Here we go again! A British Public Enquiry that wil cost a fortune, go on for years, and establish very little.
Have we forgotten the outrageous Saville Enquiry that lasted 10 years and cost a simply staggering £400 million?
What did it achieve? Only to reverse the opinion of Lord Chief Justice Widgery and his 11 week Enquiry of nearly 40 years before.
Not a good result for British Justice however you look at it.
John Passmore Widgery, Baron Widgery, OBE, TD, PC (24 July 1911 – 26 July 1981) served as Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, and thus was considerably ‘senior’ to Saville. To malign him as you and some of the media do is simply scandalous.
Sadly, only in England can one Judge open his mouth for another to condemn him.
The whole so called “Bloody Sunday” farrago is yet another example of ‘ Irish exceptionalism’,
aided and abetted by the USA & NORAID.
On what basis was the structure being “insulated” in the first place?
Absolutely not on the basis of any credible cost / benefit analysis, that is certain.
And why was gas pipework being incompetently installed in a multi storey?
Banned since Ronan Point disaster in the mid 1960s.
Dozens more strange issues apparently unconsidered.
Why?
In a perfect world, The (Royal) Borough of Kensington & Chelsea would be stripped of its royal prefix, and most of its staff charged with a Capital offence.
Sadly we live in “dear old blo*dy old England, of telegraph poles and tin” as the late Poet Laureate, Sir John Betjeman so prosaically put it.
What is the point of this tone deaf grandstanding, seemingly entirely ignoring everything written in the article?. I suppose on no account must blame the private manufacturers, architects, designers, etc who set the stage for this tragedy. The vast majority of Kensington and Chelsea employees of course had absolutely nothing to do with it, those who had should of course be held to account
I agree with you over the ‘private’ contractors etc.
However the ultimate responsibility still lies with RBK&C, and in particular with the relevant planning department, which if I recall correctly was headed by someone who was rather keen advocate of trepanning!
Obviously the ‘rank and file’ are not to blame.
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
It feels like every time I hear Grenfell mentioned in the media it prefaces a lashing out at the U.K. establishment and, often, white society – a stick with which to beat the people. It’s become such a common and potent symbol for the very wide range of people, unconnected to the Grenfell tragedy but who passionately hate the U.K., to unleash their fury that I immediately stop listening, change the channel, etc. Windrush is used in the same way.
It’s been exploited to the extreme just like the Floyd death in the USA, and I’m thoroughly fed up with seeing the tragedy exploited so callously.
What I don’t like about my tired reaction is that I can see my sympathy for the unfairness of racism and poverty, which I acknowledge to still be a problem (but rapidly diminishing in the UK), is declining to the point that I now switch off when the subject is raised in the media.
Well thanks Charles.
None of it is personal as Kathleen says!
Last edited 1 year ago by Ian Stewart
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
In any disaster a single failure tends to ripple out and be amplified or at least not prevented by other failures. In this sense many are implicated in the final disaster. However, the law tends to address the immediate cause rather than all the peripheral or remote causes. For this reason many will be dissatisfied with any criminal proceedings that eventuate.
The introduction of the unsafe panel into the whole building system without properly highlighting the risks which it presented in certain circumstances of which they were aware was the fundamental cause which was not subsequently picked up on down the line. It is hard to see how those involved here can escape prosecution.
The gloriously unchained post-Brexit Britain needs this silly inquiry to go away. If we insist on having detailed standards and regulations about such things, we will stifle the economy and it’d be nearly as bad as being in the EU. After all, what are a few plebeian deaths (some of whom may have been immigrants anyway) when set against the greater good of cutting nasty red tape? People need to sort out their priorities here.
I can only assume that you are making an attempt at humour. This tragedy has shown Britain up to be no more than a corrupt semi third world state. All those involved in the planning, manufacturing and installation of the cladding should have been rounded up and thrown in prison to await trial.
As it stands the evil has been compounded by this farce.
“All those involved in the planning, manufacturing and installation of the cladding should have been rounded up and thrown in prison to await trial.”
That really would be a third world country
I know you meant this as satire.
But the you skipped in a genuinely ironical bit:
“After all, what are a few plebeian deaths (some of whom may have been immigrants anyway) ”
Those plebs and immigrants are habitually handed cheap or literally free accommodation in the prime parts of London, while working people have to travel an hour or more to reach their jobs.
And not just that. If Grenfell had non pleb / immigrant, working class people there wouldn’t be even one tenth of the fuss.
It would be brushed under the carpet like the victims of Rotherham or the underperforming white boys of England.
Margaret Donaldson
1 year ago
Why not keep it simple and prosecute under the Trades Description Act: a material was sold under false pretences?
R Wright
1 year ago
Our society is filled with despicable wretches who put greed over the common good.
R Wright
1 year ago
Our society is filled with despicable wretches who put greed over the common good.
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Neither did the government’s KC address the fact that deregulation, often presented with the bitterly portentous framing of a bonfires of red tape, was prioritised above an urgent call from the coroner investigating six deaths at Lakanal House …
Deregulation in all such areas leads to lax product evaluations and/or lax enforcement since the incentive structure in private sector regulation is not merely conflicted, but self-annihilating. Much like the competitive bid regime for external company audits, only far more so. The incentive of the regulated entity is to buy the services of the least rigorous private sector regulatory certifier.
JR Stoker
1 year ago
Should we not wait to see what the report resulting from the enquiry actually says?
Here we go again! A British Public Enquiry that wil cost a fortune, go on for years, and establish very little.
Have we forgotten the outrageous Saville Enquiry that lasted 10 years and cost a simply staggering £400 million?
What did it achieve? Only to reverse the opinion of Lord Chief Justice Widgery and his 11 week Enquiry of nearly 40 years before.
Not a good result for British Justice however you look at it.
Grenfell? anything to do with Morgan Grenfell? fine merchant bank…
I don’t think so in this case, just a bit 19th century street naming.
Incidentally are Morgan Grenfell still going?
Grenfell Street, named after Francis Grenfell, 1st Baron Grenfell. A veteran of the Zulu and Anglo-Egyptian wars, according to Wiki
Thanks, that sounds correct.
Widgery was a corrupt cover-up, lies heaped on lies.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a-judge-who-seems-to-have-escaped-judgment-tnvfb3bjf8h
I guess you prefer cheap lies to expensive truth.
I am sorry but I do NOT agree.
John Passmore Widgery, Baron Widgery, OBE, TD, PC (24 July 1911 – 26 July 1981) served as Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, and thus was considerably ‘senior’ to Saville. To malign him as you and some of the media do is simply scandalous.
Sadly, only in England can one Judge open his mouth for another to condemn him.
The whole so called “Bloody Sunday” farrago is yet another example of ‘ Irish exceptionalism’,
aided and abetted by the USA & NORAID.
Your last sentence demeans you.
On what basis was the structure being “insulated” in the first place?
Absolutely not on the basis of any credible cost / benefit analysis, that is certain.
And why was gas pipework being incompetently installed in a multi storey?
Banned since Ronan Point disaster in the mid 1960s.
Dozens more strange issues apparently unconsidered.
Why?
In a perfect world, The (Royal) Borough of Kensington & Chelsea would be stripped of its royal prefix, and most of its staff charged with a Capital offence.
Sadly we live in “dear old blo*dy old England, of telegraph poles and tin” as the late Poet Laureate, Sir John Betjeman so prosaically put it.
What is the point of this tone deaf grandstanding, seemingly entirely ignoring everything written in the article?. I suppose on no account must blame the private manufacturers, architects, designers, etc who set the stage for this tragedy. The vast majority of Kensington and Chelsea employees of course had absolutely nothing to do with it, those who had should of course be held to account
I agree with you over the ‘private’ contractors etc.
However the ultimate responsibility still lies with RBK&C, and in particular with the relevant planning department, which if I recall correctly was headed by someone who was rather keen advocate of trepanning!
Obviously the ‘rank and file’ are not to blame.
It feels like every time I hear Grenfell mentioned in the media it prefaces a lashing out at the U.K. establishment and, often, white society – a stick with which to beat the people. It’s become such a common and potent symbol for the very wide range of people, unconnected to the Grenfell tragedy but who passionately hate the U.K., to unleash their fury that I immediately stop listening, change the channel, etc. Windrush is used in the same way.
It’s been exploited to the extreme just like the Floyd death in the USA, and I’m thoroughly fed up with seeing the tragedy exploited so callously.
What I don’t like about my tired reaction is that I can see my sympathy for the unfairness of racism and poverty, which I acknowledge to still be a problem (but rapidly diminishing in the UK), is declining to the point that I now switch off when the subject is raised in the media.
Well done Mr Stewart, something cogent at last!
Quite a change from your normal barrage of snide remarks, if I may say so.
Keep it up old chap!
Well thanks Charles.
None of it is personal as Kathleen says!
In any disaster a single failure tends to ripple out and be amplified or at least not prevented by other failures. In this sense many are implicated in the final disaster. However, the law tends to address the immediate cause rather than all the peripheral or remote causes. For this reason many will be dissatisfied with any criminal proceedings that eventuate.
The introduction of the unsafe panel into the whole building system without properly highlighting the risks which it presented in certain circumstances of which they were aware was the fundamental cause which was not subsequently picked up on down the line. It is hard to see how those involved here can escape prosecution.
The gloriously unchained post-Brexit Britain needs this silly inquiry to go away. If we insist on having detailed standards and regulations about such things, we will stifle the economy and it’d be nearly as bad as being in the EU. After all, what are a few plebeian deaths (some of whom may have been immigrants anyway) when set against the greater good of cutting nasty red tape? People need to sort out their priorities here.
What coruscating irony! Really makes you think
What if they had all been Paddies, or have you been on the Bushmills?
I can only assume that you are making an attempt at humour. This tragedy has shown Britain up to be no more than a corrupt semi third world state. All those involved in the planning, manufacturing and installation of the cladding should have been rounded up and thrown in prison to await trial.
As it stands the evil has been compounded by this farce.
Strikes me more like classic performance of a top-down administrative state.
“All those involved in the planning, manufacturing and installation of the cladding should have been rounded up and thrown in prison to await trial.”
That really would be a third world country
I know you meant this as satire.
But the you skipped in a genuinely ironical bit:
“After all, what are a few plebeian deaths (some of whom may have been immigrants anyway) ”
Those plebs and immigrants are habitually handed cheap or literally free accommodation in the prime parts of London, while working people have to travel an hour or more to reach their jobs.
And not just that. If Grenfell had non pleb / immigrant, working class people there wouldn’t be even one tenth of the fuss.
It would be brushed under the carpet like the victims of Rotherham or the underperforming white boys of England.
Why not keep it simple and prosecute under the Trades Description Act: a material was sold under false pretences?
Our society is filled with despicable wretches who put greed over the common good.
Our society is filled with despicable wretches who put greed over the common good.
Neither did the government’s KC address the fact that deregulation, often presented with the bitterly portentous framing of a bonfires of red tape, was prioritised above an urgent call from the coroner investigating six deaths at Lakanal House …
Deregulation in all such areas leads to lax product evaluations and/or lax enforcement since the incentive structure in private sector regulation is not merely conflicted, but self-annihilating. Much like the competitive bid regime for external company audits, only far more so. The incentive of the regulated entity is to buy the services of the least rigorous private sector regulatory certifier.
Should we not wait to see what the report resulting from the enquiry actually says?