It looks more like a me me me movement certainly politically manipulated Observe the difference between Blasey Ford with Kavanagh and then Tara Reid and Biden , BlaseyFords own witnesses did not support her where as Tara Reid’s witnesses corroborate her account with Biden but the media is silent on Tara Reid .
Not dissimilar to the Black Republican Larry Elder during his campaign for California governor a person dressed in a gorilla costume ran after him throwing bananas at him , zero media coverage , had that been his rival political party the whole world would be shouting racism .
Me too is fundamentally flawed in the the failure to use due process and apply innocent until proven guilty . In that failure to adhere to the fundamental building blocks of our civilisation me too created a tyranny.that can only fail .
As it has unfolded many innocent men have been persecuted wrongly . This has affected the minds of men and not in the the direction of sympathy , some few women were genuine but kangaroo courts discredit even the just .
We now see the western world with a serious problem that men and women might achieve hookups but long term relationships and marriages are in terminal decline and with them the social cohesion of the western world is slipping .
The dramatic fall in marriage as the tyranny of Me Too sinks in with men not trusting women and that distrust making them more conscious of divorce courts unfairness means dramatically fewer children are being born and in western societies that have welfare systems based on ponzi tax schemes that will lmplode as the the older generations depend on the tax of the much fewer youngsters to support them and no immigrants are not going to rescue it , the rest of the world is developing and migration is ultimately going there .
So two wrongs don’t make a right , the end does not justify the means , the western world has been diminished by this medieval guilt by genitals tyranny that has ridden roughshod over the developed legal systems which are developed to perform their task with diligence to keep social cohesion .
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction , toxic Me Too and toxic feminism have been busy hating on men and demonising them , hate begets hate .
Yours is a criticism of Identity politics, a criticism I agree with 100%. But men and boys are also victims of sexual violence (usually committed by other men) so the issue of sexual violence is not strictly an issue of women’s rights, but of victim’s rights.
Little boys are far less likely to speak up about being victims of sexual abuse because boys are not “supposed” to be victims, they are “supposed” to be perpetrators.
By classifying #MeToo as strictly an anti-male women’s rights movement we are silencing men and boys (like those victimized by Michael Jackson and the Catholic Church) and making the world more dangerous for them.
#MeToo should not be seen as pro-woman/anti-man, but as pro-survivor/anti-perpetrator.
Men and boys are always getting raped by other men, and they also have a right to say #MeToo.
Boy rape has been going on in Britain for decades. I was sexually abused for nearly two years by a so called house father in an orphanage in the late fifties and I wasn’t the only one. There were lots of them around in those days and they mostly got away with it.
Thanks for your reply Penny and we agree on the Identity politics , however the Me too “movement” I think it is actually media driven and shuts men out .
When in workplaces audits of women have been carried out to establish inappropriate behaviour they mostly have not asked men .when on the few occasions they did ask men with same surveys they got same answers .
However Metoo does not represent all women and misandry is not limited to women either , men do it to . Since 2008 and the financial crisis I think the realisation of our elites was they did and still don’t know how to solve the economic problem having effectively created socialism for the corporates .
It is my my belief that Patriarchy is created by women selecting alpha males that then form groups with men at the top but some women alongside them and then women in the middle of society and men at the bottom of society throughout all history men are 99% of the executed 99% of the tortured and 99% of combat deaths , they are also the majority of slaves .
A womans life is inherently worth more than a mans she has the ability to give birth and that is the life blood of any society where as a man has no inherent value until he goes out and makes it for himself.
The men at the top are not threatened by women , rape is always illegal simply because the men at the top want to know it’s their child .Gender roles are not a moral decision they are determined by Mother Nature and the need to survive. We are decadent fools enjoying a unique period in the history of the earth where we are able to live past mere survival and shirk our roles .
Any way I digress sorry , Neo liberal order is seeking to divide and rule ahead of the next crisis that’s why all of this looney neo racism and sexism is cooked up in my opinion. I am sure that there are some well meaning metoo people and feminists but the media promotion of these is entirely misandrist and toxic with the deliberate intent of making men hate women and vice versa .
Reyhnard Srinagar is the most prolific rapist in British criminal history with 206 victims of coarse there was next to no media coverage of him no warnings to his distinct group of victims that such a danger lurked .no calls for curfews , no vigils or demonstrations . As you will have guessed by now his victims were young men . I must learn to do shorter reply’s . https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-55276209
Thanks for making me think today. The line about corporate socialism bears some reflection. Also your comment on the creation of the patriarchy rings true to me.
“Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women… We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men.” – The Declaration of Feminism , November 1971
Sorry I should have set that out she alleges inappropriate conduct towards her from Joe Biden , another example of the partisan nature would the now removed Andrew Cuomo in New York .
This is indicative of the loss of the concept of forgiveness in American society. Forgiveness, as expressed in religion, particularly Christianity, implies that there is goodness in people despite their sins. It also implies that the forgiver recognizes their own flaws, and that we are all less than perfect. In essence, forgiving makes ones enemies less evil, which runs counter to the messaging and passion upon which these movements thrive.
Thus perhaps it is feared that forgiving would threaten the legitimacy and strength of the given movement. To forgive the climate denier may serve to give credence to thoughts of a less-than-apocalyptic future. To forgive the racist remark implies that racists can change, which threatens the very foundations of concepts such as systemic racism. To forgive Louis CK implies that men might be turned from lust-filled pigs to humans worthy of affection and respect. This in turn implies a potential to end the wars being waged. Thus to forgive may seem like giving up before humanity is purified of whatever malevolence the movement seeks to destroy. To forgive might make them stop, or at least cool their fevers, and might even make them wrong.
Without forgiveness, the movements become like groups of 17th century peasants seeking out witches for burning. They create evil when it cannot be otherwise found in order to continue to try to purify the Society around them and justify their previous actions.
Only through forgiveness and a simple recognition that mankind can change for the better will these movements cease their bloodlust and see the humanity in those who offend them and the sense of humor of once-errant comics.
Forgiveness is too often weaponized to defend grown men from big bad children: see the Catholic Church.
Protecting the vulnerable is far more important than forgiving the predatory, which is a lesson the Christian church has yet to learn. #ChurchToo
Forgiveness is for those who have hurt you personally. Forgiveness to people who have harmed others cannot be given until the wrongs have been righted. This has not happened in the Catholic Church as far as I can see. We have no right to grant forgiveness to people who have hurt others. Only the others have the right to forgive and that is personal to each one of them.
Forgiveness is one of the most overused words in the language. Strictly speaking only God can offer forgiveness and for that the person must earnestly and sincerely repent of their sins and make amends to their life. Forgiveness doesn’t mean that you have the right to carry on as before after a brief token of contrition. In the absence of any direct communication from God we have to decide whether repentance, contrition and an urge to lead a better life has been met, in other words whether the person understands why his behaviour is abhorrent or whether it falls in the category of the immortal words of Homer Simpson “Honestly Marge you must believe me, I never intended you to find out” Whether this can be said of Louis CK or not is the nub of the matter. Incidentally, who is he? I have never heard of him
Forgiveness is personal as well. We have the right to forgive those who have harmed us. Indeed we have to so that we are released from any damaging bitterness to ourselves.
I don’t believe that is forgiveness in any reasonable sense of the word. I can decided to not let someone’s unkindness or malice against me ruin my life, indeed I should and usually do. But forgiveness is more than that, it is a way of wiping way someone’s sins; and that is not in my gift
I find the concept of personal forgiveness very difficult to get my head around although I appreciate that it is supposed to be psychologically healthy for the damaged party to attempt this sort of mental and emotional gymnastics.
I feel much more comfortable with the concept of revenge.
The wisest words I have ever read regarding this conundrum are from Dame Doreen Lawrence, who knows a thing or two about personal trauma. From an article in the Observer in 2018 :
“Forgiveness is accepting that you can’t change the past”
The woke won’t even forgive you the sins of your ancestors, why would they forgive you yours?
There is one exception, however. Forgiveness from the woke comes from becoming a good ally. There is no absolution, however, as privilege is permanent. The privileged, therefore, are required to engage in constant, public acts of atonement. The willfully privileged — those who refuse to struggle alongside the clean — remain unclean.
“the forgiver recognizes their own flaws, and that we are all less than perfect.”
You touched upon a key aspect of forgiveness – there is an implied concept of humility and the fear that you might sin one day, – “there but for the grace of God go I”
This principle also lends itself to good manners, giving to charity, the Geneva convention.
But what if you were perfect? A perennial victim, who could only be sinned against?
That’s why you have no forgiveness in wokeism for racism, sexism, sexual abuse, homophobia, islamophobia…
If you are black, you are not capable of racism even when masses of clueless Asians get beaten up.
If you are muslim, you are incapable of being a religious bigot.
And in this case, no woman could fall foul of me-too. You could be as sexually aggressive, flash someone etc but no matter.
There was a Guardian columnist who suggested that having sex with a drunken woman who woke up the next and decided to “regret”, should automatically mean rape and jail.
I innocently asked what if it was the other way round?
Got banned.
There is always a power imbalance in relationships. If you are an adult and you don’t want to watch someone jerk off you should say so. This infantilises women.
You’re either equal to men or you ain’t.
I am open to being corrected but I can’t help seeing it this way straight off the bat.
What Louis CK did was creepy, and I am grossed out by him now – but I don’t think he is an irredeemable criminal like Woody Allen and Roman Polanski.
Let him have his Grammy. Who cares?
My comment here would be very unpopular with the MeToo crowd (and I am a woman), but in my opinion the Louis CK story is a perfect example of a devastating lack of courage on the part of his “victims.” Their story was yet another variation on “he was powerful and we were just starting out in the business and couldn’t afford to make him angry” blah blah blah. The first time you sell out your values, give up your dignity, and are not willing to walk away from potential money and power, even to save your own soul, you have already lost.
These women should have told CK “No, please don’t do that, it’s not okay, it’s inappropriate. If not going along with this means that you won’t help me develop my career, just tell me now and we can part ways, no hard feelings.” Aziz Ansari’s date was a grown woman. She should have spoken up, in the moment, instead of writing a smear piece to post online afterwards.
This cowardice, this lack of a spine, is all around us, in every arena. I can understand silence, withdrawal, and even (temporary) cooperation in a scenario where someone’s actual physical safety might be in danger, as a strategic move, but that is not what is going on here.
I was still in my teens when I realized I would have to say no to certain men who offered “opportunities” to me in exchange for going along with something I didn’t want. Self-respect and dignity are like muscles; you have to use them regularly or they wither away.
Francis MacGabhann
2 years ago
“The market not the movement, holds the power”. How insightful of you to notice, Ms Rosenfield. Might you be willing to go a bit further and allow that this is actually a good thing, since the ordinary John and Jane Citizen exercises far more power — or at least influence — through the market thsn they’re ever allowed to do through politics?
Francis, are you actually being entirely consistent here? Should we then support the power of Google and Twitter, who are certainly supported by ‘the market’?. Google is provides fantastic services, whatever else you can say of it
Yes but they are a tool of the left and you will be cancelled if you cross them.
Jeremy Bray
2 years ago
Ordinary people can see that Louis CK’s punishment for his consensual flashing that wasn’t really consensual because of his “power” has already been grossly disproportionate. The reason a civilised society has courts of law and a code of criminal sanctions is because mob justice is almost always arbitrary and disproportionate.
Interestingly, in the UK a piece of progressive legislation, the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, runs exactly contrary to the perpetual banishment of twitter mob punishment. This provides that a convicted criminal is permitted to lie about his criminal convictions when applying for a job. For minor transgressions such as flashing he can lie from day one for more serious offences he may have to wait some years before he can lie.
The point is to ensure criminals can return to the world of work and society even at the expense of an employer making up their own mind as to whether they want an employee who has been convicted of an offence. The punishment of the “me too” twitter mob in contrast has more in common with the mob in Pakistan that killed a man for removing images of the Prophet from machinery.
Seriously?
“The point is to ensure criminals can return to the world of work and society even at the expense of an employer making up their own mind as to whether they want an employee who has been convicted of an offence.”
You consider flashing, a crime that’s almost exclusively committed against women and children, a “minor offence” which is terrifying to me.
If you want to apply this “Rehabilitation of Offenders” law to sex offenders, what you’re saying is that people have no right to protect themselves from sexual violence.
In what universe is that “progressive”?
The protection of sex offenders at the expense of the vulnerable is as old as time. Look at the Catholic Church. They did exactly what you defend: lied about sexually abusive priests to give them another chance to “return to the world of work and society”.
As for the Pakistani mob who killed a man for removing images of the prophet, perhaps you should “forgive” them and hire them to do some work around your home. Just be careful not to offend them.
The people who were eager to introduce the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and then extend its scope were principally those who are concerned with the welfare of offenders and characteristically fall into the leftish-progressive camp. I don’t fall into that camp myself and while there is something to be said for minor indiscretions not blighting job prospects for life I would, on the whole prefer to trust potential employers to decide themselves rather than that they be deprived of information about convictions.
As for whether flashing is treated as a minor offence or not I leave you to judge. The UK sentencing guidelines suggest that plain vanilla flashing attracts a sentence of a Band A fine to a high level community order. Band A seems to be between 50% and 75% of a persons weekly income. If mast*******n is involved this can increase the sentence to a maximum of 26 weeks imprisonment. There are further aggravating circumstances that can increase the sentence up to one year.
I was mistaken suggesting that the offender didn’t have to disclose this offence as these sentences mean that they have to be disclosed for a year after any sentence is completed if we look at flashing that does not involve aggravating factors. If the maximum sentence available to the court is imposed then the flasher would have to disclose his conviction for 4 years. Of course, there are a range of jobs including work with juveniles where disclose would be required.
I find the suggestion that I might be eager to employ one of the murderers from the Pakistani mob odd in the light of the fact that I clearly signalled my disapproval of both twitter mob as well as the more extreme and lethal Pakistani mob, nor did I endorse the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act but merely stated that that was a measure supported by progressive thinkers that ran counter to the idea that a flasher should be deprived of the opportunity to obtain employment for the rest of his life or some other interminable period.
Robert Quark
2 years ago
I saw him on his recent tour. He was as funny as ever. He performed to a crowd of 16k or more, during covid restrictions, to young, old, men, women (by my reckoning a roughly even split) and many different races, to an enthusiastic crowd where English wasn’t even their first language.
It is difficult in light of this not to see much of #metoo as anything other than yet another media cycle. Too much of the time people were asked not to assess between someone who went on a bad date and a mass rapist. It became yet another story of the media and social media tangling itself impossibly while the rest of us got on with our lives.
The audience I was among looked like what media had feared most since the onset of #metoo: the fearsome spectacle of people actually allowed to make up their own minds about something, rather than uncritically swallow what they had to offer.
Last edited 2 years ago by Robert Quark
cbscott.13
2 years ago
Louis CK had a pretty standard paraphilia….for which he seemed to ask consent.
If we’re supposed to accept men wearing female clothes and identifying as female accessing Women’s spaces without their consent, then that’s a very inconsistent world view…in my opinion.
Paul Smithson
2 years ago
“Had the movement gone too far? No! It hadn’t gone far enough!”
A very worthwhile movement in the start, but it did seem to grow into an almost man-hating tribe that seemed to want all men to feel bad simply for the sin of being a man.
That was a shame as the initial cultural shift was one that was long overdue.
The cultural shift is still happening, and it will continue. But men and boys are also sexually abused (usually by other men) and Identity Politics should not be allowed to silence them. #MeToo should be an attack on perpetrators, not men & boys, who are FAR more likely to be victims of sexual violence than they are to commit sexual violence.
R Wright
2 years ago
All MeToo has done is mean I refuse to ‘believe all women’ until the complainant actually takes them to court.
I agree: name names, and press charges. Enough with this fake twitter justice crap (although it is good to publicly name perpetrators to warn others – I support that 100%)
perfessa
2 years ago
The utter hypocrisy of the leftist me-too people destroyed their credibility forever. “Believe every woman” is so ridiculous and totalitarian that no thinking person can take it seriously. The Kavanaugh hearings with the obvious liar Blasey Ford was the end of it.
What about the Hillary Clinton lies against Trump?
Mo Brown
2 years ago
A worldview that’s centered around men being on one side and women on the other is counterproductive and harmful, particularly to those who hold such. It’s also hard to get past the ridiculousness of it when trying to take a person such as this author seriously. Here we have what is at its core an interesting article about what I would agree is a real issue, yet it’s so frequently marred needlessly by generalized references to “men” who do bad things and get away with them. There’s nothing intrinsically “male” that’s referenced anywhere in the rotten behavior described in this story. To me as a man who finds the actions of people like Louis CK abhorrent, I’m just pushed away from sympathizing or caring about whatever point is intended here. Go talk to a therapist or adjust your thinking madam. You have meaningful things to say. Just say them without the ideological baggage, and let’s be on the same page as decent human beings.
I have re-read the article given your comment, and found no no explicit – or implicit – blaming all or most men in it. I think your reaction is based on what you think a feminist author might think, rather than what does write.
There is absolutely no doubt that the vast majority of sexual harassment is carried out by men; there are some pretty obvious biological reasons for that in terms of male sexuality, physical strength and size. It is frankly ludicrous to imply that this isn’t the case. I don’t feel defensive because there are a minority of men who go much too far. In fact I recall feeling very uncomfortable years ago by some men’s behaviour in the office towards women, even though it obviously wasn’t directed at me. I was probably pretty cowardly about it, being very junior at the time.
It should also be pretty obvious that this doesn’t mean that the vast majority of men physically harass women.
If we aren’t going to use endless turgid circumlocutions of precisely which men we are talking about, then some sort of short hand is needed in an article, where there is an obvious context.
“It was enough to make even the most coolheaded feminist start to imagine a time, surely not too far off, when the movement would rise to absolute power and the patriarchy would lie in ruins.”
That sentence certainly suggests to me a worldview that centres on women being on one side and men the other.
Replace “men” by “muslims” or “blacks” (both groups with significantly worse attitudes and outcomes for women in their cultures) and imagine the reaction to such an article.
The Identity Politics are clear in this article: she represents #MeToo (fairly, I think) as a movement that is pro-woman, rather than pro-survivor in general.
Men are FAR more likely to be survivors of sexual violence than they are to be perpetrators of sexual violence. Yet this fact is missing in most discussions of MeToo and sexual violence.
There is all kinds of screaming and hair pulling about protecting trans women from being raped in men’s prisons, yet the routine rape of men in men’s prisons is either laughed about or ignored.
Many college hazing rituals involve sexual violence, yet this issue is also ignored.
Society needs to stop perpetuating the lie that “Real Men Don’t Get Raped”.
Real men DO get raped, and they have as much right to be heard and as much right to justice as women do.
The fate awaiting an individual about to be jailed is one of the few cracks (pretty boy like you) of that type you can still make on television, although, it is sometimes made in relation to women as well as men.
When your argument relies on “majority” of crimes being committed by Tribe A against Tribe B, you’ve lost, friend. Consider yourself a “social justice” proponent. And welcome to hell.
There are no labored arguments to be made: there is right and there is wrong.
Louis CK is creepy but he’s not a sexual predator. I was a fan, but still get grossed out by watching him now (I can’t help but picture it).
As for “elite taste makers” do you not see that those who reward the grammies are “elite taste makers”?
#MeToo took down Weinstein, Epstein, R Kelly, Bill Cosby, and even Prince Andrew. Is it really true to claim that it was ineffective at creating profound cultural change & sparking fear of exposure into predators (and potential predators)?
I see it very differently.
You would be stunned and horrified if you had to live in the world of the 70’s today, when marital rape was legal, sexual harassment on the job was legal, rape victims were ALWAYS blamed for being raped, and domestic violence was commonly viewed as a man’s right.
The culture has shifted drastically in terms of what is and is not acceptable male behavior toward women. That is a fantastic thing.
What isn’t fantastic is that non-criminal behavior has been lumped in with criminal behavior, with the latter not being prosecuted or punished nearly enough. That needs to be the next step in our cultural evolution.
As for Louis CK – who cares? He’s just creepy. Same with James Franco (whose movies I can no longer stomach – doubt that I’m alone). Aziz Ansari was insensitive, but not coercive or criminal. I suspect he treats his hookups with a bit more care these days.
Cultural change is a wrestling match, not a smooth progression.
There have always been women with backbones, and women without backbones.
The cultural change brought on by #MeToo has made the world a bit friendlier for those women who are brave enough to say “Not me, creep. Not today.”
Yes–they took down a lot of bad people but also took down more innocent good people. Leftist totalitarian strategy which destroyed whatever bona fides they had.
Would that not mean that #metoo was only symbolic of a wider cultural shift, than solely responsible for, say, ensnaring Prince Andrew?
jules Ritchie
2 years ago
What a putrid, horrible thing this MeToo is. Just make your accusation, don’t bother to actually make an official charge against your victim – you don’t need to as his career is in the toilet anyway. And you can remain anonymous if you so wish. Heaven!
polidori redux
2 years ago
Too many people in the US seems to lack any sense of proportion: You are either Mother Theresa, or you are the Devil. Looking around the world I notice that some crimes really are worse than others.
My personal favorite is, if you are to the right of AOC, you are “literally Hitler.”
William Shaw
2 years ago
It’s fanciful to think that cancellation on social media can have any long term effect.
If feminists want real lasting revenge they are going to have to use the courts and gain convictions.
Louis CK is back on stage because the majority of women are not feminists and MeToo is mostly an irrelevance.
Last edited 2 years ago by William Shaw
R S Foster
2 years ago
…Showbiz is full of rich, selfish degenerates whose self-obsession is so far off the scale as to represent a form of mental illness…so maybe young women who consider signing up for it, for the most part trading on looks and youth as well as talent…might think long and hard on what that might involve…rather than being consumed with shocked outrage when the pretty-much inevitable happens.
Movies, comedy and rock and roll don’t come with an HR Department and a Code of Conduct, at least not for the would-be “Talent”…until they actually “arrive”…
…so if you don’t fancy it, don’t do it…get an education, a proper job, and a mortgage…showbiz is about people who want to get rich, famous and important by showing-off, not by working. Unsurprisingly, most of the people in it are probably pretty horrible on the quiet. Who actually liked the class clown or school show-off other than themselves?
…a form of arrested development, I think…the sort of thing toddlers do because it feels good to them, but in a way and for reasons they can’t properly understand. Definitely a thing with little boys…not sure about little girls, because I wasn’t one…although as I recall they were the ones most likely to instigate games of “postman’s knock” and “sardines”. Difference between little boys imposing themselves through showing off, and little girls craving intimacy?
Deb Around
2 years ago
So by the tone of this article I can only assume that she would like people “cancelled” by the #MeToo movement to be completed erased off the face of the earth. Sure, highlight when someone is a scumbag – but let them have a life once they’ve been publicly humiliated. Louis CK is a damn good comic and, believe it or not, has to make a living somehow and continues to have a voice.
I am affected by sexual abuse but cannot be so fortunate as to place a #MeToo stamp on it and have that issue neatly rubbed out. Life is complex and difficult, sometimes we win and sometimes we learn. People across the gender spectrum make mistakes and are victims of those mistakes.
As a white woman in the States, the self righteous and entitled attitude of the modern feminist movement here is sickening. Try going somewhere where female rights are actually needed: Afghanistan in 2022 for example.
Lindsay S
2 years ago
#metoo turned out to a be an excellent distraction from the child actors who were coming forward with allegations of child abuse in the industry. The lead women in the #metoo movement also had links to child abuse/abusers. Weinstein was the sacrificial lamb. Big enough to hold the attention away from the most heinous of criminals in Hollywood. Now it’s back to business as usual.
Ian Stewart
2 years ago
Any chance of Kevin Spacey, one of the best actors in the last 50 years, making a comeback? The characters he played were just astonishing.
Dapple Grey
2 years ago
I find the whole cancel culture interesting as who is and who isn’t cancelled seems random.
For example, why hasn’t Lucian Freud been cancelled since he treated vulnerable women badly?
Could it be because so many people stand to make so much money out of his paintings?
D Hockley
2 years ago
Until I read about other people’s strange fetishes, I thought I was a bit of a player. But now I realise I am a total prude.
What I find fasinating is that whilst some fetishes are frowned upon whilst others are embraced by the very inconsistent society in which we live.
Christopher Barclay
2 years ago
As important are the men that #MeToo didn’t try to cancel, principally then candidate Biden. The movement became an obviously partisan political player.
Louis CK is also a poor example to take. As far as I know, none of the adult women reported being traumatised by the experience of watching a friend masturbate after he had asked their permission. On the zero to Harvey Weinstein scale, he is a lot closer to zero. The people who tried to cancel Louis CK were not there and most probably were never likeable to be in a position where they witnessed Louis’ fetish.
As for the audience who have welcomed Louis back, my guess is that it includes a fair proportion of women. Louis’ critics will no doubt view these women as self-hating misogynists, even though many of the critics who presume to know what these women should feel are men. Why then do these women spend good money to listen to a person they are told is a sexual predator ? Because they have assumed their own agency and decide that Louis’ transgressions are not that grave.
Neven Curlin
2 years ago
MeBoohoohoo!
David Batlle
2 years ago
“Who is Tara Reid?”
Someone in the comments section sincerely asked that question. That right there says everything you need to know about the so-called #metoo movement.
Last edited 2 years ago by David Batlle
Jorge Espinha
2 years ago
Very balanced article. Congratulations.
Dawn McD
2 years ago
The turning point moment for me was Jezebel publishing that whiny little piece from a woman describing, essentially, an awkward and unpleasant first date featuring Aziz Ansari’s inability to read her mind, and everyone there actually taking it seriously. I can’t believe I used to read Jezebel. I can’t believe I used to subscribe to Slate. I think of that part of my life as The Before Times.
Scott Norman Rosenthal
2 years ago
What about burden of proof? That has always been a question?
Russ W
2 years ago
Brilliant article. The last two or three paragraphs were worth the price of admission. Succinct description of, dare I say it, “objective realty.” Nice to see it in writing.
It looks more like a me me me movement certainly politically manipulated Observe the difference between Blasey Ford with Kavanagh and then Tara Reid and Biden , BlaseyFords own witnesses did not support her where as Tara Reid’s witnesses corroborate her account with Biden but the media is silent on Tara Reid .
Not dissimilar to the Black Republican Larry Elder during his campaign for California governor a person dressed in a gorilla costume ran after him throwing bananas at him , zero media coverage , had that been his rival political party the whole world would be shouting racism .
Me too is fundamentally flawed in the the failure to use due process and apply innocent until proven guilty . In that failure to adhere to the fundamental building blocks of our civilisation me too created a tyranny.that can only fail .
As it has unfolded many innocent men have been persecuted wrongly . This has affected the minds of men and not in the the direction of sympathy , some few women were genuine but kangaroo courts discredit even the just .
We now see the western world with a serious problem that men and women might achieve hookups but long term relationships and marriages are in terminal decline and with them the social cohesion of the western world is slipping .
The dramatic fall in marriage as the tyranny of Me Too sinks in with men not trusting women and that distrust making them more conscious of divorce courts unfairness means dramatically fewer children are being born and in western societies that have welfare systems based on ponzi tax schemes that will lmplode as the the older generations depend on the tax of the much fewer youngsters to support them and no immigrants are not going to rescue it , the rest of the world is developing and migration is ultimately going there .
So two wrongs don’t make a right , the end does not justify the means , the western world has been diminished by this medieval guilt by genitals tyranny that has ridden roughshod over the developed legal systems which are developed to perform their task with diligence to keep social cohesion .
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction , toxic Me Too and toxic feminism have been busy hating on men and demonising them , hate begets hate .
Yours is a criticism of Identity politics, a criticism I agree with 100%. But men and boys are also victims of sexual violence (usually committed by other men) so the issue of sexual violence is not strictly an issue of women’s rights, but of victim’s rights.
Little boys are far less likely to speak up about being victims of sexual abuse because boys are not “supposed” to be victims, they are “supposed” to be perpetrators.
By classifying #MeToo as strictly an anti-male women’s rights movement we are silencing men and boys (like those victimized by Michael Jackson and the Catholic Church) and making the world more dangerous for them.
#MeToo should not be seen as pro-woman/anti-man, but as pro-survivor/anti-perpetrator.
Men and boys are always getting raped by other men, and they also have a right to say #MeToo.
Agree totally.
I think the case of Asia Argento may have slipped your in mind. MeToo is an avowedly an anti-male women’s rights movement.
Boy rape has been going on in Britain for decades. I was sexually abused for nearly two years by a so called house father in an orphanage in the late fifties and I wasn’t the only one. There were lots of them around in those days and they mostly got away with it.
Thanks for your reply Penny and we agree on the Identity politics , however the Me too “movement” I think it is actually media driven and shuts men out .
When in workplaces audits of women have been carried out to establish inappropriate behaviour they mostly have not asked men .when on the few occasions they did ask men with same surveys they got same answers .
However Metoo does not represent all women and misandry is not limited to women either , men do it to . Since 2008 and the financial crisis I think the realisation of our elites was they did and still don’t know how to solve the economic problem having effectively created socialism for the corporates .
It is my my belief that Patriarchy is created by women selecting alpha males that then form groups with men at the top but some women alongside them and then women in the middle of society and men at the bottom of society throughout all history men are 99% of the executed 99% of the tortured and 99% of combat deaths , they are also the majority of slaves .
A womans life is inherently worth more than a mans she has the ability to give birth and that is the life blood of any society where as a man has no inherent value until he goes out and makes it for himself.
The men at the top are not threatened by women , rape is always illegal simply because the men at the top want to know it’s their child .Gender roles are not a moral decision they are determined by Mother Nature and the need to survive. We are decadent fools enjoying a unique period in the history of the earth where we are able to live past mere survival and shirk our roles .
Any way I digress sorry , Neo liberal order is seeking to divide and rule ahead of the next crisis that’s why all of this looney neo racism and sexism is cooked up in my opinion. I am sure that there are some well meaning metoo people and feminists but the media promotion of these is entirely misandrist and toxic with the deliberate intent of making men hate women and vice versa .
Reyhnard Srinagar is the most prolific rapist in British criminal history with 206 victims of coarse there was next to no media coverage of him no warnings to his distinct group of victims that such a danger lurked .no calls for curfews , no vigils or demonstrations . As you will have guessed by now his victims were young men . I must learn to do shorter reply’s .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-55276209
Thanks for making me think today. The line about corporate socialism bears some reflection. Also your comment on the creation of the patriarchy rings true to me.
“boys are not “supposed” to be victims, they are “supposed” to be perpetrators”
What an outrageous statement.
The LGBT in 1968 vowed to destroy marriages and it appears they have been largely successful.
“Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women… We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men.” – The Declaration of Feminism , November 1971
Who is Tara Reid?
Sorry I should have set that out she alleges inappropriate conduct towards her from Joe Biden , another example of the partisan nature would the now removed Andrew Cuomo in New York .
“Who is Tara Reid?“
That says everything you need to know about so called #metoo.
Apparently her name is spelled Tara Reade
This is indicative of the loss of the concept of forgiveness in American society. Forgiveness, as expressed in religion, particularly Christianity, implies that there is goodness in people despite their sins. It also implies that the forgiver recognizes their own flaws, and that we are all less than perfect. In essence, forgiving makes ones enemies less evil, which runs counter to the messaging and passion upon which these movements thrive.
Thus perhaps it is feared that forgiving would threaten the legitimacy and strength of the given movement. To forgive the climate denier may serve to give credence to thoughts of a less-than-apocalyptic future. To forgive the racist remark implies that racists can change, which threatens the very foundations of concepts such as systemic racism. To forgive Louis CK implies that men might be turned from lust-filled pigs to humans worthy of affection and respect. This in turn implies a potential to end the wars being waged. Thus to forgive may seem like giving up before humanity is purified of whatever malevolence the movement seeks to destroy. To forgive might make them stop, or at least cool their fevers, and might even make them wrong.
Without forgiveness, the movements become like groups of 17th century peasants seeking out witches for burning. They create evil when it cannot be otherwise found in order to continue to try to purify the Society around them and justify their previous actions.
Only through forgiveness and a simple recognition that mankind can change for the better will these movements cease their bloodlust and see the humanity in those who offend them and the sense of humor of once-errant comics.
Forgiveness is too often weaponized to defend grown men from big bad children: see the Catholic Church.
Protecting the vulnerable is far more important than forgiving the predatory, which is a lesson the Christian church has yet to learn. #ChurchToo
Forgiveness is for those who have hurt you personally. Forgiveness to people who have harmed others cannot be given until the wrongs have been righted. This has not happened in the Catholic Church as far as I can see. We have no right to grant forgiveness to people who have hurt others. Only the others have the right to forgive and that is personal to each one of them.
Forgiveness is one of the most overused words in the language. Strictly speaking only God can offer forgiveness and for that the person must earnestly and sincerely repent of their sins and make amends to their life. Forgiveness doesn’t mean that you have the right to carry on as before after a brief token of contrition. In the absence of any direct communication from God we have to decide whether repentance, contrition and an urge to lead a better life has been met, in other words whether the person understands why his behaviour is abhorrent or whether it falls in the category of the immortal words of Homer Simpson “Honestly Marge you must believe me, I never intended you to find out” Whether this can be said of Louis CK or not is the nub of the matter. Incidentally, who is he? I have never heard of him
Forgiveness is personal as well. We have the right to forgive those who have harmed us. Indeed we have to so that we are released from any damaging bitterness to ourselves.
I don’t believe that is forgiveness in any reasonable sense of the word. I can decided to not let someone’s unkindness or malice against me ruin my life, indeed I should and usually do. But forgiveness is more than that, it is a way of wiping way someone’s sins; and that is not in my gift
I find the concept of personal forgiveness very difficult to get my head around although I appreciate that it is supposed to be psychologically healthy for the damaged party to attempt this sort of mental and emotional gymnastics.
I feel much more comfortable with the concept of revenge.
The wisest words I have ever read regarding this conundrum are from Dame Doreen Lawrence, who knows a thing or two about personal trauma. From an article in the Observer in 2018 :
“Forgiveness is accepting that you can’t change the past”
You sound very woke.
The woke won’t even forgive you the sins of your ancestors, why would they forgive you yours?
There is one exception, however. Forgiveness from the woke comes from becoming a good ally. There is no absolution, however, as privilege is permanent. The privileged, therefore, are required to engage in constant, public acts of atonement. The willfully privileged — those who refuse to struggle alongside the clean — remain unclean.
“the forgiver recognizes their own flaws, and that we are all less than perfect.”
You touched upon a key aspect of forgiveness – there is an implied concept of humility and the fear that you might sin one day, – “there but for the grace of God go I”
This principle also lends itself to good manners, giving to charity, the Geneva convention.
But what if you were perfect? A perennial victim, who could only be sinned against?
That’s why you have no forgiveness in wokeism for racism, sexism, sexual abuse, homophobia, islamophobia…
If you are black, you are not capable of racism even when masses of clueless Asians get beaten up.
If you are muslim, you are incapable of being a religious bigot.
And in this case, no woman could fall foul of me-too. You could be as sexually aggressive, flash someone etc but no matter.
There was a Guardian columnist who suggested that having sex with a drunken woman who woke up the next and decided to “regret”, should automatically mean rape and jail.
I innocently asked what if it was the other way round?
Got banned.
Why indeed would you forgive?
Rape is sex without consent. Someone who is completely incapably drunk cannot give meaningful consent, thus it is rape.
.
Beautifully expressed. Thank you.
There is always a power imbalance in relationships. If you are an adult and you don’t want to watch someone jerk off you should say so. This infantilises women.
You’re either equal to men or you ain’t.
I am open to being corrected but I can’t help seeing it this way straight off the bat.
What Louis CK did was creepy, and I am grossed out by him now – but I don’t think he is an irredeemable criminal like Woody Allen and Roman Polanski.
Let him have his Grammy. Who cares?
Roman Polansky was satanic but what did Woody Allen do?
As always with these movements they end up being far more racist/sexist/exclusionary than the people they (imagine they) are destroying.
My comment here would be very unpopular with the MeToo crowd (and I am a woman), but in my opinion the Louis CK story is a perfect example of a devastating lack of courage on the part of his “victims.” Their story was yet another variation on “he was powerful and we were just starting out in the business and couldn’t afford to make him angry” blah blah blah. The first time you sell out your values, give up your dignity, and are not willing to walk away from potential money and power, even to save your own soul, you have already lost.
These women should have told CK “No, please don’t do that, it’s not okay, it’s inappropriate. If not going along with this means that you won’t help me develop my career, just tell me now and we can part ways, no hard feelings.” Aziz Ansari’s date was a grown woman. She should have spoken up, in the moment, instead of writing a smear piece to post online afterwards.
This cowardice, this lack of a spine, is all around us, in every arena. I can understand silence, withdrawal, and even (temporary) cooperation in a scenario where someone’s actual physical safety might be in danger, as a strategic move, but that is not what is going on here.
I was still in my teens when I realized I would have to say no to certain men who offered “opportunities” to me in exchange for going along with something I didn’t want. Self-respect and dignity are like muscles; you have to use them regularly or they wither away.
“The market not the movement, holds the power”. How insightful of you to notice, Ms Rosenfield. Might you be willing to go a bit further and allow that this is actually a good thing, since the ordinary John and Jane Citizen exercises far more power — or at least influence — through the market thsn they’re ever allowed to do through politics?
Francis, are you actually being entirely consistent here? Should we then support the power of Google and Twitter, who are certainly supported by ‘the market’?. Google is provides fantastic services, whatever else you can say of it
Yes but they are a tool of the left and you will be cancelled if you cross them.
Ordinary people can see that Louis CK’s punishment for his consensual flashing that wasn’t really consensual because of his “power” has already been grossly disproportionate. The reason a civilised society has courts of law and a code of criminal sanctions is because mob justice is almost always arbitrary and disproportionate.
Interestingly, in the UK a piece of progressive legislation, the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, runs exactly contrary to the perpetual banishment of twitter mob punishment. This provides that a convicted criminal is permitted to lie about his criminal convictions when applying for a job. For minor transgressions such as flashing he can lie from day one for more serious offences he may have to wait some years before he can lie.
The point is to ensure criminals can return to the world of work and society even at the expense of an employer making up their own mind as to whether they want an employee who has been convicted of an offence. The punishment of the “me too” twitter mob in contrast has more in common with the mob in Pakistan that killed a man for removing images of the Prophet from machinery.
Seriously?
“The point is to ensure criminals can return to the world of work and society even at the expense of an employer making up their own mind as to whether they want an employee who has been convicted of an offence.”
You consider flashing, a crime that’s almost exclusively committed against women and children, a “minor offence” which is terrifying to me.
If you want to apply this “Rehabilitation of Offenders” law to sex offenders, what you’re saying is that people have no right to protect themselves from sexual violence.
In what universe is that “progressive”?
The protection of sex offenders at the expense of the vulnerable is as old as time. Look at the Catholic Church. They did exactly what you defend: lied about sexually abusive priests to give them another chance to “return to the world of work and society”.
As for the Pakistani mob who killed a man for removing images of the prophet, perhaps you should “forgive” them and hire them to do some work around your home. Just be careful not to offend them.
The people who were eager to introduce the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and then extend its scope were principally those who are concerned with the welfare of offenders and characteristically fall into the leftish-progressive camp. I don’t fall into that camp myself and while there is something to be said for minor indiscretions not blighting job prospects for life I would, on the whole prefer to trust potential employers to decide themselves rather than that they be deprived of information about convictions.
As for whether flashing is treated as a minor offence or not I leave you to judge. The UK sentencing guidelines suggest that plain vanilla flashing attracts a sentence of a Band A fine to a high level community order. Band A seems to be between 50% and 75% of a persons weekly income. If mast*******n is involved this can increase the sentence to a maximum of 26 weeks imprisonment. There are further aggravating circumstances that can increase the sentence up to one year.
I was mistaken suggesting that the offender didn’t have to disclose this offence as these sentences mean that they have to be disclosed for a year after any sentence is completed if we look at flashing that does not involve aggravating factors. If the maximum sentence available to the court is imposed then the flasher would have to disclose his conviction for 4 years. Of course, there are a range of jobs including work with juveniles where disclose would be required.
I find the suggestion that I might be eager to employ one of the murderers from the Pakistani mob odd in the light of the fact that I clearly signalled my disapproval of both twitter mob as well as the more extreme and lethal Pakistani mob, nor did I endorse the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act but merely stated that that was a measure supported by progressive thinkers that ran counter to the idea that a flasher should be deprived of the opportunity to obtain employment for the rest of his life or some other interminable period.
I saw him on his recent tour. He was as funny as ever. He performed to a crowd of 16k or more, during covid restrictions, to young, old, men, women (by my reckoning a roughly even split) and many different races, to an enthusiastic crowd where English wasn’t even their first language.
It is difficult in light of this not to see much of #metoo as anything other than yet another media cycle. Too much of the time people were asked not to assess between someone who went on a bad date and a mass rapist. It became yet another story of the media and social media tangling itself impossibly while the rest of us got on with our lives.
The audience I was among looked like what media had feared most since the onset of #metoo: the fearsome spectacle of people actually allowed to make up their own minds about something, rather than uncritically swallow what they had to offer.
Louis CK had a pretty standard paraphilia….for which he seemed to ask consent.
If we’re supposed to accept men wearing female clothes and identifying as female accessing Women’s spaces without their consent, then that’s a very inconsistent world view…in my opinion.
“Had the movement gone too far? No! It hadn’t gone far enough!”
A very worthwhile movement in the start, but it did seem to grow into an almost man-hating tribe that seemed to want all men to feel bad simply for the sin of being a man.
That was a shame as the initial cultural shift was one that was long overdue.
The cultural shift is still happening, and it will continue. But men and boys are also sexually abused (usually by other men) and Identity Politics should not be allowed to silence them. #MeToo should be an attack on perpetrators, not men & boys, who are FAR more likely to be victims of sexual violence than they are to commit sexual violence.
All MeToo has done is mean I refuse to ‘believe all women’ until the complainant actually takes them to court.
I agree: name names, and press charges. Enough with this fake twitter justice crap (although it is good to publicly name perpetrators to warn others – I support that 100%)
The utter hypocrisy of the leftist me-too people destroyed their credibility forever. “Believe every woman” is so ridiculous and totalitarian that no thinking person can take it seriously. The Kavanaugh hearings with the obvious liar Blasey Ford was the end of it.
What about the Hillary Clinton lies against Trump?
A worldview that’s centered around men being on one side and women on the other is counterproductive and harmful, particularly to those who hold such. It’s also hard to get past the ridiculousness of it when trying to take a person such as this author seriously. Here we have what is at its core an interesting article about what I would agree is a real issue, yet it’s so frequently marred needlessly by generalized references to “men” who do bad things and get away with them. There’s nothing intrinsically “male” that’s referenced anywhere in the rotten behavior described in this story. To me as a man who finds the actions of people like Louis CK abhorrent, I’m just pushed away from sympathizing or caring about whatever point is intended here. Go talk to a therapist or adjust your thinking madam. You have meaningful things to say. Just say them without the ideological baggage, and let’s be on the same page as decent human beings.
I have re-read the article given your comment, and found no no explicit – or implicit – blaming all or most men in it. I think your reaction is based on what you think a feminist author might think, rather than what does write.
There is absolutely no doubt that the vast majority of sexual harassment is carried out by men; there are some pretty obvious biological reasons for that in terms of male sexuality, physical strength and size. It is frankly ludicrous to imply that this isn’t the case. I don’t feel defensive because there are a minority of men who go much too far. In fact I recall feeling very uncomfortable years ago by some men’s behaviour in the office towards women, even though it obviously wasn’t directed at me. I was probably pretty cowardly about it, being very junior at the time.
It should also be pretty obvious that this doesn’t mean that the vast majority of men physically harass women.
If we aren’t going to use endless turgid circumlocutions of precisely which men we are talking about, then some sort of short hand is needed in an article, where there is an obvious context.
“It was enough to make even the most coolheaded feminist start to imagine a time, surely not too far off, when the movement would rise to absolute power and the patriarchy would lie in ruins.”
That sentence certainly suggests to me a worldview that centres on women being on one side and men the other.
We have the same thing with the humanists. Feminism is just the female version of the humanists who worship their own intellects instead of God.
I noted that paragraph. A world where “the movement has risen to absolute power” would be an unimaginably awful place.
Replace “men” by “muslims” or “blacks” (both groups with significantly worse attitudes and outcomes for women in their cultures) and imagine the reaction to such an article.
The Identity Politics are clear in this article: she represents #MeToo (fairly, I think) as a movement that is pro-woman, rather than pro-survivor in general.
Men are FAR more likely to be survivors of sexual violence than they are to be perpetrators of sexual violence. Yet this fact is missing in most discussions of MeToo and sexual violence.
There is all kinds of screaming and hair pulling about protecting trans women from being raped in men’s prisons, yet the routine rape of men in men’s prisons is either laughed about or ignored.
Many college hazing rituals involve sexual violence, yet this issue is also ignored.
Society needs to stop perpetuating the lie that “Real Men Don’t Get Raped”.
Real men DO get raped, and they have as much right to be heard and as much right to justice as women do.
The fate awaiting an individual about to be jailed is one of the few cracks (pretty boy like you) of that type you can still make on television, although, it is sometimes made in relation to women as well as men.
When your argument relies on “majority” of crimes being committed by Tribe A against Tribe B, you’ve lost, friend. Consider yourself a “social justice” proponent. And welcome to hell.
There are no labored arguments to be made: there is right and there is wrong.
Where do I order a ritual spanking machine?
Harrods of course.
Louis CK is creepy but he’s not a sexual predator. I was a fan, but still get grossed out by watching him now (I can’t help but picture it).
As for “elite taste makers” do you not see that those who reward the grammies are “elite taste makers”?
#MeToo took down Weinstein, Epstein, R Kelly, Bill Cosby, and even Prince Andrew. Is it really true to claim that it was ineffective at creating profound cultural change & sparking fear of exposure into predators (and potential predators)?
I see it very differently.
You would be stunned and horrified if you had to live in the world of the 70’s today, when marital rape was legal, sexual harassment on the job was legal, rape victims were ALWAYS blamed for being raped, and domestic violence was commonly viewed as a man’s right.
The culture has shifted drastically in terms of what is and is not acceptable male behavior toward women. That is a fantastic thing.
What isn’t fantastic is that non-criminal behavior has been lumped in with criminal behavior, with the latter not being prosecuted or punished nearly enough. That needs to be the next step in our cultural evolution.
As for Louis CK – who cares? He’s just creepy. Same with James Franco (whose movies I can no longer stomach – doubt that I’m alone). Aziz Ansari was insensitive, but not coercive or criminal. I suspect he treats his hookups with a bit more care these days.
Cultural change is a wrestling match, not a smooth progression.
There have always been women with backbones, and women without backbones.
The cultural change brought on by #MeToo has made the world a bit friendlier for those women who are brave enough to say “Not me, creep. Not today.”
Yes–they took down a lot of bad people but also took down more innocent good people. Leftist totalitarian strategy which destroyed whatever bona fides they had.
Would that not mean that #metoo was only symbolic of a wider cultural shift, than solely responsible for, say, ensnaring Prince Andrew?
What a putrid, horrible thing this MeToo is. Just make your accusation, don’t bother to actually make an official charge against your victim – you don’t need to as his career is in the toilet anyway. And you can remain anonymous if you so wish. Heaven!
Too many people in the US seems to lack any sense of proportion: You are either Mother Theresa, or you are the Devil. Looking around the world I notice that some crimes really are worse than others.
My personal favorite is, if you are to the right of AOC, you are “literally Hitler.”
It’s fanciful to think that cancellation on social media can have any long term effect.
If feminists want real lasting revenge they are going to have to use the courts and gain convictions.
Louis CK is back on stage because the majority of women are not feminists and MeToo is mostly an irrelevance.
…Showbiz is full of rich, selfish degenerates whose self-obsession is so far off the scale as to represent a form of mental illness…so maybe young women who consider signing up for it, for the most part trading on looks and youth as well as talent…might think long and hard on what that might involve…rather than being consumed with shocked outrage when the pretty-much inevitable happens.
Movies, comedy and rock and roll don’t come with an HR Department and a Code of Conduct, at least not for the would-be “Talent”…until they actually “arrive”…
…so if you don’t fancy it, don’t do it…get an education, a proper job, and a mortgage…showbiz is about people who want to get rich, famous and important by showing-off, not by working. Unsurprisingly, most of the people in it are probably pretty horrible on the quiet. Who actually liked the class clown or school show-off other than themselves?
I find it fascinating that his kink was wanting to be watched whilst masturbating. Talk about an ego.
…a form of arrested development, I think…the sort of thing toddlers do because it feels good to them, but in a way and for reasons they can’t properly understand. Definitely a thing with little boys…not sure about little girls, because I wasn’t one…although as I recall they were the ones most likely to instigate games of “postman’s knock” and “sardines”. Difference between little boys imposing themselves through showing off, and little girls craving intimacy?
So by the tone of this article I can only assume that she would like people “cancelled” by the #MeToo movement to be completed erased off the face of the earth. Sure, highlight when someone is a scumbag – but let them have a life once they’ve been publicly humiliated. Louis CK is a damn good comic and, believe it or not, has to make a living somehow and continues to have a voice.
I am affected by sexual abuse but cannot be so fortunate as to place a #MeToo stamp on it and have that issue neatly rubbed out. Life is complex and difficult, sometimes we win and sometimes we learn. People across the gender spectrum make mistakes and are victims of those mistakes.
As a white woman in the States, the self righteous and entitled attitude of the modern feminist movement here is sickening. Try going somewhere where female rights are actually needed: Afghanistan in 2022 for example.
#metoo turned out to a be an excellent distraction from the child actors who were coming forward with allegations of child abuse in the industry. The lead women in the #metoo movement also had links to child abuse/abusers. Weinstein was the sacrificial lamb. Big enough to hold the attention away from the most heinous of criminals in Hollywood. Now it’s back to business as usual.
Any chance of Kevin Spacey, one of the best actors in the last 50 years, making a comeback? The characters he played were just astonishing.
I find the whole cancel culture interesting as who is and who isn’t cancelled seems random.
For example, why hasn’t Lucian Freud been cancelled since he treated vulnerable women badly?
Could it be because so many people stand to make so much money out of his paintings?
Until I read about other people’s strange fetishes, I thought I was a bit of a player. But now I realise I am a total prude.
What I find fasinating is that whilst some fetishes are frowned upon whilst others are embraced by the very inconsistent society in which we live.
As important are the men that #MeToo didn’t try to cancel, principally then candidate Biden. The movement became an obviously partisan political player.
Louis CK is also a poor example to take. As far as I know, none of the adult women reported being traumatised by the experience of watching a friend masturbate after he had asked their permission. On the zero to Harvey Weinstein scale, he is a lot closer to zero. The people who tried to cancel Louis CK were not there and most probably were never likeable to be in a position where they witnessed Louis’ fetish.
As for the audience who have welcomed Louis back, my guess is that it includes a fair proportion of women. Louis’ critics will no doubt view these women as self-hating misogynists, even though many of the critics who presume to know what these women should feel are men. Why then do these women spend good money to listen to a person they are told is a sexual predator ? Because they have assumed their own agency and decide that Louis’ transgressions are not that grave.
MeBoohoohoo!
“Who is Tara Reid?”
Someone in the comments section sincerely asked that question. That right there says everything you need to know about the so-called #metoo movement.
Very balanced article. Congratulations.
The turning point moment for me was Jezebel publishing that whiny little piece from a woman describing, essentially, an awkward and unpleasant first date featuring Aziz Ansari’s inability to read her mind, and everyone there actually taking it seriously. I can’t believe I used to read Jezebel. I can’t believe I used to subscribe to Slate. I think of that part of my life as The Before Times.
What about burden of proof? That has always been a question?
Brilliant article. The last two or three paragraphs were worth the price of admission. Succinct description of, dare I say it, “objective realty.” Nice to see it in writing.