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Ian Gribbin
Ian Gribbin
2 months ago

Pay more for your fruit and stop letting 3rd world violence take root on our shores.
I blame the farmers…if you can’t make a profit without slave labour then shut up shop or grow something else.

The dependence on cheap labour and cheap imports is a disaster

Richard Parker
Richard Parker
2 months ago
Reply to  Ian Gribbin

I blame supermarkets. They drive the main downward pressure on produce prices and it’s they, not farmers, who trouser the profits.

I totally agree, however, that properly paid domestic labour and food self-sufficiency are things worth striving for, but the politicos don’t seem to grasp that. I’m sure their motives are pure, though.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Richard Parker

1) UK can not possible feed itself, so it is going to import food(s).
2) How much are you going to pay the British workers picking lettuce? And how much are the citizens going to pay at the (much maligned) Supermarket?
3) No, politicians do grasp those things. You (empty comments here) do not – but pretend that you do.

Last edited 2 months ago by Jeremy Smith
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

4.) re submerge the whole place under the sea and say sorry to Vermuyden.

Andrew D
Andrew D
2 months ago
Reply to  Richard Parker

I blame the public, who seek out those cheaper supermarkets which maintain the downward price pressure on the famers. So we’re back to where Ian started – pay more for your fruit and veg

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
2 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

I don’t blame anyone. However, we have to reconcile the urgent necessity of a substantial reduction in net immigration with the comparably exigent necessity of maintaining an adequate agricultural labour supply. This is probably best achieved by a combination of food price increases, higher wages, and budgeting for the appropriate number of agricultural workers as part of a legal immigration quota or guest worker program.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

You need to start blaming the knives, for heaven’s sake. That’s what the Americans do.

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
2 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Or Trump.

Mary Thomas
Mary Thomas
2 months ago

Or Boris. Or Brexit.

It couldn’t be elite policy makers or Tony Blair’s idiotic refusal to make immigration from poor Eastern countries to this country gradual, like the rest of Western Europe, could it, in those heady days of New Labour?

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
2 months ago

Or Bush.

Kat L
Kat L
2 months ago
Reply to  Betsy Arehart

bush was terrible and has blood on his hands for a 20 year quagmire that was only supposed to take 6 months to complete. he thinks zelensky is comparable to george washington-he’s a dolt.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Kat L

Biden and Pelosi make Bush look like Washington

Kat L
Kat L
1 month ago
Reply to  Roger Ledodger

i disagree; it makes them appear to be on the same team.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

It would be interesting, as Peter Hitchen’s often says, to discover any drug related habits of the murderer.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Automate

Samuel Gee
Samuel Gee
2 months ago
Reply to  Richard Parker

Neither the farmer or the supermarkets are to blame. They both have to make a profit in the prevailing market. This is a structural problem for the economy which involves lack of capital investment, badly designed benefits system, a freewheeling labour and housing market, an insanely relaxed policy toward incoming migration, consumer attitudes and much else.
It took a long time, many many bad policy decisions and a total lack of interest in long term consequences to get it this messed up. It will take a long time to fix and there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the process. But it needs to start.

Rob Jones
Rob Jones
1 month ago
Reply to  Richard Parker

I feel it’s a bit more complicated than that. Farmers, supermarkets, government… it’s always easy to blame someone else, but in truth it’s all of us, it’s capitalism. We all demand cheap goods and vast choice, where do we think is all comes from? When we voted for Brexit this is exactly what we voted for. This is the pain of transition, but if the Brexiteers are right an end to easy cheap labour will push up wages and prices, and ultimately encourage investment in automation. If they’re wrong… well, we’re a bit buggered!

Michael J
Michael J
2 months ago
Reply to  Ian Gribbin

Central government is obsessed with GDP and will happily overlook all the problems with immigration as long as the little line continues trundling upwards.

William Cameron
William Cameron
2 months ago
Reply to  Michael J

Which is why they should be measured on GDP per capita

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Ian Gribbin

The dependence on cheap labour and cheap imports is a disaster

How much are you going to pay British youth to pick lettuce?

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I don’t know. But unskilled British youth should be picking the lettuce in return for a fair day’s pay. The fact is that we have 5.4 million people of working age on various incapacity benefits or whatever. The vast majority of this is a scam, and these people need to be picking lettuce, cleaning the streets, working in care homes etc etc. Actually, most of the powerpoint classes should also be performing these roles as well.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

 5.4 million people of working age on various incapacity benefits or whatever. 

The party of “hard work” and “personal responsibility” is in power. They have 80 seat majority to make changes to the welfare state. So what is going on?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

‘Coronagate’ has destroyed us.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

Before C19?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Yes ‘Coronagate’ was the final straw!
Previously, Cameron & May a “complete waste of rations”.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Benefits and apathy.

Kevin Godwin
Kevin Godwin
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I believe that there are many in the current government that would like to introduce an element of compulsion on the fit, young unemployed to do the work that Fraser Bailey highlights. But one could almost predict the reaction from the main opposition party. It does appear that if someone has low aspirations in life it’s possible to ‘milk’ the system and live on benefits with little or no control or checks by the state.
My question to you Jeremy Smith is what would you and the Labour Party suggest to overcome this problem?

Last edited 2 months ago by Kevin Godwin
Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

The same thing that has gone on with Republicans in the USA. Hence the Far Right Trumpist backlash.

Last edited 2 months ago by Betsy Arehart
Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

The Left Whinge who control most of the ‘blob’ (Witness how long it took for the plebs to bring down the Tavistock!) would whinge non-stop and do everything in their power (rather like Brexit) to prevent that taking place.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Plus the 90K currently incarcerated. I’m sure they would love the ‘fresh air’.

Andrew D
Andrew D
2 months ago

Not to mention the several hundred fit young men arriving each day on dinghies. Surely they could be put to good use in the fields while their claims for ‘asylum’ are being processed?

John Solomon
John Solomon
2 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Plus forging the chains for them to wear would be a boost for light industry!!

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago
Reply to  John Solomon

But it is hard to forge steel with battery power.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

You can buy chains in China – for a short period of time.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

They have none, according to Evraz, their steel sales to China are falling because China is still locking down – it seems the CCP are determined to start another revolution.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Don’t need chains. Give them cheap mobile phones containing tracker apps, but also put an ankle bracelet on them. If they run, while they are working at dismantling the ankle tag, the phone could pinpoint them. 😉

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

The fact that the powers of specialist police units, Military intelligence and special forces, working under cover to find the lair of the trafficking gangs has NOT been deployed by HM Government just smells.

If the public knew how efficient the aforementioned were in years passim in the Northern Ireland conflict, and how similar tasks would be, and potentially succesful, there would be a public outrage.

David Bennet
David Bennet
2 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

They would probably be more than happy to. Unfortunately, they are not allowed to.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
2 months ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Excellent point on the PowerPoint classes.

Benjamin Jones
Benjamin Jones
2 months ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Personally I would make everyone who voted remain do a stint on a farm to teach them a lesson for being so lazy as to expect people to travel from the other side of Europe to do it for them.

Last edited 1 month ago by Benjamin Jones
Peter Lloyd
Peter Lloyd
1 month ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

There’s something to your “powerpoint classes” comment. More inequality equals the peccadilloes of the wealthy becoming more of an economic sector, basic necessities eroding. It’s a demand, as much as it is a supply, issue.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

As much as it takes. Learn to live without cheap servants to do your dirt for you.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

I have no servants at all.
anyone can say “as much as it takes” but again minimum wage?
Currently it is £1.4K a month. Are you going to increase it by 50%? 100%?

Last edited 2 months ago by Jeremy Smith
polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Yes you do – the cheap imported serfs who work for subsistence rates of pay to keep you in clover.

Last edited 2 months ago by polidori redux
Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

The irony is no Europhile in this country ever points out how the EU Agriculture often only survives on the back of this ‘slave class’ – in the Iberian Peninsula it is (or was as even Europe seems to have ‘lost’ masses of workers) increasingly African.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

IF we allowed cheap youth to abandon the insane education until you are 25 system. Many would start off picking fruit I suspect, then work their way up AND may even come up with better ways to pick the stuff. A science teacher, I spent ages baby sitting 14/15/16 year olds who wanted out of education and wanted to work. One particularly disruptive girl, on finally escaping at 16, was running an Airport shop at 18 and a series of small shops at 20. She has become a ‘model’ citizen. Time to clear out the education system and let those who need/want only to read, write and work out the days takings to get a Metriculation Certificate and leave at 15 if they desire and after achieving it. You would be surprised at what motivation that would bring to actually reading, writing and arithmetic!

Colin Elliott
Colin Elliott
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Two years ago, there was a plea for British fruit and vegetable pickers; my son applied, it was acknowledged as received, but there was no further interest.
As it happens, I’m familiar with the the farms around here; their ideal worker lives on the farm in residential caravans in a kind of commune in which communication is mostly in one language, currently mostly Romanian.
It’s good for the famer, because response to variations in crop and weather can instantly be responded to, while absenteeism is zero because they live in.
It’s good for the worker, because with few distractions, they can work hard, and eventually take home a good sum. Many have small children, so their families have education, and free health care, and will learn to speak good English..
I noticed that although the advertisement appeared to be for a farmer, the response was from an agent, and the main business of these agents is to sign up workers in, say, Romania, and then bring them here in the required numbers.
Despite Brexit, and despite Covid-19, I noticed that the farms seemed adequately manned.
This situation is dynamic, because it depends upon a wage rate differential, which is why jobs once filled by Poles are now taken by Romanians. Meanwhile, although many Poles have no doubt returned to an increasingly prosperous Poland, others have developed careers in farm management, or, along with wives perhaps, moved to non-agricultural careers.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Ian Gribbin

Farm subsidies need to be massively increased.
Currently on a 900 acre arable farm they amount to about a measly £90K. That is not enough.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

Exactly!
The problem with (most) of the people that comment here is that they prefer to b*tch instead of trying to learn something.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

No Jeremy, we have learnt a great deal. Notably your commitment to personal greed.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

personal greed.

not at all!

Peter B
Peter B
2 months ago

New Zealand completely abolished farm subsidies around 20 years ago. They still seem to be farming. And very successfully too.
Farm subsidies are a complete mess. Some sectors are subsidised, others are not. Why pay subsidies for cows and sheep but not pigs ?
Best to scrap the lot and have consumers pay a fair price for their food.
EU subsidies and the CAP have been a disaster:
1) They created massive over-production and dumping of excess on poorer countries – destroying their domestic agriculture
2) Meanwhile we paid over-inflated prices for food (the CAP fixed minimum prices)
3) As well as the subsidies
4) The subsidies created massive corruption and fraud with huge waste in fake claims.
There’s probably something I missed in their … but that’s certainly enough.
Without subsidies, the fraud would be eliminated.
If we think about this, the actual cost we pay for food is not simply what we pay in the supermarket. It is also the additional taxation to support the subsidies whihc people don’t see. Rather like the NHS, they think they are getting something at a lower price than they are actually paying.
Get rid of the subsidies and people will understand the real costs.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

You are completely missing the point. In many cases, subsidies are merely political paybacks to certain sectors. The common tax payer is being screwed at both ends by corruption at a massive scale, whilst we bicker with each other over trifling subjects.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

I completely agree but ever since the War farming’ has become totally dependent on subsidies, and it will take a miracle to break that ‘umbilical cord’.
Mind you, keeping four hunters ‘at livery’, three boys at Eton, a trophy wife, and a yacht on the Orwell doesn’t come cheap!

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Maybe we can then reduce taxes. The first quarter of my working day is spent working for the Government on my PAYE taxes. The rest of the day is working for me and Council Tax, Fuel Tax, VAT and potentially Capital gains or maybe even at some point, inheritance tax. (The last 2 risible taxes if ever there was. For Capital gains Central Bank and Treasury produce 10% annual inflation, my asset values ‘rise’ by say 10%, the buggers then charge me if I sell my assets and make ‘gains’! As for inheritance tax, they’ve already taxed me on the stuff about half-a-dozen ways, then they want to penalise me for trying to improve my family fortunes! A tax designed to break up the great estates now hits PAYE workers IF they own a house. Govt inflation & immigration policies have meant the value increases over a so slow moving threshold that owning a house is likely to catch you in it!) Oh for a conservative party that espoused the family as the core of a society. Even the Mafia have more respect for families!

Last edited 2 months ago by msinformationatthebbc
Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago

Why? If the 900 acre farm can’t function and make a profit, then we are presumably obtaining food from elsewhere that is cheaper. To claim that this is dangerous is to ignore history, we’ve been importing food into this country since the Tudors.

Wilfred Davis
Wilfred Davis
2 months ago
Reply to  Ian Gribbin

I have several times read in the news that British fruit-growers cannot get British workers to take the jobs, however hard they try.

And what is your evidence for calling the work ‘slave labour’?

vicomte de lomagne
vicomte de lomagne
2 months ago
Reply to  Wilfred Davis

50 years ago, when my family farmed in Lincs, it was the gypsies/tinkers who provided the casual labour lifting and riddling potatoes etc.As the youngest, I did my share of it too at half term.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago
Reply to  Wilfred Davis

Now we know why slavery might have been the solution for a few hundred years. Solved a lot of problems.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Slavery is much ‘over hyped’ and a very expensive system, which is why it was replaced by ‘hire & fire’.

Alphonse Pfarti
Alphonse Pfarti
2 months ago
Reply to  Wilfred Davis

And yet, pre EU expansion and no limits on unskilled/semi skilled labour rocking up, somebody harvested the UK’s produce. Pretty good summer job, if hard work. Some of my friends did it while at university or college – boys and girls. Good amount of boozing in the evenings, apparently.

Has our youth genuinely become that wet and useless in one generation?

Kevin Godwin
Kevin Godwin
2 months ago

Probably. Summer jobs picking fruit is beneath the self-important darlings studying useless subjects at mediocre Universities. Work ethic…

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago

How much tax do they pay on those earnings? Spending a quarter of your day working in the fields for HMRC wouldn’t tempt me.

Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
2 months ago
Reply to  Roger Ledodger

None. They are cash in hand.

Sam Brown
Sam Brown
2 months ago
Reply to  Wilfred Davis

Very simply we need to make it much harder to NOT work in this country.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Wilfred Davis

In Europe, the evidence was in the various reports of migrant labour exploitation in Spain and Portugal for a start. Unfortunately trying to find the links now in Euronews is hard work.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago
Reply to  Ian Gribbin

Blaming the farmers, seriously? Would you rather import 100% of your food and let the politicians turn all that land into settlement camps for more of the world’s needy?

Geoff Cooper
Geoff Cooper
2 months ago
Reply to  Ian Gribbin

Indeed. My late uncle was a farmer in East Anglia, he made a good living growing wheat and barley which he told me ‘I can grow all on my own with the right machinery’. He did not need to hire lots of cheap foreign labour and he kept working well into his eighties.

Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
2 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Cooper

That doesn’t work with fruit, vegetables and salad crops.

Adam McDermont
Adam McDermont
2 months ago

The British people never wanted mass immigration and yet we are demonized for having the temerity to suggest a reduction in the number of arrivals. I’d rather live in a ‘staid’ and ‘boring’ English town than experience the wonders of multicultural ‘enrichment.’

Between terror attacks, attempted terror attacks, demographic displacement on an unprecedented scale, rising crime, mass gang rape, and the horrid obtrusiveness of the cacophonous babble of every language except English heard on public transport, my people are in a situation nearly as dire as military defeat as far as I’m concerned.

I liked the historical anecdote in this piece.

https://theheritagesite.substack.com/

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Adam McDermont

All true, but you now have control now…so why doesn’t the current UK GOV control migration?

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Because people like you start to scream and shout about the cost of their dinner parties

Last edited 2 months ago by polidori redux
Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

No but OK
But people like you vote…right? 80 seat majority..so what is the GOV you elected doing?
It is weird that you blame people like “me” despite the fact that you elected “them”!

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

You don’t know how I vote do you? I have Bennite tendencies and would happily hang you by your own entrails.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

would happily hang you by your own entrails.

Because I disagree with you?

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

No. Because you are a punk.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

See my previous post as to why so many remainers are still in power.

Adam McDermont
Adam McDermont
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Because they do not want to. GDP is all. These people have no meaningful affinity with the British nation and live lives insulated from its adverse consequences.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Adam McDermont

You voted for them.
“Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me”

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Using your logic, it sounds like you would have blamed George Washington for slavery in the U.S.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

No, GW is one of my favorite presidents (T-Rex, Ike the other 2).
People vote, UK in 2022 is not USA in 1776.

Kat L
Kat L
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

writing as an outsider i observe that they have much the same problem with voting as we do here in the states; politicians tell us what they are going to do what we want them to do and when they get into office they disregard most of it. trump was the only one who actually attempted to change things but he didn’t do any mass firings of bureaucrats to enable him to actually accomplish the needed changes. i thought johnson would be the equivalent but he turned into harry markle instead; covid and his wife defeated him.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Kat L

Boris is a chamelon interested only in Boris. The thing is many of us knew that, and though he was a Europhile at heart, his interests lay in pleasing the UK majority, who were all Brexiteers. Unfortunately he was also hamstrung by the Remain Parliament who had tied his hands in the negotiations. We should have walked away with no deal. As for Covid, I suspect he, like many Governments in the West was told this virus probably escaped from a Wuhan lab AND no one knew whether it was a bio-weapon or one of the US funded ‘enhanced functionality’ experiments.
Sadly very few actually looked at the classic Petri-dish – the Diamond Princess and so failed to realise it wasn’t the new black death no matter what lab it got out of.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Not really, if you look at the alternatives, the fear of having them in power means that the many put up with what we have. One day, however, we may get so fed up with both we actually all decide to vote for The Reform Party and give them a chance. My only fear is they want PR, and I don’t. FPTP is wonderful because it means we can do what we did to Major’s Government, and maybe would have done to Blair’s had he not seen it coming and jumped ship so Brown calmed us down. Mind you the 2007 crash & Cameron made a lot of people worry, so supporting the Lib-Dems. The irony there is we got a taste of what PR would deliver, and all those Lib-Dem voters who actually got what they wanted (only voters to do so) ie their party held the balance of power, suddenly discovered that coalitions never deliver the things you voted for but only those acceptable to both sides. They then trashed the Lib-Dems next time around.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

It’s far too late and would in fact mean mass deportation on a scale not seen since WWII.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Because most of them were remainers who only got Brexit done in the most haphazard manner because they knew they’d join the 80 who got kicked out to produce that majority IF they didn’t.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Adam McDermont

But the fact is that they voted for it time after time because for at least 25 years, all the main parties have been committed to mass immigration.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

But people are never responsible for their vote.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Hardly surprising when they invariably vote X and get Y.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

British democracy for you.
People are sovereign (they are also responsible).

Selwyn Jones
Selwyn Jones
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Sophistry and debating points – your stock in trade – oh, laced with sneers, hallmark of the left. You know full well that, as with Brexit, all the parties are stitched up by the establishment on these issues, offering the voters a Hobson’s Choice. Hence the people are sovereign in name only and not at all responsible for the mess which the left – through the infiltration and distortion of institutional life – has deposited upon them. I can’t help suspecting therefore that it is the sneering which is closest to your heart, a visceral disdain for the British public which expresses itself in gleeful deceit – see “debating points and sophistry”; by rejoicing in your power to rile them and by actually contributing to the moral impoverishment of their society by supporting ugly, retrograde left policy.

Eryl Balazs
Eryl Balazs
2 months ago
Reply to  Selwyn Jones

what is your actual point or practical plan?

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Selwyn Jones

LOL
I didn’t know that I have that kind of power!
Sure, blame me.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

You voted didn’t you? So you should take some blame. 😉 PS IF you are a Labour Party supporter, you should take most of the blame. The only reason the non-conservative Tories get in is because the Labour party are f’ing useless, summed up by the fact they can’t define a woman.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Sadly, as you well know, thanks to the most deplorable state education system in the ‘known world’, very few of the great British demos can even spell sovereign, let alone comprehend it.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

Oh I know that, but with universal suffrage what can we do?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Bring in some sort of property qualification.
Everyone has ONE vote, but if say you own a 900 acre farm then that get another 10 votes. Equitable really.
In the early days of the Roman Republic you weren’t even allowed to join the army unless you owned some property. The logic being ‘ why on earth would you fight if you had nothing to defend’?

Last edited 2 months ago by stanhopecharles344
Alphonse Pfarti
Alphonse Pfarti
2 months ago

An idea which I believe has merit is that you can either vote in whatever national or local elections/referenda take place in a given year or as many reality TV shows as you wish. You must state your preference each year, but can make your mind up again the following year. This offers a genuine choice.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago

We already have a def-facto qualification. Anyone who votes Labour gets nothing. Though unfortunately, we haven’t a conservative party yet to ensure anyone who votes Tory also gets nothing.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

bring back Grammar schools 😉

Rebecca Bartleet
Rebecca Bartleet
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

What other party would you vote for to reduce immigration?
Perhaps somewhat counterintuitively the most recent immigrants don’t really like the newer immigrants much either, it’s not limited to white Brits by any means, so perhaps Labour are missing a trick here.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

UKIP/Reform
If people believe in what you believe than they should easily win.
Personally I prefer the Continental populist parties partly because they are more competent but more importantly they are Intellectually Honest – something UKIP under Farage never was.

Wilfred Davis
Wilfred Davis
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

You suggest voting UKIP/Reform to reduce immigration.

Reminder of results of Westminster elections of May 2015:

SNP, votes 1,454,000, MPs: 56

UKIP, votes 3,881,000, MPs: 1.

So voting (say) UKIP helps the electorate how, exactly?

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Wilfred Davis

If more people vote UKIP/Reform it should win. If they don’t…why complain about the main parties?!

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I agree with your first point, but don’t see how it affects your second. I see no reason why I can’t even complain about the party I do vote for, Reform or not. IF one has to agree with every line in a manifesto there would be 70 million parties.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Why ‘intellectually’? Honesty doesn’t need a qualification as far as I’m concerned.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
2 months ago

Labour will always want, and enable, unlimited immigration.

Marie Jones
Marie Jones
2 months ago

SDP.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

LOL – have you ever read a manifesto? You vote on the most drastic promises, usually in order to avoid them.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Our system of so called Parliamentary democracy is a farce, and a 17th century anachronism.
The election of a tiny oligarchy on the ‘lustrum’ principal in the 21st century is no way forward, and we should look to Switzerland for inspiration. It maybe ‘boring’ but you can’t have everything.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

You are not Switzerland.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I do have a ‘hut’ there.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

Lucky man.
God’s antechamber to heaven as Buckley used to say.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Indeed, but even here in ‘paradise’ the Police habitually carry guns, which is completely unnecessary.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 months ago

all one needs to know about Switzerland is that no one knows nor cares who is PM.. and, that works?!

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

So what? We are Sovereign, we could have whatever electoral system we want. Come Dancing etc seems to be able to conduct a nationwide poll weekly 😉

Adam McDermont
Adam McDermont
2 months ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Yes but the alternatives to the two main parties have been electorally unviable. And several governments’ have been elected on a promise of reducing immigration. They have just ignored the popular will. The main parties are heavily financed and any new party starts at an immense deficit.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Adam McDermont

have been electorally unviable.

Because people don’t vote for them.

Wilfred Davis
Wilfred Davis
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

have been electorally unviable.

Because people don’t vote for them.

Again – results of Westminster elections of May 2015: UKIP, votes 3,881,000, MPs: 1.
People do vote for them, but …

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Wilfred Davis

People do vote for them, but …

Not enough.
If I apply your math (PR) how many more seats should LibDems have?
Correct me if I am wrong but historically LD would be the most beneficiary of PR system?

Kiat Huang
Kiat Huang
2 months ago
Reply to  Adam McDermont

Adam, there are “staid and boring” English towns that are free from the failures of rampant multi-ethnicism (the woke like to call it multicultural, but they really don’t mean the differing cultures of Dundee, Cornwall, Anglesea and Kent – they mean a person’s colour or exotic ethnicity, originating from outside the UK). Curiously quite a few of these towns are in Lincolnshire! I noticed from Wikipedia today that Lincolnshire is 98.5% white, which is extraordinary, but there are a lot of people moving here from all parts of the UK, partly because there is still a pervasive sense of Englishness and predominant English culture and activities.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 months ago
Reply to  Adam McDermont

Spot on! Not once in the past 70 odd years were ‘we’ ever asked “Do you want mass immigration, multiculturalism, and the destruction of your wonderful civilisation “?
It has been diktat from Quislingron/Westminster for eons; Time for a change before Armageddon is upon us.

Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
2 months ago

And yet there are five million people in Britain, including many in Lincolnshire and adjacent counties, living on benefits. There wouldn’t be a need for foreign workers if there was a proper clampdown on benefits as a lifestyle choice, together with a more flexible system that allowed for casual work.
I grew up in vegetable country. Gangs of women went picking in the fields. The farmers picked them up in lorries from council estates in small towns. Tough, tanned hard-working women in woollen headscarves and sacking pinafores, ironically like peasants from the Steppes. Now their granddaughters, on the same estates, can barely waddle to the school to take their children for their free breakfast.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

I take your word on it.
But the party of “hard work” and “personal responsibility” is in power with 80 seat majority. So it can crack down on those Welfare Queens.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

and the Blob would be up in arms and they kept the Tavistock going for years despite the child abuse! It’s a long road, things like this gradually eat away at the foundations, and parties commit suicide. Curiously they also resuscitate each other. I wait with interest to see if Boris & his Covid debacle has resuscitated Labour in the former Red Wall.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago

Sure seems like a case for the return of slavery.

Kiat Huang
Kiat Huang
2 months ago

The Netherlands and France both have proud and successful agricultural traditions, they are both in the Schengen zone, yet they don’t have the extreme concentration of problems that we see in Boston. Drive through the place and you will see it has become unlike any town in Lincolnshire.
I suspect it is that we have Europe’s most competitive and over-crowded supermarket environment with a race to the bottom for prices that impacts farmers and what they can afford to pay. Make no mistake, the supermarkets by and large dictate the prices the farmers get paid. Does that happen in any other business area that our daily lives depend on?
It could be that the early and growing Public appetite for centralising our food distribution to supermarkets, is the cause. It has certainly put paid to greengrocers (in Britain) and proper farmers markets (that you see on the continent). Effectively it was the vanguard for the growth of national chains that sucked the profits out of towns by killing off the majority of independent, locally owned businesses. Who were the people who built our market towns, the houses, the squares and municipal buildings – way before Councils as we know them even existed – but the independent shopkeepers, traders, farmers and merchants in and around them.
What has happened to Boston is extreme, but it is emblematic of what has and will become of English towns, lest they have a very well-to-do local population that can afford to pay more for their goods.

Eryl Balazs
Eryl Balazs
2 months ago
Reply to  Kiat Huang

Now we are hearing sensible debate- lets look at our addiction to supermarkets
However I would also agree with the view expressed here that it has always been a harsh job; born in Lincolnshire – I managed to avoid the land jobs in my youth, instead doing the catering and cleaning stuff. My bro on his first day picking caulis in Boston fields got taken to the middle of the field by a group of hard women, stripped of his clothes and left there as part of his induction!

Last edited 2 months ago by erylbalazs
Malcolm Webb
Malcolm Webb
2 months ago
Reply to  Kiat Huang

You are joking aren’t you? Dutch farmers are in open conflict with the Government and as for France, powerful Chambers of Commerce restrain competition in town centres whilst the huge supermarket chains dominate from their sites on the periferique – where the signs of social distress and racial tension are all too apparent. Heavily subsidised rural France might seem idyllic to the tourist but the underlying national reality is much less so. The electoral advance of first Macron and then Le Penn is surely a clear sign that all is not well in La Belle France. Britain certainly has its problems but France has more.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Malcolm Webb

Too many people still think the riots at the Champions League Final in Paris where the result of the two sets of fans, rather than both being set upon by the lawless inhabitants of the Banlieus.

Bill Hayden
Bill Hayden
2 months ago
Reply to  Kiat Huang

While it is different locally, it is the same in America. The almighty dollar rules. Publicly owned corporations are destroying small private owned businesses. At the same time government and corporations collaborate out of their own self interest, to dictate what they deem to be best for “the little people”, which they don’t give a damn about. Problem: the large majority of people getting screwed have more in common than divides them, if only they can focus on that and unite politically, and recognize that the people in power (both government & corporate) are playing them like a fiddle to keep them divided to maintain their grip on centralized power. Solution: the majority needs to identify those things they have in common that unify them and fight as if their lives depend on it to take back control of their own government. Sounds familiar? MEGA, like MAGA, only Boston style! Stop complaining, and start playing offense, it is the only way to win. And keep the faith, the true source of freedom without fear. Do it for all those innocent kids, and for all those who gave their lives for the opportunity you have today. It is why we are here.

Peter B
Peter B
2 months ago

” In 2016, Boston delivered a 75% pro-Brexit vote, earning it opprobrium as ”Britain’s most Eurosceptic town”. “
Not from me. Well done Boston. And Sunderland. And all the other forgotten places who had refused to forget that they had once been successful and not lost their pride and a dream that they might yet be successful again. Never forget the shameful Mathew Parris article in The Times in which he wrote off the Clacton’s of this country.

Maureen Finucane
Maureen Finucane
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

But he doesn’t live in those places does he?

Benjamin Jones
Benjamin Jones
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Parrish must have taken his cue from the Unherd comments section, Jeremy Smith is usually slagging off the voters of Skegness and Blackpool.

Gavin Thomas
Gavin Thomas
2 months ago

There’s more to this than what’s being reported.
The alleged killer and parents of the girl are Lithuanian. This must be more than a coincidence and is the “Elephant in the Room”.
It’s not only Boston which suffers from immigrant crime. You only need to look at the nationality (and ethnicity) of those in UK jails – the Poles are there in the largest numbers, followed by all other Eastern European countries.
The UK is seen as ‘soft on crime’ and over 90% of all violent street crime is committed by immigrant minorities.
David Blunkett lost his job as Home Secretary in 2004 when he disclosed these figures.

Mike Stallard
Mike Stallard
2 months ago
Reply to  Gavin Thomas

Immigrants are a broad category. Most (not all) of the Poles I know (well) are exemplary Catholics and lovely with it. Lithuanians (at the gym) are big, friendly and polite. Russians are either lovely, witty and clever or Mr Putin imitators. Roma, sorry. I have never met a nice one yet, but I am waiting. As a group, Eastern Europeans surprise me with their decency and courage. But they do drink a lot and, yes, they can be very very violent with it.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Mike Stallard

I’d still like to know if the culprit has any history of drug use.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
2 months ago

“In 2016, Boston delivered a 75% pro-Brexit vote, earning it opprobrium as ”Britain’s most Eurosceptic town”.”
*In 2016, Boston delivered a 75% pro-Brexit vote, earning it respect as ”Britain’s most Eurosceptic town”.

Victoria Cooper
Victoria Cooper
2 months ago

The most racist town/county has the most immigrants. Can no one join up the dots?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 months ago

define racism please?

Victoria Cooper
Victoria Cooper
2 months ago

That’s a good one and I wish more people thought it through. In this context I was referring to it as noted in the article. Google says prejudiced or antagonistic towards people on account of their colour or whatever. Believing you are superior to another on the same basis. Personally I think it is perfectly natural to be loyal to your own race. Though it is evident that the more they interbreed the less that is possible. Secondly I would judge people more by their actions than their nationality, i.e. is my/the community’s life enhanced or worsened by what they bring to the table. Thirdly the table is already full.

Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
2 months ago

It isn’t just Boston. A few days ago a teenage boy was stabbed and killed in Somerset by another boy. A while ago there was a documentary about another boy who had been stabbed. He had been lured to his death by two girls and killed by another boy because of a dispute on a social media platform. His school friends were interviewed and they all seemed obsessed with knives. I use Instagram only to look at photos posted by a friend and recently I get feeds about knives which I reported. Isn’t it any surprise when violence is an accepted part of entertainment and video games.

Mike Stallard
Mike Stallard
2 months ago

I live in Wisbech and we have had the same experience. I did teaching English in the local centre until a Russian manager made life there impossible. We, too, have had the same experience as Boston and now different people are coming in – including a lot of Roma.

Last edited 2 months ago by Mike Stallard
Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Mike Stallard

Wisbech? I used to deliver labels there as a Student (overnight express to the fruit factories). Living in Liverpool I thought Wisbech a wonderfully quiet backwater in those days!

Tom Scott
Tom Scott
2 months ago

Lots of blame flying around here.

My (all too frequent) response to stories like this is ‘thanks again Tony’

Last edited 2 months ago by Tom Scott
sharon jacklin
sharon jacklin
2 months ago

It does anoy me when people say British people don’t want to work the fields in Boston. They don’t seem to have the complete facts.
My son applied for a job to work, picking vegetables on the fields. In his interview he was asked “Do you speak Polish or Lithuanian?”. He replied that he dosent and they then said they couldn’t employ him as he is the minority.
I was furious at the time as many people state the British youth are lazy and don’t want to work the land. This is not entirely true, they are just not able to work the land as told they are the minority and don’t speak Lithuanian or Polish.
What are they to do?

Joyce Brette
Joyce Brette
1 month ago
Reply to  sharon jacklin

Absolutely shocking, if a black person applied and were told the same thing could you imagine the outcry ?

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago

It is abundantly clear that it is high time for “knife control” legislation in Boston! If it weren’t for those horrible knives, think of the children that could be saved.
And those racist and hate-filled locals need to embrace their new neighbors. But make damn sure those new neighbors don’t wind up in my village!

Douglas H
Douglas H
2 months ago

Did the author visit Boston and talk to local people? It doesn’t read like he did; it looks more like an armchair Wikipedia job with lots of declarations and not much evidence.

v easter
v easter
2 months ago
Reply to  Douglas H

Perhaps you should read it again.
 I grew up near Boston and nothing in this essay seems false to me. But I’m surprised Derek Turner did not mention that exploitation of agricultural labourers has a long history in this area. I remember an old man telling me of his despair aged 13 of being set to hoe in a field from 6 in the morning until late in the day. And of his pride that in later life he had never been reduced, however desperate his circumstances, to working for a gang master. Gang masters were still much feared in the early 20th century and returned courtesy of the EU from 2001. Mass immigration hasn’t done Boston many favours.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  v easter

courtesy of the EU

UK governs its affairs – why didn’t UK GOV crack down on Gang Masters?

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I bet you think HMG invented the concept of the Privatisation of State Monopolies rather than following (sadly far more conscientiously than our fellow EU members) EU directives on Competition?

Derek Turner
Derek Turner
2 months ago
Reply to  v easter

Hello, “V”, and thank you. I do know Boston very well, and try to talk to lots of people whenever there, of differing perspectives. (I was there just a few hours before that poor little girl was killed.) I’m afraid editorial constraints don’t always allow for properly detailed or nuanced discussions! I’d certainly agree that the lives of farm-workers have always been hellish, and exploitation is unfortunately omnipresent in human history, long predating postwar immigration – although that injection of cheaper, easy-to-find labour had the unfortunate effect of deferring a socioeconomic reckoning with exploiters

Peter B
Peter B
2 months ago
Reply to  Derek Turner

Derek, good article here and you’ve generated a lot of good debate. Could you do another article on agricultural exploitation ? Or can I find this in your books ?

Derek Turner
Derek Turner
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Thanks, Peter; much appreciated. I do touch on Lincs. agricultural history in my book, but not in as much detail as it deserves. The book is about all aspects of this fantastic and varied county, from prehistory to the present, poets to puritans, and Brexit to zoology. I may well try and do something specific. Thanks for the idea

Derek Turner
Derek Turner
2 months ago
Reply to  Douglas H

Hello, Douglas. Thanks for taking an interest. I actually know Boston very well (by sad coincidence, I was there on the day that sweet child was stabbed), and whenever there strive to keep my eyes open and talk to people of varying perspectives. I try to be careful with facts and stats, even if they aren’t always mentioned, or linked to, within the text. But I also try not to get offended when people don’t approve of what I’ve written! Best wishes, Derek

Adam Young
Adam Young
2 months ago

Always a pleasure to read Derek’s work. Sea Changes is a great novel.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
2 months ago

Henry James doesn’t really bring out this side of Boston.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I seem to remember Mrs Birdseed being quite vicious. Perhaps I am confusing her with the Boston Strangler.

Keith Dudleston
Keith Dudleston
2 months ago

To my mind, the “market” should eventually solve the agricultural labour shortage issue, just as it resolves the issue of the right level of pay for office workers who work from “home” (remember “home” might be in a foreign country). Looks like pay for agricultural workers will have to rise significantly while home workers’ pay is likely to stabilise or fall. A big change in the work economy is coming. There is hope for places like Boston.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
2 months ago

The exodus of Europeans has caused short-term “critical” labour shortages, in farms and haulage firms, care homes and caravan parks, with crops sometimes left to rot and lorry-loads of goods left undelivered.”

And wages and provision for workers welfare increased substantially. But you failed to mention the economic quid pro quo in your incessantly doom laden article. Seems like rather cynical and desperate bottom-scraping journalistic opportunism – “I know, something topical, let’s do an article about the nihilism of Boston and link it somehow to the wee girl that got murdered.”

I expect better from Unherd.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago

Eastern Europeans are being replaced by workers from even further east and south, which may result in even less tractable problems. 

And that is why many people vote Leave.
Fewer Poles more 3rd Worlders.

polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

“And that is why many people vote Leave.”
Not me. And nobody that I know.
You just make stuff up, Jeremy.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

I said “many”, I didn’t say all.
Why did you vote Leave?
And what do you want the gov that you elected to do about migration?
P.S. It is sarcastic -you do understand that?

Last edited 2 months ago by Jeremy Smith
polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I see no sarcasm, just a display of political illiteracy.
Why did I vote Leave? I refer you to the case made by Tony Benn. Benn was right.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Excellent – now you got the GOV you deserve.
Fix the problem.

Last edited 2 months ago by Jeremy Smith
polidori redux
polidori redux
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Punk

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

LOL – no, we didn’t get the Government we deserve, we never do. We got the least worst alternative as we usually do.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
2 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Same reason that I voted leave.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

We should have voted for the Brexit Party. Had all Brexiteers voted for the Brexit Party we would have removed 410 sitting MPs no matter what Remain did, voted tactically etc, they could still not have stopped 410 leave seats. That would have meant 410 remainers who have obstructed the popular vote since 2016. In the end we only removed 80, and so the remainers remain in parliament and continue to screw us up.
As an aside, I’m amazed Reform don’t point out that IF all Brexiteers voted for them, they’d do the same, they’d return approximately 410 MPs and have the largest landslide in close on a century. Sadly they’d then ruin it all by opting for PR and we’d not be able to kick MPs out in the numbers we’d like when we like.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 months ago

In my 30+ years living near Newmarket, it was Always said a Fenland wedding and christening is the world’s smallest party as the grandmother, Aunt and wife are all the same person.

A most bizarre, odd, eery and wholly unattractive part of England.

Victoria Cooper
Victoria Cooper
2 months ago

It’s not a secret that parts of Britain experienced in breeding. Quite a while back though. And I agree, parts of East Anglia boast a not altogether comfortable landscape.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago

and yet no Fenland native was either victim or perpetrator. Does no one wonder why a 22 year old male stabs a 9 year old girl? Does anyone know why? Perhaps a reason will become known and we can then decide how that is determined by our politics. Maybe it has nothing to do with immigration other than both were immigrants. It may well be related to drugs, drink, sexual deviation or mental health. Then the focus of the discussion will no doubt change, but I find it hard, whatever happens, to see how Fenland native breeding practices have any bearing on it.

Victoria Cooper
Victoria Cooper
2 months ago
Reply to  Roger Ledodger

You make a fair and reasonable point. However the article makes clear there is unrest in Boston due to the large percentage of immigrants. What you must ask yourself is was knife crime a feature of Boston life before mass immigration? However I will concede the remoter parts of East Anglia have historically had large numbers of mental health problems that have not been adequately addressed by the Government.

Matty D
Matty D
2 months ago

Boston, with its rotting vegetables and unstaffed care homes is reaping what it sowed. Take Back Control? Yon won it. Now own it.

Roger Ledodger
Roger Ledodger
2 months ago
Reply to  Matty D

LOL – and your preferred Government would have done better? As I said earlier, we never get the Government we deserve, we just get the least worst, fortunately we haven’t got the Government you would espouse, as it would be even worse.