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Peta Seel
Peta Seel
1 year ago

What a depressing read. It is so hard to see an end to this and even harder to see any form of reconciliation between the Russians and the Ukrainians. Memories will be very long indeed.

Wim de Vriend
Wim de Vriend
1 year ago
Reply to  Peta Seel

Long enough to remember when Stalin deliberately murdered and starved millions of Ukrainians, back in the 1930s.

Amos Sullivan
Amos Sullivan
1 year ago
Reply to  Peta Seel

Had Zelensky honored the Minsk Accords he signed and not taken Biden’s advice he might have saved Ukraine.

Ukunda Vill
Ukunda Vill
1 year ago
Reply to  Amos Sullivan

Yeah but then how would the comedian have stashed $1.3 billion into his offshore accounts (according to the Pandora papers disclosure).

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago

Good.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

This helps explain why the Ukrainians are closing in on Kherson, even though they lack heavy weapons.
As in WW2, the more unrest behind the lines, the fewer soldiers at the front. Note as well that the bad old “Nazis” don’t have unrest in their rear. A Great Mystery that…
The Russian Army has a unique facility to ingratiate itself with everyone.
Ask the women of Berlin in 1945.

Ukunda Vill
Ukunda Vill
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

I believe you mean every nazi Ukrainian.

Colin Elliott
Colin Elliott
1 year ago

In Chechnya, the ‘security forces’ engage in many secret activities illegal even in Russian law; adbductions, torture, disappearances. They have ways of making corpses disappear to avoid any possibility of subsequent investigation at any time in the future. When Bucha was reoccupied, I was reminded of this, because I realised that sooner or later, far worse will happen, perhaps over a large area of Ukraine, and the world will know nothing.

Nikki Hayes
Nikki Hayes
1 year ago

The talk of collaborators makes me think of the second world war and nazi Germany. It was obvious when Russia took the first areas that they were being helped by these scum. Russia clearly expected to be welcomed, especially in the Donbas, I think they have had a rude awakening that people do not want their rule. The number of war crimes being committed is beyond counting – I weep for the poor people of Ukraine and admire their bravery and determination in fighting the more powerful aggressor. Saw Ben Wallace on tv today visiting British and Ukranian troops here in the UK who are training together – one of the officers said most of these people have no military experience but they have such a will to fight for their country and we will give them the tools to do it. Those who think Ukraine should make peace with Russia should think twice – Putin has made it clear that he would like to regain territory that belonged to the USSR – one incursion into a NATO country such as Poland or Belarus and NATO, and by definition the West, are at war.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
1 year ago
Reply to  Nikki Hayes

Umm, Belarus isn’t in NATO; just about the only state in Eastern Europe that isn’t, though.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
1 year ago

What is a ‘pro democracy activist’ in this context?

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Anna Bramwell

Someone who’s fighting for Ukrainian independence and freedom from the slavery of Russian occupation. It’s obviously about independence, not democracy.

Martin Spartfarkin
Martin Spartfarkin
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

Ukraine is a democracy, Russia isn’t. The Donbas puppet statelets even less so. Even if Ukraine wasn’t a democracy, independence would be a legitimate goal, but actually people are fighting for both.

Last edited 1 year ago by Martin Spartfarkin
Neven Curlin
Neven Curlin
1 year ago

Is anybody noticing that this entire article is based on hearsay and anecdotes? It doesn’t amaze me anymore, because every article is like this, but still…

David Patrikarakos, activist-journalist on the Farewell-Ukraine-tour, still winning the information war.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Neven Curlin

Three officials in Kherson have been either killed or wounded in attacks by Ukrainian supporters.
That’s not hearsay.
(Oh, and I’m very glad to see my prediction at the beginning of the war that most of the Russian armour brought into Ukraine would never return to Russia has come true.
Putin certainly is sending more in–that are 50 and 60 years old.)

Last edited 1 year ago by martin logan
Colin Elliott
Colin Elliott
1 year ago
Reply to  Neven Curlin

If it were not so, then the occupiers would succeed in keeping the world in ignorance as to what’s going on.
I guess that when the British public were informed of conditions in, say, France during 1942, they could learn overtly from the German government, or from hearsay and anecdotes.

ML Manville
ML Manville
1 year ago
Reply to  Neven Curlin

You are expecting resistance fighters to go on the record? To supply their real names?! And when a foreign journalist walks up to them on the street and asks “have you personally killed Russian soldiers?” they will freely talk about it with a stranger?
Or do you expect the reporter to only report on assassinations, etc, that he personally witnesses?
And regarding the “only anecdotes” bit, what do you want, official statistics? Did you miss the part, for example, where it says regarding kids stabbing drunk soldiers, “No one says anything because it’s bad both for the Russians and for the kids.” Also, it’s pretty standard for wider press journalism to present “anecdotes” anyway …
If none of that is what you mean, please explain EXACTLY what it is that you wanted to see here, in precise terms? Serious question, I’m trying to imagine what could possibly satisfy you.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  ML Manville

You live in a weird world. We don’t even know what happened in Northern Ireland because no one is prepared to tell us.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  Neven Curlin

The gas chambers were hearsay too for a while. Nobody could believe the stories that came back from occupied Europe – not even the Jews living there.

Last edited 1 year ago by Ian Stewart
Nigel Watson
Nigel Watson
1 year ago

Fancy a nuclear war with Russia?
PLAY STUPID GAMES, WIN STUPID PRIZES
FANCY A NUCLEAR WAR WITH RUSSIA? – YouTube

Ukunda Vill
Ukunda Vill
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Watson

Check the US report titled “Unbalancing and Overexending Russia 2019”. Its the playbook of US meddling on the border of Russia. A bit like Pelosi provocative visit to Taiwan, to stir up the hornet’s nest.

Lisa I
Lisa I
1 year ago

As brave as those resisting are, I winced while reading because every Russian death is going to be taken out tenfold on the civilian population.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lisa I
Lisa I
Lisa I
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa I

Very true but I fear they will get even worse. It’s a terrible situation.

Ukunda Vill
Ukunda Vill
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa I

USA is driving the Ukrainian scam. Check out the US report titled “Unbalancing and Overexending Russia 2019”.

M. Gatt
M. Gatt
1 year ago

Pro-democracy? In Ukraine? That ship sailed when Lewinsky was elected. Please stop the bollocks.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  M. Gatt

Er, “Zelensky…”

Micael Gustavsson
Micael Gustavsson
1 year ago
Reply to  M. Gatt

In what way was the election of (I guess you mean) Zelensky antithetical to democracy?

Allan F
Allan F
1 year ago
Reply to  M. Gatt

Try Tchaikovsky. It’s funnier. And also bollocks.

Amos Sullivan
Amos Sullivan
1 year ago
Reply to  M. Gatt

Zelensky is a puppet to the EU globalists.

Andy E
Andy E
1 year ago

Those so-called collaborators are civilains, in many cases. Like those two women who were working for Russian passport centers, processing tens of thousands requests for the passports. Car bombing those civilians with their families and kids can be called “resistance”, but it is also known as plain old terrorism. The “23 Russian passports” story is true, but for the very first day of that process. It is claimed that more than 100 thou are applied and waiting for the approvals.
If you need more and better stories about rapes and atocities :- google ombudswoman Denisova stories. She was good at that. Too bad she was caught lying and it was too much even for Zelenski.

Antony Hirst
Antony Hirst
1 year ago

So the beatings will continue until the pro-democracy movement succeeds. Didn’t the region vote to become independent from Ukrain in 2014, or am I misinformed?

Micael Gustavsson
Micael Gustavsson
1 year ago
Reply to  Antony Hirst

What? He is writing about Kherson. There certainly Was no referendum in Kherson, which have been in Ukrainian hands until this year. There where referendums in Crimea and in the two so called peoples republics in the east on the border of Russia, although there is doubt about how real those were.

Antony Hirst
Antony Hirst
1 year ago

Ah, so the beatings militia would not operate in Crimea or Donbas if they had the chance then? Democratically respecting the referendum that you so glibly try to dismiss.

Last edited 1 year ago by Antony Hirst
martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Antony Hirst

Sorry, you are completely delusional about “referendums.” There was never one in Kherson for the simple fact that the separatists were 100s of Kms away.
Even the one in Crimea was held after only 3 weeks of Russian occupation.
And nobody could run who wasn’t for Russia.
IOW, “Russian Democracy.”

Last edited 1 year ago by martin logan
Francisco Javier Bernal
Francisco Javier Bernal
1 year ago

Is this the kind of people we are supporting? Calling people Orcs?

For those not familiar with the term, this is what Banderites called Russians (and Slavs in general).

In one of the first published mentions, in the Extrême-Orient journal, in 1939, the Ukrainian “nationalists” of Stepan Bandera contemplated leaving the territory of present-day Ukraine to found an independent Ukrainian state under the protection of the Nazis in Primorsky Krai (Manchuria), where a large Ukrainian minority had already settled.

These Ukrainian “nationalists” never sought to defend their territory, but indeed their “race”. They claim to be of Scandinavian origin, descendants of the Varangians and above all not Slavic.

Last edited 1 year ago by Francisco Javier Bernal
David Yetter
David Yetter
1 year ago

You object to calling Russian soldiers “orcs”. Do you object as much to the orcish behavior of the Russian soldiers? (See the article above, the well-documented atrocities at Bucha, and the evidently deliberate targetting of missile attacks on targets like theaters, shopping centers and blocks of flats — the Russians insist they are using precision-guided munitions, so on their own claim, those are not accidental collateral damage from attacks on legitimate military targets). If Russian soldiers don’t want to be called “orcs”, they should stop shelling civilian targets and committing atrocities.

Last edited 1 year ago by David Yetter
martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Indeed.
But calling every Ukrainian a “Nazi”–the worst criminals in history– is perfectly fine.
They also speak a Slavic language, so rather strange claim.
They certainly are descended from Scandinavians–in the same sense that Britons are. Scandinavians settled both countries.

Ukunda Vill
Ukunda Vill
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

The Ukrainian army is heavily nazi. The civilians are probably not.

BJ Kauppi
BJ Kauppi
1 year ago

“Be nice to your rapist and murderer”, you say, “so you don’t upset and bother me with it.” Call it enabling or aiding and abetting, if you will, in any case it’s simply callous and cowardly.
1939, interesting year. Just a few short years after the Holodomor, the year of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, the expansion of ongoing wars (eg Russia-Japan, Sino-Japan) to a massive world war, vicious Soviet expansion (Baltics, Poland, Finland), etc. Ukrainians were utterly brutalized under the iron fist of Soviet Moscow, and they were being sent off to die in despotic Stalin’s narcissistic, predatory wars. That oppressed country and people, as others, have desperately been struggling to extricate themselves from the power and control of their narcissistic sociopath led neighbor for nearly a century now.

Lance Stewart
Lance Stewart
1 year ago

I’m sorry to have to say this but I only read a small portion of the article, and just stopped. Why? Because I have had enough of the same one-sided propaganda – here in the UK, 100% with RT banned. Fortunately I learned years ago when we were blasting Syria not to trust.our govt or the media and sought out multiple sources to get to the truth Now I’ve done the same over Ukraine, including the background going back to 2014, and even further to 1990 and the West’s constant lies about Russia, all of which led to that country’s patience snapping and intervening in the Donbas to end the solid 8 years of Ukrainian Army shelling of civilians, still going on. The conduct of the UK and US govts is frankly appalling, with its distorted reporting and many, many outright falsehoods.

Roger Inkpen
Roger Inkpen
1 year ago
Reply to  Lance Stewart

You poor thing. Yes, Unherd should give a trigger warning to such articles. If you want more upbeat reporting RT, despite your claims, is still 100% available via its website.

Andre Friedli
Andre Friedli
1 year ago

Oh, great – pro-democracy vigilantes. You couldn’t make this sh%t up! And how do you distinguish between collaborators and ethnic Russian civilians, many of whom may feel that the Russian occupiers are protectors, rather than invaders? Are all 11 million or so going to be strung up from lampposts or receive a bullet in the back of the head? I guess that would certainly be the permanent solution to any potential loyalty problems.

David Nebeský
David Nebeský
1 year ago
Reply to  Andre Friedli

Russian “protectors”? Protectors from what or who? And protecting by killing, raping a looting? Are you serious?

Francisco Javier Bernal
Francisco Javier Bernal
1 year ago
Reply to  David Nebeský

If Ukraine had treated its subjects equally, we would not be where we are. The problem is that part of the ruling elite, never mind the puppet figurehead, are Banderistas and Neo-Nazis who pass article 9 of the Ukrainian constitution up their arse. That is when they are not burning synagogues.
In July of last year, instead of fighting covid, they dedicated themselves to passing a bill on “indigenous peoples”, which denies this status to the Russians. According to it, the indigenous peoples of Ukraine are the Crimean Tatars, the Karaim and the Krymchaks but not the Russians. Only the so-called indigenous peoples are protected against actions aimed at the elimination of their entity, destruction of cultural values, “deportation or forced displacement of the place of compact residence in any form”, “forced assimilation or forced integration in any form or “the incitement to racial, ethnic or religious hatred against them.
If one does not know how to read between the lines, it is because he does not want to.

So, yes, they probably see them as protectors. Russians are not the ones that have been indiscriminately bombing civilians for 8 years.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago

Both sides were “indiscriminately bombing civilians for 8 years.”

Eray Basar
Eray Basar
1 year ago

I’m so fed up with this arguments. Russia mingled in affairs if a sovereign country that wanted to emancipate. Russia’s answer was the annexation of the crim. You take away a chunk of land from a sovereign country and then wonder why nationalism is on the rise? You starting a war and wonder why more and more people turn against you? Leaving you with the only way they know to suppress this: violence. Bravo!

This brings me back to what started all of this to begin with. A majority in a country that does not want to go the Russian way. And who would be surprised? Russia, with such an amount of natural wealth and resources, is stagnating for almost a decade, and exploiting that wealth only among the elites and the very few. The Russian government that has effectively established organization pattern only comparable to the Mafia. They could have been bigger than China, bigger than some western states but they choose this. Who would blame the MAJORITY of Ukrainians to avoid this model at all cost?!?

Ray Bas
Ray Bas
1 year ago

I’m so fed up with these arguments. Russia mingled in affairs of a sovereign country that wanted to emancipate. Russia’s answer was the annexation of the crim. You take away a chunk of land from a sovereign country and then wonder why nationalism is on the rise? You starting a war and wonder why more and more people turn against you? Leaving you with the only way they know to suppress this: violence. Bravo!

This brings me back to what started all of this to begin with. A majority in a country that does not want to go the Russian way. And who would be surprised? Russia, with such an amount of natural wealth and resources, is stagnating for almost a decade, and exploiting that wealth only among the elites and the very few. The Russian government has effectively established organization pattern only comparable to the Mafia. They could have been bigger than China, bigger than some western states but they choose this. Who would blame the MAJORITY of Ukrainians to avoid this model at all cost?!?

Last edited 1 year ago by Ray Bas
BJ Kauppi
BJ Kauppi
1 year ago

Absurd and ridiculous. The only “if” here is if Ukraine didn’t have coal and gas fields, large grain supplies, major pipelines to Europe, and a significant coastline on the Black Sea, then and only then this might not be happening. Look at a map, fcol..
Or perhaps “if” some rather naïve and sanctimonious leaders of other countries hadn’t served up Ukraine in their delusional attempts to appease the narcissistic sociopath despot Putler, and not blocked Ukraine’s and Georgia’s acceptance into NATO in their callous and gutless Chamberlain-esque manner, this wouldn’t be happening.
Russians invaded Ukraine in 2014 after Putler’s other attempts at take-overs and puppeteering failed to provide much result, unlike his earlier excursions into other countries and regions before. His false-flag strawmen, ethnic ‘cleansing’, and barbaric brutality is the exact same SOP he used in each of his land grabs before. Russians have been indiscriminately scorched Earth bombing countries since the 90’s under Putler’s greedy plans. Putin kills more “ethnic Russians” than anybody.
Now drop the crazy decoy you’re playing with before more people get hurt.

Neven Curlin
Neven Curlin
1 year ago
Reply to  David Nebeský

Do the killers, rapers and looters need to be killed, raped and looted?

Of course not. Those who associate with Ukraine and think Stepan Bandera is a hero, need to move to western Ukraine. For those who associate more with Russia or want to stay where they are, eastern Ukraine is the place to be. Maybe southern Ukraine as well.

Of course, it would have been best if they could all live together, but that ship has sailed and you can thank the US neocons and Azov heroes for it. They wanted this war. And they got it. The man on the street (and in the trenches) is now paying the price, as per usual.

All we’re waiting for now, is for westerners to get off their moral-outrage-and-virtuous/racist-superiority horse.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Neven Curlin

Sadly, the westerners seem to be giving the latest arms by the tonne to Ukraine.
And now they are about to begin their offensive…

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

What’s sad about that? If the Ukrainians can destroy the Russian army and drive them out of Ukraine that would be a glorious day.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

Irony?!

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  Neven Curlin

Of course the killers, rapers, and looters need to be killed. Every killing of a Russian soldier or collaborator is a heroic, virtuous act. You’re obviously a Russian stooge.

BJ Kauppi
BJ Kauppi
1 year ago
Reply to  Neven Curlin

This delusional rhetoric gets more bizarre by the day. How do people get so suckered into this gibberish? If you are not a cult-controlled Putler troll, then please learn to recognize those tired old strawman tactics when you see them. Don’t take the bait, don’t chase the decoys, don’t get excited; just learn to recognize this obvious scam.
If you can do that, then try to move onto learning something about narcissistic abuse and control, whether it’s regarding cult ‘leaders’ or sociopathic despots like Vlady Putler, et al. The patterns are textbook and universal, and may be eye-opening for you.

Snapper AG
Snapper AG
1 year ago
Reply to  Andre Friedli

An ethnic Russian who is a Ukrainian citizen is still a traitor if he helps the Russians. Traitors deserve death.

Andy E
Andy E
1 year ago
Reply to  Snapper AG

hmm.. Beheading maybe? By ethnic group maybe? No trial by court maybe? Wow.

BJ Kauppi
BJ Kauppi
1 year ago
Reply to  Andre Friedli

Decoy tactics are as old as human conflict and very well known. It’s inherent standard fare even in competitive sport, to get one’s opponent to chase a fake-out to clear a path through their defenses. The Trojan Horse, Patton’s Ghost Army, submarine sonar decoys, Iskander missiles are famous and effective examples.
The immediately costly and/or deadly nature of the aforementioned decoy tactics clearly motivate folks to recognize and mitigate such tactics with vigor, no one willingly falls for them. This is not the case, oddly enough, with the very same decoy tactics used in arguments, marketing, propaganda, scamd, or info-wars. Narcissists and other scammers have these tactics built-in, gaslighting is as natural as breathing to them. While this often makes them look more convincing, it doesn’t take much effort to see right through it. Thing is, when people hear what they want to hear for whatever reason, they don’t even see at all.
This is often naïve and irresponsible, and too often downright dangerous. But unlike military weapon decoys, or even sports fake-outs, people willingly chase and latch themselves onto these verbal decoys, strawmen, and other bs excuses. These tactics appeal to some people’s emotional thinking, they get caught up in them, and basic reason and clarity gets lost to even the most ridiculous and outrageous bs decoy stories. Like these absurd stories Putler puts out.
This gibberish about “ethnic Russians” is just that. Putler kills more “ethnic Russians” than anybody, and he’s been robbing them blind for decades. He’s repeatedly invaded to destroy other’s countries in blatant land grabs to further his energy mafia empire and span of control to continue lining his own pockets and those of his cronies. Just look at a map, it’s no coincidence all these invented “nazis” suddenly appeared where the pipelines, coal and gas fields, and Black Sea/Med access and routes happen to be. By definition Putler is an absolute fascist, and in typical narcissistic sociopath form he deflects and projects his own crimes onto others, especially his victims. It’s textbook.
So why would you want to fall for such a thing? Do you just repeat Putler propaganda or are you making it up yourself as you go? Did you want to be part of a cult – surprisingly many do – or were you somehow naively ensnared? Don’t chase the decoys, don’t take the bait. It just might save you, or at least your rep.