It’s so absurd that a Marxist state like China exists for all to see and yet we have Marxists in our Western communities trying to drive us in that direction. Whatever they might say about Marxism to suit their ideological wars, this is Marxism in action. There is no collective wealth, the people are not cared for, even though China has a huge successful economy, there is no equality and there is no assured future.
This is no right-wing rhetoric, it’s there to see. There is no reason for Marxism to have not succeeded in China. They are powerful enough to exist without fear, they have enough money to influence other countries and they feel strong enough to put pressure on the West in their own interests. So why hasn’t it succeeded? Well, we know why: because it’s a lie.
Does anyone seriously believe that China is being run as a Marxist state?
Who owns the “means of production”?
Lip service to Marxism has been the only possible response to its utopianism.
Marxism is Christianity without God and has far too high an opinion of human nature. The vast majority of people are not interested in working for the common good – it is not a motivator; which is not to say they are not willing to cooperate when it is in their own interest to do so. Those who are the politically most successful in communist regimes are the greatest hypocrites within the society, they are those who will pay lip service to any ideaology to promote themselves. It was not surprising that when Russia switched from communism to capitalism, those high up in the communist party were very quick to switch to capitalism and seize the country’s assets.
China is effectively an autocracy… a capitalist economy heavily regulated by a single controlling body led by a single and ultimate power, for the benefit of the connected and all freedoms to alter this condition rigorously and ruthlessly put down. It is as close to 1984 as you are likely to find ….
Arjen van der Schoot
1 year ago
I’m reading Elizabeth Economy’s book “the world according to China” and find it very insightful. Her research uncovers the reasoning for the sanctioning of the export of USA made or designed chips to China. I paraphrase content from the 5th chapter: “The US initiatives [to block chips], (…) were about the Third Offset – a strategy he worked on at the Pentagon (…) in 2014 to ensure that the United States maintained an innovation edge in military-related technologies and technology platforms. Turpin described a sense of shock when US officials realized how quickly China had developed its own military-technological offset strategy to manage competition with the United States. In order to maintain a deterrent Turpin explained the United States needed to be one to two generations ahead of the competition. If you lose that advantage, there is no deterrent. In a world in which China was now the global hub of electronics manufacturing, however, the Chinese, Turpin argued, “were effectively inside the system with the United States” and “it was no longer possible for the United States to ‘out-innovate’ China and then deny them the fruits of that innovation.”
Last edited 1 year ago by Arjen van der Schoot
Terry M
1 year ago
Income inequality is high in China, partly because of familiar problems of richer households getting most of the benefits of economic growth, but also because wages and salaries — and, therefore, consumption — account for a low proportion of GDP, and the state for a relatively high 40% of GDP. Compared with developed nations, Chinese households are much worse off because social welfare payments and transfers to households account for about 8-9% of GDP, compared with 15-20% in the US and the EU. Let me get this right. China’s government uses 40% of GDP but passes out 8-9% in social benefits. Presumably, the remaining 31% is simply lining the pockets of oligarchs/apparatchiks/CCP members. That is cronyism on an incredible scale. IF the Chinese people ever get the ability to strike back it will be vicious. That’s why we love 2A. “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” ― Thomas Jefferson
Do your research on the Chinese domestic/ retail savings and investment induatry size and growth?
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
The writer suggests there could be unrest if economic inequality isn’t addressed, referring to the Gini measure. But the unrest would only come from the working class masses who are thoroughly suppressed.
Does economic inequality actually help to reinforce an authoritarian regime by ensuring the support of the middle and upper classes? (I’m sure this will have been studied by people.)
Last edited 1 year ago by Ian Stewart
Aaron James
1 year ago
The big one is how to change the GDP from one based on Industry to a Service economy. Because unless they can do that they are done – and the Chinese workers like to make money, not spend it, so I do not think it possible.
but they save! Just look at Ping An and China Life?… add up the billions each week that go into workplace pensions, savings funds, life and health insurance?.. and as millions more come into work, billions more pour into Chinese fund managers… who invest in equities, US treasuries, other bonds…
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
It is only a matter of time, as the older idealog politicians age and die, that ‘ young China’ ditches any semblance of Communism and re-identifies itself as America’s successor as world power no 1.
The Chinese are far to intelligent to adopt the woke LGBT/racism/ global warming new communism cum National Socialism enveloping the US and UK, and in a couple of generations we will be the poor Marxists, and servants to China India and other Asian countries. Meanwhile, Africa will go nowhere apart from re enslavery and re-colonialisation by India and China and the Arab muslim states and Pakistan will slide into oblivion, as their energy power saps away, as the rest of the world advances oil and gas production elsewhere… and the electro/ car/ eco relgion becomes recognised and a lie..
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
Xi overplayed his hand in the prior decade and too many people in the US, including the general public, caught on to China’s economic warfare. The US response, while belated, is not too late to create serious problems for the Chinese economy. Unfortunately, that also gives Xi, or whoever else takes power in China, a ready made scapegoat to blame all the problems on, creating hostility to the US and the West throughout the Chinese public. China then turns their manufacturing capacity away from making cheap crap for Americans and into building weapons, responding to economic troubles in a manner similar to Germany in the 1930’s. That’s the way the ball is rolling and there’s probably no way for anybody, even the leaders of China and the US, to stop it. Even if Xi were to lose power, which seems unlikely, China still faces the same problems the author mentions. Nor is the US likely to backpedal on its containment strategy given that China is deeply disliked by broad swaths of voters on both the left and right, albeit for different reasons. China policy is the one area where the two parties have a broad bipartisan consensus, and that consensus is by and large supported by the American people themselves. A politician trying to rebuild the relationship into what it was in 2010 would likely be doing so against public opinion. In other words, the die is cast. In whatever form it takes, the China-America conflict is happening and everyone will have to either choose a side or walk a dangerous tightrope of trying to appease both without triggering retaliation from the other.
Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jolly
John Huddart
1 year ago
Perhaps this explains Xi’s apparent obsession with ‘re-uniting’ Taiwan with mother China? Fortunately for all concerned, having seen the catastrophic mess that Putin has plunged Russia into, he won’t be keen to follow him down the rabbit hole. So it’s probably just a way of distracting the world and the Chinese people from their current economic woes?
The Ukraine mess is also a precedent for how officially unallied nations support each other with weaponry and tactical advice and can tilt the power equation in unforeseen ways.
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
One thread throughout ‘ Unherd’ are the endless displays of contributors utter ignorance of modern economic, investment and capital markets functions, and their relationship with savings/pensions and retail investment.. AND this relationship to the ownership of companies in the manufacturing sector, and the associated service industries.
see below?
Is it surprising that nu britn is in such an economic and fiscal mess if this medium and its ignorance, and lack of knowledge of matters economic and financial is an example?
It is matched only by the arrogance of the expressed ignorant opinions?!!
It’s so absurd that a Marxist state like China exists for all to see and yet we have Marxists in our Western communities trying to drive us in that direction. Whatever they might say about Marxism to suit their ideological wars, this is Marxism in action. There is no collective wealth, the people are not cared for, even though China has a huge successful economy, there is no equality and there is no assured future.
This is no right-wing rhetoric, it’s there to see. There is no reason for Marxism to have not succeeded in China. They are powerful enough to exist without fear, they have enough money to influence other countries and they feel strong enough to put pressure on the West in their own interests. So why hasn’t it succeeded? Well, we know why: because it’s a lie.
Does anyone seriously believe that China is being run as a Marxist state?
Who owns the “means of production”?
Lip service to Marxism has been the only possible response to its utopianism.
Where has Marxism not turned into an oppressive dictatorship run nominally by the party but in reality by the man with fewest scruples
Marxism has had many chances, where has it been successful
Marxism is Christianity without God and has far too high an opinion of human nature. The vast majority of people are not interested in working for the common good – it is not a motivator; which is not to say they are not willing to cooperate when it is in their own interest to do so. Those who are the politically most successful in communist regimes are the greatest hypocrites within the society, they are those who will pay lip service to any ideaology to promote themselves. It was not surprising that when Russia switched from communism to capitalism, those high up in the communist party were very quick to switch to capitalism and seize the country’s assets.
“Who owns the “means of production”?”
Really. You’re still trotting out that line?
China is effectively an autocracy… a capitalist economy heavily regulated by a single controlling body led by a single and ultimate power, for the benefit of the connected and all freedoms to alter this condition rigorously and ruthlessly put down. It is as close to 1984 as you are likely to find ….
I’m reading Elizabeth Economy’s book “the world according to China” and find it very insightful. Her research uncovers the reasoning for the sanctioning of the export of USA made or designed chips to China. I paraphrase content from the 5th chapter: “The US initiatives [to block chips], (…) were about the Third Offset – a strategy he worked on at the Pentagon (…) in 2014 to ensure that the United States maintained an innovation edge in military-related technologies and technology platforms. Turpin described a sense of shock when US officials realized how quickly China had developed its own military-technological offset strategy to manage competition with the United States. In order to maintain a deterrent Turpin explained the United States needed to be one to two generations ahead of the competition. If you lose that advantage, there is no deterrent. In a world in which China was now the global hub of electronics manufacturing, however, the Chinese, Turpin argued, “were effectively inside the system with the United States” and “it was no longer possible for the United States to ‘out-innovate’ China and then deny them the fruits of that innovation.”
Income inequality is high in China, partly because of familiar problems of richer households getting most of the benefits of economic growth, but also because wages and salaries — and, therefore, consumption — account for a low proportion of GDP, and the state for a relatively high 40% of GDP. Compared with developed nations, Chinese households are much worse off because social welfare payments and transfers to households account for about 8-9% of GDP, compared with 15-20% in the US and the EU.
Let me get this right. China’s government uses 40% of GDP but passes out 8-9% in social benefits. Presumably, the remaining 31% is simply lining the pockets of oligarchs/apparatchiks/CCP members. That is cronyism on an incredible scale.
IF the Chinese people ever get the ability to strike back it will be vicious. That’s why we love 2A.
“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
― Thomas Jefferson
Do your research on the Chinese domestic/ retail savings and investment induatry size and growth?
The writer suggests there could be unrest if economic inequality isn’t addressed, referring to the Gini measure. But the unrest would only come from the working class masses who are thoroughly suppressed.
Does economic inequality actually help to reinforce an authoritarian regime by ensuring the support of the middle and upper classes? (I’m sure this will have been studied by people.)
The big one is how to change the GDP from one based on Industry to a Service economy. Because unless they can do that they are done – and the Chinese workers like to make money, not spend it, so I do not think it possible.
but they save! Just look at Ping An and China Life?… add up the billions each week that go into workplace pensions, savings funds, life and health insurance?.. and as millions more come into work, billions more pour into Chinese fund managers… who invest in equities, US treasuries, other bonds…
It is only a matter of time, as the older idealog politicians age and die, that ‘ young China’ ditches any semblance of Communism and re-identifies itself as America’s successor as world power no 1.
The Chinese are far to intelligent to adopt the woke LGBT/racism/ global warming new communism cum National Socialism enveloping the US and UK, and in a couple of generations we will be the poor Marxists, and servants to China India and other Asian countries. Meanwhile, Africa will go nowhere apart from re enslavery and re-colonialisation by India and China and the Arab muslim states and Pakistan will slide into oblivion, as their energy power saps away, as the rest of the world advances oil and gas production elsewhere… and the electro/ car/ eco relgion becomes recognised and a lie..
Xi overplayed his hand in the prior decade and too many people in the US, including the general public, caught on to China’s economic warfare. The US response, while belated, is not too late to create serious problems for the Chinese economy. Unfortunately, that also gives Xi, or whoever else takes power in China, a ready made scapegoat to blame all the problems on, creating hostility to the US and the West throughout the Chinese public. China then turns their manufacturing capacity away from making cheap crap for Americans and into building weapons, responding to economic troubles in a manner similar to Germany in the 1930’s. That’s the way the ball is rolling and there’s probably no way for anybody, even the leaders of China and the US, to stop it. Even if Xi were to lose power, which seems unlikely, China still faces the same problems the author mentions. Nor is the US likely to backpedal on its containment strategy given that China is deeply disliked by broad swaths of voters on both the left and right, albeit for different reasons. China policy is the one area where the two parties have a broad bipartisan consensus, and that consensus is by and large supported by the American people themselves. A politician trying to rebuild the relationship into what it was in 2010 would likely be doing so against public opinion. In other words, the die is cast. In whatever form it takes, the China-America conflict is happening and everyone will have to either choose a side or walk a dangerous tightrope of trying to appease both without triggering retaliation from the other.
Perhaps this explains Xi’s apparent obsession with ‘re-uniting’ Taiwan with mother China? Fortunately for all concerned, having seen the catastrophic mess that Putin has plunged Russia into, he won’t be keen to follow him down the rabbit hole. So it’s probably just a way of distracting the world and the Chinese people from their current economic woes?
The Ukraine mess is also a precedent for how officially unallied nations support each other with weaponry and tactical advice and can tilt the power equation in unforeseen ways.
One thread throughout ‘ Unherd’ are the endless displays of contributors utter ignorance of modern economic, investment and capital markets functions, and their relationship with savings/pensions and retail investment.. AND this relationship to the ownership of companies in the manufacturing sector, and the associated service industries.
see below?
Is it surprising that nu britn is in such an economic and fiscal mess if this medium and its ignorance, and lack of knowledge of matters economic and financial is an example?
It is matched only by the arrogance of the expressed ignorant opinions?!!