Tbf if I was to sit at home all day with daytime telly on and perusing social media. I’d probably be driven to drugs and despair.
Half the problem is that many of the jobs that require minimal qualifications or experience are mind numbing and depressing and the more vocational jobs that come with a degree of satisfaction are very low paid. We have many young people today who are not academic and yet being forced to remain in education till 18 with very little available for them in terms of apprenticeship till they’re over 18. They become disillusioned with education and work.
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Tbf if I was to sit at home all day with daytime telly on and perusing social media. I’d probably be driven to drugs and despair.
Half the problem is that many of the jobs that require minimal qualifications or experience are mind numbing and depressing and the more vocational jobs that come with a degree of satisfaction are very low paid. We have many young people today who are not academic and yet being forced to remain in education till 18 with very little available for them in terms of apprenticeship till they’re over 18. They become disillusioned with education and work.
James Kirk
1 year ago
They threw the baby out with the bathwater. The Scouts, the Cadet Corps, National Service. What happened to the biker vicar who ran the Youth Club? Now a simpering liberal leftie wokist or a harrassed bloke juggling a budget for his three churches while Bishops dress up in robes and pontificate about LGB.
Who do the poor kids look up to? Go to for help? The well dressed bloke in the shiny car, a pocket full of fifties and little bags of pills for his Mum or to sell on for some pocket money.
James Kirk
1 year ago
They threw the baby out with the bathwater. The Scouts, the Cadet Corps, National Service. What happened to the biker vicar who ran the Youth Club? Now a simpering liberal leftie wokist or a harrassed bloke juggling a budget for his three churches while Bishops dress up in robes and pontificate about LGB.
Who do the poor kids look up to? Go to for help? The well dressed bloke in the shiny car, a pocket full of fifties and little bags of pills for his Mum or to sell on for some pocket money.
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
All men’s miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone.
All men’s miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone.
Blaise Pascal
Chris W
1 year ago
The commentator compares his life struggling in poverty with the way things are today. Those of us who can remember life in the 50s will realise that the definition of poverty has changed.
I grew up on an estate where people didn’t have cars or telephones. Our household was relatively rich because both of my parents worked. That meant that even in primary school I had a key to get into the house after school.
Today’s definition of poverty is completely different; it simply means that families have everything they need but they don’t have choices. If they buy the latest pair of trainers they have to cut back on food. Hardly poverty!!
There is a running “protest” in my state, where the homeless are living in tents on the state house lawn. BTW, the tents look new and the “homeless” are well-dressed, taking photos and creating videos showing their distress on their iPhones.
Your life sounds so familiar to me (except that my mother only worked part-time), I remember the key around the neck and the jam sarnies laid out for when we got home. I think one of the main differences is that there just wasn’t as much to buy; all these consumer electronics and other items that I see in shop windows, a lot of the time I don’t even know what they do, and if I do know I just wonder why anyone would want one. Another major difference is that food was relatively more expensive in the 50s and 60s, but housing costs were lower and there was much more in the way of social (council) housing. Although unemployment benefit has remained largely the same when controlled for RPI it has fallen significantly in proportion to wages since 1970, but it started to pickup again in 2010, but it’s still something like 12% compared with c22% in 1970, which means that an unemployed person would “feel” worse off.
There is a running “protest” in my state, where the homeless are living in tents on the state house lawn. BTW, the tents look new and the “homeless” are well-dressed, taking photos and creating videos showing their distress on their iPhones.
Your life sounds so familiar to me (except that my mother only worked part-time), I remember the key around the neck and the jam sarnies laid out for when we got home. I think one of the main differences is that there just wasn’t as much to buy; all these consumer electronics and other items that I see in shop windows, a lot of the time I don’t even know what they do, and if I do know I just wonder why anyone would want one. Another major difference is that food was relatively more expensive in the 50s and 60s, but housing costs were lower and there was much more in the way of social (council) housing. Although unemployment benefit has remained largely the same when controlled for RPI it has fallen significantly in proportion to wages since 1970, but it started to pickup again in 2010, but it’s still something like 12% compared with c22% in 1970, which means that an unemployed person would “feel” worse off.
Chris W
1 year ago
The commentator compares his life struggling in poverty with the way things are today. Those of us who can remember life in the 50s will realise that the definition of poverty has changed.
I grew up on an estate where people didn’t have cars or telephones. Our household was relatively rich because both of my parents worked. That meant that even in primary school I had a key to get into the house after school.
Today’s definition of poverty is completely different; it simply means that families have everything they need but they don’t have choices. If they buy the latest pair of trainers they have to cut back on food. Hardly poverty!!
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
IDLENESS!
Now as you might expect the Ancient Romans had the answer to that, lavish public entertainment or ‘Games’.
First, the Circus, an enormous venue devoted to Chariot Racing, a combination of Formula I & Death in the Afternoon. The Circus Maximus in Rome is thought to have accommodated upwards of 250,000 bodies! Even the remote Province of Britannia had at least one (somewhat smaller) Circus in Colchester!
Next the Amphitheater for ‘full on’ blood sports, occasionally …‘sine missione’- without mercy! The Flavian Amphitheater otherwise known as the Colosseum seated upwards of 50,000 bodies, that at Nimes about 20,000, whilst those in Britannia about 7,000.
Then for more intellectual pursuits the Theatre, seating normally about 5-10,000. Open air, day long plays and pantomime, from where incidentally we derive the word fornication!
Alternatively for musical recitals, poetry reading or lectures there was the Odeon, a roofed building, similar to the Theatre but considerably smaller, seating about 500-1,000.
Finally after such an exhausting day a visit to the Thermae- Baths was axiomatic. Larger than most medieval Cathedrals, these were vast hydro engineering masterpieces, lavishly equipped with nearly every luxury one could desire, Gymnasiums, Libraries, Brothels,Bars and so forth.
All this from a pre-Industrial society, virtually free, open to all, women and slaves included! What more could one ask for?
As PBS*would have said “Look on my works ye mighty and despair “.
Idleness is not a political problem, it is an attitude of mind. An article blaming social problems on idleness is a nonsense. The cause and effect should be reversed.
Maybe in some circumstances but idleness is a big problem if you want to get on. No boss wants an idle worker and I think the proverb “the devil makes use of idle hands” has a truth in it.
Maybe in some circumstances but idleness is a big problem if you want to get on. No boss wants an idle worker and I think the proverb “the devil makes use of idle hands” has a truth in it.
Just one minor quibble – the term “games” (or, more accurately, “munerae” with its religious connotation which is very boring unless you are facinated by the Romans, as I am) was reserved for the amphitheatre goings-on. Additionally, the thermae were cheap, so everyone could afford it, and women had their own private sessions (no trans Romans allowed here).
You are perfectly correct, but ever conscious of the Censor, I thought it might be better to condense the facts, and keep it simple.
Like you I am also fascinated by this subject!
You are perfectly correct, but ever conscious of the Censor, I thought it might be better to condense the facts, and keep it simple.
Like you I am also fascinated by this subject!
Far cry from Colchester nowadays, full of tatooed beardies in hoodies and trackies, whose only useful function is as late night punchbags for pissed Paras ….
Idleness is not a political problem, it is an attitude of mind. An article blaming social problems on idleness is a nonsense. The cause and effect should be reversed.
Just one minor quibble – the term “games” (or, more accurately, “munerae” with its religious connotation which is very boring unless you are facinated by the Romans, as I am) was reserved for the amphitheatre goings-on. Additionally, the thermae were cheap, so everyone could afford it, and women had their own private sessions (no trans Romans allowed here).
Far cry from Colchester nowadays, full of tatooed beardies in hoodies and trackies, whose only useful function is as late night punchbags for pissed Paras ….
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
IDLENESS!
Now as you might expect the Ancient Romans had the answer to that, lavish public entertainment or ‘Games’.
First, the Circus, an enormous venue devoted to Chariot Racing, a combination of Formula I & Death in the Afternoon. The Circus Maximus in Rome is thought to have accommodated upwards of 250,000 bodies! Even the remote Province of Britannia had at least one (somewhat smaller) Circus in Colchester!
Next the Amphitheater for ‘full on’ blood sports, occasionally …‘sine missione’- without mercy! The Flavian Amphitheater otherwise known as the Colosseum seated upwards of 50,000 bodies, that at Nimes about 20,000, whilst those in Britannia about 7,000.
Then for more intellectual pursuits the Theatre, seating normally about 5-10,000. Open air, day long plays and pantomime, from where incidentally we derive the word fornication!
Alternatively for musical recitals, poetry reading or lectures there was the Odeon, a roofed building, similar to the Theatre but considerably smaller, seating about 500-1,000.
Finally after such an exhausting day a visit to the Thermae- Baths was axiomatic. Larger than most medieval Cathedrals, these were vast hydro engineering masterpieces, lavishly equipped with nearly every luxury one could desire, Gymnasiums, Libraries, Brothels,Bars and so forth.
All this from a pre-Industrial society, virtually free, open to all, women and slaves included! What more could one ask for?
As PBS*would have said “Look on my works ye mighty and despair “.
(*Percy Bysshe Shelley.)
Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Charlie Rose
1 year ago
“…because even as children, we knew that, for things to change, there had to be a fundamental reassessment of the way the entire society had been stacked and who was benefiting.”
The main purpose of entrenched power, whether in Government, Corporations, academia, or even science, engineering and the arts, is to retain power. Those benefitting are those loyal to, or loved by, the elite in the power structure – the friends and family of the leaders. The same is true when a community is run by drug dealers and gangsters.
You don’t want to get on the wrong side of the law, because they can make your life a living hell, take away all your freedom, and in many countries, even legally put you to death. But you don’t want to get on the wrong side of the local bosses either. The problem for the masses in most places around the world is walking the fine line between a local gangster society and the legal government society, where both are corrupt.
Charlie Rose
1 year ago
“…because even as children, we knew that, for things to change, there had to be a fundamental reassessment of the way the entire society had been stacked and who was benefiting.”
The main purpose of entrenched power, whether in Government, Corporations, academia, or even science, engineering and the arts, is to retain power. Those benefitting are those loyal to, or loved by, the elite in the power structure – the friends and family of the leaders. The same is true when a community is run by drug dealers and gangsters.
You don’t want to get on the wrong side of the law, because they can make your life a living hell, take away all your freedom, and in many countries, even legally put you to death. But you don’t want to get on the wrong side of the local bosses either. The problem for the masses in most places around the world is walking the fine line between a local gangster society and the legal government society, where both are corrupt.
Martin Bollis
1 year ago
And yet, Darran, you are now writing articles for Unherd. What, really, was the difference between you and your mates? Personal choices, parents? Presumably, since we’ve controlled for background, not all the “others” you’ve blamed.
Martin Bollis
1 year ago
And yet, Darran, you are now writing articles for Unherd. What, really, was the difference between you and your mates? Personal choices, parents? Presumably, since we’ve controlled for background, not all the “others” you’ve blamed.
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Many are struggling but some have been given a house and plenty of benefits. Therefore some who would have been homeless and in poverty are helped. Around my way there are thousands and thousands of council houses may of them filled by immigrants who have just arrived here. Even the boat people are in posh hotels and stately homes with a visit from a doctor twice a week. Now they are working out what employment they will do. Everyone that was on the steet where I live have been housed. And yet I know that the problem is real in other places. I don’t know what is wrong with the employment situation but I suspect it is to do with global remainer type of companies which are supported instead of small companies where you can learn much more and gain a skill to start on the ladder. So basically it is a political problem created by governments and particularly this government which is betraying ordinary people and seems to have lost it’s way.
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Many are struggling but some have been given a house and plenty of benefits. Therefore some who would have been homeless and in poverty are helped. Around my way there are thousands and thousands of council houses may of them filled by immigrants who have just arrived here. Even the boat people are in posh hotels and stately homes with a visit from a doctor twice a week. Now they are working out what employment they will do. Everyone that was on the steet where I live have been housed. And yet I know that the problem is real in other places. I don’t know what is wrong with the employment situation but I suspect it is to do with global remainer type of companies which are supported instead of small companies where you can learn much more and gain a skill to start on the ladder. So basically it is a political problem created by governments and particularly this government which is betraying ordinary people and seems to have lost it’s way.
Tbf if I was to sit at home all day with daytime telly on and perusing social media. I’d probably be driven to drugs and despair.
Half the problem is that many of the jobs that require minimal qualifications or experience are mind numbing and depressing and the more vocational jobs that come with a degree of satisfaction are very low paid. We have many young people today who are not academic and yet being forced to remain in education till 18 with very little available for them in terms of apprenticeship till they’re over 18. They become disillusioned with education and work.
Tbf if I was to sit at home all day with daytime telly on and perusing social media. I’d probably be driven to drugs and despair.
Half the problem is that many of the jobs that require minimal qualifications or experience are mind numbing and depressing and the more vocational jobs that come with a degree of satisfaction are very low paid. We have many young people today who are not academic and yet being forced to remain in education till 18 with very little available for them in terms of apprenticeship till they’re over 18. They become disillusioned with education and work.
They threw the baby out with the bathwater. The Scouts, the Cadet Corps, National Service. What happened to the biker vicar who ran the Youth Club? Now a simpering liberal leftie wokist or a harrassed bloke juggling a budget for his three churches while Bishops dress up in robes and pontificate about LGB.
Who do the poor kids look up to? Go to for help? The well dressed bloke in the shiny car, a pocket full of fifties and little bags of pills for his Mum or to sell on for some pocket money.
They threw the baby out with the bathwater. The Scouts, the Cadet Corps, National Service. What happened to the biker vicar who ran the Youth Club? Now a simpering liberal leftie wokist or a harrassed bloke juggling a budget for his three churches while Bishops dress up in robes and pontificate about LGB.
Who do the poor kids look up to? Go to for help? The well dressed bloke in the shiny car, a pocket full of fifties and little bags of pills for his Mum or to sell on for some pocket money.
All men’s miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone.
Blaise Pascal
Are you sûre…..all of them…
Are you sûre…..all of them…
All men’s miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone.
Blaise Pascal
The commentator compares his life struggling in poverty with the way things are today. Those of us who can remember life in the 50s will realise that the definition of poverty has changed.
I grew up on an estate where people didn’t have cars or telephones. Our household was relatively rich because both of my parents worked. That meant that even in primary school I had a key to get into the house after school.
Today’s definition of poverty is completely different; it simply means that families have everything they need but they don’t have choices. If they buy the latest pair of trainers they have to cut back on food. Hardly poverty!!
There is a running “protest” in my state, where the homeless are living in tents on the state house lawn. BTW, the tents look new and the “homeless” are well-dressed, taking photos and creating videos showing their distress on their iPhones.
Your life sounds so familiar to me (except that my mother only worked part-time), I remember the key around the neck and the jam sarnies laid out for when we got home. I think one of the main differences is that there just wasn’t as much to buy; all these consumer electronics and other items that I see in shop windows, a lot of the time I don’t even know what they do, and if I do know I just wonder why anyone would want one. Another major difference is that food was relatively more expensive in the 50s and 60s, but housing costs were lower and there was much more in the way of social (council) housing. Although unemployment benefit has remained largely the same when controlled for RPI it has fallen significantly in proportion to wages since 1970, but it started to pickup again in 2010, but it’s still something like 12% compared with c22% in 1970, which means that an unemployed person would “feel” worse off.
There is a running “protest” in my state, where the homeless are living in tents on the state house lawn. BTW, the tents look new and the “homeless” are well-dressed, taking photos and creating videos showing their distress on their iPhones.
Your life sounds so familiar to me (except that my mother only worked part-time), I remember the key around the neck and the jam sarnies laid out for when we got home. I think one of the main differences is that there just wasn’t as much to buy; all these consumer electronics and other items that I see in shop windows, a lot of the time I don’t even know what they do, and if I do know I just wonder why anyone would want one. Another major difference is that food was relatively more expensive in the 50s and 60s, but housing costs were lower and there was much more in the way of social (council) housing. Although unemployment benefit has remained largely the same when controlled for RPI it has fallen significantly in proportion to wages since 1970, but it started to pickup again in 2010, but it’s still something like 12% compared with c22% in 1970, which means that an unemployed person would “feel” worse off.
The commentator compares his life struggling in poverty with the way things are today. Those of us who can remember life in the 50s will realise that the definition of poverty has changed.
I grew up on an estate where people didn’t have cars or telephones. Our household was relatively rich because both of my parents worked. That meant that even in primary school I had a key to get into the house after school.
Today’s definition of poverty is completely different; it simply means that families have everything they need but they don’t have choices. If they buy the latest pair of trainers they have to cut back on food. Hardly poverty!!
IDLENESS!
Now as you might expect the Ancient Romans had the answer to that, lavish public entertainment or ‘Games’.
First, the Circus, an enormous venue devoted to Chariot Racing, a combination of Formula I & Death in the Afternoon. The Circus Maximus in Rome is thought to have accommodated upwards of 250,000 bodies! Even the remote Province of Britannia had at least one (somewhat smaller) Circus in Colchester!
Next the Amphitheater for ‘full on’ blood sports, occasionally …‘sine missione’- without mercy! The Flavian Amphitheater otherwise known as the Colosseum seated upwards of 50,000 bodies, that at Nimes about 20,000, whilst those in Britannia about 7,000.
Then for more intellectual pursuits the Theatre, seating normally about 5-10,000. Open air, day long plays and pantomime, from where incidentally we derive the word fornication!
Alternatively for musical recitals, poetry reading or lectures there was the Odeon, a roofed building, similar to the Theatre but considerably smaller, seating about 500-1,000.
Finally after such an exhausting day a visit to the Thermae- Baths was axiomatic. Larger than most medieval Cathedrals, these were vast hydro engineering masterpieces, lavishly equipped with nearly every luxury one could desire, Gymnasiums, Libraries, Brothels,Bars and so forth.
All this from a pre-Industrial society, virtually free, open to all, women and slaves included! What more could one ask for?
As PBS*would have said “Look on my works ye mighty and despair “.
(*Percy Bysshe Shelley.)
Thanks for your penultimate paragraph.
Idleness is not a political problem, it is an attitude of mind. An article blaming social problems on idleness is a nonsense. The cause and effect should be reversed.
Exactly. Idleness causes indigence … diligence causes adequacy. Both causes are attitudes of mind.
Maybe in some circumstances but idleness is a big problem if you want to get on. No boss wants an idle worker and I think the proverb “the devil makes use of idle hands” has a truth in it.
Exactly. Idleness causes indigence … diligence causes adequacy. Both causes are attitudes of mind.
Maybe in some circumstances but idleness is a big problem if you want to get on. No boss wants an idle worker and I think the proverb “the devil makes use of idle hands” has a truth in it.
Just one minor quibble – the term “games” (or, more accurately, “munerae” with its religious connotation which is very boring unless you are facinated by the Romans, as I am) was reserved for the amphitheatre goings-on. Additionally, the thermae were cheap, so everyone could afford it, and women had their own private sessions (no trans Romans allowed here).
You are perfectly correct, but ever conscious of the Censor, I thought it might be better to condense the facts, and keep it simple.
Like you I am also fascinated by this subject!
You are perfectly correct, but ever conscious of the Censor, I thought it might be better to condense the facts, and keep it simple.
Like you I am also fascinated by this subject!
Far cry from Colchester nowadays, full of tatooed beardies in hoodies and trackies, whose only useful function is as late night punchbags for pissed Paras ….
Ah but Aldershot is delighted the Paras have moved on.
Ah but Aldershot is delighted the Paras have moved on.
Thanks for your penultimate paragraph.
Idleness is not a political problem, it is an attitude of mind. An article blaming social problems on idleness is a nonsense. The cause and effect should be reversed.
Just one minor quibble – the term “games” (or, more accurately, “munerae” with its religious connotation which is very boring unless you are facinated by the Romans, as I am) was reserved for the amphitheatre goings-on. Additionally, the thermae were cheap, so everyone could afford it, and women had their own private sessions (no trans Romans allowed here).
Far cry from Colchester nowadays, full of tatooed beardies in hoodies and trackies, whose only useful function is as late night punchbags for pissed Paras ….
IDLENESS!
Now as you might expect the Ancient Romans had the answer to that, lavish public entertainment or ‘Games’.
First, the Circus, an enormous venue devoted to Chariot Racing, a combination of Formula I & Death in the Afternoon. The Circus Maximus in Rome is thought to have accommodated upwards of 250,000 bodies! Even the remote Province of Britannia had at least one (somewhat smaller) Circus in Colchester!
Next the Amphitheater for ‘full on’ blood sports, occasionally …‘sine missione’- without mercy! The Flavian Amphitheater otherwise known as the Colosseum seated upwards of 50,000 bodies, that at Nimes about 20,000, whilst those in Britannia about 7,000.
Then for more intellectual pursuits the Theatre, seating normally about 5-10,000. Open air, day long plays and pantomime, from where incidentally we derive the word fornication!
Alternatively for musical recitals, poetry reading or lectures there was the Odeon, a roofed building, similar to the Theatre but considerably smaller, seating about 500-1,000.
Finally after such an exhausting day a visit to the Thermae- Baths was axiomatic. Larger than most medieval Cathedrals, these were vast hydro engineering masterpieces, lavishly equipped with nearly every luxury one could desire, Gymnasiums, Libraries, Brothels,Bars and so forth.
All this from a pre-Industrial society, virtually free, open to all, women and slaves included! What more could one ask for?
As PBS*would have said “Look on my works ye mighty and despair “.
(*Percy Bysshe Shelley.)
“…because even as children, we knew that, for things to change, there had to be a fundamental reassessment of the way the entire society had been stacked and who was benefiting.”
The main purpose of entrenched power, whether in Government, Corporations, academia, or even science, engineering and the arts, is to retain power. Those benefitting are those loyal to, or loved by, the elite in the power structure – the friends and family of the leaders. The same is true when a community is run by drug dealers and gangsters.
You don’t want to get on the wrong side of the law, because they can make your life a living hell, take away all your freedom, and in many countries, even legally put you to death. But you don’t want to get on the wrong side of the local bosses either. The problem for the masses in most places around the world is walking the fine line between a local gangster society and the legal government society, where both are corrupt.
“…because even as children, we knew that, for things to change, there had to be a fundamental reassessment of the way the entire society had been stacked and who was benefiting.”
The main purpose of entrenched power, whether in Government, Corporations, academia, or even science, engineering and the arts, is to retain power. Those benefitting are those loyal to, or loved by, the elite in the power structure – the friends and family of the leaders. The same is true when a community is run by drug dealers and gangsters.
You don’t want to get on the wrong side of the law, because they can make your life a living hell, take away all your freedom, and in many countries, even legally put you to death. But you don’t want to get on the wrong side of the local bosses either. The problem for the masses in most places around the world is walking the fine line between a local gangster society and the legal government society, where both are corrupt.
And yet, Darran, you are now writing articles for Unherd. What, really, was the difference between you and your mates? Personal choices, parents? Presumably, since we’ve controlled for background, not all the “others” you’ve blamed.
And yet, Darran, you are now writing articles for Unherd. What, really, was the difference between you and your mates? Personal choices, parents? Presumably, since we’ve controlled for background, not all the “others” you’ve blamed.
Many are struggling but some have been given a house and plenty of benefits. Therefore some who would have been homeless and in poverty are helped. Around my way there are thousands and thousands of council houses may of them filled by immigrants who have just arrived here. Even the boat people are in posh hotels and stately homes with a visit from a doctor twice a week. Now they are working out what employment they will do. Everyone that was on the steet where I live have been housed. And yet I know that the problem is real in other places. I don’t know what is wrong with the employment situation but I suspect it is to do with global remainer type of companies which are supported instead of small companies where you can learn much more and gain a skill to start on the ladder. So basically it is a political problem created by governments and particularly this government which is betraying ordinary people and seems to have lost it’s way.
Many are struggling but some have been given a house and plenty of benefits. Therefore some who would have been homeless and in poverty are helped. Around my way there are thousands and thousands of council houses may of them filled by immigrants who have just arrived here. Even the boat people are in posh hotels and stately homes with a visit from a doctor twice a week. Now they are working out what employment they will do. Everyone that was on the steet where I live have been housed. And yet I know that the problem is real in other places. I don’t know what is wrong with the employment situation but I suspect it is to do with global remainer type of companies which are supported instead of small companies where you can learn much more and gain a skill to start on the ladder. So basically it is a political problem created by governments and particularly this government which is betraying ordinary people and seems to have lost it’s way.