Subscribe
Notify of
guest
25 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Samuel Ross
Samuel Ross
4 months ago

The mark of the true artist is this: he knows when to stop. Doyle.

Marshall Ballantine-Jones
Marshall Ballantine-Jones
4 months ago
Reply to  Samuel Ross

Alas, the artist has no say in this – it’s all about profit, profit and more profit…

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
4 months ago
Reply to  Samuel Ross

Even Doyle was browbeaten at last by fans and publishers to bring back Sherlock Holmes until he final acquiesced and un-killed the great detective. His saga was prophetic of what was to come. In the time since Doyle, the moneymakers have figured out ways to keep control of valuable properties themselves. Now, if one artist wants to quit, they just bring in a new one. Comic books, ironically enough, were an early adopter of this tactic, and now they’ve transitioned to movies, where we no longer talk about pictures, but instead talk about ‘franchises’, or my personal favorite term, ‘properties’ reducing the creative act into something as mundane as a space on a monopoly board. Corporate executives care nothing for the art and everything for the money they can make from it. Still, we should remember that there ARE artists and for all the corporate meddling, sometimes they succeed. The first four phases of the MCU were a great example of this, and Kevin Feige is to be commended for succeeding in implementing his creative vision, however the corporate stooges drive it into the ground, which they surely will, and even within the failures, there will be a few gems, like the most recent Spider-Man movie, which brought back the old heroes and villains in a classy tribute to the franchises successes and failures.

Marc Manley
Marc Manley
4 months ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

In the spirit of UnHerd’s mission, “to push back against the herd mentality with new and bold thinking, and to provide a platform for otherwise unheard ideas, people and places,” I think I’ll add a thought here. There is definitely a talent, skill, or perhaps even an “art” to making money. I certainly don’t have it, nor do I envy those that do, but I can definitely appreciate the talent. I live and work more in the art side of life, but recognize that my particular art, and much artist’s work, would not exist were it not for the patronage of those who have the artistry to turn something like a 10 cent comic book into a multi-billion dollar product. And you would be hard pressed to say that most artists who made it big didn’t appreciate the financial benefit realized by that particular talent. So, at least give credit where credit is due, and try not to lump all corporate executives into the same heap of “stooges.”

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
4 months ago
Reply to  Marc Manley

Allow me to make a distinction. It’s not the money I object to, its the way their money making ‘art’ as you so termed it, grants them a disproportionate level of power and influence over most aspects of society as a whole, from filmmaking to pharmaceuticals and everything else besides. The dollar, as Henry David Thoreau once said, is innocent. The allegiances and advantages bought by those dollars are certainly not. There’s not much you could say to me at this point that could convince me that the pursuit of money to the exclusion of all else and the unchecked power of those who excel at doing so is a good thing. I will concede that I used the term stooges out of personal bias, but I challenge you to prove my bias is misplaced in the current world.

Last edited 4 months ago by Steve Jolly
Marc Manley
Marc Manley
4 months ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

I accept the distinction completely. I hesitated to introduce another element in my post which likely would have aligned with that distinction, but I was limited with my time.
While Thoreau was a transcendentalist (from my vague recollection of a high school english class!) I would hazard a guess that he knew the oft-misquoted biblical verse about money and the root of all evil, and the comment about the innocent dollar was his restatement of it. It’s the love of money—revealed in action by “the pursuit of money to the exclusion of all else”—not money itself, wherein lies the evil. And yes, money and power are joined at the hip. And yet…
I was simply providing a pushback against the lumping together of all corporate types into the one package, labeling all as evil, greedy, money-grubbers. I really believe there are folks in that world who get there simply because they are gifted in that way, love what they do, appreciate the arts, and are artistic in their own right in being able to bring grand visions to fruition. The money to them is just a reward for their talent and efforts. I would hazard to guess this is a rare breed in the current world, but not extinct!

Adrian Maxwell
Adrian Maxwell
4 months ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

As Tommy Cooper said ‘Its not the principle, its the money’.

Jo Nielson
Jo Nielson
4 months ago

i agree, there’s no point to the series now that Endgame is over.
Also, the stories are just awful and overly woke now. We went to Marvel movies to have fun, not to get lectured. They just aren’t fun movies anymore. I hated Black Widow and I went in expecting to like it. I’m still wondering what the point of the Eternals was because it was super convoluted and I had no investment or like for any of the characters or the story. Not going to bother with the new Thor. They’ve jumped the shark and it’s about Disney making more money at this point. They should have quit when they finished Endgame.

harry storm
harry storm
4 months ago
Reply to  Jo Nielson

I thought infinity world and endgame were chaotic and by far the worst of the avengers/CA movies.

Mel B
Mel B
4 months ago
Reply to  harry storm

With you on that Harry. I was getting bored with the whole Thanos thing by the time those two films finally came out, and I yawned my way through both when I could watch them for free. There were too many characters all competing for attention and I just ceased to care about any of them. As for Eternals, I didn’t even make it halfway through, but even it makes some of the Marvel TV series look good.

Nick M
Nick M
4 months ago

I enjoyed watching the new Thor film but also think most of the criticism of it is valid.

It looks like the current story arch is to build up female Marvel characters (Captain Marvel, Female Thor, She-Hulk, Wanda) and then I imagine once we are familiar with them all there will be some sort of storyline that brings them together and furthers the main story arch like the Avengers films did.

As Martin Scorsese said, they are more like theme park rides than films. But I’m fine with that. Sometimes it’s nice to have a background film on while multi-tasking on one’s phone.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
4 months ago

Crikey – it’s another world. I’ll stick to the Czech New Wave of the 1960s if that’s OK.
According to Jeremy from The Quartering all these movies are failing because they are too ‘woke’, And then this: ‘As Marvel scholar Douglas Wolk…’
All of which is just an excuse of (almost) quoting John Lennon:
‘A woke-ing class hero is something to be’.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
4 months ago

I yearn for when the fashion for fairytale, superhero and sorceror movies finally comes to an end. It’s just a lot of bad acting, poor scripts that this writer probably thinks are genius, bad plots where devices are invented making everything possible (god how naive was I for thinking it was ridiculous when Bobby Ewing stepped out the shower!) and thereby trivialising to the point of inconsequence the human condition of the drama. And a lot of noisy fight scenes with interludes for nothing. It’s been twenty years now, please, let it end!

Last edited 4 months ago by Ian Stewart
Kevin Vail
Kevin Vail
4 months ago

The Thor movies have all been awful. In Ragnorok Thor fully became the comic relief. I have not watched any of the movies released after Endgame, and don’t intend to.

Mark Thomas Lickona
Mark Thomas Lickona
4 months ago
Reply to  Kevin Vail

I would like to fight about the original Thor movie. It wasn’t perfect, but it’s almost like we all hated Dark World so much we don’t even want to remember, let alone appreciate, the film to which it was the abysmal sequel. The original had an actual emotional arc. The first and only emotional moment in TL&T was the one where Thor is retelling the story of the original on the deck of that stupid screaming goat boat. Not to mention that the OG Thor was based af. Which I suspect is why he has been so roundly deconstructed/humiliated. It’s almost like the equally-based actor who plays him did too good a job at making us fall in love with something divine and is now being punished for it. Which actor himself has rightly decried this film as something springing from the mind of a seven-year-old, which is being kind, since seven is the age of reason. OK, gauntlet thrown, let’s rumble.

Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
4 months ago

The issue is … Disney. Its the MacDonalds of movie land.

John Pickford
John Pickford
4 months ago

I think that in a world with so many problems it is offensive and morally bankrupt that so much effort, energy, intellect, time, money and resource was wasted on one person’s self obsessed smirk at making a movie. Where was the team telling Waititi “this just doesn’t work”. Christian Bale must have been exhausted trying to lift that pile. Chris Pratts and the Guardians “cameo” was a highlight and it went downhill from there. Best compliment….it was fun in the same way as supporting your mates ham up their first amateur dramatics play.

Last edited 4 months ago by John Pickford
Phil Mac
Phil Mac
4 months ago

The films are wreck, they foolishly skipped over the later Silver Age great stories and went straight to the garbage that now sees comic circulation as a fraction of its heyday level.
The fact is that pretty much 90% of what made Marvel great was created over about 5 years by genius creatives Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko & a few others; Fantastic Four, Spider-man, Hulk, Thor & the Asgardians, Daredevil, Dr Strange, X-Men (original), Iron Man & Avengers. It always cracked me up when the culture warriors laid claim to Black Panther, to the extent of haranguing white audiences, they didn’t seem to know the character was thought up by two Jewish New Yorkers. What’s new about their ignorance?
The issues over FF ownership prevented them accessing that stable of brilliant villains, especially Dr Doom, and of course the cosmic characters Galactus, Watcher & Surfer. They should have fixed that.
Some of what came later lived up to the SA level – Claremont’s revamped X-Men being an outstanding instance – but as time passed they were followed by low-talent hacks living off the legacy of the greats, and now it’s just trash.
The MCU skipped the middle bit and went straight to garbage like Ms Marvel. It’s done.

Adrian Maxwell
Adrian Maxwell
4 months ago

Its very simple – the Super Hero genre is about a human being (or at a push, someone from Krypton) having superhuman powers operating in a relatively ordinary universe. Thus the medium becomes the message. When that universe becomes psychedelic, pop art, Michael Moorcock Fantasia with added dimension portals and music by a rock band, the message becomes the medium. When the magic becomes the main event its time to return to the Batcave and lie low for 1000 years. The crowbarring in of ‘woke’ elements is only the latest example of when the genre lost its way, when Tony Hopkins agreed to live on an astral plane.

Last edited 4 months ago by Adrian Maxwell
Ian Gribbin
Ian Gribbin
4 months ago

Waste of an article. Watch Nerdrotic on youTube for a proper review.

Social engineering narratives have taken over from plots and stories.

Woke morons from liberal arts colleges do the writing

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
4 months ago

The problem with the entire superhero universe in recent years – Marvel, Star wars, name anything – is that they are too busy pushing diversity in a world where real world superheroes are ordinary people who are mostly men and disproportionately white men.

Whether it’s dying like flies in Iraq or Ukraine for your country, rescuing kids from a Thai cave, grabbing kids from a burning house while delivering pizza, the real world of superheroes is racist and sexist. We know humans can’t be superheroes but having some correlation between imaginary superpowers and ordinary, put your life on the line bravery is helpful. And as Bill Burr put it, not much diversity or feminism when the ship is sinking, house on fire or the call goes out for military conscription.

Tesseract Orion
Tesseract Orion
4 months ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

Hoping you’re not serious. Because otherwise you come across as a deluded white supremacist.

Funnily enough those ‘too diverse’ movies are doing just fine around the world, where the ‘real heroes’ are emphatically not male and white, in fact quite the reverse.

0 0
0 0
4 months ago

His name is samir you idiot

Last edited 4 months ago by
Jason Highley
Jason Highley
4 months ago

As you alluded to in your tour of the other IP’s (DC, Transformers, etc.), this is hardly just a Marvel problem. The problem is that the culture war is coming home to roost, and none of our entertainment reflects the true, the beautiful, or the good anymore. Could anyone even make a realistic Bible movie with actual Christian themes anymore? Perish the thought! All of that money, and ALL of it is in service of white knuckling this foolish woke ideology and all its contradictions.
Most memes on this are more entertaining than the actual fare. For the perfect illustration, I witnessed Wojack guffawing with “awwwww” at two rock dudes making a baby in the most recent Thor, while turning around and mocking Christians for the shallow lives they must inevitably live while in the service of so great a superstition.

Last edited 4 months ago by Jason Highley
N D
N D
4 months ago

Great article. Thor 4 was okay, not great not terrible. Apart from Spiderman the only other decent recent production in my opinion is Loki and even that had a few dull episodes.