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How racist was the British Empire? A debate over war graves threatens to mislead the public about the past

Many Indians fought and died for the Empire. Photo by New York Times Co./Getty Images

Many Indians fought and died for the Empire. Photo by New York Times Co./Getty Images


May 20, 2021   6 mins

The movement to “decolonise” that is sweeping feverishly through our schools, universities and cultural institutions is propelled by three axioms. The first is that British colonialism was essentially racist; the second, that British society today is structurally racist; and the third, that the latter is caused by the former. That is why we have to topple statues and erase street names that celebrate colonial heroes, since only by so doing can we repudiate the colonial roots of contemporary racism and liberate ourselves from its persistently, systemically poisonous influence. Or so it is claimed.

Two recent reports, however, have strongly challenged the first two axioms, and thereby dislodged the third. March saw the publication of the Sewell report on race and ethnic disparities, which presented hard social scientific data calling into doubt the assumption that unequal outcomes for non-white racial groups are always, or even usually, attributable to racism. It also bluntly contradicted the claim that contemporary Britain is structurally racist. Predictably, its conclusions were greeted with howls of protest, with several commentators simply unable to digest the idea that a racial inequality might not have racism as its cause.

The second report, which appeared last month, verbally endorsed the axiom that British colonialism was essentially racist, while substantively undermining it. This was composed by the Special Committee to Review Historical Inequalities in Commemoration, which had been set up by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. It revealed that up to 54,000 Indians and Africans who died in the service of the British Empire during the First World War had been commemorated “unequally”, and at least a further 116,000 had not been commemorated either by name or at all.

The report itself attributed the unequal treatment ultimately to “imperial ideology”, that is, “the entrenched prejudices, preconceptions and pervasive racism of contemporary imperial attitudes”. The fateful phrase “pervasive racism” was then picked up and broadcast by the press from the Guardian to the Times, and by television stations such as the BBC and Al Jazeera. Asked to comment, historian David Olusoga provocatively summarised what the report had discovered as “apartheid in death”. Casual onlookers could readily be forgiven for walking away confirmed in their conviction that British colonialism was essentially racist, and that the sooner the British “decolonise” themselves, the better.

Yet closer inspection reveals a very different story. The report makes clear that the Imperial War Graves Commission (as it was known then) was committed to the principle of the equal treatment of all the Empire’s fallen troops in the commemoration of their sacrifice, whatever the colour of their skin. Writing in 1926, the Commission’s founder, Fabian Ware, was unequivocal in stating that “all the soldiers of the Empire should be treated alike”. The report also makes clear that this principle was consistently realised in Europe, something which can easily be confirmed by a visit to the Menin Gate, where the names of Indians with no known grave join those of fallen British comrades cascading down the walls; or to the cemetery at Noyelles-sur-Mer, where the burials of members of the Chinese Labour Corps are marked by individual headstones, just like those of British soldiers elsewhere.

Outside Europe, however, this egalitarian policy was sometimes compromised. Many Indian and African casualties were commemorated, not with individually marked graves, but collectively with their names inscribed on memorials or, if missing, in memorial registers. Other, mainly East African and Egyptian personnel, received no commemoration by name and perhaps none at all. This deviation from the norm in Europe, the Commission’s report tells us, was due to “problems largely born out of distance, communication, local conditions, and on-going instability”.

Practical obstacles, however, were not always the reason for unequal treatment. There was also the view that, since most of the African dead came from peoples that were not accustomed to burying the deceased and so would not appreciate marked graves, they should be commemorated on collective memorials. Thus, F. G. Guggisberg, Governor of what is now Ghana said in May 1923 that “the average native of the Gold Coast would not understand or appreciate a headstone”.

The report’s comment on this and similar perceptions is stern: “Sweeping judgements such as these, which chose to ignore the intricacies of faith, culture, and customs in Africa outside Christian and Islamic traditions, played a significant role in shaping the IWGC policies that led to unequal treatment”. Worse, they were not just innocently sweeping, for their failure to do justice to cultural particularities was rooted in an “overarching imperial ideology” that was based on ideals of progress and civilisation that generated hierarchies of race and religion. Here, then, is where “pervasive racism” is supposed to appear.

Yet, it is notable that the report does not actually say that the views of the officials were empirically mistaken. That was wise, since it seems that the authors had not read any authority on the funerary customs of Africans — no such work appears in the report’s Select Bibliography. In fact, the ethnography of the period indicated that African peoples did often eschew burying their dead in marked graves. As reported in Volume IV of the 1911 edition of James Hastings’ classic Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, “the Masai, whose reason for not burying ordinary persons is said to be that the bodies would poison the soil, bury [only] their medicine-men and rich men”, while “some African tribes, as the Latuka and the Wadjagga, leave the slain warrior unburied”. Another group, “the Barotse … bury in secret, from which we may probably infer that the object is to leave no clue as to the burial place lest it be violated by wizards”.

Whereas the Commission’s report is quick to attribute the colonial officials’ view of African burial customs to imperial disdain for “primitive” peoples, in fact it might well have been born of close attention to them in the form of ethnographic research and direct experience. In their African colonies the British were so thin on the ground that their rule was only sustainable by persuading native peoples to cooperate. But in order to be persuasive, the British had to make themselves well-informed. For sure, African custom varied a lot over a vast continent, but if the quoted colonial officials were in fact mistaken about the burial customs of their war-dead, the report has not shown it.

However, allegedly ignorant claims by colonial officials about African burial customs are not the only evidence of the “pervasive racism” that the report claims to have exposed. Lying beneath them are the theoretical “hierarchies of race and religion that underpinned empire”. It is clear that the officials did regard the cultures of many African peoples as “primitive”. But I doubt they deserve blame for that, since — whether in terms of science, technology or medicine — African cultures were, compared to European ones, obviously underdeveloped in the 1920s. Moreover, when it came to deciding to commemorate the wartime sacrifice of native Africans collectively rather than with individual headstones, the reason was often respect for native custom, rather than disdain for it.

Further still, it is most remarkable that discrimination was usually religious rather than racial. Thus, the IWGC regarded non-white members of the West India Regiment, the British West Indies Regiment, and South African units as Europeans, because they were presumed to be Christian (or Muslim) monotheists, according them individually named commemoration wherever possible.

Divergence from the norm in Europe because of serious practical difficulties or out of deference to native religious custom was not racist at all. What would have been racist is the differential commemoration of African or Indian dead because they were regarded as less worthy than their British or European counterparts simply on account of their ethnicity or race. Did that occur? The report does not present much unequivocal evidence of this, but it does present some. So, for example, at the Beira Christian cemetery in Portuguese East Africa, the graves of eighteen named native African soldiers were intentionally left unmarked — since the deceased were to be commemorated on the nameless Dar es Salaam African Memorial — while the graves of white South Africans and Europeans now remain.

In sum, then, what the Commission’s report actually shows is this. Operating out of the metropolitan heart of the British Empire, the IWGC was committed to the racially egalitarian policy of commemorating all the fallen soldiers of the Empire alike. This it did consistently in Europe, marking the known graves of individuals while naming those with no known grave on collective memorials, regardless of their race. Outside of Europe this policy was sometimes adjusted out of practical necessity or respect for native religious custom, with good moral justification. In certain cases, it seems to have been unjustifiably compromised by racist preference for Europeans. That was lamentable, but it does not add up to evidence of pervasive — far less, systematic — “apartheid in death”.

Parts of the report confirms this conclusion. To assert the success of the policy of equal commemoration in Europe, it tells us, “is not to say that it was only there that the IWGC realised this goal or where it worked to make it a reality”. As for those occasions when it was set aside, it comments that “[i]n many ways it is understandable that IWGC operations during and following the First World War were not perfect”.

However, the report never quite manages to bring into clear focus the truth that not all inequalities are unjust — and that it pays no less respect to African or Indian fallen who would have received a headstone in northern France, to deny it to them in Africa or the Middle East, not because of their skin colour, but because of the dangerous remoteness of where they fell and were originally buried or out of deference to what was believed to be native custom. Because of its unresolved confusion on this ethical point, the report insinuates guilt where it should not, as when it writes that the IWGC was “complicit” in decisions that compromised its principles and treated the dead unequally.

When, to this ethical confusion is added the axiom of post-colonialist theory that the British Empire was informed by a single “imperial ideology”, which involved thinking of race and religion in terms of a fixed hierarchy of (white) superiority and (non-white) inferiority, the judgement is reached that the IWGC’s inequalities of commemoration were ultimately attributable to “pervasive racism”. Except that, as we have seen, that is not what the data says. So, this judgement does not follow from the evidence; it precedes it, and in doing so it brings with it its own, 21st-century, prejudice.


Nigel Biggar is Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology, University of Oxford

NigelBiggar

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Vikram Sharma
Vikram Sharma
2 years ago

What did the Romans ever do for us? The honest answer is that some good things and some bad things.
As an Indian it is hard to consider the counter factual- how would India have developed without being part of the Empire? Might it still be a haphazard collection of kingdoms riven, with Muslim rule over most of the subcontinent? Better or worse? No one can be sure?
But there is one counterfactual that is possible. Looking at what happened to the Mayans, Aztecs, people of Congo, most of Western and sub Saharan Africa I am immensely relieved that India was colonised by the British rather any other rival European power.

Last edited 2 years ago by Vikram Sharma
James Sutton
James Sutton
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

Vikram I always look for your posts – your balanced intellect and common sense always win the day. Thank you.

Alan Tonkyn
Alan Tonkyn
2 years ago
Reply to  James Sutton

I quite agree, James. I always value what Vikram has to say – I must be a strange abnormality in our supposedly systemically racist society! Vikram’s counterfactuals are interesting: we don’t stop to think what would have happened if the British imperialists hadn’t colonised large parts of the world: nature abhors a vacuum, and what filled that space – whether local or other foreign overlord – might well not have been good news for the colonised peoples.

Richard E
Richard E
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Tonkyn

People have a habit of assuming positive counter narratives, when in reality you never know what may have happened if the British had not taken over India. It could have been 300 years of chaos up until the present day, or maybe some great ruler would have created a successful united India that was able to compete with the European powers on equal footing.

Last edited 2 years ago by Richard E
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Tonkyn

One place ‘we’ should have conquered and colonised was Ethiopia.

We chastised them in 1867, but then let them go.
Eventually they were attacked by the wretched Italians who failed miserably in 1897, but returned brutally in 1936 with poison gas and other goodies.
Their pathetic imperium only lasted a few years but the savagery was awfully. Sadly no Italians were hanged for their conduct as they should have in been.*

Central & Northern Ethiopia is about 7000 feet high, perfect for European/English settlement, rather like the White Highlands of zKenya directly to the south.

A missed opportunity for all. Currently chaos reigns and barbarism sweeps across the land.

(* in their hundreds.)

Zach Thornton
Zach Thornton
2 years ago

Ethiopians would not agree this white supremacist rubbish.

Paul N
Paul N
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Tonkyn

It would probably have been the Dutch East India Company.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Yes Britain came late to the M Pire game but accidently got the ‘best bits’. However the idea of whether we are at fault or can be blamed is rather strange as noone is playing by the same rules. Its like having 2 teams at a football match , one comes on in their numbered jerseys & takes their positions. The other come on & using weapons ‘dispose ‘ of the other team & declare themselves the winner. This is the way most of the world works-there is no such thing as ‘fair play’

Richard E
Richard E
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

Honesty, objectivity and openness is the key.
Empires were never charitable affairs and usually involved the extraction of wealth in one way or another, whether it was taking control of resources, people or land.
But you have to bear in mind that all the colonies/territories of the empires were empires and kingdoms themselves, even before the Europeans arrived. None were democratic.
Much of the problem with the Left is that they see Europeans as a special case with some kind of inherent unfair advantage over the rest of the world.
If you look at Europeans as just another tribe – amongst a planet of tribes – the history of the world looks very different.
The reality is that one tribe who had already built an empire or nation (Zulus, Mughals, Aztecs, Incas etc) and extracted wealth, were defeated by another tribe (British/French/Dutch/ Spanish/Portuguese) who then went on to extract the wealth themselves.
Some of these Empires had economic systems, beliefs and attitudes that involved far more investment into their territories and subjects than others, and left behind some kind of positive legacy.
There is also a big difference between the colonies where the indigenous people were moved aside or replaced to produce new European countries (North America, NZ and Australia), and colonies where the demographics did not alter much, but the territory was ruled with the aim of purely extracting wealth (India, South America and Africa).
But you should never forget, Empires are there to benefit the home country and no one else – especially during the phase where they are being built.

Last edited 2 years ago by Richard E
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

One interesting rule of modern empires* particularly the USA, is that if you wish to steal another man’s country it is best to exterminate or near exterminate the indigenous inhabitants.

This policy has worked spectacularly well in the US, Australia, New Zealand and much of South America and the Caribbean.
Conversely it failed miserably in both Africa and Asia, due to an excessive population in the first place.

(* post 1500 AD.)

Richard E
Richard E
2 years ago

True – and it has probably happened again and again throughout history. What happened to the original hunter gatherers in Britain and Ireland when the first Neolithic farmers came, and then what happened to these people when the wave of Bronze age farmers came to the British Isles. What then happened to them when the Celtic/Iron Age peoples came?
There must be examples from all over the world, well before the Europeans took over the World.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

We haven’t quite taken over the whole world…yet.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago

This is 100% a result of immunity to illness. The ‘New Worlds (and you missed Polynesia) had no immunity to Western illnesses, so dies out.

Much like Covid-19. China 3 deaths per million and other than show lockdowns did nothing but keep working. All the entire West Pacific had between 0.3 to the highest 84, deaths per million! most countries there, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Taiwan, insignificant numbers.The West close to 2000. YES, Three Deaths per Million to about Two Thousand per million in the West.

SAME THING. Odd that – how it came about. Strange no government puts 2+2 together.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

I couldn’t agree more, except C-19:is far less effective than the various viruses the West exported post 1500..

Martin Terrell
Martin Terrell
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

Except the British Empire – in its last 100 years – was not that profitable, and became unaffordable in the end. And for all the fortunes made by some, others just went to make a living, building railways or roads. Others went out to ‘serve’ at great personal cost and had huge respect for the people and cultures they met.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

So, they were the least evil, marvellous. Come on Vikram. Wouldn’t most Indians prefer to be the determinants of there own destinies?

Stuart Y
Stuart Y
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Spectacularly missing the point……I trust not deliberately so.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Stuart Y

“I am immensely relieved that India was colonised by the British rather any other rival European power.”
No, bang on target Stuart

Simon Baggley
Simon Baggley
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Do you know anything about the Moghul empire and their treatment of the Hindu population after they’d invaded India

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Simon Baggley

Yes. Do you know about the Massacre of women and children in Amritsar? Do you know about the rice famine that killed circa 4 m people during WW2 caused by Churchills decision?

Richard E
Richard E
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

The Muslim led holocaust of the Hindus & Sikhs in India, is considered the biggest in world history.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

Nah…Stalin or Mao

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Or maybe Gengise

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Is that Genghis Khan you are referring to?

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

I suggest you read the Indian Historian K S Lal.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Taken in an Asian context the Bengal Famine pales into insignificance with what Mao and his savages were up to.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago

Very true, but the question is about Britain.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

What crime?
He was giving detailed ‘fire control orders’ for seven minutes.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Please provide locations and tonnages of food stores available. In 1943 Japan was close to invading India. Please provide location and names of ships which could have moved food to India.
Famine has been a tragedy in India and was last a threat in the 1970 India Pakistani War. Field Marshall Sam Makeshaw was concerned that too early an India involvement in the Pakistan / Bangladesh Civil War before the harvest had been brought in could result in Famine.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

One factor that is constantly ignored by those who enjoy blaming Churchill for the 20thC Bengal famine is the Indian merchants who deliberately hoarded food supplies to drive up prices; and were seemingly quite happy to watch their neighbours starve to death for their own profit.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

The Bengal famine, or rather the inability to cope with it, was caused by the Japanese, not Churchill. Have you forgotten there was a war on? Had the Japanese not been stopped at Imphal by the amazing bravery of British and Indian troops, the long term future of the Bengalis would have been much worse even than the famine.

Richard E
Richard E
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Were they masters of their own destiny even before the Europeans arrived? Weren’t the Mughals from Central Asia originally, and ruled over the Indian Hindu Majority. When the Mughal Empire collapsed wasn’t it the Persians and Afghans who raided Delhi again and again to carry off its wealth.
Vikram’s point is that when you look at the Empires of the world, the Belgians in the Congo, the Spanish and their conquest of the Aztecs and Incas, or the French in West Africa – he think’s being part of Britain’s Empire, was preferable. Maybe the least worst option on the table for India.

Last edited 2 years ago by Richard E
Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

Yes I saw that too. The least worse or evil. It’s a little like saying the bikers only beat me up twice when the skinheads would have beaten me up more. Maybe I’m foolish in thinking that the peoples of India would have preferred not to have been beaten by invaders. And I think this as a former serviceman

Richard E
Richard E
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

But they had already been beaten by invaders when the British arrived on the scene.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

That’s not the point Richard. That’s like saying a burglar nicked your telly so it’s ok for me to nick your car.

Colonisation by any group is driven by a range of reasons including racism.

The British at that time were driven by a sense of divine superiority over others whether by virtue of religion, colour, creed etc. That’s the way they rolled

Richard E
Richard E
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

The early British take over of India was driven by pure profit motive of the British East India Company. I don’t think they cared who was who, as long as it resulted in the maximum profit. Circumstances handed them India when Mughal rule collapsed, and they were there to pick up the pieces.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

A gross oversimplification as I am sure Professor Nigel Biggar would agree.

Incidentally do you know how long it took to sail to India in say 1765? *

(*why 1765?.)

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

Not quite true. Moghul Empire gave the EIC tax farming rights for Bengal, Orissa and Bihar in the mid 18th century and hence it gained civil and military powers over Indians. By mid 18th century Moghul Empire had splintered.

Richard E
Richard E
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

But maybe British rule was better than Mughal rule. So even better than what they had at the time?

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

Yes youre right they were driven by greed to which I would add in response to the question posed by this article, Britain in its broadest sense was also racist…….Rule Britannia sort of gives it away

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Rather mild compared to say:
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago

Isnt invasion just invasion

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

No.

Colin Elliott
Colin Elliott
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

How does ‘Rule Britannia’ give it away? That is a classic example of taking something out of context.
The lyrics are “Rule, Britannia! Rule the waves! Britons will never be slaves!” (Imperative tense.)
Although originally intended to refer to King Alfred’s times, it struck a chord at a time when the enslavement of Britons was a risk for any sailing through the Mediterranean, and some were even plucked from the coasts of south west England.

Fred Atkinstalk
Fred Atkinstalk
2 years ago
Reply to  Colin Elliott

Pedantic point of the day: imperative is a mood, not a tense (though goodness knows what it is called in primary schools these days, so you might be correct!)

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

‘We’ were a vast improvement over say Babur or the equally homicidal Aurangzeb.

A visit to the Qutb Minar, Delhi, is instructive as to what previous Islamic barbarians did to Hindu India.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

As a ‘former servicemen’ did you by any chance serve in the Infantry?

And did you have the good fortune to take part in any of our recent Invasions, the Falklands, Iraq or Afghanistan for example?

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard E

Invasions of India
Mahmoud of Ghazni Ad 997 to 1026 AD, 15 in number.
Mohammed of Gor, 1175 to 1206 AD, 6 in number.
Tamerlane sacked Delhi in 1398 AD
Babur the turk invaded 1526 AD .
Nadir Shaw of Persia in 1739 AD.
Ahmad Shah Durani invaded in 1756 AD.
A total of 26 invasions. What Britain stopped was invasions from Central Asia and a creation of a society where success could be achieved by promotion via professional exams rather than the sword.

Vikram Sharma
Vikram Sharma
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

There were no Indians as we know them now in precolonial days. There were many clans, communities, tribes that shared many gods and legends. Various forms of Hinduism existed, some Aryan and other Dravidian. So your question is meaningless

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

Vikram I agree. And I’m not posing my own question, merely responding to the question posed in the title of this article. British colonialism was unequivocally racist. There is masses of evidence to support this. The extent to which they were is subjective and dependent on an individual’s view of racism

Vikram Sharma
Vikram Sharma
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Fair enough
We don’t disagree

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

“There were no Indians as we know them now in precolonial days” So the Subcontinent had a different name then? Should we call them ‘Native Indians’ instead of Indians? Using USA as an example. Love that idea. Pre Western Colonialism, the Indian Sub Continent was occupied by ‘Native Indians’ (and Mughals) , and after was occupied by ‘ Colonial Indians’, and after 1947 was occupied by ‘Indians’ (or at at least those not expelled in 47).

This should give the de-colonizers some more things to work with.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

I think least evil is quite a compliment. Most people don’t determine their ( country’s ) own destinies-look at all the places that got invaded , changed etc in Europe , never mind the rest of the world which most people , lets be honest, don’t really care about.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Is it? Ok

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Well, between 1-2 MILLION people were killed as India partitioned its self in 1947. This is fellow killing fellow Indian. So they apparently did not like each controlling their own destines. Up to TWENTY MILLION WERE DISPLACED!!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

Or as the Spanish philosopher George Santayana put it so eloquently, in 1922.

“ Never since the heroic days of Greece has the world had such a sweet, just, boyish master. It will be a black day for the human race when scientific blackguards, conspirators, churls, and fanatics manage to supplant him.”

David Brown
David Brown
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

We did some vile things, but it is a fact that the others were worse.

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

And of course the Aztecs used neighbouring peoples as a vast reservoir of blood filled bodies for their human sacrifices . The woke seem to believe having inferior technology and therefore weaponry makes for moral superiority

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

Were it not for the rather contingent rise to power by the East India Company and the eventual British Raj, it seems very likely that India would have broken up into a number of separate states.

The Mughal Empire had in fact essentially disintegrated well before the East India Company had gained any significant political power on the sub-continent – and not because of it. (Delhi was sacked by the Persians in 1739 etc).

The sub-continent being of a similar scale and diversity as Europe, this would have been an entirely reasonable and natural outcome. Many of the modern states in the Indian Union are linguistically based and are as large or larger than modern European states. Similar states could have arisen as separate nations.

Although Indian nationalists think of a united India being natural, this has rarely been the case in its history. As European and even Chinese history also show, it is very possible to have a civilisational unity without the political kind. (United Europe enthusiasts take note).

(Apologies if this is all ‘teaching my grandmother to suck eggs’!)

Last edited 2 years ago by Andrew Fisher
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Good points. What changed the East India Company was when the Mughal Emperor gave it tax farming powers for Bengal, Bihar and Orissa in the mid 18th century. Bengal was the richest province in India. EIC started to take on administrative powers.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

But for Clive, India would have been colonised by the French. The culinary counterfactuals are quite intriguing.

Zach Thornton
Zach Thornton
2 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

Aboriginal Australians weren’t as relieved to have British masters. The notion that the British Empire was somehow exceptionally benevolent when compared with the Spanish or Belgian empires is absurd. Famines in India increased in scale and ferocity under British rule during a time when famine was practically unheard of in Britain itself. Perhaps millions more Indians died than otherwise would have due to colonial misrule of agricultural resources. We will never know. Why do we Brits feel the need to pat ourselves on the back and flip the question so that it is the Indians that should be thanking us because don’t they know how evil King Leopold was? It’s dishonest and ridiculous.

Simon Denis
Simon Denis
2 years ago

Superb article. Contrast the scrupulous ethnography of the Empire’s officials with the sweeping, ignorant, hate-filled generalisations of Olusoga and co. The key to the issue lies in two things: the left’s pretended horror of judgement, as in the word “primitive”; and its weird denial of the right of judgement to western society alone.
If an Islamic scholar had pronounced Tahiti “primitive” they wouldn’t give a monkey’s.
But the left contradicts itself more openly when it heaps praise on “primitive” societies as “more in tune with nature”. So there is a difference, then? And from the perspective of modern, industrial culture, being “in tune with nature” might very well look “primitive”, no? So why the indignation? Why the screaming hysteria?
The most insidious and toxic form of hatred is self-hatred; and the western left is full of it.

Seb Dakin
Seb Dakin
2 years ago

Thank you for a really objective and informative article.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Seb Dakin

The anti-racism industry is the craziest invention people have yet come up with.

My guess is the next logical step is to do as China does now, and assign ‘Racist Credit Scores’ to every person throughout history. Then we will have real data to work with.
Those we do not actually know much about can be inferred: White? -50 points. 1900s, -10 points, 1800s, -20 points, 1600s, -50 points. Woman, -1 point (there is no zero) man, -20 points…. and so on, and on.

Lets figure exactly just how racist those dead guys really were!

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
2 years ago

Judging people and events of the past by the sensitivities of the present is a fool’s errand. Yet here we are. What happened happened in a particular context. One cannot simply ignore that context because it doesn’t mesh with the here and now.
There seems to be a fantasy that racism and bigotry were white-created and remain exclusive to white people. That’s madness and any sane person knows it. Muslims kill each other over Sunni vs Shia, African nations have had civil wars, Asian nations have long histories of conflict, etc etc. This is revisionism at a level that makes Orwell look like an amateur.

Kathryn Richards
Kathryn Richards
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

Uighurs? Rohingya? Happening right now, but where are the voices condemning the treatment of them?
But it’s much easier to complain about the past, than it is to solve the real life problems of today.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
2 years ago

you have just highlighted the bankruptcy of the wokeist argument. These folks fixate on the past because no action is required; no action is even possible. The woke are currently busy cheering for hamas and the Palestinians, either ignorant of the reality of life for certain populations there or ignoring it.

Hector Mildew
Hector Mildew
2 years ago

Uighurs? Rohingya? Happening right now, but where are the voices condemning the treatment of them?
Absolutely. And to be fair, the BBC is good at presenting reports about the persecution of religious minorities, and quite right too. However it seems to remain strangely silent about the barbaric treatment of Christian minorities. For some reason, this doesn’t seem to fit the narrative.
https://barnabasfund.org/en/magazine/myanmar-burma/

Last edited 2 years ago by Hector Mildew
michael stanwick
michael stanwick
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

Yes, underpinned by a pernicious fallacy used in the service of an ideology – it is univariate for it eschews all complexity.
I am minded to accept the hypothesis of Eric Kaufmann that what is being forwarded is the sacralisation of particular groups and, IMO, that is grounded in a moral impulse that has no borders – either geographically nor temporally.

Peter LR
Peter LR
2 years ago

So, it amounts to writing a report with a pre-determined conclusion in mind?

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  Peter LR

Yes. Those in power ( in every sense of the word) used to pretend empathy for their own country’s poor. Now they have got bored with them as they feel they are ungrateful , they have taken up the rest of the world to care about. By doing this they absolve themselves of any personal responsibility for their ancesters ( who were likely to be those making decisions in the past) actions and shares the guilt around. A win win for them.

Stephen Rose
Stephen Rose
2 years ago

I congratulate you on an informative and detailed article, handled with objectivity.
My grandfather served with Gurkha and Indian troops and had the highest regard for them.l seem to recall him telling my father that Gurkha custom required, amputation of the little finger on the death of a parent. This was an act that disturbed Army authorities, they feared infection. But they could not prevent it, so turned a blind eye.
I can’t find any information to confirm this story. If true it would illustrate far more regard for non-white religious custom , than contemporary observers would believe.

Julian Rigg
Julian Rigg
2 years ago

It will be interesting come Remembrance Sunday. Will the rich football players and greedy Premier League still prefer to take the knee to BLM or will they do the two minutes silence for thousands upon thousands who died fighting for our freedom?
PS. I’m a veteran.

jim payne
jim payne
2 years ago

Certainly there is no lack of respect for the dead, no matter what ethnicity ref. the Great War. Monuments and Cemeteries contain all races and creeds. I visit Menin Gate regularly and always point out to schoolchildren attending, the names of those men ‘of colour’ who died fighting for the Allies.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  jim payne

Do you also point out that in all their living spaces European peoples are suffering a slow, soft genocide by a replacement colonisation which not one of them has been asked about and to which not one of them has consented?

Last edited 2 years ago by John Standing
Paul N
Paul N
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

I’m sorry, John, but people moving into the town where you live is not genocide – not even if they are a different colour than you are, however much that disturbs you.

Jon Walmsley
Jon Walmsley
2 years ago

For starters, ‘European’ is not a race any more than ‘American’ or ‘Asian’ or any other over-arching continental descriptor. For seconders, your ‘sociobiological’ explanation is part of the problem of racism, still considering white westerners in some inherent genetic way superior to all the other peoples of the earth – a master race – and if there is a more insidious racial ideology out there, I’ve not heard of it. Meanwhile, to argue there are no differences between different cultures and races, that we are all equally the same in every respect as some on the left do, is obviously as blinkered as what you’re spouting but in the opposite direction.

Neither viewpoint grasps that the differences – racial, cultural, historical etc – are what makes us one; unity not from difference but in difference and likewise difference in unity. Such a non-dualistic understanding requires the transcendence of the many boundaries that divide not just our societies but our very minds, but moving beyond such boundaries does not mean they disappear entirely – they are rather subsumed into a larger and deeper understanding of the ‘wholeness’ of all. Partisanship of any kind misses this point entirely, yet so does a blanket belief that we are all identical.

This non-dualistic understanding ultimately begins in each individual however, and is perhaps why societies at large are still riven with conflictive divisions as opposed to harmonious differences, because politicised parties, racial or ethnic groups and religious orders and sects too often emphasise their own group-based identities at the expense of the ‘other’ group-based identities to which they are either opposed, see themselves completely separate from or at the very least distinct enough from to emphasise the differences over the commonalities. Human beings often overwhelmingly prefer to feel like they belong somewhere, to some group or identity, race or creed etc, all without recognising that each compartmentalised definition of ‘who’ they are doesn’t get at ‘what’ they are – living and breathing beings!

To see yourself, your individual self, or your group self, as ‘separate’ from other selves, other groups, even the world at large, can be instantly revealed for the illusion it is when you just try to stop breathing. Go on, seriously, try it please – though don’t try too hard, you don’t want to pass out! It doesn’t work so well does it? A surprise, I know…

Holding your breath is the same as holding your self tight to yourself, literally and metaphorically; it’s a type of clinging that is rife right now in identitarian politics, whether as individuals or as groups, and it only suffocates you when you try to shut out everything that appears to be ‘outside’ of those narrow definitions. You need to breathe in oxygen, breathe in the world of the ‘outside’ and turn it ‘inside’, but equally, your breath is then reciprocally drawn up from ‘inside’ you and given up to the ‘outside’. It’s a two-way street, no two ways about it! But where is the beginning, where is the end of this cyclical process? Well, when you stop breathing I suppose! Then again, I don’t remember when I started breathing, so I’m unlikely to remember when I stop either, just like we never remember when exactly we fall asleep, but that’s a topic for another day…

To sum up: how we perceive our own selves in the world and thus our relation to others is dependent on how we breathe essentially – on how our own consciousness takes in and in turn gives out what it receives, or doesn’t. Far too many people are still caught up in trying to hold onto their own breath, thinking it is theirs alone to covet, and they only end up suffocating themselves. You have to breathe in and out, never one or the other. When we understand this, when enough people recognise this deeper truth, we will transform our selves, and in turn, transform our world. Until then, just keep breathing!

Last edited 2 years ago by Jon Walmsley
James Chater
James Chater
2 years ago
Reply to  Jon Walmsley

Nice comment.

Last edited 2 years ago by James Chater
Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
2 years ago
Reply to  Jon Walmsley

TL;DR

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Jon Walmsley

Rocking too a good rift

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Jon Walmsley

Little one, why is explaining the hard fact of European kinship offensive to you? Do you understand that the journey from absence to presence cannot exclude the natural identity, which must abide in the act of appropriation of self? The man who tries to become conscious to himself while in revolt at what he is will construct an artificial notion of self and so will inevitably become estranged from his own truth?
This is what you are commending to me. I commend you not to belong to the self-hating spirit of the left.

Last edited 2 years ago by John Standing
Harvey Johnson
Harvey Johnson
2 years ago

But this is literally racism. You’re heavily implying the superiority of the ‘European race’ (whatever that is) and then suggesting that it ‘can’t be spread to other races’, as though we hold this magical power that other races don’t – and can’t – possess.

Get a dictionary, read the definition of racism (not the CRT definition, the sane one) and this diatribe falls squarely in this bracket.

Why is it, after every well-written and thought-out post on this site, there’s some commenter spouting tribalist nonsense like this? It’s being hijacked.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Harvey Johnson

Try to understand. Populations at the continental level differ. There is no sameness in sociobiological evolution. The left is lying, and you have swallowed it wholesale. Free yourself and accept the nature of who we are.

David Fitzsimons
David Fitzsimons
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Sociobiology (a la E.O. Wilson) was discredited when I was a student in the late ’80s. Its successor – evolutionary psychology – is little better. I’m not on the left.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

In your case a right wing racist.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Why is it racist to speak the human truth? It isn’t. But you have been taught self-hatred, and so you throw your empty hate-words around. Enough. Learn the truth. Change.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
2 years ago

When people criticise the Empire they some ignore simple facts .
From the 1820s the British set up schools, colleges and unversities to train Indians. Britain starts a meritocracy, for example :-
Ardaseer Cursetjee Wadia FRS was elected to FRS in 1841 The nomination, made by Spencer Compton, Marquess of Northampton, the then President of the Society, describes him as a “gentleman well versed in the theory and practice of naval architecture and devoted to scientific pursuits.” It credits him with both the introduction of gas lighting to Bombay, as well as having “built a [sea-going] vessel of 60 tons to which he adapted a Steam Engine.” In 1855 he was elected a Justice of the Peace.[6]
Samuel Ajay crowther, an African was made bishop in 1863 and awarded a DD from Oxford iUniversity
The population of India increased from about 200M in 1870 to 400M in 1941 due to improved conditions.
Business is allowed to flourish, for example Tata and Petit Baronets Indian entrepreneur and philanthropist Dinshaw Maneckji Petit.
Indian are encouraged to pass exams and gain entry to Indian Civil Service, The Army, The Law, University( Medicine, Engineering and The law ), The Police and Railways which creates a large professional middle class. Nehru’s Father was lawyer who sent him to Harrow School.
In two World Wars men from all over the Empire volunteered to fight and were willing to die. Some fougth with such bravery that they won the VC.
Mounbatten described Kohima as The Empires Thermopylae.
In Forgotten Voices – Burma there are numerous statements by those who fought in Burma. West Africans were particularly skillful jungle fighters in Burma. The various nations which fought are included in the Chindit Memorial plus others.
Havildar Umrao Singh VC
“When I went to London to receive my VC, I had a wonderful mostache in those days . And a lot of women came up and kissed me on my moustache.” No sign of racism here !
Very few Indians fougth against the British in WW2 and very few of those captured by the Japanese changed sides.
By 1947 Indians had reached the rank of Brigadier.
It would have only taken a few percent of the Indian population to attack the British in India in 1943 to 1944 to have taken over the country. The same was in Africa. The vast majority supported Britain and many died bravely in combat. Men only follow those into combat and are prepared to die bravely because the leaders have earnt their loyalty

David Brown
David Brown
2 years ago

Except that a great deal of this CRT stuff originates not with actual black people, but with lefty white academics, who seem to enjoy nothing more than denigrating those they hate to recognise as their own people.

James Chater
James Chater
2 years ago

What? It’s like reading a species of Orwell’s ‘Newspeak’ in 1984. It doesn’t make sense.

Last edited 2 years ago by James Chater
John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

What’s your prob, James? Are you a free man or a prisoner of the left?

Andrew Raiment
Andrew Raiment
2 years ago

Of course we can have a blended history curriculum, by also including the various cultural revolutions that have taken place over the last 100 or so years, and the millions of deaths resulting from them.

Last edited 2 years ago by Andrew Raiment
arnoldattard
arnoldattard
2 years ago

The Christian Cemetary of Tripoli (LIBYA) was totally defaced, the tombs vandalised by local Muslims during the Ghedaffi regime.

Susannah Baring Tait
Susannah Baring Tait
2 years ago
Reply to  arnoldattard

Yup, I was there. I always found it ironic that Roman inscriptions in Leptis Magna were replaced with Arabic ones.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  arnoldattard

Predominantly Italian ones.
When I was last there, during Ghedaffi’s imperium, the British Commonwealth War Graves Cemetery was pristine and untouched.

Harry Potter
Harry Potter
2 years ago

As an Oriental, I am appalled that Western, especially British and American, governments let public schools educate students to hate their own country and history.
The identity politics that are so rampant among self-obsessed Americans have infiltrated the UK through a common language and the internet.
They are simply spoiled by being immersed in a safe, civilized society. In the rest of the world, hatred of different peoples and contempt for other races are commonplace.

Last edited 2 years ago by Harry Potter
Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
2 years ago

There is no such thing as the European race.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Why do you haters always come out with the same lies? Xing et al demonstrated the fact of race as genetic variation at the continental and regional level. That was in 2010, and no serious population geneticist would pretend that Europeans are not a specific relational group.
Why are you like this?

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

What exactly makes you right? Just because you think so, I guess.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley
Last edited 2 years ago by John Standing
John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

… and an absence of self-hatred.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Science isnt supporting your opinion. Belief is.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Click on the link above. Ask yourself why humanity does not gene-ma as a single blob. When you realise that your hate ideology has no answer to that question commence upon the long process of freeing your mind.

Tom Graham
Tom Graham
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Much as I hate to agree with Mark on anything. He is right and you are wrong: There is no such this as a European race and sociobiology is pseudoscience.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Tom Graham

You have been taken over by anti-European propaganda. There is now a great number of population genetic studies which demonstrate the fact of European ethnicity, in the main using FsT measurement. You are a man of Europe. You cannot be anything but a man of Europe. Grow up and face your own truth.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

I dont hate you brother, I just note your disdain for others

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Because you have been weak and accepted that, uniquely, Europeans cannot self-prefer without it meaning “hate” of everyone else, you cannot now look upon your own people and see love. You are politically ill.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Gee you assume so much. Inaccurately

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

If you are offended by facts there is something wrong with you.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Try playing the ball and not the man

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

You don’t have a ball. You are lied to about your own people and you fall over.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

You’re off it mate. You have no idea who I am or who are my people

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

Because I’m a descendant of a family starved by Churchill

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

No such thing as English….you falsely deny being Celtic Jonny

Charlie Two
Charlie Two
2 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

and there’s no such thing as ‘people of colour’, the ‘black race’, ‘african’ in any real sense of one genetically or culturally homogeneous group, or anything else which is bandied around to beat other people around the head with re race.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Totally correct

David Brown
David Brown
2 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Given that there is more genetic difference within Africa than across the whole of the rest of the world, and that Europeans are comparatively similar to one another, if there is no single European race, presumably there is no single African race, and if Europeans form, for the sake of argument, five races, Africans must form hundreds of races, at least. If you increase the number of European races, you can add a zero on to the number of African ones.

Last edited 2 years ago by David Brown
Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
2 years ago
Reply to  David Brown

Yes, I believe there is no African race. Race in humans is a concept developed over time, but particularly in European circles from the 18th Century to explain why it was OK to exploit or enslave people. This is a criminal simplification on my part but there are a lot of academic texts explaining it based on analysis of the use of the term and how it developed over time. Anti-racism is based on the premise that humans are equal and the notion of race is a tool used to oppress. To deny there is a European or African race is not to deny that racism exists.

James Chater
James Chater
2 years ago

Just accept that it was and move on?
‘De-colonise’ the tertiary curricula? Probably ‘no’. Rather, promote study of non-colonised pasts – but that brings us back to ‘Empire’ at some point!
(Maybe secondary study of British History should start at the previous 100-year point, being updated every 30 years?)

Last edited 2 years ago by James Chater
Charlie Two
Charlie Two
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

cant we promote the study of all of the facts, rather than David Olusoga’s bigoted narrowing of everything he doesnt like?

James Chater
James Chater
2 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Two

Isn’t it called Historical Controversy? You wouldn’t read just David Olusoga, though he might be a very good historian and know much about the topic.
I found the article very useful.
I would discourage teaching children about the British Empire. The topic clearly divides.

Last edited 2 years ago by James Chater
Fred Atkinstalk
Fred Atkinstalk
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

I don’t think a good historian cherry-picks to support his personal agenda (David Irving!)

There is no reason why teaching about the British Empire should be avoided, if it is done in a balaced way. If you are going to discourage teaching about that, you should certainly discourage the teaching of the history of slavery.

Fred Atkinstalk
Fred Atkinstalk
2 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Two

Olusoga is a polemicist, not an historian.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
2 years ago

Its tea time campers and I’m off to feed my sharks

Adrian Smith
Adrian Smith
2 years ago

Facts and evidence do not matter, indeed using facts and evidence to argue someone was not racist proves not only that they were racist but also that whoever is making the argument is also racist in their misguided attempt to cover up rather than expose racism.
Here endeth the Gospel according to Woke.
We clearly did not do that bad a job looking after the fallen and the survivors as the same nations have fought for / alongside us since. When there were shortages in recruits a couple of decades ago and the Army in particular were recruiting direct from prison, the opportunity to join the British military and thereby earn full citizenship after a relatively short period of service was given to Commonwealth countries. No shortage of applicants who have since distinguished themselves in their chosen service. That is also why the Army rugby team now closely resembles the Fijian national B team.

Last edited 2 years ago by Adrian Smith
Quentin Vole
Quentin Vole
2 years ago

in terms of science, technology or medicine – African cultures were, compared to European ones, obviously underdeveloped in the 1920s.
And this remains true in the 2020s. They were catching up until ~1970, I wonder why this process ended?

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago

The correctoids are trying to get the following post removed:
Evidentially, the European race is civilisationally creative in a most beautiful and precious way. It’s sociobiological – a product of our native intellect and imagination, and the particular blend of individualism and cooperativeness which attends us. It can’t be got out of us. It can’t be spread around to other races. It is a great good for all humanity.
The supposed New Original Sin of “racism” which peculiarly troubles the political left in our age is a chimaera and a pseudo-religious pathology of an emotionally damaged and/or intellectually feeble but, of course, always dictatorial mind.
Real racism, on the other hand, is uniform to all human beings and is nothing more than a negative preference for adaptive traits. Without preference there could be no evolutionary process and no living organism more advanced than a simple cell. But perhaps that’s what the hating left wants to reduce us to.

James Chater
James Chater
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

John, I think you need a cold shower – the European civilisation stuff is highly debatable and clearly subjective. Re ‘racism’, I am loathe to engage but I’ll just say, if for ‘real racism’ you mean just ‘prejudice’, then there is something in that. The best nutshell definition of ‘racism’ I’ve heard is: ‘prejudice’ + ‘power’ = racism. We can’t do much about ‘prejudice’; we can certainly do alot about power. Granted, it’s complicated.

Last edited 2 years ago by James Chater
LUKE LOZE
LUKE LOZE
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

Nope ‘prejudice’ + ‘power’ is the wokey redefinition of ‘racism’ for highly political purposes. Racism has a simple definition, if you think that people from a different ‘race’ to you are inherently inferior, ‘bad’, immoral etc then you’re a racist.

For example a significant number of Eastern Europeans are highly racist. They’re often very poor, and live in near 100% white countries, they have no ‘power’ but plenty of prejudice. They are still racists.

Last edited 2 years ago by LUKE LOZE
James Chater
James Chater
2 years ago
Reply to  LUKE LOZE

Racism has a simple definition, if you think, that people from a different ‘race’ to you are inherently inferior, ‘bad’, immoral etc then you’re a racist.’
That is taught. You would only think someone was inherently inferior, ‘bad’ etc. if you had learnt it from others etc. In so many historical examples it’s in the context of power-relations. I wouldn’t consider your East Europeans as ‘racist’ necessarily.
To naturally ‘prefer’ you own culture/’race’ etc. could be seen as ‘prejudiced’ but it’s not ‘racist’. At it’s extreme worst, it could be viewed as a kind of ‘cultural racism’, which is not a hopeless dead-end as it could change with time. (Firmly held ‘biological racism’ on the other hand is a kind of mental illness.)
Full-on active racism is wrong and destructive and needs to be challenged. Ultimately nothing can be done about prejudice/ignorance/’unconcious-bias’. It can be exposed non-judgmentally, allowing people to realise it themselves, but that’s it. (And that’s why the use of ‘racist’ by Identity radicals aka the so-called ‘woke’ is often so wrong, so offensive and self-defeating.)
By making out that so much of the human race is ‘racist’ and therefore we should just accept it is a pretty depressing conclusion to reach, I would say.
(I realise this is a bit semantical.)

Last edited 2 years ago by James Chater
LUKE LOZE
LUKE LOZE
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

Unconcious bias has been debunked so many times, it’s taken it’s place alongside Phrenology & Eugenics. There’s lots of evidence that it’s not accurate (can’t be repeated), is sown with bias, and doesn’t achieve anything either – there’s some evidence that it makes people more racist.

Racism/Tribalism/Ethnic/National/Religious conflict is a tragically large part of human history, it may be taught / cultural – and it may be innate. Historically your tribe was small, related to you and interdependent wiith you. There’s a saying along the lines of “we have the technology of Gods, the cultural of the Medieval and the brains of cavemen”.

On what ‘racism’ means, if a white homeless American man had hated President Obama because he was black, then by your definition that person can’t a racist – as he had no power over Obama, indeed the power relationship is a million fold the other way. Unless you buy into the idea that a poor white man has some sort of magical power over the US president, because of his race. Personally I’d just call the bloke a racist bigot with no power.

The problem is when people start talking about power relations, and ‘oppressed groups’ that it’s becomes logically flawed, divisive and increases racism – this is of course the aim of those pushing it. The left are hoping for idiotically for some sort of glorious breakdown and rebuilding from it, they are being played by the wealthy and powerful, people who are happy to sow discord amongst the bottom 99.99% if it means they can hold onto their power.

What we should being doing constantly is talking about the massive similarity between all people in the world. Genetically we’re all exceptionally similar compared to most other mammals, including other Great Apes.

Fred Atkinstalk
Fred Atkinstalk
2 years ago
Reply to  LUKE LOZE

Genetically we may be exceptionally similar to the great apes, but I wouldn’t want to live next door to one

hayden eastwood
hayden eastwood
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

The trouble with the idea of “power disparities” is that it ends up excusing racism for two reasons.
First, it depends on someone deciding which groups do and don’t have the power to be racist, itself only possible with great power.
Second, in order to make racism work by this conception, its adherents are forced to attribute to individuals properties of their group.
I saw the above two evils play out quite recently when an Oxford university student asserted to me that Blade Nzimande’s daughter should absolutely be admitted to Oxford on the basis of her race, despite the fact that she enjoyed ANC privilege.
My own position was that Mr Nzimande, as leader of the South African Communist Party, had destroyed his country’s education system, had garnered huge political privilege and personal wealth, and therefore had no business riding a victim card to get his daughter educated, particularly as his own policies had destroyed his own daughter’s educational prospects in South Africa.
But according to my Oxford interlocutor, the only thing we had to look at was the colour of his daughter’s skin, because that, in and of itself, was sufficient to determine her merit. And the fact that her place at Oxford had excluded someone from a township who had lost an education by virtue of her father’s policies, was seemingly of no significance to the privileged white student who felt the need to defend the victim status of a political oligarch.

Charlie Two
Charlie Two
2 years ago
Reply to  LUKE LOZE

they are. they are also victims. of poverty, lack of resources, desperation, and deprivation. its been the sum of human existence throughout recorded, and presumably, pre history. the sad thing about the wokist agenda now is that those driving it lack no resource and live in an environment where any lack of resource doesnt mean death or the need for competition to the death. i’d also agree with your definition of racism. the ‘+power@ bit is just a means of ensuring its only white, western, and male that can be accused of racism; a trick of far left academia.

LUKE LOZE
LUKE LOZE
2 years ago
Reply to  LUKE LOZE

Yes, but only in the sense that there’s no objective moral obligation to do anything – the argument is nihilistic.

The insistence that only certain groups apply these standards is morally wrong, it’s what’s so pathetic about the woke world.

Harvey Johnson
Harvey Johnson
2 years ago
Reply to  LUKE LOZE

Stop digging.
Mixed-race couplings aren’t anywhere near as widespread as you seem to think they are. And they’re least prevalent among the white cohort – both in the UK and USA.
According to a 2018 cohabitation census, of circa.15 million households in the UK where there is a cohabiting relationship, 13.2 million (over 88%) are white-only, 213,000 are black-only (1.4%), 805,000 are Asian-only (5.3%), and about 580,000 are mixed white-other (3.8%). Taking into account the fact that there are 108,000 mixed black cohabiting couples, this means you have around a 33% chance to be in a multiracial white-black relationship as a black Briton, compared to a ~4.1% chance as the average white Brit. British Asians, similarly, have a 25% chance of being in a mixed-race marriage.
The US data paints a similar picture. Among all newlyweds in a 2012 Pew poll, 9.4% of whites, 17.1% of blacks, 25.7% of Hispanics and 27.7% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different to their own.
So don’t worry, you can rest your paranoid head easy tonight.
“Command to die out”.. give me strength.

Last edited 2 years ago by Harvey Johnson
John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

What is subjective about the European creative genius? Isn’t there enough evidence for it all around you?

James Chater
James Chater
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Of course. You & me as Europeans might think that. That’s fine. But the implication that other civilisations are inferior and have nothing to offer is blinkered. Europe has been viewed by other civilisations as inferior. Arab & Chinese, for example.
Can we leave it at that? With respect.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

If you really think that the civilisations generated by other races are equal to our civilisation, produce the evidence. If you don’t have evidence, then accept that you are a prisoner of a self-destructive ideology and free yourself. Live by the truth.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Incidentally, James, this comparison was addressed by Charles Murray in his mighty tome Human Accomplishment. He would not agree with your equalitarianism.

Last edited 2 years ago by John Standing
LUKE LOZE
LUKE LOZE
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

It really depends what you mean by civilisation. Personally I’m of a view that the univeralist, humanist englightenment ideas than came from the West are the best. They explain our historical power and success, they also explain why we did things like end slavery, promote democracy and came to despise racism, homophobia etc. Western Liberal democracies are the greatest civilisations, because we’ve ended up not racist, sexist, homophobic etc.

On the otherhand the horrors of post modernism is also very much a white western male invention.

John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  LUKE LOZE

Luke you are a small child of systemic liberal thinking. The measure of human greatness is not neo-Marxism. Grow. Up. Read Heidegger, or something.

Harvey Johnson
Harvey Johnson
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

Do you truly believe there is only one European civilisation and only one European race?
What is it for you that unites the Indo-Eurasian cultures, the Slavic, the Norse Germanic, the Anglo-Frisian, Greek, the Uralic, and Baltic? Other than a mere quirk of geography, a line drawn arbitrarily in the 9th century during the Carolingian Renaissance? There must be something.
And what makes you so sure European civilisation is superior? By what objective measures?
We get our social contract – the ‘Mandate from Heaven’ – from Chinese Confucianism, our classical architecture from Eurasian Mesopotamian cultures, our mathematics from the Babylonians, empiricism from the Vaisheshika school of Hindu philosophy, the roots of written language from the Phoenicians, the very basis of the Abrahamic faiths from Indo-Iranian Zoroastrianism. I could go on – I haven’t even brushed the surface of the Middle Ages, and the litany of breakthroughs in science, medicine, and astronomy that came about in Al-Andalus, nor the role China played in advancing all kinds of technology.
This isn’t to downplay Europe’s role in creating its own distinct civilisations and way of life – which, clearly, is a great one. It’s just to provide some much-needed balance to your ridiculous screed.
You’re projecting blinkers onto everyone else when, in fact, it is you who is blinded by hatred.

Last edited 2 years ago by Harvey Johnson
John Standing
John Standing
2 years ago
Reply to  Harvey Johnson

What we have created until now is what is known today as Western Civilisation. It had its roots in the Greeks and it has travelled through many manifestations. One of the greatest contributors is the (native) British people. If you think Indian philosophy or ancient Han Chinese inventiveness surpass it, that’s up to you. It would be a tough argument to make, however.
And, little one, cut the hate accusations. I am an English nationalist, that is to say I am an ethnic nationalist of English descent. My politics are the only politics not grounded in contempt for the English today. Don’t assume you know zip about the nature and morality of ethnic nationalism. You don’t but I am always happy to educate you if you wish.

LUKE LOZE
LUKE LOZE
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

Indeed for much of human history most of Europe outside of the Med area was pretty backwards. I do not consider my ancient ancestors to have been genetically inferior to for example the Egyptian or the Arabs – yet they often had relatively advanced civilizations and cultures compare to ‘us’.

The hugely important thing is culture, whether you’re talking about the relative historical success of some countries – or the modern success of some groups.

David Brown
David Brown
2 years ago
Reply to  James Chater

The “prejudice + power = racism” equation is what got us into this mess in the first place. Those quoting it assume, firstly, that anyone white has power, and anyone non-white has not, which is attractive to those on the left, but, when you think about it, patently nonsense.
Even if you subscribe to the Post-Modernist view that everything is based on power relationships, which I do not, the question of who wields the power in any given relationship is often either far from simple, or the opposite of what is expected. A South Asian shopkeeper declines to serve a white customer as long as there are South Asians coming through the door? A black bobby stops a white tearaway in the street?
The first, which a friend complained to me many years ago had happened to her in Southall, looks like racism to me, except that to the “woke” crowd it cannot be, as the Asian shopkeeper has no power, not even the power to refuse to serve a white customer. Of course, he has, but the customer also has the power to put the shopping on the floor and walk out.
The second looks to me like someone doing his job, but if it were the other way round, it would easily be portrayed as a sign of police racism. It would be accepted that a white copper has power, but it offends CRT principles to concede that a black constable has it too.

Last edited 2 years ago by David Brown
James Chater
James Chater
2 years ago
Reply to  David Brown

Yes, of course, it’s clear, using the equation, the Asian shopkeeper has ‘power’ and is preferring other Asians, so yes, this an instance of racism against the white person.
(I experienced that very thing in an South Asian restaurant in Amsterdam a couple of years ago. Not nice.)
We don’t know what either police officer’s views on other races are. We don’t know how many times the white and black tearaways, or their mates, have been stopped before. But let’s assume the police officers are both decent, reasonable people and neither tearaway has been stopped dozens of times before, then of course it cannot be construed as racism, either way.
These are nice neat ‘philosophical’ thought experiments based on real life examples. But the bigger, more pertinent issue is the massive historical legacy left by ‘Empire’ etc. Personally, I think it would be useful if we looked away from ‘Empire’ a bit more, as its study continues to keep resentment well and truly alive. Acknowledgement of past wrongs together with highlighting progress.

hayden eastwood
hayden eastwood
2 years ago
Reply to  John Standing

The idea of biological superiority is, by the old, original definition, racism (ie before it was corrupted by the Left into “power disparities” to excuse their own racism).
More important than that, your ideas don’t explain why Europe was a backwater until 1600, and ascendent only thereafter versus China, for example. Evolution of biology does not occur on the timescale you need it to for “sociobiology” to exist in Europeans more than it does in anyone else.