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Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

One of my college buddies bartended in a strip club. All the performers were drug addicts, every last one of them. Words like fantasy, desire, and the ludicrously infantalizing “girl boss” didn’t enter into what was their squalid, debased reality. Culture always glamorizes the beautiful concubines, the Mayflower Madams, the veiled harem Salomes. No one gives a thought to the Tuesday afternoon turnpike stripper – least of all herself.

Jane Hewland
Jane Hewland
1 year ago

For God’s sake lets have some decent articles about real issues for a change. I guess this sort of thing attracts clicks and eyeballs but meanwhile I am struggling to open a bank account for a Ukranian refugee and no one will give a face to face meeting. Everything is online. Everything takes weeks. Our society seems to have abandoned real life contact between companies, councils, government and their customers. There’s a real problem. It’s not sustainable. If daft women want to take their clothes off and sad desperate men want to spend money watching them, good luck to them. I could not give a monkeys. And nor should anyone.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jane Hewland
Adam Bartlett
Adam Bartlett
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Hewland

Have you tried HSBC? If no luck there, maybe take them (together with passport, proof of address, & ideally any ofical docuemnt showing permission to be in UK) down to a local libary & a libarian may help you open an account with someone like Revolut, Pockit or tide. Tide I think may now be only for business accounts but I can reccomend as know several people who bank there. Best not to keep large balances long term on these fintech accounts as there are occaional issues, but for most they are fine, especially Tide. It may take less than 10 mins if you get a helpful libarian & have the right docs.

I agree that the trend to online only warrants more attention, and that maybe we could have a little more focus on ‘real’ issues. But I hope sex & gender still continue to get a fair ammount of Unherd attention. These are among the leading dicussion topics on the entire internet, according to google trends & other analytics they have been since about 2016. Rather central for human wellbeing, and all is not well in these areas.

Jane Hewland
Jane Hewland
1 year ago
Reply to  Adam Bartlett

Thank you for this thoughtful reply. I appreciate you taking the time and it has brightened my rough day. But sex and gender are simply NON issues. And the vast majority of people out here think so. The only way to shut the nonsense up is to ignore it. Also I hate the idea of toxic masculinity as a mother of a son and granny of two grandsons. We need to stop treating people as classes of anything and treat them as individuals. At the individual level people are either decent people with principles. Or not. As one bullied daily at an all girls school, I can assure you that femininity can be every bit as toxic. In some women. That’s the point. We shouldn’t be condemning anything at a general level. We should be judging people as individuals.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jane Hewland
Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Hewland

Not sure that ignoring nonsense is necessarily a good tactic but I certainly agree with your last sentence for the reasons you give.

G Gmc
G Gmc
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Not sure who said it first, but: “The ultimate minority is the individual”

Stephen T
Stephen T
1 year ago
Reply to  G Gmc

The smallest minority on earth is the individual” Ayn Rand

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Hewland

Whilst i sympathise with your bank account issue and wish you luck, the biology of us all (whatever gender(s) we find ourselves attracted to) is the very basis of human existence, and not just in a mundane reproductive sense. The everyday transactions between us all are infused with it, even just passing a stranger on the street. You know it, i know it; so lets be honest and just say that civilisation exists to provide a means to facilitate it whilst providing us with something to do ‘in the meantime’ and providing care for those who no longer actively participate in the biological process. And even the ‘in the meantime’ allows individuals to acquire greater resources and therefore greater traction in fulfilling their biological desires through conspicuous socio-economic success, even in the absence of physical attributes!

Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Hewland

Nat West were great with ours, all done and dusted in one meeting

Malcolm Knott
Malcolm Knott
1 year ago

Would you want your daughter to be a stripper?

Juffin Hully
Juffin Hully
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Would you want your daughter to be a cleaner?

M Harries
M Harries
1 year ago
Reply to  Juffin Hully

Stripper or Cleaner? Cleaner.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
1 year ago
Reply to  M Harries

To earn – minus tax and ‘NI’ (sic) – less in a week than a stripper can earns in an hour, leaving her the rest of the week for herself? It’s not as simple an argument as you think.
If people could earn as much for cleaning as for stripping, there would be very few stripping for an income.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Juffin Hully

Cleaner.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

What you want may not enter the equation. Your daughter gets to choose her own adventures.

Terry Davies
Terry Davies
1 year ago

Absolutely!

Malcolm Knott
Malcolm Knott
1 year ago

OK, so she comes home and says, ‘Mum, I’ve got a job as a stripper’. Her choice, not yours, but are you happy about it; or would you rather she did something else?

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago

That was a “no”.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Would you want your teen daughter to be allowed to be a boy?

The influence of this culture of personal exhibitionism and ‘be anything you to want to be’ goes beyond mere job choices.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10887159/Protesters-clash-parents-outside-drag-kids-pride-drag-gay-nightclub-dallas.html

Last edited 1 year ago by Ian Stewart
Terry Davies
Terry Davies
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Her choice…. and she knows the risks, and rewards.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago
Reply to  Terry Davies

Does she though???? What if her boyfriend pressured her into it? What if she has an addiction?

Lord Rochester
Lord Rochester
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

We’ll, in that case one should be more worried about the boyfriend and the addiction.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

“Pressured her into it”
I believe women have agency and should not be treated like helpless children.
They have the right to make their own decisions (and mistakes) and are responsible for their actions.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Or parents pressuring their children into accountancy.

It’s the pressuring that’s bad and parents do more often than anyone

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

I don’t think anyone “wants” to be a stripper at all, more a case of needs must and obviously there are those who’d rather strip than clean or be a cashier.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

They’d rather strip than clean or be a cashier because those jobs don’t pay as much. Women are rewarded much more for being degraded than they are for working at jobs that don’t sexualize them. It’s truly sick.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Supply and demand. There are plenty more women capable of being and willing to be cleaners than there are capable of being and willing to be strippers. You don’t need a reasonably decent looking face and body to be a cleaner and many more women are willing to clean than strip. As for demand there is always going to be a demand by men to see “a pretty girl who’s naked”.
I am not sure a girl appearing naked is necessarily degrading unless you think artist’s models are degraded but as Allison Barrows highlights the milieu of the strip club and its association with drugs and prostitution tends to degrade so I would not be enthusiastic if a daughter wanted to become a stripper.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

There are those who make a decent living (I’m led to believe) cleaning in the buff so I guess it’s something to keep in mind when too old to keep stripping but don’t want to drop too far down the pay scale!

Rafi Stern
Rafi Stern
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

I find the power balance in the artist-model relationship to be problematic as well. Traditionally, and still today, It involves powerful men drawing subservient women. Moreover, the act of depiction involves objectification of the subject of the painting. In order to depict an image you must see the model not as a person, but as a collection of shapes, lines and planes. If you see the subject too early in the process, then you will fail to depict it accurately. We all have an inner image of the body which the artist needs to overcome in order to record the actual image that is before him. This is the great challenge of life painting, but also an uneasy experience. But I digress.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Empowered.
They are only degraded in your mind.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Reports online would disagree with this opinion. Some women say they like to be looked at and being paid makes it possible for them to make a living doing it.
You may not want to acknowledge it but some women like the attention in a safe environment.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Liking the attention doesn’t necessarily equate to aspiring to be a stripper though. Although I did go to school with a girl who said she wanted to be a page 3 model! She didn’t make it though, probably for the best.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago

You wrote: “The most compelling story is just the truth: that stripping is hard, and fun, and sad, and exciting, and messy, and human”
But is that really the truth?
And if so, whose?
The idea that stripping is “fun” and “exciting” is a Luxury Belief, supported by people who have options other than stripping to survive.
For those without those options, stripping is hard and sad and messy.
But as you said in your article, not everyone is privileged enough to publish a book (to have their truths read or heard).
The “sex work is work” narrative is pushed by the same people who push the “trans women are women” narrative: both these lines are thought terminating cliches meant to dissuade people from looking beneath the surface (in other words, from looking at the truth).
If stripping were empowering, every politician running for office would do a strip tease during political debates.
When people publicly sexualize themselves, they demean themselves. But many low income women have no other options than to demean themselves to survive.
Does lying about this fact help them or hurt them?
If we acknowledge that stripping is generally harmful to women, would we be motivated to provide alternative sources of income for them?
Or do we just shrug our shoulders and say “sex work is work” and leave them to it?
We have primarily chosen the latter, because we as a society don’t really care about poor women and girls.
If they have to serve up their bare asses to survive, let them. Who cares how it affects them?
As long as the men are having a good time, let’s just pretend it’s “just work”.

Andrew D
Andrew D
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Well said

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

I would suspect the tragic part of the story is that the men aren’t having a “good time” either

Had the “luck” to be taken along to an office party to a strip joint a couple of times

Not to get into the gory details, but wouldn’t want to go there again even if you paid me. Shallow, fake, and just sickening, a sick parody of genuine male-female bonding.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

You clearly have a disdain for authors, not sure why but I would assume that they’re published not because they’re privileged but because of hard work and passion for their work.
Earlier you said that those who strip do so because the money is better than that taken home from working as a cleaner or cashier so it’s hardly “stripping to survive”.
I’m a firm believer that there are jobs that are suited to some and not others, I suspect stripping is one of them and social care is definitely one of them and the stripper will still come off better for it financially. I don’t care to judge Strippers on their choice of profession but let’s be honest here, it is a choice otherwise they’d be doing something else like all those who can’t bring themselves to strip or haven’t got the necessary assets.

Paul Nathanson
Paul Nathanson
1 year ago

Instead of arguing specifically about strippers, everyone should consider what underlies the topic and several related topics.
I wish that people would stop using the overused and misunderstood word “objectification.” If that means interacting with people on a superficial level instead of a profoundly intimate one–that is, turning them into performers of some service–then not only do we all objectify most people every day in a wide variety of ways but we must do so. Otherwise, no one would be able carry on the business of daily life. What some people call “objectification” as a sin of men (as if women were immune), I call sex. There’s nothing wrong with sex, per se. That’s nature, not culture (although culture elaborates on nature in ways that can be either moral or immoral) and certainly not some conspiracy of “the patriarchy.”
It’s surely true than straight men have always enjoyed looking at and interacting with female bodies. And why not? Being gay, moreover, I can assure everyone that men like me have always enjoyed looking at and interacting with male bodies (a topic that no one on this thread seems to care about). Moreover, women do the same thing in some of their interactions with men, whether directly or indirectly. Otherwise, none of us would be here to have this discussion. The problem is not men (or women) who seek some service from others but men (or women) who seek nothing but that one service–which really is dehumanizing for everyone involved.

Dennis Boylon
Dennis Boylon
1 year ago

Easy money for young pretty women. I can see why it is hard to pass up. Sometimes in the seedy side of life you get a better glimpse of our real nature too. There is no need to put on a false veneer of respectability. So it is not so entirely a fantasy but just some of our base desires set free. Greed, lust, the thrill of the chase… as it is a competition for the attention of the prettiest women and the competition between those women for the money in the pockets. It isn’t for the faint of heart

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Dennis Boylon

I was mulling over the fact that the strippers will probably earn more from their work than the authors will receive in royalties from their books about the strippers.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Quite correct. The good ones, who travel nationally to perform in the elite clubs, are compensated very well indeed.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

They have a short shelf life and make up less than 1% of all women and girls who strip.

Laurence Siegel
Laurence Siegel
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

They are also not “the good ones.” “Feature” performers are usually washed-up porn stars and are, if you ask me, repulsive. The girl-next-door fantasy is what most guys are after.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

You are completely ignorant about the reality of strippers’ lives if you believe that strippers earn more than published authors. The idea that strippers have a great life is a Luxury Belief promoted by the sheltered and uninformed.

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Or are you ignorant of royalties earned by published authors. Imagine how many people actually buy books written about strippers (especially ones that don’t contain salacious celebrity gossip) and consider that the author will probably see less than £1 per sale of that book. Not every author has the following of JK Rowling, particularly when they don’t write fiction. The best they can hope for is to make the mandatory reading list of a women’s studies college course. Publishers on the other hand make a fortune.
My comment isn’t that I see stripping as some glorious job, I was mulling over the irony of knowing that book royalties suck when you’re not selling at JKRs level. I couldn’t be a stripper. I’m too old, too fat and can’t dance. I’d sooner take the cut and be a cleaner. Nor do I judge them for it. So wind your neck in and maybe apologise to the authors that you assume are quids in.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lindsay S
Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

Women who strip only reveal the outer shell of themselves – all too many women authors reveal their mind, their inner neuroses and much more that is personal to them. Are they not degraded by being subjected to harsh review – criticism of their inner selves.
This applies particularly to those lady authors whose articles revolve round the incidents of their personal lives, their alcoholism, their sex life etc. Are they not coarsened and hardened by their experience of adverse review and comment particularly by unsympathetic men? Is it any sort of job for a sensitive well brought up girl? Don’t let your daughter reveal her innermost life to the gaze of rude menfolk!

Lindsay S
Lindsay S
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

What’s truly ironic is the fact that when women write about sex in a fifty shades way then other women go mental for it. Women might not be that big on watching porn but they certainly like to read it! Even if it’s poorly written and factually incorrect!
*disclaimer -I haven’t actually read fifty shades or watched the movie, so my views on the quality of its writing are based solely on the reviews of others.

Laney R Sexton
Laney R Sexton
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Penny, you’re always reliable for frank and earthy takes. Keep it up!

Laurence Siegel
Laurence Siegel
1 year ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

They should. The work is infinitely harder.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

Seems like the people who object the most to sex work are women. Maybe because it undermines their control of their husbands and boyfriends.
Men have always paid for sex one way or another. There’s nothing more expensive than a wife in suburbia and after a few years the sex in that relationship becomes less and less frequent.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
carol Healey
carol Healey
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Sadly, William Shaw you like a lot of men think sex is about and for men. Men “do it” and women have it done to them. You don’t think sex is a mutual pleasurable experience between two people. You don’t see marriage as an equal partnership. You think women submit to their husbands for a new washing machine or a new dress!. You no doubt think if a man works he owns the house, the furniture as well as his wife. Maybe if men like you thought about the woman as a partner during sex instead of a human condom, she would not as you say lose interest after time.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  carol Healey

“You no doubt think if a man works he owns the house, the furniture as well as his wife. ”
The problem is really that even if a man slogs to provide for his family, he effectively has no right over his house or furniture, or even to see his kids….and stands to lose it all, for no fault of his, at the whim of his wife.

When marriage ceases to be a partnership and when divorce rates skyrocket as soon as women get the passcode called no fault divorce, thereby making it clear that in many marriages they were only sticking around for the paycheck…

What’s left? What’s the difference between a strip club and giving a woman a ring, other than the fact that the former is cheaper and easier to get out of?

I should just add though: it’s a bit of a mistaken belief that men are just in for sex. Most men I know deeply prefer a more emotional, close, long term relationship to meaningless, casual flings.

Last edited 1 year ago by Samir Iker
ARNAUD ALMARIC
ARNAUD ALMARIC
1 year ago
Reply to  carol Healey

Well you can thank Semitic- Christianity for that state of affairs.
Thing were much better during the epic days of the Pax Romana, when this macho nonsense was strictly circumscribed. (at least the financial aspects were kept well under control.)
Women such as Eumachia of Pompeii, Julia Domna, Claudia Severa and Sulpicia Lepidina would never have put up with such tosh.

Last edited 1 year ago by ARNAUD ALMARIC
Terry Davies
Terry Davies
1 year ago
Reply to  carol Healey

Very well put Carol

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago
Reply to  carol Healey

It’s always men like William and Samir who support “sex work”. And these are the men so called “feminists” are supporting when they defend “sex work”.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

In my defense, once you hit middle age, any sex is work.

I suspect feminists defend “sex work” not to support men like me who steer clear of those ghastly places anyway, but for the same reason they support burkhas, dead drug addicted criminals and casual sex: they have utter contempt for real women and their problems.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  carol Healey

Ad hominem criticism is irrelevant.
What a wrote is based on facts and data, not feelings and wishful thinking.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  carol Healey

This is certainly true of some men but it is also true that some women use their sexuality to capture a wealthy man.

In my case, my wife couldn’t resist my body of Adonis, face of chiselled marble and honeyed words

jules Ritchie
jules Ritchie
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

‘undermines control of the boyfriend’..why can’t they just love and respect each throughout their relationship?
‘men have always paid for sex one way or another’… makes it right does it?

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  jules Ritchie

1. Because men can be tempted, and girlfriends/wives often let themselves go when in a comfortable relationship. Women sometimes forget that men are visual and they are always looking.
2. It’s the way of the world, and has been for thousands of years. It’s not going to change, ever.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Terry Davies
Terry Davies
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Just don’t get this, hence the downtick

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Terry Davies

Which part?
That wives don’t like their husbands visiting strip clubs when on business trips, or
That women like, even expect, men to pay when on dates and like a man who can provide financially for the family?

Karen Mosley
Karen Mosley
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

“Seems like the people who object the most to sex work are women. Maybe because it undermines their control of their husbands and boyfriends.”
Well that speaks volumes.
What happened to all your female support and empowerment tosh? Didn’t need to scratch much to reveal your fetid underbelly.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

The only way the sex becomes less and less frequent is if the man is a loser in the romance department.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Many men probably wish it were so. Unfortunately the evidence doesn’t support it.
A YouTube search will provide you with a better understanding.

Alan B
Alan B
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Or maybe misery loves company?

Philip Stott
Philip Stott
1 year ago

I have only ever been in a lap-dancing club once, on a mate’s stag do.
Lots of pretty ladies, but even though I’d had a fair bit to drink, the whole thing felt pretty sordid, and I didn’t enjoy it

Adam Bartlett
Adam Bartlett
1 year ago
Reply to  Philip Stott

Interesting. I’ve been to about a dozen, though not for over ten years. A couple were stag dos, mostly was work outtings. It used to be the company culture in the investment banks I used to work in back in the 90s & early naughties (allbeit the informal workers culture, not the culture senior management were trying to impose, some of them used to quite into diversity even back in the 90s). I dont rember finding the clubs (or occainonal pub night) sordid, or noticing any of the dancers were obviously on hard drugs. Most seemned to be enjoying themselves, and this is supported by various studies finding higher reported job satisfaction compared with women working in entry level retail can care work. That said, no doubt it is sordid sometimes.

Laney R Sexton
Laney R Sexton
1 year ago

A friend encouraged me to audition as a stripper in Portland. While I waited my turn I watched a stripper who worked there do her Tuesday night dance, her eyes were rolling back on her head she was so high. I walked out of there.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago

It would be interesting to understand the impact on the participants, and their social circle, in sex work as a result of the sex videos they upload to the porn sites in their zillions.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

According to Cathy Reisenwitz, a “sex-positive” writer and campaigner: “Most female whorephobia comes from us (mostly unconsciously) viewing sex workers as scabs in the sexual marketplace. Women are afraid that if men are allowed to easily, safely buy sex they won’t commit to financially supporting any one woman for life.”

p.s. I got two downvotes below for saying I support female empowerment. UnHerd readers must still be living in the last century.

“Why More Women Than Ever Are Visiting Strip Clubs”

https://www.refinery29.com/amp/en-gb/2017/11/178418/strip-clubs-popular-with-women-friendly

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Mark Kennedy
Mark Kennedy
1 year ago

“Indeed, stripping is one of the few forms of sex work that not only leaves sex purely in the realm of unfulfilled fantasy, but in which the lack of satisfaction is the entire point of the thing. The men who frequent strip clubs are paying explicitly to be titillated, to be teased within an inch of their lives, and then to leave, without ever having touched the object of their desire.”

The unstated major premise behind this claim seems to be that men who frequent strip clubs want to touch, fondle and, ideally, bed the strippers. But what if this isn’t true? What if strip club patrons simply want to gaze at beautiful women, and in particular at the body parts of those women that are usually covered by clothing? This is a perfectly intelligible male desire, and in cases where that’s what’s motivating the patrons they clearly are being satisfied. Moreover, it’s hard to think of another social setting in which this desire could be satisfied.

What motivates the performing women–apart from economic incentives–is not so easily discerned, but I prefer to think generosity of spirit and a conviction that patrons actually appreciate what’s being offered them play larger roles than a perverse desire to leave people unsatisfied.

Jonathan Story
Jonathan Story
1 year ago

..and will be for the next 200k years.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan Story

I didn’t realize that human history was kept 200,000 years ago. I must look up one of those books from 198,000 BC.

Lord Rochester
Lord Rochester
1 year ago

“That the strippers themselves tend to disagree on all of the aforementioned points makes things even more complicated.”

They are never listened to in these conversations. See the situation in Edinburgh for just that.

Laney R Sexton
Laney R Sexton
1 year ago
Reply to  Lord Rochester

What’s happening in Edinburgh? American asking

Adam Bartlett
Adam Bartlett
1 year ago
Reply to  Laney R Sexton

The council there recently voted to ban strip clubs in a year from now. A couple of other UK cities ( Chester & Swansea) have already done so.

ARNAUD ALMARIC
ARNAUD ALMARIC
1 year ago
Reply to  Adam Bartlett

Which just proves that lovely old English adage that: “A Scotchman is someone who has a very nasty, sneaking feeling that someone, somewhere, is having a jolly good time”.

ARNAUD ALMARIC
ARNAUD ALMARIC
1 year ago
Reply to  Adam Bartlett

Both Welsh off course.

Adam Bartlett
Adam Bartlett
1 year ago
Reply to  Lord Rochester

Mostly true, though it was only by one vote that the council voted for the ban. Last week I was one of the first 30 to sign Annie F (an Enginburgh strippers) petition to reverse the ban. Over 23,000 have now, and her union has already raised over 7k for a legal appeal. So many regular people, and quite a few councilors and other decision makers do listen to them. I’d say the only group that never do are our friends the extreme feminists.

0 0
0 0
1 year ago

Garden of Eden: ironic that God made them put clothes on after they sinned. Do we wear them in Heaven ?

Last edited 1 year ago by 0 0
Sam McGowan
Sam McGowan
1 year ago

The only place I’ve ever seen strippers was in the bars in Naminoue in Okinawa where young girls, some with boa constrictors around their neck, would go from bar to bar putting on strip shows. We weren’t there for the strippers, we were there for the booze and the B-girls who might go to a hotel with you when the bar closed. I knew one very bright one university student from Kyoto who started working in one of the clubs as a hostess. She wouldn’t go home with you but one night she showed up as a stripper. They do it for one reason and one reason only, the money.

G Gmc
G Gmc
1 year ago

When you find yourself ‘mentally dressing’ them, it’s probably time to make your excuses and leave

Grace Goodman
Grace Goodman
1 year ago

When anyone says, “I never felt violated” and they are engaging in an act and working in a profession that is exploiting them, the person saying this is in denial. What the article leaves out is how underage girls are exploited, how many of the women are abused by boyfriends and pimps who “own” them, how the club owners are the ones making most of the money, how drug addiction and alcoholism is encouraged to keep women compliant and desperate. The true seedy underbelly of this “profession” is not acknowledged in books that promote the fantasy that stripping is an expression of women’s power. It is not.

Mark Kennedy
Mark Kennedy
1 year ago
Reply to  Grace Goodman

(?) You can make a case for the stripping industry phenomenon having a ‘seedy underbelly’ without committing yourself to the indefensible categorical claim that anybody who doesn’t react to X exactly the way you do is ‘in denial.’ Other people are every bit as much the final authority when it comes to how they feel, and why, as you are about your own feelings and convictions.

Grace Goodman
Grace Goodman
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark Kennedy

It is not quite accurate to call my comment a “reaction.” It is my opinion. It is true that we are all our own final authority. My point is that stripping is exploitation, and the author’s comment denies that fact.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

to me, watching a stripper, let alone paying so to do, would be akin to watching and/ or paying to watch people eat in a restaurant: perhaps the world, thanks to the interweb, is just full of watchers not doers?