He’s hardly a Marxist (as his history as a Jesuit here in Buenos Aires shows). He is a Corporativist along the line of the “Social Doctrine” Encyclicals dating from Leo XIII in 1890. This line of encyclicals was meant to combat Marxist unions back then. It later was used by Mussolini (who was not Marxist, I believe). Grassi was not under Bergoglio’s powers, since Bergoglio was bishop of Buenos Aires and Grassi was outside his diocese.
Bergoglio is loved in Argentina (though obviously not by all). He doesn’t come home because his visit would be politically used by the Kirchner government (some of whom he likes, others no). But his visit would be destructive.
The question of sexual matters: Bergoglio was opposed to homosexuality, but not to homosexuals (hate the sin, but love the sinner). As bishop of Buenos Aires he politically opposed generalized legislation on abortion (though of course he accepted the principal of double effect, where one had to choose between the life of the mother or that of the unborn child).
In general, it’s a hard time to be pope. I too have been critical of him. But in the Church issues are solved over the long run. It is base on Scripture and Tradition (not just traditions, nor short term fads). Time will tell
Mussolini was not a Marxist; but he was a hard-left Socialist in the earlier part of his career when he directed and wrote for the “Avanti!” newspaper pre-WWI.
And how exactly is being a “hard left Socialist” not being a Marxist? Not a Commie. Ok, kinda. Both are supposedly stages of the bullshit dialectic. El Duce’s dying words – “Socialism forever”. Ka-bang.
But as an ex-Jesuit I do know. He had problems with fellow Jesuits (a well-known story here in Buenos Aires). I was of the theology of liberation (but in Peru). He was (and is) opposed.
Thomas Scheetz
I hope you are right Andrew. This pope disgust me. He is so wrong on a lot of levels and I pray that the Holy Spirit send us a better one. I don’t know why Francis was elected and it wasn’t the first time humans have denied the Spirit a good person. But I have faith God will undo all the misery and angst this terrible pope has done.
Not being attached to any kind of organised religion, I cant get too excited about the church’s internal politics. But I was shocked by the Pope straying into covid vaccine territory. He’s obviously qualified to speak on ethical matters but the ethics of getting vaccinated are trumped by scientific considerations in the first instance. You need to weigh up evidence of benefits to yourself, to others and also evidence of risk of being harmed and possible consequences. Given that the establishment has been criminally concealing anything that indicates ineffectiveness and harms, it’s been impossible to make an informed choice. If he thinks it’s his place to be making that decision for us I’m afraid he loses all credibility on that alone. It leaves me wondering what the connection between the Vatican and the World Economic Forum is. And if there are then they don’t get to pontificate to ordinary people on anything.
The ethical question regarding the vaccine came from the way it was created, in that it was formed from stem cells removed from aborted pheatus’ . There was a large debate and confusion amongst the faithful whether this meant it was appropriate to take the vaccine or was it condoning and accepting “sin”. The Australian Bishops were very proactive in leading the way in the public debate. The statements from the Vatican were aimed at providing assurance to “go ahead if you want to”. The alternative may have been many millions of people making the choice of vaccinate or not, without an informed perspective both from a scientific standpoint and an ethical and moral perspective.
Dear Wondering: Steve Bannon’s WarRoom show or Canon212.com are good starting points to explore the Vatican’s deep connections to the New World Order, Great Reset, etc. Hint: The dudes running the show in Rome are pagan, commie queers apeing Catholicism in order to destroy it. Really.
I suppose believing in nonsensical conspiracy theories as you do is not that far from Catholicism.
Sue Sims
1 year ago
Well, if the fraudulence of that old chestnut* wasn’t already obvious, it would be clear from the horrible Latin grammar in your quotation (where do these people get their apocryphal information from?). ‘He has testicles’ would be ‘Testiculos habet’ (a monorchid pope would presumably evoke the cry ‘Testiculum habet!’)
*There isn’t a reputable historian in the entire world who believes the Pope Joan legend or that there was ever an ‘ancient ceremony’ such as you describe.
Thank you.
Had Ms Sue Sims not been such a pedant I was going to continue with the amusing tale of the post mortem trial of the petrifying corpse of Pope Formosus, almost a contemporary of the mythical Pope Joan of Bridport, Dorset herself.
Alternatively we might have discussed the whereabouts of the eighteen foreskins of Christ, the last one spotted as recently as 1968, but that will have to wait for another day.
You mean archconservative Catholics hate Pope Francis. If Pope Francis hates archconservative Catholics then good for him.
Martin Johnson
1 year ago
Everything I have read or heard about Francis is consistent with him stacking the deck for an ideological successor. He was elected in a corrupt process and will go out in similar fashion. And covering for pedos is only part of it, in Argentina and then in Rome.
Gordon Arta
1 year ago
Doesn’t god get a say in what the Catholic Church believes?
Lol!! Yes, indeed, the breathtaking hypocrisy of a church dictating to its leader. Move over, God – we know better than You, says the unrecalcitrant sinner posing as saint. A reworking of the phrase ‘thinking God’s thoughts after Him’. Not good form.
Those countless schoolboys at my and the other Catholic public schools, molested by gay monks will have a view on this, and I thank God that my faith is strong enough that it has remained in place despite the widespread revelations…. Women and married priests would help to solve the problem: frankly I find the Church’s slavish worshipping of the sandaloid eco fascists nearly as bad… OK… worse!
All closed organisations of men are or can be tricky – before I was a woman priest , (church of England,) I spent 20 years as a probation officer, 5 of them working with sex offenders.
And then went on in the Anglican Church which as we Catholics know, lacks the Real Presence.
Barbara Sahlstrom
1 year ago
Thanks for sharing this. As always, very informative beyond the usual cautious comments offered by many other commentators.
Personally, I would love to see Cardinal Sarah as the next Pope. A very saintly man. Cardinal Raymond Burke, a very courageous and good ma man, is another favourite. But most probably not a choice since he is American.
Cardinal Erdö is a very good and faithful man as well.
Cardinal Zuppi is definitely not my cup of tea. He has been too pro homosexual, in my view.
Thank you and God bless!
I think Damian Thompson needs to stop sitting on the fence and tell us what he really thinks
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago
That picture…
He looks every inch an uber-Don…
Marty Martins
1 year ago
Contrary to what the author purports, McElroy is a bishop NOT an archbishop.
dan schnittker
1 year ago
Mr. Thompson is to be commended for hitting the high points like a good reporter. I wish he were not the exception. But he missed one “minor” detail. Bergoglio is not the pope. He has never been the pope. Benedict’s partial resignation was and is invalid. Benedict XVI is the pope. All acts, etc. of Bergoglio are null and void. Start there.
Robert Eagle
1 year ago
Surely that should be “testiculos habet”? Or do popes, like the late Fuhrer, only have one?
Yes, correct, slovenly editing, guilty as charged.
Additionally Ms Sue Sims has very kindly preempted you with:
‘testiculum habet’ to cover Adolph’s alleged deficiency.
John O'Toole
1 year ago
DT writes really interesting articles + podcasts but I take what he says with a ‘pinch of salt’.
Brian Gould
1 year ago
In Damian Thompson’s article, what is this sentence supposed to mean? It looks to me like a mistake.
Also, he’s holding the consistory three months ahead of schedule.
Is there such a thing as a “schedule” for holding consistories? I don’t think so. This will be the eighth consistory of the present pontificate. Of the previous seven, two were held in February (2014 and 2015), two in June (2017 and 2018), one in October (2019), and two in November (2016 and 2020).
Maybe Damian Thompson meant to write “The consistory was announced three months in advance”, which is indeed unusual. In those earlier cases, Pope Francis announced them only about a month in advance, as far as I can recall without hunting through Vatican Press Office files.
E. L. Herndon
1 year ago
God works in mysterious ways. Leaving the Bishop of San Francisco (Cordileone) where he is needed, and appreciated, was a kindness, whereas the more polittical Bishop of Los Angeles will now have to swim with the sharks in the big league stained glass jungle, whence very few emerge “unspotted from the world”.
Jacques Dumon
1 year ago
I was shocked with his encyclical “Laudato Si”: The Pope’s infallibility is limited to (catholic) Faith and Morals issues. The job he was elected for is to save souls, not to save the planet. End period.
If you had the slightest idea of Catholic theology you’d know that the Pope has to make an ‘ex cathedra’ statement for it to be infallible, which he did NOT do for Laudato Si. As far as I am aware there have only been two ‘ex cathedra’ statements in the history of the church, I could be wrong but I do know Laudato Si was not one.
Frances Mann
1 year ago
I recommend the documentary film by Wim Wenders called Pope Francis a Man of his Word to learn about Pope Francis. It can be seen on Youtube
Last edited 1 year ago by Frances Mann
Oliver Nicholson
1 year ago
Perhaps the new wording would put ‘testiculos’ into the accusative and possibly even the plural ?
I’ll settle for the next Pope being a Catholic instead of an apostate Marxist.
I’m not sure that he’s an apostate Marxist – still signed up!
He’s hardly a Marxist (as his history as a Jesuit here in Buenos Aires shows). He is a Corporativist along the line of the “Social Doctrine” Encyclicals dating from Leo XIII in 1890. This line of encyclicals was meant to combat Marxist unions back then. It later was used by Mussolini (who was not Marxist, I believe). Grassi was not under Bergoglio’s powers, since Bergoglio was bishop of Buenos Aires and Grassi was outside his diocese.
Bergoglio is loved in Argentina (though obviously not by all). He doesn’t come home because his visit would be politically used by the Kirchner government (some of whom he likes, others no). But his visit would be destructive.
The question of sexual matters: Bergoglio was opposed to homosexuality, but not to homosexuals (hate the sin, but love the sinner). As bishop of Buenos Aires he politically opposed generalized legislation on abortion (though of course he accepted the principal of double effect, where one had to choose between the life of the mother or that of the unborn child).
In general, it’s a hard time to be pope. I too have been critical of him. But in the Church issues are solved over the long run. It is base on Scripture and Tradition (not just traditions, nor short term fads). Time will tell
Mussolini was a marxist.
He was a Marxist.
Mussolini was not a Marxist; but he was a hard-left Socialist in the earlier part of his career when he directed and wrote for the “Avanti!” newspaper pre-WWI.
And how exactly is being a “hard left Socialist” not being a Marxist? Not a Commie. Ok, kinda. Both are supposedly stages of the bullshit dialectic. El Duce’s dying words – “Socialism forever”. Ka-bang.
I don’t know about “history as a Jesuit” speaking to whether he was a Marxist or not. On the whole, I think not.
But as an ex-Jesuit I do know. He had problems with fellow Jesuits (a well-known story here in Buenos Aires). I was of the theology of liberation (but in Peru). He was (and is) opposed.
Thomas Scheetz
I hope you are right Andrew. This pope disgust me. He is so wrong on a lot of levels and I pray that the Holy Spirit send us a better one. I don’t know why Francis was elected and it wasn’t the first time humans have denied the Spirit a good person. But I have faith God will undo all the misery and angst this terrible pope has done.
Where is Cardinal Sarah when we need him?
If you had read the book you would have been able to see what Benedict’s contribution was. Roughly 1/3.
Benedict’s text was tricked out by Sarah as a preface. Subsequently, Benedict XVI. distanced himself from the book.
Where is Cardinal Sin for that matter?
Yes he did exist. he was Arch bishop of Manilla
Hopefully in a very demonic hell.
Not being attached to any kind of organised religion, I cant get too excited about the church’s internal politics. But I was shocked by the Pope straying into covid vaccine territory. He’s obviously qualified to speak on ethical matters but the ethics of getting vaccinated are trumped by scientific considerations in the first instance. You need to weigh up evidence of benefits to yourself, to others and also evidence of risk of being harmed and possible consequences. Given that the establishment has been criminally concealing anything that indicates ineffectiveness and harms, it’s been impossible to make an informed choice. If he thinks it’s his place to be making that decision for us I’m afraid he loses all credibility on that alone. It leaves me wondering what the connection between the Vatican and the World Economic Forum is. And if there are then they don’t get to pontificate to ordinary people on anything.
The ethical question regarding the vaccine came from the way it was created, in that it was formed from stem cells removed from aborted pheatus’ . There was a large debate and confusion amongst the faithful whether this meant it was appropriate to take the vaccine or was it condoning and accepting “sin”. The Australian Bishops were very proactive in leading the way in the public debate. The statements from the Vatican were aimed at providing assurance to “go ahead if you want to”. The alternative may have been many millions of people making the choice of vaccinate or not, without an informed perspective both from a scientific standpoint and an ethical and moral perspective.
Dear Wondering: Steve Bannon’s WarRoom show or Canon212.com are good starting points to explore the Vatican’s deep connections to the New World Order, Great Reset, etc. Hint: The dudes running the show in Rome are pagan, commie queers apeing Catholicism in order to destroy it. Really.
I suppose believing in nonsensical conspiracy theories as you do is not that far from Catholicism.
Well, if the fraudulence of that old chestnut* wasn’t already obvious, it would be clear from the horrible Latin grammar in your quotation (where do these people get their apocryphal information from?). ‘He has testicles’ would be ‘Testiculos habet’ (a monorchid pope would presumably evoke the cry ‘Testiculum habet!’)
*There isn’t a reputable historian in the entire world who believes the Pope Joan legend or that there was ever an ‘ancient ceremony’ such as you describe.
Don’t quibble about a latin mispelling. These legends are fun and lighten the dark impression this article and assorted comments give.
Thank you.
Had Ms Sue Sims not been such a pedant I was going to continue with the amusing tale of the post mortem trial of the petrifying corpse of Pope Formosus, almost a contemporary of the mythical Pope Joan of Bridport, Dorset herself.
Alternatively we might have discussed the whereabouts of the eighteen foreskins of Christ, the last one spotted as recently as 1968, but that will have to wait for another day.
Good to see that you’ve risen well above the humourless gainsayers. Thank you.
Just waiting for the res-erection, no doubt
Rather disappointed that as at 17.18 BST I’ve only managed a meagre 19 ‘thumbs down’, I anticipated at least 25.
Congratulations, you’ve made it! (as at 22.47 BST)
Thanks, I missed it! I was already ‘tucked up’ with my Ovaltine.
Now at 21.22 BST+1 I see it’s up to a simply splendid 34!
Good old ‘God Botherers’ always rise to the bait.
The whole article could be summed up in one sentence: ‘The author does not like Pope Francis’.
I think it’s more “Pope Francis hates Catholics”.
You mean archconservative Catholics hate Pope Francis. If Pope Francis hates archconservative Catholics then good for him.
Everything I have read or heard about Francis is consistent with him stacking the deck for an ideological successor. He was elected in a corrupt process and will go out in similar fashion. And covering for pedos is only part of it, in Argentina and then in Rome.
Doesn’t god get a say in what the Catholic Church believes?
‘fraid not. In fact – au contraire! – the Catholic Church says what God believes!
Glad to hear god believes something, and is therefore open to alternative ideas.
Lol!! Yes, indeed, the breathtaking hypocrisy of a church dictating to its leader. Move over, God – we know better than You, says the unrecalcitrant sinner posing as saint. A reworking of the phrase ‘thinking God’s thoughts after Him’. Not good form.
Perhaps then you are out of your milieu in the Catholic Church.
Used to but not since Benedict stepped down.
Those countless schoolboys at my and the other Catholic public schools, molested by gay monks will have a view on this, and I thank God that my faith is strong enough that it has remained in place despite the widespread revelations…. Women and married priests would help to solve the problem: frankly I find the Church’s slavish worshipping of the sandaloid eco fascists nearly as bad… OK… worse!
Are you an Old Dowegian by any chance?
All closed organisations of men are or can be tricky – before I was a woman priest , (church of England,) I spent 20 years as a probation officer, 5 of them working with sex offenders.
And then went on in the Anglican Church which as we Catholics know, lacks the Real Presence.
Thanks for sharing this. As always, very informative beyond the usual cautious comments offered by many other commentators.
Personally, I would love to see Cardinal Sarah as the next Pope. A very saintly man. Cardinal Raymond Burke, a very courageous and good ma man, is another favourite. But most probably not a choice since he is American.
Cardinal Erdö is a very good and faithful man as well.
Cardinal Zuppi is definitely not my cup of tea. He has been too pro homosexual, in my view.
Thank you and God bless!
God help us, Sarah belongs in the flames of hell, not in the Vatican.
This man is the reason I never converted to Catholicism.
I’m sure you are the reason many converted to Catholicism.
I hope so. Time to kill the old joke ‘is the pope a catholic?’
It’s actually the bear, who’s Catholic.
“Does the pope sh*t in the woods?”?
I think Damian Thompson needs to stop sitting on the fence and tell us what he really thinks
That picture…
He looks every inch an uber-Don…
Contrary to what the author purports, McElroy is a bishop NOT an archbishop.
Mr. Thompson is to be commended for hitting the high points like a good reporter. I wish he were not the exception. But he missed one “minor” detail. Bergoglio is not the pope. He has never been the pope. Benedict’s partial resignation was and is invalid. Benedict XVI is the pope. All acts, etc. of Bergoglio are null and void. Start there.
Surely that should be “testiculos habet”? Or do popes, like the late Fuhrer, only have one?
Yes, correct, slovenly editing, guilty as charged.
Additionally Ms Sue Sims has very kindly preempted you with:
‘testiculum habet’ to cover Adolph’s alleged deficiency.
DT writes really interesting articles + podcasts but I take what he says with a ‘pinch of salt’.
In Damian Thompson’s article, what is this sentence supposed to mean? It looks to me like a mistake.
Is there such a thing as a “schedule” for holding consistories? I don’t think so. This will be the eighth consistory of the present pontificate. Of the previous seven, two were held in February (2014 and 2015), two in June (2017 and 2018), one in October (2019), and two in November (2016 and 2020).
Maybe Damian Thompson meant to write “The consistory was announced three months in advance”, which is indeed unusual. In those earlier cases, Pope Francis announced them only about a month in advance, as far as I can recall without hunting through Vatican Press Office files.
God works in mysterious ways. Leaving the Bishop of San Francisco (Cordileone) where he is needed, and appreciated, was a kindness, whereas the more polittical Bishop of Los Angeles will now have to swim with the sharks in the big league stained glass jungle, whence very few emerge “unspotted from the world”.
I was shocked with his encyclical “Laudato Si”: The Pope’s infallibility is limited to (catholic) Faith and Morals issues. The job he was elected for is to save souls, not to save the planet. End period.
If you had the slightest idea of Catholic theology you’d know that the Pope has to make an ‘ex cathedra’ statement for it to be infallible, which he did NOT do for Laudato Si. As far as I am aware there have only been two ‘ex cathedra’ statements in the history of the church, I could be wrong but I do know Laudato Si was not one.
I recommend the documentary film by Wim Wenders called Pope Francis a Man of his Word to learn about Pope Francis. It can be seen on Youtube
Perhaps the new wording would put ‘testiculos’ into the accusative and possibly even the plural ?
Indeed!
Why has the jocular discussion about the mythical 9th century Pope Joan been expunged, may I ask?
If you want jokes, mate, keep away from discussions about religion and politics. The denizens deplore them.