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N Forster
N Forster
7 months ago

” Later, the allegations grew: some claimed Kate had caused trans students to consider suicide.”
Anyone who contemplates or considers suicide for any reason should be referred to mental health services. Especially if the “trigger” for such thoughts are hearing views they find disagreeable.
Likewise for anyone who hints at suicide and tries to use it as a lever to control others’ actions speech or thoughts. They too need the help of a mental health professional.
“Kate” caused nothing. If the allegation was true, that trans students contemplated suicide in reaction to speech they did not like, the blame lays in their own mental formations. They caused the suicidal thoughts. Not the speech itself.
“Kate” was not, is not and never will be responsible for the reactions of others. They are victims of their own mental formations.

Last edited 7 months ago by N Forster
Lindsay S
Lindsay S
7 months ago
Reply to  N Forster

Sadly the more the mental health and suicide threats are abused, the more numb society will become to it and the harder it will be for people with genuine problems. I’m sure there is a well known story about a boy crying wolf that has a lesson for these kids to learn.

Last edited 7 months ago by Lindsay Snoman
N Forster
N Forster
7 months ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

It does seem that a popular tool used to support the Sophistry of GenderTheory is histrionics.

Simon White
Simon White
7 months ago
Reply to  Lindsay S

I know that story. It’s followed by the one about a naked emperor.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
7 months ago
Reply to  N Forster

These days, having “mental health issues” is a cross between a badge of honour and a get out of jail free card. See Me-again for a master class on how to deploy it.

Nunya Business
Nunya Business
7 months ago
Reply to  N Forster

I am far enough gone that when someone threatens suicide my response is summed as:
“k”.

R Wright
R Wright
7 months ago
Reply to  Nunya Business

I call a doctor friend I know and get them sectioned

Tim Knight
Tim Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  R Wright

Happen often does it?

JP Martin
JP Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  N Forster

The dramatic girls who cry and threaten suicide are the real bullies. This is such a stale tactic and it distracts attention from other students who have more pressing needs. It’s like the crazy girlfriend/boyfriend who “will kill myself if you leave them” but calms down the minute they get what they want. The scandal is that no one stands up to them so they become more emotionally deregulated and their demands become more extravagant.

N Forster
N Forster
7 months ago
Reply to  JP Martin

Yep, controlling behaviour. People are very unwise to give in to it. Many fail to even recognise it.

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
7 months ago
Reply to  JP Martin

And the ‘trans boy’ who ran out of the classroom crying because of hurt feelings was behaving in a stereotypically female way . Perhaps she should reevaluate her gender identity

harry storm
harry storm
7 months ago
Reply to  Alan Osband

Much the same as how “female” trans activists abuse and even physically threaten their critics. Very stereotypical masculine behaviour.

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
7 months ago
Reply to  N Forster

If the student who ‘ran out of the room crying’ is a trans student who feels herself to be a boy then that seems strangely contradictory behaviour .
Perhaps this all girls school has a policy of admitting trans girls , but her tears still aren’t the fault of Kate .

Last edited 7 months ago by Alan Osband
Helen Murray
Helen Murray
7 months ago
Reply to  N Forster

It’s called emotional blackmail.

Ddwieland
Ddwieland
7 months ago
Reply to  N Forster

It’s reasonable to recommend mental health services for anyone expressing suicidal thoughts — until one recalls that many psychologists and their professional bodies have joined the radical trans activists in their views. It seems that all bets are off on appropriate trans-related treatment these days.

James Dreyfus
James Dreyfus
7 months ago

It’s just awful to read this. This is nationwide. Two members of my family (12 & 16) are suffering enormously because of this constant judgment & bullying. Neither really understand what it all means, but it certainly does bring out the worst in teenagers, especially on social media. Self harming, self loathing, hysterical crying, poor self image…all damage done by this insidious intolerance of trying to get answers. As usual, Julie gets to the heart of the matter and Kate, keep strong; you have my full backing. Question everything.

Max Price
Max Price
7 months ago

Incredibly brave young woman. Good for you Kate!

Tim Knight
Tim Knight
7 months ago

Kate, you are a mature student already. And brave, articulate and right. You are also supported by untold numbers of us.

Last edited 7 months ago by Tim Knight
Richard Craven
Richard Craven
7 months ago

Owen Jones really is a despicable little sh1tweasel.

0 0
0 0
7 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I’d say bullying narcissist!

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
7 months ago
Reply to  0 0

Who unable to come to terms with the fact that he is homosexual has chosen to wreak revenge on the world

ARNAUD ALMARIC
ARNAUD ALMARIC
7 months ago

He was a ‘disciple’ of the the late, loathsome Eric Hobsbawm.

Liam B
Liam B
7 months ago

Wreak revenge on women I’d say.

Melissa Martin
Melissa Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Back in the day we would have called him a Vicious Queen. The harm he is doing to women is a feature not a bug.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
7 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Not a helpful comment

Andrew Horsman
Andrew Horsman
7 months ago

“The further the society drifts from the truth, the more it hates those who speak it.”

Here’s to hoping some of those girls who had been Kate’s friends, as they mature into adulthood, will come to look back with regret and sadness at what they did to Kate and reach out to her to apologise and to try and make amends.

More broadly there needs to be many more two way, respectful conversations across this divide, such as the one that Kate attempted but was not allowed to have with the visitor to her school. If we go on shouting at each other or allowing the mob to rule out rational debate we’ll get nowhere.

Louise Carrigg
Louise Carrigg
7 months ago

I’m really proud of the way Kate conducted herself during that assault on her credibilty. The insanity that has emerged keeps getting more unhinged. The terror she must have felt when surrounded by her ‘peers’ would have unnerved even the most seasoned protestor. She is strong young woman and I hope she knows that she is well supported by the truth tellers.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
7 months ago

If “Kate” is reading this, she needs to know that with her intellect and temperament, not only will she come through this awful episode in her young life, but will in time look back on it with some pride. Any of us who’ve found ourselves swimming against the tide early on know how it brings with it an assurance that there’s little that can harm us in future.
I’d be interested to know who the peer was, and how they got their peerage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves and quite clearly find it impossible to understand why their ideas might be challenged. (All ideas should be challenged!) As for her school peers; well, it’s just the age-old “Lord Of The Flies” instinct at play. As already mentioned, hopefully a few of them might develop enough backbone to seek out “Kate” and apologise at some point.

Andy Martin
Andy Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Baroness Hunt of Bethnal Green?
Just a guess.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
7 months ago

Hello, Kate.
My son is a trans man and I support you 100%.
You are a hero.
Those bullies and the lunatics who indoctrinated them are not helpful to my son or to society in general.
Trans men are very different from genetic men, just as trans women are very different from genetic women. But we’re not allowed to say that without being accused of “literal violence”.
My suspicion is that actual sex dysphoria is rare and that it is a neurological disorder. The only treatment for it is palliative care that requires hormones and surgery to make the body appear as much like the opposite sex as possible.
This does not mean that my son is “really” a man; it means he is a genetic female with sex dysphoria who requires medical treatment to feel comfortable in his body. In other words, my son is a trans man, not a man.
I love my son more than I love anyone else in the universe, but I would be accused of “hating” him and denying his existence if I spoke the truth about his life and his condition.
My son is a very kind human being, and he would NEVER endorse the vicious bullying that you have endured. Had he been there, he would have stood up for you. He has always taken a stand on behalf of the vulnerable.
My son also thinks the attacks on JK Rowling are insane, and he has no need to erase female reproductive reality – his own included – to feel good about himself.
Please don’t think that all trans people are like the perverts and abusers you see online.
Most trans people who are like my son are too terrified to express themselves on social media – they are attacked as viciously as you were.
You are on the right side of history Kate.
You stand with compassion and reality and truth.
Sex dysphoria is a (probably) neurological disorder that is trivialized and made a mockery of by trans trenders online, and by your cruel classmates.
One day very soon, if not already, you will look back and feel proud of your courage and integrity.
Sending hugs and support!

Tricia Durdey
Tricia Durdey
7 months ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Brilliant piece. So refreshing and uplifting to read. Thank you.

Damian Mooney
Damian Mooney
7 months ago

I am afraid most Universities are rotten with this ideology also. Choose your discipline and University carefully. If you can, join the Newman Society. I say this as an academic.

Alan Groff
Alan Groff
7 months ago

The crowd spirit is all-powerful. It’s a real power on earth because it can conquer even wise intellectuals. Follow the crowd – what else may they say? If I have the same enemy you have, I am one of yours. We can see what the incentives are. I commend Kate for not listening to these voices, however pious. How do we come to all have the ideas of our time? Not so many centuries ago, everybody automatically believed in heteronomy. It didn’t mean much. Today automatically, no one may believe in heteronomy. But it’s purely a mob phenomenon. It’s not like there are powerful scientific arguments. These students don’t know what they’re doing – they’re unconscious of what they are really doing. They just behave like everybody else. 

Richard M
Richard M
7 months ago

Keep swimming upstream Kate, it’ll be worth it – for everyone.

Betsy MacKinnon
Betsy MacKinnon
7 months ago

Why did the school invite the horrible peer with outragous views that caused so much harm? Malignant mischief?

Sue Sims
Sue Sims
7 months ago

The most significant part of this interview is Kate’s comment on the necessity of ‘external social validation’: she’s hit the nail on the head there. This is the reason that so many ‘trans’ people, whether male or female, are so sensitive to even the remotest suspicion of scepticism: they are aware at some level that biological reality is, well, real: that, however much they protest, they are not the sex they desperately want to be. Threats of suicide aren’t necessarily empty, and accusations of ‘harm’ can be quite sincere: they rely on others’ perception to compensate for their own lack of certainty. That’s why even ‘misgendering’ via unwanted pronouns or honorifics (‘Sir’ instead of ‘Ma’am’ or vice versa) can be traumatic for them: it implies that they haven’t convinced at least one onlooker, and that feels like a slap in the face.
I’m not, of course, affirming their delusion* in any way – just trying to understand why they might feel this way. In Othello, Iago tells the audience that ‘Trifles light as air / Are to the jealous confirmations strong / As proofs of Holy Writ’, and the ‘trans’ person is jealous of his / her assumed identify.
*Kate makes a distiniction between the two types of ‘trans’ people, and if she’s right, the other type isn’t exactly deluded, but suffering “profound psychological distress” which may be alleviated to some extent by medical intervention. I’m not sure whether this is correct, but readers of Unherd have all seen articles by Debbie Hayton which argue something similar.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
7 months ago
Reply to  Sue Sims

Bravo!

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
7 months ago
Reply to  Sue Sims

I was watching a YouTube podcast by Matt Walsh who has produced a film called “What is a Woman”(I refuse to pay to watch it so haven’t seen it). He raises the same observation regarding social validation and seems to take a hard line against being coerced into behaving and talking that goes against the precepts of his worldview – essentially, having to lie. I think he takes a more pragmatic negotiated position based on what is being asked of him and what the social circumstances are.

Tim Knight
Tim Knight
7 months ago

Why do you refuse to pay to watch it? No one is making you pay for it. Presumably it cost him money to make. And if you value his content then paying for it seems reasonable.

N Forster
N Forster
7 months ago
Reply to  Sue Sims

The trauma felt by the “misgenedered” may be real, but that does not mean it has not been induced through ideology. Regardless, the answer remains the same – help from a mental health expert who can teach the sufferer tools and techniques of mental development so they can cope with a life not in accordance with their perceptions and preferences.
That is preferable to insisting that everyone around them acquiesce to their demands. This helps no one. Especially them – doing that externalises their peace of mind, making all others responsible for their reactions.
I’ve said it before but it is worth repeating – one of the most important steps we take in life is taking responsibility for our own state of mind, our own reactions, actions, speech and thoughts. And learning to accept that the world owes us nothing,
Only then does the most important transition occur – from child to adult.

Last edited 7 months ago by N Forster
Dr. Gillian McIver
Dr. Gillian McIver
7 months ago

Terrible situation. The lack of care for young women in the school is frightening.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
7 months ago

Even if it was Owen Jones who said it, it would actually be useful (though impossible) to know more about the background and the other side. What did they refer to when they talk about ‘provocative history, going back five years’? Was there a background of conflicts (or bullying) between these girls so that this episode was just an excuse for the pack to turn on her, or did this arise out of nowhere only because of a single question in public (as it has done for JK Rowling and others)? It is unlikely to change my opinion much: No one deserves this kind of thing, ‘Kate’ seems remarkably understanding and considerate in her comments, and it was both commendable and brave of her to speak out instead of letting herself be bulldozed. Still, a bit more detail would have made this easier to understand.

Ashley Lennard-Kelly
Ashley Lennard-Kelly
7 months ago

Wow, this treatment of “Kate” by both the girls and the school is absolutely awful.
The dropping of the investigation is very reminiscent of a situation I had where I reported a fellow student to the school for having conversations of a very sexual nature with people much younger than him (he was 17 – the kids he was talking to were about 12 and 13). He also boasted about receiving explicit photos from these kids.
He then threatened to come to my house, he later actually turned up outside another friend’s house after they made a joke he didn’t like. He also tried to trash my reputation via social media accusing me of “screenshotting everything he said” (basically having a go at me for telling the school) of “trying to ruin him” and saying that “he hoped I died” (he also said things such as “the problem is that <name> is still alive” and “I could f*cking kill him”)
The school initially opened an investigation which was quietly dismissed after he got the psychiatrist to claim that he was suicidal and had mental health issues. Soon afterwards he quickly transitioned into a girl and is now on hormone blockers. I’ve no idea whether the school did anything privately but it’s likely nobody intervened and he’s still out there doing the same stuff as before.
Although the school didn’t open an investigation into my behaviour dating back five years, one of his friends sent an essay to all of my close friends detailing everything bad I had supposedly done since I was 12 years old! The fact that the school in this story actively participated in trying to trash Kate’s reputation just shows how complicit they were in the bullying!
So overall I’m not really surprised that this kind of blatant bullying and harassment gets swept under the rug, especially when its related to trans issues. I’m very glad that my situation all happened during lockdown so that the backlash was muted a little. I’ve no doubt if I were to accuse this guy of anything nowadays he would claim that I was transphobic.

Last edited 7 months ago by ashlennard
Bishbosh Blip
Bishbosh Blip
6 months ago

Have you tried contacting the police or the victims parents? Seems like quite a serious offense is being allowed to happen at your school which needs to be stopped.

David Simpson
David Simpson
7 months ago

Scapegoat and sacrifice come to mind. cf Rene Girard. When groups are under stress, as everyone everywhere appears to be now, finding scapegoats is a very ancient way of dealing with it.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
7 months ago

A huge problem that has built up is, while typical male “issues” such as physical aggression are rightly called out (but to the extent that all male behaviour is now labelled “toxic”)

Female aggression and bullying is not even seen as a problem, whereas in a modern context it’s far more of a threat especially for young girls – physical violence is illegal and curbed, non physical violence is facilitated by social media.

Consider whether the following is in fact more nasty, harmful and disgusting than say a bunch of bullies beating up someone:

– one of her fellow pupils ran out the room crying.
– several students talking about “transphobia”, and saying that Kate had caused them real harm.
– some claimed Kate had caused trans students to consider suicide.
– …encountered the head girl, who treated her coldly.
– Then, a number of students circled her and started calling her names: Nazi, bigot, fascist, transphobe, homophobe, racist, c**t.
– overhear her favourite teacher apologising to her fellow sixth-formers for….allowing others to be distressed by her “terrible, hateful behaviour”.
– she found her desk covered in printouts of trans flags, each emblazoned with the text: “Trans right are human rights”.

Last edited 7 months ago by Samir Iker
Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
7 months ago
Reply to  Samir Iker

I’ve noticed this trend too. As physical violence decreases, psychological violence increases. A good clue as to what is happening can be found in Arthur Miller’s ‘The Crucible’. The film version starring Winona Ryder brilliantly illustrates the kind of social contagion that can affect vengeful girls and what happens when authority figures become too frightened to stand up to them. I do wonder if the transgender movement is simply old-fashioned puritanism looking for a new home. So far it seems largely limited to English-speaking countries. I see very little evidence of this kind of group-think on the European mainland.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
7 months ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Since you centre girls in this phenomenon and if ‘social contagion’ is an intense form of imitation and mimicry, what then do you think it is about girls in English-speaking countries that makes them susceptible to this?

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
7 months ago

I’m not entirely sure. Perhaps a willingness to conform to in-group orthodoxy and the delicious feeling of self-righteousness that comes from hurting another because you believe you are good and they are bad. It’s a contemporary form of binary thinking that is playing out in the cultural wars in the UK and the US.

John Davies
John Davies
7 months ago

Very impressed with this young girl’s composure and intellect. But the article reinforces the stunning power of the media/social media to corall young people into particular behaviours and modes of thinking. How is it that teenagers, who left to their own devices will be curious, open-minded and adventurous, can be turned into a fascist hate mob who are triggered into frenzy by rational argument? The school in question should be shielding its young people from the overbearing influence of media-fuelled social pressure and encouraging them to think for themselves, and respect the right of others to do the same. Instead, like so many other institutions, it has become part of the problem, actively working with an extremist organisation to impose a contentious ideology on its primary stakeholders. This is a grievous breach of a school’s duty of care, one which government must respond to.

Caspian Prince
Caspian Prince
7 months ago

Kate is amazing.

Brian Villanueva
Brian Villanueva
7 months ago

Stories like this make me very glad we’ve home educated our children, and make me pity the many families that lack the resources to escape from such toxic environments.

In America, there would be a sexual harassment lawsuit against the school here for a hostile environment. In England, I’m not so sure. But these administrators are cowards: so obsessed with the hypothetical victims that they’re ignoring (or further denigrating) the real ones right in front of them.

Martin Johnson
Martin Johnson
7 months ago

Sad to say but this will follow her to college and beyond, some of those little Hitlers at her previous school will make sure of that.

Mike Michaels
Mike Michaels
7 months ago
Reply to  Martin Johnson

Budding Irma Greises the lot of em. Same mentality. Or maybe Red Guards.

R Wright
R Wright
7 months ago

Why are trans so pathetically emotional? Everything seems to cause them distress. Is it the gender dysphoria/mental illness aspect? Or is it just a veiled attempt to employ power against others?

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
5 months ago
Reply to  R Wright

Both, I think.

Douglas Proudfoot
Douglas Proudfoot
7 months ago

Bullying Kate, a girl with a history of extreme anorexia, is very dangerous to Kate. The ideology of transgender supremacy must be really strong for the school to ignore the danger of self harm to Kate in favor of threats by various trans girls. Societal rejection of Kate puts her at risk for relapse. This is totalitarian behavior on the part of school authorities.

By the way, does the school admit biological boys who identify as girls? If not, aren’t they hypocrites?

Kate allowing the school to remain anonymous is being much nicer than I would be. Perhaps the naming of the school would get her named in return? Mutually assured destruction?

Last edited 7 months ago by Douglas Proudfoot
Maureen Finucane
Maureen Finucane
7 months ago

What we are seeing are Communist party tactics used by school authorities to isolate people with the “wrong ideas.” Quite disgraceful that the school participated in the bullying. They should be sued.

patrick macaskie
patrick macaskie
7 months ago

The Stepfordian conformity is one of the more chilling aspects.

James Dreyfus
James Dreyfus
7 months ago

I can’t speak for others but one of my family members is using a kitchen knife in the bathroom, to cause deep wounds. She’d said ‘razor blades ..useless’. Only my experience.

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
7 months ago
Reply to  James Dreyfus

Yes, I would normally have assumed something like that.
But these days, I’m not so sure.

James Dreyfus
James Dreyfus
7 months ago

Yes, I do get your point

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
7 months ago

This is fine piece of journalism, Julie has given a chance for this person to speak for herself.

The bullying that Kate endured deeply shocked me.

Tim Knight
Tim Knight
7 months ago

In this context there are numerous ways people harm themselves. Usually it is an understandable but ultimately maladaptive way of dealing with psychological pain. In my opinion the exact details are not relevant to this article.

Last edited 7 months ago by Tim Knight
Corrie Mooney
Corrie Mooney
7 months ago

So, if the media won’t report suicides, or if suicide sites become known authorities isolate them, why are the gender theorists allowed to go on warning about transgender suicides?

trevor fitzgerald
trevor fitzgerald
7 months ago

I just can’t help looking down the slippery slope. Will they burn books next?

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
5 months ago

And then people.

Melanie Mabey
Melanie Mabey
6 months ago

I often wonder what these people would be identifying/thinking of themselves as if they were on a desert island for the rest of their lives.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
5 months ago

I don’t accept that this school can’t be named ‘for legal reasons’. Why not? Is there a Court Order? On what grounds?As a parent of a daughter, I want to know what school this is – and the world to know its name and the names of this responsible. Bedales? Roedean? Cheltenham LC? Where? Why should it, and they, enjoy anonymity and impunity? If they do, when will this stop? disgusting barbarism stop?

Last edited 5 months ago by Peter Joy
Noella chevarria
Noella chevarria
7 months ago

GDF

Last edited 7 months ago by Noella chevarria
David Bullard
David Bullard
7 months ago

My wish is that the proxy war currently restricted to Ukraine spreads to the UK. That may persuade you to finally stop pandering to this freak show and concentrate on things that really matter in this world. The sooner the better.

harry storm
harry storm
7 months ago
Reply to  David Bullard

If i were you I’d be careful what I wished for, esp. when it’s really stupid.