What’s yours?
So tell us Graeme, what is your contribution to society other than incoherent envy and jealousy?
The left that I grew up with certainly did believe in civil norms, owing far more to the Methodist Chapel than it did Marx.
Sadly those days are behind us.
Depends n your age I suppose, but from the 1960s generation onwards they nothing but contempt for civil norms
Depends n your age I suppose, but from the 1960s generation onwards they nothing but contempt for civil norms
Exactly. We should have no compunction whatsoever in treating woke ar_seholes with visceral rudeness. We’ve had enough of roadblocks, censorship, anti-white racism, and sadistic paedophilia.
Highly amusing coming from people who regard Donald Trump as a genius.
The left that I grew up with certainly did believe in civil norms, owing far more to the Methodist Chapel than it did Marx.
Sadly those days are behind us.
I’m piggy-backing off your comment for the same reason as Linda below, and add my signature to her apology.
I’m right of centre, and like going to the gym and being reasonably big, strong and fit in a light-heavy/cruiser sort of way, but I would really hate to look like that!
Looking at young Master Bateman’s photo, he must therefore be very Left-wing indeed….
LOL Master-Bateman indeed! Can’t Unherd find something better to print than public wanking like this?
LOL Master-Bateman indeed! Can’t Unherd find something better to print than public wanking like this?
Agreed…it is too easy to pull out references to various American ‘Great Awakenings’ but this phenomenon of ‘Strong Guys’, if it is one, ain’t that.
To stand up a proposition, this is one of those articles that takes a handful of extreme characters and presents them as the standard bearer and prototypes of the audience at large. Fun reading, I appreciate the effort, but completely failed to make any case, other than the author is visibly upset about something.
This was a bit of a waste of time and in my opinion doesn’t address the issue at all.
The decline of men has been going on for over 50 years and it’s been planned that way. Young men, brought up in households without fathers in it has been persuasive since the 1970s. How are boys supposed to learn how to be men without one around to show them?
Does that mean that all fathers are good teachers? No, of course not but before no fault divorce and the State’s assumption that women are better parents simply because they have vaginas in a divorce, most households had men in them and so even if you weren’t fortunate enough to have a “good dad” there were other men around to emulate. This is long gone.
This is a result of social engineering first tried out on the black population. They’ve been without fathers in the home since the 1940s. Sadly, because of the proliferation of racism in America, few noticed or cared. Once the elimination of fathers in the home was found to be so effective it was rolled out the the population at large and began effecting white men too.
The feminisation of men was needed to trasfer our society into a mass of “feelers” who are only worried about how they feel and how others can make them feel bad. Facts no longer are important. If the truth hurts and it often does then we can’t discuss it as it might make someone else feel bad. This has it’s own built in censorship which we should all be concerned about.
I agree with pretty much everything you said except for it being “planned that way”.
I agree with pretty much everything you said except for it being “planned that way”.
Susan Faludi covered the same geography with far more depth and sympathy in “Stiffed” back in the late 90’s. This nothing but glib and shallow meandering around.
Agreed – I still have that book somewhere – I was amazed that a radical feminist had the wisdom to see what real damage aggressive feminism coupled with the PC movement was doing to the structure and sustainability of the family unit – smart gal – tis all come to be…
Agreed – I still have that book somewhere – I was amazed that a radical feminist had the wisdom to see what real damage aggressive feminism coupled with the PC movement was doing to the structure and sustainability of the family unit – smart gal – tis all come to be…
Just shows how terrified Progressives are of the Right’s resurgence. No effort to paint it as absurd and silly is spared — anything to avoid actually engaging with ideas that invariably win in any fair competition with liberalism. Just for the record, no, steroid abusing Neanderthals aren’t representative of the MAGA movement.
One would get far more out of starting Sun and Steel than reading this.
Sorry, N Foster, but again I’m having to piggy-back off another comment as again I have no facility to open a comment – it’s getting tiresome!
But enough of that. All the comments here, so far, have been very negative about this article, but I found it interesting; I’d never heard of this Liver guy until a previous article on UnHerd and this piece explained more about him and his ilk. By-the-way love his beard, can’t say the same for his torso though, but then I don’t imagine it’s supposed to appeal to women.
I think that all of this arises from a crisis of confidence among men, for so long it’s been all their way, and when physical strength was all inportant their sense of superiority was unchallenged, hence the desire to emphasis this strength. As the writer says there is no consensus on what a “real” man (or even a “real” woman) is, which is understandable as each is an individual, but among the men in my life these sorts of antics are laughable. I did once, a long time ago and in a different context, ask my husband what he thought distinguished a “real” man and his answer was simple – he provides for, loves and protects his family and does all he can to ensure the safety of his neighbours and country. When you come to think of it that’s what a “real” woman should do, too.
“And it’s a mentality that allows the manosphere to gleefully join the progressive Left in bidding farewell to any of the remaining civil norms that facilitate debate and compromise.”
Is that not rather the point. The Left have never had any interest in civil norms, debate and compromise and at the moment they seem to holds all the levers of power. So what is the point in debate and compromise. It conjures images of the Dutch journalist trying to reason with the Islamic extremist while he was being stabbed to death
I’m piggy-backing off your comment for the same reason as Linda below, and add my signature to her apology.
I’m right of centre, and like going to the gym and being reasonably big, strong and fit in a light-heavy/cruiser sort of way, but I would really hate to look like that!
Looking at young Master Bateman’s photo, he must therefore be very Left-wing indeed….
Agreed…it is too easy to pull out references to various American ‘Great Awakenings’ but this phenomenon of ‘Strong Guys’, if it is one, ain’t that.
To stand up a proposition, this is one of those articles that takes a handful of extreme characters and presents them as the standard bearer and prototypes of the audience at large. Fun reading, I appreciate the effort, but completely failed to make any case, other than the author is visibly upset about something.
This was a bit of a waste of time and in my opinion doesn’t address the issue at all.
The decline of men has been going on for over 50 years and it’s been planned that way. Young men, brought up in households without fathers in it has been persuasive since the 1970s. How are boys supposed to learn how to be men without one around to show them?
Does that mean that all fathers are good teachers? No, of course not but before no fault divorce and the State’s assumption that women are better parents simply because they have vaginas in a divorce, most households had men in them and so even if you weren’t fortunate enough to have a “good dad” there were other men around to emulate. This is long gone.
This is a result of social engineering first tried out on the black population. They’ve been without fathers in the home since the 1940s. Sadly, because of the proliferation of racism in America, few noticed or cared. Once the elimination of fathers in the home was found to be so effective it was rolled out the the population at large and began effecting white men too.
The feminisation of men was needed to trasfer our society into a mass of “feelers” who are only worried about how they feel and how others can make them feel bad. Facts no longer are important. If the truth hurts and it often does then we can’t discuss it as it might make someone else feel bad. This has it’s own built in censorship which we should all be concerned about.
Susan Faludi covered the same geography with far more depth and sympathy in “Stiffed” back in the late 90’s. This nothing but glib and shallow meandering around.
Just shows how terrified Progressives are of the Right’s resurgence. No effort to paint it as absurd and silly is spared — anything to avoid actually engaging with ideas that invariably win in any fair competition with liberalism. Just for the record, no, steroid abusing Neanderthals aren’t representative of the MAGA movement.
Very odd piece with the author determined to find links between exercise and being right wing.
Reading this was not time well spent. It was even less well time spent writing it.
Well, I read it. I even would go back often and try to figure out what the writer actually means in that paragraph I could not get hold of, and clicked on a lot of the weird gopher-hole links, and went down them a bit, but it just was not working for me.
I took away is this guy thinks ‘Trump’ means rightwing-crazy though – a kind of Confederate flag waving, Trouble making, Macho Incell, loser. He built this Trump follower straw man and then set out to call it derisive things and make it look bad for trying to be some kind of bewildered and lost macho caveman. I happen to do a quite aggressive workout daily, and am very MAGA, but at no point could I see myself, or any Trump Supporter I have ever known, in the picture he was trying to paint.
‘‘during the early days of the alt-Right’s emergence as a media phenomenon, he assumed I shared his belief that eating raw or rare meat is a radical political act. I do see it as political,
See, the above is the problem. This guy is so totally sucked into the world of body building, weird diet, Loons, he does not realize they are not even on the regular person’s radar. They make an analogy for no group as they are just weird outliers. The eating of raw meat as a political act is just not a thing anyone notices.
Would post this separately, but unfortunately, I can’t seem to post unless it’s in a reply.
If – Rudyard Kipling
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
Lovely poem. Reminds me very much of school. Every boy had to learn it by heart. Can still recite the poem to a “T” after all those years.
Lovely poem. Reminds me very much of school. Every boy had to learn it by heart. Can still recite the poem to a “T” after all those years.
Would post this separately, but unfortunately, I can’t seem to post unless it’s in a reply.
If – Rudyard Kipling
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
Well, I read it. I even would go back often and try to figure out what the writer actually means in that paragraph I could not get hold of, and clicked on a lot of the weird gopher-hole links, and went down them a bit, but it just was not working for me.
I took away is this guy thinks ‘Trump’ means rightwing-crazy though – a kind of Confederate flag waving, Trouble making, Macho Incell, loser. He built this Trump follower straw man and then set out to call it derisive things and make it look bad for trying to be some kind of bewildered and lost macho caveman. I happen to do a quite aggressive workout daily, and am very MAGA, but at no point could I see myself, or any Trump Supporter I have ever known, in the picture he was trying to paint.
‘‘during the early days of the alt-Right’s emergence as a media phenomenon, he assumed I shared his belief that eating raw or rare meat is a radical political act. I do see it as political,
See, the above is the problem. This guy is so totally sucked into the world of body building, weird diet, Loons, he does not realize they are not even on the regular person’s radar. They make an analogy for no group as they are just weird outliers. The eating of raw meat as a political act is just not a thing anyone notices.
Oliver, get a proper job.
Oliver, get a proper job.
WTF
Get a life.
WTF
Get a life.
I feel this was written by, for and about people with much much much much more time than me.
Agreed. The spiders web of various online personalities and apparent drama filtered through the author’s weird obsessions is just too boring for anybody to care about.
RK was an incredibly busy man with huge responsibiities and plenty of tragedy in his life _ watch the movie , or better read a book !! Those who dont make time to think etc etc etc
oops – back to the article !!
oops – back to the article !!
Agreed. The spiders web of various online personalities and apparent drama filtered through the author’s weird obsessions is just too boring for anybody to care about.
RK was an incredibly busy man with huge responsibiities and plenty of tragedy in his life _ watch the movie , or better read a book !! Those who dont make time to think etc etc etc
I feel this was written by, for and about people with much much much much more time than me.
Lunacy is not restricted to the “online right” All shades of political and personal madness are catered for on social media: Is this what the author is telling us?
My consoling thought is that mad people invariably destroy themselves, even as they visit their misery upon the rest of us. Stay sane and outlive them.
Lunacy is not restricted to the “online right” All shades of political and personal madness are catered for on social media: Is this what the author is telling us?
My consoling thought is that mad people invariably destroy themselves, even as they visit their misery upon the rest of us. Stay sane and outlive them.
Well it’s a good job he does strength training, as he’s straining so hard to make tenuous links…..
And, no, I don’t see the point of this article, either.
Well it’s a good job he does strength training, as he’s straining so hard to make tenuous links…..
And, no, I don’t see the point of this article, either.
Liver King was a moron. A moron who spent tens of thousands of dollars on the very chemicals he needed to hype his physique and lifestyle that in reality, he gets very little return on. Why? Because what he offered was unattainable to nearly all people. From his physique to his diet, all were rooted not in the Right, masculinity, or actual health. They were rooted in a money-making gimmick that was fraudulent. For you to impune the entire right on one or two guys is frankly absurd. Your attempt at trying to bridge the right with Hoppolite/Spartan-style lifestyles is cumbersome and frankly tiresome. This is nothing new. Why?
Well in your own words, “The subsequent physical rejuvenation of these sedentary males, formerly afflicted with the declining testosterone levels of the 21st century, would speak for itself.” You never ask why these testosterone levels are dropping. I’ll tell you why. There is a distinct and sequenced approach to how the Left has attacked masculinity in general, from genetic modifications of foods to promulgating vegetarian/vegan culture and lifestyles, and dietary restrictions which have led producers to modify foods that do not enhance male testosterone levels but include things like soy products that enhance estrogen levels in men instead that drop their T levels through food and changes in diet. Sedintarianism and the push to keep men in a perpetual state of adolescence through various media, social engineering, and peer-pressure campaigns, all the way to force-feeding vaccinations on the populace. And that’s just a start.
This is not a right-wing problem. This is a problem for people who are trying to cash in on people’s inability to take care of themselves. To become disciplined on their own so they won’t need “coaches” of any kind. We’ve taken the self-determination out of people that was ingrained in them and weeded it out through leftist indoctrination centers aka schools, through leftist media, through leftist government campaigns attacking maledom wherever it can. When you have entire swaths of culture calling masculinity toxic, while toxic feminity is in ascension, you have a problem. You don’t discuss any of this. Why? Because you’d know that your article won’t amount to the raw liver diet that the fraud eats without enhancement. Your linking of this guy to the right is that enhancement.
Liver King was a moron. A moron who spent tens of thousands of dollars on the very chemicals he needed to hype his physique and lifestyle that in reality, he gets very little return on. Why? Because what he offered was unattainable to nearly all people. From his physique to his diet, all were rooted not in the Right, masculinity, or actual health. They were rooted in a money-making gimmick that was fraudulent. For you to impune the entire right on one or two guys is frankly absurd. Your attempt at trying to bridge the right with Hoppolite/Spartan-style lifestyles is cumbersome and frankly tiresome. This is nothing new. Why?
Well in your own words, “The subsequent physical rejuvenation of these sedentary males, formerly afflicted with the declining testosterone levels of the 21st century, would speak for itself.” You never ask why these testosterone levels are dropping. I’ll tell you why. There is a distinct and sequenced approach to how the Left has attacked masculinity in general, from genetic modifications of foods to promulgating vegetarian/vegan culture and lifestyles, and dietary restrictions which have led producers to modify foods that do not enhance male testosterone levels but include things like soy products that enhance estrogen levels in men instead that drop their T levels through food and changes in diet. Sedintarianism and the push to keep men in a perpetual state of adolescence through various media, social engineering, and peer-pressure campaigns, all the way to force-feeding vaccinations on the populace. And that’s just a start.
This is not a right-wing problem. This is a problem for people who are trying to cash in on people’s inability to take care of themselves. To become disciplined on their own so they won’t need “coaches” of any kind. We’ve taken the self-determination out of people that was ingrained in them and weeded it out through leftist indoctrination centers aka schools, through leftist media, through leftist government campaigns attacking maledom wherever it can. When you have entire swaths of culture calling masculinity toxic, while toxic feminity is in ascension, you have a problem. You don’t discuss any of this. Why? Because you’d know that your article won’t amount to the raw liver diet that the fraud eats without enhancement. Your linking of this guy to the right is that enhancement.
What does the author mean by ‘IQ Test silliness’? It’s not clear.
….amongst many other unclear and presumed references.
….amongst many other unclear and presumed references.
What does the author mean by ‘IQ Test silliness’? It’s not clear.
I understand the concerns but I’m not sure there is a centre to hold against the new woke/progressiveswarm/whatever it is exactly… it’s troubling as I struggle to know if there is an option other than fighting back with pride? I suppose the new right are offering that sense of purpose and salvation. The centre doesn’t. It just seems to present the grounds that we all know will lead back to where we are…
Yes MHW – As Yeats wrote in The Second Coming (nominally about the the inversions which John the Revelator cites regarding the Apocalypse but actually about the rise of the Right)
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Yes MHW – As Yeats wrote in The Second Coming (nominally about the the inversions which John the Revelator cites regarding the Apocalypse but actually about the rise of the Right)
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
I understand the concerns but I’m not sure there is a centre to hold against the new woke/progressiveswarm/whatever it is exactly… it’s troubling as I struggle to know if there is an option other than fighting back with pride? I suppose the new right are offering that sense of purpose and salvation. The centre doesn’t. It just seems to present the grounds that we all know will lead back to where we are…
I’d never heard of Raw Egg Nationalist until listening to Alex Kaschuta’s podcast with him recently. He did make the point that it’s not just men who would benefit from eating real foods, basically keto. Women who do it find hormonal disregulation such as PCOS resolves. Both sexes are badly served by government advice on diet
My (adult) daughter has just been lecturing me on the benefits of high protein for longevity. Seems I should be aiming at 100 – 150 gr a day. I am a 74 yr old woman. I’m all for it, we feed our dogs loads of protein and they live well into their teens. Only trouble being stage three kidney diseased I’m not sure I should be upping my protein. Else I would, certainly. My daughter has been keto for years.
My (adult) daughter has just been lecturing me on the benefits of high protein for longevity. Seems I should be aiming at 100 – 150 gr a day. I am a 74 yr old woman. I’m all for it, we feed our dogs loads of protein and they live well into their teens. Only trouble being stage three kidney diseased I’m not sure I should be upping my protein. Else I would, certainly. My daughter has been keto for years.
I’d never heard of Raw Egg Nationalist until listening to Alex Kaschuta’s podcast with him recently. He did make the point that it’s not just men who would benefit from eating real foods, basically keto. Women who do it find hormonal disregulation such as PCOS resolves. Both sexes are badly served by government advice on diet
Perhaps I can assist. The author is himself situated somewhere in the post-left universe having hosted the “Whats Left” podcast together with Aimee Terese, as is Malcom Kyeyune who is also mentioned in the article. Essentially these people are disaffected leftists who consider that the Left is basically a make-work scheme for the bureaucratic managerialists and has thereby abandoned any attempt to improve conditions for the working class.
As such their politics are eclectic and perhaps a touch bewildering for the Spectator set amongst the audience here, who are probably more comfortable with the traditional left-right divide and would likely prefer yet another Douglas Murray editorial about free speech on college campuses.
I dare say this article would be somewhat hard to follow if you weren’t already familiar with the characters being cited. Essentially its a critique of the millenarian cultists on the Right who have popped up recently that the author evidently considers to be political dead ends. Its not a critique of the Right in general or an attempt to argue in favour of Leftist causes, which some commenters have evidently taken to be the case.
Perhaps I can assist. The author is himself situated somewhere in the post-left universe having hosted the “Whats Left” podcast together with Aimee Terese, as is Malcom Kyeyune who is also mentioned in the article. Essentially these people are disaffected leftists who consider that the Left is basically a make-work scheme for the bureaucratic managerialists and has thereby abandoned any attempt to improve conditions for the working class.
As such their politics are eclectic and perhaps a touch bewildering for the Spectator set amongst the audience here, who are probably more comfortable with the traditional left-right divide and would likely prefer yet another Douglas Murray editorial about free speech on college campuses.
I dare say this article would be somewhat hard to follow if you weren’t already familiar with the characters being cited. Essentially its a critique of the millenarian cultists on the Right who have popped up recently that the author evidently considers to be political dead ends. Its not a critique of the Right in general or an attempt to argue in favour of Leftist causes, which some commenters have evidently taken to be the case.
Reading this alongside Matthew Crawford’s essay on the politics of masturbation is to see one explained by the other.
Self care and some kind of Retvrn by men is always going to be labelled right wing because it is not progressive: they are supposed to be wanking, not looking after themselves.
Pascal Emmanuel Goby has written about how Porn is damaging men by looking at how it shapes the brain A Science-Based Case for Ending the Porn Epidemic find it on the website of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.
If young men start to see this in themselves they will want to stop and need to replace it with something, hence some go bodybuilding, meat and raw egg mad.
Reading this alongside Matthew Crawford’s essay on the politics of masturbation is to see one explained by the other.
Self care and some kind of Retvrn by men is always going to be labelled right wing because it is not progressive: they are supposed to be wanking, not looking after themselves.
Pascal Emmanuel Goby has written about how Porn is damaging men by looking at how it shapes the brain A Science-Based Case for Ending the Porn Epidemic find it on the website of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.
If young men start to see this in themselves they will want to stop and need to replace it with something, hence some go bodybuilding, meat and raw egg mad.
A similar article could be written about the many “back to nature” loonies that seem ubiquitous these days. Many have no right or left ideology. Many consider the human species a plague. Others have fondness for how native Americans lived before the arrival of Europeans. At the end of the article the author refers to IQ silliness. The IQ problem is something both the right and the left have a big problem facing. IQ isn’t perfect but there is human intelectual ability and however you measure it, it’s not distributed equally and it doesn’t change . The same way no amount or training will make a male with 160 cm grow to be 200cm tall. It’s unfortunate and inteligence and drive are things we are born with much like beauty and height. I’m lacking in both. I wish I was more intelligent and had more drive. University show me that some men and women are simply more intelligent and capable than others . A humbling experience
A similar article could be written about the many “back to nature” loonies that seem ubiquitous these days. Many have no right or left ideology. Many consider the human species a plague. Others have fondness for how native Americans lived before the arrival of Europeans. At the end of the article the author refers to IQ silliness. The IQ problem is something both the right and the left have a big problem facing. IQ isn’t perfect but there is human intelectual ability and however you measure it, it’s not distributed equally and it doesn’t change . The same way no amount or training will make a male with 160 cm grow to be 200cm tall. It’s unfortunate and inteligence and drive are things we are born with much like beauty and height. I’m lacking in both. I wish I was more intelligent and had more drive. University show me that some men and women are simply more intelligent and capable than others . A humbling experience
The dichotomy is part of Western Civilization. That does not it good. It is still bad, very bad, but denying the role of dichotomous thinking is to ignore an extreme strong aspect of our current troubles.
http://bit.ly/2yxk1IT June 21, 2018, CityWatch, The Dangers of Dichotomy: The Saved vs. The Damned, by Richard Lee Abrams
Also, dichotomy makes $$$. When politicos like Nancy Pelosi or Donald Trump can inject fear and hated into politics, they can make a fortune.
https://bit.ly/3fUBy1z April 8, 2021, CityWatch, Hate Money Stalks America, by Richard Lee Abrams
He looks absolutely offal.
Incels who think Donald Trump is the epitome of masculinity – who cares?
Lol, you’re such a pathetic lowlife.
I get the impression you’re not very old.
Lol, you’re such a pathetic lowlife.
I get the impression you’re not very old.
Incels who think Donald Trump is the epitome of masculinity – who cares?