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Arkadian X
Arkadian X
1 year ago

Amen to that!

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

“Why would anyone trust the British scientists now?”
A question I keep asking myself. Our scientific community is an absolute disgrace. If you get every single major decision wrong, you should be rightly ignored.

Graeme Ackland
Graeme Ackland
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Ferguson’s model showed that doing nothing would give 500,000 death – but we didn’t do nothing. Doing lockdowns with no vaccine they predicted 200,000, and even better with vaccines : current estimates are 180,000. Given how little we knew in March 2020, that’s astonishingly accurate.
Curiously, Ferguson’s model also showed closing schools was a bad idea in the long run, exactly as this article suggests.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/10/07/covid-19-modelling-the-pandemic/
The decision to close schools was about “Saving the NHS”. Scientists don’t make decisions, politicians do.

David Redfern
David Redfern
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Ackland

Ferguson’s 500,000 figure was pure fantasy as demonstrated by Sweden.

according to calibrations from researchers at the universities at Lund and Uppsala, based on the Imperial College report, were supposed to be between 85,000 and 96,000 — the Swedish death toll stood at less than 6,000.

That’s not just wrong, that’s catastrophically and indefensibly wrong. From those numbers alone it is futile and puerile to present that “we didn’t do nothing” when, in fact, we should have done nothing.
Fergusons models, which have a solid history of being catastrophically wrong (as illustrated), were torn apart by numerous people including Google engineers who were appalled that he was using an obsolete language with millions of lines of unverified code, something abandoned decades ago.
Even in light of all this, our government utterly ignored that the man was, and remains, utterly incompetent and should be, at the very least, stripped of his academic qualifications thereby rendering him unemployable by any academic entity.
Instead of listening to far better qualified individuals than Ferguson, our government and the media shut them down.
Hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost thanks to our governments reckless behaviour, and officials including Ferguson need to answer for mass homicide or nothing will stop them from doing it again.

Adam Bacon
Adam Bacon
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Ackland

With great effort, conflating deaths WITH Covid and OF Covid, the statisticians managed to create a figure far greater than any real excess deaths.

And thank goodness that Sweden stuck it out, to be the control group in the catastrophic global experiment.

Lockdowns seem to me to be analogous with bed rest, for decades intuitively regarded as an essential part of recovery from heart attacks and surgery. Evidence based medicine blew that illusion out of the water, demonstrating the vast array of complications it caused, just as it is now demonstrating the vast collateral damage of lockdowns, for, at best, negligible benefit.

Dave Tagge
Dave Tagge
1 year ago
Reply to  Graeme Ackland

Graeme, you are missing one of the key claims coming from the Ferguson model, as noted in the article: not just the headline number, but that many “could die in the space of a couple months”. The implications of the claim were likely to be more deaths even than the headline numbers, because it implied metrics such as COVID patients alone requiring more ICU beds than available in the U.S. (and even worse in the UK, which has fewer ICU beds per capita). That was based on an assumption that SARS-CoV-2 infections would rise inexorably until hitting a calculated herd immunity threshold (>50% of a country’s population).
Instead, what happened even in areas that didn’t mandate stringent lockdowns in response to rising COVID numbers – such as Sweden and multiple U.S. states – was that initial COVID waves lasted roughly 6-8 weeks and infected perhaps 15% to 20% of the population before subsiding. One can debate the precise reasons for this, but it appears to result from some combination of seasonality, social structure (not everyone is connected to everyone else, so some chains of a respiratory virus can run through a connected group and then “burn out” by failing to jump to others), and voluntary measures (such as some businesses choosing to have employees work from home even in the absence of mandates to do so).
That last point – voluntary measures taken by private businesses and citizens weighing their own view of costs and benefits – is categorically different from mandated lockdown because it respects basic principles of liberty in a free society. It’s also likely to have a far better ratio of benefits to costs than blanket mandates because it decentralizes decision-making to private actors aware of their own circumstances when deciding whether or not to implement these measures.
Should Ferguson (and other epidemiologists) have been aware of this possible in the Imperial model? I would argue that they should at least have noted it as a qualifier, given the history of other respiratory virus epidemics (specifically pandemic influenza). These similarly followed seasonal/cyclical patterns where areas experienced multiple waves, with the first waves subsiding well before total infections hit a theoretical herd immunity threshold. And recall, of course, that the actual policy actions taken in response to the model’s prediction were the largest peacetime restrictions ever imposed on the populations of Western Europe, the United States, etc.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago

It is certainly right to celebrate the good sense of Anders Tegnell and his mentor but I do wonder if there were other factors enabling him to hold the line on a sensible plan. Clearly Tegnell must have had political backing. Did he face the sort of onslaught from a hysterical MSM and opposition politicians that Boris did to the UK’s initially more reasonable stance on lockdown?
The impression I had at the time was of the appalling hysteria of the MSM in the UK coupled with the political grandstanding of the opposition and particularly Sturgeon which whipped up fear in the population making it difficult for Boris and the scientific advisors to hold to the Swedish line given the extreme reactions in much of Europe that had experienced rising infection rates earlier than the UK.

Bruno Lucy
Bruno Lucy
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

The main thing that needs to be understood is the government agencies independence toward the government. This is not something to be messed about in Sweden and obviously very very hard to understand for none swedes……like me…..until the Norwegians kicked me out and I managed to catch the last train out of Oslo.
I could not believe Sweden would not lock down……and they didn’t. Sweden became my home for the following 3 months.
I discovered both UnHerd and Johann Gieseke on his first interview on April 2020. His matter of fact frumpy demeanour immediately appealed to me in comparison to the grandiloquence of Macron who stated, no less, that France was at war, walking on all basic civil liberties like never seen before since the war.
A friend of mine was at the time in the Gendarmerie reserve in Brittany and, since she is a woman, was called in in all the domestic, child abuse cases and these were just staggering.
Reading the foreign press, especially German, British and French, about Sweden and being in the country was simply amazing. Never in my life did I read so many lies written by journalists who were stationed in Sweden.
I also met Tegnell’s haters and he actually had to have a protection detail but for many, the majority, he saved the day and most of all their children sanity.
Has the world learned something from Sweden ? Germany certainly not with a health minister scaremongering the country……mask mandate on trains with a scorching heat.
Karl Lauterbach certainly needs a holiday……in Sweden

Last edited 1 year ago by Bruno Lucy
Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruno Lucy

Thank you for that explanation of the independence government agencies enjoy from government. Clearly in the hands of sensible men this is a great advantage. Independence has its dangers as we see here in the UK where numerous government agencies are able to pursue damaging woke policies that are not driven by government policy and are often contrary to them.

I am also interested to hear that Tegnell had to have protection. This certainly mirrors some of the MSM hysteria here. In practice large sections of the population simply disregarded the strict edicts as we well know from partygate and beergate – and it certainly was not just politicians and civil servants but many of the rest of us. Of course those whose lives were disrupted by the restrictions- even those that were sensible – now seek their revenge on the “hypocrites”.

Bruno Lucy
Bruno Lucy
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Tegnell needed protection because in times of crisis some people need someone to hate….and as Laura says, he was the poster boy of the agency.
There was an attempt by some 200 medical professionals to undermine his course of action with an article in the press. These 200 were swiftly multiplied by 10 in the foreign press and some forgetting Sweden has only 10 million people, tried the 20 000 medical professionals stunt. Pathetic. This group quickly crawled back to under the stone they had come from having absolutely no support from the population who thought enjoying a beer on a terrace was a lot more appealing than lockdown.
Plus his non flamboyant style annoyed all those who need pomp and drama. The man is no bull….just facts. Pretty rare these days.
All in all, Sweden will have paved the way only….and only if people refuse the diabolical tricks that were pulled on them next time. It’s up to them and not to the politicians and their mad scientists who are already ready for the next one……with the same tools.

Laura Creighton
Laura Creighton
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruno Lucy

Everything you say is perfectly correct.
In addition, yes, Johan Erik Carlson who was head of The Swedish Health Authority – Folkhälsomyndigheten and also a infectious diseases specialist did provide political backing. Tegnell was the face of the Swedish strategy, and the person who had to face down the press every day, and then every week as the crisis unfolded. The Swedish press, even the tabloid press, is not normally given to the excesses of hysterical journalism normal in many other countries, because being emotionally-overwrought is not a good look here. And before too long, expecting blood in the water, journalists from those more attack-oriented countries showed up, and Tegnell had to face them too.
But if Carlson had decided to give him less than his full support, things would have been very different, witness that when Karin Tegmark Wisell replaced Carlson on his retirement, Nov 1, 2021 FHM stance moved a bit closer to what other nations were doing … though it is not clear how much of that is Tegmark Wisell and how much of that was the new Prime Minister.
Because that is the other big factor. The Social Democrats are not a political party like the others around here. The Social Democratic Party is the political arm of the organisation of Trade Unions. As a result it has had a much harder time abandoning the union membership in order to become the party of Liberal Bankers. When the corona crisis hit, the elected PM was Stefan Löfven, who was a welder, who became active in his local trade union, and largely on his skills as a negotiator rose through the ranks and into government until he ended up on top.
You aren’t going to get him to sign off on corona restrictions that hammer the working class unless the alternative was killing the working class.
However the Social Democrats have their own internal problems about keeping the party together, and keeping their alliances with the Greens and the Left (former communist) party, and it all blew up in the end of 2021 (not over corona, because the policy was already looking better and better by that point), and on the 30th of November he resigned, and for our sins we got Magdalena Andersson as PM. She’s an economist, and the former finance minister, and another WEF young leader — i.e. a liberal banker sort.
And as soon as she got to be leader the message got a lot more like ‘we are preparing for catastrophe’ while we all scratched our heads and said ‘ah, but the hospitals aren’t reporting being overworked, and we have lots of vacant ICUs, and ah, what catastrophe?’
So lots of us think that had we had the misfortune to have her as PM when the crisis started we too would have had lockdowns and masks and the works. She says no, and that she stands by the independence of the Agencies.
Let’s hope we don’t get to find out.

Last edited 1 year ago by Laura Creighton
Bruno Lucy
Bruno Lucy
1 year ago

Laura….everyone thinks Swedes are just boring plodding northerners and do what they’re told. My opinion is however that try to touch basic liberties and you’ll be very very sorry. The parliamentary report that also criticised the way the crisis was managed starts with :
There were no reasons to limit civil liberties…..etc ….etc.
If that is not staying cool under fire…..then what is. I think Swedes are much more aware of these value under this aloofness while the French, while promising a bloody revolution every time they’re not happy…..which is often……let themselves be locked having to sign themselves a permit to go shopping, permits that if not filled out properly was warranting you 135 Eur fine.
Try to pull that one out in Sweden !!
Like I said, I spent 3 months in the country while the rest of the world was going crazy and if they saved their children, they also saved my sanity. There is no way I would have gone being locked up 2 months in my apartment without sustaining some scars. So gratitude and affection are both generously given.

Laura Creighton
Laura Creighton
1 year ago
Reply to  Bruno Lucy

Come back and visit some time soon!

Last edited 1 year ago by Laura Creighton
Bruno Lucy
Bruno Lucy
1 year ago

Every summer and winter Laura :))

David Giles
David Giles
1 year ago

A question I pose NOW to lockdown jawks is why exactly we closed sxhools in 2020. Usually the is a momentary look of alarm followed by, usually, a reference to kids being spreaders. That’s actually the better answer; the alternative is to spout self-evident nonsense about kids being in danger from Covid.

However, the horror, the disgust in response to my follow-up: “So we sacrificed the kids for our own benefit?” is a joy to behold. If the conversation isn’t forceably stopped, I am at least usually told what a disgusting suggestion I’ve made or what a thoroughly unpleasant person I am. They never, EVER tell me I’m wrong.

Andrew Horsman
Andrew Horsman
1 year ago
Reply to  David Giles

Right. When I say things like that I get blinking, startled, incomprehension, and something like “well, we had to do something because people were dying … what else could we have done?”. The answer: nothing. We should have done absolutely nothing. And more and more people well know it.

But just look at the cruelty and abuse inflicted on little Japanese primary schoolchildren by the reprehensible, cowardly, delusional “adults” who are supposed to look after them: no talking or *even looking at each other* at lunch for two years, and masks on even in PE classes in the heat of the summer. Just vile. I don’t understand anyone who isn’t utterly morally outraged by it. And yet that champion of the underdog the Guardian reports it totally straight with a sickening image of the child abuse in action, and quoting a crazy mother who wants her innocent little children to continue to suffer. It is enough to make one weep, and pray for the adults everywhere to grow a pair, get back in the room, and follow Sweden’s lead and start with the demolition of all of this nonsense, and fast.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/17/japanese-children-allowed-to-talk-again-over-lunch-as-covid-cases-fall

Robin Daly
Robin Daly
1 year ago

Not to mention that if Sweden hadn’t done this and gone it alone, we’d never have had a counter narrative to “the madness” and that dreadful Imperial man, whose name I can’t bring myself to type. Sweden’s role in providing another way, may have saved us all in ways we can’t yet imagine.

Laura Creighton
Laura Creighton
1 year ago
Reply to  Robin Daly

Before all of this happened I filed ‘global fascist conspiracy to destroy democratic norms’ in the same mental pigeonhole I put ‘anti-Semitic rants about the secret protocols of the Elders of Zion’, Aleister Crowley’s corpus, certain Marxist thinking, and the writing of some who read the The Illuminatus! Trilogy , thought it was serious, and ended up as true believers.
Now I am not so sure. Over covid, the political parties who have been promoting ‘diversity’ for decades became exposed as being interested in diversity-of-pigmentation only. Once they saw a sincere diversity in covid response they were quick to show up with the pitchforks and hot tar.
Could we have simply fallen into such an abyss of groupthink by accident? Or has somebody been pulling the strings?

Jim Stanton
Jim Stanton
1 year ago

Someone has been pulling the strings for quite some time.

J Bryant
J Bryant
1 year ago

Anders Tegnell is one of my heroes. I just read he quit his job in Sweden this March to take up a position with the WHO. I wonder what are the politics behind that job offer? I would have thought he’d be the fox in the henhouse.

Laura Creighton
Laura Creighton
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

He didn’t get the job.
https://www.thelocal.se/20220325/did-swedens-state-epidemiologist-really-get-a-big-job-at-the-who/
https://www.thelocal.se/20220420/swedens-former-state-epidemiologist-turned-down-for-who-job/
The reason given is that Sweden was asked to provide several candidates for the job, but they only supplied one, and that was unacceptable. But there aren’t that many of us who believe this. The thing to recall is that the WHO is not a monolithic, utterly corrupt institution, rotten from top to bottom. In particular, Johan Giesecke is still there, and in the middle of the pandemic, the WHO had a fierce internal battle and in September 2020 he was named vice-chair of STAG-IH, the Strategic and Technical Advisory Group for Infectious Hazards. This was an indication that the people in the WHO who are still interested in health still have power in the organisation. But that Tegnell’s appointment never materialised is an indication that ‘no unofficial sons of Giesecke are wanted here’ has pretty strong backing in the organisation, too.

Last edited 1 year ago by Laura Creighton
Iris C
Iris C
1 year ago

If only debate in the UK had been allowed on the subject, the powers-that-be might have been more pragmatic in their decision-making. For example, the government ignored the Sunday Times letter which had 700 medically qualified signatories and the press found more sensation in keeping the tension up rather than trying to find truth by debate.
Unfortunately debate is also denied when it comes to climate change. Over-population (and everything associated with it) is a major contributory factor….also concreting over the land reflects heat and produces water run-off, to swell gutters, rivers and increase sea-levels but neither is considered relevant. Burning fossil fuels seems to be the only cause of climate warming and although we must look to producing as much green energy as possible, the idea that it will ever be sufficient for the ever-increasing demand for electricity to power mobile phone, computers and other tech devices as well as heating houses and running our transport network is, to my mind, wishful thinking. .

Archibald Leach
Archibald Leach
1 year ago

Surely Sweden is the most wonderful country in the world!
*It invented the Nobel Prize.
*It saved children from stupid lockdown
*It kept out of WW2
– But why on earth does it think joining NATO is a smart move?

Last edited 1 year ago by Archibald Leach
Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago

Perhaps because it’s just witnessed Russia carve off large sections of Ukrainian territory in a completely unprovoked invasion (after the same thing happened to Georgia) and they’re concerned that if they don’t align themselves with NATO then the same could happen to Sweden?

Josiah Pinkerton
Josiah Pinkerton
1 year ago

The Soviets bombed a Swedish city in ww2 unprovoked so I’d be wary too…

Magnus Back
Magnus Back
1 year ago

The latin quote is from Axel Oxenstierna, 1583-1654. One of the most brilliant Swedes ever.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Axel-Greve-Oxenstierna-af-Sodermore